Annette Karr and John Baker

[00:01] JOHN BAKER: Hi, my name is John. Today is January 25, 2023. I am 57 years old and I am in Wichita, Kansas. Annette is my one step partner.

[00:19] ANNETTE KARR: My name is Annette Karr and today is January 25, 2023. I am 72 years old. I'm in Wichita, Kansas, and I'm here with John, my one small step partner. John, what made you want to do this interview today?

[00:37] JOHN BAKER: Well, I saw the introduction to the program in downtown Wichita Rotary Club probably within the last six months or so. And I thought it would be interesting to participate. How about yourself?

[00:55] ANNETTE KARR: Well, I've listened to Storycorps quite a bit and I've listened to some of the one small step. And I really think that this is a way to bring healing. Just to recognize that how much we are alike and what we share as opposed to our differences. And I really support this program. Okay, John, I'm a 57 year old man with four children, 1822 24 and 26. God is a very important factor in my life. Have been a commercial insurance agent for 30 years. Was born in Detroit, Michigan. Have lived in California, Spain, Michigan and Kansas City. And consider myself a moderate republican, conservative and love people of all kinds. My first question is, what did you do in Spain?

[02:06] JOHN BAKER: Well, my dad worked for Chrysler, so I was born in Detroit and then we were transferred to California. So we moved to Madrid, Spain when I was in 6th, 7th and 8th grade. So I lived in Madrid and went to school there at american school and really enjoyed Spain.

[02:27] ANNETTE KARR: I was just quite fascinated with that. And I'd like to know about your family, your children. Are theydehethere? Are they sons, daughters or what are they doing?

[02:42] JOHN BAKER: I have four children. My youngest is Megan Baker and she is 18. She is a sophomore at the University of Kansas. My son, Jack Baker, he is 21 and he goes to school at Washburn in Topeka, Kansas, and he's on the golf team there. And then Mia Baker lives in Kansas City. She graduated from the University of Kansas two years ago and she works for travelers Insurance company. And then my oldest daughter, Maureen Baker lives here in Wichita. Spends time between her mother and myself. Maureen has down syndrome, but she will continue to live with her family.

[03:35] ANNETTE KARR: To then just hear him unless you have any other follow up. I don't have any right now.

[03:50] JOHN BAKER: Okay. And I was born originally, originally from Cleveland, Ohio. And I was in an urbanization Democrat in 1979. I was a Vista volunteer and was placed in a small town in central Kansas. I thought I was only there for a year. 43 years later, I still reside in Kansas. I have faced a number of challenges throughout the years and beginning stepped in a heavy red state and was one of them. Along with the groundedness that I have experienced living in the heartland, have had the opportunity to meet, confront and honor the others.

[04:30] ANNETTE KARR: What's Vista Vista is a volunteer in service to America. It was like the domestic Peace Corps.

[04:36] JOHN BAKER: Okay.

[04:36] ANNETTE KARR: And I had asked to be on the east or west coast because I saw myself very urban. And Uncle Sam had something else in mind and he sent me to McPherson, Kansas. And I said, it's only for a year. And now, 40 some years later, I'm still in Kansas.

[04:55] JOHN BAKER: So what did you do when you were a volunteer then?

[04:57] ANNETTE KARR: Actually, I came out here and I was working with developmentally disabled adults and working in an educational program for that. It was MCDs, which was in McPherson, and have worked off and on. I've done work with that organization.

[05:17] JOHN BAKER: What made you stay there?

[05:19] ANNETTE KARR: I really felt the groundedness of coming to Kansas. There's just something that I just, I really, I have just loved it and I love the quietness and it just, it's brought out a lot more out of me.

[05:42] JOHN BAKER: And you said you're a Democrat. Are you still?

[05:48] ANNETTE KARR: Yes.

[05:49] JOHN BAKER: Yeah.

[05:50] ANNETTE KARR: But not as constricted a Democrat as I once was. You know, I am. I think that's one. And in fact, that's one of the reasons why with this program, it's like, okay, let's, how can we honor that, you know, someone that we see as the other.

