Andrew Anderson and Elizabeth Anderson

[00:00] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Andrew Avell Anderson. I'm 63 years old. The date is April 19, 2022. I'm in the storyCorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with my best friend, Elizabeth

[00:21] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: My name is Elizabeth Anderson, and I'm 60 years old. The date is April 19, 2022. I'm in the storyCorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with Andrew, my husband and best friend. Okay. All right. Good morning, Andrew.

[00:45] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Good morning, Elizabeth

[00:48] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what it was like?

[00:53] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Sure. So I think I'm very fortunate. I grew up in a foreign service family, so I grew up all over the world. I was born in Bolivia, where my mother's from. My father was a foreign service officer in Bolivia. And from Bolivia, we went to Ecuador. From Ecuador, we went to Vietnam for the first time, which was 1967 68 69, which was a tet offensive. And then from there, we went to Nigeria, where my dad was with Brigitte Robbasanjo, who became president of Nigeria. And we lived there for four years. And then from there, we traveled back to Vietnam, to the fall of Vietnam. So in 1975, I spent my 13th birthday in Saigon, six months before the fall of Vietnam. And then after Vietnam fell, we headed towards the United States, because there was no other place to go while my dad was being reassigned through the state Department of where to go next, I ended up going with my father to Afghanistan, where I graduated high school. And then after high school, I came back and joined the navy.

[02:01] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: What are some memories that stand out from your childhood?

[02:07] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: I think the biggest thing was travel, the fact that we could visit countries all over the world. I mean, during the summers, we'd either go to Europe, because my dad loved Europe, and so we would spend time in Germany, Spain, England, France, you know, all over Europe, Italy. And then other summers, we would come back to the United States during the summer, because my dad was from Oregon, and we used to go out to the farm. So we used to actually work on the farm that my grandfather had, which was a big. What they call back then, it was black Angus cows. So he had a big black Angus operation. So we would actually go out there and work some of the summers. So my summers were growing up everywhere. I mean, my dad was a big traveler, so we take roadside trips in the United States, or we'd be overseas, and we go into Europe and drive or fly everywhere. So those are great memories. So those are kind of the big things for me.

[03:04] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay. Can you describe something you're proud about in your life?

[03:11] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Sure. I think the biggest thing that comes to my mind is our son. I think I was raising a young man to the point of where he's now, where he is in his life at 28. I think we've done a really great job, and I think that's one of the biggest, biggest highlights of my life. And I've done a lot of different things, and, of course, our marriage.

[03:31] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Thank you. You're welcome. How has your life been different than what you'd imagined when you were younger?

[03:39] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Well, it's a good question because I always thought I would do my father. I've always thought that I'd follow my father's footsteps. Right. Because he was a great. He did great stuff with the foreign service, so I thought I'd become a foreign service officer. He was a Navy man. So I went into the Navy once, went after the Navy. I thought I'd be going into government, but it didn't happen that way. So I look back on my life and say, you know, things take different routes. And where I am today, in relative terms, looking back and looking forward, I don't regret a thing that happened. I'm now with the federal government. I'm in a much different place than my father was. He was a foreign service officer. I'm with customs and border protection. It's a whole different game, but it's still, you know, part of national security, part of defending the country. So to me, I think looking at that perspective, although I didn't go a straight line, it was kind of meandering around because I was in the private sector for 25 years. That's where we met, and I don't regret it. I think it was a good kind of. Sometimes life leads you down a path that you know it's meant to be versus what you think it should be.

[04:44] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And you enlisted in the Navy?

[04:48] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Correct.

[04:51] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: What was your decision in doing that?

