Andrew Leith and Jeremy Bucher

00:05 Jeremy bueker. I'm 33 years old and today is November 11th 2020. I'm in Chicago, Illinois and I am here interviewing with Andrew lace my friend and colleague.

00:20 All right, good afternoon. My name is Andrew Leith. I'm 38 years old. Today is Wednesday the 11th of November 2020. I am in the City Palatine outside of Chicago. And today I'm interviewing my friend and museums Colley Jeremy bueker.

00:43 All right. Yeah, and I guess what we can just start with a kind of just our background how we can we came that you can meet each other. I am I started here at the national Hellenic museum is an intern. I'm well, I was earning my Master's Degree at Loyola University Chicago and just sort of kind of fell into collections work. I needed an an internship for my program and I decided to check out the national Hellenic Museum. My focus is really in urban history in labor history and especially here in Chicago. The Greek Community has a big a big history in in both our Urban environment and also in the lake, so I figured that would work well for me and then I'm kind of got drawn into the collecting aspect and making information available having done so much research myself. I understood how important that was in it.

01:43 Something I just sort of fell fell in love with.

01:47 Awesome. That's great. And I am something of an honorary Greek. I have very old family friends who have been involved at the national Hellenic Museum in terms of supporting the great work for 20, maybe 25 years. I don't know exactly how will the National Hellenic museum is Rhino. The family's been yo going to events and things like that there for a long time.

02:17 So so my Greek American Family stories that I've kind of adopted in a de facto kind of fact and have been kind of the source of a lot of conversations between you and me over the years. I've learned more about the Greek Community hearing your experiences as well. Like oh, yeah. I know. I've noticed that too or if it's just one to compare Yaya stories and and and think in terms of impact in the growth of the communities and it's such but I guess so I got involved in some my job is I'm a director of cultural programs in museum practice at the Chicago Cultural Alliance and like Jeremy. I have a background in museums and Museum studies, but it's

03:17 Kind of unorthodox. I don't have a graduate degree in museum studies my background in anthropology. And in fact on my tax forms my profession because it's so difficult. You know what you actually like label yourself with what your profession is. No, I am still listed as anthropoligist. So

03:41 My background in anthropology when I was just a young buck 20 years ago or close to 20 years ago now in undergrad I was volunteering at the Field museum. I had an internship then volunteer and I was doing lab processing work for material that had been excavated in Chinatown because I'm a historical archaeologist in training and during that time someone tap me on the shoulder and said hey, there's this cultural connections program and it sounds really interesting and you should check it out because in my interest was Community engagement in historical archaeology and

04:27 So I checked this program out and I had an opportunity to travel all of these different parts of the city including the national Hellenic Museum The Ball Z kiss Museum of Lithuanian culture National into American Museum all these different corners of the city and sit down over food with folks were interested in exploring their own culture and other people's culture and I made a lot of friends and of course, I was like 22 or something like that. So I asked a lot of questions and life went on and years after that. I I work at field museum for a long time. And what's the grad school for historical archaeology. And then cuz I'm crazy went to grad school again for historic preservation and return to Chicago from working for icomos and looking for a job and hear this cultural connections program that started at the Field museum.

05:27 Back in 98 had become Chicago Cultural Alliance and I did email check because I thought the name sounded familiar and I realized I'm a part of Chicago Cultural Alliance. I've been getting regular email from them all this time. I applied and and here I am today and I think Jeremy and I met so I started at Chicago Cultural Alliance. I think you and I met a 2018 set right. Early 2018. Yeah. Yeah.

06:04 So yeah, that's that's my background. I think we have some some commonalities there don't we well, and I mean even just that description of being 22 and being exposed to all these different peoples and cultures while working in this field has been exactly what my experience has been just coming into contact with you all the groups that I've met and all the people that I've interacted with sand and institutions I've been able to go to feel like that's really just

06:35 2 really cool aspect of CCA, but also just a really cool aspect of working in this field generally get exposed to so many people that you would have probably just never met in your normal day today life and you can build all these great connections and then you learned so much more about what you're doing on your end. Just from what you hear about other people doing if there are any similarities outside of that. You're still kind of floating in the same in the same area.

07:07 Yeah, and you know, we're all occupying this city Chicago and the outlying suburbs and and we're interacting whether we're aware of it or not. So it's it's really fun to actually carve out a space in our lives to actually sit down and chat and obviously, you know what there are

07:30 Kind of underlying themes for programs in conversations and things like that what always comes out are these commonalities that that we all have and I think some of them are probably not all that surprising but other times it's really surprising cuz it's coming out really like, you know, we have a friend that went to high school together or it is a commonality like a your favorite Taqueria is also my favorite Taco really even though we live in two different corners of the city, you know, it is that that's the anthropologists are always looking we're looking for quantitative and qualitative data.

