Ariana Jones and Mufungwa Kananda

[00:09] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: My name is Mufungwa Karl Kananda. I am 31 years old. Today is Saturday, August 6, 2022. We are in StoryCorps, Atlanta. I am interviewing Ariana Jones, who is my lovely life partner.

[00:31] ARIANA JONES: My name is Ariana Jones. I am 28 years old. Today is Saturday, August 6, 2022. We are at StoryCorps, Atlanta. My interview partner's name is Mufungwa Karl Kananda, and he is the love of my life.

[00:59] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So here we are. I think it's very interesting how us being here right now. I don't know if this. If this allows you to feel more present or maybe a dozen, because this may feel, like, surreal or fake, but it's consistent, right? Because I know you definitely. I think that with, you know, just your life experience, you know, just having, you know, having always identified with the person who, you know, always had to do what needed to be done to make sure that your sisters didn't go through what you had to go through. And then I transitioning into, like, actually being forced into, like, you know, to be an adult when you weren't kind of ready to. And it's led you to have this interesting perspective of reality.

[02:00] ARIANA JONES: Very interesting.

[02:02] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Are you feeling real at this moment? Do you feel, like the consistency I was having done this, you know, like, three years ago and then being here again, how did you feel?

[02:15] ARIANA JONES: I don't feel real right now. I don't feel. I mean, I'm still, like, a little disconnected from the reality of being here, but I've kind of been that way all day. But being here, knowing that we were here on opposite ends of the table, I sat over there last time, actually, is interesting because my memory doesn't allow me to remember that time we were here, like, what we talked about and how that was and how that felt. So, although we've done it, it feels new. So I'm trying to be in my body as much as possible, but I guess I'm just most excited about cementing a conversation with you. Knowing that that's getting done is very helpful for me. This is just yet another method of, like, being able to document something of my life. So that feels really good and really real.

[03:09] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yes, you are. You are an historian, a documentarian. Not by level of education, definitely just something that you do very good at that you're very good at. Thank you. I think that I've always remembered you always, you know, recording, you know, you know, things that you experienced or that you participated in, you know, so much so that, like, you know, I knew that. That, you know, at the time, I just knew that that was, like, a life pleasure that you took, that you had, you know? So I actually didn't think of this as being part of who you are, like, you know, in the beginning, even up until now. Like, I just.

[03:57] ARIANA JONES: Oh, really?

[03:58] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. I just now thought about this interview or this conversation as, like, an extension of what you already do so frequently, which is, you know, just capture moments, genuine moment with, like, the people that you love.

[04:16] ARIANA JONES: Yeah.

[04:17] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: And you know what, baby?

[04:21] ARIANA JONES: Yeah.

[04:23] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: This is also. I just realized something that. So you don't really record. Do voice recording, and then the only ones that you do has been, like, trauma.

[04:40] ARIANA JONES: Very traumatic. Yeah.

[04:42] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Wow.

[04:43] ARIANA JONES: Yeah. I don't process my inner dialogue or anything through voice recording. It's all through, like, visual capture, and it's usually of what's happening and not really of my inner thoughts. I used to do a lot of that with writing, but then I stopped writing as much. So, yeah, this is like a voice version of documenting something, you know, positive. And that feels good.

[05:14] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Okay. I do. And this is. I want to know, last time that we were here. Last time we were here, I'm looking at you right now in a room where I'm almost, like, almost have to look at you to feel grounded. Lights are dimmed, and it's like I feel like I'm in the back alley somewhere. So I'm looking at you and, like, you look very different than what you look like last time.

[05:53] ARIANA JONES: We had this energy that's interesting.

[05:56] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Like, not just, like, how you physically appear to me, but also, like, you know, like, how you are exuding yourself. Like, your essence is so different. So different.

[06:09] ARIANA JONES: Yeah.

[06:09] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Are you, like, what are you seeing when you're looking at me now, knowing.

[06:14] ARIANA JONES: That bibi, like, nothing's the same.

[06:16] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Okay.

