Alex Jhamb Burns and Chapin Montague

[00:05] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Okay. My name is Chapin Montague. I'm 24. No, I'm 25.

[00:11] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: No, you're not. You're 25. Wait, do you have to start again?

[00:14] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: No, it's okay.

[00:15] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay.

[00:15] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: It's all part of it. I'm 25. Yeah. Okay. And today's date? It's July 16, and we are at the New York City booth on opening day of the New York City booth. Very exciting. And I'm here with Alex, my friend Alex. And she's my friend.

[00:41] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Wow. That was a good introduction. My name is Alex Jhamb Burns. I'm 25 years old. Today is July 16, 2024. And we are in the storyCorps NYC booth, which is located in Manhattan. And I'm here with my friend, Chapin, who is my friend.

[01:08] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I just want to make sure the people know.

[01:10] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[01:12] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Okay. So maybe, Alex, we can start talking about how we met. I think that's because it's kind of a fun story.

[01:22] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[01:23] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about how we met?

[01:27] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay.

[01:27] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: We can talk about it together.

[01:29] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. I can start us off.

[01:30] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Okay.

[01:31] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So, I don't know, actually, how you saw the event, but I saw it on an email list. Did you see it on an email list, or did someone tell you?

[01:42] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I think so. I think I went. Okay. It was a radio event meet up.

[01:47] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: It was a. Audio something. Audio NYC something.

[01:51] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And we were both budding. NYC audio girlies.

[01:55] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. It was at a brewery in Gowanus.

[01:59] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Three's brewing.

[02:00] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yes.

[02:00] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Shout out.

[02:02] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And you were there with a girl?

[02:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I was there with my friend Zoe, because we were interning on a food radio show together.

[02:13] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yes. And I was there alone. And I got there, and I was so scared, because I went alone. And then there were so many people there.

[02:21] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[02:22] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I was standing at the bar, and then some people were like, oh, are you here for the meetup? And I was like, yeah. And then we walked over to the table.

[02:33] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[02:34] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And we're sitting near each other, maybe across from each other, and there was, like, a man. It was really dominating the conversation.

[02:43] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah. And he went to Wesleyan, I remember. Yeah. And he was giving, like.

[02:50] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And he smelled really bad.

[02:52] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[02:52] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I smelled so bad. Oh, my God.

[02:55] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: You. Is that. You have sensitive smells. Like. I don't remember that.

[03:00] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: But I was sitting next to him, and he was like. His body odor was spread strong. I will say that.

[03:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: My God, I hope he.

[03:08] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I don't remember his name, but I.

[03:09] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Remember his smell, but we don't have to name him.

[03:12] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. And I don't know his name, so I couldn't name him if I wanted to. But you probably do.

[03:17] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: But we were there, and I remember meeting you, and I was like, she seems really cool. You give off a very cool vibe in your style and your demeanor, I think, wow. And so I was like, she seems really cool. I'm gonna be friends with her. And then. Okay, but I'm curious, like, where were you at WMN at that point?

[03:50] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I was. Yeah, I was, sorry.

[03:52] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: We don't have to act.

[03:54] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Redacted company. Working as a production assistant.

[03:59] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[04:00] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And on a bunch of podcasts.

[04:02] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[04:04] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I won't say too much about that.

[04:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: It's just funny. Yeah. Cause I feel like I. I think I was at WNYC at that point, and then doing the food internship, food radio internship, and then also working at the sandwich shop, and that now just feels like a very different time in my life.

[04:25] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Because you were. Yeah. I remember you telling me your life and your room, and I remember you describing the shape of your apartment.

[04:34] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, yeah, my apartment's weird. Yeah, the people know. Yeah. But we were like, what was your.

[04:44] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: First impressions of Chapin? Yeah, I thought Chapin was cool. She was with this girl who. Talk to her like, you were cool. Yes.

