Alexis Eck and Pratha Purushottam

00:00 All right. Hi, my name is Alexis. I am 20 years old, and today's date is December 7, 2022. And I'm recording here in Charlottesville, Virginia, with Pratha.

00:12 Yeah. Hi. My name is Pratha. I am 19 years old. Today's date is December 7, 2022, and I'm recording in Charlottesville, Virginia, with Alexis.

00:22 Alrighty.

00:23 And why did you both want to.

00:24 Do this in a you today? Yeah. So I have found that one of my favorite parts of being here at UVA is getting to interact with people who have completely different perspectives than me. And that's actually one of the reasons that I chose to go into the field of global public health and foreign affairs is because I just want to learn about other people's perspectives and their cultural backgrounds and what everybody like, why people believe the things that they believe. And this seems like the perfect opportunity to do that. Awesome.

00:55 Yeah. Kind of going off of what Alexis said. I grew up in a super small town, super rural, so surrounded by a lot of the same type of people. So after coming to uva, I was really exposed to lots and lots of different kinds of people from all over, lots of different perspectives. So this seemed like another way to get more perspective.

01:16 Great. Great. Prada. I'll have you read Alexis bio out loud.

01:21 All right. I grew up in a very privileged environment. However, I feel that my character has been shaped by the impacts of generational trauma, both from my parents and grandparents, and also the circumstances surrounding the upbringing of my entire generation in terms of gun violence, climate change, and mental health epidemics. I have especially been impacted by mental health struggles as. As depression and anxiety have played a significant role in my character development since I was a kid.

01:51 And Pratha's is? Hi, my name is Pratha and I'm currently a second year student at UVA. I'm originally from upstate New York, from a small, rural town called Elmira. In the future, I want to go into international human rights, and I'm very passionate about helping refugees and children. Some life events that have shaped me are moving from England to the US at the age of nine, traveling to India every summer, and volunteering with refugees in Charlottesville, and mentally and physically challenged children in India. Awesome. So is there anything in your bios that you know of, your conversation partners that you're curious about, that you're interested in knowing more about, or just any general questions that come up for you? Yeah, I feel like I'm just jumping right in, but I definitely wanted to touch on the your kind of career goals and your goals for your education. So I'm wondering, what's your major? If you have one yet.

02:44 Yeah, so still second year, so I'm gonna apply to the political philosophy, policy, and law major later this year, and I'm thinking about that with a double major in foreign affairs and then maybe a minor in history, if there's time. So I'll do four years at UVA, and then I'm planning to work for a bit before I go to law school, and I'm hoping to practice some kind of international law, hopefully human rights. But at the same time, I've heard that it's a pretty difficult field to get into, and, for example, the pay isn't as good as big law, so hoping I'll get to stay on that track, but that's the goal for right now.

03:19 Yeah. Was there, like, one specific event or just something significant that made you decide, this is what I want to do?

03:26 Yeah. So I was pretty set on law since, like, the beginning of high school. I did this thing where I grew up called youth court, wherever there would be peers from the area aged, like, seven through 16, who had committed, like, a misdemeanor. So they'd, like, stole something from Walmart, or they got in trouble at school, or they were trespassing, etcetera, and they would come in and it would be a completely peer run court process. So, like, the judges would be like, someone. In high school, I was one of the lawyers representing the defendant, and we'd basically give them a trial, and then they'd get a sentence, which would usually be, like, community service. So that really exposed me to what law can look like. So that was why I wanted to do law and then human rights. I just had a couple of volunteer experiences in India and where I grew up, and that kind of led me towards the path of really wanting to help people directly in my career.

04:22 Okay, cool. Yeah, I feel like I hear so many different people coming from so many different things, so I feel like you got a lot of background.

04:29 Yeah. What about you?

04:31 Yeah. So I had no clue what I wanted to do when I came to Uva or in high school at all. I took a class in pretty much every field possible, and it wasn't until last fall I took this class that was, like, humanitarian response and global development or something of the sort, and I was like, whoa, this is exactly it. This is what I want to do. So, thankfully, I found that class before I declared my major, so I declared global public health, and I'm now doing foreign affairs. But I also, this past class that we took. GSSJ 4559. Yeah, so I didn't really know anything about, like, international law or human rights law for that matter. And I was kind of really just approaching it more from like, an NGO perspective. But after this class, I was like, oh, my gosh, like, this is so fascinating. And when I was writing papers and literally citing legislation for some reason, that was so exciting for me. So now I've always, growing up, my mom was always like, you should go to law school. And I was like, no, I would cry in every argument that I'm in, but I realized that law is a lot more than that. And so I've actually been thinking myself, like, maybe I do want to go to law school for humanitarian law. So, yeah, this class really did change my perspective and kind of open up this whole world because I was very much just looking at things from a, like I said, an NGO perspective or a non governmental actor.

05:52 Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Like, to hear about the impact that a class can have on your life. Yeah, that's really awesome.

