Ahmad Khalid Noori and Lyla Kohistany

[00:08] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: Hi, I'm Lila Kowastani. I am 44 years old. Today is Saturday, the 23 September 2023. I'm in Alexandria, Virginia, and the name of my interview partner is Ahmed Khalid Nouriyah. And our relationship is. We are colleagues and friends. Nouri, over to you.

[00:36] LYLA KOHISTANY: Yes. Hi, I'm Khaled Noori and I'm 27 years old. Today's date is September 23, 2023. I live in Alexandria, Virginia. Name of interviewer is Laila Kohistani, as I call her. Lila. John. And my relationship to the interviewer? We are teammates and we're friends.

[01:09] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: So, nori, I would love to talk about our shared experiences as Afghans. Having served in the afghan war, I came to the US as a refugee of the soviet war in 1982. But my father was a soldier in the afghan army. And so when the afghan government collapsed in August 2021, you and so many of our brave brothers and sisters who served in the afghan army thankfully made their way to the United States, found safety here, found refuge here, and you're rebuilding your life here now in this foreign country. Since we both also served in the military, you and the afghan military, and me in the US Navy, I'd like to start off by asking you what were some of the reasons that you joined the military?

[02:11] LYLA KOHISTANY: Thank you so much, Lila. John. So, yes, I believe being born and raised in a country like Afghanistan, where we have had faced so many big events in our recent history, starting from envision of Afghanistan by Soviet Union and also the rise of terrorism in Afghanistan, there is so many reasons for us. But personally, for me, since my father had served in our family, he served in the military, and unfortunately, he was assassinated in 2011 in the north Afghanistan. That I think was one of the great. The big reasons why I chose to join military. Because since childhood, I was always thinking of what could take a man or a woman to accept the challenges, to accept the risks, the risks that the individual would accept. And what would be the cause and purpose behind that? A man or a woman would choose to join military and serve his or her nation. I think that was the biggest. The biggest reason that prompted me to join military, to follow his path, and also to get my answer. What was that great cause and purpose? And then I believe I find it out, the great cause and purpose was for an individual to join military, to get well trained and well equipped to defend and protect the people that cannot defend and protect themselves. And then I find out that that great cause and purpose work a man or a woman's life. That's how I joined military. And that's how my journey starts with. With military.

[04:53] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: How did you tell your family and friends that you were joining the military as a child of someone who had served? And you talked about your father, God rest his soul, having been assassinated. I can imagine that was a difficult conversation. Were there any conversations that stood out during that time when you made the decision to finally tell the people that you love that you were joining?

[05:22] LYLA KOHISTANY: Surely. Yes, I can remember. I think losing my father was not only as a father, but as a man in the family, but as a leader who established this family and protected this family. With so many events that happened in Afghanistan or his people, it was hard for my family to again accept that challenge and that risk to lose a son from the same family. I remember that the first time I ever been serious to choose and join military. I discussed this with my mom and I went to her. I know that she had tough time hearing again about military and military service, but since this was my serious decision that I had made, I have to talk with her and convince her. So I started to say that, mom, I did some research and since almost the time that I have lost my father, I want to join military. She was like, son, no, it's too hard for me to again accept that I'm going to lose my son. And she was like, you know what? If you choose to join military and serve, because I know that in a country like Afghanistan, I'm going to lose you. I'm gonna throw myself from a high building. It was so hard for me as a son, as a human that okay, yes. My mom have been through a lot and these serious events, but what would happen if I don't join military? Would I find that great cause and purpose that my father sacrificed himself? Then I started to really talk about those values that my father had filed for. And I said, mom, this is my serious choice. And I don't think it would convince me that you would say that I'm gonna throw myself from somewhere because I really want this. This is my journey, this is my future, and I really want to go and serve. So she did knew that I'm serious about it. There is nothing that could stop me from joining military and service. She said, I think you're not going to give up. And all I could do is praying for you as a muslim, as a mom, that God protect you. But yeah, it was pretty tough conversation between me and my mom that I can feel it. I still can feel that moment. But Lilo John talking about all of these, these events, let me ask you a question that how did you tell your family and friends that you were joining the military? And are there any conversations that stand out from that time for you?

