Alexandra Martinez and Michelle Vallejo

[00:08] ALEXANDRA: Hi. My name is Alexandra. I'm 28 years old. The date is May 22, 2022. I'm in the storyCorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with Michelle, my one small step conversation partner. Hi, michelle. Nice to meet you.

[00:23] MICHELLE: Nice to meet you. Hi. My name is Michelle. I'm 40 years old. The date is May 22, 2022. I am in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth. I'm here with Alexandra, my one step conversation partner.

[00:41] ALEXANDRA: Why did you want to do this interview today?

[00:44] MICHELLE: I have no idea. I don't know. I feel like it came up in my feed, and I listened to a couple of stories on storycorps. I thought it was cool, and I pursued it, but it was a few months ago, so a lot has happened since then, so I don't know why I did. Why did you?

[01:05] ALEXANDRA: I actually. I attend college currently. So someone came out to our classroom and kind of told us about the whole ordeal, and, you know, she played a couple of the stories for me, and I thought it was really cool, you know, to get to. I'm all about meeting new people. I love meeting new people, especially since, you know, I'm a. I'm a mom, mostly stay at home mom. I'm currently going back to school so I can get my degree to further my education and career, but. So I like meeting new people, probably because I'm mostly a shut in now. So it kind of stood out to me. I was like, oh, you know, I could still be at home, but I can meet someone new, maybe make a friend.

[01:46] MICHELLE: Right on. How old your child or children?

[01:49] ALEXANDRA: I have three. My youngest just turned one in April, and then I have a seven year old, and I have a nine year old.

[01:58] MICHELLE: Oh, my. Okay, so you're in the thick of it. You're in the good part.

[02:01] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah.

[02:03] MICHELLE: So my son, he is 22 now. He is. He's the light of my life. He's everything. I'm so proud of him. But I'm definitely going through that whole empty nester thing. So he stayed with me until he was. He was about 21, and then he decided that he was going to move out, and I didn't really know what to do with that. However, I kind of chose to just take a chance and instead of wallowing in the my lack of home, I guess, because I don't know how to cook for myself. I don't know how to, like, clean for myself. Like, I just know how to do, like, a home where there's multiple people that I have to cook for and clean for and do all that. I chose to transfer to northern California from southern California, and now I'm up here by myself, and it's. It's been interesting. But as far as being a mom and wanting to advance your career and somehow still make social connections, I respect that. I love that for you.

[03:21] ALEXANDRA: Oh, thank you so much. I was actually just going over. Back over your bio also, but, yeah, let's. Oh, my gosh. I can't even imagine not having my kids around me. I think I'd go insane.

[03:34] MICHELLE: It's crazy.

[03:36] ALEXANDRA: I give you so much credit on that. But I was looking back at your bio, and I noticed it had. If you don't mind me reading it real quick, it said, you know, you said, hello, you told me your name, that you're approaching 40, and you were raised by your grandparents, or Kennedy or Democrats, your grandparents in southern California. It says with that, I've been liberal into adulthood. Within the last six years, however, I've become very centrist. I'm not gonna lie. I had to look up that word, sorry, culminating in my being an outside in the post pandemic political sphere. Yeah, that was. I believe that's very hard. The post pandemic. Everything is just crazy. This is. Despite moving to northern California in the last few months, it's like living in a new country that I completely agree. I have. Oh, it's so crazy. Everything is crazy with the post pandemic.

[04:34] MICHELLE: Where. Where are you located? What is your. Your region?

[04:37] ALEXANDRA: I am currently living in Fresno, California.

[04:40] MICHELLE: Okay. Are you from northern California?

[04:43] ALEXANDRA: I'm.

[04:44] MICHELLE: Yes.

[04:44] ALEXANDRA: So I was actually. You know, it's funny because I was born in Immokalee, Florida. And then my mother brought me to Salinas, California, which is right next to, I would say, monterey. And I was raised there.

[04:59] MICHELLE: Okay.

[05:00] ALEXANDRA: I moved to Fresno when I was about, like, right before I hit my teen years, like, 1213. And I've been here since then.

[05:10] MICHELLE: Okay.

[05:11] ALEXANDRA: And yourself?

[05:13] MICHELLE: I was born in Denver, Colorado, and I moved to southern California when I was two weeks old. As I said, my grandparents raised me, so my mom. My dad was in jail. My mom had me. She pretty much dropped me off at my grandparents house and then took off. So I was raised in SoCal. I mean, even my voice, I know that I have an accent. Everyone that I encounter up here tells me that I have an accent. So I'm very much a socal girl. I don't know. There's been a lot. There's been a lot in my life.

[05:56] ALEXANDRA: I actually am very familiar with the. Being raised by grandparents, although I kind of had my mom, she had me at a very young age, so she was still trying to kind of be out at the time my dad died when I was very little, so which is the reason why, I guess, my mom kind of brought me out here at first or brought me to where we lived in the, you know, in the Bay area.