[06:17] ARIANA JONES: You know, I think we. One thing about, like, you and I, like, on our journey together, we've just gone through a bunch, in my opinion, a bunch of rapid. I don't know if I can curse, but that feels very organic. Rapid ass transitions very quickly, but, like, so many different ones. And I think when we first came here. Cause when I asked you, I'm like, okay, when were we here last? You said 2018. 2019. When I go back to that timeframe, that was such an interesting part of time for us. We were reconnecting with each other at that point. We were. We had both gone through, you know, you had gone through a metamorphosis of your own and a coming to of your own individually. And I was. I don't know where the fuck where I was at that point, really, mentally, that whole space of time is hazy.

[07:16] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah.

[07:17] ARIANA JONES: And I think I showed up here in the best that I could, but I definitely know that I was not the me that I am currently when we came here. And I actually just, like, when you said that, I even remembered, like, what I looked like, how my hair was, you know, what my eyes said because we took a picture. Do you remember that?

[07:33] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: I had a gray shirt. Yeah, I remember I had a great collar shirt.

[07:36] ARIANA JONES: Mm hmm. You had a great collar shirt.

[07:38] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: This was before I had locks.

[07:39] ARIANA JONES: We didn't have locks. We both have locks now. I had short, you know, I had a short fro when we came, so I feel. I feel as different as you see me.

[07:49] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, it's so, you know, I think even, like, you know, knowing that, you know, I think that the bulk of our conversation last time we're here, we're just surrounding her was around. Around your sisters. Right? Around, like, just how, like, you know, at the time, we, like, everything that defined you was defined through, like, sisterhood. Right. And here we are now where, like, that's actually something that, like, has been.

[08:18] ARIANA JONES: Stripped from you, has been completely obliterated.

[08:21] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Right. And I think even for you to conceptualize, I mean, you know, like, last time we were here, I think we were talking about, like, you know, like, the fact that we had literally just gone through court and then lost, but won because we didn't have get to remove Anaya from, like, the environment that she was into, but yet we were given, like, access to it, and we felt like that was a way felt.

[08:47] ARIANA JONES: Like that was a way that court.

[08:49] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Order for you to have, like, you know, for you to have visitation with Anaya was okay, at least we got something. At least we got something. All wasn't lost, but now, like, we don't even have that. Yeah, but also, like, for you, like, even, like, identifying as, like, a sister first, someone who went through that, and I'm a sister first, and that's the only thing that matters. It's so, like, how has. How has, like, has that contributed to, like, you know, like, you not feeling, like, so grounded to, like, your life experience or your earthly experience?

[09:28] ARIANA JONES: Yeah, for sure.

[09:30] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Well, maybe. How has that contributed to that? Because I know it has.

[09:34] ARIANA JONES: Yeah. So I think, for me, the biggest thing, I think Aniyah, who is my sister, my biological sister, who grew up in the same abusive home that I did, who you and I went on pursuit to get custody of her and take her away from that environment, and, you know, every system failed us, and so we. We. And I no longer have access to her. After five years of trying to do all of that and having some access to her versus none, and now being at a point where there's just none, Aniya was actually my last connection point to that life, to the previous life that I was living. You know, there was no other family member that I was in contact with. There was no, you know, nobody that I could bounce that lived experience with in the home, I mean, other than you and when you were there witnessing it. But, I mean, just like a sister to bounce that off of where we both had shared parents in that way. So she was the last piece that connected me to that era. And so now that she is not, you know, I don't. I want to. Every time I talk about night, it's so hard because I want to select my words carefully. I don't want to use words like gone and not a part of my life that feels very permanent to be throwing out into the universe. So I don't know what the proper way to say is that she's not currently part of my lived experience right now. So that took a big. That was a big blow. And that blow came semi recently, honestly. I mean, the last communication we got that said, hey, like, nope, you can't see her. Your visitation is done. You know, you no longer have access to her, blah, blah, blah. That was August of 2021, so we're only in August of 2022. I got that call on August 5. Oh, my God. I'm just realizing that it's August 6.

