Amanda Garcia and Gratzia Villarroel

[00:03] AMANDA GARCIA: Hi, I'm Amanda Garcia. I'm 31 years old. Today's date is September 8, 2023. We are located in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I'm here with Gratzia Villarroel who is a mentor to me and a colleague.

[00:19] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Okay. Good morning. I am doctor Gratzia Villarroel I'm 61. Today's date is September 8, 2023. We are in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I am interviewing Amanda Garcia. She is a colleague and amentee.

[00:38] AMANDA GARCIA: All right, so we actually thought through our questions a little bit, and I think it's really neat that we've known each other so long and we have lots to talk about. So we kind of separated our questions into different areas, the first one being about the immigrant experience in Green Bay. So, first question, what are your earliest memories of arriving as an immigrant to the US, and how were those first experiences?

[01:09] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Okay. I originally came to the US in 1967. I was five years old, and I came from Bolivia, because I'm originally from Bolivia and South America. And I went to Grand Forks, North Dakota, which is very different than Bolivia because it is very flat and Bolivia is up in the andes mountains. And I think that the first experiences were just probably the shock of the difference in the landscape, the language, and everything else. But it was very. I mean, it was a very exciting time also, because we were with my mom, my dad, my brother, and so all of us were together as Latinos typically do. We went to stay first. The first step was staying with an aunt who was my mom's sister. And so the connection was family. And I think that's a lot of ways in which people come to the United States. How did you come, Amanda, how was your experience?

[02:07] AMANDA GARCIA: Yeah. So I always say that it's important to me to share that I'm the daughter of mexican immigrants. My parents came at different times when they were in their teens, and so they have their entire story of crossing over and coming into the US. Originally, they came in through California, and eventually they started moving north to Washington state, which is where they met. And so I can go more into detail about their experience, but I think for me, my experience has been as the daughter of two immigrants to this country. So it was very difficult. As you mentioned, there was the culture shock. It was how fast paced the US is compared to Mexico. My parents didn't know the language, so they had to learn very quickly, and they worked in labor intensive jobs. So my dad worked. Both of my parents worked in agricultural fields in Washington state at some point. I think my mom also worked in the restaurant industry, as a waitress and as a cook. And then eventually they met, got married, and my dad, well, heard that there were a lot of opportunities, job opportunities in Wisconsin. So we moved all the way from Washington state to Green Bay, Wisconsin, and that was in 1996. So that's really what brought us to Wisconsin. It was not family, which is typically what happens when families come over. They tend to go wherever family is located. But in my parents case, they have family in California and Washington state, but they decided to move for more job opportunities. And it has been a very unique experience because as the oldest child in an immigrant family, I became the person to navigate everything for my parents, from translating doctor's appointments to parent teacher conferences. Not only did I do that for my parents, but I remember even in elementary school, I was one of the few students that was bilingual. By the time I was second or in second or third grade, I was bilingual. So some of the newly arriving families that were coming to Green Bay, that were primarily mexican at the time and did not know the language, I became a translator for the students and for the teachers. So I became this intermediate between the students and the teachers. And it's evolved since then, now into my professional roles. So I always say that the children of immigrants almost become parents at a young age, were given a lot of responsibility. And so I don't remember a lot of fun growing up. It was more like, what needs to get done that day? And I almost became, like, the operations manager or the CEO of my family from the time I was, like, eight or nine years old.

[05:10] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yeah. And I think those are typical experiences, as you say, but they are harder given different circumstances. Like, if you're the oldest and if you're also very responsible and all of these things kind of come together and give you those roles. I think one of the things that goes into this is just, if we could just go a little bit more into it is, what was your language experience? Because you said you learned English by the second grade. How was it when you first came in? What was the program that they had? And then, you know, how did that school experience? And also kind of the bridging cultures, which you've already kind of touched on, how did that feel for you?

[05:47] AMANDA GARCIA: My parents felt very strongly that we only spoke Spanish in our household. It was almost like, I don't want to use the word forbidden, but it was, we did not speak English in our home. So the way that they handled the language, piece of it was, you know, you're young, you will pick up English once you go to school. So I remember only speaking Spanish when I was in kindergarten, and they just kind of threw me into school and told me to figure it out. There were ESL programs they were called at the time, but it wasn't all day. I remember getting pulled out of class maybe one or 2 hours a day to work through the language piece of it. But other than that, I was just put into English only classes. So by the time I was in second grade, I became bilingual. And just by being in an English only classroom and at home, I only spoke Spanish. So that was. And now I've heard from language experts, bilingual education experts, that if you want your child to retain your native language, that's probably the best way to do it, is to speak that language at home 100%, or start with a single language and then introduce English later on.

