Anne Hatch and Rosemary Hatch

[00:03] ROSEMARY HATCH: Okay. My name is Rosemary Hatch, and I am a new 65 year old as of just a few weeks ago. Today's date is May 12, 2023, and we are in Logan, Utah. And the name of my partner here is Ann Hatch. Take it away, Ann

[00:26] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Okay. My name is Ann Clausen-Hatch and Rosemary said all the details, the dates and the place and the time. And I am 91 years old and surprising, 92 years old.

[00:48] ROSEMARY HATCH: Okay, so to start off our interview, I thought I would ask you about some of the happiest times in your life. So, Ann, what can you tell us about your experience with happiness?

[01:05] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, that's easy one, because we start in the beginning. I was born in 1931, which doesn't sound like a happy year in the United States, but for a little baby and child growing up in that time in Salt Lake City, Utah, sun was bright blue. It was a happy place for a young couple to raise a family. My mother and father made it every effort. And we had picnics, big family, and parties and trips to the mountains and picnics. And there were parks in Salt Lake. We even had a zoo once. Our house was rather close to the zoo, and we heard the elephant barking. It just made a horrible, awful noise. The zoo was on fire and burned up a stable right across the street from. It was a very dramatic thing in my childhood. And what happened to the horses? The horses ran away from the fire, so they lost all the horses, and a lot of things were killed and died. But it was a dramatic thing of my youth. Any rate, it was a beautiful place to be in Salt Lake City as a young child.

[02:15] ROSEMARY HATCH: And tell us a little bit about your mom and your dad.

[02:18] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Pardon? I can't.

[02:19] ROSEMARY HATCH: Tell us a little bit about your mom and your dad.

[02:24] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Dad was born in 1900. That made it very easy. No matter if I had any trouble with people's dates or anything, I just figured them back up to dad. I didn't know when mother was born, but it was seven years after dad, so that was easy. And that's how it worked throughout my life. And they were happy. He, with great difficulty, been to dental school, graduated, and she joined him in Chicago. And they decided to make their homes back in Utah, where they both came from and started their little family. I was the oldest, and because it was depression, I guess it was really hard for them. But we never knew. We had wonderful big christmases with Christmas trees that grandmother and grandfather came to live with us, and two uncles came to live with us. And somehow a cousin from not Alaska, but Canada, from Canada, moved down from Canada. She moved in with us. The house was bulging on Second Avenue here in Salt Lake. But we all got along well together and Santa Claus came to everybody. So it was kind of a special, a special few years of my life. 1st 1012 15 years what do you.

[03:41] ROSEMARY HATCH: Most remember about your dad?

[03:44] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: His sense of humor. He was really funny. I didn't like to get out of bed in the morning. It was a problem in the family. Once he vacuumed me out with a vacuum. There were other things just like that. He'd wear a mask and come in and scare me. He'd wrap up in something and, you know, or a ball bounce the ball on me. I was just, you know, I think he got desperate. I just like to get up in the morning with the rest of the family. But I paid for it because during that period of time I was called to go. They were going to go fishing. He was taking the two boys younger than I. I had three younger brothers, but two of them were going fishing with dad. And I was called to go with them and they called and they called and I said, I'll be down. And they took off and went fishing because they just stopped waiting for me. They thought that would teach me a lesson. I think they tried. Unfortunately it didn't. But they had a terribly good time.

[04:44] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, I've noticed that in your elderly life that still carries through. You don't like to get up early and even here they serve you your lunch rather than your breakfast because you're not up for breakfast.

[04:58] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: They're giving away my secrets. That's true.

[05:02] ROSEMARY HATCH: But you're in a late nighter so you get all the late night action in.

[05:07] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yes.

[05:08] ROSEMARY HATCH: And what time do you wake up?

[05:11] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: I make myself get up and out by twelve. At eleven breakfast comes in. I wait to get the breakfast, which is lunch. I've tried to make other arrangements but they don't do a very good breakfast at alone. So the lunch is okay and then I have dinner at five when they serve it. And then I watch some tv and so I want to read until the middle of the night. I like it. It's good. This is a nice place to be.

