Abigail Dove and Janet Strain

00:04 My name is Abigail Dove. I'm 30 years old. Today is Saturday, May 22nd, 2021 and I'm in Baltimore, Maryland and my conversation partner. Today is Janet strain my mother and I

00:26 Requested this storycorps recording, as a Mother's Day present to do with my mother because I recently became a mother this year in June and I wanted to have this conversation to talk to my mother about motherhood. Normally. I would give her panties as a Mother's Day present. But due to the covid-19 pandemic is currently living in rural Pennsylvania and cannot accept the delivery of pennies. So I thought that this would be a very special way to record in our account, our experience together on motherhood. And then hopefully, when my daughter's older for her, to listen to this, and be a part of it as well.

01:12 And that makes me Janet strain. I'm 69 years old and today is still Saturday, May 22nd, 2021. I am in Equinox Pennsylvania, which is extremely rural down to York Road. And the name of my conversation partner is Abigail strained of and she is my daughter.

01:40 So, a little bit of background, I guess I am getting my PhD in developmental biology this year. I should be graduating. And first I wanted to kind of mention one thing about motherhood that is really fascinating to me.

01:59 Is that when you were pregnant with me, Mom, when I was in utero, all of my eggs were already formed inside of me. And one of those eggs for Charlotte's, my daughter. So I think it's incredibly fascinating that it's not, you not only carried me, but you carried half of Charlotte and how this solidifies and continues the connection of motherhood over Generations.

02:27 Many many generations. Yes, but I wanted to ask you first. No hearing about my experiences during pregnancy and motherhood so far. What were some of the biggest differences that you've noticed between your experience and mine?

02:45 Well, I certainly was never pregnant during the pandemic. Thank heavens when I was thinking about the answer to this question. I actually went back to what I know about. My mother's experience has been pregnant. I think that I was sort of the beginning of what's considered now to be more modern mother. My mother was knocked out to Scopolamine when she was delivering her children. She smoked and she drank alcohol during her pregnancy, although she was never a heavy drinker, but she was also unusual for her time in that she really advocated for the fact that she breastfed me and that was very unusual. Bottles were considered sterile and a much better way to feed your child healthy and turned out. She was right. And she did the very best that you

03:45 For me and not, I remember even as a child when I knew about that, that made me proud of her. And so, when I was pregnant with you, I didn't smoke and I didn't bring the biggest thing I've ever given up in my life.

04:07 And I did breastfeed you as much as I possibly could. I work full-time as an Interventional cardiologist. I was on call twenty-four hours a day, 7 days, a week often, but I did manage to breastfeed you and your brother for six months each and in terms of differences, breastfeeding has come Millenia into the future. When I breastfed, your brother. We had manual breast pumps, which was this to decided to device and you just plunge yourself in and out. Individually on each breast. I must have spent half my life pumping myself.

04:50 When I was after I had you I went back to work and essentially took and Industrial Hospital strength, breast pump and was able to milk both sides at the same time and sit at my desk and move cuz I really did feel like a cow, but that's really one of the biggest differences. You just got one of these, extremely impressive, breast pumps. It fits in your bra with no tubes or wires you control it with your cell phone and you can pump anywhere anytime and nobody would even know cuz it doesn't make any noise. Yeah, and it's a remarkable thing.

05:38 But I think we had the biggest.

05:41 I think one of the biggest differences between your experience in mine is the experience of being pregnant during a pandemic and delivering a child during the pandemic and I think you should get a chance to talk about some of those experiences. Yeah, I mean first off, I think because of the pandemic I always was going to put a strong emphasis on breastfeeding. That was always something that was important to me and something I wanted to do for around, you know, probably 6 months maybe a year. But I think with covid come around, I want to do everything that I can to protect my daughter and, you know, I have been vaccinated and I think it's incredibly important to keep back to keep breastfeeding until she has an opportunity to get back to Native, but she's not able to yet. So, you know, she's only 11 months.

06:41 Only protection that she has. I'm going to be interesting at her one-year checkup. We're actually going to have her get tested for her covid, antibody levels. To see sort of how effective this is working at How old if the breastfeeding is helping her, get antibodies, but it's something that even if it's not detectable, I would probably keep doing this until she's asking, it is because you are the mother. I want to do everything I can to keep her safe.

07:14 In a clinical trial. If you could write a, she's she's on a waiting list for the clinical trials for the moderna vaccine right now, but the list is,

07:27 Has over 3,500 people and they're only the updated email that I get as their only enrolling 5 family the week. So, you know, it looks very unlikely that she'll be in these clinical trials, but hopefully what they're saying now, is that maybe by the end of the year?

07:46 But I would say, you know, covid has really changed my experience with the whole with the whole pregnancy. At least. You know, I can see my daughter before covid was a thing, you know, back in September before the pandemic and she was born kind of right in the middle of it and June.