[06:11] JOHN BAKER: Sure.

[06:12] ANNETTE KARR: And where do we, and where do we work together? That's, that's, you know, but I, but, yeah, I still affiliate with, with the democratic party.

[06:20] JOHN BAKER: Do you have family?

[06:22] ANNETTE KARR: I did not marry or did not have any children. I've just been floating through life.

[06:27] JOHN BAKER: Great.

[06:32] ANNETTE KARR: Okay. The one person that made most tremendous influence in my life was my father. I'm sorry, can you ask this question to you, John? 0000 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, John, tell me about one or two people in your life who have made the biggest influence on you, and what did they teach you?

[07:12] JOHN BAKER: Probably my mother growing up, she was very supportive of me in my challenges. I'm dyslexic. And when I was a child, people really didn't know what was going on. They thought that you were kind of lazy, didn't want to study or work, and you acted up in school. And my mom always supported me in getting through the school, through high school, grade school and college. And she was always a very big supporter of me. And we were pretty open with each other about almost pretty much anything other person who had a big impact on me was probably, from a business standpoint, in a career. George Ablaw, who was a real estate developer, he passed away, I believe, eight or ten years ago. My father worked with him and George would always be hard on me and keep me in line and give me directions, and we would go have breakfast and he would ask me what was going on, how I was doing, and I'd tell him if I was doing well, I was doing bad. And I was always able to ask him for direction and guidance and things that I was struggling with. How about yourself?

[08:40] ANNETTE KARR: Well, my father was one of the most influential. When I was a child, I was hit by a car and I had a brain injury and. Which resulted in epilepsy. And when I was about twelve, I was just wanting, I wanted pity and I wanted it from my father. I was really feeling sorry for myself. And he said to me, you can walk, you can talk, you can see. All of those things could have been taken from you. You need to be thankful. Which was not what I wanted to hear at the time, but those words have, they have been a guide for my life and it's really rooted me in the sense of recognizing gratitude. And I deeply appreciate that. And that was a flavor of what my father's teaching was overall, too, in the sense of gratitude. And another person was a very dear friend of mine, Lou, who, he and I, we challenged each other. We constantly. I want you to be the best that you can be. And again, it wasn't one of those easy circumstances, but we helped one another grow so much. And I'm deeply appreciative of, of what he offered me.

[10:14] JOHN BAKER: Thanks for sharing. My voice is hoarse. I'm sorry.

[10:22] ANNETTE KARR: And then could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

[10:34] JOHN BAKER: Well, I'm a registered Republican. I find myself to be moderate in my overall beliefs and values. I think the older that I've gotten, the more open minded I have become to other people's points of view. Recently, in the last probably ten years, I feel that the country has gotten so divided. I mean, there's not a moderate Republican, there's not a moderate Democrat. You're either way right, way left. And I tend to try to look at both sides and inform my own beliefs. Just because the republican party wants this or the Democratic Party wants that, I don't think it's wrong because they want that. Everything's right. My brother, James Baker, has been, he's a lawyer and he worked for the government for over 40 years. And he's a registered Democrat. And lives in DC, but he's very open minded. And he worked in the Justice Department as a prosecutor, and then he was involved in 911, and he was in charge of the FISA courts, which are the courts that you had to go to to get permission to spy on people and to get warrants and things. After that, he left the government for a while, took a job at Verizon business, and then he went back to the Justice Department as an associate deputy to the Justice Department. And then he was the general counsel for the FBI for James Comey. So I saw him get attacked after James Comey left and all the controversy that was going on and being really beat up from the Republicans. And I could see it firsthand and made me realize that people, just because of one side or another, that they're right, are wrong. And I'm very proud of my brother for what he's done. And after he was at the FBI, and you'll still see things on the news about him, he was the deputy general counsel for Twitter. And when Elon Musk bought Twitter, he got rid of everybody. Did not get rid of my brother until about three or four weeks ago. And he's been on the tv, and you've seen him. He was also a commentator for CNN. So my brother's very, he's partisan. He doesn't, he's so straight. And I was the wild child, and I was the partier, the drinker, the this, the that, and still am. And he's always been a very straightforward, smart, brilliant man. And when people attack him, that really hurts me, too. And that's why. And they, and everybody points to him, including friends of mine, because I hang out with a lot of, I think most of the people I hang out with are very overly conservative, and they, you know, they bag on different things and stuff. So my views, from a political standpoint have been changed because of the attacks and things that they've done on my brother. And I know what he's saying is the truth. He doesn't bend the truth or get on the edge of things. I do. So could you please briefly describe your own, in your own words, your personal political values?