[06:21] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[06:21] ALEXANDRA: And like I said, she was. She was, like, 14, so she still very young, kind of had to either work or wanted to be out. So I was raised by my grandparents initially as well. And then I got a stepdad, or, well, I call him my dad. He's the closest thing I've known. He's also been in jail since I was young, so very familiar with that.

[06:46] MICHELLE: How are you? Do you have family in Florida still or no?

[06:50] ALEXANDRA: Yes. Actually, I did not know I still had family out there for the longest time. I was unaware of any of that. My mom wasn't very comfortable and open with me talking to them. I remember, I think one year for my birthday, they sent me something, and since that time, I hadn't talked to them again. And just maybe two years ago, two or three, I guess, one of my relatives found me on Facebook and kind of reached out to me.

[07:20] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[07:22] ALEXANDRA: And it was crazy, you know, I didn't even know how many relatives I had. I had so much family out there that I was unaware of. And I have a half brother out there, a bunch of nieces and nephews, sister.

[07:36] MICHELLE: It's wild, right?

[07:37] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah, it was crazy. I try to keep in touch sometimes, but, you know, it's hard. They have their lives. If I have mine, as much as I would love to meet them, it's kind of. It's difficult.

[07:50] MICHELLE: Yeah, I get that. I actually found out I had an older sister. I thought that of the group. So I've got my biological father and my biological mother, and they both had multiple children amongst themselves over the years. I thought I was the oldest, and because of ancestry DNA, I found out that I had an older sister, a half sister.

[08:13] ALEXANDRA: Oh, wow. That's. I thought I was the oldest, too. I have an older half brother, and then I have my two younger half brothers, but they were raised with me. I kind of raised them since I was, like, eight because, you know, I needed to watch out for them while my mom was at work and trying to support the family and stuff like that, so. Yeah. And my older of the two youngest brothers, he just turned 22. So I understand where you said when you were talking about your son. I was like, oh, my gosh, my brother, the babies. Yes, those are my first babies. I don't care. My husband still stuff, he still tells me, he's like, they're not babies. I'm like, yes, they are. You don't understand.

[08:59] MICHELLE: It's weird how, you know, families kind of step in and step up when. When they need to and. And how that kind of develops us as humans.

[09:10] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah, it's crazy. I. I don't even know how to explain it now. People are like, oh, you. You have kids and don't you wanna. Cuz I have, like, cousins who are the same age as me and they have their kids, but they're still not, you know, I'm like a shut in mom. I don't know how else to explain it. I want to be with my kids all the time, and I want to, like, I'm so funny. I like to watch kids movies with them, and they're like, don't you ever want to just go out by yourself? I'm like, yeah, of course, but who's going to watch them? Who's going to watch them the way I watch them? That's what it is.

[09:56] MICHELLE: Well, the funny thing is, I feel like when my son was younger, because I had him so young, I had him about a month after I graduated from high school, and I graduated early because I found out right after junior prom that I was pregnant. And so I went to summer school and I accelerated the whole thing, and I graduated early, did that whole thing. I mean, just because, I don't know, like, I feel like I already had this stigma based on my own parents background that I just. I didn't want to be a statistic. And I was. I was. I don't know. I don't know what I was doing, but I did that. And, like, after I had him, I was the only one in my friend group who had a kid because everybody's literally going to college. And so, like, a lot of friends fell off. Like, the friends who don't have kids, like, they just are like, oof, you're too much. I can't deal with you.

[10:53] ALEXANDRA: Yeah, that was the issue with me. I. I got married at 18. I had my first kid, like, the year after.

[11:02] MICHELLE: At least you did it legit. You did the right thing. I had the baby, then I got married. So it was baby at 18, marriage at 19. So you got it right.

[11:11] ALEXANDRA: I'm so proud of you. She's like, just that alone. I was like, oh, yeah. You know, I was like, if it was my choice, I would have waited a little while. I mean, I waited three months, but that's not a whole lot of time. But, yeah, it's. I did. Yeah, you're right. I did lose a lot of friends because, you know, at that age, everybody does want the experiences, and they want to, you know, come into their own and learn things. And I was just. I was ready to have my baby and be a mom. I mean, I had technically already raised two, so I was like, oh, you know, I got it.

[11:47] MICHELLE: Yeah, you got this. I feel like at the time, it was torn. Like, there was a part of me that was still very much, like, drawn towards, like, I had a very clear plan as far as college went and, like, my life plan, and it was just very steadfast. And then there was this whole other, like, romantic, I don't know, thing about me at that age where I was like, no. Yes. Like, we're going to do this. I love him. I love this baby. We're gonna make a life together. It's gonna be amazing. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. However, I feel like he's probably one of my closest friends. My ex husband, my son's father. Just because we grew up together and we experienced that, we lost friends. We dealt with our families independently because, you know, we both came from catholic backgrounds, and our families were very. They had very staunch ideas about what we needed to do. And I think it was a life experience. The only thing that I worry about is that I feel like my son, he could have done with better parents. We really did do the best we could under the circumstances, but I feel like he deserved more. And I think that probably stopped me from having more kids, because I was just like, if I can't give him everything that he deserves, how can I have more children? Like, how can I give. Because now I'm, like, 40, and this poor kid's 22, and it's, you know, maybe I'm at a place where I could potentially, like, adopt or even do IVH or whatever the shit that's called.

