Alicia Barnes and Joseph Bowman

[00:07] ALICIA BARNES: My name is Alicia Barnes. I am 49 years old. Today's date is August 1, 2023. I am in Oakland, Maine, and I am Joe's mother.

[00:24] JOSEPH BOWMAN: My name is Joe. I'm 18. Today's date is August 1. Like she said, the location is Oakland, Maine, and Alicia is my mother. So the first question I have is, can you tell me about where you grew up and what it was like?

[00:47] ALICIA BARNES: I grew up in Waterville, Maine, and it was a really small town in central Maine where everyone knows everyone, and most of our fathers worked at paper mills. Pretty safe place to grow up. Very strongly middle class. Yeah.

[01:16] JOSEPH BOWMAN: What were some of the reasons that you joined the military, and why did you choose the Navy?

[01:22] ALICIA BARNES: I joined the military because I was at a dead end job where the only people who were being promoted were people who were not doing their jobs, but they were talking a lot to people, making the decisions. And I felt that hard work should be rewarded, nothing complimenting people unnecessarily. So I joined the Navy because I wanted more opportunities to advance in a career and also because I needed to finish my college degree, and I didn't want to take out any more loans. So I joined the navy, and I got the Navy college fund for the rate that I chose.

[02:12] JOSEPH BOWMAN: What was basic training like?

[02:18] ALICIA BARNES: Basic training was challenging. I had never done anything that physical in my life, never really played sports. I did play football off and on, like, when I was really young, but had never been a runner. I'd never done obstacle horses. Was a little on the short side, so I always needed the help of other shipmate to do the obstacle courses. And it was. I mean, it was just. It was very challenging, but it was also rewarding to be able to complete it.

[02:56] JOSEPH BOWMAN: So can you describe a funny moment from boot camp?

[03:03] ALICIA BARNES: So I tell people this story, and they look at me at disbelief. I was standing watch in the compartment where our rack, our bunks were, where we slept, and it was later in the evening. And I just remember, you know, when our recruit division commanders came to the door, we had to greet them and sound off and say our name and our rank and all conditions care. Basically, we had to report the conditions of the barracks to them. And if we messed that up, we would have to do push ups. So one of my first class recruit division commanders came in. Her name was Mu one Ford. She was a musician, first class. She came in, and I sounded off, and she goes, Barnes, drop. And I had no idea why I was being dropped. I was like, did I do something wrong? Did I say it? The wrong way, because even if you just set it out of order, you would get in trouble. So I got in push up position, and I asked, like, I had to say permission to begin, and she told me to begin, and I just started doing push ups and counting them. And as I'm doing the push ups, I see another one of our recruit division commanders at the door because we had, like, a narrow window in the door to the compartment. And I remember thinking to myself, if he comes in, do I ask for permission to recover and then go sound off to him and then start push ups again? Like, what do I do? You know, because it. That had never happened. One, I had never been dropped, and then, two, I'd never been interrupted while I was doing my push ups and had to actually sound off. But thankfully, he stayed at the door until he saw me recover. And when I stood up, he opened the door. I sounded off to him. He was an Os one, and I sounded off to him. And he looks at petty officer Ford, and he says, what did Barnes do? Why'd you make her drop and mu one? Ford said, nothing. I just felt like it. And Os one valley, says, barnes, drop. And he made me do another 30 push ups. And I was just, like, I couldn't laugh, but I thought it was hilarious. I never got in trouble in boot camp, so I was just. And I think, like, that's why they were messing with me, because I was like, you know, I was five years older than most of the people in my boot, my boot camp division, but also, you know, like, I stayed under the radar. I just did what I was supposed to do and ever talk back, you know, and they just thought it was hilarious. And I was laughing inside, but I couldn't show them that I was. So that was pretty funny to me.

[05:56] JOSEPH BOWMAN: What are some things you remember most about your deployment?

