Anja Marais and Alexander Aris

[00:02] ANYA MARAIS: Hi, my name is Anya Mare. Today is March 18, 2023. I live in Taos, New Mexico, and I'm here today with Alex, my housemate. We live in an intentional community together. Hi, Alex.

[00:19] ALEXANDER ARIS: Hi. Hi. My name is Alexander Aris. I am 49 years old. Today's date is March 18, 2023. We're here in Taos New Mexico, which is where I live. I'm here with Anya Marais, who is my housemate, with whom I live in community. Okay, well, this is our first question, and so I'm going to asking, Anya, what was your first memory or impression of me?

[00:55] ANYA MARAIS: Well, let me just start with a little background on this question, is that I only moved to Taos in the middle of COVID So when I moved here, I moved here without knowing anybody. I didn't know what to expect of this community I'm moving to. I just organized this all online, and I couldn't get in contact with anybody beforehand because of COVID So when I was driving across the country in a U-Haul with all my belongings and my two cats, I showed up here in Taos, and I was wondering what this house is going to be all about and what's all these people going to be that I'm going to live with from now on. I had no information, so I was really hoping that there's going to be kindred spirits that I will share my time and space with. So I remember the first time I came out of the front door after I saw my room for the first time. And I ran out and I bumped right into Alex. And it was such a split second of just seeing him in the doorway. And I just immediately knew. I don't know how, but my gut was just telling me this is another kindred spirit. And I could feel the whole house was full of other kindred spirits. And it was like this beautiful welcoming gift, moving to Taos. And, you know, and then we had our first conversations, and I just really valued immediately your perspective on so many subjects, and you seem to be so connected to so many things. And I knew that we can have so many conversations over the years, and it has been proven true. And the fact that we are here still in communication and talking and sharing is just evidence of that first feeling I got from you, that first memory.

[03:05] ALEXANDER ARIS: Right. Well, I'll say what my first memory impression of you was, and, you know, I don't think I quite remember the moment at the door. Maybe dimly. But what I really remember, the first real impression I had was I went in the kitchen, and you were there. And here was. The thing is that I'd gotten an email that morning that was addressed to Anya, like somebody called Anya. Well, it turned out that my friend had accidentally sent this message to me that she intended for somebody called Anya. But then I met you in the kitchen, and I think that's when I learned that your name was Anya. And I told you, like, oh, gosh, this happened. And you said, oh, well, these things happen for a reason. Something like that. And I felt exactly the same way. And I took that as a signal, a sign right from the beginning that there's something synchronicious about our connection and that you were a kindred spirit who understood things like synchronicities. And it wasn't even so much of a thought, but it was a sort of, like, a feeling that I had. I don't know if it really was formulated in language in my head as a thought, but that was the sense I had right away. So that was, like, my very first impression.

[04:33] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, well, I remember that conversation, and I remember I was so open to moving into this new place because the synchronicity started right away. During this time, I really value the deity Matara. She's a hindu goddess. And because I had so many transitions that was happening in my life, I was holding her dear to help me through these transitions. So when this house came up, I could move to sort of. I asked her, like, is this, you know, be with me when I'm moving to this new place where I don't know anybody? And I remember when I showed up at this house out of my, you know, my truck, when I was arriving there, or the car was driving there, the house manager came out, and right next to him was a cat. And he said to me, oh, welcome to the house. I said, and let me introduce you to our kitty. The kitty's name is Tara. And I knew right away, okay, this is the right place. So it just started right away. This. It's like this. I don't know, this dreaming that's going on in this town, in this location, this landscape, and then it goes all the way to the people I'm starting to meet here in Taos, us living together. We're, like, seven people living in this community, and we're all very connected, and there's a lot of commonalities between all of us.

[06:10] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah, there's a real web of connection. And, you know, I actually like that you're the one who's, like, physically the closest to me in our house. Like, I feel the most comfortable with you being the one next door, the one that I share the wall with and share the bathroom with and somehow. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You're by far my first choice in the house of the person I'd like to have next door. Really?

[06:36] ANYA MARAIS: He says that to all the housemates.

