Anna Grady and Carol Clarke

[00:01] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Hello. My name is Anna Katherine Grady. Hello. My name is Anna Katherine Grady. I am 24 years old. Today's date is Thursday, December 9, 2021. Currently, I am located in Pullman, Washington. My partner's name is Carol Clark, and this is my one step conversation partner.

[00:22] CAROL CLARK: Hello, I'm Carol Clark. My age is 58. Today is Thursday, December 9, 2021. I'm located in Birmingham, Alabama. My partner's name is Anna Katherine Grady, and she is my one small step conversation partner today.

[00:46] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So I did this interview because I really enjoyed the listening to podcasts, and I thought it was something that would be really cool. I grown up in Birmingham my whole life, but I moved away for college and after that as well. But I thought it'd be really cool just to kind of get back into my roots as someone who's from Birmingham.

[01:13] CAROL CLARK: And I'm not really certain how I came about the opportunity to participate. I do remember signing up because I'm generally familiar with Storycorps and like, the idea of it and some of the stories that I've heard on public radio, but not really remembering the day or the circumstance of my signing up. It was probably just curiosity and just interest in supporting it in this small way.

[01:55] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: My paternal grandfather settled in Birmingham during the city's early days and was a civic leader in those days, the 1870s, during the short lived Reconstruction era. He died in 1940, and I knew nothing about him until I was in the high school. From that point, I became a lay historian and Birmingham enthusiast. My father and many of his siblings were jazz musician musicians, and I am also a jazz enthusiast. I'm also a community volunteer who feels most alive when I am serving others.

[02:29] CAROL CLARK: So, hi there. I'm reading Katherine's bio. Hi there. I'm a 23 year old female. I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I'm attending college in Pennsylvania. I was in the Peace Corps in Rwanda until I was evacuated due to Covid. A few things that are important to me are the freedom for self expression, environmental justice, and climate change. For me, being in nature is my safe haven and one of the ways I choose to spend my free time. I value the importance of the public health concept. Quote, one health. End quote.

[03:18] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So the question is, what in the bio would you like to know more about? One of the things that really stood out to me? Well, there were actually two. Is that you were a jazz enthusiast. Enthusiast. I loved that. And also, just like the community service and the community volunteer stuff that you do around Birmingham, that's one of the things that I didn't do as much of when I was in Birmingham, but since leaving Birmingham, I've done a lot more of.

[03:48] CAROL CLARK: Yeah. So your question is the jazz?

[03:56] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: My question is both about jazz. I would love to learn more about that and just hear about that, what's going on around Birmingham. And then also what you volunteer, what you do in the Birmingham camp.