[06:03] ALICIA BARNES: I. So one of the things I remember, I remember the first time I actually saw the water with the glowing algae in it, and I thought there was something wrong with the ocean. I just remember thinking I had never seen anything like that in my life, not even on tv or, like, on a National Geographic special. And I was like, what is wrong with the water? And this was probably when we were, like, way over in the east Atlantic almost to the Mediterranean at nighttime. And, like, all the tops of the waves were glowing green. Like, there were light. There was light in it. And I just remember thinking it was so weird, but it was also beautiful that nature could cause something that, you know, special, I guess. So that's probably, like, the most positive thing I remember from my deployment, and that was before we got to the Mediterranean. The other things that I remember most about my deployment, unfortunately, are, like, very stressful things. We had a false alarm for a Scud missile inbound where, you know, the. We had this really, really loud alarm that sounds throughout the ship. And it just said, you know, man, your battle station, scud missile inbound. And I remember thinking, what in the hell is going on? You know? Because we had never practiced for a Scud missile, and I actually worked nights at the time and had just, like, gone to my rack. It was like 830 in the morning. So I had to pull my uniform back on and pull my socks back on, I think. I actually did not put socks on. I just put my boots on and then had to, you know, get to where I was supposed to be when we had battle stations, because we all had very specific jobs. And I just remember, you know, like, there were trays all over the galley because people were eating breakfast when it happened, and they just left their trays there, which is like, you never do that, but there was no time because if it was a real alarm, you had to get to where you were going and, you know, do your job. And I just remember I went up a ladder. Well, and there was a kid, he was probably 19, and he was, like, on his knees saying, I'm not ready to go. I'm not ready to go. And I just thought to myself, do I help him get to where he needs to go, or do I get to where I need to go? If I help him, ten more people could die. But if I leave him here, like, I'm an asshole, you know, pardon my french. And I just remember thinking, well, I need to get, you know, I have to go down the entire length of the ship and over the other side, like, you know, and he's not gonna be any good to anybody else in his shop like that. And, like, yeah. So then that started me thinking, like, is this really happening? Like, is this it? You know? But I just kind of did what I had to do. And then we found out, well, we found out by talking to other people on the ship who had been, like, where the radar was that would have shown something on its way in. And what had happened was Iran was doing Scud missile testing and doesn't tell the United States cause we're not friendly. Um, and we had found out about it, you know, through the chain of command somehow, and they decided it was just better to be safe and go to general quarters just in case. But apparently we were out of range. But the thing is, like, we didn't know that when the battle station alarm went off, you know, and we were on our way. Well, we were. We were in the gulf. We were on our way into the Persian Gulf, you know, to drop off marines off the coast of Iraq. So who knows, you know, who we've made for enemies and, you know, who wants us not to be there? So there was that. And I think, for me, the other, like, most memorable point of my deployment. So the battle group I was with took over 10,000 marines from, I believe, the second Meb, which is the second Marine expeditionary brigade out of North Carolina. And there were seven ships because they called us the magnificent seven on Memorial Day. And it would have been, let's say I deployed in January of 2003, so it would have been May 2003. We did a memorial service on our flight deck. And I just remember, like, and I still have the picture they set up. I think they were m, like, so many pairs of boots, and they had helmets on the top of them. We lost marines as they were swimming the Tigris river into Iraq because they were not strong enough swimmers. And so we held a memorial service for them on Memorial Day. And I just remember thinking, you know, they were, like, 18 and 19 years old, you know, and they. They died going into war because they drowned, like, you know, and that's probably not what they, any of them expected would happen if they didn't make it back. But, yeah, so that was. I mean, that sucked. We didn't, you know, because I think, like, being in the Navy and we're like, oh, well, we pretty much. We stay in the water. There's a reason for that. Like, I joined the Navy because I love the water. You know, marines and army personnel normally join the army of the marines because they like this. They like the land. They don't like the water. But being in the water, I felt like we were a little bit more protected from what? You know, what the unknown was in Iraq when they first went in. I also remember every morning I used to go to the smoke deck because I worked overnights and I was a smoker then. I would go to the smoke deck at, like, five five or 530 in the morning, and I would see tomahawks go up. I would have my cigarette or two, and then I'd go back upstairs and turn on, you know, military tv, and we would see missiles hitting Baghdad. And I was like, those are just fired, like, you know, 300 yards off our starboard side. From. I know, the us, the John McCain and the Winston. Well, the Winston Churchill with us around the same area, anyways. And I was just like, don't they realize that's what's happening every morning? You know, like, I see it happen, and then it. You know, and to me, like, I couldn't be a conscientious objector, even though I didn't believe in war because I had to feed my kid, who, my other son, who was back home at the time, but I did not join the navy to go to war. And then, you know, but I knew that was a possibility, but I had a really hard time with it because I don't believe in an eye for an eye or using force to get your point across, so. Yeah, but.

[13:43] JOSEPH BOWMAN: Was there anything you especially missed about civilian life?

[13:49] ALICIA BARNES: You threw that one in there. Um. Uh, not really. Um, and I. And I think, like, some of the other questions will, you'll figure that out. Uh, like, why I don't. Didn't miss civilian life. I mean, maybe, like, going to, like, concerts, but I could still do that in the military. I actually. I liked the military because it was organized. I knew what I had to do, what time of day I had to do it, what I had to wear, like, I didn't have to spend a lot of time making those decisions every day. And it was also very equitable, whereas the civilian world is not very equitable. So, no, I did not really miss being a civilian at all.

[14:51] JOSEPH BOWMAN: What are some fun things you and your friends did together while you were deployed?