[06:38] ALEXANDER ARIS: No, I don't. I absolutely don't, because none of them live next door to me anyway, so. Yeah, but, yeah, yeah, I mean, the whole Tara thing is one thing, because you didn't tell me about Tara for a while until later, but it's true that I already had my own connection to Tara, but really through the buddhist tradition and primarily, most of all, green Tara, but not only green Tara. But the thing is, I didn't know, which actually, most people don't know, even if they know the buddhist Tara, that the Tara is actually a hindu deity. So I had that awareness. And then I also know that there's some controversy of whether the buddhist version of Tara came from the hindu one or the hindu one came from the buddhist one. So that's interesting. I did have that connection in common, but then we discovered so many other connections in common.

[07:28] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. Well, if we are a Venn diagram, what would you say is the intersection between us?

[07:35] ALEXANDER ARIS: Well, yeah, I mean, that just naturally segues, actually. I mean, well, the thing that I'm going to mention just in this moment, because it really has to do with synchronicity and dreaming, and this quite personal to me, is that I remember when we were going to see this movie together, nightmare alley. Well, that's a whole nother thing. Well, one thing we have in common is mindfuck movies that we've seen together. Okay. And this was the first one, but on the way, I just happened to ask Anya, do you know anything about Wetiko And anya said, well, yeah, I actually know something about it. I followed Paul Levy's work for years, and Paul Levy is actually a personal friend of mine, really close, deep friend of mine, and he's probably the person who's most popularized this concept of waitiko, which could be briefly described as kind of like a mind virus that's contagious. And that is like, I mean, ultimately, in its origins as a native american concept. It's this sort of, like, all devouring, sort of cannibalistic spirit that takes people over, that I mean, could be, you know, identified with, for example, the. The spirit of capitalism and sudden conception of what capitalism is or, you know, other things, like, you know, racism, patriarchy, addiction. And so this, like, and this was like, for me, anyway, this was the first major synchronicity since we met. And this is like, it was like a real affirmation. Like, yeah, we're really kind of, like, tuned into something together and, well, here's the interesting thing. I'll just mention briefly about, like, my friend Paul's work in general. Beyond the specifics of Wetiko his work is deeply concerned with synchronicities and dreaming. And so that's a huge part of, like, the intersection of things for us. That's what I feel.

[09:42] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, well, just a note on that is that, you know, I'm an artiste, and I'm originally from South Africa. So in my art, I work a lot with how the collective is moving and how do people do the things they do, and how does a group of people suddenly do things that individually is against their morals? And, you know, I was looking at Jung's work, and I was just, I felt like there was more to it, and I kept, I loved to research, so I thought I went into something really unique and hidden in a corner somewhere. When I found Paul Levy's work, where he was describing the collective mindset and how contagious it is and how it envelops everybody in its peripheries, if they just even in the vicinity of it. And it really was such a wonderful cornerstone for the artwork I'm doing and to understand what human behavior is about in the darkest of times. So I integrated that in my work in a way. And so I held it dear to my heart. And then when I, there was nobody ever I could talk to about it. I mean, this is when I was still living in Miami. And so when I came here, and we just happened to be reading the same books, and we all, we know both his work, it was really comforting, because I knew there's a part of my being that I don't have to explain to Alex. Like, I can just say certain things, and he will know exactly what I'm tapped into and what we are talking about. So what other commonalities?

[11:35] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah, well, I'll just say briefly that I felt the same way. Wow, Anya's tapped in. And then I showed you when we got back home, like Paul's latest book. And then he mentions me in the acknowledgements. Yeah, I mean, I'm always in touch with. Actually, I'm in a group with him every week now. And he was my neighbor back in Portland, where I lived for many years. So that was like, wow, this is a really powerful connection. And then for me, like, the second sort of connection that I really remember and note was, I remember, like, we were in the breakfast room one morning and I said, like, you know, there's this motto that's. I'm sort of making my motto right now. It's, the times are urgent. Let us slow down. Do you know this nigerian philosopher thinker called Bayo Akomolafe That's where I get it from. And then Anya did, and I was like, oh, wow. Because it's meaningful to me because I've studied with him and even had a little bit of personal in interaction and in a way, that was just as, for me, as a significant connection with Paul's work, because, I mean, bio is a black, nigerian african man, and race and issues of decolonization and postcolonialism figure deeply in his work. And these are like, um, you know, themes that really speak to me, you know, as a person of color, you know, who, for whom race has been a very significant issue in my life. The role that it's played and the fact that Anya had this connection to Bayer's work, it's like, oh, wow. Like that. That was a real deepening for me.