08:08 And you know, it really that last trimester in pregnancy was, you know, somewhat traumatizing an experience. I know how baby showers got canceled and it was a time that you have a credit for your baby shower. It was that last trimester was supposed to be a time that was filled with joy and celebration and Gathering. And it was really shadowed by isolation and fear. You. No fear of getting covid and its effect on me and, you know, my daughter in utero and it was a novel back. Then in the beginning. It was a novel coronavirus and there was evidence in there have been other viruses like zika that are known to cross the placental barrier. And

09:04 You know, I had no idea of getting covid. Could, you know, could have heard her and I did have a potential covid scare early on. And I was probably one of the first people. First people that I know Dad actually got a covid test because I had the, I had a lot of the symptoms. Thankfully, I was negative, but also part of me was hoping I had it so that I could have given her antibodies early on in utero to it. Was this really strange fear of hoping I didn't have it. So I didn't get her sick or I didn't get sick, but also hoping I had it so I can give her antibodies early on.

09:39 I'd enjoy that clinical trial where they tested you, you know, twice a week when yeah. Yeah, thankfully my phone talking. So I'm getting my PhD they were having a surveillance study and we were getting tested twice a week as well as antibody tests. So I was able to kind of know throughout was texting was a little more comment that I never had covid. Still haven't had to go to before I got the vaccine.

10:18 Now even the the labor and delivery hearing on the news about covid and wondering about the labor and delivery process. I was getting terrified that you know, my husband John wasn't going to be allowed or he got he got kicked out of my prenatal. Appointments, at some point. He wasn't allowed to come with me anymore. But the Big Steer was about Partners, not being allowed in the delivery room and I was watching the news every day and I heard the stories about in New York City where you know, it wasn't huge hotspot and they were not allowing Partners in the delivery room. And I was, you know, why it did that a Columbia and it caused a tremendous backlash. There were petitions to the governor change.org had a big petition.

11:18 Traditions, most people thought that it was a terrible decision to exclude the Cardinals from the deliveries and make the make Mother's labor alone. If I couldn't think of anything more cruel, as a first time mother or not, knowing what to expect in there. And not having having anyone with you. It was, you know, triggered a lot of anxiety for me and a lot of fear as well as you know, the guidelines or when I was I'm going to deliver was, if I did test positive for covid, they were going to separate me from Charlotte immediately upon person. I had watched and read all of these documentaries about how important the skin-to-skin contact was initially, you know, right after birth. And I was wondering whether or not I was going to have to go against the medical advice.

12:18 If I tested positive and

12:22 And, you know, be with her and risk exposing her and getting her sick and not knowing what the implications were if she got covid early on or if I should know, give up that, skin-to-skin contact, not see her, but we got lucky. You got lucky. We got a very lucky. John was there, everyone was safe and healthy and we weren't allowed any visitors in the hospital but looking back on it that might have been kind of a nice thing. You know, it was just time for time for our little family, to bond and baby, how I would do it again. If we were to have another child. So, but even though it was fraud, he had to accompany you to the delivery and he was not allowed to leave except to go to the lobby to pick up delivered food. And if you left, he wasn't going to be allowed back in. Yeah, which did pose a big problem cuz you know, one night after the gift shops are closed.

13:22 Had this horrible headache. I mean, he couldn't sleep and couldn't do anything. And the nurses wouldn't allow him any Tylenol, or any sort of medication from their Pharmacy, because he wasn't a patient. And I wasn't allowed to pack anything cuz I wasn't allowed to take any prescription, any medications that weren't given to me by the hospital. So you was, you know, suffering and pain and couldn't even couldn't even find Tylenol for himself.

13:54 But they did make some really lovely changes in their protocols to make it as positive experience is possible for you, you know, you should tell about the nurses and I mean, all of the nurses were great and I think they were extra support of knowing kind of what we were new mothers and we're going through at that time. I remember one thing that was a big decision, was the first fast and how that was supposed to be thing. They would like to do the first bath in the nursery, but the nursery was close to parents because of covid, and we weren't allowed to go into the nursery, and they had offered us doing the bath in the room, but the

14:43 Because she would get so cold. They said, I had to do skin to skin contact with her for a few hours and it was in the middle of the night and she was I think sleeping, I think at that point. So we didn't really we were going to do it cuz we wanted to be part of that first bath, but then when the time came, it was just we were so exhausted and the nurse has made this, you know, great accommodation. They took my cell phone with me. I gave them the passcode to get into my phone and they recorded the first bass. So they gave us some instructions and then we had it documented. Yeah, that was really special and they really went above and beyond to help us as much as we could. If I got to watch yes.

