Andi Rose Tiscareno and John Zamora

[00:02] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: My name is Andy Rose Tiscareno I'm 27 years old. Today is January 14, 2023. We're in El Paso, Texas, and I'm here with my boyfriend, John Zamora.

[00:16] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Hi, my name is John Michael Anthony Zamora. I'm 26. Today's date is January 14, 2023, El Paso, Texas. And I'm here with my girlfriend, Andy Tiscareno

[00:32] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: So I guess one of the things I usually start off with is, of course, I identify as a transgender woman. I have been, I transitioned in, or rather I started hormones in January of 2016, and then I started transitioning, or rather presenting as female later in 2016 about August. And I guess one of the things that's been our more popular stories is kind of how we met

[01:21] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: We met at a bonfire of mutual friends of ours, and they started the introduction with, hey, there's someone that's coming today. And just remember to be nice. And they brought them over from their college. Well.

[01:39] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I think one of the main things is that my best friend, she was going out with your best friend at the time.

[01:50] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Yes.

[01:50] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: And at that time, I was still presenting as male. So this would be probably a good year before I would even start hormones start transitioning. So pretty much what they were telling you is that this is how I identify. And just don't put your foot in your mouth.

[02:11] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Be careful what I say. But they started off with saying that we're both into the same thing, which was at the time, well, and still now the series the walking dead.

[02:21] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Yeah. And it was, it was kind of, I guess at the time for me, it wasn't too known to me about what was said between my best friend and you because, you know, at the time, I was just, you know, attending a party. But from what you've told me is that there was a little more into that.

[02:58] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: There was a warning, just be careful of what to say, what not to say. And I didn't understand at first, like, why would I say something like that? And then I got to actually meet you, and then I understood, which was.

[03:16] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I guess they're just trying to look out for me just because at the time I was still presenting as male. So, I mean, I was pretty unsure of myself. I wasn't really, I wasn't really too outgoing or too outspoken at the time. I kind of just like to keep to myself. This is one of the first times I really went to any party of college aged people that, you know, I was just trying to get out and I was just being there for my best friend. So I guess for me, I was just kind of focused on just chilling in the background.

[04:11] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Well, college day is a bunch of 1819 year old, fully hormone anxious kids trying to mingle, which was kind of.

[04:21] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: What, um, what described us at the time.

[04:26] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: So seeing you sitting, like, in the corner of, like, a wood bench, and I decided to sit next to you and introduce myself. And then to start off with, I heard you like to walk in dead.

[04:39] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Oh, yeah. And then, of course, that sent a whole spiral of just talking and describing the comics versus the tv show, and I. How I was an avid reader of the comics.

[04:55] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: We. Very awkwardly, we got. What's the word?

[05:01] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: We were just kind of vibing together, just poking each other, just talking, just hanging around each other. I remember that whole night I was trying to skate on one of those two wheeled skateboards, the ones you kind of just wobble to keep your balance and ride. It was. I felt a lot, but I remember you were there just kind of watching. But it was funny because, I mean, that was about November of 2015, I think. Yeah. And is that when Gabriel's birthday is?

[05:53] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I don't remember.

[05:56] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: And so after we met that day, I mean, I thought you were really cool, and, I mean, I didn't have a whole lot of friends at the time, or rather, I only hung out with maybe less than a handful of people and talked to far few less. So when, after we met that night, we. I don't think we really found each other on socials until maybe December, I believe.

[06:36] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: So a month or a few weeks later.

[06:38] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Yeah, pretty much. And from there, it was just kind of. At least on my end, it was just, we would like each other's posts every now and then. We'd comment on each other's stuff every now and then. And, I mean, at the time, I. I think at that time, I was just off of a. I was just off of a on and off relationship from a high school boyfriend. And at the time, I was. I had identified as a bisexual man at the time. And so, you know, at that time, I wasn't really looking for anything, but I. I was more focused on just trying to, in that case, survive just because being transgender and dealing with gender dysphoria and all that. There's a lot of depression and a lot of. Just a lot of identity issues that I couldn't really get a handle on. The. I think by January was when I. By January was when I had finally been working with a psychiatrist who was able to diagnose me with gender dysphoria and then suggest that I should go on hormones or hormone replacement therapy. And then from there, I would end up taking steps to preserve my fertility. And then directly after that was when I would start on hormones, because I wanted to make sure that should I. Well, of course, when I want to be a parent in the future, that I have certain options. And, of course, being a parent has been. I mean, something that I've always been, always wanted to be, which in itself is its own complicated story. But by the time I was able to start on hormones, it wouldn't be until August of 2016 that I would finally, you know, take the step to be the woman I knew I was. So I believe it was August. It was either August 18 or 18th or 21st that I would, what I call socially come out as Andy Andi. And it wasn't far after that that you reached out to me and we started talking again.