[14:44] ANNETTE KARR: Well, first of all, I'm a child of the sixties, and I grew up in a democratic home. But during, I cut my political teeth in 1972 working for George McGovern, and I just put my heart and soul into that. And it was initially because of the Vietnam war. And I was able to see George a few years back before he had died and he was in Lincoln, Nebraska. And one of the things that warmed my heart so much in his presentation was the fact that he and Bob Dole were working together on a hunger program. And, you know, and he was saying, he said, yeah, Bob and I, you know, we didn't always agree with one another, but we came together. We found places where they could work together, and the whole aspect of honoring the other, and that made me even more proud. I was able to shake his hand and tell him that working in your, in your campaign helped shape my life. My perspective is of a more liberal, although I have some liberal friends who kind of put walls down, you know, they don't want, they're not as expansive to people that are more conservative. Some of my dearest friends are conservative people, too. And I just, I think we all have different places and different perspectives, and when we can come together, something creative can really happen. And, but, and chances are I will, you know, be having a d by my name probably till I die. But the, it doesn't mean that I'm not willing to vote for a Republican, though. And I have throughout my past. But an interesting thing, as I have grown, as you're talking about your brother and the FBI, that child of the sixties was not, I was sort of hostile towards the government. FBI today. I have been supporting and wanting all of the attacks on the FBI. I have been really supportive of them. And I'm going, hmm. One has an opportunity to grow and change. And I really, I'm appreciating all that has come to me that has allowed me to grow. And I am glad that I have the other. But people bringing another perspective to me.

[17:52] JOHN BAKER: Well, you notice, too, like with all the, you know, right now they're doing the same attacks on the FBI with the Biden investigations and why they didn't do this, why they didn't do that, but they did it to Trump. And it's easy for people to jump on the bandwagon against either way, but if you look at, in reality, they're just trying to do the right thing for the people of the country. But it's so easy now to aim things at each other.

[18:22] ANNETTE KARR: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[18:28] JOHN BAKER: Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you? And if so, how?

[18:35] ANNETTE KARR: Well, one of the things in McPherson, there was a group of people, well, as a massage therapist, I kept political, I kept things really low key because having a business. But then during the, during the Iraq war, there was going to be a vigil for families who had lost someone in the war, and my mother had lost her first husband in world War Two. So this was personal to me. You know, this was really personal. And I said, okay, I'm just going to get out there. And I organized some people and we had a vigil. And actually, then a number of them, they gathered together. We met on a weekly basis. We called ourselves people of peace. And there were some people that, there was one man who wanted to take up a collection to get a one way ticket to send me to Iraq. I mean, it was the, you would not believe it was in McPherson. Because of my leading this particular organization, I was either this angel or I was a spawn of the devil. I mean, it was really hard for quite a, it was a very difficult situation. And the interesting thing, as time passed, and I'll share with you, too, I have a little dog that he's missing an eye. And so I've written a book, and it's, his message is, even though he's not perfect, he's worth a million. And we go to the schools and all of this, that actually was more radical than what I was doing with people of peace. I'm saying to all these kids, I don't care if you're a C student or an A student, you have value. When I was doing that, going into the schools and doing that, oh, the same people who thought I was a spawn of the devil just thought it was wonderful, you know, but when I, the word peace just brought out such hostility from a lot of people, it was just, it was really, it was hard. It was very, that was very difficult. How about you? Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you? And how so?