[04:55] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[04:55] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Talk to them. Yes. I'll say that again. Yeah. I remember thinking that you seemed cool, and you were with Zoe. Zoe and Zoe. I feel like there was a lot of people at the table who were sort of like, you know this person, and I know that there's a lot of that happening, and I feel like we just had, like, a genuine connection that wasn't like, oh, you know this person. I know this person. Yeah.

[05:27] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Cause we didn't know anybody. We were all just, like, starting out and, like, what are we doing?

[05:33] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, yeah. And there was definitely a lot of people, like, peacocking their industry vibes, I guess, was sort of. It felt like it was a space where definitely some people came there less to be, like, I want to meet new people, and more like, I want to tell people that these are cool, the cool things I'm working on.

[05:55] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, yeah. I think it was, like, the first time, I mean, Zoe, I had. I think it was also kind of the first time I'd, like, hung out with Zoe. And I was like, Zoe feels very cool. And, like, you were very cool. And I was like, oh, this is fun to, like, meet other people doing this work that, like, I would actually want to hang out with and be friends with and, like, young women who are doing this work. I don't know.

[06:20] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: There were a lot of men there.

[06:21] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: There were a lot of men there. And I was like, these people are so cool. Like, if I can be friends with these people and, like, then I'll be. It'll be cool and fun. So, like, I think that was really nice to be able to have that connection with you two at that thing. And then.

[06:41] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Well, so then I think we. Well, we maybe, like, got each other's Instagram or something, right? Yeah, I knew.

[06:49] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: We followed each other on Instagram, yada Yada, as it goes in this world.

[06:55] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And then flash forward. How long was it?

[06:58] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I'm gonna.

[06:59] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: It was a while.

[07:00] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Maybe like, a couple months. Yeah, maybe it was, like, spring, and then it was maybe, like, early summer.

[07:07] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. And.

[07:09] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And we were at our dear friend's apartment, which is, like, such a. I don't know. I feel like that apartment is such, like, a New York place for me. Like, it's one of my New York places because they've lived there for so long, and it's like, they were pretty.

[07:26] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: New there, though, then I think they had just.

[07:29] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, it might have been.

[07:29] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I think it was their house, which.

[07:31] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Is so sweet, because we've, like, hung.

[07:33] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Out with so much. Yeah.

[07:36] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: But it was our three friends. Well, there's Ellen and there's Maggie and there's Annie. And we all know each of them to different degrees. You know Ellen very well. I knew Maggie very well.

[07:49] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[07:49] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And now know Annie and Ellen also. And we were each other.

[07:57] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: We were under the.

[07:58] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: We were under the cabinet that we were on.

[08:00] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: We have a cabinet that you almost hit people on.

[08:03] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[08:03] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: You almost hit your head.

[08:04] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[08:05] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yes. I mean, and we had a moment this past weekend where we were like, wait, we're the cabinet where we reunited. Yeah, but we ran into each other. We're like, oh, you're the person from the audio meetup.

[08:20] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[08:20] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I think that is when we, like, that kickstarted the actual friendship.

[08:25] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: It really kick started the friendship, and.

[08:28] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: It was when we got each other's numbers and.

[08:31] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, and I think it was one of those things that, like, I just think it's so weird to, when you're in New York City and you, like, run into people that, you know, like, I always think that's so strange because it's like, what are the odds? But then it's like, you know, if you run in the same circles, then the world's not that big.

[08:53] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[08:54] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: But it felt like I was like, oh, my God, this is, like, a crazy, like, New York moment crossover.

[09:01] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[09:03] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And. Yeah. I was like, this is so cool.

[09:06] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And then, well, I feel like it was such. Like we met at a very networky event.

[09:11] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Totally.

[09:11] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Like, oh, we're just, like, in our friends home now. Then it was like, oh, we could.

[09:16] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And now we can actually be friends. Be friends.

[09:19] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. And I think. Can I?

[09:26] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, go. Yeah. Ask a question, girl.