05:58 I've had that a lot. I feel like I just ran. I always pick one random class that I'm going to take as an elective and then it ends up changing everything for me. But that's really exciting. And that's why, like, one of the reasons I love Uva and just these classes, because, like, you just never know what you're going to discover. And so I feel like literally every semester I think I know what I want to do. And then I take another class and I'm like, no, this is too fascinating. I can't leave this.

06:23 Yeah, no, even I came into uva with a completely different major. I applied as a sociology major everywhere. Then I took a couple politics classes and kind of started exploring. And I was like, yeah, this is actually what I want to do.

06:37 Yeah. So before taking classes, did you have an understanding of international law mechanisms or was it all a lot more domestic for you?

06:44 It was pretty domestic. I took a international relations course last semester called ethics and world politics or, no, ethics and human rights and world politics. So, like, a couple lectures, the professor touched upon international law, but I think we went way more into depth for the class we're in together right now. So it definitely gave me, like, a better understanding.

07:07 Gotcha.

07:08 Yeah.

07:08 Yeah. I was kind of reflecting on this earlier and realizing that I think I was under the impression that once I come to school, I'm going to be like, oh, these are all the things I can do to help change the world. And I've almost kind of started noticing an opposite effect, which is kind of odd. But I feel like the more I learn, it's very easy to almost feel hopeless, especially when we're learning about a lot of the un mechanisms and how they're set up kind of in these old ways that cannot be changed, namely the Security Council. And so, yeah, I kind of just want to know, what's your perspective on that? Do you feel more energized, or are you kind of also scared of, like, the burnout that kind of comes with this potential field?

07:54 No, that's a great question and definitely something I think about a lot, especially in the law field. It's like, are we kind of, like, preventing things from happening, or are we just punishing what's already happened to? So even looking at it from that perspective, it's hard to be like, oh, I'm not actually changing anything for the future. But I think, personally, I'm luckily optimistic enough to look at it from a more energizing viewpoint. And I try to look at it, oh, there's so many bad things that are happening. But this gives me even more to try and change, which I think is a viewpoint you have to have when working in a field like this. Otherwise, I think it can be pretty depressing if you don't.

08:39 Yeah, for sure. And I also, one thing that has really been motivating me a lot is, like, seeing our generation mobilize, because I feel like we, like, as we are slowly getting older, like, one really niche example was my county growing up was always just very red. And the year that my graduating high school class turned 18 and we could all vote everything flip blue.

09:02 Wow.

09:02 And I was like, oh, my gosh, we can actually do something. And so I think that's been one thing that's been really inspiring for me, and not just in terms of local politics, but seeing across the world, college students are leading these revolutions and these protests. I think that I am getting a lot of faith from just our generation and knowing that we are really determined to fix the problems that weren't created by us, but so that people after us don't have to deal with it. And that's one thing I touched in my bio is, I think generational trauma is so real. And I think that our generation is just struggling so hard with it because we were set up for failure, but we're finding ways to not fail. And so I think that's also just something that's really been, like, a core of who I am is kind of being motivated by people our age and seeing, like, yes, everything felt kind of hopeless after things have stayed the same for so long. But if anybody can change it, we can.

10:00 Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely something, like, different about our generation. I think, looking at previous generations, that they didn't have that motivating factor or I don't know what is different. Maybe it's the effects of social media, or maybe that it's gotten so bad to this point that we don't have a choice. But whatever it is, I definitely use that as inspiration, reading about stuff teens are doing in the news or even here at UVA. I think there's a lot of change being created, and I'll just be looking at things people are doing, and I'm like, wow, that's so awesome. I would want to do something like that. And then I end up joining an organization or a club that's doing cool things.

10:39 Yeah. Do you have a specific experience or club that you joined that you would say just really kind of did it for you and just made you feel so empowered?

10:50 Yeah. So I just, this past semester, joined this thing called Siebel Tulips through the Madison house. So it's a volunteering opportunity. And every other Sunday, we go down to this big hole in Fry's spring, and a bunch of afghan refugees come who have been relocated to Charlottesville, and they're unfortunately staying in, like, really dusty and old hotels in the outskirts of the city. They really lost that community feel that they might have had once back home. So this program brings all the mothers and the children together for a couple hours every Sunday. And basically what we do is just, we go and the mothers work with mental health professionals, and they do yoga and coloring and fun activities. And it's also time for them to be away from their kids. So a bunch of UVA students will go in and kind of almost babysit, do fun activities with the kids for a couple hours. So I think that's been really cool just to see the way that these women are rebuilding their lives. They're taking english classes and just gives me a lot of perspective on, like, here I am experiencing what I think are these huge problems when there's people coming from a war torn country over and restarting and they're doing so well.

12:08 Yeah, it's very humbling. I feel like I also remember the class that I took on humanitarian aid that started right after, or I guess it started in August 2021. And my professor did a lot of work with the IRC, so she was also talking about like all of the afghan refugees that had just come in and I always wanted, I was always like, what can I do? But then also feeling like, is it my place? I don't know. It's weird. I just. Yeah, I always kind of doubt myself sometimes when I want to try to help.