[04:06] CAROL CLARK: What do I do? Yeah. So, you know, as jazz goes, the history of jazz, presumably being born in New Orleans around the turn of the century, you know, as it evolved to whatever it is today. I mean, it's many things today, but, you know, it moved through kind of those that ragtime, then, I guess, traditional, like Dixieland, and then big band swing. And then it kind of turned into cool jazz. Or then in the seventies, it went into free jazz. And so along that evolutionary path, you know, Birmingham has a really rich jazz history. There was a printing teacher in the first black high school in Birmingham. His name was Fess Whatley for professor. That was short for professor in those days. But let's say. Let's say this is the twenties and thirties in Birmingham. So Birmingham had one black high school. The printing teacher had a band that, that played, you know, around town, civic and society type gigs at country clubs or dances or what have you. And they were. They were. He was known. He became known, or he's known today as a maker of musicians because he turned out so many highly sought after big band sidemen who sort of populated the big bands of the thirties. So he's sort of the central figure of Birmingham's, I guess, prominence in the evolution of jazz. And I have five family members who were his students. So I have more family members in the Alabama Jazz hall of fame, probably, than any other family in Alabama. But so my dad is one of these musicians, you know, and, you know, so one of our favorite things was to listen. And I think I listened or I took an interest, really, to spend time with him. And it was almost like a meditative process because you couldn't talk while he was listening to music. You know, you could be there, you talked after the music played, right? And then you could, like, talk about it. But it was just one of those things we did. And if we went into the room where he was listening, you know, it was just a place to be present with him in that experience and just, you know, talk later. But, you know, the stories he would tell me meant more to me later as I continued to develop, you know, my jazz life, which, which has included working with the Lincoln center jazz department as it was forming, becoming jazz at Lincoln center in New York, I got to work with that. I also got to work in jazz radio, hosting a radio program back when I was in college, many, many moons ago at Georgia Tech. And then a little bit of jazz presenting has been in my history, but mostly, you know, mostly just kind of advocating being a part of a jazz society, helping to support live music and, you know, making sure nobody gives me free tickets because I want to sort of prove that there's a demand market for it, you know. So those are just some of the ways that I've been involved in support to jazz. But as for community service, I'm a chronic volunteer and really have to learn to say no to manage my time better. But really, it's just a form of personal philanthropy. One of the ways that I give back to causes I care about, mainly it's been board service, but there have been some committees and ad hoc projects along the way. Many of them starting out revolved around jazz and music. So festivals, jazz festivals or music festivals, because that was something I cared about and wanted to be around. And all of my interaction with jazz at Lincoln center was on a volunteer basis, but I got to go to all the parties and all the concerts for free. And so it was. It was a very practical way to get to participate and see shows when I was a young professional and really didn't have the money to afford, you know, to go to the shows. Fortunately, in New York, a lot of the entertainment was free because the museums were free, and many of. There were many outdoor concerts that were free. But, you know, so there was that volunteering as a way to get what I wanted, you know, which was the shows. But my first job out of college was in. I was. I studied engineering, and my first job was with an electric utility company in Florida. And so there was this unwritten rule within the culture that if you wanted to excel in the corporate culture, you needed to participate in chamber of commerce events and anything United Way, you know, just be involved in United Way, the chamber, and everybody who makes it to the top, you know? So I just, you know, I guess I caught the civic bug then, and it's just been a theme throughout my life.

[10:06] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah, that's cool. How is. So how has Covid impacted, like, the jazz community in Birmingham in the last year and two.

[10:16] CAROL CLARK: Oh, my. I think all performers have been severely impacted by Covid, with people not gathering, but folks have been sort of forced to innovate and, you know, adopt technology. You know, at my age, you know, we're like, we're not digital natives, a lot of us. So it kind of forced people to adapt a lot more and develop digital fluency that maybe they didn't necessarily want to. But. So some people have, some people have just suffered because they are disconnected from audiences and don't have a way to really monetize. But, but I would say, I would have to say jazz is really one of those art forms that you do out of love because it's not a popular form in this country, so it's love driven. Anyway.

[11:14] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So like I mentioned earlier, I'm in grad school right now in Pullman, Washington, but we have rights next to another city in Idaho. It's called Moscow. They, every Thursday night they have a little jazz. Like, it's a, it's a coffee shop slash cafe that they bring in live jazz performance on Thursday nights. That's me and some of my friends go to. And it's, it's been really nice. I haven't listened to jazz music in quite some time. And so we've been going, so do.

[11:50] CAROL CLARK: People from the community, do people from the community sit in with the group with a rhythm section? Like, do just people out of the community come and start playing with the group that's there?

[12:03] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah. So there's a, I don't know if, like, they're a part of it or not, but there's one person who. It's always the same. It's not a piano. I can't remember what the instrument is. It has the two different levels.

[12:20] CAROL CLARK: Some sort of keyboard.

[12:22] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: It's some sort of keyboard, but it's not a piano. But the same guy is always there. And there's just different people that come in. Sometimes there's a saxophone, sometimes there's drums. But it's always different. Every Thursday. But a couple Thursdays ago, someone from the audience just came up and started singing a song with them, which was pretty cool. I was very surprised by that.