08:10 I'm not very interested in qualitative data and quantitative data. I'm much more interested in a qualitative because I love having conversations with people and you know this the environment of the alliance not that it needs to be the total subject of our conversation. But you know, the environment of the alliance really is a group of friends and it's so fun. When we do have things like our annual meeting or activating Heritage eye Workshop series or are Mosaic Gala to see people walk through the door because people walk to the doors and their arms open and they they run the other people and that they may grab some coffee or something to eat and they're sitting down visiting and it is like a family reunions and I mean so often I think back between now being 38 and having been at the alliance for three-plus years.

09:10 When I was 21 or 22 and in that cultural connections program and how much it meant to me to be this this young kid that was interested but felt like I was teetering between you know, kind of like an outsider looking in to being

09:30 In that experience where I felt like very early on like I was part of a community in part of a family whether whether we had the same cultural background or not now so yeah, definitely an end and that's one thing. I've always I've always noticed about you you're but you're very friendly and affable person very easy to speak to and speak with and that's that's really like at what I wonder about this time as a how is how is that adjustment been for you having to be so separated from all of these people?

10:02 Yeah, and I would say likewise. I think that's one of the reasons why I felt like we we clicked very very quickly it when when we were involved in stories of immigration Chicago. I mean it and Margaret and you were joining us for that. But yeah, I mean

10:22 It's been tough because I I feel like

10:27 Is a person really like being near other people and chatting and and listening so much. I enjoyed learning from people and I I feel fortunate that all of these new technologies are developing in Rapid succession in response to this need the technology were using today was storycorps it it's phenomenal but there's a part of me that feels that

10:58 Sitting in a dark room miles and miles away from from you and and away from from Amy and a from other people Neil and it's just it's not not the same as getting together and I feel really fortunate that I that we have these relationships that we can lean on right now that we've built by actually being in the same room together and getting to know one another and I feel like it has to be hard. I think a lot about about young people who are graduating from high school or college for a trying to

11:34 Slowly grow into adults, whatever whatever that means and develop new communities in the process of that and I just I can't imagine how difficult that would be trying to do that sitting at home in front of your computer. Let alone young people who try to get into the dating world. And I mean, yeah, that's a whole different conversation.

11:58 Yeah, that's I mean, I thought I've been thinking about the same groups of people as well throughout this entire time. My my experiences of the past the past four years it would be so radically different if I didn't have the opportunity to just sit down and be with people being in the same room and just to even have a conversation about nothing just just a new person and A New Perspective four years ago. I was working at a daycare in in the walking and I kept talking about all these things. I was reading about in history in these four year olds with Huber me, but they didn't know what I was talking about. They couldn't care less.

12:46 That the group of people around me, but also I realized it was time for me to move in a different direction. I didn't get it to get with people more interested in these topics. And that's that's how I made that decision to go back to school to go to the grad school, but

13:03 Where I am today is largely because of the connections. I was able to build just just by simple conversations with people throughout the halls in in in the lecture halls in the history building and then even just meeting with you it was you came to visit the museum and then you kind of get the rundown of what was going on here and what directions we were trying to move in and I feel like that's what brought us here today, but those just simple conversation starting off on us us showing you the mess in our storage unit that we cleaned up. So yeah, right right now I can't imagine how difficult that was for a lot of people and to end even

13:49 You know that what I said when I took over the collections manager position or Margaret was there for my last week of the previous collections manager and I took over on March 9th this year and so 4 days later on March 12th. You were told me I'd be working from home until the 18th of March. Okay, that's that's reasonable and then 18th of March. That's when they decided. It. Looks like it's going to be a little longer and then just kept getting extended and and we've kept our doors closed since then and so most of my interactions have been through Zoom meetings or a phone call people. I would have normally met with him person in the museum and that's headed like a hold of difficulty to just

14:39 Basically interacting in a way that communicating what we effectively need here and what we're effectively doing here and it's it's just added a whole another layer to it difficult and challenging but again, like you said because of the technology leads were still able to do it and that that's hugely important. I think.

15:02 Yeah, it's it's it's interesting because you know to to a certain degree you definitely or I definitely have moments were I I feel isolated despite the fact not I mean, I'm at home with my partner in in with our baby and I feel so fortunate to be able to be at home with our baby who was born October 10th last year. So the majority of his life has been a life in quarantine and I get to be here for all of these special moments and I get to be here for these moments because I can be working on programming and I can be checking in with with our core members and I can be trying to troubleshoot his needs all of it from home. So, you know, that's that's amazing, but they're all also these these moments where I feel isolated because my favorite part of my work.