12:40 Yeah.

12:41 And then I'm like, but is this culturally appropriate? Like, am I being the problem? Right? Like what is my role in all of this?

12:50 So, yeah, I could see that. I'm sure it's different for you but I definitely come at it as like a, like any help is better than no help. Yeah.

13:01 Yeah. I think I just psyched myself up. I think. Yeah. Like one of the main things that I was interested in, in going into this field is like kind of learning how to adapt like development efforts and humanitarian efforts to be very culturally respective. Last year I took a class on bioethics and actually learned a lot about how like a lot of aid and like medical aid that is sent out to countries is not respective of their culture at all and therefore is just useless and kind of like a waste of money. And so yeah, that's been something that's kind of inspired me. But I also, again, am like, where's my place in figuring this out? Like, I obviously come from like, I'm a white american so yeah, I don't know.

13:52 Yeah, that reminds me of something we talked about in class when we were discussing how, you know, countries go in and they try to set up like a whole government but often don't take into consideration the values and the practices of that country and often it leads to more harm than it does good. So I think, I'm sure with our generation, hopefully there'll be, I think we'll try to be more like culturally aware of other countries. I'm seeing that for sure in college, definitely. So, yeah, that's hopeful.

14:24 Yeah, it is. I also feel like in my education so far, I've just heard so much about the things that they've done wrong in the past that it's like hard to imagine that anybody's doing it right. But I just recently started an internship with international research and their whole basis is that they will create like recruit teams of local people and train them to do the interviews and collect all the data for them. And so it's just really cool to see like, oh, people actually are taking the right approach, thankfully. Like, I think it's just very easy to get caught up in all the bad. Like, I remember talking to my roommate, we're both in the same major. And at the beginning of this year, every day we would come home. We're like, so basically, capitalism just created problems for people. And we were like, I don't know what to do with that information, but okay. So, yeah, that's been something. I actually had a question, because I.

15:19 Know you mentioned how in the small.

15:21 Town that you grew up in, it's majority red, right. And how whenever you're graduating class or vote, you know, it switched blue.

15:30 And in a space like a small.

15:32 Town, I know it's very easy to kind of take whatever information is kind.

15:36 Of being passed around and to allow.

15:38 That to be kind of your guiding principle.

15:40 So I'm curious, at least for you, you know, what.

15:43 What kind of formed your own, like, personal politics within that space. And of course, prather, feel free to kind of follow up a response to that as well. Yeah, it actually wasn't really a small town. It was, like, kind of a really big town. But, yeah, so I grew up. My parents were both very red when I was growing up. And I remember as a kid, it's kind of just like, whatever your parents say, go. And I think that a lot of my friends had that same experience. I don't really know what, like, I still remember in high school, I was like, I don't know anything about anything. So I guess I'll just say what they say. And then I think it was actually, once I started getting more engaged in, like, social media, I feel like more of my opinions were based off of what I would read and educate myself on than anything else in terms of, like, what I was hearing at school or what I was hearing from my parents and my sisters. And I also kind of really worked together on creating our beliefs because we did recognize the influences that we had and the influences that we did not want to take in. And I think that together, we kind of had a lot of those uncomfortable discussions, which was really nice because we're all similar in age. And it was nice to just kind of have that sounding board of being like, is this a morally okay, like, what's right? What's wrong? And also, it's also scary, like, forming your own belief when you've been raised in a household thinking one thing. And I remember, like, we have definitely gotten in fights with our parents about this stuff, and, like, it's not pretty, but I think as long as we have each other and, like, we have kind of that power in numbers because there's three of us, we know now and then also now that we're older, we know right and wrong. So, yeah, I feel like it's definitely we were all just motivated to do the work ourselves and to do that research for ourselves. But I do know a lot of people who just kind of take what their parents give them and never really think, like, my parents, I know they got their beliefs because that's what they did with their parents. Their parents were very red, and then they just, like, pass it on. And I still hear it, like, when my mom would be talking about something, I'm like, I swear I heard Opa say that a few weeks ago. Like, what? But, yeah, I think it's all about just being motivated to, like, educate yourself and wanting to be better. And I think that's what did it for us was we were just like, we want to be on the right side of history, and we also just want to be educated. So we're going to do that, and we're going to ask for perspectives from people who we don't get to hear perspectives from. We want to amplify voices of people who, like, don't really have that opportunity and ask questions and just educate ourselves, even if it's uncomfortable at times. So, yeah, it was a lot of just, like, personal motivation, I would say. Sorry, that was a really long winded answer.