[11:55] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Okay.

[11:56] ARIANA JONES: Whoa.

[11:56] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: It is.

[11:58] ARIANA JONES: Whoa. I got that call a year ago today that I would no longer be able to see my sister, and I was by myself, and. Yeah. And I've. And ever since then, I've been trying to figure out what that means to live a very different way than what I thought that I was going to be living. So that heavily contributes to me not feeling very real and grounded, and that shit knocked me off my feet when that happened. Like, completely swept me up and put me somewhere that, like, I'm not even sure where I went still, probably. But I think since then, like, my journey has been in trying to ground myself, even though that happened. And I think you have been just an amazing, amazing, like, otherworldly support in assisting with me becoming grounded in something else, something healthy, something that's actually me, something that is probably where I should have been planted in the first place, but trauma had me elsewhere, so, yeah, how do you. I guess from that time last year, like, do you see anything? What do you notice different about me, I guess, since that time? Because I try to think about myself, but I know that the only other person that sees me more the same, if not more, than I see myself as you.

[13:38] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, I was actually thinking about that, you know, just now. So I am actually, you know, because, like, there was a divorcing process from, you know, like, who you were before and who you are, who you are now. And I realized that, like, I am the. I'm the. I'm almost, like, the only remnants of the divorce. Like, I am, like, I'm the only thing that's currently tying you to your old self or that past life. And I think that when I think about speaking of grounding, of being grounded, so I think that I actually used to think that you were grounded in being a sister. I actually think that, you know, I thought that there was a lot of work that went into preparing you for just, like, being a sister mom, you know, like, taking care of your sister. I think that, you know, I always tell the story of, like, when we met, you know, you didn't tell me about, you know. You know, I think, you know, I think any conversation we had outside of, like, who we were for you was about your sisters, you know? And I remember you telling me that, you know, like, you were so focused on making sure that your sisters didn't have the same experience that you did. And I just thought that was so, you know, like, that was so noble. Noble and honorable. I was just like, wow, that's so valiant. Like, that's crazy. You know, I was like. And I remember you expressing my. I was like, for me, it's just moving back home. Like, I want to be able to move back to the Congo, you know, and then just, like, you know, like, just be with my people and help my people. So I think for me, it's very interesting seeing just, like, at least how I thought that you were a lot more grounded than you were and then realizing that you didn't know what you were doing.

[15:37] ARIANA JONES: I was just doing it.

[15:38] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: You were just doing it, and you were just doing it because, like, you loved your sisters and there was no other option. Yeah. So then I think that it was.

[15:46] ARIANA JONES: A big part of who I was, and I thought that it grounded me. But I think we both realized that, like, that wasn't real.

[15:53] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So then. And I think, interesting. Like, as you transition and then now that I'm gonna call it a divorce, where you divorce, and then, you know, at first, like, you don't really want a divorce, right? You wanna work things out, you know, like, literally, this is doing a divorce. Then you get to the point in the divorce where, like, it's over.

[16:11] ARIANA JONES: You have to move on. You have to move on.

[16:13] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So for me, like, you know, to me, that, like, that was tough, because I watch you, you know, like, just, like, let go, you know, like, who I, who I knew you to be. And then I watch you just, like, go in this interface of, like, figuring it out and, like, what's next, right? You didn't, you had law school aspirations because you wanted to go into family law, and then all of a sudden, you didn't. Not only did you not have law school aspiration, but, like, anything related to law was just, like, repulsive. Repulsive. It was, like, triggering.

[16:59] ARIANA JONES: Extremely triggering.

[17:00] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: And then, you know, so, like, here I am. I'm like, oh, well, like, you know, because I did find your law school aspiration. I was like, man, she has big dreams. Yeah, she want to go to law school, you know, because that's everything that.

[17:12] ARIANA JONES: You knew to love about me was kind of no longer.