[13:27] ALEXANDRA: I'm sorry.

[13:28] MICHELLE: I'm sorry. But still, like, it's just. I can't imagine giving anyone a better life than I tried to give him. And it's just like this struggle of. It's almost like I am living with guilt.

[13:43] ALEXANDRA: Oh, my goodness. I thought that was only me. That is such a breath of fresh air. I constantly do that. I mean, I'm on my third kid, technically, I guess you could say five. And I'm always living with guilt. I'm like, oh, they could. They could have so much better, I swear, if they had a different parent who is more. More this and less this and more this and more that. I can't. I so get you. I think it's so funny because, you know, I thought, too, because you took, you said that you and your husband knew each other and you grew up together, and me and my husband only knew each other for maybe three months before we got married.

[14:27] MICHELLE: It's probably perfect.

[14:29] ALEXANDRA: It was so, it was so crazy and so hard. It happened so fast. And I think that it's so wonderful to hear somebody say, you know, it. It doesn't matter whether you kind of know each other or whether you have or haven't, because it helps me, you know, like, it's okay, right? It wouldn't have made a difference because that's. That's some of the things that, you know, I constantly debate about, like, well, you know, maybe I could have. We could have been better if we knew each other a little bit. It would have made it a little better for us and our kids. But, you know, thank you for that. I appreciate that.

[15:11] MICHELLE: I'm glad that helped because I feel like, you know, that it doesn't. I don't know that it really matters after all of these years of me, like, kind of internalizing and lots of therapy and all that stuff. Right. I. It's more of you're raised and you're trying to, like, set these goals for yourself, and you have a certain ideal of what your adult life is going to look like, and then life actually happens.

[15:40] ALEXANDRA: Yes. That's what happened with my, my most recent daughter. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm in the middle of school and I just got pregnant.

[15:49] MICHELLE: But you make it work, right?

[15:51] ALEXANDRA: Yes.

[15:51] MICHELLE: This is just, this is, this is something that's meant to be. This is exactly not by accident, so.

[15:58] ALEXANDRA: Don'T worry about that guilt thing. If you ever do decide to have another kid, that is a constant thing. That's a constant fear of, I'm sorry. Probably every parent at one point or another will think, you know, my baby deserves better, or my kids, you know, I'm sure something else, I could have done something more, or I did this wrong, because, you know, there is no one way scope of really being a parent or a person, for that matter. So we all learn, I think that's how I feel about it. Like, we all learn based on our own life and twists and turns that we have to, to deal with them the best way we can.

[16:36] MICHELLE: And also just being able to connect with people who get it right.

[16:39] ALEXANDRA: Exactly.

[16:40] MICHELLE: Which is a hard part.

[16:42] ALEXANDRA: It's so hard. And especially with the post pandemic, nobody wants to talk no more. Everybody's.

[16:48] MICHELLE: Well, if they do, they want to tell you what's up.

[16:51] ALEXANDRA: Exactly. They want to tell you, oh, you're doing this wrong. That is not okay. You. You can't be parenting like that. That's not how you're supposed to do that. You got.

[16:59] MICHELLE: Right.

[16:59] ALEXANDRA: Do it this way. Like, I understand, you know, certain things, they make a little more sense. Okay. But if that's the way that you want to parent, then go ahead, you know, more power to you. I mean, I'll take your advice. Yeah. But don't get mad if I'm not using it, putting it into action, because the end of the day, that's a my child, and I want to raise them the way that benefits them, because I know and see my child on a day to day, you know?

[17:26] MICHELLE: Yeah, I agree. I feel like a lot of people, like, everyone feels like they have the best idea about how to move forward, whether it be about child rearing or the economy. Anything in the world right now is just up for debate, and everybody has a very strong stance on it.

[17:43] ALEXANDRA: Exactly. Can't people just accept everybody for who they are and what they want to be? Like, people, you have to be black and white. Exactly. Like, they don't want gray on their hand. Like, there's. There's not even a little bit of the gray area. Like, can't they just be, like, a little bit of. It's okay. Like. Right. Yeah. You know, that person. Okay. But this person still, too. No, it's like, no, they're wrong. They're right. This is okay. This is not. I'm. That's probably why I stay in my house.

[18:17] MICHELLE: And it's really why I stay off of, like, social media. Like, I am so. I haven't had a facebook since 2012. I'm like, that's almost a badge of honor for me. Like, I love telling people that they. They look at me like I'm crazy.

[18:31] ALEXANDRA: That is amazing. Honestly, if I hadn't been in contact with my family, I probably wouldn't have kept it this long. One of the reasons I go, I am so serious. My husband was laughing at me because he was like, what are you always looking at? Because I do go on there, but it's not for the reasons you think. I love watching the shows where they just, like, make food in front of you and they organize everything. I have OCD, so I cop to that. I love it. So I actually love watching where they, like, put everything in the jars and organize the fridge and the pantry, and I watch all of the little shows where they, like, make tiny food or they make food. I like watching the little crafts that they do. My husband's like, this is in your feed. What are you doing all day? I'm, like, just watching that.