[07:05] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yes. And when I was in. When I came in, and again, this is 30 years earlier. Right. But when we went to North Dakota, obviously there were no. We were probably the only Hispanics in Grand Forks, North Dakota, when we came in. So basically, it was the same way. I was put into a classroom for kindergarten, and I spoke only. I mean, I spoke Spanish and had no english background whatsoever, but I could read in Spanish. So my mom took a cat in the hat dictionary for me, so the teacher would point out to a word in English, and I could read it in Spanish. And so that was my first experience with the bilingual piece, is going back and forth with a cat in a hat dictionary. And to this day, when I see any cat in the hat book, it reminds me of those first experiences. I think that over time, as you've said, I think it's different depending on the circumstances, depending on how many Latinos exist and how that works in terms of the. The language piece. But definitely my experience was going into an all english environment, and it was. My brother came with me, he was two years older. It was probably a little bit harder for him, because the older you are, probably you don't learn as quickly. If you're younger, you learn languages very quickly. But really, truly, we were both really speaking English probably after the first year. But the other thing that happened, and I'm not sure if this happened to you, is between my brother and myself. We always spoke English, even though at home my parents spoke Spanish, but we spoke English. And that continued because we went back to Bolivia after four years. And so my brother and I always spoke in English. Maybe that is how we kept the English over the years before we came back for the university.

[08:53] AMANDA GARCIA: So that's interesting. Well, I think now I speak English with my siblings, but when we were younger, it was mostly Spanish. And since I'm the oldest, I have younger siblings. It almost seems like each child is losing a little bit of Spanish each time. But I would say that we're all pretty proficient in both languages.

[09:17] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yeah. And I think that's, it's really hard to keep the language after the first generation and second generation. So it's really nice when you do keep that together. So I was going to ask you, how do you think that gender roles have impacted your family life, your community life, as being a Latina in the United States, being a Latina in our community and your family?

[09:41] AMANDA GARCIA: Gender is a huge, and I think gender roles in particular is huge in the latino community. For those who might not be familiar with these terms, I always think of Marianismo and machismo. So machismo is this. This term that means that you have to be the provider. As a male in a latino family, you're expected to be the provider, you're expected to be strong, you're expected to not show weakness in any way. Marianismo is this term that is trying, and I'm sure you can speak to this as well with your research, but Marianismo is this term that says that women have to be self sacrificing, they have to be humble, they have to let the men lead. Typically, they put themselves last. To give you an example, like at mealtimes, women are the ones doing the cooking, and they serve everyone, and they're the last ones to serve themselves and the last ones to sit down and eat. So that's an example of that. In my family, my parents being immigrants to the US, they were still very traditional, still held those very traditional gender roles where my dad was a provider, he always worked full time, and my mom would stay home and take care of my siblings and I. So she would work as a babysitter at home. I remember she would babysit for teachers in the school district, and that's how she was able to make some income. But generally, I think for now, me and my siblings generation, we're starting to break out of that traditional gender role model. But it hasn't been easy. I think for my parents, they don't understand that for their children who are born in the US, we're trying to navigate between these two identities of in Mexico, it's more collectivism, it's more traditional gender roles. And in the US, it's completely different. So at some point, I think we have to decide which route we're gonna go or which pieces of each we're gonna take on. And I think there's also the religious piece to it. So my parents are not only traditional in the sense of gender roles, but they're also traditional in the catholic sense. So to them, whatever is right and wrong is rooted in catholic values. And to this day, I still identify as catholic, but I see it in a very different lens compared to my parents. So I think for my parents, it was in their gender roles and the way that they view what men and women should do. It was rooted in religion. It was rooted in their upbringing, because that's what they were taught growing up. And I think they have also had to shift what that looks like in our household, in the US.