[14:56] ALICIA BARNES: So I brought a laptop with me, and back in 2003, they were kind of expensive, so not everybody had one. And I got one that had, like, a really good set of speakers on it so we could, like, listen to music. And I just remember, like, everyone in my shop, when we had our. We each had a four hour watch up in the transceiver room, like, 24 hours a day there. There were, like, two or three of us up there just in case any of the equipment went down. And there were a couple of them that had their cds with them because they had their discmans. I think that's what they were back then. And they would put their cds on my laptop, so I ended up having, like, 300 cds worth of music stored on my laptop. And then we also played the sims on my laptop. And kind of, like, when it got boring, we would basically leave them by their own, like, just leave the game on and leave the room. My computer was in for a couple hours, and we'd come back, and I remember this happened a couple times, and they had to, like, burn down the house. And we thought it was hilarious because we were just, like, bored with the game. So that was pretty fun. And, I mean, we all, like, you know, like, went to chow together. You know, there would be, like, four or five of us who would go to breakfast at the same time or dinner. So. And almost every time we got, like, a package from a family member, there'd be something in it for everybody else in our shop, like magazines. I remember my, you know, your dad was sending me magazines, and some of them were for the guys in the shop. They weren't necessarily for me, you know, so they all thought that was cool and their wives would do the same thing, or their family members, so. But.

[16:48] JOSEPH BOWMAN: When did you leave the military, and what was that process like?

[16:53] ALICIA BARNES: So I was discharged on May 13, 2005. The only reason why I remember the specific date is because it's also my father's birthday. And I just remember signing my discharge paper, like my DD 214, and being asked if I wanted to enlist in the army, and they would promote me to an e five. I was an e four. When I got out of the navy, they would promote me to an e five, and I could go into the army. And I remember, you know, I told them, I was like, no, I'm all set. You know, my son, you were only four months old at the time, and I told him I wasn't going to helicopter school and then going back over to Iraq. There's no way I was going to do that. So. But the navy was decreasing. Job positions are decreasing the size of the force, but they were trying to get people who were leaving the navy to go into the army because the army folks were going over to Iraq for, you know, twelve months to a year and a half to two years, and they needed more people in the army at that time. So.

[18:07] JOSEPH BOWMAN: When you were first discharged, what were some of the things about civilians that were difficult for you to deal with?

[18:15] ALICIA BARNES: Everything. So I think for me, there's two big things. The one is, I mean, and it's more of, like, a societal issue. The civilian world is not very equitable. When you're in the military, regardless of what someone's job, what someone's job is, you treat them like an equal, you know, unless you're enlisted in officer, and then, you know, officers are management. But the thing is, they still want to know how things are working, so they speak to you like you're, you know, a professional, I guess. And I feel like in the civilian world, we treat people based on what their job in life is, and because of that, there's a lot of devaluing people's worth. In the military, if we didn't have people to cook, we wouldn't eat. And they are paid the same amount of money as somebody who works on radar, like I did. And to me, that is fair and equitable. Not like in today's world, where somebody who works at a fast food restaurant makes half as much as somebody working at a bank or manufacturing. It's just like the civilian world is not as equitable as the military is. And the military already gets same raise every year. Everybody has healthcare. Everybody has three meals a day. Everybody has housing. It's, you know, the largest social organization we have in the world. And because of that, it operates, you know, as a team. The mission is the same for everyone, so everyone works together. Whereas in the civilian world, there's a lot of, um, scarcity. Like, people believe that there's a lot more scarcity, or. Well, there is more scarcity because people want to make. Corporations want to make profit. And because of that, it's not necessarily the people that do the best work that get ahead. It's the people that are. How do I want to say it? It's the people who are kissing other people's butts. And even then, sometimes they're not making it because they work somewhere where the just the pay scale will never be enough to pay for their living expenses. And I think because of that, in the military, everyone has each other's back. There's no, like, throwing people under the bus, because if I did that, I might die. You know, like, if my shipmate, if I do something to them that's gonna cause them harm, then, you know, they might not look out for me. So it's. Yeah, it's just. And I think that for a lot of veterans, that that is part of that is, like, the crux of the issue, acclimating back to civilian life, because even if I wasn't fond of somebody in the military, I still had to work with them, and we worked together well, whereas in the civilian world, it is just not like that.

[21:49] JOSEPH BOWMAN: What are some of your hopes for the future?

