Andrew McDonald and Ahmed "Flex" Omar

00:05 Names of metaphysics Omar I am 38 years old and today is Thursday, May 28th, 2020. I am in Chicago Illinois. And today I'm interviewing my friend and colleague Andrew McDonald.

00:29 I'm Andre McDonald's. I'm 24 years old. Today's date is Thursday, May 28th, 2020. I am in West Springfield Massachusetts. And today I'm being interviewed by my friend and colleague on the flex Omar.

00:49 Thank you for joining us today and Drew where does your story begin? We can start with your childhood where it where were you born? So I was born in.

01:06 I was born in a town called Schenectady, New York Spence.

01:14 The first I think your two of my life in in Albany. My mom was doing a PhD in Albany and my father was going to school and then also working there but let me the majority of my childhood was spent in New Hampshire. So after my mom finished her degree, she got a job working at the University of New Hampshire is a associate professor of literacy. So our family moved to a town called Exeter in New Hampshire and I lived there from when I was probably like two or three

01:58 Up until I was maybe five or six years old.

02:04 And then we moved to a town called Durham, which is close by that's where I spent most of most of my childhood.

02:15 I went to went to school in Durham Maine on my mom worked at the college that was right in town. So I think kind of geographically that's where that's where it starts. So you're in a East Coast.

02:32 Person, I guess so more more by more by chance than by choice, but

02:43 He said you were born in New York, right?

02:46 Yes, I would like while I was that for your parents living there the time what's what's the New York Connection in New York at the time? Cuz my mom was getting she's getting her PhD there at the University of Albany a thing.

03:10 And my my dad was also doing I think of part-time master's program and then working part time as well, but didn't spend a lot of time there in Madden College your parents.

03:27 They did. Yeah, I think kind of like right at the end of their college experience. They both went to Brown in Rhode Island, and we're friends and then I think sort of got together in there and they're sort of last year at Brown.

03:48 Escorts, where are they from your parents or they also from the East Coast?

03:55 Yes. Oh, well. No, I guess my dad is from Connecticut grew up in Connecticut. His parents both are from upstate New York. So my grandparents on his side and they met in high school there from Tiny Town in Upstate New York called Callicoon. So they met in high school. They were in the same graduating class that the whole graduating class was 19 people. Should I tell my dad's parents met? My mom is from actually from the Chicago area originally so she was born in Winnetka, which is like a kind of a suburb of Chicago.

04:53 And

04:55 Her dad my grandfather was a chemist. So he studied at MIT and for a long time taught at the University of Chicago. And her mom was did she was a teacher for a little while but she's always been like a really accomplished pianist. And so she so my mom grew up like all the way through high school and Chicago and the family picked up and moved to New Jersey and when they move to New Jersey my grandmother started a Community Music School, which is now called just that Judith G war end Music Center.

05:47 I think for initially was started for people sort of in the suburb where they lived and then expand it to the larger area.

05:59 And they still live in New Jersey. So so yeah, my parents met in college and you know have kind of bounced around New England sense, but I guess always been sort of an east coast East Coast family at heart.

06:16 What are your early childhood memories the New Hampshire?

06:23 Yeah.

06:27 Music kind of everywhere

06:32 My dad always is a huge sort of Music nuts kind of an audio file. So there was always music in the house. Sometimes it was really good music. Sometimes it was really bad music he kind of like everything there are always instruments in the house and still are so my father is not a musician really he can kind of like noodle around on a guitar but not really any proficiency. My mom is like I think her parents tried to force her to like learn how to play violin when she was younger and that kind of ruined it for her. So she's never been much of a musician either but just a big culture of Music in the house, you know, like I said just sort of like

07:28 You know, we're making dinner there was always music playing, you know, always music playing in the car. I'm really grateful that I grew up actually like as a young kid listening to

07:43 Like an interesting music and not by nursery rhymes on Loop

07:51 Is my dad would always have stuff playing in the car. So, you know, definitely a lot of a lot of music in the house and that's definitely still the case when I go home and visit my parents. I was I was always outside a lot as a kid.

08:10 You know, like riding bikes. I had a friend who lived down the street named Mike and so we would kind of like after school meet up ride bikes, you know build build forts in the woods and in that kind of stuff actually funny. He is he was a few years older than me. This is my friend Mike and

08:36 We used to build these really like elaborate sort of like tree forts in the woods. We would like this got us into trouble a couple of times but there's a day you know, what year where it's I don't know what it's called. I think it's like a large bulk pickup or something where you can put you know, your Bulky Trash on the curb and they'll come around and pick it up so I can have like an old TV or like a dresser or whatever. They'll come ticket though, you know the kid will put it out on the curb and I'll come pick it up and that was like for us for a couple of years. I was like Christmas because it's like this all of this cool jump on the side of the road. That's up for grabs.