[17:16] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. So then, and then here I am in a partnership, in a union with someone who I love. But I'm having to figure out, like, honestly, as I'm having to figure it out as you're figuring it out, you know, like, I'm all. I'm picking it up as you're picking it up. Right. And as someone who's always, you know, like, I've always tried to be intentional about, like, you know, being present and being there for you. It was rough. It was tough, because I. I was as lost, like, however lost you think you were, I was, like, even more lost than where you were. Right. And. And then because, you know, because these things that were once, you know, like, that once defined your existence now were literally, like, the triggers of, like, that reminded you of this really, really traumatic divorce that you went through. So I honestly, like, don't know, even till this day, and I'm not 100% know how to navigate that. And I think that that's why, you know, like, I do what I do best and what I've done best, which is just rely, rely on what in you that I know that hasn't wavered. Right. Which, again, is, like, despite the fact that it looks different, it's still the essence of who you are. Right. I still love your appreciation for, like, being part of just authentic black joyous. That literally has always been something that you had always, like, sought after your openness to understand, you know, like, authentic cultures being a part of that, capturing it, like, it's really just, like, beautiful. And I think that even now, seeing how you are actually, like, finding fulfillment across different sectors of your life in doing this right is really, like, what I end up falling back on and say, okay, that's the re that I know.

[19:35] ARIANA JONES: So do you find yourself having to actively figure out how to love this new me, whatever that looks like to you?

[19:44] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So it's not a matter of love. I wouldn't say it's love, I think.

[19:47] ARIANA JONES: That exists with what is it?

[19:50] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So I think it's just, like, you know, understanding. You know, I've been. I've gone through many transitions, but I think that finding ways to understand the transitions that you're going through and also, like, understand how it affects me. Yes. That's something that I do actively. I mean, it's. I think everyone does, but I think that I'm very intentional about, like, doing.

[20:25] ARIANA JONES: Yeah.

[20:26] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. So, like, I always want to make sure that, like, you know, because if. Because then, you know, if I don't. If I don't do it, I feel like, you know, like, you know, because there was a point. I feel like I'm a. I do feel, like, disconnected from you.

[20:41] ARIANA JONES: You do feel like.

[20:42] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yes. Yes.

[20:43] ARIANA JONES: You currently do.

[20:44] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: No, if I don't do. If I'm not intentional about, like, understanding, you know, your, you know, your transition from, you know, like, sister, sister Ari into, you know, this, like, just being Ari and then finding, you know, like, pleasure and, like, just seeking experiences that bring you joy, whatever that may be, whatever that is. If I don't do. If I'm not intentional about it, there is a disconnection. But I think that that speaks also to who I think that I am and who I know that I am, which is always being intentional about being myself and being around the people that I cherish and love. Right. But if I don't, it's like. And I've noticed that, like, I am more aware of that than you are.

[21:34] ARIANA JONES: I.

[21:35] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Right. Like, I am more, you know, like. Or I don't know, maybe I'm more open to engaging you on that, you know, as they happen.

[21:44] ARIANA JONES: That's very interesting to hear. I'm not even sure how to, like, process that in real time for the purpose of this conversation, especially when I think you talked about two buckets, the sisterhood and the law school thing, which were obviously these two really huge, humongous buckets for you in relation to, like, what made up me, but the sisterhood piece of it like, I'm not. That's not part of my identity by choice. You know, that everything that happened with that is completely circumstantial and out of my hands. So that's interesting to hear. And not only that, I think for me, like, what that was was a love for family. Right? Like, ultimately, right. And what I still have is a love for family, which is the family that I create and cultivate and consider myself to be a part of now. That is not blood family. So I'm still, to me in that way, very much still, like, at the core of, like, what I was then, which is, you know, I take relationships seriously. Family relationships seriously. I love being connected to. To family. I still consider myself very family oriented, even though I don't have relationships with those sisters right now. And then the law school thing is also interesting, too, because it wasn't just the trauma with my specific personal case. It's actually my lived work experience, and realizing that it just doesn't align with who I actually am, which it never did in the first place, because it actually came out of the idea to even pursue that didn't come from an assessment of my skills and abilities and, you know, passions and desires and what actually makes sense for me, it came from, again, this trauma born place. So it's interesting to hear you say that you have to figure out how to connect to me now that those pieces are, quote unquote, gone when I don't. I think one of them transitioned, and I think the other one just. It finally clicked that this doesn't make sense for multiple reasons. So it's interesting to hear you say that, because I don't know if I mean, but from your perspective, that is how you viewed me. And I do remember, like, people would ask you, oh, what do you. What do you. What do you love so much about Ariana? The first thing you would say is, I love how much she loves her sisters. And I used to kind of get a little not off put by that. I thought it was nice, but I used to wanna. I used to want the answer to that question to be something about me. When someone asked you that, and you usually led with, like, how much I loved my sisters, and I remember asking you one time, I was like, okay, well, like, what about, like, something just specific to me. So I get that was a very big way that you identified me in your head and in your experience with me. So, yeah, I just. I just think that's interesting.