[05:40] ROSEMARY HATCH: Yeah. Books on tape has been your favorite friend here ever since I lost my sight.

[05:47] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: I play books all the time.

[05:50] ROSEMARY HATCH: And tell us about your site. What happened when you were little?

[05:55] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: I had about seven years old. I had bad hay fever and I sneezed. I sneezed and my mother couldn't stand it any longer. The doctor in those early days was ear, eye, nose and throat. So for all his hay fever. She took me to the doctor and let me sneeze. And he said, oh, definitely, she needs shots. And I said, check on my eyes. No, we're here. It's about your nose. Just to check on my eyes. I can't see. And the man overheard. Doctor overheard. He said, well, I'll just check out her eyes. And he said, read the number on the screen up above. And I said, what number? It was one of those big e's. You remember that? When they had a big e?

[06:35] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, they still do.

[06:37] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Do they still.

[06:37] ROSEMARY HATCH: Oh, yeah.

[06:38] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, I could see it. Mother ran to the telephone and called dad. He was in his dental office around the corner, and he came running down. So I walked out of with the subscription for I didn't get hearing aids, but I did get glasses. And from that date on, I wore glasses for nearsightedness. I was nearsighted. Mother said, I don't understand this at all. Not a person in our family wears glasses. And you. Oh, wait, your uncle Fent, he couldn't get in the army, he was so blind. And at the very end of the war, about 1944 or so, they called him up and other people that were left over, and he shipped him over to Europe. And he served in the general's office in secretarial things, typing, because he could see and type, and it was very important to them. And he served an important part of the army despite the fact that he wore glasses. So I thought that was a funny story.

[07:38] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, from not being able to see anything to all of a sudden being able to see a lot, how did that change your life?

[07:46] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, it made a big difference. Yeah, it really did. I was proud of them. Yeah. And I am embarrassed to think of all the different times I got. They changed. They kept getting worse and worse, and I kept getting bigger and bigger. Glass frames. Yeah. Tripping over them.

[08:03] ROSEMARY HATCH: Do you remember the first thing that you saw with your glasses on?

[08:07] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, that's a good question. I could think about it, but right off the bat now, probably in the doctor's office, we had to wait what seemed like weeks. It was probably a day or two, but went back and got the glasses in the. Yeah.

[08:22] ROSEMARY HATCH: Like all of a sudden you could see grass growing outside.

[08:26] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Exactly.

[08:26] ROSEMARY HATCH: Trees.

[08:27] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, I know what happened that night. We went to a concert in the football field at the University of Utah. A young woman was singing. If I could just get up her name. She was an early singer, the metropolitan. And I could hear her. I knew that I'd be able to hear her eventually. When I got in, could see her when I got the glasses, and, yeah, I could hear her, but I couldn't see her. Yeah. So I had that to look forward to.

[08:55] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, that also must have a play into becoming a painter. So tell us a little bit about your painting career and your life is a painful.

[09:05] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, maybe it worked an opposite way. I'm not sure. I couldn't sing bad. I mean, really bad. And it was sort of stand on the stage with everybody else and just move your mouth. Don't sing, Ann. So, you know, it wasn't too good. So instead, I started. I could color. It was coloring. And once I took a little trip from Salt Lake to San Francisco to visit, stay with an aunt. I went with a couple of her other cousins came from Ogden, and two strange cousins I met from Ogden. They were older, like, they were seven and nine, and here I was only six. But I had a little coloring book, and I colored in all the way two days from Ogden to salt lake and loved it. And I guess maybe that's the start. I don't know.

[09:58] ROSEMARY HATCH: Mm hmm. And where did it take you? Because art always takes you somewhere from coloring to. What other kind of things did you do?