[09:13] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: I feel like our journeys paralleled each other. Nurijan, because my mother was not very happy that I was joining the military either. My father, as I mentioned, had already served. That was tough for her to be married to a soldier. And then my brother ended up joining the US Navy. And very long story short, my brother saved me from an arranged marriage when I was twelve years old. With the help of the US Navy, like his commander and the rest of his leadership, really helped him to have the confidence and the resources and support to be able to take care of me and my mom so that I didn't have to go back to Afghanistan and be married off. So from my perspective, at the age of twelve, I started thinking about, well, the Navy is amazing. Look at what it just did for our family. And I really wanted to join the navy as well. I wanted to do what my brother was doing. And in our culture and afghan culture, having a son who's in the military is okay. Having a daughter who's in the military is not as okay. And so I think my mom did struggle with it a little bit. But ultimately, it was my brother that helped convince her that it was a great path for me to take, that it was a great way for us as a family to give back to this country that had adopted us, this nation that had welcomed us as refugees. And so she, she finally said yes. And of course, my brother helped me with the entire process of joining the military. The rest of my family never accepted it. My aunts, my uncles, many of my cousins, I think they really struggled with the idea that I had made this decision to really embrace my american identity so fully and enjoy the us military. And of course, it was very hard to be in the us military as an Afghan after the attacks of September 11, because the us military was going into Afghanistan to liberate the country from the Taliban. But it still meant that this new home of ours was ultimately also causing harm to parts of Afghanistan. It was a very difficult time for me, for my identity, but ultimately, I didn't care what the rest of my family wanted. What I knew was that I wanted to join the military just like you. I knew that that was a purpose, that it was a calling. And I'm very, very proud of the fact that I did it. And more than anything else, it allowed me to really embrace this new identity of mine and to be able to take care of my family.

[12:30] LYLA KOHISTANY: The great choice.

[12:32] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: I agree with your choice as well. So, Nuri John, let's talk a little bit about the war in Afghanistan. You obviously, having been born there, me having been born there, but for me, being raised in the US, you were raised in your entirety in Afghanistan, and you never left Afghanistan outside of going to India for your military academy and then, of course, being evacuated here. You always wanted to be in Afghanistan. You wanted to serve in Afghanistan. Tell us a little bit about where you served.

[13:09] LYLA KOHISTANY: So in every conversation, Laila John, when people ask about Afghanistan with very proud, I can say that it's a very beautiful country. And I had the privilege and honor to serve in different parts of Afghanistan, taking from mountainous provinces in the north to the provinces that have huge deserts in the west and south and also the forests of east Afghanistan. I had the privilege as the missions required as Afghanistan in some of the very serious operations after 2016 that we really have been, after taking responsibility from us and international forces in Afghanistan. It was really a busy time for us, for afghan forces to be on the ground everywhere, almost in Afghanistan. I had the proud and privilege to be in most parts of the country as the special operation missions had required us and me. So with that, when it comes to the deployment. Lailo Zhang, where did you serve during the war? I know that you have been deployed to Afghanistan many times. I want to just know, how did it feel going back to a country where you lived long time ago, going back to Afghanistan, how you were feeling on your deployments?

[15:14] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: I so agree with you about the beauty of the country. Nurijan. I remember my very first deployment, which was in 2005, and it was at in Bagram air base. And I was there still in the navy. I was a navy intelligence officer. I was a lieutenant junior grade, which is a very junior officer in the navy. And I remember flying in to Bagram and just being blown away by the mountains of the Hindu Kush and thinking if there wasn't a war in this country, people from all over the world would come here because it's so beautiful. And that was my first deployment. It was about six months long. It was a counterterrorism deployment. So I got to work with amazing people from the us special operations community, and I absolutely loved it. And I wanted to keep deploying to Afghanistan. I wanted to keep working on the Afghanistan problem set. But unfortunately, the navy wanted me to go back out to sea. And so I thought it was time for the navy and I to break up. And so I decided to leave the navy in 2007, and I ended up joining the Defense intelligence Agency just so that I could keep working on Afghanistan. And so I had an opportunity to go back as a civilian in 2011, and that was based out of Kabul, and that was more focused on counterinsurgency type of work as an advisor. And then I spent an entire year from June of 2013 to June of 2014, also in Kabul, as a civilian advisor to the special operations Joint Task force into the NATO special Operations headquarters that was there. And it was a very difficult time. During that last deployment, we were getting ready to, as a country, leave Afghanistan. In large part, our mission was changing. We were, as you talked about, transitioning more and more to the afghan military. So it was a hard deployment, that last deployment, because I was scared for the future of Afghanistan, frankly. But I was also very hopeful for the future of Afghanistan, knowing that we had been there since 2001. We had been training these forces. And so my hope was that the country really would be able to stand on its own. It was a very bittersweet time, but being there as an Afghan and as an American, it was so surreal because I grew up hearing these stories about Afghanistan from my parents and how progressive the country was in the 1970s and how women, there are more women at Kabul University than there were men and women. And then to see what had happened to it over the course of my childhood with the takeover of the Taliban, and then to be there as an adult and to see Afghans and Americans and Italians and Germans and people from all over the world coming together to fight transnational terrorism together, it was so inspiring. And so obviously today, it's heartbreaking to see where the country is. But for those deployments, as difficult as they were, I was so proud. I was so proud of being both Afghan and American during those times because these two countries that I loved so much were fighting for the same cause.