[09:30] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So I was gonna say, one of the things I also remember when I first met you was that I was like, you told me you were from Tennessee. We were all saying where we were from.

[09:38] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Uh huh.

[09:39] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Zoe's from Minnesota, right?

[09:41] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Mmm. Zoe's from New York, but she went to college at Carleton.

[09:46] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay. And she was like, coming. Zoey.

[09:48] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Zoe. Shout out.

[09:50] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Shout out. Zoe. Missed. And I've never been to Tennessee, and I think you were, like, maybe the first person I've met from Tennessee. I don't think I knew anyone in school from there. And I lived in Maine until college, so no Tennesseans.

[10:12] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: What is your tennesseean? Yeah.

[10:15] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay, so can you tell me a little bit about Chattanooga?

[10:20] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, my gosh. Okay. My favorite topic. Yeah. Chattanooga is where I grew up. I lived there also my whole life till I went to college, and I think I had very complicated feelings about it while I was there. I went to, like, a high school that was pretty conservative and, like, very old. And the high school, a lot of. Yeah, it had just, like, been around for a long time. So there were a lot of, like, families who had been sending their kids there for a long time. And just, like, it felt very, like, old, stuffy south sort of vibes. And I really didn't like it. And I, by the end, was very frustrated by that environment and wanted to get out and be away from people there.

[11:35] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Did either of your parents grow up there?

[11:37] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah. So my dad is from Chattanooga. His family's been in Chattanooga for a long time. My mom's from Seattle, so. And, yeah, I think I just was like. And Chattanooga, I would say, is not, like, given that it's in Tennessee. Like, it's a pretty liberal space. Like, it's a fairly progressive city for where it is. And, like, my family's views are, like, very similar to my own, which I've always been super grateful for, but the environment, I kind of always felt like I was being challenged, which is not a bad thing, but I think it can get a little exhausting. You're a teenager and you're like, why is everyone thinking all this stuff that I don't also think? So I left, and I went to Wesleyan in Connecticut. That was the first time I'd lived anywhere that wasn't Tennessee. And then when I was there, I started to really miss Tennessee. And I feel like that's a very normal thing to have happen where you're like, I gotta get out, and then you leave, and then you're like, no, wait. And I think now I feel really grateful to have grown up in a place where I had to, like, I had to learn how to, like, live alongside people who didn't agree with me and, like, speak up for what I thought. And so I think that really, like, formed me in a way that wouldn't have been the same if I lived in a place where everyone felt the same as me, if that makes sense. And I also think I have a lot of love for the south in general now, both in the sense of the environment. It's just very beautiful in this very specific way. I was home recently. I was actually on a trip with storyCorps in New Orleans, and I was talking to one of my coworkers, and I was like, there are, like, greens here that just, like, don't exist anywhere else.

[14:10] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Like, the colors.

[14:11] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: The colors. Yeah, yeah. But, like, just driving around, like.

[14:16] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Like, shades of green.

[14:18] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, yeah. And it's, like, the same. Yeah. Like, in Tennessee. And then I was home, and I, like, was also thinking about that, and I think that's very special. But then also, I think the work that's happening in the south, there's a lot of really important work going on to make the south a safe place to live. And there's a really strong sense of community that exists there. I think because of that, that, I think is really special and unique. That was a really long answer, but I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about the south and Tennessee.

[14:57] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: You said when you went to college that you started to miss it. Like, what did you miss about it? And what do you still miss about it now?

[15:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, I think I missed. I think I missed. I really didn't like Connecticut as a state. Sorry. I think it, like, really has not that much to offer, not shout out, Connecticut. It kind of sucks.

[15:26] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I would agree.

[15:27] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah. And, yeah. So just, I think, like, again, like, the environment and, like, the landscape, I think that's what, like, I missed most initially, and then I. Yeah, I also just think, like, the sense of community just feels different than it does in this area of the world, if that makes sense. So you also lived in a place for your whole life before going to college?