[10:08] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, well, an interesting way to put it. Yeah. The first class I ever had was at East High school, and it was wartime during the second world war. Please. And there were teachers weren't available, but someone returned to East High, sort of a old woman. She must have been at least 35, and she was trying to teach this unruly art class of boys that didn't want to do anything at all. And I had a really interesting watercolor lesson on how to get the watercolor on the page and how to get the sky to be dark at the top and lighter at the bottom. And, you know, just difficult things that you do in that time. And that was about the first time that was. Would have been as late as junior in high school. Then I took some more classes when I was a senior, then at the university. I went for a couple of years and really enjoyed it, but not majoring in anything. And finally it really turned out that art was what interested me the most, including the art history. And that carried me through all those years that we were traveling in Europe. I could continue, go to a museum and see painters or artists that I'd recognize their names from the time I'd spent in college, studying different artists as they grew and developed and where they had paintings. It was a rich experience, and it was an interesting thing for me to do.

[11:38] ROSEMARY HATCH: You two speak about traveling. How is it that you did so much traveling?

[11:43] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: I just. I lucked out. I married a physicist, and he liked to travel, first of all. But in addition to that, he got a job after his graduation from Caltech. He got a, with a PhD, he got a position in Europe, and it turned out I didn't know exactly what he did. I thought he was with the agriculture, and that's all I knew about. It turned out he was a spy. I mean, imagine if I'd known, how wonderful. I would have thought that Washington. But I didn't know that, fortunately. And he interrogated and talked to the people who came in. The country was divided. The ones who could break out of East Germany, break through the line and get into West Germany where they wanted to be free, had to be interviewed, some of them, if they thought they had any information. And one of the men that Eastman spent a great deal of time with was a man who had been in Germany, captured, sent to Russia, was a number of years working in Russia and is sent back, and he got his family to escape. It was a very exciting way. He got the family out through the border and into West Berlin, and then he was hidden by the US. Actually, it was the dentist. I mean, the navy. Eastman really was working this through the navy, did some of this, and Eastman happened to be a civilian in the navy and interviewed that man for over a year to get the information he had and other situations like that. But that man was particularly interesting to Eastman. So, yeah, it was an interesting job for Eastman, and he just kept quiet about it. It was years before he ever broke down at a party one night he was having, it must have been 30 years later when he said, by the way, it wasn't agriculture at all.

[13:50] ROSEMARY HATCH: That's a long time holding the secret, huh? Yeah, from the family. So that did a lot of. So you did a lot of traveling in Europe, but after that you've done a lot of traveling elsewhere. What other places have you been to?

[14:09] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, we could color cover Europe pretty well, for one thing, I think gas was twenty four cents a gallon, if I remember correctly.

[14:19] ROSEMARY HATCH: I don't know. I paid a ton for gas today.

[14:23] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: And we had a nice little new german car that we bought and traveled all over, and we did pretty well. He did exceptionally well. Is that interesting, do you think, that I'm a big traveler? Well, I've been to Egypt and. Help me. I don't.

[14:41] ROSEMARY HATCH: You've been to China.

[14:43] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: China was a favorite. Yes, we've been there a couple of times. I have with Eastman with friends. I've been lucky. We went in quite early when people were allowed to go in first, and it was pretty primitive. I wish I could think of the year that was. I think we spent our 20th wedding anniversary there, so it had to be as early as 22. No, it couldn't have been as early as 45. Absolutely not. Any rate, it was an early date. I'm sorry to be so vague on dates, but we were, there weren't very many tourists, and we went with a german guide, and they took us, I'm sorry, Russian. Wait a minute. Start over with a chinese guide. And he took us exactly where he wanted to go, and we stayed exactly where he said we could go. But we did get to see one wonderful thing that was just opened up. We saw the clay men that were made in. Oh, gosh, I'm forgetting, I'm so old, the name of the town. You'd know if I. I know the minute I walk out the door. All these statues of men they discovered were buried in the ground. They were life size or bigger, row after row after row, and they just discovered them. And they'd been buried there for years and years and were being dug out. And we were able to go and see and look down into the caves and columns of these men. They were all decorated like soldiers, which they were supposed to be, and they had different clothing on and different symbols and so on. But if you step back other ways, they all look like just rows and rows of japanese soldiers. Well, since it's become common, if you knew, if I made a good description, you'd say the name right away, you should go, and then you could help me, because it's such a common place for people to go now, and we were early on to do that. I haven't thought of it. I haven't shown you the pictures of it for so long. Too bad.

