Alana Ramadan and Carol Johnson

00:00 Carol Kennedy Johnson, I'm 80 years old. Today is January 16th 2021. We are in Minneapolis and this is the one small step partnership.

00:16 Hey, my name is Alana Ramadan. I am 60 years old its January 16th 2021. I'm in North Minneapolis. And my partner is Carol and we are with the one small step story Corps program.

00:38 I will introduce a lana what she told her what her background the Elena Michael in converted to the religion of Islam at the age of 14. I am a lifelong student of Imam WD Mahmood Muhammad Muhammad who passed away in 2008. He was my religious and social leader for 33 years. I believe in being an active participant in American Civic and political light. I consider myself a social activist. I was co-founder in a social justice group called witness for justice.

01:23 This is from Carol's intro. I look forward to each New Day family is at the heart of My Life Community is important to me currently I am actively involved in the Minnesota peace project and citizens for election Integrity my proudest achievements raising four children who are good citizens be there in Minneapolis first school desegregation program receiving a college degree first in family carol.

01:59 And I will share my life story. I all grew up in northern Minnesota on a farm which is in the Fond du Lac Indian reservation, and I was married at an early age and had a family early.

02:19 So I feel like I have had truly two or more lives one being the mother and Homemaker for children young children and then becoming a college student and getting my my college degree the first in my family, but before I did that was very active in the community with the League of Women Voters working on political campaign. So I learned a lot in the community and from there. I graduated from Metropolitan State University and got a job in the field of Social Services, Minnesota epilepsy leg. I was a director for 3 years and I had developed a plan.

03:12 Our 10-year plan for my Walt and almost to the date it became at I became active in executing that plan and I ran for political office myself and served on the Minneapolis city council for about

03:28 About two terms eight years and then I became active in nonprofits the women's Cancer Resource Center for 3 years. And now is you know, I'm active in the Minnesota peace project election Integrity. I feel so strongly and I'm it was heartening for me to hear that Elena is also interested in Civic activity. This is at the house. I have always wanted to be and have been active politically. I think it is so important and ask her what's happened in the last 10 days 12 days.

04:09 I cannot believe I'm experiencing this and so my religious background. I am a member of the first Universalist Church and have been for many many years. I've tried different denominations and this feels the most comfortable. I believe that the ancestors of the Native American Indians in northern Minnesota must have influenced My Life as a small child growing up on the farm because I am very close to Nature and find that my belief is that love is the basis of all the great religions and I respect everybody's religion because I think that love is what it's all about.

05:02 And so I'm very I feel like I'm

05:06 Mother Earth part of mother now. Alright. Wow, that's that's that's a beautiful and I mean I was making connections like I work in a school. Sometimes we do this one we like. Oh, yes. I have a connection. I guess my story is man might I mean, I feel like like you said, I've lived a lot of Life what time so I grew up in South Minneapolis my parents both of my parents as they grew up in North Minneapolis and they were from what we call the Phillis Wheatley community. So they were they both grew up in the heart of the African American community in North Minneapolis. And so when they got married they moved to South Minneapolis and then have my myself and my sister and so pretty much all my life. I I was in the same house. I grew up in the same house over South Minneapolis. I'd I went to the Minneapolis public schools.

06:05 When I was fourteen, I was introduced to the Nation of Islam. One of us be the honorable Elijah Muhammad. And that was in 1974. I was 14 and I made the decision. My parents had got divorced when I was 12. I mean we had a I thought we had a great family and it was kind of traumatic for me to my parents got divorced. However, my parents did something different back in the day. That was 1972. My mom decided to leave and leave us with my dad was at that time was kind of unusual. But when I look back I feel like that was a great thing because I stayed in the same house. I grew up much the same school as you know, I had that stability in my life and I always loved learning and so education has always been of great interest to me. So I you know, I was an active participant ID and I was

07:05 Play competitive. So I would compete with the other students, you know, try to get the best grades and everything. And so I would say that my childhood was up to 14 was very typical. And then I after I joined the Nation of Islam I pretty much I don't want to say isolated myself, but I feel like I became isolated because my beliefs were different than the other children. Do you know and so I used to wear like a long skirt in a in a in a head covering that reminded me of the nun, you know, so that kind of and then I didn't really you don't go out. I didn't go to parties are any of that kind of stuff and soul.