18:39 Yeah, it's great to hear that. I guess you had the courage to kind of switch over from what your parents were, what you heard from your parents. I think that takes a lot of, like, effort to kind of go against what you've been hearing for all your life. And I also grew up, or I guess you didn't grow up in a small town, but I grew up in a very small town. I went to catholic high school, and there were only, like, 50 kids in my graduating class. So, like, you can kind of imagine the culture and the atmosphere that I was in. It was a very red area, and, like, throughout my time there, there was, like, a certain kind of echo chamber that I was usually in, even with my friends. So I think a huge thing for me that kind of got me to start thinking about politics and, like, what side I was on. Probably, like, in the summer with the Black Lives Matter protests, there was a lot of information online, and I really started educating myself, and I was like, yeah, this is really interesting, like, learning about things for myself and seeing what conclusions I can come to based off of that. So I remember asking my parents if I could go to a protest, and it was a really new idea for them having come. We all came to the United States just seven years ago, so a completely new culture for us. So, yeah, they let me go to the protests that came with me, and I think it was a really kind of creative way for all of us to approach our beliefs from a different viewpoint. They obviously aren't super familiar with american politics, but luckily for me, I think the values that they raised me with led me to always kind of be thinking more on blue party lines. So I never had an internal struggle in that way with my parents, which was good, but definitely, like, in my community, with my peers, friends, teachers, that was always something that I found myself going against. And just using my voice on social media, especially, I think, was a huge catalyst. I remember often getting into debates with people who would reply to my stories and just talking for hours. And honestly, it was a good experience, I think, to be surrounded with so many people on the other side, because it really allowed me to kind of think about my views and make sure they were, like, solid, because I wanted to be backing up what I was saying and, like, 100% believe in what I was saying. So it was a good learning experience.

21:18 Yeah, that brings up a really good point. I also remember it was, like, the first protest I ever went to. It was called read for Ed, and it was advocating for higher pay for teachers. And I was so nervous about my parents knowing that I was going to a protest, I just didn't tell them. I was like, I'll be in Richmond doing homework for the day. I'm going to a little cafe. See you later. And then I came home and told my mom, and she was like, why would I get mad about that? Yeah, this also kind of ties back to people getting stuck in the echo chamber. Like you were saying earlier, I feel like a lot of my mom's views are very liberal or blue, but she says she's red just because she was red. But then she's talking about things she cares about, and I'm like, I hate to tell you, but, like, that's very, very liberal of you. So, yeah, I think that a lot of people just kind of. And it's also, like, what I really like, what you said about making sure that your beliefs were solid and that you had evidence to pack them up, because I think that's really important, too. And growing up in an environment where people are going to challenge you helps you a lot, because I'm not gonna just, like, say something to say something now. It's like, I'm gonna make sure that I have a reason for that. And if you question me, I will pull up receipts. Like, we'll do it. So I think that's also just, like, a really good skill. Like, I'm grateful that we both had that opportunity to kind of be pushed to, like, make sure that we were supporting what we were saying, so.

22:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It reminds me of something I remember you said in class yesterday. You said that, like, now you felt like you had enough knowledge to kind of speak on a lot of topics. And I think that's something in college that I'm really experiencing is, like, I finally feel informed enough to, like, have an opinion and, like, have conversations with other people about it. Yeah. So it's been cool to have, like, conversations with adults who are oftentimes, like, experts or they know a lot, and I feel at an equal level with them.

23:13 Yeah. That makes me so excited. It's, like, one of my favorite things because I remember also, I hate when you first start a major and you're like, oh, this is my major. And then they're like, oh, do you know about this, this and this? I'm like, I haven't been in it yet. Like, no. And that was my experience a lot was I would be like, I'm doing global public health. And they're like, oh, do you know about this? About COVID and this and this? I was like, not yet. Give me a minute. But now I feel like I can just, like, if somebody gives me a little prompt, I can just go off. And it's so empowering to feel like I actually know something or have, like, an opinion that's worth sharing or an opinion that I even can share, because, like, before, I wouldn't. I don't want to just, like, spew facts. I don't know, you know, but it's so empowering to feel like you actually know stuff. And I never thought that I would be able to, like, feel myself learning, but I definitely am, and it's really cool. It makes me so happy. I love learning. I agree. I'm trying to think.

24:15 I know I might like thinking one of these.

24:22 Oh, I have a question. So, yeah, this question right here that is written down, do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you and how they communicate those beliefs to others? This is kind of going back to what we were talking about. I feel like we were kind of phrasing, or by we, I mean, I was phrasing it as, like, there's the right and the wrong. And I feel like growing up, I was always under the impression that there's, like, everybody's view is valid. If they can just back it up. But now I'm like, as I get older, I'm kind of like, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Some views are just disrespectful to people. And so what's your perspective on kind of, like, the right or wrong or, like, how do you approach, like, I guess, talking about, like, political party lines? Because I feel like that's very. Some people get very offended. And it's like, if you, like, I know that me and my friends kind of have standards of character, and a lot of it's based on political views. Like, I don't. And a lot of people argue with us for that, but I don't know. What's your kind of opinion on that?