[19:24] MICHELLE: I have no idea what you're talking about. Like, none of this makes any sense to me because I have never seen any of it. I do have OCD, so, like, I can appreciate that you like the organization of it, but I don't. I don't know what tiny food is. I don't. I don't have any idea.

[19:38] ALEXANDRA: It's funny because all they're doing is cooking, but they make it in the smaller food. Like, they make really small portions of food, like, little, like, doll food, but it's real. And they use, like, little, tiny, like, stoves and stuff.

[19:54] MICHELLE: But why?

[19:56] ALEXANDRA: I don't know. I. My daughter hooked me on it, to be honest. She was like, oh, look, mom. I was like, what the heck is this? And I started watching it from there. I thought it was so funny because I was like, wow, that looks like a real burger. Hmm.

[20:13] MICHELLE: I might. Yeah, I might have to google this. This might be a thing in my life, but, oh, my goodness.

[20:18] ALEXANDRA: That's the only reason I go on there, though. I. Everything else is just always such a fight. I'm like, oh, my goodness, you guys just. You can't comment. Like, oh, that's so pretty. Or, look at how cute. It's like, oh, well, that's wrong. You shouldn't do that. Or I do, like, little videos about, you know, because I have kids, so sometimes I exhaust all of my options for what they want to eat, and I'm like, oh, let me look something up. So I have gone and tried to look up, you know, lunch videos and little, because they do a lot of lunch videos on there. One of them will pop up, and it's like, they're so. They're so mean in the comments. Like, that's not healthy for your child. Like, that's not this for your child. Like, uh huh. Leave the kid alone. The kid's gonna eat what they're gonna eat anyway. Like, you haven't popped in, you know, ate a couple m and m's or a fruit roll up when nobody's looking. Like, you eat cookies, too. Come on.

[21:15] MICHELLE: Well, it's all the same people. You realize that the people that are posting this stuff, you know, symphomoniously are the same people who were potentially raised with the same things that you and I were raised with, where they live, for sure. Were they watching Rocco's modern life when they got home from school? 100% they were.

[21:39] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah.

[21:39] MICHELLE: These same people are the ones who are just, like, getting up on their pedestals, being like, you need to grow a microgarden, and then you need to.

[21:48] ALEXANDRA: Blend that into a baby food, organic, and it has to be with no sugar and no peanuts. And you know what? If you want to be organic and healthy, no sugar, no peanuts, that's cool. But don't judge me because I want to scarf down a cupcake, all right?

[22:02] MICHELLE: And because my kids don't have the allergies that maybe your kids have eating weird stuff. Don't be mad at us because we have cupcakes on birthdays. Like, don't.

[22:14] ALEXANDRA: Yes, definitely.

[22:17] MICHELLE: When did that become a thing? Because I, like, when I was growing up, my mom was a freak. My mom was a freak of nature, God rest her soul. Like, this woman had no problem with putting celery sticks with peanut butter and sprinkles on a fucking or, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. A freaking platter. And taking it to, like, third grade class, right, for my birthday and wondered why I didn't have friends like celery with peanut butter. Mom, like, why are you doing this? And so, like, I loved everyone else's birthdays because their moms brought, like, cupcakes and, like, cakes and pastries and all this stuff. Fast forward to my son. Yeah, my son. Like, I'm raising my son and I'm like, I'm so excited because I'm like, I'm going to bring the best cupcakes. But then his generation was more along the lines of like, well, there's allergies.

[23:06] ALEXANDRA: Yeah, you can't deal with that with my three right now. They're like, oh, you can't bring anything nut based. It has to be healthy or organic or something.

[23:16] MICHELLE: Or prepackaged.

[23:17] ALEXANDRA: Yeah. Pre packaged everything. Now it has to be pre packaged, and you can't hand anything out without a glove. And it has to have a seal on it. And I'm like, okay, you know kids, right? But, like, yeah, that's definite. I'm so sad because I never got to experience birthdays, you know, like, that. I. My birthday's on Christmas Eve, so. Oh, I feel like everybody got the best parts of having a birthday and being able to be. Have a day to yourself. Like, even now, if I were to have a birthday, I would kind of have everybody kind of guilt me, like, oh, you're not coming for Christmas to the family, to see the family. You guys aren't going to bring the kids to open gifts. I'm like, all I want to do is put my feet up.

[24:01] MICHELLE: You're like, it's my birthday, you guys.

[24:05] ALEXANDRA: Like, even if I do have, like, a little birthday, it has to be for a couple hours because family is expecting you. You know what I mean? And then when you're little, you don't see any of your friends on your Christmas Eve because it's like, oh, we're going on vacation. So. But it's so crazy.

[24:21] MICHELLE: Or even just having a birthday in December where people are, like, trying to budget for Christmas.

[24:26] ALEXANDRA: Exactly.

[24:27] MICHELLE: You get a gift.