07:46 Why am I asking first husband kind of became my best friend. I met him when I was 14 and so we end up getting married when I Was Eighteen and so we had our three children funny removed from we moved to North Minneapolis. So I grew up in South Minneapolis moved to North Minneapolis. My parents group in North Minneapolis. When you have so we just keep going back and forth. And in in a funny thing is that I literally live one block from where my my dad grew up from the house my dad lived in and four blocks from where my mom grew up and so I'm living right in the heart of where my family's from. I feel like I've done a lot of things that I own the business my ex-husband and I are we had a business in North Minneapolis on Broadway was a fish and seafood restaurant on I currently work at a school. I'm a guided reading teacher and iPhone has been a lot of years with my educational life doing

08:46 Direct instruction teaching students how to read so that's my passion and interesting ly enough. I took me eighteen years to graduate from college, but I graduated from Metro State University. Yeah when I took me 18 years, but I I got my degree in Psychology and it's all right. Like I said, I the religion of Islam has been the heart of my life and I for many years. I studied under email marketing Muhammad and I used to go you should travel to Chicago with strap around the country to go just lectures and so that was a really big part of my life on sadly after 23 years of marriage. I my husband and I divorced and I've actually been remarried for the last 18 years to I'm a very wonderful older man. He's like 12 years older than me, but he says that we're soulmates and I and I believe that that's true because

09:46 Our faith is the heart of our lives and together. I think that's the strongest thing so I could go on but I think that and then as far as politically

09:59 I last couple years ago when they had the situation with officer former officer Mohamed Noor, I became very active is a social activist because I I felt like even though it was a tragedy that you know, he mental took someone's life. I felt like the way he was treated was totally different from the other office. And so I became like O'Malley almost like obsessed with trying to get fairness there and to the point where you know, I kind of went after the county attorney in I mean my husband and I are so now I'm really actively involved in trying to get Justice for mr. George Floyd cuz I felt like what happened to him was just horrifying and so that's where my my my political activism came social activism. But I also have been part of the dfl and help, you know, been a delegate and all that. So, yeah, so that's

10:59 A little bit of my story

11:03 Beautiful story I too am a social sympathizer as you are and the same issues are my issues. I haven't been out on the street, although I wanted to during this.

11:20 Coronavirus I had my kids are on my car hug. My husband in my case. To be exposing ourselves to but I would love to be out there and my my son lives about seven blocks from 38th and Chicago and we've been there and it's it's one of the saddest things that has happened. But one of the issues that I called the county attorney's or in my County Commissioner's Office was the young man that was 16 years old that was sent to for life imprisonment and how he is out. You know, it's funny because I actually know his wife and I go to the same Masjid with her and after we did though cuz we did a protest for Muhammad Noor like the day before he was totally sentence and in

12:20 So we have like seven hundred bucks in my goes like they said 700 300 and I was I was scared to death. I've never done anything like that in my life and I thought oh my God, how do I call the Press? What do I do? And it was just a blessing from God that I think I sent something to the tipline. You know, they have the KFC tip line where you send it to me if there's going to be something happening and the media showed up every single Channel and and I will just fight all this is just amazing and in so when you're talkin about my umbrella at you know, it's I mean, it's it's amazing how much we have in common because my husband has a TV show and so we had gone on the TV show. We invited my hands wife and his father to come and talk about the case and when you know the very day that we had them on that was the day that Amy Klobuchar was doing the debate the democratic debate and she mentioned his case and I said,

13:20 We need to get on that you do. It's like she should be using that it is so after that with the ball started rolling, you know, he start getting a lot of publicity in but you know, I'm a I'm a very I guess I'm a very forgiving person in that way because even though I was upset with her that if she had you know, use his case kind of as a badge of honor, I think once she you know, I had a chance while she was running for president. So she need to clean it up, but I feel like she did take steps that helped him to get you know that review because she could have just said I'm not interested. I think it's worth taking a second. Look at you knowing so yeah, so it's it's it's funny how we have so much in common that you said you were on the moon. You said you serve for 8 years in political office. Where what was your position? Are you certain Minneapolis city council from the 13th Ward?