25:31 I totally agree. It reminds me of a quote that I read a long time ago, and I think it was, I will respect your opinion as long as it doesn't disrespect someone else. And I really like that. And I think that forms a good standard for me. Oftentimes, I think, on the other side of me, a lot of people have beliefs, and they don't know why they have those beliefs. And once they realize, oh, this is why it's disrespectful, they kind of do a little more evaluation. But I agree with you. Like, I don't think that every belief is correct. And that's definitely something I've learned in college more than high school, because I thought, too, that, like, okay, if you have an opinion, like, it's not, like, kind of, like, in the law field. Like, there's someone advocating for the defendant and someone on the other side. And I. Obviously, both of those people are thinking they're both correct. But I think in certain discussions, there is one right opinion and one wrong opinion.

26:37 Yeah, for sure. I also just feel guilty every time I feel like if I make any opinions based off of somebody's party alignment, I'm like, I'm feeding into the problem polarization. But also, it's like, there are people I love whose rights are being debated. That's not up for debate for me. My sister, when she came out as lesbian, my dad was like, well, I'm not happy about that. And I was like, oh, hell no. Sorry. Am I sorry? Okay. Because that was one of the big moments where I was like, okay, no, this is real. You're not gonna just tell her? She can't be. And I don't. It's honestly embarrassing that it took me kind of a long time. Like, I feel like it wasn't until I was probably, like, a sophomore junior in high school where I felt like I actually started having opinions.

27:30 But.

27:33 Yeah. And now I'm, like, one and done. Like, if you say something slightly disrespectful to somebody, I'm like, no, bestie. Like, we're backing up.

27:43 No, yeah, I agree. In high school, I remember, too, I was sitting with my group of friends at the time, and I think someone on the other side of the lunch table was talking about how it was a girl, and she was talking about how she had a girlfriend. And I remember the group of people I was sitting with were just making fun of her for being lesbian. And at the time, I saw nothing wrong with that, which was really embarrassing now that I look back on it. But I'm grateful that I do at least now know that that was wrong.

28:14 Yeah. No, I think back on stuff like that all the time where I realized, like, as a kid or, like, a younger adult, I was, like, complicit to, like, I don't even. I can't think of specific examples right now, but just bad things. Yeah.

28:29 Yeah.

28:30 And it's so hard to not, like, hate myself for it. But then I'm also like, you learned and you're better now, and that's what matters, because, like, you can't judge somebody's character off of where they start. I feel like it's all about where they choose to go. Right. And I feel like that's where I really try to make character judgments. But it's like, if somebody's obviously choosing to be bad, then that's a no. But, yeah, I try to also just be very cognizant of. A lot of people were just raised how they are, and it's like, you can't really blame them for that. You just can blame them for nothing. Wanting to make a change.

29:08 Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely about the effort, how, like, willing they are to listen to other opposing viewpoints and change. And, like, in the future, how will they react? How do they see themselves acting? Like, do they always see themselves being the same way? Like, stuck in the same line of thinking? And that goes for myself, too. Like, I wouldn't want to be hypocritical. So I'm always, like, looking for ways to alter my belief systems based on what I think is morally correct. And sometimes that means realigning the compass. And that's fair, too.

29:42 Yeah. Do you find that kind of perspective is something that people that share the.

29:47 Same beliefs as you also hold? Do they kind of hold that sort.

29:51 Of patience and kind of awareness to people in the process of kind of, you know, maybe as they're learning about new issues and topics, like it's changing.

30:00 Their perspectives on things, or do you.

30:02 Think it's kind of the other end where there's a little bit more of that impatience just from your experience talking with friends and family and strangers? Yeah, I would definitely say I see a lot more impatience. And it kind of frustrates me because. Or it doesn't kind of frustrate me. It really frustrates me because I guess it ties into, like, cancel culture these days is somebody does one thing wrong, you're done. And I feel like a lot of the people in my life are that way, and they're very quick. If one person makes a mistake, they're like, okay, we don't like them anymore. And I hate myself for it sometimes, but I always feel like I try to be the devil's advocate and be like, okay, well, is this a repeated offense? Because if so, valid. But is it a mistake? What's going on here? I feel like I have a lot more patience than a lot of people that I associate with, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's always a good thing because sometimes I wish that I was less forgiving, but I definitely feel like a lot of people are very, like. They like to cancel.

31:09 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, thinking about my family, but, like, my extended family back in India, like, families are usually very, like, traditional stay together, like, lots of family values. And I. I think I also see a lot of impatience, and I think that's steeped in that tradition and keeping the old ways. For example, one of my cousins has a boyfriend who's Muslim, and they've been dating for quite a while. But obviously she's scared to tell my aunt and uncle because we're hindu, so it's a direct conflict for her parents. So stuff like that are things that I think will take a lot of time to change. And it might not be, like, due to the direct fault of people, but just the fault of the traditions that have just been so ingrained in the culture. And I think that also leads to a lot of that impatience we've been talking about.