[12:34] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yeah, no, I very much understand what you're saying. Yeah, I've looked at and researched Marianismo, and it's a very pervasive way of understanding the role of women in Latin America because we want to be a lot like the Virgin Mary, sacrificial and very abnegated and almost without any moral fault, you know, and I think that women are expected to be kind of held up on a pedestal as mothers also. And so it's very hard for women who do not fulfill that role in that manner. And as you said, I think it's changing, and certainly the newer generations are going to make sure probably that, especially transnationally, that that changes. But it is very pervasive. And I think the way it really sifts into the family life is the way you mentioned earlier, that women are always and often the caregivers of the family in different ways. And it can start very, very early on. And it's hard to really kind of step away from that role because women are often expected to take the role of holding up family members, caring for them, you know, helping them through really difficult circumstances and all of these issues. And a lot of times, it's not that men won't do it, but the expectation is not there. Men might do it, but the expectation for them doing it is not there. So that is something that's really very pervasive, I think, in latino workplaces and in families. And so I was going to talk a little bit about what it means in the United States to be Latina in the workplace, and we can both talk about that. But I think that beyond the challenges that you might have in your family, there are challenges also in the workplace. And here's a good time, probably, to say that the way Amanda and I have met is through St. Norbert College, because we have both. I worked there, and Amanda graduated from there. So that is how we met. So I have been at St. Norbert College for many years. St. Norbert is a very white school, so to be Latina at St. Norbert is very hard, whether you're a professor or you're a student. But there are less faculty who are Latinos in general than students. And so it's very difficult to navigate, because I think that people don't realize how different an environment can be when a person steps into an environment and has to navigate it in ways that are not the way that you would do it culturally. So I think those are some of the things that you can see that. And I don't know if you want to maybe talk a little bit more about here, and then I can maybe go on. But you came in as a student, Amanda. How did you see it? How was it working there, and then how did that translate into a workplace for you?

[15:26] AMANDA GARCIA: Yeah, it's interesting because my parents experienced culture shock moving from one country to the next. But I experienced culture shock in the same area because I went through all the public schools in Green Bay, and I just grew up having friends that were from all different backgrounds. So I was very much comfortable in a space that was incredibly diverse. And I attended Green Bay East High School, which I think was one of the most or the most diverse high school in Green Bay. And I went from that school to St. Norbert College, which was a culture shock for me. I was mostly among white students, several of which, not all, but several students, were from very well established families that had parents that could pay for their tuition. In my case, I was the first to go to college in my family, and I come from a working class family. So just navigating it wasn't just the academic part of it, it was the cultural piece. It was, you know, not seeing people that look like me on campus. So that was a challenge in itself. I think it all. But I'm grateful for that experience now because I was able to learn to navigate those spaces. And now, as a professional, I am depending on where I'm. Where I'm working in. I've been both in very diverse workplaces and not so much not very diverse workplaces. And now I'm very grateful that I am working as the executive director of a hispanic resource center. So I get to work with Latinos, with the community, and also work with several organizations in the area. But I think it was a difficult transition. I think it prepared me for what I was going to face in the professional world. And I've learned that no matter what your titles are, as a professional of color, you almost have to be twice as prepared. You have to prove yourself twice as much as your white counterparts. And I'm still, to this day, I'm still facing situations like that where I present myself as the executive director. Someone might not know what my background is, but I have a master's degree now in international relations, and people often assume because of my identity and my age that I am not in the role that I have currently. So it's taken a lot of time and grace and learning how to respond in those situations. But I think, if anything, I would encourage anyone listening that being culturally aware, being culturally sensitive is a skill that's going to help you no matter what professional role you have. And in today's world, it's almost, it's almost, it's not even a want, it's a necessity. Like, you need to learn to work among people that are different from you.

[18:40] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yes, and now that's very well said. And one of the interesting things at St. Norbert College is that I've worked with a lot of international students also. And it's always fascinating how people from all different backgrounds can get along so well. And I think that is one aspect of our society. I think there's a lot of future in because we are going to become more diverse in the community. So it is, as you said, really important for people to understand how important it is to have that cultural competence. And I think one of the things that I really, every experience teaches you things, and I'm really happy about at St. Norbert College is that I've really learned to value education in ways that are so important. Just I'm seeing my students struggle, and sometimes my students shine. I mean, Amanda, you're one of them that has done so well and others as well. And I think that is probably contributed to my really strong commitment to education. I think even in my own experience, getting a doctorate was not probably what I had envisioned when I started, when I started college. But I know it became a really important goal for me once I had started, because I knew that the more I was educated, the more I was able to do and to contribute. And it doesn't mean that you can't contribute in other ways, but for me personally, that was my way to contribute. And so I really, in our community, I'm really, really committed to educating our latino community. And Amanda and I have worked together on various projects in this, in this area and organization. So I'll let you talk a little bit about that, Amanda, and then we can talk more.