[12:44] CAROL CLARK: Well, that's one of the best things about jazz is because it's a, it's like, you know, it, there's a standard sort of song book and they call the song standards, and they're mostly old show tunes. And it's like, if you're going to play jazz, there's like this repertoire that you would learn because they're the most. So anywhere you go, you know, like, I guess if you don't want to carry a saxophone around, you could carry your mouthpiece. And so someone might let you play their saxe and sit in. They call it sitting in, and it's a jam session. But. But it's so. It's so cool because it's like people can get together. It's. It builds community right there on the spot. Right. So it's really cool.

[13:32] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah, it's been really neat to see that. I really. I do enjoy it, and it's like a nice little break away from schoolwork and whatnot and research, so.

[13:41] CAROL CLARK: Awesome. Awesome. That's very cool. So, Catherine, I was kind of intrigued by your short bio, and it was a lot in it that piqued my interest, you know, being in Rwanda. I guess my knowledge of Rwanda is kind of the hotel Rwanda movie, and that whole story about the infighting. I'm just curious what kind of remnants of that may still be in the culture there. And then the public health, the idea of one health, wanting to know more about what that is. I've never heard the term, and instantly, when I saw it, I wanted to go google it. Then I said, no, I get to ask you all about it. I don't have to google it today.

[14:37] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yes. Oh, Rwanda. You kind of just are curious if, like, the genocide against the Tutsis, like, what is still around with that or okay.

[14:48] CAROL CLARK: Or what's the hangover, you know, in the culture from that.

[14:54] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So it's. It's very interesting. I was. I was so a lot of people know about the genocide against the Tutsis through the hotel Rwanda movie. I've actually never seen it, and I didn't want to see it before I joined the Peace Corps, because I knew that was just kind of like a one sided depiction of how it happened. And so when I was going over there, they provided us books that we could read about it, and they talked to us a lot about it. So our teachers, while we were there for Rwandans, and so there was the first three months, you're basically learning the language. So the language in Rwanda is Kinyarwanda, and you're learning about the culture and the history of Rwanda, and you're learning about how to just live life in Rwanda, how to cook, how to clean, and how to speak in Rwanda. But one of the really cool things was they were teaching us about the history of the genocide against the Tutsis. So we got that perspective from our different rwandan teachers. And there is a museum in Kigali, which is the capital, that talks about it, is just all about the genocide against the Tutsis. And the interesting thing is. So it's. So before that, they had the two races, the Hutu and the Tutsis. But after the genocide, they were completely abolished. Like, you're not allowed to talk about races. It's completely against the law. They're now, like, one group. And it's very interesting, because I think, for me, the biggest takeaway that I got learning about that and learning about their culture is there were so many people who killed others. I had teachers whose families had died from people that were in their neighborhood or just, like, their next door neighbors that would just turn a blind eye to them and hearing their stories and hearing what they went through, because some of my teachers did completely go through the genocide or left Rwanda and then came back after it was over. Hearing their stories were really interesting, because the way that they set the system up was they kind of elected leaders in each area to decide who was going to pay for their crimes because they couldn't put the entire country in jail, so they elected the people who were going to go to jail in, like, certain areas. And those people, like, led the discussions within certain sectors or were in certain villages, and they decided that. And after they've made. After they. They made those decisions, everyone else, they had to forgive, which is the wildest thing that I have ever heard. I just, like the thought of just, like, going through something like that and hearing them say, you know, you're never going to forget, but you have to forgive. You want this country to continue on. It was how Rwandans dealt with it. And for me, that was kind of the biggest takeaway that I got from, like, learning about that experience and how people see it nowadays. Its like, yes, it happened, but, like, we are a country and, like, we are moving forward from this.

[18:25] CAROL CLARK: So I guess my follow up question is, did they have a process for. Okay, you know, because it's one thing for someone to tell you, you gotta get over this and move forward, you know? But was there anything, any kind of therapeutic kind of steps or process?