09:20 And so we would we would gather up all of this stuff and build Esports insert in the woods between our houses and then we would end up getting in trouble in like, you know, our parents would make us all all this junk back to the side of the road and put it back.

09:37 But not as funny he was he was always really into like the maintenance of these of these forts, which I which looking back is really interesting because he ended up joining the military right out of high school and stuff. So very ordered personality. I was definitely I was definitely less interested in maintenance and I think more interested in building, but so that was that was when I was going to preschool, so

10:16 Anywhere between like seven years old and 10 years old maybe in any was a few years older than me, but back in the woods you so we had all these trails near us like even as I got older, you know friends and I would go and we would meet up and walk on the trails and sort of is a big land preserve. So there's trails and then some of it is just Wilderness and so we would kind of

10:46 Intentionally just like walk off the trail and try to kind of like maps of the area out. Sometimes you you know, get a little lost. Sometimes you pop up in like somebody's backyard in the next town over so lots of you know bushwhacking and Outdoor Memories, definitely and being younger.

11:10 As fast as estimating

11:13 So after elementary school, did your family move or were you still in the same area where all the way and my parents still live there? So stayed all the way up through high school and then went to went to college and in Western Massachusetts and that's more or less where I still am but my parents still live in Durham go back and visit them a lot.

11:44 When are you how is how is your high school experience? You mentioned, you know living out there in a lot of outdoor stuff. Is it a small town experience or what was the experience like

12:02 Yeah, this is kind of interesting because it was a small-town but it was also a college town. So the University of New Hampshire is Right In Their Own.

12:11 Which meant that like during the summer it was very small town. But otherwise, it was very very populous town. So, you know you grow up kind of like your school is a throw a stone's throw away from you know, Fraternity Row and so, you know from a very young age sort of

12:34 Observing this you know sort of college State School culture is what we called it.

12:44 So in some ways it was a small town in some ways. It was it was a little bit. It felt like a big town.

12:52 Is there any interactions with the the high school in the college at all?

13:00 Not really like I mean outside of like telling your parents are going somewhere and then actually going to a college party not a lot of interaction, but

13:14 I mean there is certainly a feeder school for the for the University with a lot of kids from your school ended up there. I thought I'd say of of the of the people.

13:31 Who won. Going to 4-year colleges out of high school at a like 30 or 40% of them ended up going to UNH were faculty or staff at the school? So aside from getting like the in-state tuition discount. You could also get like a faculty and staff discount. So

13:54 You know and I was something that was never knows I finished high school and started thinking about going to college it and even

14:04 Even before that I was pretty set on like I don't want to go to UNH like I need to

14:15 I need some space basically, you know, I was friends with a lot of older kids and it's like they would finish high school and it would be this. Okay. I'm going to go off to college now on this year's just a life transition, but it's like I'm still going to go home twice a week to do laundry. And you know, I'm still gonna see everybody. I know every time I go in the grocery store and I was something that you know, I really was not appealing to me and I was fortunate enough to

14:52 It's obviously to have the option to look elsewhere. So so yeah, so I have a lot of good really good memories and there are a lot of really good friends from there. But at the same time it's very it's kind of a bubble. It's a small town.

15:11 Lots and lots of white people lots and lots of you know

15:18 I wouldn't I wouldn't say conservative, but I wouldn't stay open-minded either.

15:26 Interesting, so

15:30 When you when you were when you were going to high school over there what subjects of what would really sparked your interest when you're in high school?

15:40 Man, I really enjoyed writing.

15:50 I think more because I was good at it. And I knew I was good at it then anyting. I was always always interested in.

16:03 It's like social studies sort of like anything having to do with like anthropology or history or you know the ways in which like

16:18 And this isn't how I would have described it then but thinking back, you know the ways in which like history influences culture influences kind of the way people treat each other something that was interesting to me that and it is of course still really interesting to me. I had a very a very good high school experience. I had a lot of teachers that I that I really enjoyed and I had the opportunity to take like multiple classes with the teachers that I really enjoyed and to really get to know them.