[24:30] ALEXANDRA: I was, yeah, I was supposed to go to the, we were supposed to go to a cabin this last year, and I was so excited. I was like, yes, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it, blah, blah, blah. Then everybody kind of backed out last minute. I was like, you know what? That's so mean. But, you know, I'm going to turn 30 next year and I'm going, whether people want to or not, I'm going to go and I'm going to steal my kids and I'm going to turn off my phone so I don't have any guilt.

[24:58] MICHELLE: Excellent. Okay. So if you were comfortable, could you both talk a little bit about how being a mom has changed your view on the world? Okay.

[25:07] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah. You can go first this time.

[25:10] MICHELLE: Okay. I feel like being a mom has chilled me out. I feel like, you know, I think that when he was younger and I was, I was younger, he was younger. I think I was a little bit more fierce and unwilling to listen to people around me because I just, I felt very protective and all knowing over my child, despite my lack of wisdom. As time progressed and I introduced people into the fold, and it takes a village, in my opinion.

[25:46] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah, that's true.

[25:49] MICHELLE: You have your family, but you choose the people that are around you. And after that, I feel like raising my son was just, it was that much easier. I say that loosely because raising a kid is never easy, but it just, I think it softened me. I feel like having a child and rearing him for all those years, it kind of takes you away from your own, their own rhetoric in your brain, and it forces you to kind of look outside. And I think it may be softer and more willing to accept other people's perspectives.

[26:29] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah. I totally agree on that, because, you know, with my first child, I I guess I could say that I was more scared and nervous about everything. I was very, like, oh, my gosh, you know, what am I gonna do?

[26:44] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[26:45] ALEXANDRA: And I think I was, like, kind of open to taking suggestions because she was my first daughter, and I was like, you know, I want it. I want to do this right. I had so many issues the way I was brought up myself, and I've been through a lot of turmoil growing up and, you know, some life altering issues. But I didn't want anything like that to happen to my daughter, and it kind of caused me to be overprotective and anxious about everything and untrusting. So I needed advice, and I would take everybody's advice and try to put it all into play, and that. I think that messed me up. Yes.

[27:25] MICHELLE: He's trying to take everything and throw it in a mixing bowl and just swish it around.

[27:29] ALEXANDRA: Yes. So that was, like, my first year, and, I mean, with my younger brothers, I had to raise them. Yes, I took care of them, but they had a mom, so she was the one that had to make, you know, the big decisions. And when I became a mom myself, I finally realized how big those decisions were.

[27:48] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[27:49] ALEXANDRA: So after my first daughter, you know, when she started getting a little older, I kind of started getting the hang of, well, you know, I'm her mom. I can actually decide that. Like, I can actually say, you know, whether I want her to do those things or I want her to have those type of relationships in her life or whether I think these people should be in and out of our life, or I want her to be brought up the way that I was brought up or not. And then when I had my other two children, I think it just. It really changes with every child. You either become more loose about it or you become more possessive. I think I became my own person. I could say that they helped me become my own person because I was very, very different from the person I am today. I can say that so openly. And everybody who has met me previously to when I had kids and meets me now, like, says, wow, you're completely different. You did a whole, you know, 180, and I don't know who you are anymore. I I wouldn't say I was very wild when I was in high school. I think I was just more open. I was very adventurous. Like, I just. I I liked meeting new people, and I liked going and hanging out with other different kinds of people. I had older friends. I had younger friends. I had friends that, you know, already worked. I had friends that drove, I had friends that drank. I had friends that I didn't even know. And they come up to me like, oh, hi, you're this person. My friend knows you from this place. I was like, oh, yeah, hi. That's when it was safe to actually know strangers, you know.

[29:32] MICHELLE: I didn't know that I had that experience.

[29:35] ALEXANDRA: It's just so different now. I'm. I'm so different. I'm like, oh, you know, who's that? I gotta. I gotta make sure that my babies were okay, and I gotta make sure that I'm like this. So that way I can have this impression on my kids that, you know, they know, no matter what, they can make mistakes. But then their mom's always here, but also that their mom is still a human being. I tried to find the middle ground, so it did change a lot of things, I think, you know, being a mom helped me to tone things down. And I'm actually. I was actually, like you said earlier, brought up within a catholic household. So that is also what my grandparents were kind of raised as, but they were like the spanish ones. So it was kind of way different from what I was used to when I became my own person. I started going to a church where they were. It was an apostolic church, so it was really different from what I was brought up as.

[30:42] MICHELLE: I don't know what that is.

[30:44] ALEXANDRA: They believe in the apostles doctrine, so the teachings of Jesus, basically, they go by the word of God, and Jesus is one God, which is the belief that I have now. And they believe in baptism and the Holy Ghost. So that really did change my view on things, mostly because that's the only time I've ever felt a real connection to something other than myself. You know, it was really spiritual for me, and I think that that in itself was. Has been a big part of helping me raise my kids, because I can actually take the time I need to. I would say, like, you know, mothers, we. I don't want to speak for every mother, but I would. I'd get frustrated and not know how to handle it, and sometimes I would just cry. But I think being able to pray really helped me as a mother, because it's actually just taking time with yourself to help you understand yourself and why you're really frustrated. And that helped me a lot.