[18:47] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So in April, they have their days of mourning, if I'm correct. I think it's 100 days. But they basically just, every year in April, recognize it's their time of sorrow, and they recognize, like, what happened and just reflect on it. And they have ceremonies and. Yeah, so they do. They do go through that every single.

[19:09] CAROL CLARK: Year and healing together, and everyone participates. And so you said the Tutsi. I'm probably not saying it right is no more. So even if you were Tutsi, you're now Hutu.

[19:22] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So there are no tutsis or Hutus anymore. You were just rwandan.

[19:26] CAROL CLARK: You're just rwandan. I get it. Okay, so there's no ethnic groups, it's like Rwandans. Okay. Okay. I'm glad we clarified by that because I wasn't really sure. Well, that's beautiful. And, you know, there's so much conflict and so much history of our inhumanity to each other till, you know, it's good to know where the good processes are.

[19:53] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah, for sure. It was a really cool learning about that.

[19:58] CAROL CLARK: Yeah.

[19:59] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: And then you have the other question about one health, correct?

[20:02] CAROL CLARK: Yes.

[20:03] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So one health, it's a public health concept, as I said in my paragraph, it's basically the idea that we as humans, not live without animals or the environment as we're all connected. And so if there is an issue with one, there's going to be an issue with another one. So public health workers, doctors, veterinarians, researchers all need to work together to create this sort of idea of like, everything, or to create this idea that like one health, we are all the same. You can't have one doing well without the other. So, for example, with, even Covid is a great example of this. So with my research that I'm in now, I'm interested in zoonotic diseases, which are in what? I'm sorry, zoonotic diseases.

[20:55] CAROL CLARK: Zoonotic. Okay.

[20:57] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So they're diseases that can transmit between humans and animals, and Covid is a zoonotic disease. And the idea of taking care of our environment and taking care of animals and making sure that as we're crossing into more boundaries of where animals live or destroying more of our environment, different diseases and different impacts are going to come up and impact humans as well. So it's the idea that we have to take care of all of these parts of the world if we want to take care of ourselves.

[21:32] CAROL CLARK: Interesting. I like that. Yeah. So is your graduate degree in public health or.

[21:44] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So my graduate degree will be in immunology and infectious disease. I think we got question three now.

[21:56] CAROL CLARK: Okay.

[21:58] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Who has been the most influential person in your life? What did they teach you? So, I would say the most influential person in my life has either been my grandfather or my sister for two very different reasons. My grandfather, he, he's just seen a lot in his time. He went, he. So he, at the age of 17, graduated high school and went to war. He did, I think, two services in the career war, one in the Vietnam War. And after that, he worked his way through college. He became a. Some sort of part of the, I can't remember the name of it right now, but worked in like the city council or the, some part of the main part of the, like the city and did that, and he just has a lot of really interesting stories. And I really like the way he, like, looks at life and just, like, sees things, and, you know, he's always like, you know, life happens. You kind of just have to, like, roll with the punches. And I just think it's a really good way to look at life, so I really appreciate that. And then I think with my sister, she just grew up with me. We've had the same experience, experiences for most of our life just because we lived together for. She's two years younger, so 16 years of my life. But I think it's really interesting that we can both have very similar experiences. My sister's name is Caroline, by the way. We can have very similar experiences and upbringings and how we, like, went through life together but still see things differently or, like, come at things from a different perspective. And I think it's always nice to see how other people are seeing things and see things from a different perspective. So it's really nice that we come from a similar place, but that doesn't always mean we see things the same way. And I just. I appreciate that.