16:57 And yeah, it was it was it was actually kind of tough, you know, because I had there were two two teachers who really stuck out to me. So there was an English teacher named. Mr. Mr. Brewer name is Martin Brewer probably like 6566 really tall British, dude, and keep taught all of Utah. I mean British literature, so he taught like a class on Shakespeare. There were two British literature classes, Utah to writing class and I took

17:31 All of the courses all of the courses they taught while I was there and he was very I mean part of the reason we got along eventually was it was you know, he was very into music he would you know, he would start class and everybody would sit down and be like, okay well before we start I just want to show everybody this song If you would play some like

17:56 You know Kate Bush or some like maybe really terrible eight is song that he was really into for some reason it and you play it and you would stop it and then he would have this really like sharp analysis for how this random song like relates to a scene in Hamlet or you know, how how there's a theme in here that mirrors Beowulf or whatever and you know, that was the music that we didn't like so like he was a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. I'm not that I'm not much of a Bruce Springsteen fansite always kind of you know Prada and for that and so he was he was really wonderful guy and then, you know, another teacher who really stands out and use social studies teacher named Lou Moross.

18:56 Who similarly I took a ton of classes with?

19:02 And you know, he talked like history. He taught psychology like an intro to psychology course. He also taught this class that was it was like a sort of historical culture glass specifically about the 60s. So like this guy was he was born in 1950. He was like coming of age during the whole like cultural revolution that was happening during the 60s. He was at Woodstock. He was at you know, all of these like a storical events. There's some remember him showing us a video of

19:43 Some year

19:46 I guess this wasn't in the sixties but it kind of goes to show like how involved this guy was like it was some here. Here's a big met stand from the new yorker's some year that the Mets won clinch the pennant or won some big games and all of the fans basically like rushed the field and you're watching the video and you know, you see people running in and all the sudden this guy runs in and like takes up the picture and puts them on his shoulders and it's Lou Meraz this teacher somehow like was at this game.

20:19 He was just like he was a lifelong teacher. I had him the last thing the last two years of his teaching career. So he retired the year that I left and you know, we were we were very close it's funny because he was with him and mr. Brewer this other teacher, you know, we didn't like each other at First cases, you know, what kind of like buttheads and then sort of slowly I think, you know giving giving people a lesson for me and giving people a chance, you know, you need somebody you think you understand then you think you know what they're about and how they're coming at you you make assumptions about how you can benefit from knowing this person about you know, who this person is and

21:09 For me anyways, like a lot of the times I'm wrong at first glance. And so that was like an important moment to sort of help me think about that and realize that like my first impression of people doesn't always determine.

21:25 You know what? I what I can learn from them who they are all of all of these things so your high school experience and shape a lot of you know, who you are, you know right now.

21:42 I was at College. I mean, I think like I learned a lot of like really important things in that High School experience. I also learned like a lot of really like toxic problematic things because it was you know who this is.

22:02 A very white bread town, you know, I think like in our whole High School grade of 180 people. We had like maybe 5 students of color in the whole class. So it's a very isolated place and it's

22:15 You know this Illustrated picking up I think certain ways of like looking at the world and looking at myself and looking at other people and thinking about systems of power and Having learned those, you know, started to learn about those things in this really isolated place.

22:37 You know set set me up to have to do like a lot of really serious like thinking itself revision later on. It's not to say that I necessarily came out of high school. As you know, I didn't come out of high school as a malicious or a hateful person, but just as a person who is the way I looked at the world is very informed by

23:02 You know my own perspective and and whereas, you know, I think ideally our perspective on the world should be informed by our perspective and also by, you know, listening to the perspectives of other people. So learning how to do that and thoughtfully with something. I didn't really learn until later.

23:24 So you went to school in Western, Mass.

23:27 Yeah, that experience. So I went to school Western Massachusetts Small liberal arts college called Hampshire College.

23:44 And the Hampshire college is a really cool place. It's a really strange Place their style of

23:54 Learning and sort of approach in curriculum is

23:58 Really unique and that it's very student-driven. It's very independently driven.

24:09 You know, so everybody every student at Hampshire College designs their own major we work with you work with advisers throughout your time. They're just direct your studies find a concentration and then your 4th year or your final year. I should say at the school is dedicated to doing what they call a division 3 project. So it's an independent project of some sort. That's really sort of the ideas to sort of solidify. This is Major that you've been crafting. And so for some people, you know, if you're in the arts for some people that's you know, writing and maybe writing a play Maybe filming a documentary it maybe

24:59 You know, it it it may be conducting a study. It may be for you know for me it was writing a thesis. So I mean, it's just a message just to sort of say like hamster is very what's it was definitely the right place for me.

25:20 You know, I am I learned a lot there and I think like

25:25 Some of the most important things I learned were sort of like I was saying.

25:30 How to think about the world as far as like systems of power rather than

25:41 Or I should say systems of power sort of complementary to like thinking about the world in individualistic sense.