[13:34] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah.

[13:35] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah.

[13:36] ANYA MARAIS: Well, you know, I was born and raised in South Africa, so I have a deep connection to Africa. And I really appreciate the writers and the philosophers that comes from this continent. It's really deep. Like, my favorite writer is Ben okri. He's also from Nigeria. And Bayo's work is also so beautiful in the perspective he brings to the world. And I just feel like, because of Africa, I could just. I could feel his words. He has such beautiful, eloquent words. And, you know, for instance, I don't know which part of. Where did I hear him say this about? I personally don't love the word decolonization because I feel like it is. We're still focusing on the idea of colonization. I personally like when he was mentioning about re indigenization, and that really felt true to me, that for in my own work, where I feel like we should return back to earth and connect to the elements and the directions and be attentive to what this natural world is bringing to our ways of life.

[14:52] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah, that makes sense to me. And, well, one thing I'll say is that I really still haven't fathomed bio and his work. I mean, there's just so much to it, and I'll just admit it. I don't fully know what to make of him or his work yet. And I'm not sure if he even knows either. I think, you know, he's very much kind of himself, you know, unfolding his own conceptions.

[15:14] ANYA MARAIS: But, yeah, no, it's true. Like, I always feel like I have to read everything he does twice, at least. And when I do see videos of his as well, when I do courses and stuff, I have to rewatch stuff, and then I had to wait some time for it to really become part of my body and then I have to go back and read it again, so. Yeah, it's quite an onion to peel.

[15:44] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah, yeah. I think he actually uses the term rhizome, in fact.

[15:48] ANYA MARAIS: Yes, he does.

[15:50] ALEXANDER ARIS: Rhizomatic is a term he likes to use. Exactly.

[15:55] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. His way with language is incredible.

[16:00] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah. I have mixed feelings about it, actually, as many things. I haven't come to a settled view about that when it comes to bio.

[16:09] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, no, I think we talked about this before. His language is so beautiful, it's almost seductive. And you're being seduced by his intellect. Yeah.

[16:21] ALEXANDER ARIS: Sort of putting you under a spell, in fact, which sort of like, I don't know, on one level, it makes me a little. Almost suspicious. That's maybe not quite the word for it, but, yeah, it makes me like. I don't know what's going on, sort of thing. Yeah. It's also so charming.

[16:38] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. Well, you know, and I think why we both relate to him is because he's african and we both are immigrants, you know, so we both come from different countries, and here we are living in the heart of the United States in the same community, and it's. You could not have even imagined something like that. Like all diverse background connecting here in the States. Right.

[17:09] ALEXANDER ARIS: And that relates to another question we were thinking of together. It's like, you know, what's an unexpected turn? Basically that our lives have taken something unexpected. And, you know, I've said that, but in a way, it was unexpected that I ended up making my life here in the US. Well, I mean, I had a sense that this is what I wanted to do from the time I was when I was 20, when I was in college in the US. But before that, I wasn't clear about it at all. And before I came to the US for college, I hadn't really thought that I would make my life here. I really didn't have any firm ideas or thoughts. But it's interesting, actually, because my brother told me a story. No, a friend told me a story of meeting my brother and telling him that she was surprised that I ended up making my life in the US. She didn't really think that that would be my trajectory, apparently what my brother said to her, Washington, like, yeah, my brother is a mystery, so.