[09:52] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I stopped her.

[09:55] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: You say that. I mean, we were both kind of just liking and commenting on each other's stuff.

[10:02] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I think when you came out one of those days and I saw the picture, you put it yourself, and you had this huge smile, and it just drew me in, was like, I have to talk to you again.

[10:14] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: And it was funny because you always say that you were, you know, what made me want to. Essentially, what made me want to keep talking with you or what made me give you that chance is that you weren't creepy when I. When I first came out. The next few weeks, I got different messages from funny enough guys I went to high school with. I got maybe a handful of messages of kind of creepy messages. They're kind of acting like chasers, really, people who kind of treat being transgender as a fetish more than anything. So it was. You know, there's a lot of. Of rejections because, you know, people were treating me more as a fetish, more as a. As a. As a sexual object, that I wasn't really, you know, it wasn't something I wanted for myself. I wanted, you know, I wasn't looking for anything at the time. I was just looking to really be myself. But when you started texting me, you weren't creepy at all. You were genuinely interested in me. You know, we started out kind of fast each other. I mean, a lot of hormones. Yeah. And so, I mean, by the time we started talking, I was in my last year of community college. Yeah, I was in my last year of community college, and I kind of transitioned in the middle of that. Of that degree. So at the time, I was studying engineering, and, you know, for us to be talking and at the time, one of my other best girlfriends at the time was Barbie. She was really. She was really sweet and really obviously influential in my transition. So when we started talking, she was kind of the catalyst of, you know, pushing us to pursue each other, at least pushing me to pursue you a little more and be a little more receptive to you, which, I mean, you know, it wasn't too hard. You're cute enough.

[13:16] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: My idea was a movie date.

[13:18] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Oh, yeah. And then we both kind of fixated on the Alien series. So that was one of the first suggestions of a date that, at the time, kind of scared me because this would be my first time. This would be my first time, I guess, you know, going on any kind of date or really hanging out with a guy in any kind of setting, which kind of helped a lot because, I mean, throughout my transition, I've had kind of, I guess, a rocky relationship with guys because, I mean, during the time that we were talking, anyone that was interested in me in any sense was either a creep or any guys that I happen to befriend or have any kind of platonic relationship with, they seem to kind of drift away very soon, like, quickly, quickly after. And I don't know if that's simply because of, you know, the fact that I am a transgender woman or maybe they, you know, I think a lot of. A lot of my relationships with anyone, platonic or otherwise, has been the fact that a lot of them get hung up on the fact that they get hung up on my past, the fact that I used to be male or used to present as male. And even people who I meet now, you know, I've been. I've been on hormones for about seven years and out for about seven years as a woman that, you know, people now still, even people that didn't know me before I transitioned, as soon as they find out that I'm transgender, then things get weird because some people even misgender me. Some people even I get a he or a him every now and then, and it throws me off because it's like, you know, I'm presenting as a woman, I identify as a woman. You know, I'm not any part of my male self has only been, you know, has only been acknowledgment that I used to be male. But it's. I don't know. I think a lot of people seem to get hung up on that more of who I was rather than who I am now. But you didn't. You were one of the very few who didn't make that an issue or make that a, you know, the basis of our relationship, rather in the process.

[16:55] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Of us talking and then me being very interested to you. I had showed pictures of you to my coworkers, like, this is the girl I've been talking to. She's amazing. She's dorky, she's nerdy. She's just like me. And they kept going back and forth with that until I addressed it more to my sister.

[17:18] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Well, sisters, which, at the time, two of them were living with you and your parents.

[17:25] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Yes. So I had to show them. I wanted to show them and tell them more about you, that she is a transgender woman. And I wanted to be that close, personal thing to let them know this is something I was very serious about.

[17:42] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: And they seem to be, you know, accepting of it. I mean, I know your sister Lada was very accepting and very sweet about it. I mean, she kind of befriended me right off the bat from there.

[17:58] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: She's funny. You like Lord of the Rings?

[18:00] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Oh, yeah.

[18:05] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: And it was at some point later on, I think, while we're dating, not fully relationship yet, that I had started telling your parents. I told my mother about it. I hadn't told my dad yet, and I was just concerned with just the whole macho masculinity thing that you'd see in movies or tvs, especially with, you.

[18:32] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Know, being in a hispanic household. I mean, with both of us. I mean, that's always a scary thing, you know, just kind of confiding in something that isn't. Well, confiding in your parents is always scary, but especially within a hispanic household, it's always. It's always you're able to tell, you know, your sisters or your mom more easily than you are to tell your dad more than anything.