[21:16] JOHN BAKER: A couple of ways. One, probably with my friends and my friends spouses. Two in particular, one of my best friends from college, Brian Bartuch, who lives in Chicago and actually was a dj in college at KmEw and late night, that kind of made me think of him when I was coming in here. His wife is super, super, super conservative, watches Fox all the time, and believes 100% in what Trump did and what Trump said and who was a big Trump lover. And she knows what my brother does. So she would always send me things here or there, but, you know, and I would defend him and just say he's bipartisan, he's doing what's right. And so she would misunderstand. I believe then that I didn't, that I wasn't conserved, I wasn't a Republican, which I am. So I think she misunderstood me. And then I, at work in Wichita, our office is small. We've probably got 1516 people I started the office myself eleven years ago. It's a fee insurance group. We have an office in McPherson also, but based out of Hutchinson. Two of the girls in our office are very, very liberal. And sometimes I'll make a comment and they take it differently than what I'm really trying to say. They misunderstood me. And when I try to clarify myself, they just try to go after me more and more. One, Lori. We recently moved into a new office, and it's kind of an open feeling. And there's a television in the kitchen break room. And I get into work early. I usually get there 645 seven. And I always watch Fox News in the morning. I like Fox and Friends. I dislike the show because of the news. And she comes into the office and she said, why do you have that on the tv? You're making this a hostile environment. I'm like, Lori, if you don't like it, just turn the channel. It's fine with me. If you want to watch CNN, we can watch CNN. So she misunderstands me by what I had on. And she actually called our HR people and had them call us and tell us that we should watch nonpartisan stations, which I don't think you can listen to one and hear the same thing or hear different views. So it didn't really bother me then. What's really caught my, my views is that when we, when we were going through the voting on abortion rights or whatever, she was really into voting. I think it was voting no because it was opposite of whatever it really was. And she put stickers on her car, and I made a comment to her. I said, Lori, you should really not have that on there. Someone might vandalize your car. And I was saying it as a friend, and she got mad at me. And then she starts telling me how I should respect the woman's body and things. So I think she misunderstood me and she didn't want me to say things to her against her values, but then she was doing it to me. So I think there was a lot of misunderstanding there, but it doesn't bother me.

[24:50] ANNETTE KARR: Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you, people on your own side and how they communicate those beliefs to others?

[25:00] JOHN BAKER: Again, going back to one of my very good friends, Bob, and his wife Danita, is one of those people that sits around and watches all these conservative shows and reads this stuff, and she doesn't believe in, she doesn't believe in any other sides. And she is always trying to make me think that I'm different than what I am, if that makes sense. How about yourself?

[25:41] ANNETTE KARR: Well, again, when someone gets into a very narrowed, a narrowed liberal view is, you know, is as narrow as a conservative view. I mean, you know, and when they see that, when they see the person of the different belief system as the enemy and they get into that and they don't hear. They're not hearing. I mean, that's, I mean, what you were talking about just with the woman at work, you know, listen to what people are saying and to be able to say, what are you? Is this what, is this what you're telling me? Or is it just this little. Their perception of what you're expressing and their defensiveness? You know, I think if we just stopped having our dukes up so much, we might be able to really hear one another. And I think, you know, I think one of the biggest things is how many, how often do you say, do people say, is this what you were telling me? Is this, is what I heard? Is that what, is that what you're telling me? And, you know, I have a number of people, friends, who are, you know, very defensive with, you know, regarding their liberal viewpoint and not hearing. Not hearing.

[27:08] JOHN BAKER: I forgot. Excuse me, I forgot to tell you. I also one of. We have two dogs. Our family has two dogs and they travel both houses wherever the kids are and things when they're around. I also have a one eyed dog. Well, I have a. Let me tell you, let me tell you. So this is bogey and he's a german shepherd and the other dog is a chihuahua. And I used to hate small dogs. And when I got divorced, my ex wife bought Chihuahua for my kids because she didn't, she knew I didn't like small talks. We get along great now. But Winnie was over. Winnie's, the Chihuahuas over. Not this last thanksgiving, but the thanksgiving before. And so the german shepherd was barely a year old and they got along great. But I made the mistake of giving each of them a bone and the german shepherd ate the bone first and he went to sniff around to get the bone from the Chihuahua and the chihuahua bit him and he, out of reaction, he went, bit back and he bit the eye out of the dog. So now we call her one eyed Winnie.