[16:05] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I did.

[16:06] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Can you talk about Maine and how you feel about Maine as a place?

[16:10] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, I. Yeah, I mean, where I grew up in Maine is very beautiful as well. I would say, like, the town that I'm from is near the ocean. Like, not the open ocean, but Maine is very, like, zigzaggy the coast, so a lot of little bays and inlets. And, like, I was on the cross country team in high school. And, like, every day, our runs, we would just, like, run past the ocean and around the bay. And then, like, at the end of practice, like, jump in the ocean, just like, in our running clothes, which was very fun and a nice way to end a run. But, yeah, the town I grew up in was pretty small and it. So I went to, like, and I went to public school all throughout. So it was like I was in elementary school with certain people, and then we all went to the same middle school and then we all went to the same high school. And the class was pretty small. So definitely by the time I graduated, I was like, get me out of here, because I was not. Not vibing with a lot of people anymore. Just, like, tired of being around the same people. And. Yeah, I mean, I think so. It also is a college town where I grew up. So I was very influenced by that in that, like, well, one, I was, like, a part, even though I was not, like, actually part of the college, I felt like it was very part of the community. And, like, I took, like, ice skating lessons there. And, like, I taught swim at the college pool. And I actually, like, towards the end of high school, I took some classes at the college. Or I can name it, it's boating college. And. Yeah, so that was kind of fun to, like, I took some spanish classes there and, like, got to, like, I was, like, a junior or senior in high school and got to meet people, which was fun because I was so tired of the people in my high school.

[18:35] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, that's cool.

[18:37] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So it was nice to just, like, have some new friends. Like, one of whom I met him in that class and then I was studying abroad and I visited. He was somewhere else and I visited him. And then, I don't know. So I just kept up some of those connections.

[18:53] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[18:53] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Which was. It was a fun thing to be able to do. But, yeah, I think, like, where I grew up in Maine, well, like, the southern part of Maine is the most populated part, but also, like, relatively more affluent than anywhere else in Maine. Like, central, northern, like any non coastal or southern part of Maine. Like, there's a lot of, like, logging or other industries that left. And so it. It felt like. I don't know. I think sometimes when people find out I grew up in Maine, they're like, oh, you're so rural, or, like, so. And it didn't feel, like, crazy, like, rural in any way.

[19:40] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[19:41] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Like, compared to, like, my friends who grew up in New York City, it definitely was extremely different. But I. I think, like, there are parts of Maine where it's, like, ten towns share one school. Right. So, yeah, it was definitely different from that. Yeah. And. Yeah, I don't know. I think, like, I. I liked growing up in Maine. Like, it was. It was good. It was fun, so.

[20:10] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And you're about to go back? Yeah, chamaine, I am. How are you feeling about that and going home?

[20:24] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Really stressed. Yeah, I don't. My mom and I are very similar in many ways. My mom and I, too, in some challenging way, my mom and I, too, so we struggle to cohabitate at times. So I think that will be. I mean, I guess my plan is that there is no plan right now. So it's very, like, I don't know how long I'm gonna be home, but I don't want to be home more than a month. Yeah. My sister is home right now. She just graduated college, and she's home, and that will be nice to have her there, but so nice. Yeah, I don't. When I go home, I don't see people really, like, when I go home. Well, I also, like, don't have a car anymore, so I can't really go anywhere.

[21:26] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Mm hmm.

[21:27] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Because we live, like, in the woods.

[21:29] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Mm hmm.

[21:30] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And. Yeah, it's a far wall. So when I go home, I generally, like, I go home probably once a year, and I don't really see people. Like, I have, like, a few close friends, but often they're, like, not home at the same time or. Yeah, various reasons.

[21:55] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[21:56] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I kind of, like, hermit when I go home, and so I'm sort of, like, in some ways, it's nice because I, like, just will be, like, outside and, like, with my thoughts for worse. But it also is definitely different than other people's experiences of, like, going home and, like, seeing all the friends.