[16:53] ROSEMARY HATCH: Yeah. I know that you've been to China, and there were some interesting things there, but I'm japanese, japanese american, and I know you've been to Japan with me, so tell about that.

[17:05] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, that was fun, wasn't it?

[17:08] ROSEMARY HATCH: It sure was.

[17:08] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: What we did is this was many years later, in much more elaborate and easier to go, and the food was a lot better and the weather even. But we had a ship, that big cruise. Cruise ship. And your husband was, I believe he worked on that ship, if I remember, and we drove around the island. The country started in one city in Japan and drove around the island, came back on the other side, even drove over to, to the korean side oh, right back. We were only there for a day and hardly got off the boat. But we did see some children marching in the school, and it was a very interesting time to be there. And it was a beautiful country. The flowers were blooming, you know, like you read and see in pictures. We saw those blossoms that you see in the japanese.

[18:05] ROSEMARY HATCH: Yeah, the cherry blossoms.

[18:06] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Oh, wasn't that pretty?

[18:07] ROSEMARY HATCH: It sure was. And I remember we started in the, the southern part of Japan and went up to the north part. So we were, like, in all the different stages of the cherry blossoms. And we had cherry blossoms everywhere.

[18:21] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Right. They kept blooming. We transferred up. Yeah, it was beautiful. And it was so clean. So was China. I had no complaints about chinese streets and paper and everything that wasn't around. But one big difference was, in China, there were bikes everywhere. Just the street was just full of bicycles. In Japan, by the time we got there a few years later, there were more buses. There were a lot of people on bikes, but it wasn't the same feeling. The transportation was more sophisticated. Cars and buses in addition to the bicycles, but bicycles in China, wow. They were interesting experiences. I would wish everyone would have time to go to a country that's so underdeveloped, undeveloped.

[19:13] ROSEMARY HATCH: And how about trips to Africa?

[19:19] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: They were of a different color. They really were different. Talk about undeveloped. A friend said, you got to come with us. There's only going to be 30 of us, 15 men and 15 women. And we friended this plane, and we're going to fly down and we're going to see Africa. We flew into. Gosh, I should have checked all this out into. Oh, dear, where do we fly into? Well, there wasn't any choice at the time.

[19:55] ROSEMARY HATCH: Somewhere in South Africa.

[19:56] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yeah, in South Africa. No, we didn't go to South Africa that time. We've been to South Africa later. We flew to South Africa and stayed down at the point, the tip of the mountain. And the one thing we did not do, and I would recommend other people do it, is to go to see the island off of the coast of South Africa, where they kept prisoners and the man who later became their president of the whole South Africa. But we did a lot of traveling there and seeing elephants and animals and so on. But before we were up north, much, much further, it was a different trip and different people entirely. And so I've forgotten that we had two trips to Africa. Thanks for encouraging me to remember now.

[20:43] ROSEMARY HATCH: How did this all tie in with your art?

[20:48] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Isn't that terrible? It didn't. I took pictures, but I rarely on the boat, when we were a ship, we were sailing, I'd walk around trying to draw something, and I'd end up drawing the passenger seats or something stupid in the boat. And it wasn't anything interesting to me, so I kind of gave up and never did very much that way. Isn't that awful? I intended to.

[21:13] ROSEMARY HATCH: Did you do some later when you got back home?

[21:16] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yeah, a little bit.

[21:17] ROSEMARY HATCH: And you didn't have the waves crashing on you?

[21:20] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: That's true. I didn't. The paper getting wet and getting. Yeah. No, I always took the. Took the drawing paper with me and the charcoal, but I guess I was lazy or else the scenery was so beautiful and the food so good, and we ate, and at night we danced sometimes or there were lectures, particularly good lectures. We were lucky in choosing. We chose really good organizations and trips to go with. So we knew beforehand what we were going to see and where we were going to go so we could study up on it. They gave us a list of things to read, and then on the cruise ship there would be lectures. And these men that we traveled with were east friends. They were all scholars, they were surgeons, a couple of them. And he used to be the physicist. They had all these interests. And christians don't think. They didn't ask, raise their hands and ask questions when we went to a lecture. But it made it fun.