[24:53] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, well, I think that, you know, I think that it's, you know, it was a very. It was a very big way that you presented yourself. It was like a huge part. I mean, it was like. It was part of, like, who you were.

[25:07] ARIANA JONES: Yeah, no, I agree with you.

[25:09] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So I didn't, you know, I didn't create this.

[25:12] ARIANA JONES: I'm not saying that you created that, but I am saying, like, that was a huge part of me. But that was the part that you really latched on to in terms of, like, just maybe there wasn't much else to identify with me beyond that. Maybe that's the thing.

[25:29] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: No, so there were a lot of other things that, you know, obviously, like, I viewed in you then that I appreciated. You know, I think that, you know, you know, there are many, many things over the years that many conversations that we've had, you know, but, like, I think that, you know, your identity through you, like, through sisterhood, was like, the identity that I think, you know, like, I was. You know, I do remember, you know, having this conversation myself, you know, like, after just, you know, like, you know, and it wasn't like, oh, my goodness, the girl with the sisters I like, I want to be with, you know. No, but it definitely was like, oh, this person that I met, and then eventually, as I, you know. Cause, you know, spent more time around you, I was like, man, this person is so down to ensure that, like, her sister didn't go through the same thing that she went through. And she loves her sister in a way that I know that I love my family, that I love my brother, remember? That was like, how much I was like, this is someone who I know has the potential. I'm sorry, not the potential, but, like, the capacity to love the way that I know how to love. So that's the kind of person that I want in my corner. Right. So I think that that's. That was. That was like, you know, that was, you know, kind of like the. That was the narration of, like, who you were. There were. There. There were. And there are many things about you that I. That I love and value. I love. I love how. I love how open you are. I love your ability to, like, open and filter information. Right. Like, that's one of the things that I love. There wasn't a conversation that was, like, too taboo for me to have with you. Right. That was one of the things I love the way that, you know, you have, like, allowed me to transition in our relationship. You know, I love how, like, you viewed me, you know, when we met as, like, this a die hard evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity to you know, seeing me question my belief system and look for structures that align more with what I believe in to the point where I was just, like, actually, this whole thing is a sham. Like, I just don't believe, you know, like, spirit. Believing in God is a sham. And then even through all of this transition, like, I just, like, really love how you are just, like, so open at, like, allowing me. I don't even say allowing me, but, like, I being supportive as I navigated that, like, asking me so many good questions about, like, about, like, my experience and what I was going through. You know, like, I love, I love, I love how much you love black people. I really do. Like, and this is not, like, you know, I'm not repeat, like, I think just, like, and not just, like, black american people. Just, like, black people around the globe. The globe. Like, that is really, really, really key. So, you know, and there's just, there's so many, but definitely, definitely sisterhood was something that defined who you were, not just, like, in, like, you know, and what you were doing, but also, like, define, like, what you wanted from your future selves, right. You wanted to be a person who built things that, like, allow for Anaya and Alexis. Right. To have a better future. Right. In the process, you were gonna, like, go to fucking law school. I didn't know anybody that went to law school, right? So I'm like, man, my girlfriend is going to law school. She's just not going to law school for any other reason, but she's going to law school because, like, she wants to make sure that her sisters, like, she's gonna change the system for her sisters. Like, you know how badass that is? I'm like, that's my girlfriend. You know, I was like, yeah. I said she's cool. I said, she's really cool. She's lovely. But guess what. Guess what? She's going to law school to change the system because she loves her sisters. You know, and then just seeing you now kind of, like, you know, divorced that, and then now, like, going through a transition of, like, where you explore what, what redefining and reclaiming and doing and taking what is yours out of your experience and, and leaving, like, what is not, you know, I don't want to say behind, but in the journey, you know, it's like, it happens, but the me that is moving forward, that is progressing, is this me? Right. That's something that I think that in my own personal journey, as, you know, I continue to do the same thing, too. I have to adjust to. I do. I have to adjust to. And I feel like in the moment that I haven't, I felt disconnected, and I don't like feeling disconnected from you. Right. So that's also part of my adjustment. My adjustment is, is seeing you for what it is that you're going through, seeing you for how you're navigating these spaces, and then just, like, appreciating and loving the you that I know for sure. So that's what I'm doing.