14:17 Okay. Okay. Well, we'll wait what years what years were those 1968 through 1993 before I was out of office and I was took on social issues then and but I was also the chair of the environment committee. So we don't have a lot of cutting-edge things in 1989 and 1992. The last thing the council did was to vote for the carbon dioxide reduction project December of 93. So it was a happy moment that that got past and I've been told by staff that they have been implementing. That's so

15:07 Okay, let's beautiful. So you said you would so you you say you lived on the did you live on the reservation you live by the reservation we lived on the reservation my folks my grandfather. I'm the second generation of from my Finnish ancestors and my grandfather homesteaded American Indian Land, which is not the right thing that we have done. This country is done to take land from other people. So anyway, I

15:41 It was just part of the Fond du Lac Indian reservation and I had a very good friend in high school who was American Indian, you know, I want to share something with you my experience and on the city council. We had a summer program for Youth and adults. It was called business partners and I had three young women over the. Of time that I was on the council that I had in his partner for like 16 weeks in the summer. We do things together we go have a lunch or would do some activity or talk on the phone or something well to this day I am still close close friends with the young black woman in her forties, but she's like my daughter and poke. It has been the most

16:41 Relationships we've been able to submit to really connect with each other. Anyway, I've always had I say Minneapolis is a wonderful place to be except for the fact that we do not have the same opportunity for all our people if wouldn't have solved that we would be the one place to be. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I have to say that in my growing up. I didn't experience a lot of racism. I mean a lot of people saying yeah, you know, but I feel like I had a lot of opportunities. I mean like I went to Field Elementary School. I went to Firewheel junior high school I went to wash and I just I don't know I guess maybe the way my parents raised me. They didn't raise me as an African American child. They just raised me as a child who's there?

17:41 Internet so I mean I think that's a different it's a it's a big difference and I never really thought of myself as a as a radical but but but for some reason one thing, you know got to the age materials they made 1415. I don't know how this just the spirit the thing that really got me into the Nation of Islam was I just love the unity and I love the fact that they do, you know, they have their own they have their own factories that I mean, they really I mean really did seem like a nation in the nation and you know, a lot of people may have joined because you know, they had problems with any people of Caucasian people or whatever, but I really wanted to I had just before I became on the nation I had with my family's Church of Zion Baptist Church, and I had actually gone to the church and you know got baptized and everything I think was less than six months later. I was I was at the temple so, you know, I mean, but but it has really

18:41 It has satisfied my soul just to be part of mean cuz I feel like it's comprehensive and that it's not just something I do, you know one day of the week. I mean, it's my whole life. I have a daughter who's 40 and she in fact she just told me just last night. She said you traumatize me Mom because you know when you have a really modest and so when she wanted to go swimming I made her a swimsuit and she's like I like I was so embarrassed to go where that's what I said, you know, I wouldn't change a thing because that's a parent. I know I mean because before I was 14, I know what life is like without a real strong moral compass and I just did not want to see that for my children. So I tried to do everything I could to protect them have strong morals and and I think I did pretty decent, you know, and I think they're very core is good. I think it's it's been a little traumatic for me.

19:41 In the fact that I think two of my children, they still believe in God, but the religion is not Central to their life in the way that it is for me. And so I may I know they're good people, you know, but I just wanted them to you know, take take on the face. I guess be strong my youngest daughter went to she actually told me I don't want to go to public school anymore. And so she went to Islamic school in Fridley for like 5 years. And so she is very strong in her face. But when I look at my children, I don't just go buy, you know, the religious practices I go by what kind of person they are and currently my 87 year old father. He lives with me and my husband and my daughter my oldest daughter. She helps provide care and my sister ran so that's been a really interesting. It's been I never really planned, you know, like okay when my parents get all out take care of them, but

20:38 Guy just made it that we're men and women need came up and was like, yeah. Sure. Yes, that's have my dad, you know come stay with us in and it's been you know, it's just a blessing. It's it's really a blessing. Well, if you have a good Compass it will help you make the right decisions for yourself and and encourage others to do the same and I had found when you're on your right path things come to you it just in it.

21:15 And then when the thought comes to me that I should do something for a neighbor or something and if I don't do it, I keep nagging myself until I do what is important to show a person that you love them or care for them are concerned about them. So I

21:39 I think I think a lot of time while your influence on your children is the real important thing and how you raised them. We've have four children and their

21:51 58 to 62 and they have children and well, we had a very close family and it's so did my husband and that has been a very good example to about looking out for one another and holding them close and loving them and showing that you care about them and it just it seems like you have a Charmed Life when you can.