[22:17] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, I think it's, like, so weird because I just went home, obviously, for not as long, but for, like, a week recently, and I think it's weird. Did you, like, live in the same house, like, throughout your whole. Okay, me too. Like, since I was three, we, like, lived in the same house. And it's weird to think of that home now is, like, when I go back, it's, like, so temporary. Yeah. Yeah.

[22:47] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Sorry.

[22:48] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Is there anywhere yeah. I think it's, like, weird to think of a place that was so permanent for so long as a temporary thing now, and knowing that's kind of how it's always gonna be. And I think the last time I went home, I was like, oh, my God. Everything that I'm doing right now feels really special. And these things that I used to do all the time, and I went, and the first night I was home, I, like, biked to dinner with my dad to this restaurant that's on the river, and we had our favorite food, and I was just talking with my. Oh, my God.

[23:35] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay.

[23:36] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, my God, guys, I've been reading.

[23:38] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So much food writing last night, I couldn't get. I was like, I think you actually follow this person on Instagram, this food writer, and I was, like, really down a rabbit hole. Chris something. Or you follow someone else who writes with him. And I was just reading so much food writing last night.

[23:55] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, my God. I love food writing. Yeah.

[23:57] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay. What did you eat?

[23:59] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I ate. Okay. It's this restaurant called the boathouse. It's right on the river. It's so good. It's kind of vaguely southern. It's, like, gulf coast food vibes, and so they have, like, a lot of seafood. So we, like, went. I had half and half tea with lemon, which you can't get outside of the south, in my opinion, in a good way. And it's so good when it's so hot, and we, like, just biked. So we had half and half tea with lemon. We had this, like, wedge salad that's just, like, so good. And it has really good bacon on it. And then I had oysters, which I, like, never have, but I was like, I really want oysters. And they're, like, really cheap there. They're, like, from the Gulf coast. And then we had this squid situation that's, like, squid and garlic and feta and really good bread.

[24:58] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: That sounds so good. It was so good.

[25:01] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And I just talked to my dad for, like, 3 hours. He's, like, one of my favorite people, and I, like, don't get to see him very much. And it was, like, so nice.

[25:12] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah.

[25:13] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: And then I went and saw, like, my best friend from high school, and we, like, spent a day together also in, like, this very beautiful place.

[25:21] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Do they live in?

[25:23] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, they live. They work on a farm in Tennessee, so they live. It was their birthday yesterday. Shout out to Maddie. And I went to my favorite bakery. I saw my grandma. And it's so funny because it's, like, I don't and I just felt so relaxed, too. And I was like, I know that this is just because I don't get to do this all the time. And if I was able to do it all the time, it would not feel this way. But now, because everything feels so temporary, being home means such a different thing. I don't know if you feel like that with your home, too.

[26:03] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I mean, I think when I'm home, I, like, spend a lot of time with my parents.

[26:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[26:07] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I guess with my sister, if one. She's also. Yeah. But it will be weird to go back because they're all like, I think I told you how my sister is, like, leaving for her fulbright in the new year.

[26:20] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[26:20] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Like, right now, she's just. She's working at a bar at home.

[26:23] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah. Where's she going again?

[26:25] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Guatemala. And my parents both work still, so, like, they have work, and my mom has a new job now. Or, like, she's working at different places than she used to. Okay. Different hospitals. So they'll all be. I don't know. I was, like, talking to her yesterday, and she was like, what's the plan? And I was like, I don't know. I'm still figuring it out. And I got moving boxes yesterday, and I think I'm gonna put stuff at my grandmother's house in New Jersey. And then I just bring, like, a suitcase.

[26:59] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, yeah.