32:06 Yeah, for sure. I think that's really interesting to think about how, like, some people, for patients, like, their patience isn't necessarily their choice or their lack of patience. And I feel like that's something I also need to remember a lot. I feel like a lot of people were raised that it's like if somebody crosses a boundary in any way, then, like, bye. Which is really valid, honestly. Like, I feel like I'll probably raise my kids like that. But, yeah, it's just interesting. I feel like I always just try to. I'm so scared of being blamed for things that are not my fault that I think I try to extend that to other people. But, like I said, sometimes I wish I was a little less forgiving because I also have a tendency to let people walk all over me. So, like, I don't know. I don't know where the happy medium is. There. The work in progress. Yes, exactly. I'm just a work in progress. That's what I've been saying recently. Honestly, this is a really different direction. But I just wanted to ask, what's an international issue, maybe that we touched on in class or outside of class that really just means the most to you?

33:23 That's a good question. Personally, I really found our class about refugees and migration very interesting. I think if I were to go into international law, I'd definitely might want to head that direction. And I don't really have an answer as to why. I feel like I've always just been drawn to that issue. Maybe it's because of my own experience with immigrating from England to the United States and dealing with the immigration system. I know firsthand how hard it can be to not have a defined citizenship or identity tied to your statehood, I guess. So that class I found super interesting and motivating.

34:07 Yeah, that's a really cool perspective.

34:09 Yeah. Yeah. I also just watched this Netflix talk or. No, it was a movie called the Swimmers, and it was talking about these two refugees from Syria, I think. And they were, like, young girls, and just, like, it showed their journey from Syria to Greece, I think it was Greece. Or Turkey. Turkey. And how they had to cross, like, a whole ocean. And just to see that journey and, like, what people have to struggle with on a daily basis, it tied a lot of the things from that class that we had into the movie, and, like, together, it kind of inspired me a lot.

34:48 Yeah. I feel like I remember hearing about that story.

34:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the girl, like, she was a swimmer, so that's how both of them were able to, like, swim across the ocean, and she went to the Olympics.

34:58 Oh, jeez.

34:59 Yeah, it was very inspiring.

35:01 Yeah. I'm sure I need to watch that.

35:04 What about you? Was there any topic that stood out?

35:07 Yeah, I've actually kind of been going down the same path recently of learning more about refugees and migration, because I think that something about just the concept of home, to me is so important. And it's not even like, I wouldn't even consider my hometown my home. It's more of a where the people that you're comfortable with are and where you feel safe. And the fact that, like, some people just don't have that is so devastating to me because I am such a. I need my space and my peace and all this. And so I think that that just kind of hits home to me. The fact that, like, there are people literally just searching for. Yeah, a place that they can go. And then having so many governments literally just be like, no. When at the end of the day, they're human beings and they just need a roof and a place to be with their family or just a place to be. And so I've been trying to learn a little bit more about that. I want to take a class. I've actually never thought I would have this problem, because looking at Uva classes, I was always like, there's something for literally everything. But now I'm running into the problem where I'm, like, I have interest and they don't have classes for me. So I didn't think that would be a problem. But I'm not mad about it. I've actually been looking at. There's, like, this website called Coursera that Uva has, like, free access to. I literally have, like, a lit. Like, a page of just, like, classes. It's, like, month long classes that you can take, and it's, like, refugee laws and, like, international law and all that. So, yeah, I've been. Yeah, I've been trying to find ways to, like, learn more because I feel like there's just so many things that I care about, but I feel like I don't know enough about. But I can only cram so much information in my brain at one time. But I'm trying.

37:01 Yeah, no, I think. I think it's really important to zoom out. Like you said, they're all just human beings. I think governments and countries oftentimes just start looking at the details, like, oh, how are we gonna get all these people in? Get the resources distributed equally? But oftentimes, I think people forget to zoom out and be like, they're literally fleeing from war without anything. They just need a place to stay.

37:26 This seems kind of random, but I can tie it back. Do you know your enneagram type or not? Your enneagram? You're Myers Briggs.

37:32 Yeah. I was obsessed with that. I remember in high school, I'd be looking up, is personality psychology. A major because I wanted to major in it. I am intJ.

37:43 Okay, so you're a t. Yes. Interesting. I'm an ISFJ.

37:48 Ooh.

37:48 Okay. But I feel like it's been really interesting to kind of see different people's approaches. I have a lot of friends and, like, my boyfriend right now, they're all in the e school, so our educations are just completely different. But I feel like a lot of my education is very motivated by, like, my emotion and what makes me sad and, like, what I want to fix. And so then that's why I feel kind of motivated to go out and do that. And so when you're talking about how there's people and, like, governments who are obviously just focused on the logistics, I feel like that's very much, like, a necessary part of it. It's just you need a balance between people who are going to be worrying about the logistics and people who actually care about people. And so. Yeah, but I feel like you seem very emotionally in tune.