22:30 When you feel that way about one another and I think you know, it's kind of like when I when I grew up or and now that I'm an adult and I look back and I can look at my family and I look at my dad's family and my mom's family and I think you know, it's such a blessing to have a good family, you know, sometimes people I mean we are faith is really at the heart of our family and in I mean it and I have like my mom. My mom is a Lutheran Minister. Yeah. She's a retired Lutheran Minister and so it's kind of like what the thing that I love about her is that she accepts me for who I am in in in the fact that I am listening back. There has been many times when she calls me and says I'm going to come to jummah that the Friday prayer and I'm like, okay, you know, but I think that we have respect for one another and me we've had our moments where you know, I'll say well Mom

23:30 Legislation. She's like what I can't I can't understand it cuz you know one of the things that I think she was talking about, you know, God loves everybody and I'm like well and our faith, we don't believe that we don't need that God loves people that do evil, you know, and so she had a real hard time with that. I don't know. I don't know. What what's your what is your position on that? What it what do you think about that?

23:57 I I'm not I feel that people come to life in different ways. And I I do believe people can change but I don't like the evil that is perpetrated on people and I think people need to be accountable for that and and the you know, so but I'm I feel like people should be able to leave prison when they have changed and get being forgiven. So yeah.

24:30 But I you know, I think that sadly there's a lot of people that that aren't in prison that probably should be you know, I mean, I mean, I feel like some people, you know, they'll make a mistake but that'll be you know like that that day or that time or whatever but there's some people who continue to do evil. I mean, they don't go to prison for it, but they they probably should well I can think of one person that died, you know, so I mean and even the whole the whole criminal justice thing. I mean, I've been reading a book called the new Jim Crow and

25:15 Yeah, and it's it's just it it breaks my heart. It just breaks my heart to know that you don't even know people have served their time when they get out. They still having served their time, you know saying it's like they're they're punished. I mean all the time they close all the doors for them. And then they wonder wonder why they break the doors down. I mean, it's just it's a setup. It surely is there they can't get a job that can't find an apartment that can't yeah, it's it's not good that needs to change and I'm hoping that that is going to be a change. Yeah. Yeah, but I think it's go ahead riches are very good place to start that because if you realize that people need a fresh start and they need a little boost. Well, that's what we're all about helping one another so up there.

26:12 So what do you what do you think? What is your opinion on like conservatism? I mean, I think that one of the things that I've seen in it and it really troubles me because some seems like to me that a lot of Republicans they they say they're conservative but then and I feel I feel like phases of supposed to be at the heart of what they believe but then I see them supporting things that are clearly wrong troubles me. So what's your opinion about that? I think I my opinion is about the same as yours. And what would Jesus do? What would Martin Luther King do what would Paul wellstone. Do you ask yourself those questions in your leader to get some?

27:08 We

27:10 It's it's a shame because at the heart of which they claim is a Christian religion is not not a loving one. So it would have been a way that they've been people are treated her with the positions they have

27:30 Yes, but you know, I think I try try to be I try to be fair I'll because I said, you know, when I look at a lot of the things that happened in society that you know, like, you know, when they have Devastation or whatever. I know that the Christian do true Christian people they come forward and they try to help and I I mean I feel I feel bad like man, how come we can't let you know what we can be as hell, So it's almost like America is the beauty and it's the Beast and I really see Minnesota as almost like a microcosm of America cuz we have on one hand, you know, it's a good place to be but on the other hand. We have the highest incarceration rate of African American men almost in the country. You'll see you on one side. You see the Beauty and the other side you see the Beast and I'm just like my thing is, you know, I I believe in you know judging people not based on the color of their skin, but like Martin Luther King,

28:30 The content of your character and so my parents raised me like that, even though I became part of the Nation of Islam was said, you know, the white man is the devil. I mean, I didn't have that spirit in me. That's not why I became a part of it and I and I think that because of the way I was raised I can get along with people. You know, I'm saying I don't I mean people when I voted for a job I and you know, I wish I was that big active on Facebook like, oh, you know what in a lot of people gave a lot of pushback, you know, it's like they're all the same there, you know, they're all part of the system. I'm like, how how am I going to do what I've seen him do and what I seen him say really touched my heart to the point like this is a decent man and even my own daughter she was like what he's in a corrupt and he didn't we almost fell out to the point where like look I don't even know who you are. Really bad and I felt like, you know, she was radicalized online, you know.