[27:00] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I'm selling all my belongings to one of Allie's new roommates. So I'm gonna be mostly unencumbered, I think, but they'll all be, like, doing their thing. And my mom was like, well, am I supposed to, like, take a day off when you. I was like, I don't know. Just, like, have your schedule and, like, we'll figure it out. Yeah, I'll probably, like, take a bus home or something.

[27:23] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[27:24] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: But, yeah, I don't know.

[27:26] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Well, I was gonna ask about your sister.

[27:28] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Mm hmm.

[27:29] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Because we're both older siblings, two younger siblings who are the same age, and I feel like we're both very close with our siblings, and so I wondered if you could talk a little bit about your sister and your relationship to her.

[27:48] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are close now. We were not always very close, I would say, like, or I was listening yesterday to the switched on pop interview with my crushes, Lawrence. The band.

[28:07] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[28:08] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And, like, it was with two siblings who, like, are in the band together, and I don't remember their first names, but they were talking about, like, how. Or, like, at the end that the interviewer was asking like, how do you guys make it work? Like, doing family business and, like, family band together? And they were like, well, it works because. Well, one of the ways that it. One of the reasons it works is because they had enough of an age gap where they were never, like, competitive or never, like, I don't know, just, like, doing the same things at the same time growing up. And I feel like when I heard that, I was like, oh, yeah, that was, like, the opposite. Or, like, for me, it was that, like, my sister and I were doing the same things at the same time.

[28:52] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[28:52] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And very competitive. And I also think we were a little bit, like, pitted against each other, like, especially academically, but also in other ways. And, like, we used to, like, figure skate together, and then she got better than me, and I quit. I was upset about it. Like, I remember the day that she, like, surpassed the level or whatever, and I, like, I, like, went into my basement at home, and I was, like, crying, and my mom came down, and she was like, what's wrong? I can't do this anymore.

[29:30] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Cause what's your age difference?

[29:32] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: We're three years apart.

[29:33] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[29:33] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And I think that's, like, close enough, especially as, like, two girls where, like, we're, like, different friends and different situations, but also, like, or have similar interests, maybe, or, like, put into the same activities, and then it's like, yeah. So I think there was, like, on both ends, some resentment growing up, and, like, she felt like I was, like, setting too high of a bar for her academically and that, like, my mom would, like. Well, yeah, yeah, I feel.

[30:10] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I think I was in a very similar situation to that of, like, I don't know. I think sisters are a very specific dynamic, and I don't think I was ever competitive with my brother, but I think I was definitely, like, I was a very anxious child and, like, really, I think, put a lot of pressure on myself to, like, do very well in school and, like, be, like, good, I guess, just, like, as a whatever. And I think, like, my brother is, like, just, like, so incredibly smart and, like, so much smarter than me in so many ways and, like, way more creative and, like, all of these things, but, like, because, like, and he wasn't, like, bad in school, but he just, like, I was just, like, a freak who was, like, obsessed with, like, being really good at things or feeling crazy. And then my parents, you know, Max was, like, had different priorities. Better priorities, I would say.

[31:37] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Some might say.

[31:38] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Many might say. And yet then they would be like, oh, Max, and get on him, and I would just be like, you don't want him to be like me because I am not having a good time, guys. So, like, that's, like, put this into perspective a little bit. And. Yeah, so. And I think, like, my. Yeah, I'm curious. I don't know how much you want to talk about this, but I. You mentioned the thing about your mom, and I feel like I also have very similar feelings about my mom, where, like, we're so similar. And I think I didn't realize that for a long time. I think I'm just starting to realize that now that, like, oh, we are, like, the same in a lot of ways. Not in all ways, but I think the ways that, like, our brains work, and it causes a lot of butting heads and, yeah, I think for a long time, I didn't realize it was because we're so alike, and I'm kind of, like, realizing that, and I'm like, oh, my God.

[32:34] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. Well, also, just to say one more thing, though, about my sister.

[32:38] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, my gosh.