38:36 Yeah, this was from, like, 10th grade, so maybe. And see what happens.

38:40 Well, no, you could also just be a good person. I think you're just a good person. Like, that'll do it. But, yeah, I also love that kind of personality stuff. I was in a, like, specialty center in high school where they made us learn about all that because it was like this specialty center for leadership. And they were like, it helps you a lot of. So that's something that I was really interested in. And I asked everybody about it because I think it says so much.

39:07 It really does. Like, some people think it's fake, but when you go into it and really analyze it, you're like, this makes so much sense. And it's really true.

39:15 I have so many friendships that after learning their enneagram, we just get along because we just get what the other person needs. But, yeah, I think it's really interesting. All my friends in engineering are all teased, and so I was like, and I'll just be sitting there being like, this, this, this. I'm so passionate about this. They're like, I learned how water flows out of a. Okay, cool.

39:39 Yeah. So how is that, like, having a lot of friends who are not, like, in a completely different line of study from you? Like, do you feel like you can talk to them about all these issues or do you sometimes feel a little, like, boxed in?

39:53 Yeah, I think that sometimes I do feel a little boxed in in terms of, like, whenever I get out of class, I'm somebody who just, like, if it was interesting. I just want to talk about it, but, I mean, I have, like, I'm surrounded by very great people. They will just let me talk, me talk about it, whether they understand or not, and they're just like, oh, my God, that's so cool. That's so interesting. And I'm like, yeah. But then I also wish sometimes that I had people who would, like, I guess, like, experienced in the field who could just, like, kind of push me to learn a little bit more, but obviously, like, they're just doing their thing. I am just excited to kind of get to a place where, like. Like, this while. Oops, sorry. This is why I love, like, small classes like, ours was because I felt like I was just talking with, like, five friends who just, like, knew what they were talking about and were just interested in the same things. And so I've really been appreciating little seminars, and, like, here at uva, that's been, like, my favorite class experience so far.

40:49 I agreed. I was definitely looking for that in a college where you could have a lot of discussion. Cause I think I learned the most, like, increase my skills the most and, like, helps me to actually do the readings. Cause then I'm like, we're actually gonna be talking about this. I need to know what I'm talking about.

41:03 Yeah, I feel like in seminars, I always learn more from my peers than I do, like, myself doing the reading or anything, or even sometimes from lectures, because it's like I could have done all the reading and come up with this little blurb of what I thought, and then somebody says something else, and I'm like, how that. Like, whoa, I don't know where you got that, but I like that. It's just really fascinating to, like, I just love learning from other people and seeing how their brains work. And you guys have been really inspiring this semester, so thank you. Me too. Thank you. Do you guys, when it comes to.

41:37 These kind of, like, topics, interest and.

41:40 That you hope to kind of take.

41:41 With you, like, into careers, do you.

41:44 Find that outside of the classroom space, like, even when it comes to, like, the news, do you find that that stuff is covered? Are there places that you try to go to, like, expand your learning on these topics? Because I know you mentioned just sometimes talking with friends, it's good to have that reassurance, but, like, sometimes you want a little bit more than that. So I'm curious.

42:04 Even, like, in the new spaces, do.

42:06 You find, like, that that fulfills that, or do you have to kind of still sift through material to kind of gain a little bit more knowledge on those topics. Yeah, I feel like I have to do a little bit of sifting. Like, obviously, I will get the basic information about a situation from news, but I feel like to get discourse or kind of further thought, you need to dig a little bit further, which I'm very happy to do. And, like, I understand why basic news is not, like, that thorough, because nobody wants to read that other than me. But, yeah, I don't know. I feel like sometimes I do struggle to find those sources, and I found that, like, my professors, I honestly think are the best resource to kind of probe about, like, when I see something in the news that I think is interesting, want to know more about than in class, I'll just be like, do you know anything about this? And that's been a good resource for me.

43:00 Yeah, for me, I think a lot of sifting as well. I think something I've been noticing is the huge boom of media coverage when something happens in the moment and the couple weeks after that, but then the way it dies down is crazy to me. For example, Ukraine, even on grounds with the shooting, there was a lot of attention, a lot of media the first couple weeks, but then it just drops off as if it never happened. So that's been weird to see. I get why it happens. I think humans just have a short attention span, and when something's not as sensational, obviously it won't be covered as much. So there's definitely a lot of digging to do. And I wish that certain news pieces were more available to the public and kind of pushed in front of people eyes. Like, a specific example, last year, I was in an NWAR class, and we were working on, like, a book thing, publishing interviews with people from Myanmar that we had interviewed over Zoom, and we interviewed them about their experience fleeing from the coup. And a bunch of them were refugees, so they were literally in hiding, hiding out in camps and shelters. And the one common thread that a lot of them said where we want more international media attention, we just want more people to know our story. So that was really interesting to see that even though there's all these crazy things happening, how blind so many people are to it. I think that's really sad.