[22:23] ROSEMARY HATCH: Okay, now let's draw all those worldly trips back to Utah. You have a very special place in the Uinta mountains that also has to do with doing more art.

[22:36] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Tell us about that. Well, unbeknownst to me, I was lucky enough to fall in love with a young man, and he took me up and showed me his family home up in the mountains out of a little town called Pioa, Oakley of Pioa, Utah. It took about an hour, an hour and a half to get there from Salt Lake. And the roads weren't phased. But when we got up there, there was some electricity. I guess when we first got up there, there was no electricity. It was. There was a stove in the kitchen and lanterns. And then the first thing that happened after we got married and moved up, they did bring in a line and there was electricity. Then later on, years later, they brought in telephones. So now it's pretty, you know, and it's not that far away. It's just speed up there. Now from Salt Lake, I bet young men could get there in less than an hour, but we spent hours up there. It was a ranch. It was a sheep ranch. And the sheep actually ran on it. Not over our property, unless it was a mistake. But they bring in a few, and they were, they were tended by people from Peru. Men would come up and spend the summer in Peru and move the sheep up the hill until they ate, you know, all the grass, brought them down, got them in big trucks, and took them out to Toola, and that was where they spent the winter. Then they bring them back the next year and bring them up and dump them out. And we watched all this whole process and watched the little babies grow up to be, I guess, meat loaf or something. But anyway, the sheep, it was a beautiful place. It still is. It's still private property. So there are a few more homes, but not a lot.

[24:32] ROSEMARY HATCH: Right.

[24:34] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: The family's lucky to be able to keep it. The cabin itself is 100 years old now, so earlier ones were just about 130 years old. So.

[24:44] ROSEMARY HATCH: Yes. So now one of your favorite things up at the cabin in Uinta mountains is wildflowers. Tell us about all the art you've done with wildflowers.

[24:57] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: At Utah State University, there was a famous professor for wildflowers, and he'd done a little booklet on wildflowers of Utah for one of the things. And I'd look through that little booklet, and I took it up there, and the kids helped with this. Our oldest son, Joe, would bring in these little flowers. Mother, what is this? And I started pasting them in books, and the cabin in front of us was within walking distance, and we could see it out of the cabin. Excuse me. It was an aunt's cabin and an aunt of Eastman's mother's. I mean, a sister of Eastman's mother and full of cousins, and she had collected, this aunt had made a wildflower collection. So I thought, I'm going to do that. I took art Holmgrens class at the university and learned how to do it and learned the names, or tried to. And then Joe and other members, other people helped me collect the specimens, and I have them. Till today, I still got them pressed and leaving the books up there for anyone who wants to sit and look through them. It isn't as interesting to as many people as I thought it would be, but I love sitting and looking through, you know, five or six different types of blue daisies and dozens of roses and, you know, wild roses and things. At any rate, some of them are particularly pretty and some of them are weeds, but they came from all over the area around the cabin. I worked on it for about three or four years, constantly in the summer when I was there, and putting it together was easier than the collecting, I think. But that was really fun.

[26:41] ROSEMARY HATCH: Tell us a little bit about your family, your kids.