[19:04] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I wasn't scared of what they thought of me. I was more concerned of what they thought of you. And it was. That was perfectly fine with that until I got an argument with my other sister, Erica. It was just a minor disagreement on how things should be done around the house, and I guess she didn't like that, and she decided to tell my dad about you. And I felt that as a very strong attack. And it was not until. Not until later. Well, not too long after that, after my dad had found out. He wasn't upset that you were transgender or anything about that. He was just upset. We didn't trust him to tell him at the time, which even.

[19:52] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: It wasn't necessarily that you didn't trust him. It's just, you know, it was just having to build up to it.

[19:57] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I didn't know how to tell him.

[20:00] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Yeah, but, I mean, since then, your family has been very loving and accepting of us together. I mean, every time I come over, they're always so sweet. They, you know, they've never made any issue about it or any, I guess, any. Yeah, they never really had any real issue with it. I mean, throughout everything. I mean, by the time I finally got my name legally changed, which would be in 2018, and to when I would finally get top surgery, which was January of 2022, they've always been super supportive and super, you know, just sweet and kind, especially. Especially toward me with any milestone, you know, any of my personal milestones. They celebrated it with us together. And I know, you know, we finally started dating, officially dating, or I guess made it official December 21 of 2016. And from there. From there, I know we jumped in a little fast.

[21:44] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: It was a moment of passion.

[21:48] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I mean, after our first real date, which was in November, I believe. Or was it October?

[22:02] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: November.

[22:03] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: It was November, right? We went to go see a horror movie, of course. And I think that. I think I remember you saying that that was one of the. One of the moments that, I guess, made up your mind about me.

[22:23] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Very. Oh, just giddy. Very passionate. The way she expressed herself in that moment, especially in a horror film, that I genuinely thought that, I can't wait to do this again.

[22:45] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: And it was so funny because, I mean, that was the first time I really, you know, was able to truly be myself rather than just, you know, just being someone that, I mean, truthfully being someone that I wasn't because, I mean, what, for the 2020 years before I, you know, finally, you know, allowed myself to understand the truth about myself, I was. I felt like I was wearing a mask, like I was putting on an act for everyone else to be the person that they wanted me to be rather than the person that I was supposed to be. I mean, even before that, my previous relationship, which of relationships I can count on one hand that, you know, they were all. They were all built on the idea of me being someone that I wasn't. And at the time, before I was in a relationship with a man, as a man, it just didn't feel right because it felt like I was being. I was pursuing the relationship as someone I wasn't. Whereas now I was free to, you know, fully express myself and fully embrace myself as a woman. And even though we are, I guess, you know, a kind of straight passing relationship, I still consider us essentially a queer couple because, you know, I consider myself a queer woman. You know, I am attracted to other genders. Other sexes. But, you know, we're in a committed relationship, and I think that often confuses people because, you know, often being queer, being LGBT is considered. A lot of people consider it sexually perverse, which is just wrong. It's not what it is at all because people tend to overly sexualize it. But I am in a committed relationship, and, you know, that's on the basis of what we understand our relationship to be. You know, we understand our boundaries. We understand our. Yeah, I guess, our boundaries that, you know, we are committed to each other, essentially.

[26:03] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: People always had their opinions of a relationship. So in a while, of us actually formally had our. What's the word? Being together. I had mentioned you to another co worker of mine, showed, and she said, why are you settling? Like, what do you mean? Like, wouldn't you rather be with a real woman? Like, that struck a chord with me. What do you mean? She is a woman.

[26:28] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I remember you were very upset that day.

[26:32] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I was shaking with anger about it, but. And she also alluded to suggesting herself to me, like, no.

[26:44] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I get you. Yeah, that was kind of one of the not turning points in our relationship, but kind of, I guess, solidifying moments because, you know, seeing you stand up for me and especially when I'm not there, that really kind of proved your commitment to me because, you know, I. I mean, we've been together at this .6 years. We just celebrated six years. And, you know, I always. I have always doubted myself simply because of, you know, my depression. My gender dysphoria always gets in the way of that. It always makes me. Always makes me question my worth or, I mean, even my existence at times. But, I mean, I've always been worried that, you know, you would kind of not necessarily get bored, but, I mean, essentially, as a transgender woman, I feel I have limits in a committed relationship, as in, you know, I can't necessarily get pregnant. I can't. You know, if our relationship goes further to where we get married and want to grow our family, there are options, of course, to do that, but they can be very expensive and very politically charged at times. I mean, being transgender in Texas, for that matter, comes with a very politically charged climate, especially nowadays. Lately, Texas has been very anti lgbt and very strongly anti trans, that my rights are often brought into. Into question. And so that has also brought our relationship into question because of, you know, if at any point my rights are taken away, our relationship gets a lot harder. At least. At least that's what I think, you know, through my depression and anxiety, really.