[04:54] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: That's a good question. So the way I'd like to look at it is, and this is my story is my father and his brothers served in the second world war. And then we had cousins and relatives that both sides. On my mother's side, which is bolivian, we had Bolivians that came to United States to get educated, but they also joined the service to fight in Vietnam and then went back to Bolivia. And then my father's side, which were Americans, fought in the second world war, and then the cousins and relatives have fought in Vietnam. So for me, it was kind of one of those things where, well, everybody wanted to do it, and I always wanted to do what my dad wanted to do, which was be a Navy man. So when I enlisted, it wasn't a question of if I wasn't going to go in the navy, it was when. And so I had, I wasn't. When I was overseas, there wasn't a lot of education in reference to whether you go in enlisted or officer. You just go serve. So that to me was the important piece. Get in and get served. And that's what I did. And so when I enlisted, I look back on it now. It was here in Washington, DC, because we had come back here and actually nobody helped me with the enlistment. I went into a recruiting office by myself, and they've told me afterwards, you should have never done that. You should have somebody go with you, because what they do is they recruit you into certain things and they don't give you contracts. And I didn't know that, but when you enlist, you sign a contract. And so I negotiated my contract. And so the guy told me, he says, you're pretty ballsy to do this. And he said, you're only, what, 17 years old and you want to go in the navy and you're talking to me about what you want out of the Navy. Normally it doesn't happen. So the recruiter was kind of impressed. So he said, okay, well, I'll give you what you want to. Well, here's what I want. I want to go into Seabees. Then he asked me, he said, well, why do you want to go into Seabees? I said, because my dad was a seabee. He goes, really? I said, but your dad's a foreign service officer. I said, yep, but he was a Seabee back in the war. And I said, his uncle was a marine and his other uncle was in the army. And I said, no, I want to be a CB. So they put that under contract, said, you'll be a CB. Otherwise I would have gone to the fleet. And if I would have gone to the fleet, who knows what would have happened, what type of life I would have had. So I had negotiated everything before I enlisted, and then I enlisted. I didn't tell any. My mother was in Florida at the time and I was in DC, and I didn't tell her until I went to Florida to visit her that I had enlisted. And my dad didn't know anything about it because he was in Egypt. And I kind of communicated to him in a letter that I had enlisted and I was going to go off to the navy.

[07:27] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And what did your mother, what was her reaction?

[07:30] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Her reaction was positive, actually. She thought I was going to do that anyway. And so I thought, she thought that would be a good way to get out of where I was at and where I needed to go in my life. And plus I was going to pursue my education. And so it kind of worked out pretty well. She was very supportive, and actually, I went to boot camp in Orlando. Back then there was three boot camps, San Diego, Chicago, Great Lakes, and Orlando. And Orlando was the only one that had the co ed boot camp. So it was kind of interesting. So I actually was lucky because mom was in Fort Myers, I got sent up to Orlando, and then from Orlando, I got sent to Port Wanibi, which was my training center for the cities.

[08:11] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And you were in what battalion were you in?

[08:14] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: So.

[08:16] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Explain that to me.

[08:18] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Sure. So when I graduated, I graduated my class, I was sent to my choice of duty. And so I wanted to go to Port Wahme because there was a story that you hit the Pacific Seabees and you had the Atlantic Seabees. And I did. My dad was in a Pacific CB, so I said, I want to be a Pacific CB. So they said, well, the only way you can get there is you got to go to the training center in Port Wanemi. And I said, well, how do I get there? And he said, well, you just got to request it. And if you're at the top of your class, you get your choice. So I did. So it was the top of my class. I got the choice. I went to the Pacific CV, support, Wyoming, California. So when I was there, I went through all of the training. So they went through all training. I was atop my class, and I got to select my first duty station. So in the top of your class, you get to go wherever you want. So I got to go to San Diego. And the reason why there was a small battalion there, oh, it was a small unit. They called it. It's called CBU 405, Construction battalion Unit. They don't exist anymore. And so my first tour of duty was in San Diego, and then my second tour duty was to go to battalion. And that's kind of where, that's what you heard about before. So my battalion was MCB three. So naval Mobile Construction battalion three. So in order to be able to be a real kind of seabee, if you will, you had to do a tour in the battalion before going back to shore. So I spent two and a half years in the battalion, and as a battalion in the battalion, we would rotate to the Pacific. So I got to tour Okinawa, Diego Garcia, the Philippines, mainland Japan, and then back to wainime. So that's kind of what my two and a half years was, was this tour of duty. And I moved up the ranks within the Seabees. So I was, at the end of my tours, I was an alpha company commander, which was pretty good for somebody who had spent only five years in the navy.

[10:06] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And of all the overseas assignments, which one, you know, which one had the most impact on you or which one did you like the most or dislike the most?

[10:21] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Okay, that's a good question. So, you know, looking back on that, I think about my first tour out of the battalion was Dio Garcia, which was the Indian Ocean. I had no idea what that was about. Right. So I think I shared that with.

[10:40] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: You in the middle of nowhere, in.