25:52 And so yeah, I mean I was exposed to all kinds of really really cool ideas very ideas that were very radical coming from where I came from and you know, I also just was able to meet and collaborate and learn with some some really cool people who are you know still very very, you know, good friends and are still huge Inspirations in my life. So did you find a little bit more diversity? Yeah. I mean, you know

26:31 You definitely you know Hampshire as as many small private institutions do still has to let you know obviously a little ways to go, you know, in terms of their their perspective in their approach to the student diversity, but they would that being said, I I think they've made a lot more progress than than others.

26:59 And so it was you know being introduced.

27:02 People with diverse perspectives to I mean so many people that even in this, you know, I just wanted to ask so many people that I was friends with and who I learned from there were like from cities and grew up in cities which like sounds like a really basic thing but like

27:20 That perspective and you know sort of like the culture even a bad that they brought with them was so different from how I grew up. You know, I mean, I I grew up maybe an hour away from Boston. So okay we go into Boston a couple of times a year with my parents and you know,

27:38 Eat dinner walk around see if she'll whatever.

27:43 But so even just that was like really I think unique and interesting.

27:51 And also, you know the other thing was like

27:57 Experiencing perspectives different perspectives with regards to Welch at school, you know, there were a lot of students at the school who were came from just staggeringly affluent families. And so looking at the way that you know, very very for the most part very smart thoughtful people but looking at you know students coming from different backgrounds all coming to the same place to do a similar thing together and build community was really interested. It wasn't always cut-and-dry. It was sometimes Messi.

28:40 But that that was huge and I think just having that opportunity to think about.

28:47 Just think about how knowledge is shared how knowledge is distributed. How knowledge is validated.

28:57 And then to think about again, you know like

29:01 How how knowledge implicates real world culture real world Behavior that's you know something that's that continues to stick with me and inform. You know, how I try to think about the world around me. So I'm very thankful for having had that experience.

29:19 Sure, and your current job you can parole operations manager with a Mala.

29:31 You found out about Mala in college. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey with the organization think my third year in college?

29:49 I needed to find an internship and so you know much of my Life program of study at add Hampshire was centered on religion. So religion is something that's always been interesting to me sort of sociologically at from a literature perspective culturally all of these things on it. So I was in the middle of sort of narrowing my focus of study from where I started studying comparative religion to where I became really interested in studying Islam specifically sort of as a as a as a cultural sort of

30:31 You know Isaac as a as a force for mobilizing culture as a force for mobilizing politics and also as a you know, scriptural tradition, so, you know, I'm looking for internships, you know, this is where my brain was. He's with subjects. I wanted to engage with I came across the the Muslim American leadership Alliance Mala.

30:56 And you noticed that they were going to a Muslim organization interested in culture and arts and also that they were centered on sort of Storytelling an oral history. And and that was really appealing to me because at the time, you know, I was also really interested in potentially a career in journalism. It's all I saw it as you know an interesting opportunity both still like get some perspective on what what what Muslim identity what Islam culture looks like in today's world in the United States and then also to be able to speak with people about that experience from sort of a journalistic perspective. So I applied for the internship. I got the internship.

31:52 I internship is probably like a semester. So I spent about a semester doing transcribing stories mostly so they come with a guy, you know recorded oral history that they did through storycorps and through the National Library of Congress and I would transcribe it which was really interesting exercise because not only am I listening to these stories, but I'm listening to them over and over and over again while I typed them so that was kind of unique.

32:29 And after a while I started you know, I said I think you know, I think I want to try this. I want to try to do this sort of.

32:44 Oral history interviews with friends and with actually a couple of professors were Muslim in my own Circle and you know, I'm a musician. So I had you know, the microphone and stuff that I use for recording and an audio interface. I bring all of that and I would set that up and you know, it would basically in people's bedrooms in professors offices, you know hanging out on the porch and I would record these stories.

33:21 And yeah, and that's what you know kind of got me hooked from there. I became a fellow with the organization and became a little bit more involved in the start of programmatic side. So, you know all of those oral histories, but Mala also does community engagement the like programming and events and in all of these things so, you know,

33:50 As an intern as a fellow I was working remotely. So your organization is operating primarily in Chicago and New York at that time. I was in Massachusetts and then as I started working at the larger capacity of the organization, I started to actually sort of meet the community the community for me for the first year or so is really kind of

34:13 An abstract concept because I didn't have faces to put two names because you know, I'm in a different state. But so that was that was also big turning point was actually starting to meet people and be a sort of okay. How do you

34:29 How do you build a community?