[28:32] ANNETTE KARR: I didn't know how big you were, so I got three different size t shirts. And this is Wink's motto. Think, Wink, you are worth a million. What size do you wear?

[28:44] JOHN BAKER: Large.

[28:45] ANNETTE KARR: Well, here you go.

[28:51] JOHN BAKER: Thank you.

[28:51] ANNETTE KARR: You're welcome. I just knew that you would. Not everybody would receive that. But I just had a sensing that you would that you.

[29:01] JOHN BAKER: Well, she's a good dog, but for a while, she was running into walls because she couldn't see. She gets long. Great.

[29:07] ANNETTE KARR: Now, well, you know, Wink is a poodle, and this friend of mine who rescued, he's a vet, and he had rescued Wink. And, you know, he said, I've got this dog for you. And in Wink's little book, you know, he hears this lady say, well, you know, I really don't like french poodles. I mean, to me that was just the frou Frou. And then he plops this little fluffy dog, and I just fell in love with him. And I've learned again, that was my. One of the greatest moments. See, we've gone to schools and churches and libraries and I've read the book. And then one time, this little boy said, well, why didn't you like french poodles? And I stopped and I said, you know, I met a couple of them. They were yappy. So I just thought they were all that way. I said, that's kind of silly, isn't it? He goes, yeah. And I said, do we do that with people? You know? And it was just this. You know, I never even thought of using that as a teaching moment with the kids, you know, but that was. And so then after that, I would incorporate that. And when I would read that, I said, you know, isn't that silly? Don't you know, we. We meet a few and we think everybody's just like that. That's how I thought of french poodles. You know, they were just these snooty little dogs. And, you know, again, we get to learn, and I have learned so much. So much. Well, in fact, one of the. We started going to doing children's services in churches, and the only thing that I changed at the end, you know, because wink was seen as a reject. And I said, I said, now, do you think God sees wink as a reject? Oh, no, no. Do you think God sees us as a reject? No. And then I said, what would the world be like if we saw ourselves, one another and ourselves as God does? You know? I just was able just to tweak that a little bit, and it really became part of a children's service, and not just for children. I mean, adults can learn from that concept, too, you know?

[31:21] JOHN BAKER: Right.

[31:22] ANNETTE KARR: I mean, I think that's what we've been talking about.

[31:24] JOHN BAKER: Yeah. What political issues do you wish most would progress?

[31:30] ANNETTE KARR: One of the things, being 72, I'm really. I'm a member of AARP, and I'm just, you know, I'm really concerned about Medicare and Social Security and for myself and for others, too. And I work also, I work with a group called steps, and it's a group that helps people who are in poverty and we become partners with them. It's a community, and basically it's a hand up, not a hand out. In fact, I, this is their t shirt steps, and, which is, you know, there's so many different issues regarding affordable health care and childcare. You know, I've really been able to get a broader perspective of what these individuals, what kind of, you know, the challenges that they are experiencing. So, you know, healthcare. Healthcare. Well, especially for years, I was denied healthcare because I had epilepsy, even though I was healthy as a horse, but because I was still taking medication. And so when the Affordable Care act came on, I cried as I was filling out the forms because I had felt like I was a disposable person. So healthcare is another very, very important issue. How about you? What political issue do you wish the most for progress on?

[33:27] JOHN BAKER: I don't know if it's so much one issue in general, but I just wish that there wasn't such a division between sides and that people could actually work together to make progress instead of just standing still and arguing over nothing.

[33:44] ANNETTE KARR: Yeah, I'm in agreement with you on that.

[33:55] JOHN BAKER: Is there a major issue that you've changed in your mind and why?