[31:10] ARIANA JONES: Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate you bearing with me as I navigate kind of just who I am outside of what's happened to me. Yeah, I think from the beginning, you just kind of got caught in a. In a weird crossfire of a bunch of, like, very strange sequence of happenings by being with me. And I think part of the reason that you're even here ten years later, sitting across the table from me is just because, like, it's in your nature to be loyal and committed to the people that you consider your people. I think if that was not such a true tenant of your personal character, we might not be across the table from each other. So some of that feels a little, I don't know, one could say circumstantial, and then one can do, say serendipitous type thing. I don't know. So thank you for that. And sticking with me. As I figure it out, it's definitely not been easy and, like, on either of us. And I think you've. You've had to process a lot of trauma that, I mean, you would have had. You would have had gone through different things if you were with someone else. I'm not saying that I brought you the worst tornado that you could have had. You know, you would have gone through different things, but you definitely went through a very particular set of things by being with me, and you're navigating a particular set of things by being with me currently. So I appreciate that. I appreciate your commitment to doing that.

[33:05] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: And I do thank you for appreciating it. Thank you for affirming. Thank you for acknowledging that. But I do want to say that, you know, you weren't the only one that was going through things. You weren't the only one that was kind of, like, going through things as a result of somebody else going through it. You know, I think that as noble as, like, you know, whatever, you know, version of, like, life that I choose to believe in, I think that it also comes with a lot. You know, it really does. You know, I think that, you know, like, my commitment to, like, you know, my reality as, you know, as a boy that was born and raised in the Democratic Republic of the Congo who is now, like, you know, who felt like almost like he was snatched from. From the Congo and then they just moved to the US and then has had to, like, you know, adopt, you know, like, a certain culture and adapt and learn how he's viewed. And then I think that, you know, still holding on to the beliefs, you know, especially given, you know, like, especially given, you know, like, the condition and circumstances that, you know, like, many of my family member people back home that I continue to identify as my people are going through, like, bringing that reality to you, a person who is, like, you know, like, entrenched in sisterhood and trying to figure it out was also, like, a process where you had to get adapted to, like, knowing that, you know, like, you know, this. I remember I used to speak with to you about, like, realities back home, and you couldn't even conceptualize this thing, but you had to accept that, like, I knew what the fuck I was talking about, and then I understood my role in, like, how I was going to try to be impactful. Like, that's, like, that's huge, right? That speaks to just, like, who you are, you know, that speaks to, like, your commitment to ensuring that, you know, like, black voices are heard, your commitment to black unity. Right? So, like, that's not. That's, like, that's honorable, you know? And I think that's also you. That's the you that. That I see every time that I look at you. That's the you that I saw, you know, when we had that conversation in freshman hall, you know, that's, you know, so I am thankful, you know, because there's so much more life ahead of us, experiences ahead of us for the two of us. Even if it only lasted for one more hour. Baby, we experienced so many things. So I just know, like, even if, like. And I mean, whatever we is by that, I mean, even if, like, even if, like, our lives, even if we drove out of here and got, like, hit by a car, knock on wood. I know for a fact that, like, the time that we spent after here or in the car, it's going to have so much life experience, right? So. And I'm 100% trusting that, like, you will continue to, like, be grounded in who you truly are, who you feel like, you know, what makes the most of you, and then continue to carry that with you. And I always tell you this. I think that you're doing a, you know, you're doing a heck of a job as an adult, creating spaces for the young you to feel heard, to feel protected. But, like, I'm always going to ride for Ari and Mufungwa Like, I'm always gonna have to ride for Ari and Mufungwa like, I'm always going to and, like, I'm always gonna ride for, like, the you that's in front of me and the version of you that's in you, you know, which, you know, encompasses all of your past experiences along the journey, you know? And I'm always gonna do be intentional about trying to adapt to it.