[18:22] ANYA MARAIS: Right. Well, it's funny because I also didn't make that definite decision. I'm going to come to the states. I happened to finish art school and decided that I'm not a good artist until I have experiences. And the only way I feel like I could go and collect experience was to start traveling. And when I started doing this, my sister happened to live here and I. She just asked me to please stop here first before I continue with my travels. And so that's how that happened. At one point, I decided, okay, I want to go back to South Africa. And I booked a flight. And then I changed my mind. I booked a flight, changed my mind, and I cancelled it. And then later, one of those flights actually was in air Cairo that crashed. And I just knew when that happened that for some reason I got a second chance on life, even though I wasn't booked on that flight anymore. But I know it was very close. I was like, this is my second chance on life and I'm here right now. What is it that I need to learn? I'm here for a reason. United States has become a huge teaching for me and how. Who I am and what I can be for society. Yeah, well, and one other commonality, what I love about me and Alex is we sometimes have these just, like I say, interesting synchronicities between us. So it was about a month, maybe two months ago, we decided to go to Valle Escondidos. We have a friend that was house sitting there and we were driving, and suddenly next to the road, we just saw this huge golden eagle sitting right next to the road on top of a carcass. And we both looked at it at the same time and we both just had this innate feeling that it is a message. And I knew that golden eagle was one of another teaching coming, another lesson coming, another revelation of something. And Alex could feel it right away. And since we both saw this, because it's very rare to see a golden eagle sitting on the ground, especially so close. By And there was just so many other synchronicities that start opening up after we saw this eagle together. And so we both are aware that there's new beginnings in both of our lives, because even though we live in the same house and we have a lot of commonalities, our lives are parallel. So there's like, similar message, but it's still also different for each one of us. And it's just wonderful to be on this journey with you.

[21:34] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah. Well, it's interesting, like, how we live in the same house. We live, you know, in rooms next door to each other, and we have all these commonalities, but, you know, we also have, which I think is also good, very distinct lives. And there have been some times when I've especially been more in retreat mode, where we've barely seen each other for days, you know, even weeks at least at one point, you know, when I was really more, like, in retreat and being more reclusive. And, you know, sometimes we're just like ships in the dark, even though we live right next door to each other.

[22:07] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. But it's funny, like, one time I just got a text from you out of the blue, and you said, are you okay? And I'm like, how did you know I was sick? Because I was in bed for, like, two days not feeling well, but I was just kind of sleeping. I didn't, you know, really say or tell anybody about it, but somehow you felt like something is wrong. You, like, text you know, what's, you know, are you okay? I'm like, wow. How did you know it was not so.

[22:37] ALEXANDER ARIS: It wasn't so hard for me to know because, like, well, first of all, I noticed you weren't going to work. I mean, so that that was one thing. And then I could hear you coughing. It wasn't, like, disturbing me or bad.

[22:49] ANYA MARAIS: Okay. I thought it was really silent, but, yeah, I mean.

[22:52] ALEXANDER ARIS: But still, I mean, I could hear. And so, yeah, I mean, I didn't actually have to be telepathic.

[23:00] ANYA MARAIS: Oh, no. I thought you were telepathic. I'm, like, so disappointed.

[23:04] ALEXANDER ARIS: I'm sorry.

[23:05] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, no, but we aware of people in the house and when people coming and going and, like, what you say when someone is not feeling well. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing I remember is, like, after we saw the golden eagle. I mean, I don't know if you have anything to say about that moment, which was really profound for me. But afterwards, we each. We all be both, like, oracle cards. And it's like the next day, each one of us pulled oracle cards from a different deck, and we started to start getting all these messages of these, you know, these new things that's going to happen in our lives. And even. Even, like, you know, in the cards we draw, there were similar messages. So it was really?

[23:57] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah, well, I mean, I remember, like, one interesting little synchronicity. Um, and, I mean, I think this is like, something that still, you know, hasn't been fully unfolded. But. What was that? Anya, you drew this card, which was like the. Featuring, like, the war bonnet, the chiefs, like, eagle feather, war bonnet. And then you showed it to me and, you know, I read the description, but what I really noticed is that that deck was created by Jamie Sams you know, and, you know, I'm familiar with her work and so on. But the really interesting thing about that is that by my bed, I. I had a book that I had been reading called the Eagle's Quest, which actually mentions her. She's a character in the book, which is actually sort of a biographical book. And the author talks about actually doing an ayahuasca ceremony with her. And she used to live out here in New Mexico.

[25:00] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, she's one of my favorite teachers. I have this. This oracle deck and book of hers. And her teachings is really so connected to New Mexico and the land of New Mexico. And then after we talked, we decided to look her up because you thought, well, maybe you can study with her further. And unfortunately, we found out she just passed away, I think, two years ago. And, yeah, it was just almost like a sad moment between us. Like we just found another connection, another synchronicity. And this wonderful woman have dropped her robes and. But she's still teaching us.