[21:58] ALICIA BARNES: Well, for one, I hope that you and your brother are both able to support yourselves in the future without working three or four jobs. I also hope that there are more opportunities for you because I know the military isn't available for everyone that needs to avoid more student loans. Like, you have celiac disease, so you can't go into the military. So I do wish that there was, like, an alternate path for public service. You know, like, if, you know, you were going to work for the state for four years as an engineer, like, maybe they would pay for your schooling at least, you know, your tuition or something along those lines. Whereas, you know, when I went as the military, when I got free tuition while I was in up to a certain amount of credits, I also was able to take college classes on the way to the war, which just seemed, like, weird to me, that we had professors on board, and I was able to take political science, and I think I take biology, economics, something. I usually took two classes at a time, and then I had $45,000 from the GI bill. But the thing is, not everyone can go into the military, and I think that's, like, that's changing rapidly because of the economy. And, you know, they can't. They can't make sure you don't get gluten while you're underway. So, you know, you'd have to be stationed, like, stateside and be able to make your own meals in order to go in. But I also think, like, I almost kind of believe that everybody should be able to do three years of public service, whether it be the military or, you know, vista. But the thing is, it doesn't pay enough to do it. Like, it's like $800 a month stipend. You can't afford to support yourself on that, you know? But I think that, you know, we could come up with a public service to help the environment, and people would have more opportunities, and the world would be a better place because of that, but, yeah, so I'd like to see some innovation, I guess, in the future. That's my hope for the future.

[24:26] JOSEPH BOWMAN: I don't have any more questions.

[24:28] ALICIA BARNES: Do you have any you want to ask?

[24:31] JOSEPH BOWMAN: I haven't been thinking of any, so. No.

[24:40] ALICIA BARNES: He was four months old when I got out, so, like, which. And he was also born in a naval hospital, and, like, I had my first son in a civilian hospital when I was in the navy, and I had Joe in a naval hospital in the naval hospital in Portsmouth. And it was just such a completely different experience. I still, like, don't know which one was better because, like, there were perks of having him at the naval hospital. There were perks of having my other son at the civilian hospital, but, yeah. Do you want to know? So when I had my first son, I was stationed in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, which was a naval air station joint reserve base. And because it was 3 hours away from Bethesda. I was able to have him at the closest civilian hospital, and for one, he was overdue by two weeks. So I had to go to the hospital at, like, 630 in the morning. Thankfully, it was planned, so I was all able to plan it out. But the nurse that was there at 630 in the morning stayed after her shift. You know, I think she was supposed to work till 330, but, you know, I had had him at, like, 230 or three, and she was like, well, it's the end of my shift, but I'm gonna wait until you're in the recovery room and everything. So I just remember, like, it was very, like, service oriented. Like, you know, she stayed with me the whole time and. And, yeah. And I just remember, like, the clinic on base was like, you're gonna be. You're gonna get a bill, but don't freak out, because it's gonna say you owe them thousands of dollars, but Tricare is gonna take care of it because it was approved. And I just remember thinking when that bill came in, I was like, they charged the military $400 for a bag they sent me home with. They didn't even ask me if I wanted it. It was like, $400. What the heck? So. And then when I had Joe, four and a half years later, we were stationed in Norfolk. So I was. I was able to go to Portsmouth to have him. And I just remember, like, in Portsmouth or any of the naval hospitals, when you have a kid there, you either have to be dilated to a certain extent or your water has to have broken, which is something I always hoped never happened. Well, it happened, so I knew as soon as I got there, they had to admit me. So that was good because I had heard horror stories of people, like, staying out in the waiting room because they were in labor, but they weren't four enough to long to be admitted to the naval hospital. And thinking, that would suck if I have to spend 12 hours in the waiting room, you know, thankfully, I didn't have to. And so he was born. And I just remember, like, usually every hour, doctor comes to check on you for the next couple of hours, and it was, like, every ten minutes because there were residents at the hospital and they were like, oh, we're just showing so and so how to make sure that you're not bleeding still. And, you know. And so it was that there was a lot of. But then the nurse, who was actually a corpsman, was like, if you need anything, just ring the buzzer. But the closet with the diapers and the formulas down the hallway. Just help yourself. And that was the positive part of the naval hospital, because we went home with, like, enough formula, little four ounce bottles that we didn't have to purchase any, you know, for, like, the first week. And I actually. I don't even think you can buy those out in town because they're, like, the little. The hospital ones with the disposable nipples and everything. And I think I was in the naval hospital for 23 hours because I knew if I wasn't discharged by 01:00 p.m. i would have to stay there for a full day more. So at, like, 1130, I was like, I'm ready to go now. Like, we're ready to go home. We're fine, you know, so, yeah, just different experience all around. But thankfully, both. Both of my experiences having children while I was in the Navy were pretty positive. So. Do you have any final thoughts, Joe?

[29:23] JOSEPH BOWMAN: I don't.

[29:30] ALICIA BARNES: I mean it. I guess when people thank me for my service, they kind of feel like. I mean, for me, I feel like it was an opportunity to better my life. So I feel kind of, like, weird when people thank me, because I'm like, well, thank you. Thank you for supporting the military so I could serve. And, like, not everyone can. Can go into the military, so I also feel lucky about that. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it.

[30:27] JOSEPH BOWMAN: It's a.