16:01 Is is the social component of the work sitting down with somebody talkin through challenges trying to understand what their goals are and then kind of working together to try to brainstorm and figure out the best way to approach those goals. It's a very human to human way of working. I am I'm probably the very least anal retentive person in a museum collections. Not that I don't care about accuracy and not that I don't care about organization, but I feel very always go back to that. It's not even if it's a passive activity. I always go back to that anthropological training and maybe it's possible training. Maybe just me as a person but it's it's those relationships and it's the the process of

17:01 Storytelling with Collections and in using objects to tell stories and getting at getting at the heart of of of why you collect what you want to do with these collections is so much more fun for me then making sure that everything is in the right category in a spreadsheet or in a museum database, you know, so I am I say and I've never had to stay in gingerly you you mentioned you know, it's a mess and I will say all contraire. I think that you guys are doing an amazing job, but I have no cuz I've never had to say this to you. But but I do occasionally say no there are at the end of the day. There are two things that concern me when it comes to collections care to to the the the more descriptive aspects of and it's one knowing what you have and to knowing where it is.

18:01 Can do those two things and we have a difference in opinion as to how to arrive at that I'm almost always going to say. Hey what's compromised? We'll do it your way as long as you know what you have and where it is. It's amazing how that has been basically the focus of my time up until this point was just finding what we have and where it is and and used you saw that changed its to our second collector second floor storage area that massive shift. I went from just sort of boxes everywhere. Nice labeled show that mean they're still labeled on Post-it notes, but we're we're getting there and that's because I know I'm going to

18:46 Position but when I first got here and I'm basically up until recently my my entire roll here was Finding what we had and where it was and then putting it all together into something. That's slightly more manageable it still ongoing project and I imagine that projects never going to end but we'll get the Shelf properly labeled.

19:20 Imagine imagine at the end of the day with that the biggest accomplishment other than you again. Knowing what you have until you have it has to be the access component cuz you've mentioned to me, you know, how many emails and phone calls you get not only from Chicago but from all over the country occasionally even international calls. And so that that access component has to be no pretty exciting. I recently had someone reach out from from Thessaloniki in Greece doing a project out of my believe a dissertation about Carrie GOC. The shadow puppets 7 Shadow Puppet Theater, and she specifically that we just put online. So with with digitizing our collections & Archives we've been able to reach reach more people and that was one of those things that we need to just what we need.

20:20 Send it all first so that we knew it was there and then we were finally able to make it available. And so I've spent some of my time here in the darkness. We finally figured out how to switch the lights back on in my office. This morning is a mess of change if it's it's literally like today and I've been able to spend some time scanning some documents and things for her that I'll hopefully be able to get to her soon enough, but that that is such a huge thing here was just we have this just incredible Collections and they just were not really available for so long and and I have had a lot of people reach out and an express my gratitude that we've been moving in that direction of kind of opening up opening up the archives in our Collections and a NetSpend that has been something that

21:10 States wanted to do our community is wanted for a very very long time. You're they pressured us for a very long time to have a digital at digital component digital access Greeks. Don't buy a large live in Greektown anymore remix SF spread out and the freeway that in part destroyed. The original Greek Town is now the access Spain to Greektown for a lot of Greeks who live out in the suburbs. That's what they come right in all the western suburbs from there. And so, you know, if it's the shift towards more digital that we were forced to do starting in March at something that I missed our communities modded for a really long time, but we just didn't know how to do it and we weren't really we do I need the infrastructure wasn't there but actually implementing it was was kind of thing that was holding us back. But again,

22:02 March of this year we didn't have a choice anymore. And so that that's where you look into that that direction and that's people have been responding really positively because again, it's just finding things and opening them up.

22:15 But I mean you guys have kind of lead you've definitely been a flagship organization in terms of thinking about things like oral history and it in in developing databases that can accommodate telling stories to a broader public and with with the investment collected access like you probably one of the first organizations in the Chicagoland area to develop to take on the collective access in to develop that for your needs right. I know of two other ones there is a I can't think of the name. I think the

22:57 Subway in Morton Grove Arboretum or on a Botanical Garden. I can't recall has use Collective access and then there is a music archive here that I cannot recall the name Mama. I apologize, but we worked with them when we were trying to figure this out and then actually did leather archives and Museum a lot of people are they not only did Collective access but they coated their whole front and back-end themselves, which is a well as you have the skills to do it. You can have you can Implement flight of access for the cost of your staff which would melt leverich. I believe this is her name over there. Should she did such a great job with that and that kind of goes back to jail again how we met but also just the benefits of this the cultural Community here in Chicago. We were able to lean on all these other institutions.