[24:27] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, I think that fascinates me about some of my family members, too. I'm like, you know, and then you evolve into totally different people, and it's like, wow, we came, we, you know, we shared so much earlier, and now we. In my case, we seem so different. So I guess, for me, I talked about a little bit about my dad's influence as it related to my jazz appreciation and things and my appetite and fascination with that art form. But, you know, my mother was a very strong personality, and she was sort of the head of. I mean, she really ran our house. You know, she ran everything about our house from, you know, like, my dad gave her all the money, so she managed the money. He did do the taxes, but I. They were both Depression era. You know, they came up, came of age during the Great Depression, and so they were very conservative and thrifty. But, you know, you know, she. She did get a PhD in. In counseling and guidance, but I can remember just coming up with her. I mean, she was a. She did that later in life. So she was a lifelong educator and lifelong learner. And, you know, she would go every summer, was her summer, to explore. You know, she would. She would have that three months off. But she didn't just sit around, right? She'd find a workshop one year, it was an african study. 1971 was, like, cultural upheaval, right? She comes back, she goes. She goes to northwestern for the summer. Sometimes she would take us, sometimes not. But this summer, she went on her own. She went with her hair straight. She came back with an afro and the Dashiki and a Miriam Akiva eight track tape. And Miriam Akiba is a south african, you know, pretty well known in America, south african vocalist. And she had all these books by the third world press, and it wasn't, you know, we didn't have a. We weren't radical in. In my household in terms of, you know, activism, but we were actualized, I guess, in our blackness, and it was in her. In this study. She came back with Jane Michener's volumes on South Africa and apartheid. And, you know, I've. To this day, I mean, I still have that book on my bookcase, and it's just so big. I've not read it, but I have been to South Africa and comprehended some of that history in other ways. But when Paul was it Paul Simon Paul Simons Graceland with Lady Smith, black Mambazo I mean, she. You know, it was like my mother wasn't much into music, I would say, until she came home that summer. Then all the music on our first, our eight track, and then her record player, you know, it changed to this world music that really opened me up, because, you know, I became a world music. I mean, I would listen to the Afro beat worldwide shows on NPR and really enjoy music from around the world as a result of that exposure. My mother was also a mechanic. She didn't call people to fix things right away. She had to take them apart herself. She also made clothes, but not just any clothes. They were like, you know, the best fabrics, the best designer patterns. She was quite a fashionista. So, you know, many of those things still. I mean, sometimes I go, why do I love clothes so much? And I love scarves. I buy scarves. I have scarves I don't even wear. I just. I just have them because they remind me of her. So she has. She has really been a tremendous influence. The self reliance as well, you know? But, you know, I have to learn how to ask for help, because she. She was a complete package, and that kind of rubbed off on me, so that's really cool.

[29:19] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: I think it's really interesting nowadays that, like, I do not know how to make clothes at all. I've been. I can knit, but I've been making my sister a scarf for the past three years, and every single time, I'm like, caroline, I'm gonna give it to you. I promise. Hasn't happened. We're about to go on year number four. And I'm like, we'll get there eventually. So it's very impressive that she made y'all's clothes.

[29:45] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, she was a home economics teacher. And, you know, you bring up a good point. You know, I. I never really mastered sewing, but, you know, even the cooking, I think people are getting away from a lot of those things that, you know, some people are back into growing food, which is probably something she did as a child. You know, she talks about a farm and an orchard being a part of her childhood. But. So you've got that trend, but you've got so much eating out and not cooking. And then the food. The food in the market, it gets more and more prepared, you know, more and more processed. Even. Even the fresh food is now it's all chopped and in a bag. You just pop in the microwave, and it's like, okay.

[30:35] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Not a fan of that. Yeah, I. So I. When I got back from Rwanda, when I was evacuated, I was very much like, I don't want to talk to anybody. I'm really upset. I don't want to be here. I can't believe I've been thrown back in the US. Like, Covid is worse here than it is in Rwanda. Why am I here? And so all I did for, like, two months was just garden and teach myself guitar, and I absolutely loved it. It was just very nice to just, like, get my hands in the dirt and just, like, not really think about anything else. Just, like, I really didn't know that gardening was something I was a really big fan of until then. But I did know that one of my favorite hobbies is cooking. Like, I absolutely love cooking.