[36:53] ARIANA JONES: Yeah, really? That feels good to hear. And I see that from you every day, and I feel that from you. And I've not ever been loved and cared for the way that you love and care for me. I've never been seen as fully as you see me and as you have worked to be able to see me. I think as far as you're concerned, that is one thing I'm always happy to hear you say, is that you feel as if I have loved you through all your different transitions and support you through different transitions of life, and try to understand where you come from and what it is that you desire to do in your future. Because with someone that has had a very scattered upbringing and inconsistency with what the future looks like for me, I have been with you, who has always been very clear about your trajectory and very clear about your future and very clear about who you are and what you want out of this life. And that's been a really interesting thing to navigate for me as well. It's a balance of wanting to support you in all that you do, but not feel like I'm holding you back because I'm not where I need to be, need in quotes. But you don't make me feel like that. And as much as I can, and as much as I can and as much as I'm able, I always want to be supportive and assist you through all the things that I truly believe that you can and will do. And I may not know what my future exactly looks like all printed out.

[38:53] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: But I think that we, as humans, especially at this point, we all not sure what the hell, we're not sure.

[39:01] ARIANA JONES: What the hell is going on, but you have an idea, and I support that idea, and I want you to feel supported in that.

[39:12] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, I just do want to acknowledge the fact that it is.

[39:15] ARIANA JONES: I mean, the world is burning. The world is inflamed.

[39:18] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: It's August 6, 2022, and we are not sure where collectively, our species, humanity.

[39:27] ARIANA JONES: Is going, is going down the drain. That's another thing. I mean, I can't. That's a whole other 40 minutes conversation.

[39:34] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, no, so I think that.

[39:37] ARIANA JONES: But you see, what I'm trying to.

[39:39] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Say, though, I appreciate. I think one of the things that you're doing a lot more of right now is actually, like, supporting being, you know, you're doing a better job at just being, you know. I think that, you know, because you are being. Instead of doing, you know, you always feel like you have to do something.

[39:56] ARIANA JONES: I'm just trying to.

[39:56] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: For something to happen, you know? But then now you realize that. No, no, no. I think that I just have to be me. I have to be me. I think that in being me and be myself, whoever that is, there will be a clear definition of, like, what needs to be done. And I think that, you know, even if once I'm me, I can, you know, like, do my part, and then once I meet, I can be part of, you know, collective actions or collective groups that, you know, somebody will also do, like, the part that needs to be done.

[40:25] ARIANA JONES: That's what I'm trying to trust. And I tell you what. I think that's gonna look a hell of a lot better than being a miserable ass lawyer. Every lawyer I know is fucking miserable. And they hate their jobs. They hate their clients. I work for them. They hate everything. And I tell. That would not have been a great guess what, though. What?

[40:45] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: They got money, though.