23:57 And then people who are able to help guide us through this process which was which was a huge process because we had to figure out something that could accommodate all of our needs and and still really be affordable at Enterprise Boynton. And so it was nice to be able to lean on all of that expertise. Yeah, and that's I mean, I think that that in so many ways is not the absence of of Chicago Cultural Alliance and other like-minded consorcia, but it was their whole impetus for it is that there have been for at least 50 or 60 years small community-based culturally specific organizations museums store close to society's community centers and they're doing amazing work and they're doing everything they can to preserve objects to preserve and share stories.

24:57 We all kind of individuals are going to just by default have limited resources and and when you can get together and you can discuss know what has worked and what hasn't worked. We can all learn together. I think you know where all stronger is a community and that this isn't really a community of folks where there is an aspect of competition, you know per se because it's it's not necessarily like well, if you have a prospective audience member they'll come to one organizations event at the expense of another organization and I I think that it's been proven time and again that the folks were going to be interested in exhibitions and in events and programs and activities are going to be interested in all of them. It just kind of getting the word out there that here's what's going on in the city here are the different opportunities and giving us then

25:57 It's a community time to get back together and then reflect upon the sand and strategize. So yeah. Yeah, I think Collective access in the the Notions of learning together definitely ties into that so so beautifully, oh, yeah, definitely end and I think that's that's something that we've really come to realize right now and everybody had to go everybody had to go digital if they wanted to maintain Denny's any form of relevance. And and like I said, that was we were already moving in that direction anyways, and so that the shift actually was a little bit easier for us. I think that it was possibly for others, but everybody was basically doing within within their own Define parameters the same thing of trying to figure out how do we get people to stay involved with the with our Institution?

26:54 When they can't come to the institution and that the only interaction can be can be done can be done digitally and I think one of the best examples of that was I want me to feed the world history workshop and I've been thank you for joining us for that Amy as well. When we just we just brought everybody together. And this is this is our one area of expertise like you mentioned at the national museum. That was that was huge. That was one of the most Innovative things that they had really down here in and pushed it really really has paid off dividends it going into the future and then still continuing to in that we had that at infrastructure in place to be able to share that. I'm sure that knowledge with everybody else and kind of get just just at least give people jumping off point. This is some of this is one more thing you can do to get people involved with your with your Institute.

27:54 Send a text not something that if you do it, no, he's going to try to come and participate with me. It was something that everybody has their own little flavor to it. So it's not going to be an us-versus-them mentality and then it's definitely something I've heard. I've never experienced that with any institutions here as it's been this is what we're doing you do this. Maybe we can help you with that or maybe you'd be happy to join us and do this and that's been. That's made it a lot easier and I think that's also made it a lot easier for for everybody just to get through this time because again, not everybody eat was really set up to go digital don't the way that we were and there were there were things that we had to the ra Justin adjustments we have to make as well and we were we were in a very good position starting off, but we're still missing that

28:52 That that person interaction and it says it's not going to be the same but it is more or less when I died you it is filling in the gap for the time being it's it's also something I'd like to continue as we can have people back in the museum. I don't want I don't want this to just go away and say all we were only doing this now it was

29:14 Rick Weaver, like I said moving in this direction and then the pandemic was that final push over the edge and we really got to show some some capabilities that we we have people didn't know we had we didn't even know we had never built a digital exhibit before but I was exposed to Emeka the platform in my Graduate Studies and when they mention digital exhibit I said, I think I can do this just like just give me a chance and we'll see if we can work it out and we started on the free platform which is amazing that you can take you create a free digital exhibit free platform and share that with the world and then you can replace that with something else or you can do what we did and pay $35 a year for an upgrade.

30:04 Multiple exhibits at the same time. So a lot of what we done is been supplemental and I'm hoping that a lot of the other institutions see if that way as well. I'm going forward and then I'm on hoping that our experience.