34:35 In a way, that's not abstract. Right? Like we all like to talk about how important Community is really easy to say. It's really easy to talk about but to be able to feel like you're actually helping to sort of put the pieces together and then built this is very real sort of functioning organism was was really cool. So now I'm currently the operations manager and that's happened through I've been at this role for a little over a year now for about 6 months. I was in I was in a program associate position working part-time. And so now I work directly with you know with with you flex and with the other other co-founders, and we're just

35:28 Kind of making this thing happened. So it's it's it's been it's been really cool to learn, you know, a lot of stuff. I ask you this. Did you have any other internship that you apply for any other jobs outside of school or like early just

35:53 Higher hire you right away. How did how did this whole thing happen for the mall internship in?

36:09 Add a couple of other offers but

36:13 They just weren't as interesting to me. I can't even really remember what the what the internships were when I finished College because the time of part-time with Marla I was working, you know, maybe 10 15 hours a week.

36:31 So I looked at some other stuff but it's it's hard now having a lot of people, you know, a bachelor's degree doesn't mean the same thing that it meant, you know, 20 years ago 10 years ago, whatever. So trying to find jobs in the cultural space.

36:56 Is challenging, you know, particularly coming coming out of undergrad with a degree that you know, basically in

37:07 You know, it's llama culture and politics, you know, a lot of a lot of the dream jobs associated with that, you know would have required several more years of school before I do, you know, you can qualify. So I looked around at some other stuff. I looked at some research positions you known. This was sort of the few a few weeks after I graduated and then was approached by executive director and she's sort of offered me like a increased increase part-time role.

37:48 Not that point, you know, I was going to like, well, you know, I know these people I know this will work. I know this community.

37:58 And and and I and I liked it a lot of the other jobs. I was applying for we're really

38:07 Can you explode if you know they're the kind of thing where you know, you're expected to work for 20 hours a week and be paid for 5. So, you know feeling like you know with Marla I felt like I was able to make an impact. I feel like I was able to like continue to learn and sort of grow and I also felt like it was it was Equitable and that I was working with people who were fair and who were concerned about, you know, my well-being and in my own advancement

38:38 7/32 what would you say that makes male unique in a soap in the in the world you've been in another world you've been able to see the nonprofit space, you know who no different lens. You know, what what what makes the organization you need in your own words.

39:11 I think

39:16 I think what what makes it unique and what makes it really work the way that it does is the prioritization of personal relationships.

39:33 You know when the first things I learned with Mala was like you can't be transactional about the way you interact with people.

39:43 You know if it's if you want somebody to do something for you basically give them a reason to show them that you know, you are interested in what they're doing and that you know, you want to contribute then, you know, basically the best Partnerships are you operate on a basis of of sincerity and reciprocity and I think that's what sort of sex this model. The Mala model apart is is very much a commitment to that a lot of other nonprofits.

40:22 Like the idea of of personal relationships but ends up looking really superficial I think so, so that's that's that's what sets Mala apart for me. I think that's what makes the community. So strong is that sort of genuine concern genuine reciprocity.

40:45 Last question

40:48 What advice do you have for you? No freon, you know people right now especially in this time of you know, covid-19 kicks that are graduating that are trying to take it out what the future, you know, looks like, you know, you have any words of wisdom.

41:10 Yeah.

41:14 I think you got a

41:18 You know it everybody tells you like find something that you love and do it. And so I think that's like a little played out. But I think it's also kind of true and I think that you know what that doesn't have to mean finding something that you love and doing it for a living. I think that means finding something that you love and being intentional about making a part of your life, you know, if you love music in a like I do.

41:53 You don't necessarily have to feel pressure to become like a world-class producing artist. But if you love making music, you got to be intentional about making time in your life to give that to yourself. Same thing with painting same thing with you know, if you love hiking or being outside, you know, you don't have to become a park ranger, you know to enjoy doing that.

42:23 Think I think sometimes we we we we take all of the value, you know, we value ourselves based on our professional status and what we do for work and how we make money and I don't think that I think that's kind of backwards. I think we have to be intentional about

42:44 Letting ourselves do things that we love and learn things that we love and being intentional about spending time doing that and allowing ourselves to you. No take value from that enter be proud of ourselves for getting better at those things. Even if there is not an audience, even if it's not reflected in your paycheck, so I think that's that's what I would say.

43:11 Oh, that's a great way to it's a great answer. It's a great way to end our interview today and I want to thank you for joining us and story story or been sharing your personal Journey with us.

43:27 Yeah, thanks a lot Flexin and thanks to story Corp as well.