[34:03] ANNETTE KARR: Oh, my. Let's see. Yeah, I'm having a hard time.

[34:18] JOHN BAKER: Is there a major issue you've changed your mind on?

[34:22] ANNETTE KARR: Well, I'm just having trouble articulating.

[34:29] JOHN BAKER: Sure.

[34:29] ANNETTE KARR: Yeah. Well, especially. Okay. From prior to coming to Kansas, I was a, I was a Democrat. And I, you know, I really did see the Republicans as the other. And since my time here and working and living with a larger proportion of people, being Republican, it opened my eyes so much. And I, I've just grown again that, you know, we're talking about growth, we're talking about expanding one's perception and respecting. I offer much more respect.

[35:21] JOHN BAKER: Sure. I think from my standpoint, I was always kind of like not wanting to just give things to people. And when you start to think about it, kind of like you said, it's not a handout, it's a hand up. And I believe in the hand up because there are some people that really do need assistance, whether it's getting them healthcare or whether it's getting through a hard time and having unemployment or having assistance for people. I believe in that. I don't believe in handouts, but my views on helping people have changed. Like you mentioned, the affordable health care. I mean, all the Republicans and all the conservatives always bagged on calling it Obamacare and this and that. I think the healthcare system's messed up big time and everybody's to blame in it. But I've probably changed more on helping people in understanding why we help people, not just handing things to people. Are you willing to describe your spiritual beliefs?

[36:39] ANNETTE KARR: I grew up Catholic and there's a part of me, once Catholic, there's a part of that just stays with you. But I am more affiliated with right now. I'm affiliated with a congregational church. But I truly believe in the teachings of Jesus and particularly whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers. That's been a big part of my life. And that's, like I said, working with the steps program. And I'm not as defined as I am as I was spiritually when I was a Catholic. But my trust in God and my love for God is a major part.

[37:42] JOHN BAKER: Of my life for me too. I was actually brought up Catholic, also went to catholic school, like kindergarten through second or third grade. And then my mom and dad were both brought up Catholic and they believed in God and going to church. But we kind of as a family, got away from going to church all the time, but still stayed spiritual. My wife, our ex wife, her family was very catholic. So when we got married, we started attending church again. Or I did. She'd always gone to church and I liked going. I kind of went through the motions of just going, but I did go. And then our children were all brought up Catholic and went to catholic schools, grade school and colleges. I mean grade school and high school. After I got divorced, I was with a friend and she asked me to go to New Spring church with her, which is a church here in Wichita that has about 5000 people attend each weekend. It's non dinomination. It's a christian church. The preacher actually was, Mark Hoover was a Baptist and he spun off from the baptist church and has this church and I've been going there for eleven years. And it's really, it's changed my thoughts on whether it's. I try to stay away from the religion part of my spirituality. But when I've gone back and I go back to the Catholic Church two or three times a year or go to a funeral wedding, I feel that I get more out of the catholic church since I've left and went to a different church because I was just so into the routine. But I have nothing against the catholic church, it's just not what I choose to practice. So I think. And the other thing is, as I get older, I become more spiritual. And I don't know, you know, if that's just getting you to be at peace with God and the people and things, so. But it's important to me.

[39:57] ANNETTE KARR: Yeah. When in your life did your beliefs shift the most?

[40:08] JOHN BAKER: Probably the spiritual portion that I just explained. I remember coming out of new spring, oh, probably eight years ago, the pastor just, his messages really connect with me. And I sit on edge listening to him and things, and I remember leaving the parking lot, and for some reason I just started crying, and I was like, wow, I just feel so much spiritual now and have God in me more so than I ever have. So that was probably the biggest turning point. How about yourself?

[40:43] ANNETTE KARR: Well, you know, it's interesting, the experience with Catholicism. And like I said, there's a part of me, there's a really wonderful spiritual part of Catholicism, but then there's that rules and regulations and constriction. In fact, when I was younger, and I was a good. I was a good Catholic, and I wanted to go to the Vatican. Well, when I finally did go to the Vatican, which was. I was in my fifties, actually, I was. It really saddened me because I felt more. I just. There was a wall around the Vatican, and I'm going, is that wall. Is that for. To keep them in or out? You know, I mean, that was a. My perception, you know, and I. No, I've lost my train of thought.