[26:46] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Now, we should have started with that because they were really interesting. Dad had gone to dental school. Mother met him in town in Salt Lake and joined him to the end of the time in Chicago, where he was in dental school. They were married and came home, and it was depression, and there were no places for jobs or people that could afford to get their teeth done or anything else. But they had a little rented house and set up practice, and he set up a practice, and I wish I knew that story, because it would be interesting to tell. Somehow the man that lent him the space took his tools all the way from him and kicked him out. So he lost his space to practice and had to start all over again and buy new tools, dental equipment. And someone else put their arm around him and gave him a place to practice. Used my chair, you know, the hours I'm not working. And slowly he build a practice. You have to have more than just your cousins to make a living. And he did. And eventually he built a beautiful practice, and he had three chairs and a couple of nurses and a man who did all his. He did a lot of false teeth towards the end, a lot of whole mouth pieces. False teeth. He was just noted for that. And they come in from Wyoming particularly. I don't know why, but somehow he seemed to have had a reputation up there. I thought that was awful strange. But anyway, he did, and they came in from Wyoming, and he. It was, I've gone stretched way back, but this would have been in the fifties. He'd take out all the teeth and immediately put in these false teeth. Right? Immediately. And then you'd heal with these false teeth in your mouth. Then you'd go in a couple of days later and he'd clean off the teeth and clean your mouth and put the teeth back in. And that's how he healed. It was kind of a new process that he was using that he learned and very successful, evidently. And so people, he worked awfully hard during the war because he was just on the crisp of missing going. He was just a little too old to be drafted, and he got to keep his practice and stay. So when other dentists were gone, lots to do. It was hard work. But in the meantime, you know, there were more children and the houses were bigger, and we moved, and mother planted prettier flowers, and we were all happier. And they bought phonograph records and we went to the theater, and it was a rich life, even though we were restricted. I think that we didn't make a big fuss about it. It was war. When we went to the movie, we saw these horrible pictures on the screen. Why they ever showed those, I'll never know. Terrible. The war of the war, the second world war. We're letting little children see the shooting. I guess it's a lot worse now on television than it ever was than what we saw. But it didn't tamper what we were doing in school, which we loved and enjoyed. And there was gas ratcheting, so we couldn't go up to the cabins. None of those cabins were open during the war. The mothers owners would get all together and one car would go up to cabin, check and make sure that was okay. The cabin was fine. The little rodents weren't getting in and destroying the cabin. And, you know, it was fine. And they'd come out again, but no one could go up and stay. That was one big difference during the war, but other than that, and then having all the young men away. So after the war, it blossomed like up there. They all returned, or most returned. And horses were purchased, cabins refurnished, and we stayed up longer, and electricity went in. So it was a whole new world up there after the war.

[30:44] ROSEMARY HATCH: One of the things that you're really proud about, and that's really dear to you is your family. Can you tell us about that? You've talked about your mother and your father, but you have some brothers and the whole cousins and wives and just all sorts of things, and your own kids and grandkids, so tell us a little bit about that.

[31:08] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, I guess Salt Lake did that. It was a family. Family. We have grandparents and they were born in 1870, 518, 70 along in there, and then my dad, 1900. And they lived with us. Grandma and grandpa did, after a while, when the depression came and we did things all together. But there were aunts. One uncle was a bank in a bank, and he was one of the vice presidents. And if we could just sneak in the bank without his seeing us, it was a game we played. But he sat by the door. He always found us, any rate, dumb things. You remember Uncle Wynn? But he had a nice family and children, and another brother of dad's was busy with civil things. He led the. Oh, they had this big rodeo. Yeah, with the fence. Yeah, there was a rodeo, and we'd all go to the rodeo. And there was Uncle Kink directing. Uncle King directing the carnal. Yeah. So the family was involved in things, and then they had a big family, and we had thanksgivings together and christmases together. What is interesting to me now, and all these associations they were. I was a bridesmaid when I was a little girl to one of my older cousins, and I had a little cousin next to me from another family. I had blonde hair and she had dark hair, and we were little bridesmaids, little girls walking down the aisle first before the ride and that sort of thing. Now I have one cousin in my age, 90. 90. She turns 90 this year, that lives in Salt Lake, a daughter of my uncle Sheenkin and no one else. I can't imagine it. I can't believe it. Everybody moved away. All of the dentists that were second and third generation moved out. All of the business people did more work in New York. All Eastman's family did the same thing. They'd done very well in Utah, in both Ogden and Salt Lake. They moved to New York. Ours didn't settle all in New York. We had some up in Oregon and some on the lots in California. California was a big drawing from people from Utah. And now I have to laugh. I have a friend who's like, I am. She's turning 92 this year, and she told me on the phone the other day that several of her grandchildren are moving back to Salt Lake City. Her grandchildren didn't see Salt Lake growing up unless she drove them out to see it. But she was back in New York and there were so many things to see back there that they didn't get kids out to see the great Salt Lake, which we thought was so wonderful. And it was when we swam in it, but nobody swam in it later. So, any rate, these things have evolved and changed, and we've been able to see that change. And I liked the way it was by the way, the sky was so blue in Utah. It was really pretty.