[19:08] LYLA KOHISTANY: Yep. Absolutely.

[19:12] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: So, Nudijan, you and I both dealt with many transitions in our lives, but you have gone through a major transition with having been evacuated to the United States. As I mentioned earlier, you never wanted to leave Afghanistan. You wanted to stay in Afghanistan. You wanted to. You fought until the bitter end. I know your story. I know you didn't want to leave. People had to basically drag you to get on that plane because you wanted to stay and support your teammates. And so it's a loss of identity for all of us as we leave the military. For us service members, when they're leaving the military, it's very difficult to transition because you've made this choice to serve and then you are, for most people, making a choice to leave. You didn't have a choice in all of this. So please talk to us a little bit about your transition. But especially what advice do you have for people that are going through transition that are in a state of transition, whether they're Afghan, whether they're american, does it matter? What are the key things that you would share about what it takes to be resilient in the face of transition?

[20:36] LYLA KOHISTANY: Absolutely. Layla. John, you just addressed how different this two transition is. At some point, I can talk about a little bit about the story of while I being bored on an airplane and just sitting myself alone, thinking about how future would be. I think it's, I can, I can say it's just like that. That kind of transition would be like taking soul out of, out of a body and so hard. And I, in every conversation with my american colleagues, I always mentioned this, that the transition for american forces are like, it's, at least you prepare, you process, and then you execute. But for us, it was just like over a night. We didn't want it to leave the country. We didn't want it to leave military, and we didn't want it to even be evacuated at some point. But then with what happened back in Afghanistan, the country collapsed. We didn't have a choice. We had to leave the country. It wasn't a journey that we were fully prepared. No, not mentally, not physically. But again, it took a little bit time for me to realize that this is now the reality of my life as a man and as a human. And I kept thinking about what is now the cause and purpose of me living or being evacuated in the United States. It took a little bit time for me to process this and also to find or this itself is a transition of, I think, cause and purposes for many of us. And I bring this example everywhere. The moment I started to work with nonprofit honor, the promise, where we provide service to the members of Afghan army special forces in the United States who's, who've been evacuated alongside us on August 2021. I see this mission as same mission as I was doing in Afghanistan. And I always say that the tools are now different. I used to wake up in Afghanistan and grab my m four and my weapon to protect the people of Afghanistan and to protect my society against the threats and help those who cannot protect themselves. And I'm absolutely doing the same mission in the United States, but with the different tools. I wake up every morning, I grab my mouse, my keyboard. I see who, from within our community, need my help need our help, and I try to help them, and I try to find resources that could help them and their families. So I think it's just like transition of the causes and purposes that I had back home in Afghanistan, and I still have that cause and purpose. For american friends that are transitioning and for all those other forces that are transitioning, my only advice would be, don't be worried. There is a whole world waiting for you that need yourselves, your skills, your experience. There are great opportunities ahead of you. So. But processing this transition, I know it's hard for all of us, but I just want to make sure to say this clear, that there is a whole world of opportunities waiting ahead of you. You have a company. You have your comrades now in the industry that have access to all of the resources that are available. So I don't think there is any need to be worried. You would do the same mission but with the different tools. And I see that as a difference after being transitioned with that. Lilo. John, I would like to ask you, is there anything you would wish civilians that understood about military service? Since you have great experience of working both in the military and now leading great efforts in the industry. So what are some of. Some of the stuff that you would wish civilians would know about military as well? Lila, can you hear us? Okay, you may have frozen. Yeah, she's frozen. Let me pause the recording real quick.

[27:04] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: I think what I wish civilians understood about military service is that the military is the most diverse institution in the United States. Like, hands down, full stop, bar none, because we have people from every part of the United States of the United States, every socioeconomic status, every race, gender identity, everything. But then we also have people from all over the world that join the United States military. And so when you talk about wanting to hire teammates or wanting people who are part of your organization at the community level, having people who have served in the military, you're probably having people who know how to work well across a variety of differences and know how to do that quickly. Like, they can form bonds quickly, they can get to work quickly, they can find commonality of purpose and mission quickly. And more than anything else, I think that's what I wish people knew about. Those that serve is we may choose to serve for a variety of different reasons, but once we're all together, we become very focused on supporting each other and taking care of the mission. And those are really amazing qualities to have on your team. So, Nudijohn, speaking of teams and how important teams are, I would love for you to talk about your team that that has helped you so much as you have gone through this major transition in your life. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your wife and your first impressions of her.