15:34 And we got to sleep. So that was also a really nice to

15:39 But there were some good things about being pregnant and having Charlotte during covid-19 testing close and you had to stay home. I think it was really lovely that you and John, and then when Charlotte came Charlotte, were able to spend a lot of really quality time together, because there was nowhere else to go and you didn't have to leave home to go to work. Yeah. I mean we got so much extra time with her I think in those Early times when it's really crucial that we wouldn't have been able to get if it wasn't as if we were working full-time and we would have had to put her in you. No daycare or you know, how childcare a lot earlier on too, but we got to we got to experience those thrilling moment. So that was really

16:26 Really nice and my favorite thing about covid. I have to say is FaceTime and secondarily zoom. It is I never really used it before, I didn't know, but it's giving me almost the ability to live next door to you. Even from rural, Pennsylvania. I don't know. I think I must have trained you very well, because we do FaceTime very frequently. We get to see you and Charlotte and the puppies. And John want to really regular basis to the point where even at 11 months old. She seems to recognize who we are on the screen and, you know, she sorta waves to us and I would call that a wave.

17:15 Been excited way. If it's me and it's it's really been a boon to, I think.

17:25 Increased personal relationships between families and friends and you know, to be a part of the nuclear family even from a distance. It's really been just amazing maze.

17:38 When I get to see how you guys interact with her and watch her grow up, it's just wonderful.

17:46 So we can think it's time for that. Yeah. I mean I think you know, being able to experience everything virtually we got to you know, we just had a a baby shower for my brother and sister-in-law who are having their first kid in June. Also the June of this year. So people were able to come in from all over and be a part of that. So that was really special, but I think one of

18:20 You can't zoom zoom and FaceTime is great. But those those family connections are in person are just so important to and I think one of the most dramatic moments in our relationship as a mother and daughter, was the moment that I saw you for the first time after becoming a mother when you came to visit, when I think Charlotte was six days old and, you know, you came in, I'll probably remember this vividly and I think I will for the rest of my life. How and why? You no get. Choked up every time I talk about it, but, you know, you came in and of course, you know, the first thing you did was you wash your hands because we, you know, we had to be safe. But then after that, I remember you hugging you right in front of the kitchen sink and it was the most intense hug that we have ever had.

19:20 And it just was this huge sense of relief for me. I think, you know, just having you there and knowing that I got through it, you know, and just being with you. It's so hard to describe but it was just one of the most intense Hogs and the intense feelings I've ever had. And to this day, it still brings me to tears, thinking about it. And how special that moment was very happy to see us because we didn't bring covid with us from the Wilds of Pennsylvania, which was a good thing too, cuz it was impossible to get tested up here. So we really didn't know for sure.

20:06 Course, I haven't seen anything or anybody other than the bear, that attacked our compost, still being, you know, exposed to the hospital with. A lot of, you know, they had a covid patients are we didn't know what we were potentially bringing to you guys and you guys are older and more risk than us. So we were concerned too about having you over, it was obviously the right thing to do and we have to see the baby.

20:51 So is there anything that you regret or wish you would done differently and Parenthood? But I have to say watching you be a parent, makes me reflect on things that I did as a parent that are different and

21:12 We do a lot of FaceTiming while you feed Charlotte dinner. So I know what? Charlotte eats and I watch her eat it. And it's it's amazing to me when I was in mother. If you were a good mother. You said your baby baby food. He went to the store and you bought the very best baby food in little jars and you warmed it up and you made sure. It wasn't too hot to burn them. But you fed them this horrible looking and smelling stuff out of a jar and it's amazing to me that it never occurred to me that I could just

21:48 Cook the same food for her for you, that we cooked for ourselves may be in a slightly different way and mash it up and feed it to you. You know, much more wholesome Lee but I had never considered that. And yeah, you never said, Charlotte a baby food yet and she eats the most amazing things. You came to visit us not too long ago. So she was certainly less than 10 months old, and she had dragon fruit and celery root. This is what she loved you. And I went into the woods and dug up ramps, and parboiled the ramps and she ate ramps, just playing ramps on her tray and bed them to herself. It's just, it's amazing. What you can get them to eat, what they can enjoy, and how good it can be for them to eat real food that has color and flavor and paste. Even if it isn't allowed to have salt.

22:48 I don't know. What you going to do with the birthday cake. It's going to just like blow her mind. Is going to be the first sugar. She's ever had, and she'll be a person after that. I'm going to make her healthy birthday cake. Don't worry, probably. And then the other thing I would say as a regret is, I was a very hard-working woman. I had a very high-pressure job and I work a lot of hours that we're fairly long way from home. And so, I missed out on a lot of things.

23:26 I could do that for a couple of reasons, the most important was that I had your father as a backup and he was always there to take care of you and be responsible for you and put my mind at rest. So that I knew that everything was okay at home and I could go to work and take care of other people.