[20:25] AMANDA GARCIA: Yeah. So I think as we think of the changes that are happening now in Green Bay, it's exciting to see just changes happening in real time. And now that we have more Latinos receiving a college education, kind of stepping into these professional and leadership roles when a major issue arises, then we all are coming together now to address what's going on and impacting our community. To give an example of this, we know that in the Green Bay public schools district, they're facing a budget deficit, which may require that some of our schools in the Green Bay public district close. And we know that this was going to impact disproportionately Latinos and communities of color. So this, it almost required that many Latinos come together and start having conversations on this and how it was going to impact our community. And it is what started something called Nulet, or the Northeast Wisconsin Latino Educational Task Force. And it's the first time that I know of in Green Bay that four different Latino led organizations came together to form a coalition to address an issue on education that was going to directly impact latino families. So it's been very inspiring to be a part of this coalition alongside other latino organizations like Northeast Wisconsin, Latinx Rising, the Latino Professionals Association, Vos de la Frontera. And they're all working with and for the community in different ways. And I think we're going to start to see more of this, not just with the latino community, but with other communities of color, that we're getting to a point where if something is impacting our community directly, the leaders of that community are going to start to step forward. They're going to start forming coalitions. They're going to start forming nonprofits initiatives. And it's only going to get stronger from here. So it's, it's inspiring to know that it came from a topic in education, because we all believe that education, Gratzia and I, especially, we believe that education is a pathway to success. So, and we're, we have to make sure that it is available for, for everyone in our community, especially the next generations that will, that will become the leaders and the workforce in Green Bay.

[23:02] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yes. And it's really exciting to be working on this in Green Bay, Wisconsin. For those who are listening, Green Bay has a very large latino population. And just a few statistics, we're almost at 18% Latino here in this community, which is almost equivalent to the percentage nationwide. Green Bay is one of the four largest, the city with the largest latino population. And in the Green Bay public schools, Latinos are 33% of the student population and likely to become 51%, a majority in a decade. So we are really seeing a huge transformation in our community. And as Amanda has said, I think we are also seeing the first wave of Latinos who now graduated from the school district and now are becoming young professionals, really have an impact. And we're seeing the blossoming of various organizations, latin organizations in our community, committed to a variety of issues. Issues. But we particularly are very committed to education. So we are now already starting to think of a charter school for Latinos in our community. Amanda's right now organizing this really huge festival that is going to take place probably for the first time in that magnitude in our community. So we're doing things that are first right now, which is a really exciting time, I think. I don't know if you want to maybe elaborate on that a little bit, Amanda.

[24:34] AMANDA GARCIA: Yeah. So in Green Bay, we have had large hispanic events during hispanic heritage Month. But this year, it grew from a group of latino leaders in the community. And we partnered with the University of Wisconsin Green Bay to put on an event called Istamosaki Hispanic Festival. And the goal of this event is, first to celebrate the contributions that Latino have made in locally and nationwide. And it's also an opportunity for families to come together. It's open to the public, everyone is welcome, but really with the making sure that it is highlighting our culture, our music, our food, and it's a family friendly event where everyone can come and enjoy. So I hope that this becomes an annual event. It's taken a lot of work and a lot of planning to put this on. But even in the planning stages, I was very mindful of the fact that although mexican, those who identify as Mexican in the latino community are, I would say, still in the majority. We have every latin american country and the Caribbean represented in Green Bay. So that's huge. And we wanted to make sure that this was not just a mexican festival. It was inclusive of all latin american countries. And even among the planning committee, we have Puerto Rico represented Colombia, we have someone from Nicaragua. So we wanted to make sure that we were hearing different voices, even among the Latinos in Green Bay, which is incredibly diverse and not only mexican.

[26:19] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yes. And I think one of the really fascinating things about this is that we are seeing in Green Bay, because it's such a tight knit community that the young latino professionals, the young Latinos organizing a lot of these events, too, are also well known and are really respected in our community. So this is why I say that Green Bay has a unique opportunity to make a huge difference in the years to come because it's a tight knit community. But our latino professionals are really going into those areas and into those circles and showcasing latino culture in such a way that will make it really possible to become a part of the fabric of the community instead of creating, you know, very big divides as what happens in a lot of other communities. So personally, I'm really excited about what's happening in Green Bay and really excited also about what's happening nationally, about the role that Latinos are going to be playing nationally and are already starting to play politically and economically, definitely, but also culturally, you know, the spanish language is spoken throughout, and food, latino food, especially mexican american food, and mexican food are just really is probably the favorite throughout the country. So there are many ways in which we experience latino culture now and are likely to see it more prevalent in the years to come. And I don't know if you want to comment, Amanda, on some of that.