[29:08] LYLA KOHISTANY: I must say, she play now. She play the important role in my life. I'm so proud that I have her. And as you mentioned, Lila. John. So I believe that first impressions are always the last impression. When I first met a Guida, my wife, I got to know that she is a person. She's the woman, and she's a human that I would definitely want to get married and start my relationship and my life. With being raised in a country that is dominated by men, it's really tough for women to find opportunity. Widow was one of those women who not only had the opportunity to grow and progress herself, but also to actively work and support other afghan women that were really suffering due to so many major events that happened in Afghanistan. And I think on that first. On the first meeting, she impressed me, and I made the decision that she is the person. If one day I want to make the decision to get married, and that's how we did it. We did it in some tough days of our life. We got married on August 24 before we get evacuated from Afghanistan. We started this journey together. And I think we put a. At some point, I call her a special force woman. She's been truly tough and hardworking, not giving up. And I think at some moment, at some point, when I felt broken or I felt that I cannot move forward, she was the person that was like, no, we need to move forward. And that's how I'm moving forward now. And I think it's all because of her.

[31:50] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: She is an exceptional lady. And I have had the honor, of course, of getting to know her over the last two years as well. And I get it. She is just a very inspiring. And so when there are days that you're down, when you're struggling, I can absolutely see how she would be a great person to pick you up. And I think afghan women are some of the strongest women on the face of the planet, period. Like everything that they have endured and continue to endure, it is a testament to the human spirit. So I know you don't have any children yet, Nudijan, but do you have anything important that you would want to share with them about your military service?

[32:43] LYLA KOHISTANY: The good news is that I'm gonna have my first child soon. Yes. So I think the journey where I, myself, and widow, we started as Afghans, and then as immigrants, we've been through a lot, we ourselves and also our families, to take what. What we've been through for my child that is going to born in this country, in the United States, having the opportunity as a baby girl to access education, to access good, the most upgraded technology, to access her right where the country that we are coming from is now dominated by groups that they have banned women from school and from their rights. For me to take that experience really to my daughter would really be valuable. And also what really meant for me to serve my nation and my country, defending the people of Afghanistan. I really would take that proud job that I did, the cause and purpose of that job to be really transferred to my child, to my daughter, for her to get to know that what their previous generations have done for humanity, for the men and women that could not have their rights and protect themselves. And by that being told, Dilojan, I want to really ask you, what are some of the most important people in your life? I know that you love your mom, and I know that, as you mentioned about your brother, and I believe that he is a superhero. So what are some of the important.

[35:10] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: People in your life besides my brother, who I've already talked about, of course, and God rest my mother's soul, she's buried in Afghanistan. The most important people in my life are my brother's children. So he has three kids, and they are absolutely the most amazing little people. And they make me question reality routinely. And what I mean by that is, kids are so great at just breaking down all of your barriers and really getting you to the why of your own existence. You know, they make you question, like, what you're buying and materialism and why do you need a big house and why do you need this? You know, all they want to do is play and laugh and be happy. And sometimes I think to myself, we just forget that as we get older, you know, we forget to ask why. We just get stuck in these routines. And kids are so fantastic at making you realize that there are bigger things that are more important, you know, than your job or how much money you make. And I really. I really let my love for them dictate the way that I live my life. And what I mean by that is I desire autonomy in my life so that I can always be there for them. If they've got a soccer game, I want to be there. They've got a gymnastics practice or a swimming match, I want to be there. And they are, without a doubt, the people that I live for. Like, I live to make them proud. So my last question for you, Nudijan, as we wrap up, is what are some of the most important lessons that you have learned so far in life?

[37:11] LYLA KOHISTANY: Expect it. Expect the unexpected. That's what I learned. So as a human, I believe there are so many things that happened in our past and there are so many things that would happen in the future. So we should be prepared. When I see my other fellow Afghan or Americans that always at some point are stacked in the past, I try to convince them that we should live today because there are so many, so many opportunities ahead of us that if we keep being stacked in the past, we're going to lose those opportunities. Yes. We're not serving anymore. Yes, the loss of identity, yes, the survivor guilt, so many other points would really keep us stuck in the past. But there is a whole future wedding for us. Our family need us. Our friends need us. Our comrades and our society or community still need us with our experience, with our skills. And I think that's the only lesson that I could conclude my talk and would take it to the audience and the people that would hear this interview. Thank you, Laila. John.

[38:48] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: Thank you, Nudijan. It's great to have spent this time with you and the ability for both of us to share our stories. Very special. Thank you.

[38:57] LYLA KOHISTANY: Yeah. Thank you. Lila, would you like to share any lessons that you feel like you've learned?

[39:08] AHMAD KHALID NOORI: I think the biggest lesson for me in my 44 years is that you can learn from anyone that it doesn't matter if they're older, younger, grew up the same way that you did, grew up differently than you did. I have just always looked for wisdom anywhere that I could find it, because I truly do believe that you should learn from the mistakes of others, from the joys of others, from the examples of others. And like I said, I learn a lot from my three brothers, my brother's three children, more so than I sometimes learn from people that are my own age. So always be willing to keep an open mind, listen, and take lessons from everything around you.

[39:57] LYLA KOHISTANY: Thank you.