29:30 When they find out that you have a certain and I think it was because she has strong moral values, but they use that kind of trick her into supporting Donald Trump, you know, so

29:42 Will all the person that has a personality that continuously cut down other people and fires people and it finds no good in anyone only the personal password desires that he wants to keep supporting or she wants to talk to me. That's not the example of you or me or most of the country and I mean, even we have some very good friends who ordered Trump early on in 2015. They are good people. I know they're good people and not understand why they would support a man that has had so many flaws and

30:37 So I and you know, I don't want to confront them or but I do miss their company and write things and I think once we get over the feeling that we can't discuss things if we could discuss them and give and take and listen and I think we're going to find a lot of people that think very much like we do about our government our country.

31:10 Needs to work for the betterment of people when we need to put it to the people that are smart that can look to the Future have the skills to make a plan and in and it's execute the plan. If we don't have hope in this country, it's going to it's just going to be not what we think of ourselves. Yeah, so any

31:50 It's been more important that people like yourself speak out and be out in the street and express because it just shows that we need to change their people that will support the change and we could just find a way to reach to find how to communicate with others. But I think it's almost like a sickness you get trapped in it and you keep rolling with it and rolling with it and you know these conspiracy theories. Real, you know, I am in election judge in Hawaii have been for wife has been for the last five years for about 20 years and I think people should become election judges eyes are system because you realize

32:43 The stock that's got gone behind the process of developing the process so that every vote counts and in Minnesota. That paper is the vote of record. That is so important when you can have a recount and you can confirm

33:03 That there was there was no Shenanigans going on the people that criticize the system have to become part of the system. They have to be at the table and hear the back-and-forth discussion and contribute to their share their thoughts. So if we can we can start moving in that direction, so people don't feel like they're left out of things or look down to her something. I think that's something that's that's what's killing the boy. That's why we've have

33:45 What do you think? I think that a lot of people I think a lot of people feel like they're in even if they are part of if they get in the system, they feel like they're part of the problem because a lot of people feel like the system is so corrupt and needs to be like this all the way broken down just like the whole issue of you know, defunding the police now initially, I thought well, that's a stupid idea, you know, but then I said, well I listen to I think it's Phillipe Cunningham and some of the other people which I think was three people they didn't interview on one of the TV stations and I said, I understand and it makes sense to me that you if you have a domestic situation or if you have a mental health situation that you should have people that are skilled in that area to come and help because I just saw on TV a situation. Where a man

34:45 He was having a mental health crisis African American man, I think it was like maybe fifty or sixty or something is family called the mental health line. They sent a police officer the police officer end up killing the man and it's like, oh my God, I mean it's not like they called the police know sometimes people call the police. But in this case, they didn't even call the police. They called from mental health and has been so many people is just it is it's probably it's very troubling and then on the other hand, I have some serious problems with African Americans killing each other to you know, it's over. You know what? I mean? I criticize criticize, you know, and I don't hate off Lisa. I don't think that that's right. If you were going to judge people by the color. If you're not going to judge you by the color of their skin, you should tell him by the collar that uniform either. I mean, you know, that's to me that's that's the same idea. So

35:41 You know when I go by my friends my my experience with police officers, you know, I call you and I called my neighbors if there was acting up or whatever and then I get nervous about calling calling because I'm like, I don't want to be responsible for it, you know somebody being shot and so there might be times where I may feel like I want to call but I'm like, no I better not call cuz that would be terrible. I feel horrible, you know, they end up killing the person so I don't know is what do you think about now? It's like we have the situation with the impeachment. Do you think that the Democrats should go forward with the prosecuting the case or do you think that they should just let it go?

36:23 No, I I feel that the president did not live up to his old to defend the country and secure and have safety and for us to keep looking the other way. We've looked the other way for almost 4 years. That's just the way he is and there comes a time when too much damage is taking place and we speak the truth. That's the way I feel people say well, but if you do that, then it's going to divide the country because you know, then the people that support him or going to be even angrier because you're you're even after he's left office. You're still trying to prosecute. Well, I think that he had an obligation to live up to the oath of office and we have got to see it through and for whatever.