[32:38] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: The whole dynamic growing up was that she would be like, you're not my mom. And I was like, I know I'm not your mom, but I would micromanage my sister in a way that my mom did, which was. Yeah, I feel like I was like, I'm helping her, but she was like, stop doing that. Which I get. But also, yeah, I would, like, second tier parent her. Totally. In some ways, that definitely annoyed her.

[33:06] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[33:08] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: In my head, I was like, I'm doing this for your benefit. And I think in that tendency, it's very. Yeah, just like the way my mom is a very, like, intense person and a very direct person, which I would say I've inherited those qualities as I'm currently actually off. Have some things to tell you about that relate to this, but I think that can be a good thing sometimes. But it also can be, like, wanting to, like, manage everyone and, like, make sure everyone's, like, having the best time or doing, like, the right thing for them. And it's like, actually, other people can figure that out for themselves. And I think, like, my mom grew up in a very challenging situation, and so it's definitely, like, I know what a lot of it, or, like, the more I've grown up, the more I, like, understand where it comes from. And, like, I was like, I called my grandmother my mom's mom the other day, and we were talking about it. Cause a lot of my mom has a lot of siblings, and many of them don't talk to each other for various reasons. But, yeah, so I think, like, my mom's happy that my sister and I are so close. Cause she doesn't have that with her siblings. She's, like, glad that we're not gonna turn out like them.

[34:45] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[34:46] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And, like, have so much. So many issues and so much resentment, but, yeah. Have you and Max always been close?

[34:57] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: No. No, I think we got a lot closer when I left home. Honestly, I think, like, honestly, I was kind of just, like, bitch sometimes to him.

[35:11] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So real.

[35:13] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: We were like, nature. He was like, he was such a sweet little thing. Like, so little for so long, and now I know he's, like, people now only know him as this, like, giant, like, gorgeous blonde man, but, like, he was not like, that giant, gorgeous blonde, so it's so funny. Yeah. I don't know. And, like, it makes me so happy that, like, he's, like, doing so amazing and, like, he's really come into himself in, like, a huge way and, yeah, we've just gotten a lot closer, I think. Especially since he's gone to college and been able to be himself in ways that he wasn't able to, I think in Chattanooga, but. Yeah. Yeah, families are fun. Okay, five minutes. Let me look at. I had some funny questions. Okay. Oh, this is a funny question.

[36:15] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay, pull it out.

[36:17] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: So. Okay. I'll wrap two of these together.

[36:24] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay.

[36:25] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Sorry. Something about you is that you have, like, an insane memory, which we were just talking about recently. You have the most insane memory of anyone I know. You remember everyone's name that I tell you. You remember every detail of everything, and it's true of everyone in your life, because then Allie was like, yes. So this is just equality that you have. Would you agree?

[36:50] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I would agree with that.

[36:52] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: So we were gonna talk about New.

[36:56] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: York a little bit.

[36:58] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: So I'm curious if you have a favorite memory from New York. It doesn't have to be with me, but just any memory calling you and.

[37:10] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Be mad if it was like, I.

[37:11] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Wouldn'T be mad if I was there. No, I'm kidding. No, but seriously, just like. But that's maybe, like, a deep cut that you can recall.

[37:19] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Wow, okay.

[37:21] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: That people will be like, whoa, she remembers that.

[37:24] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I don't think that's. Or sorry, just because if I'm choosing what to share, no one's gonna be like, whoa, she remembers that. I chose.

[37:31] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah, just your favorite. A favorite memory from New York. Sorry, I got weird with it.

[37:35] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And you got a lot there. Wow. Can I take a second to think about it?

[37:45] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Take a second to think about it.

[37:54] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Now I'm like, just, like, in my head, running through, like, a map of New York, like, saying of, like, places and being like, where was I? And how was I feeling when I, like, walked down this stream?

[38:04] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: But I'm sure it's all there, perfectly in your head, perfectly encapsulated. It could also be, like, a favorite place or, like, a favorite span of time or worst memory. Well.