[41:44] JOHN BAKER: That's okay.

[41:45] ANNETTE KARR: But, you know, there is that real loving, wonderful. I mean, there's an incredible spiritual part of the Catholicism. But I needed something more. I needed to. My wings needed to expand, and it was. The ground rules of Catholicism was just constricting me. And I still have a rosary, and I periodically do go to a catholic church. And it was interesting the first time when I go, like when I go to Cleveland and go, I shouldn't, but I do go to communion. I know I'm not supposed to because I haven't been to confession and all of that, but the first time I went to communion, after kind of allowing myself to expand, I felt communion. It wasn't this real secluded experience. You know, got the host, and it was. I felt a communion with everybody in the church. And I thought, that's what it's all about. I was. Yeah, that. Let's see, do we have any more.

[43:18] JOHN BAKER: What does being a Kansan mean to you?

[43:20] ANNETTE KARR: Being the.

[43:21] JOHN BAKER: What? A Kansan.

[43:22] ANNETTE KARR: Being a Kansan. Kansan. I feel rooted here, and I feel a sense of connecting with the earth. I mean, growing up, you know, growing up in Detroit, I mean, in an urban area, it's concrete. And to be in Kansas, I'm just so much more connected to the earth, to a wheat field. To me, there's nothing more beautiful than a wheat field. And that has allowed for me to, in all different aspects of my life, more grounded, more peaceful, more expansive. And how about you?

[44:18] JOHN BAKER: You know, I was born. I wasn't born here. I still think of myself being a Kansan. I like Kansas. It's a nice place to be. But I like big cities. Excuse me? I like big cities, buildings, fast paced life. I like mountains. I like oceans. I like the beauty of other places. I'm proud to be a Kansan, I guess, and I don't want to leave. And I think it's a good place to live. And everyone says, oh, it's a great place to raise a family. It is. But I'm always glad to be able to get out and experience other things. And when I come home, I'm happy to be back here.

[45:11] ANNETTE KARR: What are your hopes for the future?

[45:18] JOHN BAKER: Peace on earth, I guess. I mean, you always say that. I don't know. I feel like we're going in, the whole world is going in a direction that I don't think is in best interest for everybody. I wish things would slow down a little bit. Everybody's always, it's like your phone. Everything has to be done right now. I would just hope that people could come together and get along better. You know, we have the war going on in Ukraine right now, which at first, when it was going on, the wars have really. Now they've bothered me. I don't like them. But it just. It gave me a terrible feeling of these poor, innocent people being bombarded by an individual who has no reason for doing it. I just wish that people would get along the direction against the police and things. That drives me nuts because I'm part of the Wichita crime commission, and it really. People don't want to become police officers anymore because they're not respected. And I wish people would just not always point out the bad news and things and all these shootings and all this hatred. I wish we could somehow find a way, and not such in a political way, but just as a humanity is, to bring people together and quit fighting and doing mean things and stuff. So I think I just like to see things slow down. How about yourself?

[46:54] ANNETTE KARR: Well, peace has been a theme throughout my life, too. In fact, John Huber, who is here at KMuw. Back in 2007, he and I went to Washington, DC, and we lobbied for a department of peace and nonviolence, a cabinet level department of peace and nonviolence. And I wish that. Well, and they're still working. There is still a bill for that, and that being one element of incorporating that into our government. But also, I think there is so much more wonderful, loving experiences out there. But the, the brutality that seems to make the headlines, and that seems to be the thing that people, you know, they, they're aware of. But there is, I mean, just, just what we're doing today. I mean, this is what this, that's what this is about.

[48:01] JOHN BAKER: Right.

[48:01] ANNETTE KARR: And I, that's why I'm so thrilled that, you know, that we can participate in this. But I, I believe, I just believe in humankind.