30:22 Is he can be shared with others so that they can make that because I got our biggest issue here is that again Greeks Greeks are by and large living in Greektown. They're so removed from the the physical insta not. Obviously not emotionally internet and culturally remove are there physically a physical barrier and so by creating this this digital exhibit and doing each other digital initiatives. We've been able to kind of yeah, and I think that was kind of weird roundabout way because of the pandemic is know there's been such height for the past 10 or 15 years around digitization and I believe I understand and embrace the significance of digitizing collections, but there are a lot of exhaust

31:22 Information I think surrounding digitization one that digitization is an end in and of itself know which you know, it isn't a I mean it's you know that the largest story is access know and end in ER to the digitization keep the reservation and and I've never heard this from from from anyone in the alliance, but I know you go to Chicago area would see Meg Chicago Museum and exhibition group or you go to some of this scene Midwest Association of Museum groups. Can you hear the stories of folks Angle now that I have everything else can I can I can get rid of the the old files are crumbling anyway, right? And and please don't please don't do that.

32:12 Because in a really the largest story is is in my opinion and experience. This is the story of of access and democratizing our ability as a community to engage with the weather there Chicago Cultural Alliance Corps members or wherever the content is coming from is to engage with that content. And how does Be Be Inspired and see your life shift and change as you compare your own experiences with those that are shared through these digital collections. So this notion of of access and this notion of what you're doing with what you've digitized. I think of something that I've seen so many inspired A-ha moments with with with our members and and it's beyond our members because Kobe was pushed us.

33:12 Evaluate all that we've been digitizing digitizing digitizing and think in terms of how do we share our stories with a broader audience and that's so often involves sharing our stories in a manner that is free and and and frankly having events that are free having programs that are free heading online resources, like Chicago collections Consortium that are free. It really does mean that there's a much much much broader audience that is going to partake and I know that Noah can get in the past folks would say, well, you know, you need to charge a nominal fee for this or that because then you know, the people are actually going to show up and and I I will concede that occasionally, you know with with free free events and with free resources, you know, you can get somebody who looks around for a couple seconds.

34:12 And continues on their merry way to something else. But even even if it's only in a 1in 100 people who open something up or look into something it if it's worth it if that one person makes a connection between their life their family their community and in somebody else's

34:36 And

34:44 Oh, yeah, absolutely fun. It's it's funny to that you use you use the term democratizing and it it's just this this weird irony because museums I'll have always occupied the strange space where we buy things are locked up behind the walls and we have we are the Arbiters of what can be seen at now at a time when people are really restricted from coming to the Museum's they're getting more access than they've ever had before to the collection and it's it's just strange. It's just this strange concept that by restricting access physical access. We are opening to a broader access to our collections to people and an in a wider audience our time. I was able to link on Google analytics to our our digital exhibition and their people all over the world that are that are viewing this exhibit people. That would have never had the chance.

35:43 Exhibit end and something I didn't mention was this was going to be a physical exam at that our first floor. We were in the planning stages in March and then of course that was the end of that and we were we were really really really afraid that we weren't going to be able to share this story. And this was as if it's a pretty cool exhibit at the photo and then we just decided to go with olmeca and now there are far more people that have been able to access that they never would have been able to see Emily and I like epanova maybe started Academia, but no I should really stay started. It's a step back from Academia it it's started I think with our thinking in terms of community service and Community engagement and Community organizing and Community planning and social justice and it's acknowledging all of these stories. Are there folks in the

36:43 Please do know these stories and it's it's been amazing to see larger organizations larger museums really rethink and rather rather than think in terms of how we have to bring it all in to record it thinking about it as what it is. No, you bring an object to be able to tell a story and if you can build relationships and if those relationships result in communities maintaining their own object, so they can tell stories now these digital platforms that we have really do you enable is inter-organizational relationships so we can sell me to tell stories together and we can affect a much much broader community of people and you see social justice.

37:35 Ideally both in the process of of what you're collecting and what opportunities you you are making in your community or in other communities in terms of engaging local artists engaging local performers and such but also thinking in terms of how these collections are being used to advocate for communities in terms of getting local Alderman in Chicago local politicians to partake in a program or an online exhibition and then say Hey, you know that the community here has has a need has an idea that's really really a great idea and and bringing folks who can work with us to promote actual on the ground change through museums and storytelling which is you know, exactly why I got into this is because I so firmly believe that that objects

38:34 An effect positive change when those objects are being used by the communities that that made them to advocate for themselves for their own needs.

38:56 Yeah.

39:01 Absolutely, and I died. I think the first step in that direction is just opening those archives and opening those collections up and just let let people see what's there because it's you know, sometimes the Museum 2 don't necessarily know how or where that that object came from. But as soon as you make that object visible somebody's going to be able to tell you and and that's that's really important aspect of about we do our work better and end and have a more community-based Focus because without the community we don't exist, you know, I really like wiser.

39:51 Great.

39:55 Absolutely.

39:59 Good.