23:47 Are you also have a marvelous marvelous babysitters? And caregivers people who to this day, consider you and your brother to be there, real children and part of their real families. So and I consider them my second mothers. That's true. Why do I do regret a lot of the other school plays of the after-school activities. That you know, I wasn't able to be there to witness but

24:21 That's what I think is that. But I think that a you probably saved yourself from a lot of horrible, you know, Orchestra boresighter, recitals. We went to those so maybe you can save yourself from that. But, you know, I was able to, you know, I think seeing how hard-working you were and you know how Highly Educated you are and respected in this male-dominated. Workforce was an inspiration. And you serve what is a really strong role model that I could achieve anything and there were really No Boundaries? If, you know, you always told me don't be a doctor, but I always felt that I, I couldn't be if I wanted to. And if I tried harder, if I didn't pass out at any instance, of any medical procedure, I probably could be if I wanted to do. Remember, right before you graduate. I told you, I didn't, he was a great idea, but

25:21 If you could, if you want to be a doctor, your brother know, definitely. But I just decided to go the PHD doctor route instead of the empty. So you can still call me one hopefully soon. Right? And they're paying you to go to school as opposed to the other way around. So, exactly. See, I think that I know you sometimes but I see it as a big positive and I love going to work with you. I love take your child to work day and seeing you working and have, you know, I sure you loved parading around 2 and all of the nurses and the cath lab staff seeing me and chatting with me. And, you know, I just thought it was the coolest thing going to work with you on those when I was good.

26:13 Yeah, and it was, you know, it was good to, you know, I had, you know, a really strong connection and relationship with my father to being at home and, you know, kind of got rid of some of those gender stereotype roles that.

26:29 People have grown up grown up with and it instills for me and my family and our relationship. I want Charlotte to have a strong relationship with her father, and that close connection that I have with my father. And I'm sure a lot of it was due to the fact that he stay home with us and I was around him all the time.

26:50 Just very good to you.

26:57 So, as a mother now, what are you most looking forward to?

27:03 I think.

27:05 You know, experiencing Charlotte's development. Already has been a great joy and it's one of the best things, you know, 11 months, already. She's changed so much and looking at her different baby, you know, her baby photos and her videos from when she was just born to. Now, she's a completely different person. And you know what she can do now? And she's just, she's so close to walking and seeing her try and trying to stand up on her own. It's just the most exciting thing and sharing her, giggle, and laugh with excitement. It just melts my heart and I couldn't have a bigger smile on my face when I hear her smile. And I just love enjoying those moments with her, but some of the things that I'm really looking forward to is getting to recapitulate. Some of my favorite things from childhood that I did with you. You know, I have really Vivid memories.

28:05 Swinging with you in Pennsylvania on our that swing set on the apple tree and you know the song that you sang and you know, adapting or Charlotte's name and so I can sing it to her one day. Well, I've already started actually, we have our, a little swing set on our front, small tiny Baltimore, front porch. But, you know, making, you know, the blueberry cornmeal pancakes with her and that we did. And I always got a pancake with the letter, A, for my initial and making see pancakes. Now. We just started that the last time we came to visit you and it was great and that's, you know, everything that I want.

28:51 Lots of the country houses here for us there. He's waiting for you.

28:59 Is it good there? I love watching. You do things with Charlotte that are the same that we did with you in the bubble bear that we got. So you can blow bubbles for her and without getting your fingers sticky.

29:24 Using, you know, words that we used calling a pacifier, a puffy when your brother was very little, we took him to a small Zoo someplace and you can come up close to an elephant. And so, he started to poke the elephant in the eye, and he used to call elephant's ablest. And so, the deal in our family was no poke able to I and we use that on you too. You know what you did when you just something, we didn't want you to do. It was no poke able to eye. And now it mean, when Charlotte's, he's a picture of an elephant, you call it enable up. And I went, we went to the zoo and she saw an elephant. We told her, she didn't get that close, but we told her no, poke able I and, you know, just

30:15 This small little things makes so much difference and just bring everybody closer and make everybody feel a part of the family. And I think that's the most marvelous thing. So, so what are, what are you looking for to go? Before I tell you that, I wanted to say that I want to say and all this is going to make me break out that I could not possibly be prouder of you than I am. I think you are just the most marvelous, young woman. I think you're a wonderful scientists and I think you are a spectacular mother and you make me so proud and give me hope that I did a pretty good job because you really turned out. Well, no matter what I said you and I just want you to know that

31:15 What? I'm looking forward to is really more of the same. It couldn't. It's hard to believe, it could get any better. And just as our friend Rosemary said, at your brother's shower, the other day when she had her second grandchild. She didn't believe she could love anybody as much as she had. Loved her first grandchild and yet now she's got a second and your heart just expands. So I'm really looking forward to your brother's new addition to the family and my second grandchild and also the ability. I hope that we can watch the two of them.

31:58 His child and your child grow up together and be a part of a big and loving family, and just have a marvelous time together.

32:07 That sounds wonderful.