44:42 Yeah, no, I'm so happy you brought that up, because that's something that frustrates me so much, is, like, obviously, I think the term that my professor used was, like, carrying capacities. Like, all media has, like, a carrying capacity of things they can be covering at once. But it just pains me a little bit that it's like, it vanishes from the news, but the people are still very much in it. And that's something I've always thought about. But especially with the shooting, I recognize that because it was like, obviously there was a bunch of news that first week and, like, my family was all reaching out because they saw it in the news and all this. And then I went home for Thanksgiving and then suddenly nobody was talking about it anymore. Like, they forgot. And I was like, this is still my reality. And it's like if somebody mentioned it, I would just start, like, crying. And I was like, sorry. You do need to understand, like, we are in this. Like, it's not just something that vanishes when the news vanishes. And I try to extend that kind of, like, experience that I had and that's like, that empathy to people in such bigger situations. And, jeez, it's heartbreaking. Especially we've been looking at the humanitarian responses to certain crises and all of them are like, okay, at the beginning, the funding was great. We had everything we needed. But then by the time we hit two months in, the funding was just gone because the donors found something new to worry about. And I think that that's just, it's so devastating that it's like something needs to be almost, like, exciting for people to care. And it's like, I understand logistically, but also it's just so frustrating and heartbreaking because I'm like, there's no timeline on this for the people who are in it. They're just in it and they can't just, like, separate from that. And it's not only, like, they just are still in it. Like, it usually gets worse. Like, if there's a situation that they need aid or something, like, it usually dwindles out because people just stop caring. And that's been, like, something that really has just been in my brain recently and really irks me. Something I feel like I can't do anything about, nor can anybody. But do you see that changing, like, in the future? Do you think that there's that potential.

47:02 Of spending more time on issues or.

47:04 Topics, whether it's, like news or just in general, like, you were talking about, like, needs based intervention and stuff? Do you see that sort of quick shifting pattern that we have right now changing in any way? Unfortunately, no. I feel like it's almost against human nature for that to change. But I feel like there are still things that people can do in terms of, like, these organizations that are, like, helping. Like, I know I was talking about humanitarian aid as my point of reference, but I feel like the news thing isn't going to change, but in terms of, like, supplying aid, like, if somebody is going to start an initiative somewhere, I think you need to make sure it's going to be sustainable. And so I think that if, I think that's something that a lot of organizations are trying to shift towards, I don't know if that will be successful. Successful. But I know that sustainability and continuity has been on the minds of a lot of these organizations who have been helping. So I'm hoping it might change in that realm. But I don't think that the news media is going to change because I think it's just human nature to jump to the next big thing.

48:17 Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I would have to agree. I don't see it changing anytime soon. I think where our culture is very much about instant gratification and what's happening right now and sensationalizing things that I don't see it changing. But as we talked about previously, I think our generation is incredibly passionate. So I'm hoping that individuals who are in certain lines of work are so passionate that they continue to keep bringing their issues and the things they're working on to the news to, like, the minds of people. So that's definitely like a positive spin on it.

48:55 Yeah, for sure. I also liked earlier that you mentioned the Russia Ukraine conflict because I feel like that definitely does fit into this category. Like, I remember when it first happened, everybody was freaking out. They were talking about World War three starting. We still get some of those comments, just not as much. But now I feel like it's almost just a part of life for a lot of people. And it's almost weird when we were like, we were like, talking about it in class because I was like, whoa, wait. This is still going on? Like, people are actually talking about this in the Un right now. And I have a friend who is from Ukraine and she has just been absolutely devastated this entire time, obviously. And it's just crazy to see how a lot of people can just separate themselves from it. And then she's like, I'm still here. Like, I can't separate myself from it. Like every week I'm checking the news and just, like, crying and so, yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I was really going with that, but I just thought that that was an interesting topic to come up with. And that's definitely been a recent example that I've noticed. Yeah, definitely. I feel like that sort of stuff just hits even closer to home. When you have people that you care about that are so connected to it. You know, I think both of you are just very empathetic by nature and how you talk about topics that matter to you, whether they're personal or just, you know, something that you're hearing about so often, but it definitely hits another level when it's something that hits close.

50:25 To you, close to your community, close.

50:27 To people that you love. Yeah, for sure.

50:30 Well, we are kind of coming in.

50:32 On the closing of time, so I.

50:33 Just wanted to give you both a couple minutes. If you had any last questions, whether.

50:38 It'S from the conversation sheet or those.

50:41 That you come up with or even.

50:43 Just comments that you wanted to kind of pass on to one another before I hit stop on the recording. That's a great question. Yeah, I don't know. I just had a really hard time getting to know you more.

50:59 The time really did fly by.

51:01 Yeah, I know we've been talking literally all semester in class, but it's really nice to get to hear your background.

51:09 On a deeper level.

51:10 Really cool. So thank you for letting us do.

51:13 Yeah, thank you so much.