[25:44] ALEXANDER ARIS: That's what I think. I think we still haven't fully unfolded that one.

[25:47] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah.

[25:48] ALEXANDER ARIS: And, you know, things are still going to occur and. Yeah, yeah. Was that another part of that is obviously that there's the, like, the shamanic connection because she was a shamanistic person from partly an indigenous background and this interest in indigeneity. You were talking the term re indigenizing. And that's also really significant to me, although I wouldn't say exactly I come from an indigenous culture, but I do come partly from a non western culture that's not so far removed from more indigenous and traditional and, as it were, intact ways of living. And so that was another connection, you know, with both indigeneity and, you know, the shamanistic and. Yeah, that was interesting. And then we had, like, another, like, somewhat similar sort of synchronicity happen. Is that. Yeah. Anya came to her inbox, and then she forwarded onto me this piece on the eagle and child, a webcast. And all these other eagle things had been happening for me. Some were in common between us, but some were really just my own process. And so I got this, and then I saw that the speaker who was talking about the myth this mythology of eagle and child was also actually somebody I know, Michael Mead. He's a well known mythologist, storyteller, and a lot of other things. And so that was an interesting synchronousity right there. And then it was, funny thing is that the next day, I think it was the next day, another friend of mine, totally unconnected to here, I mean, from Portland, Oregon, she sent me the very next day a quote by Michael Meade. And it's like, wow, that's like two days in a row. And, like, eagle and Michael Meade and coming up, and Anya didn't know that I knew him. But again, that's, like, about mythology and the mythic, which is a big theme between us as well.

[28:17] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. I feel like no matter who I tell you, oh, I read about this person or I studied this person, or I researched this person, you already know about them. And, you know, on parental. It's wonderful. Yeah. I mean, Michael Meade, I discovered many years ago, and also through dreaming, you know, mythic dreaming and which I also use a lot in when I did my research and my artwork and, you know, the shamanic world, he's very valuable in his views and information. But that also reminds me is, you know, when you asked me in the beginning, what was my first impression of you, one of the things I really remember is this was, like the first week of living in the house, and I can't remember what we told, what we were talking about, but I was trying to express something and, like, how I. My perspective on something. And the only way I could say it was like, well, you know, I'm an animist. And he just went right away. Yeah, so am I to. And we both, like, have this idea of the personification of everything around us and all the inanimate and animate objects around us. And, I don't know, it just makes conversations.

[29:40] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah. Well, all the inanimate or the supposedly inanimate objects actually being, in some sense, also animate. Yes.

[29:48] ANYA MARAIS: Like, everything's alive.

[29:50] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[29:54] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. I was hoping that we can also talk about where do you think I will be in ten years from now if we continue the journey we are on? Where do you think I will be in ten years from now?

[30:12] ALEXANDER ARIS: Well, in a way, I have to say that this feels easy for me to come up with an answer to. And, I mean, I'm not going to make a prediction. I mean, I'm honestly not, like, considering myself a fortune teller or someone who has, like, a special, you know, clear vision of the future. In that sense, I don't feel I have a clairvoyant vision into the future. But this is like, what I feel so much is that you'll be in Taos and, you know, you'll be known as a Taos artist and sculptor. I mean, I mean, you already are a sculptor and you're already living in Taos, but I think you're going to be known as one of those artists sculptors really associated with Taos. I mean, just as there certainly are plenty of artists whose names have become associated with this part of the world. And that's my feeling. That's my feeling. Almost kind of a vision, but not like particularly sort of psychic, clairvoyant type. And that, you know, I mean, this is kind of a little bit easy to predict that you'll be known. I mean, have a sense of the sort of art and sculpture that you'll be known for, like spiritually oriented, ancestrally oriented, animistically related, ancestral, or also dealing with themes of ancestral trauma. I mean, and probably much more than that than I can even understand. And, you know, really, your connection to, to nature as an artist and a sculptor, I mean, that to me, just seems. Feels so natural if I'm going to envision or imagine ahead of who you're going to be in ten years time.