[32:03] MICHELLE: I'd agree with that. I really would. I don't identify specifically with any particular religion these days, just because.

[32:16] ALEXANDRA: It'S so different now. I don't know. I don't want to say that I'm, you know, actually, I'm apostolic, Pentecostal Christian, but mostly because I believe in the Bible. And that's the only reason that I identify with that, because they believe in that. But I do not believe in the politics of religion. I don't believe in that. I don't believe you should control people or try to say whether they go to heaven or hell, or whether there is one or isn't or. I don't judge people because everyone is different and nobody really knows whether this is the right way or the wrong way or what it is. I believe in, what I know, what I can read, and what's substantiable, basically.

[33:09] MICHELLE: No, I respect that, actually. I was raised Irish Catholic, so it's very similar to Hispanic Catholic. It's all Roman Catholicism. And it was very much driven by my dad's side of the family. My mom was more of like, listen, if you're a good person and you live a good life, you're gonna go to heaven. Don't trip. I kind of have lived by that my whole adult life. I've looked into other religions, I've dated people in other religions, I've read books on other religions. I have a hard time with organized religion just because I feel like somewhere betwixt the two or the multiples, right, is the answer, is the truth. And I do. I feel like there's. I feel like a spiritualism, and I feel like that's just so passe at this point to say, but I'm not an atheist. I feel like I'm agnostic. I feel like there's a higher power. I feel like nothing is just by chance. I feel like it's more than just a big bang, however, I can't really put my finger on it, but there's something about people who have strong faith that I admire. Like, there's something about it that I'm just like, oof. I wish that I could wrap my brain around it, because it just feels like it would put me at ease a little bit. Because, like you said, there's times as a mother, there's times as an employee, there's times as a partner, there's times as a sister, daughter, all of these things that you're just like, what do I do? How do I fix this? There's so much going on, and it would be, it would be so nice to be able to just let that go. I feel, at my age, I have not found that yet, but there is something I do enjoy going to church.

[35:11] ALEXANDRA: Me as well. I go every Sunday with my children. I try to go more often, but, you know, having a toddler, it's a little more difficult. I was going before I had my daughter, but now we. I'm kind of thankful a little bit. No, I'm not thankful to the pandemic. I'm thankful about some of the outcomes because of it.

[35:32] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[35:33] ALEXANDRA: That our church was able to, you know, do things online. It's very helpful when you're stressed out and you can't get there, but you really want to be there and you need to hear that. Uplifting.

[35:45] MICHELLE: Exactly.

[35:46] ALEXANDRA: Yeah. It's wonderful to be able to be home and listen to that right when you need it, right when you least expect it. It really gets me through the rest of the week to be able to be like, oh, my goodness. I really got that. I'm so thankful. You know, I can use that to help me through the rest of the week, and I can make it another day and I can get to next time.

[36:08] MICHELLE: So, another interesting fact that I'm going to just, like, throw this in there. So I'm a lesbian, and my son is gay.

[36:15] ALEXANDRA: Oh, wow. My brother is gay. My. My younger. Of the two younger brothers, the youngest one, he's gay. Uh, he's been gay for, like, a couple of years, and when he came out, we were like, oh, yeah, we already know that.

[36:31] MICHELLE: Like, we. We done known.

[36:32] ALEXANDRA: Yeah.

[36:33] MICHELLE: Okay.

[36:34] ALEXANDRA: I think it's so crazy that, you know, organized religion is really against a lot of that. I think that, well, like, they don't allow people to be themselves and understand themselves and just be okay. They're very. Oh, my goodness. I was so hurt when my brother came to visit our church one time, and he was very judged, and mostly because of what he was wearing, and I was very, very hurt because I I do not like when people judge people, especially because he was really young at the time. He was only, I want to say, like, in his teens, early teens, 1112, you know, they're. They're still trying to figure out who they are. They're experimenting. They're trying to find their way. And instead of, you know, being encouraging and uplifting, you're gonna condemn him for something he doesn't even know is really right for him. Right. And I was just so hurt by that. I was like, oh, my goodness. You cannot just be. Be. You can't be like that because you hurt people. You don't know the type of effect you can have. It could be positive, it could be negative, but congratulations.

[37:44] MICHELLE: That's.

[37:45] ALEXANDRA: That's wonderful to hear. And, you know, well, I wasn't expecting.

[37:49] MICHELLE: You to say congratulations, but I just, I did want to, like, integrate that into the conversation as, you know, this is a perspective that, you know, we have for me.

[38:00] ALEXANDRA: I think it's always wonderful when people, like, get to know themselves. I want to congratulate everybody. I congratulated my brother, and he was like, for what I was like, because you know who you are. You know what? You, you know, you're. You're in tune with yourself. Like, it took me so long to be in tune with myself, I didn't even know I was a person. I thought I was just a mom.