[27:45] AMANDA GARCIA: Yes. And it seems like every time I'm reading the news, there's always a headline about a Latino or Latina being appointed to a position in government, to a position at the state level, even locally. I know that many of these young latino professionals that are growing and evolving here in Green Bay, we've had conversations about, you know, if we really want to make change in our area, we need to start preparing and running for office. So it's not just, you know, getting to and we're bringing other people along with us. So I am also excited about the fact that Latinos are becoming a voice of a large voice, and we are starting to gain political power, economic force, and we are a power in social change as we've seen with, with some of these recent developments. So I'm very excited. I think there's, there's so much more to come. And I know that the Latinos that are starting to grow into leadership roles, I think those will only evolve into. I envision a future where there will be the first Latino Latina mayor of Green Bay and eventually state representatives and national representatives. But in terms of how this will impact the US in the years to come, I think the US really doesn't have a choice other than to say that Latinos are a part of the overall fabric in the US and they need to start making decisions with us in mind. I don't think that's. It's not so much an ask anymore. It's something that needs to happen. So it's not just Latinos are here and we're taking up space, Estamosaki, as our event is titled, but that we have a positive impact in the community, that we start making positive change.

[29:50] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yes. And I will just add another statistic. There is the US now has the third largest group of spanish speakers in the whole continent, after Mexico and Colombia. So we really have a big presence in the United States and really in relationship to the rest of Latin America. And with that, I'd like to just talk a little bit about what I think is a good idea for our, you know, for our latino youth that is coming through. First of all, I want to say I'm just really excited to see Amanda flourish the way she's doing in terms of leadership and other people that are in her group and age group that are doing just amazing things, and they are starting early enough to really make a difference in the years to come. And I would just say that for a lot of other Latinos, that to be resilient is important. I think that comes almost without saying most Latinos, even to be here, have to be resilient. But to be resilient is really crucial. I also think is to. To have goals and to have dreams is really important. And to know that they are possible, you know, to really have visions for where you want to go and know that you can achieve those goals is really, really important. We have an environment that is changing. We have a community that is changing that will hopefully support our latino youth very strongly in the years to come. So I really encourage people to really take on those dreams and run with them.

[31:17] AMANDA GARCIA: And before we end today, I also want to thank Gratzia because she's been a longtime mentor to me. And just seeing a Latina in a professional role, it really started to open my horizon into what I could be in the future. And I saw that in order to get there, education is a way to step into some of those roles. So for some of us who are coming up, we know that we're standing on the shoulders of others who have paved the way. And it's taken several years of committed work and oftentimes frustrating work. But it's the people and the latino leaders that came before us, not just here, but in Wisconsin and around the uS, that allow others to step in to these spaces and to wrap up our conversation today. I think we all have different things that inspire us. I think for me, something that keeps me motivated is, I have a phrase in Spanish called alas irreces, which means roots and wings. And to me, what does that mean to me? Oftentimes when I give speeches or I have any type of public speaking opportunity, I try to highlight this because it's different for each person. For me, my roots come from my parents story, the fact that they were immigrants to this country. So when I think of my roots, I think of agricultural workers that are still majority Latino. If you've eaten fruit or any kind of produce, chances are a migrant worker has been the person to pick that food. So that's what keeps me grounded. I think of migrant workers. I think of my parents and the sacrifices that they had to make in order to be here in this country and allahs or wings. So for me, it's also a reminder to dream big and to, you know, really think about where I came from, my roots, but also think about what's coming. And when I think of wings or allahs, I think of my kids, because I am now a parent and I have children of my own. So anything that I do, anything that I do as a leader, as a mentor to other latino leaders, as an advisor, as just a community leader as well, I think of the next generations coming after me. What can I do today to make sure that their life moving forward as Latinos living in Green Bay is easier and there are more doors open to them?

[33:56] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: Yeah. Thank you. And I think, I would say again that I like you, that I think our latino community should just continue to grow, continue to educate themselves, and continue to know that they have a role to play and that they are going to become more and more a fabric of our community. And so thank you again, and thank you for doing this interview with me, Amanda. I really, really enjoyed it.

[34:19] AMANDA GARCIA: Thank you.

[34:21] GRATZIA VILLARROEL: It's.