[34:44] ROSEMARY HATCH: How about your own kids? Where did they all go to?

[34:48] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: I had three, and one's in north, South Dakota, ones in.

[35:01] ROSEMARY HATCH: New Mexico.

[35:03] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yeah, New Mexico, and one's in Utah. Someone has to take care of us here.

[35:09] ROSEMARY HATCH: So you had one Utah son that moved right back to Utah to be with you.

[35:16] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: He moved with his wife, a talent, talented couple, and he's a magician and she's a musician. And they moved to Texas. No, from Texas. Yes, they. Yes, they were. And moved up here from Texas to stay with us because we were old. Weren't we lucky? And fortunately, I guess they liked it and they stayed. So that's.

[35:46] ROSEMARY HATCH: Any other last minute thing that you want to tell that you want us to remember from your life?

[35:57] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Well, it's nice to remember how helpful the family was in the interplay with each other, helping each other. Dad could help one or two getting fishing poles or where to go fishing with a good fishing walls and where to go hunting. Mother did and grandmother, grandmother Richardson, maternal grandmother, did all kinds of sewing. And you could take something to grandma. She could cut a pattern for a dress out of the newspaper. She'd look up. My mother, when my mother was like a teenager, needed a new dress. She'd look at her and sort of cut out the newspaper pattern and pat the newspaper pattern around her and say, mm hmm. Come back in a day or two, and I'll have it finished. She did beautiful sewing. She born and raised in Smithfield, Utah. That's north of Salt Lake. And when she was eight years old, she had to stop because she was the next child in line. It was her turn to tend the mother. The mother was not. Well, part of the reason. Part of the reason was the father had abandoned the family. Eight girls, and I can't tell you the number of boys, but not that many, seven or six. And abandoned the family. And so they kind of scraped around for existence. And grandmother started at this young age, sewing and so on. It took all these talents with her. Later on, she made up for a lot of that and was very active in her relief society and the things that were important to her. We could take anything we wanted. Grandmother, do you have a purple piece of material? I need it for something. Or if we needed costumes at school. Grandma helped me, you know, it was wonderful. And I had an aunt. This is the clausen side of the family. But she, as I said, she started to be an artist at 43. That was a little late, but we all had a picture in our house that she'd done. Some of them got put in the back bathroom, but basically she did all right. She had a beautiful, beautiful garden, so she could paint her garden flowers. I'm trying to think. I can't think of anyone really outstanding. If I think hard, I probably could. We married into families like I married my husband. He could play the piano, and he was really good, but he didn't. He was a physicist, so you don't count him. And there weren't. Now we've got a magician, but we haven't had anybody that in this great big Clawson family that I can tell you about. They were all actors when I was growing up. We'd see the family reunion. They had been actors in the Salt Lake theater. And nobody is an actor anymore, particularly that I know of. Maybe they have the changed name. They don't have the closet name and I don't know them, but I don't remember. That kind of things kind of changed. That's too bad. What interested you about our family? Why did you join such a crazy family? It was opposite of yours.

[39:14] ROSEMARY HATCH: Because I fell in love with the crazy magician.

[39:17] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: There you go.

[39:18] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, it seems that it's what you value the most is your family. And it doesn't have to be really big things, but simple things that make life enjoyable and happy and brings you happiness.

[39:36] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yes, you're right. Yeah. The fact that they could catch a fish, bring home a bird. That we were all going to have to eat for dinner. But do make things. They could make things. Dad made stuff. We all learned to make stuff with what we had, right?

[39:59] ROSEMARY HATCH: So you do what you can with what you've got. And that's what we all have to learn.

[40:04] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: That was a grandma Clausen and grandma Richardson right there.

[40:10] ROSEMARY HATCH: Okay.

[40:11] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Yeah.

[40:11] ROSEMARY HATCH: Well, thank you for your time with us and with me and I. Thanks for being my mother in law.

[40:19] ANN CLAUSEN-HATCH: Thank you for being my daughter in law. 10 seconds of silence.