[10:41] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: The middle of nowhere, out in the middle of the Persian Gulf, this little island. It looked like a full footprint. And that was my first detail. I was actually standing on the detail. So out of the battalion, the main body goes to Okinawa, and then they detach. Right. So I was on the detachment. So my entire career with the battalion was detachments. And again, because they say you were at the top of your class, at the top of your ranks, they'd send you detachments because they trust you more than they would in the main body. So my first attachment was dear Garcia. And so I've never been there, never knew where it was, didn't know what it looked like. And here I was heading out to the middle, and I was the only one for the battalion heading out there because I was meeting up with other cv's from different battalions to create a team that was called the peer team. And they've never done that before. And so that was kind of a new kind of effort that was going on when I was in the cities. So we went out to. So I was all by myself, ended up showing up at Dio Garcia. And it was british. It was british owned. So in order to get into the island, you had to go through their customs. And in order to get through their customs, you literally had to go through a orientation of, as a us citizen on a british territory, how you can behave or not behave. So we had this british officer kind of read us the riot act of what we can and cannot do on the island. For example, don't chase mules, don't chop down trees, you know, leave things alone. So it's really interesting. So I spent my tour there, and that was my. My favorite tour, because it was kind of like one of those things where you were kind of a kid on an island, right. With a bunch of other kids. And they were only like, they were. The island was supposed to hold only a thousand people. We had over 2000 people. And the reason why was because right around that time they were. They were doing the iranian hostage crisis operations. So we ended up being a footstool for the ops. So what they did was they flew out of. They flew out of the carriers into, into the. Into Iran to try to save. Try to rescue the hostage. That was. Turned out to be a disaster. But we were there on station. So that was my camp. That was part of my campaign, my first campaign. So that was, that's the most vivid one. My second one was mainland Okinawa. Sorry, mainland Japan, where I was stationed at Iwakune, which was 55 km from Hiroshima. And of course you know about Hiroshima, right? That's when I dropped the bomb. So it was really interesting to be there as a navy person among the people being liked by the Japanese during that time period. But it was interesting because it would close the base down and all military personnel from the US had to stay in the base during the two days of the recognition of the dropping of the bomb because they didn't want us out of the streets and stuff like that. But it was a great tour. I traveled all over Japan, you know, met some great people. So those were my favorite tours while I was in the Navy.

[13:53] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And then you went back to San Diego after?

[13:58] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Yes.

[13:58] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay.

[13:59] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Yeah, that's right.

[14:00] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: That's right.

[14:00] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Then I got picked. Then I was picked to go back to San Diego to go to school, to finish my education because they were willing to pay for it. And that's how I got a commission out of it.

[14:09] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay.

[14:10] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Okay.

[14:10] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: So you went to officer corps?

[14:13] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Went to officer school. And then from there, after that I headed to the east coast because that's kind of where I ended up being, you know, with the reserves.

[14:21] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay, so you. Let's see. So you. I guess you discharged. I mean, how is it?

[14:32] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Discharge is a good word. Yeah. From the Navy, from the active duty to the reserves.

[14:36] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay.

[14:37] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: And then I stayed in the reserves for a little bit. That was during the height of the Iran Contra engagement. And actually they were building up Tegucigalpa, Honduras. They were building up a big operation there. And I was picked to go because I spoke Spanish, but I turned it down because I said, that's not something I want to do at the time. So that's kind of what happened.

[15:01] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: So when you got out of the navy, you finished your education at school. You went, where was that?

[15:09] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: At American.

[15:11] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: San Diego State.

[15:12] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: No, I had finished San Diego state.

[15:14] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Oh, while you were in the navy.

[15:16] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Yeah.

[15:16] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Oh, okay.

[15:17] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: And then I headed to the east coast. That's how I got.

[15:20] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay. And we met. That's what we met.

[15:23] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: We met in 88.

[15:24] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yes. Okay. So you weren't deployed in a war you call your I the service that you were in, what's it called? It was campaign service.

[15:38] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Well, so it was a cold war period, because that's what they call it. It was called peacetime Navy. And so we had. So I served in that timeframe, right. Post Vietnam, which was from 76, to the Gulf War, which was 1990. So in that period, it was considered the cold war period. And then within the cold war period, if we were actively involved in engagements such as the iranian hostage crisis or the Grenada invasion, the Grenada action, they were called campaigns. So, yeah, so I've got. Was it one campaign?

[16:15] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yeah, and.

[16:16] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Yeah, that's what I'm looking at my medals up there. So that's what the medals are for. Yeah.

[16:20] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: So, and I guess. I guess. Why did you decide to leave the military? And.