[32:08] ANYA MARAIS: Thank you. I hold that dear to me. Well, people probably don't know this, but you have a long, beautiful academic background, and you're very well versed and well read And you have such a deep understanding of the world that I know this is going to come out as a gift back to the world in the form of. I don't know. I have a feeling there's going to be, you're going to be an author, there's going to be a book or two. Now, I know you have mathematics in your past, but I also know that you care deeply about the environment, and I know about the waters here in Taos, and it's dear to your heart. So somewhere the environmental activism is going to probably be prominent in your life, and you're going to make a difference. I just know you're going to make a difference to many people in many ways. You know, you very versed in consciousness, and I feel like all these things are kind of come together with you. This unique fingerprint of your mathematic background, your feeling towards nature and environment, and your deep understanding of consciousness. Can somebody going to come together and a unique fingerprint that's only yours, and that's going to be a gift to the world. And I am so glad that I'm going to be there to witness it.

[33:34] ALEXANDER ARIS: Oh, that's awesome. That is awesome. Because, you know, that is kind of like really a major part of my high dream for my life. And, you know, I mean, that's kind of a big part of where I would love to be in my life in ten years time, you know, synthesizing my different backgrounds, my academic backgrounds. Well, I have academic backgrounds and degrees in philosophy, mathematics and transpersonal psychology. And I also have an activist background of a certain sort that my life has been deeply entwined with. Real interested in consciousness studies and science and spirituality. I've given presentations at the Science of consciousness conference and the science and non duality conference. And, you know, I'm just finishing up training and being a mindfulness meditation teacher. And my high dream is really to integrate all of this one way or another. And I think it'd be wonderful if, you know, I do come up with a book or two or, you know, and the fact that you can envision this for me is really so encouraging. Yeah.

[34:41] ANYA MARAIS: Well, this whole thing about the synchronicity but between us is like, in a way, we've dreamed each other into each other's lives, so we also can dream each other's futures for each other as well, and hold space for that. And it's such a blessing to have such a wonderful friend. Thank you for being my friend, Alex.

[35:01] ALEXANDER ARIS: Hey, thank you, Anya, so much. You know, I mean, and, you know, I'm sure we will still be absolutely deep friends and even deeper friends probably in ten years time.

[35:13] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah. Hopefully more.

[35:14] ALEXANDER ARIS: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I hope till the end of our lives, in fact, you know, and, I mean, I think it's very probable, as far as I'm concerned, that my life will always be connected to this part of the world. I may not always be living here full time, even if I'm not quite living in Taos. I don't think I would be very far away. And I. I certainly see you always having a connection with this part of the world.

[35:45] ANYA MARAIS: Yeah, no, I love the southwest deeply, and I would love to live here as long as I can. I do have this dream of returning to Africa one day, but I don't know if it's just. Will it be a visit? Will it be a year? Two years? But I feel like I will always circle back to Taos and my community here, my friends here.

[36:06] ALEXANDER ARIS: And I really feel that you are going to be known as an artist of the southwest expanding. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's actually totally awesome that, like, you would, as an artist, you would both be embodying part of the spirit of the southwest and of Africa. I mean, that's a really unique combination.

[36:30] ANYA MARAIS: Well, they both are. So the same feeling I get in the southwest is the same feeling I have in Africa. Same rawness. You can feel the earth so deeply under your feet and there's a similarity. And I'm glad I'm able and grateful that I can feel both of them. Well, yeah. Thank you for doing this conversation with me and sharing our friendship with the world.

[36:59] ALEXANDER ARIS: Well, yeah. And since we just have a moment or two left, I'm going to do something that we thought of doing, which is to draw an oracle card from a deck that we both possess. The same deck. And there's synchronously around that. So let's just see what comes up.

[37:14] ANYA MARAIS: Okay. You go for it.

[37:16] ALEXANDER ARIS: Conclude on that note. Okay, here goes. Guide the illuminated path.

[37:25] ANYA MARAIS: Oh, wow. This is a Taos artist, by the way, that's doing this deck. Oh, yeah. We both guided.

[37:34] ALEXANDER ARIS: Okay, well, thank you so much.

[37:39] ANYA MARAIS: Thank you, Alex.