[31:21] CAROL CLARK: Oh, good.

[31:23] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah. New York Times. Epicurious. Bon appetit. Like, I love their recipes. I love cooking. I love baking. Yeah. So that is one thing that I don't know how I got interested in it. My mom was a big cook when I was a kid as well. She would always make sure that we had breakfast in the morning. She would, like, wake up. She worked really early in the morning, so she would, like, leave breakfast in the oven for us. So still, just, like, a little warm, wrapped in, like, aluminum foil or something. And she always packed our lunches in the morning. And then we came home. Caroline and I did soccer and basketball when we were younger, and so every day that we would come home, mom or, like, dad would have dinner ready for us on the table. So cooking was, like, always a big part of my family. And I think I probably picked it up from like, my mom's cooking and my grandmother has, like, a little recipe book that my mom now has. But, yeah, it's something that's really cool that I'm glad I still have.

[32:25] CAROL CLARK: So did your mom sew? Your mother is probably younger than I am.

[32:30] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: How old did you say you were again?

[32:32] CAROL CLARK: 58.

[32:33] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: No, actually, I think my mom. Oh. She does not want me to say that.

[32:38] CAROL CLARK: She didn't tell us her name, so.

[32:40] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yes, I did not.

[32:41] CAROL CLARK: It's abstract.

[32:42] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah, my mom. My mom is, I think, around 58. 59.

[32:50] CAROL CLARK: Okay.

[32:50] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So I think she's about the same age as you. I could do the math in my head real quick.

[32:55] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, no, I was just wondering because at 24, you know, you could be my granddaughter, but no, probably not.

[33:03] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: My mom was. My parents were older when they had my sister.

[33:06] CAROL CLARK: Yeah. Okay. That's great. Well. Hmm. What's your sister's name?

[33:17] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: My sister's name is Caroline. So Katherine and Caroline.

[33:21] CAROL CLARK: Yeah. Catherine and Caroline. You were almost twins.

[33:26] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Oh, I know. Okay, so question number four is, could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values? So I would say that my personal political values, if we're not condensing it down to, like, liberal or conservative, I would say, like, I'm most definitely liberal, but I would say that, like, my political values are, like, what I think is important, I mentioned earlier, is, like, my freedom, your freedom of self expression. And I think respecting others as, like, who they are is something that's super important and are just values that I hold myself, like, for myself and for others, just really close to my heart. Yeah.

[34:19] CAROL CLARK: I guess for me, I don't have any. I believe in democracy, but I'm not sure we have one. I'm just scratching my head most of the time with our political system, and I don't like the partisanship. And I really feel like we treat it like, you know, here we have Alabama and Auburn. You know, the fan, you know, you declare, are you Alabama or are you Auburn?

[34:52] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah.

[34:52] CAROL CLARK: And I've never felt comfortable. I'm presumed a Democrat, but I've never felt comfortable declaring that because I feel like I want to leave myself some wiggle room, you know? And when it comes to state elections, you know, I want to hold out hope that there might be a Republican that I can vote for. You know, maybe somebody will wow me because I don't like that hard division, because I don't think people are all that different, you know, as different as they want to make themselves out to be. And I think that most people care about the same thing and it's kind of ridiculous. That's just my view.

[35:38] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah. I think the two party system is a little ridiculous. But I agree with what you're saying. I know what I stand for and I know what is important to me. But at the end of the day, if someone, what they're saying lines up with what I believe in, I really don't care, like, where they are as long as, like, what they're saying. To me. It just oftentimes happens to be more like democratic people. Yeah. So.

[36:10] CAROL CLARK: Or independent. So.

[36:12] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yeah, yeah. But I think, like, I know what for me is important and, like, one of the things that I mentioned is, like, respecting others and, like, freedom of expression. Like, that's something that I think is super important and something. Yeah, that kind of makes or breaks a lot of things for me.