[16:31] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Well, I think. I think the reason why I left the military was because I think what ended up happening was the reality of what I needed to do with my life versus what I needed to do in the military. Now, my mother would tell you that I sort of stayed and retired out of the navy, but I look backward and I said, it doesn't make a difference. I still did what I wanted to do. I still got the education that I wanted. I did my service to country. I still am as a civil servant. So I didn't see beyond. Once the gulf actions occurred and then the Iran Iraq war happened, it just was. It wasn't something that I needed to do.

[17:08] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Okay. Was there anything or anyone that helped you transition from military to civilian life?

[17:18] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: You know, it's a really good question. I look back on it, and I think that the transition I did on my own. Right. I mean, back then, the Navy didn't. As opposed to today. You hear a lot of stuff that's going on with the veterans today. We didn't have the programs they had back then. I mean, Vietnam was winding down. A lot of people weren't happy with Vietnam. They weren't happy with the service people leaving. So nobody really paid attention to us kind of thing, because, remember, I was sharing with you, I used to have to dress in civilian attire to get on the base of. And to lead the base, I had to change into civilian tires, couldn't wear my uniform because he wouldn't allow us to do that. I mean, today it's completely different. Everybody wears a uniform everywhere. Yes, right. See them in the metro, see them on the bus, whatever. So they didn't have the programs when we left. They just basically said, oh, you're leaving. Great. Here you go. Here's your papers. Make sure you get your discharge papers together, move on. They didn't talk to me about anything like transition work or anything had to do on my own. So I didn't look at who may have helped me. And of course, Leon Baradat was very helpful, and so was my dad. So my dad was a big help because he basically understood that I needed to come back east. He figured, hey, you need a job, you got to figure out, you know, we'll help you do that. So to me, you had to do it on your own. I mean, today you've got so many services out there. It's just, I think it's great.

[18:42] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: I guess. Is there anything that you. I get, I mean, you didn't, you didn't have a whole career in the military, but is there anything that you wish civilians understood about the military?

[18:54] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Oh, you mean how they would understand it?

[18:57] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yeah, because there's a very low percentage of people that actually join the military, you know, and it's, I mean, that's true. You know. Is there anything that you wish you could explain to them about?

[19:11] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Well, you know, I would say this, I would say to any civilian, have subject to your son as well, is, you know, you need to think about doing service to country. Military is one way of doing it. And as I get older, I begin to realize that it's not only the military, but that was a lot of way, that was a way out for a lot of people to move up, you know, economically, socially, and education. Military is great for that. I would say to civilians today that don't overplay the idea that somebody's a veteran. As I talk to more veterans, we tend to agree that the way people are talking about now, they really talk about, oh, thank you for your service. And I will talk to, I talk to veterans all the time, and I belong to veteran groups. We all don't really appreciate that. But thank you for your service means what? Doesn't mean anything. I did my, I did what I wanted to do, and I joined the service. I did it for my country, I did it for myself. That's all that's required. Right. And I get it. It's a backlash to what happened during the Vietnam war.

[20:22] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: People were treated very poorly.

[20:24] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: When they came in, Hanoi Hilton, he was an aviator. He was in the prison, and when he came home, he wasn't necessarily appreciated for what he did. But I think I would tell civilians that. Don't overplay the idea that serving your country is more than what it is. It is serving your country and saying, thank you for your service, it rings hollow. It's more like, you did what you did great. Move on. Because that's what it is. I think, to me, it's service, and we all do that. Civil servants should be thanked for their service as well. Right.

[20:58] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Right.

[20:59] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Hope that answers the question.

[21:01] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yes. Okay, let's see. Is there anything else that.

[21:12] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: No, I really appreciate that. I'm glad we're doing this because it's always good to put it on record. I mean, you didn't know me in the service.

[21:19] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Right.

[21:19] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Who knows what it would. Who knows where we would have been? Right?

[21:23] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Right.

[21:23] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: It's a different life.

[21:25] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yes.

[21:25] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: It's a hard life. I mean, your uncle, you saw that through your uncle's eyes and stuff.

[21:29] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: You move around a lot.

[21:30] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: You move around a lot. I think you would have had a hard time with that.

[21:33] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yeah. I have to say, just one of the things is that we've been anchored here in Virginia for, what, over 30 some years, which is probably is very different from how you grew up.

[21:52] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Oh, yeah, right.

[21:54] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: You moved around a lot, and I can remember in our early years that you would, you know, it was like every couple years, you know, you'd be thinking about, well, you know, what should I do next? Where could we go? Where could we move to?