[38:22] MICHELLE: Well, that, too, in itself. Like, when I, you know, I was raised very catholic, went to catholic school, went to an all girls high school. Like, it was very, I mean, I guess looking back, that makes a lot more sense now. But that's a whole other joke for a whole nother time. But, like, it, for me, like, when I thought about my future, it was like I was going to check boxes. I was going to go to college. I was going to graduate. I was going to marry my husband in a catholic ceremony, catholic mass wedding, right in a beautiful cathedral. And I would have, like, the whole thing, and we would have children, and we would baptize them, and it would be this whole thing. However, like, once I hit, like, 28, I realized, holy. Holy gosh. Like, I can't, like, this isn't my life. Like, this isn't my life. And it kind of bummed me out, I think, for a long time where I was like, okay, so I can fall in love and I can have this great relationship with someone, but, like, I can't check these boxes because literally, we can't check these boxes. And so I started getting more involved in the.

[39:29] ALEXANDRA: Oh, God.

[39:30] MICHELLE: What?

[39:30] ALEXANDRA: It's.

[39:30] MICHELLE: What's it called? I can't remember it right now. Not evangelical. It starts with an e, and it's very close to Catholicism.

[39:42] ALEXANDRA: Evangelism.

[39:44] MICHELLE: No, no, no, it's. Hold on, let me grab my phone. Episcopalian.

[39:52] ALEXANDRA: Oh, okay.

[39:53] MICHELLE: And it was so they've had, like, gay archbishops, they've had lesbian archbishop. Like, it's more open, but it's very, like, catholicism based. And I kind of loved that. But at the same time, it's what you were saying is, like, you know, you have to be able to, like, get there. You have to get your family there. You have to do all these things. And so I feel like maybe that might be something I'm willing to, like, look into more up here by myself if I can potentially do it via Internet. Like, I'm not even comfortable, obviously, with, like, being on camera with you guys. And it's like, I'm just. I'm a weird person like that.

[40:35] ALEXANDRA: I think I'm more comfortable with it because I have to do it all the time for my kids. So it's okay. I just felt like today, you know, I'm. I'm meeting someone for the first time. I might as well be open about, you know, who I really am and being a mom and the gist of it, basically. How old was your son when he came out to you?

[40:58] MICHELLE: Oh, so sorry. My son was twelve. I want to say he was twelve, but we knew before that. So when Trent was about three or four years old, he would put on my heels and, like, put on my dresses and he would, like.

[41:14] ALEXANDRA: That was the same thing with my brother.

[41:16] MICHELLE: He would do, like, this whole thing. And his. His alter ego was Trentina. My son's name is Trent, and he would say that he was Trentina, and he did this whole thing, and we all adored him. Like, he was just. He was magic. Then once he got to second grade, he got bullied at the bus stop where they were calling him names. And me and his stepmother were ready to, like, go fight parents.

[41:42] ALEXANDRA: Uh huh. I'm sorry. I'm the type that's like, you know what? You want to be messy with my kid? I'm gonna fight you, too. Yeah, you bring your mom and, you know, you could both come. We'll be there.

[41:52] MICHELLE: It's. No, that's exactly how me and his stepmom were. We're just like, we're not playing this game with you guys. And so we kind of got really, like, insulated with him, and we. I feel like we kind of. We let him, you know, shine his light, but at the same time, we kind of taught him to, I don't know, maybe assimilate a little bit. But by the time he was about twelve, there was just no going back. And then he went when he was 16 and he had the whole conversation with me when he had his first boyfriend about how they were intimate. Oh, my God. Just tears. Tears coming down. Not because it's your kid being gay, it's more of your kid is turning into an adult.

[42:40] ALEXANDRA: Yeah, like, that's the first time. It's either way. You know what I mean? It's gonna be. Oh, I don't even want to.

[42:47] MICHELLE: Yeah, no, just tears. Just know. Remember my voice when I say just tears.

[42:52] ALEXANDRA: Oh, my goodness. I don't want to. That's, like, three years away from my oldest. I'm like, no, she's already. Oh, okay. Oh, goodness.

[43:06] MICHELLE: I don't know. I feel like the most rewarding thing that I could have ever accomplished in my lifetime is this. I feel that the reason I was put on this planet was to be his mom.

[43:17] ALEXANDRA: I think so too. I mean, there's times where I doubt like that myself. Maybe they could be having something better, you know? They deserve better. They could be better if there was more. But I've just. I know my life would not have meant as much without them in it. It would not be even a fraction of how wonderful it is without them.

[43:43] MICHELLE: Yeah.

[43:45] ALEXANDRA: Oh, my gosh. I'm having so much fun talking seriously. This is, like, one of the best conversations I've had.

[43:52] MICHELLE: How are we gonna be friends, Julia? How do we stay friends? Is that a thing?

[43:55] ALEXANDRA: Yes. We need a real, real, you know, text messaging, phone call. I'm good. I'm ready for this, because this sounds so fun. This is.

[44:11] MICHELLE: It sounds so funny in your background too, because it sounds like your husband is, like, managing the house while you're doing your thing. It's so cute.

[44:18] ALEXANDRA: It's, like, the first time, so it's new.

[44:23] MICHELLE: He hasn't buckled yet. He sounds like he's still calm in his voice. He hasn't started to crack yet. So you're still good.