[36:32] CAROL CLARK: But, you know, I just think federally, it's all kind of disappointing for the most part, you know, try to stay open and engaged. I do. I am a local, I am a local elected official, actually, and I'm new. I've only been in office on our city council here in Birmingham for about five weeks. And I do. One of my biggest hopes was that I would serve with people who care about the community. And so I feel like I've gotten that wish, you know, so far. And it's a real honor and a privilege to be in a position to influence, you know, I guess our focus on trying to resolve issues at the local level, you know, or even influence state policy and so forth. But, you know, so I'm kind of a cynic. I used to say I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't last long as a politician because I'm going to tell the truth. You know, just been pretty cynical about the whole thing. So I don't, you know, I don't consider myself a politician yet. And so maybe that'll come, maybe it won't.

[37:58] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: First off, congratulations. I am now in Washington, so I voted here. And before that I was in Pennsylvania for undergrad, so I was voting there. But I think that's something that you like. I think it's really important. And a lot of people forget about this, that, yes, the president of the United States matters, but I think what matters more, like, for me personally, is like, your elected officials at your local level, because they're the ones that are going to be making more decisions about what is happening in your community. And so, yeah, I think that's great. And I think, like, you taking initiative and running for a position is super important. And I appreciate that you were saying, I don't know if I'm going to make it long because I tell the truth, because that is something that I think is really important. And it's really hard when you're not in it to understand. And not everyone is, like, big into politics, and it's hard sometimes for most people. Like, I'm a scientist, and I can tell you about science, but sometimes politics go right over my head because I don't know the ins and outs of how our system works all the time. And I think having the people who will tell the truth or people who are very honest and open about what's going on is something that's super important and something that we need more of.

[39:24] CAROL CLARK: Well, thank you. Yeah. I'm really stimulated by this opportunity, and it's just been just kind of drinking from afar, hose trying to comprehend it all. But. But, you know, back to federal, you know, I don't even, I don't, I mean, I'm not stupid, but I don't understand the electoral college. I've just never really gotten that. And it's like, okay. It's like, what the f is that? Excuse me. I don't know. I didn't say a bad word. It's like, what is that?

[40:04] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Oh, wow.

[40:04] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, no, I can't, you know, and, like, where did they come from? But who, you know, whatever. But, yeah, so anyway, I believe in democracy, but I'm not sure we have one. But that's just my thought.

[40:20] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: No, I completely agree with you. I think there are things that need to be changed. For sure. All right, we got ten minutes left, so.

[40:32] CAROL CLARK: I really enjoyed talking to you. I don't know we're wrapping up, but I just wanted to say it's a pleasure to get to talk to you. Oh, environmental justice.

[40:45] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yes.

[40:45] CAROL CLARK: Hello. Talk about that. So actually, climate change, is that real? No.

[40:52] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Oh.

[40:52] CAROL CLARK: What?

[40:57] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Oh, my gosh. You have no idea. It's, it's very interesting. I'm. It's. This is a little bit of a tangent, but I will talk about the environmental justice. So I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama. My majority of my family is very different politically than how I am to. And when I tell people that, they're always like, oh, like, how did you get to where you are? Like, how. How are you here? Like, how have you become this? And I'm like, honestly, I I have no idea. Just, like, choices and things that I've done in my life that have kind of figured out or, like, helped me form opinions on things. But, yeah, it's always interesting. When people are like, oh, climate change, that's what you do research on. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to have this discussion with you or not, but environmental justice, yes. So that's something that I'm interested in research wise. So with the peace Corps, I'm interested in, like, low income communities, especially with zoonotic diseases. With zoonotic diseases. Oh, yes, that's right.

[42:04] CAROL CLARK: I remember those.