[22:09] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Right. That's a good point.

[22:10] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And so how does it feel that you've, you know, you've had this place for a year, you know, for 30 years.

[22:21] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: I think it's been. I think it's been. I think it's been really good, because I've learned that you don't have to. We still travel quite a bit, and we travel almost every other year to different parts of the world, so it's the same thing. We raised Matthew that way. Our son, he's traveled and he's got the bug, and he wants to go travel as well. But I think having a center point is very helpful, not growing up with a center point, if you will, because every two years, we'd roll over to, or every four years, we roll out to a new country. I think it's been really good. I'm very comfortable with where we're at today in reference to the not moving as much, but being able to travel and come back and stuff. And you gave me that opportunity when I was consulting. That was a kind of a way to deal with that. Right. Because I traveled to the middle of the country. I travel to Mexico and come back. So it was good. Okay, that's it?

[23:14] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[23:14] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Okay. Okay, that's it. Can I ask a couple questions? Is that okay? So, Andrew, you mentioned a few metals. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about those and what those meant to you. Yeah. So, you know, so the metals that we're talking about are. I don't know, it's going to be on radio, but just to show you. So this is what. This is my case. Right. You see a lot of veterans that have that. So the whole point of this was just basically, you know, just kind of like, did you do your duty? You know, did you get a price for it? So the ones that really stand out is the campaign, because a lot of times today, it's interesting. Today. Today you have guys that went to Iraq and went to Afghanistan, right? Well, I didn't, but I was in Afghanistan before Afghanistan was a war, so I spent two years in Afghanistan, and I know Afghanistan inside and out. So what do the medals mean to me? Well, that means that I've accomplished something. Right. Significance. And you stand a little bit above somebody else if you got a particular medal versus another medal. And that's within the meta, between the veterans community. And I've noticed that today. You hear people say, I'm a combat veteran. Okay, what does that mean? Well, I was in Iraq. I was in Afghanistan. Okay, well, I'm a campaign veteran. What does that mean? Well, I was in campaigns, so that's what the metal means, really. Kind of. Just kind of getting distinguished, if you will, for service. So that's what those medals mean. And then how did the two of you met? I think someone mentioned the public or the private sector. Yeah.

[24:55] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: So we were both working for an architectural engineering firm. Andrew had come in under one program, and I came in under another, and we were actually designing and building us embassies overseas. So we met on that program, so.

[25:18] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: On the yemeni program.

[25:19] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Yeah. So he. I was doing some of the design of the embassy in Yemen, and Andrew had been out there doing some technical. Technical stuff. And you actually worked with Seabees when you were out there. And so. And I guess during that transition time, I was working with a good friend of his, and he kind of introduced, sort of introduced us when Andrew got back.

[25:55] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: And then, as your son was growing up, did you talk to him at all about your military service and was it something that you wanted him to consider? Oh, yeah, we talked about it quite a bit, and I still think he should serve his country, but, you know, he's going to have to make that decision. But we did talk about it when I was growing up and when he was growing up.

[26:17] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And we'd always go to the, there's a Seabee memorial at the, on the memorial bridge or by Arlington Cemetery. So we would, we'd go there a lot and we'd, you know, go downtown to the Navy memorial and, and of course, just.

[26:34] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: But your uncle.

[26:35] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Well, also, you know, during our travels around the country, we'd always go to, you know, look at ships and just different, different military installations just to give him an education.

[26:47] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: You know, he's a lawyer. And I've said to him, I said, you know, that's the easiest way to get into service is being a lawyer, because as a JAG officer, you're better than what I had. Right. I.

[27:02] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: And is there anything either about.

[27:06] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Your military service or just in general.

[27:08] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: That you really hope he takes away.

[27:12] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: From sort of this conversation?

[27:15] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: If he listens to it in the future?

[27:20] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: I think he's already learned it. And that is just, if anything gets out of this message, is the fact that we've had a great relationship. She's learning more about me as we still, we've been married 32 years, so I think Matthew will take away what I think he's already doing, which is he's got real integrity and he's got a real sense of service because he said it before. You know, one of the reasons why he's working where he's working is because he really wants to get back to the community. And that, to me, is what, exactly what I've said as a service. Right. So I think that's really great. So if he's done that and then reinforces it, the better.

[27:58] ELIZABETH ANDERSON: Fantastic. Well, thank you both so much.

[28:00] ANDREW AVELL ANDERSON: Thank you. Thanks for making this happen. I really appreciate that.