[44:29] ALEXANDRA: I know. I'm so happy. I'm so proud. I'm like, oh, they're all doing so wonderful right now.

[44:34] MICHELLE: It's.

[44:34] ALEXANDRA: It's. It's a hand clap right there.

[44:37] MICHELLE: Good job, guys.

[44:38] ALEXANDRA: So does your son still live close to you?

[44:41] MICHELLE: He doesn't. He lives in Rancho Cucamonga, which is in southern California.

[44:45] ALEXANDRA: Oh, wow. And you live where?

[44:47] MICHELLE: Right now I'm in Sacramento. I'm in downtown Sacramento.

[44:50] ALEXANDRA: Oh. I have not been there since I was, like, a teen. I've been. My husband and I have been wanting to visit more recently with our kids, and we're like, hmm. We have to plan that because he wants. He lived there for a little bit. He wants to take me to a bunch of places. I only went there for, like, two months, and I went there with my aunt. It was fun, but I only really got to go to the, like, the grocery store.

[45:13] MICHELLE: There's a lot more fun things going on here other than grocery stores. But if you ever. Guys. If you guys want to come up, I could take you to the grocery store. It's fine.

[45:21] ALEXANDRA: I mean, if you have any other, you know, like sightseeing things. That sounds even more wonderful. You know, for sure a couple of family places that you want to recommend. That would be great.

[45:31] MICHELLE: I've got some hiking spots that are great for families.

[45:34] ALEXANDRA: That would be so awesome. I've been. We're like a very outdoors family. All my girls love to be outdoors.

[45:41] MICHELLE: Perfect. This is a great area. Like, especially in the Delta area down where I work. It's perfect.

[45:47] ALEXANDRA: Oh, really? Wow. I. I think he told me about the area previously. I not sure. I'm pretty sure we marked it on the map somewhere. He's more good with them. He's better with the maps and all of that. So I'd have to ask. So is there anything about me today that surprised you? Like, were you expecting me to be so crazy?

[46:10] MICHELLE: No, I didn't have any expectations at all. And I feel like maybe I was cheating a little bit because I could see you prior to. So I didn't have any expectations. I could look, I could have purple hair for all, you know. But, like, I don't, um. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. Not really.

[46:26] ALEXANDRA: I didn't really have any expectations. I was just, like, kind of excited. I was like, hey, you know what? I get to meet somebody today. That's awesome. I get to talk to someone for a little while, someone who's not like my mom. Oh, goodness. Yeah. My mom, I had told her about it. She's like, oh, you're gonna go have a conversation with somebody who's not me for that long for what my mom is like now. My best friend, so it's so funny. I think it's just such a. Such a funny thing to me.

[46:55] MICHELLE: She's like, oh, it's amazing how that happens, right? Like, you get to a certain age and all of a sudden your parents aren't as crazy as you think you thought they were before.

[47:03] ALEXANDRA: Exactly. It's like, I understand why you did that now. And I'm sorry, you know?

[47:07] MICHELLE: Yeah, I'm sorry 100%.

[47:11] ALEXANDRA: Exactly. Oh, my goodness.

[47:13] MICHELLE: I actually, I have that relationship with my mother in law now because my mom passed away in 2004, and my mother in law, my ex husband's mom, has pretty much always been that step up. So she's the one that holds me accountable, and I love her for it.

[47:26] ALEXANDRA: Oh, yeah. I love my mother in law. She's so funny. She's amazing. Both my mother and father in law are always so supportive and wonderful and helpful, and they're just funny. They crack me up. We make each other laugh. So much.

[47:38] MICHELLE: That's what it's about. Laughter.

[47:40] ALEXANDRA: Yes.

[47:41] MICHELLE: In closing, it's about making sure you keep your sense of humor.

[47:44] ALEXANDRA: Yes. Always keep your sense of humor and watch a lot, a lot of Disney. Yeah, I'm sorry. I watch that with my kids all the time. They're always keeping me up on what's new. I'm like, oh, okay. I just watched the brand new, like, what was it, the Chippendale yesterday. I was like, oh, okay. We just came back from an eight hour drive from your cousin's graduation. But sure, I want to watch Chippendale. Sure.

[48:09] MICHELLE: I've been wanting to watch this all week. Thank you.

[48:12] ALEXANDRA: Yeah, thanks. Thanks. It was wonderful, you guys. But it was such a pleasure talking to you. I so hope that we can keep in touch this.

[48:19] MICHELLE: Absolutely, 100%. This was fun.

[48:22] ALEXANDRA: This was super fun. Thank you. This is such a pleasure meeting you. Oh, my goodness. It's been a pleasure. I have not had this much fun in a long time.

[48:32] MICHELLE: Perfect. We're new friends.

[48:34] ALEXANDRA: Yes, definitely. We got to keep in touch, and one day we will visit and meet in person. That's going to be the goal.

[48:41] MICHELLE: Goals.

[48:42] ALEXANDRA: Goals. That's what we need in life.

[48:43] MICHELLE: Goals.

[48:46] ALEXANDRA: Oh, my goodness. Okay.