[42:06] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So, yeah, my research is basically on zoonotic diseases and how climate change is impacting their spread. Like, I'm disease ecologist, epidemiologist and as well as like, how these zoonotic diseases are impacting low income communities. I think environmental justice is something that's really important and is something that is just now being talked about, but it is something that is. It paves the way for a lot of different ways that things are done and how we see things. And for me, it also impacts people when it comes to zoonotic diseases because the majority of people that are impacted with emerging infectious diseases are low income communities. And, yeah, it's just something that I find really important and something that is just not talked about as much as it should be. Orlando is not represented enough. And for me, it's something that is really important to learn about.

[43:12] CAROL CLARK: And, yeah, so when I think about environmental justice, I don't necessarily think about zoonotic diseases, but most people don't. Birmingham, you know, has an industrial heritage, and we've got this horrible industrial hangover where we've got families living in places with really bad air quality and particle pollution levels. Well, a lot of the foundries are gone, but the lead levels and arsenic levels in the ground are still there. And then you've got older foundries that are still operating that can't really. Or maybe it's just really expensive to retrofit the particle pollution, the emission controls on their stacks that would. I don't know. I don't know why they're still with the EPA and, you know, so there's something going on there still with particle pollution in Birmingham. And then one of the big issues we've had lately, kind of a Covid impact on sort of the rail system. I'm sure even if most of the smokestacks were gone when you were coming up, you know that there's trains, like, you know, everywhere in Birmingham.

[44:37] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: I grew up next to one.

[44:38] CAROL CLARK: Yeah. And there's a community, there's a public housing community here where both of the roads, to get out of it, trains block both of the roads and it's like, the only way out when this happens is from an underground tunnel that's not AdA compliant, and that's very dark and slippery. And it's like, how did this happen? I mean, it's just hard to even believe that. That this condition could happen. And the, you know, in the rail companies for really just. I mean, they're compassionate. Well, I wouldn't say compassion is not the word, but their mission is to move the stuff. And so. And they're federal, they're not locally regulated. So, you know, there's still some pretty big challenges. And so we have to figure out, you know, we're doing a study now to get the data because you really can't have good conversations without the data. And, you know, these aren't people. These are people who think nobody cares. And so trying to figure out, can we resettle them or do an infrastructure? But it didn't matter. What we do is going to take a while. And it's happened for a long time, but it's gotten worse because when one of the rail companies told all of their employees that they would have to have Covid vaccines, many of them walked off and just left these trains sitting or, you know, so it's already a bad thing that was just exacerbated by these union unions fighting and not enough people to operate the train. So they back up in the yard, and it impacts one of these egress. You know, egress in one direction is all. Is more severely impacted than the occasional impact. You know, the chances of both of them being blocked. It just seemed the incidents seems to be just more and more frequent and so just nuts. Just stuff you wouldn't think could happen to people who might need to go to their dialysis appointment or get their kid to school or just whatever.

[47:08] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: You know, it's a major issue, and I'm. I'm really happy that people are starting to become aware of it, for sure. And it's starting to become more talked about in the public eye. And I'm hoping, like, things will change because of that soon. So.

[47:23] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, and, you know, in the city government, where you got so many issues, it's like, okay, how do we just keep our eye on this ball, you know, easy to get distracted with all the other issues, you know? So I hope we can get something done, have some meaningful service, you know, for our citizens, but it all takes lots of money.

[47:50] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: Yep. Well, I think we are time to wrap up, so. Well, I just wanted to say thank you for, like, speaking with me. I really enjoyed this. And thank you for StoryCorps for putting this together. I think this is a great idea. And, yeah, I would love to continue this conversation.

[48:14] CAROL CLARK: Yeah, I think I could learn a lot more about zoonotic diseases and come to Washington and hear some jazz. Yeah. But anyway, so it's been fun. Yeah, really fun. Much, much more pleasant than I expected because I wasn't sure how they put us together. And, you know, what the dynamic might have been.

[48:43] ANNA KATHERINE GRADY: So, yeah, I'm excited this worked out well.