[38:21] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Well, maybe not that. Maybe not today.

[38:25] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Maybe we won't go there.

[38:28] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, I guess I just really. This isn't a specific memory necessarily, but I love walking to Herbert von King around, like, 07:00 p.m. a park. That's like a ten minute walk from my apartment. And often with Allie, like, we'll just go on a little walk together and take in the people and the sights and do a couple laps around. And I feel like it's a good time to go because people are out of work and they're out in the park, but it's not dark yet, and they're playing music and chatting, and I don't know, I feel like I just go there so much that it's like, sometimes I go there with someone or to meet someone there, but often I'm there alone. And it's a really good place to observe people.

[39:27] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I would say, what's your favorite time of year to do that?

[39:34] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: I mean, I think it's, like, the most in the summer. It's the craziest. And that I think there will be times when the entire passive lawn, as it is called, is covered with people. But I think then it gets hard to observe because there's too many people, too much happening, too many dogs. But maybe, like, early fall, I would say. But also another. I'm thinking of another favorite memory, which was when I first moved here. It was in January, and it was when snow was still happening in New York. Snow was still falling, and there was a blizzard. And I walked from my apartment to my friend Hannah's apartment, and she has, like, you know, like, in her kitchen, you can open up the window, and then there's, like, a roof that's, like, below it, like, to the side, so you can crawl out onto, like, another building's roof, which is lower than her kitchen window.

[40:35] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yes. Okay. Yes, I see.

[40:37] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: And it was just, like, stacked in snow. And we built a snowman out there. And I feel like that was the last time it really snowed in New York. And that's something I miss about my life in general, because I feel like it doesn't really snow in Maine anymore either. In any real way. And, like, I miss, like, really being able to play in the snow, and that's the last time that it happened for me.

[41:04] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: This can be a perfect opportunity for you to go seek out snow.

[41:08] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah. I don't know.

[41:09] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: I mean, in a few months.

[41:10] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, maybe in a few months. I'm not quite ready for it yet.

[41:14] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Yeah.

[41:15] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Do you have a favorite memory you want to share from New York?

[41:20] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh. Hmm. Hmm. I wasn't prepared to be.

[41:28] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Yeah, well, I wasn't prepared either.

[41:29] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: The question back. Well, I'm trying to think of, like, I feel like I should say a fun memory with you because you're going away. I think a fun memory that I have with you is when we went to the hooray for the riff raff concert, and it was, like, right after, I think. Yeah. Or right before. Right after my very good friend Maya, who you've been mentioning, ally and Maya, sort of like, my alley, our roommates, who were also our dear, dear, dear friends. She was about to leave New York, and I was, like, thinking a lot about, like, friendship and community here, and it was so nice to, like, spend time with you and Allie in that space. And now that music has, like, become one of my, like, favorite albums of this year, and I listen to it all the time.

[42:33] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: So much. I'm seeing them tomorrow.

[42:36] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: What?

[42:37] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: They're giving a talk.

[42:39] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, my God. Where? Okay.

[42:41] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: National sawdust.

[42:43] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[42:44] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay. Well, that's exciting. Yeah.

[42:51] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: They're just so cool. And it was just so fun to be there with you guys and crying in the balcony. Crying in the balcony sobbing in the balcony and then we went and got that really good korean food that you just, like, found, and it was, like, so delicious. It was just, like, such a beautiful night, and I was like, it's so nice to, like, have these people here, even if other people are leaving and now you're leaving, too, but.

[43:17] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Okay. But it's. Everything in my life is a little bit, like, who knows? I could be back soon.

[43:26] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: But that was really fun. And anyways, thanks for coming in.

[43:31] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: Alex, thank you for inviting me into the booth.

[43:34] CHAPIN MONTAGUE: Of course. Any time.

[43:38] ALEX JHAMB BURNS: All right.