[29:41] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I forgot what I was gonna say.

[29:48] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: I guess. I guess. How does like for you, you know, knowing the political climate of Texas and against, you know, people like me, how has that made you feel with our relationship?

[30:07] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I guess, at the time or now, really? I guess a concern of how do we progress our relationship without something being taken away from us now or later on? I don't care what people think or say. What matters is what they do. And if that involves getting between us, it's fighting for our relationship and for others to be themselves is something we're staying up for.

[30:43] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Yeah. And that has really brought me into the. Into the political forefront, because I've started becoming more of a. I mean, especially in the last maybe four or five years, that I've started being more of an activist and an advocate. Speaking before, like, city government, city council, being one of the ones to get up there and speak out for lgbt rights and especially transgender rights and especially lgbt youth rights, because especially here in Texas, lgbt youth have been consistently attacked. I mean, since I started transitioning, we had had very anti lgbt government representation. So that has really brought me to be more politically active. Up until, you know, even working with our city's only lgbt community center, I've become more of that, I guess, you know, political fighter. And I remember last year when that. When that shooting at. That shooting at the club in Colorado Springs, we had a vigil here in El Paso, and that was really one of the first times I brought you with me to something like that. And I remember you saying how it. How kind of on guard you were being at that vigil.

[32:51] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: I was scared. I didn't know what to expect, really. I was very upset that what had happened, but people coming. Going into where we had the vigil at a park.

[33:03] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Yeah.

[33:04] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: It just. I didn't know who might. Would come to do something to make a scene, to disrupt the vigil itself or something worse.

[33:20] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: But, I mean, even then that, you know, with us being in the relationship that we. That we're in, you as a. As a cisgender man and myself as a transgender woman, there's been. I mean, our relationship has always been called into question, whether it's been just, you know, like, how can you be with a woman like me or people asking if I'm ever scared that you'll, you know, wake up one day and just as in, wake up? As in, like, I'm considering me not a real woman. And these were friends that were. That would consider that, too. As if that wasn't enough of a backhanded comment that you would wake up one day and, you know, just not want to be with me anymore, which, you know, I'm sure is the case for anyone in a relationship, just, you know, the fear that the other will stop loving them someday. But I think throughout our time together, we've only gotten stronger together. I mean, I think every year we kind of prove people wrong time and time again that, you know, relationships like ours can work because, you know, we know who we are, even though, you know, we're always discovering something new, always discovering something new about us. That's kind of the adventure of it.

[35:09] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: One of those things that discovered something new was, I guess, my own sexuality at the time. I never really thought about it when discussing with friends about who you are and who you are. To me, like, I always thought of myself as straight, and she's a. A girl. And I guess coming to understand more of what I felt or feel is that, I guess, would be a queer man, too, as well. Queer, yes.

[35:42] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Which kind of goes into me discovering my sexuality. I mean, even identifying as a woman, you know, like, even with family and friends, they thought that I would be a, you know, just a straight woman attracted to men romantically and sexually. But that's not the case. I mean, I considered, before I transitioned, I considered myself a. I considered myself bisexual. And even after I transitioned, I still considered myself bisexual. And as time goes on, I tend to consider myself more pansexual than anything, or at least pan romantic. But, you know, it's been that growing within a relationship and our, you know, discovering. Discovering new things with ourselves individually that has, you know, grown our relationship and made it more, I guess, not necessarily diverse, but just made it more intricate, really, within ourselves and, you know, with how long we've come, how far we've come together, I know there's still, you know, we're still going strong, and there's still a lot more to learn about each other and a lot more to learn about ourselves together that, you know, I'm in it for the long run.

[37:25] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Yes.

[37:35] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: But I guess, you know, for others who are in relationships like ours or identifying like us, you know, it's possible. It's just, you gotta give yourself the chance first.

[37:48] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: Don't be afraid to be yourself.

[38:01] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Which kind of brings it back in that, you know, for people who identify as transgender or non binary, you know, transgender men are men, transgender women are women. Non binary people are non binary. It's just, you know, embracing them for who they are and not necessarily for who they were, which has kind of been the basis of our relationship. You've embraced me for who I am, rather than who I was, and kind of the same for you. I mean, you know, I embrace you for who you are and for the man you've become since we, since we started dating. I mean, we're still pretty young. I mean, we're in our twenties, sure, but we're still kids, really. But, you know, seeing how far you've come since then and how much you've grown, it, you know, it makes me proud of you, because you've done so much, not just for me, but for yourself and for our relationship.

[39:09] JOHN MICHAEL ANTHONY ZAMORA: From that quiet, timid nerd sitting on that bench by the bonfire to the outgoing, expressive, passionate person and beautiful woman you are today.

[39:22] ANDY ROSE TISCARENO: Thank you.