37:23 It may be that he will be found guilty. They need 17 extra yays.

37:35 Yeah from the Republic range. And yeah, it may be that it comes to pass that that that judgment for his behavior is yeah, I think I really I don't think that the Republicans are going to do it even though they know it's the right thing and I think you know being a Muslim person. I think you know fearing people more than you fear. Your creator is this not this is not acceptable and I feel like they're allowing Their Fear of the base or fear of Donald Trump's that to mean to me that's almost sacrilegious. And I mean you do if you're a person of Faith you do the right thing and in the sight of God, do you can't worry about what the people think because it's it's the right thing to do, you know, well

38:35 Speak vomit, Mitch McConnell said of conscience. That's what he's asking for. Yeah, and I and I think I'm just completely disturbed by the fact that many of the Congress people are saying they are afraid that their colleagues are going to come to the floor with weapons. And I mean, I I looked at 1 interview with Ayanna Pressley and she was saying that turns out someone had removed the Panic buttons from her often and and when she went, you know, when we got locked in the room some of the people didn't want to put on mass and she's like, I'm not staying in this room and her husband end up getting a coronavirus to her husband was there with her

39:23 You know, it's just like this is and I think that this is a moment. This is a moment for us. And and I think with with Trump he just thought there's no way that I'm going to get out of office. Do you know I'm his love of Putin and love of you know, Kim Jong on. I mean, I think he wanted to be that he wanted to be a dictator. He wanted to get where maybe people would vote to let him stay in office forever, you know and so is but I think that, you know people like yourself that are open-minded and really are trying to be fair. I mean it's so encouraging to have people such as yourself and you know other people just like, you know, we're going to do the right thing. It doesn't matter. You know, what color you are what faith you are, you know, so that I'm really encouraged by that. Well, I'm delighted to hear you visit with me today. I would call you my friend.

40:23 Yeah work with you and do whatever I can to promote our thinking about what remedies need to be made in our community in this country are some Hall exchange exchange phone number to different groups, you know, but talking to people in talking with people is something different, you know when you give a lecture and you don't and I and I'm just thankful that for this opportunity to have you know, I I I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was going to let you know talk to somebody that was a die-hard trumpster or you don't know but I guess God would have it. You know, I would have one of my sisters my faith sisters on the other end of the line. So I mean, well, I thank you for all that you have done in your community in our community.

41:23 Yeah, it's me. It's a beautiful, you know, it's nice. Well, we're going to we got a lot of work ahead of us and we not cross the communities. So just bring people into the conversation and find out how we're going to move ahead without brains in pieocracy.

41:46 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think you know with our faith and an r and m mean in work, I mean we can't just sit and think is going to be fixed. But I said, you know, I put something I do a lot of Facebook and so I put a little story I said if somebody evil, you know forces their way into your house and you know, you're terrified of them and then 80 million people helping get them out. Why would you let him back in. That's that's that's on the Republicans. They have to make the decision. I think I'll let the person back in the house. But hey, we got them out of their life better take advantage of it why you can't well, I think the the platforms have to continue to not allow that kind of speech to continue. I have been repeating over the many months. It's like being in a theater and somebody shouting out fire and they're doing it and that

42:46 Should be curtailed.

42:48 Yeah, and I am. You know, I do a lot of praying people say pray for me and I was like, but now I do a lot of I do a lot of praying I was like I pray for Joe Biden that pray for Kabul Harris. I just I'm like it it was just an in fact. I had to check one of my Facebook people and they mentioned something about assassination. I said don't even put that out there. Don't even put that out there because don't even give anybody any ideas. I mean, I don't care if this is only our second Catholic President don't mention I put on a Prayer on the election day in Georgia that the election officials would be safe. If I said if there could be a miracle that old Democratic candidates one and it came to pass. Yeah. Yeah. Yes it did and the crazy thing is that with all that drama and Holly chalk painting Harley talk about it cuz but the day that they asked me what it was the day that they had the Christ.

43:49 Song but the fact Still Remains is like whatever you going to get done get it done now, but it's so Carol. Your last name is Ramadan, Atlanta Ramadan.

44:09 Yes in deed as well as it's just a real pleasure. Thank you so much for