[40:46] ARIANA JONES: I don't care. I'm gonna find a way to make more money, and I don't have to be a miserable lawyer to do that.

[40:54] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Well, that's you.

[40:55] ARIANA JONES: I think you're gonna get a much happier, fuller version of me, and I'm gonna get a much happier, fuller version of myself by having said no to that lawyership. That doesn't serve me. So. Although I'm sad that it made you feel disconnected from me because you heavily identify with that part of me, I am so comfortable and confident with the decision I made to not pursue that.

[41:15] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: So am I. And, yes, I cherish these moments. I cherish this time. I cherish this conversation, these conversations. And I just. I'm open to seeing where this togetherness takes us.

[41:37] ARIANA JONES: What do I always tell you? I wanna do everything and go everywhere with you.

[41:40] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: You do. You do. You do.

[41:46] ARIANA JONES: But sometimes your response to that isn't, like, what I need it to be.

[41:49] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Because, you know, I take that very literal.

[41:52] ARIANA JONES: You're so freaking literal.

[41:53] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. Like, I'm like. I'm like, I really like every moment I spent with you, Ari, I cherish it. I was like, but when I'm on a computer, like, working, like, I wanna be by myself. But you're like, you don't want me, but that's funny.

[42:11] ARIANA JONES: I just think you're too serious, bro.

[42:14] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: But then you also think that I'm not serious.

[42:16] ARIANA JONES: Yeah, you're weird. Like, you're unserious and serious at the same time.

[42:20] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: I think that you're the same. I do. I think that you're the same.

[42:27] ARIANA JONES: Well, I love you very much. Carl Kananda Mufungwa. Karl Kananda. I love you with all of my heart and I thank you so much for being on this journey of life with me. Not only would I not have survived my first part, but there's just. I have no interest in continuing more of life without you.

[42:44] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: I love you eternally, Ariana Jones. And I am so, so happy that you are part of the justification of existence for me. You are part of what make this world worth it just for me and others who occupy. And I thank you immensely for continuously suggesting that we do things like this.

[43:19] ARIANA JONES: I love you and I'm so proud of you.

[43:22] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Thank you so much. And, you know, we can probably do what we do all the time, which is continue to have this conversation and just basking it and allow, you know, just like our thoughts, you know, be retrospective, be reflective and all of that. Like that. That's actually, man, I really appreciate that about you.

[43:45] ARIANA JONES: That's all we do is talk.

[43:46] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah.

[43:47] ARIANA JONES: Maybe I have talked more to you than I've talked to anything, including myself. It's a lot of talking.

[43:53] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. Sometimes I feel like you're just, like, listening to me, too.

[43:58] ARIANA JONES: I'm absorbing it.

[43:59] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Okay.

[44:00] ARIANA JONES: I'm absorbing the times where it's not coming through, I think, I tell you. Yeah, yeah. But it's rare. I always want to listen to you.

[44:09] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah. And then it's really funny because sometimes even, like, when I engage in. When I engage you and I try to break down things for you that I'm so passionate about, and I see your intention is to really be in there and understand and relate, but it's not working. But it's not working.

[44:26] ARIANA JONES: Like, the principles are just above my paperwork.

[44:29] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Well, not even that. I think that it's just like, the experience is just so foreign to you at times.

[44:32] ARIANA JONES: Yeah.

[44:33] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: You know, like when I talk to you about my experiences and when I talk to you about, you know, like, diplomacy. When I talk to you about.

[44:39] ARIANA JONES: Oh, diplomacy sends me.

[44:41] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, yeah, I'm unable. Yeah, yeah. But I do. I appreciate it so much because you sit there and you listen and you listen and you do that with me.

[45:01] ARIANA JONES: And with everyone, I will listen to you forever.

[45:04] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Not with everyone, but definitely, no, not everyone.

[45:07] ARIANA JONES: I don't want to hear from people. Not most people.

[45:10] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, I know.

[45:11] ARIANA JONES: I need to hear from, like, credible sound or funny people or just people.

[45:15] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Who are at least like, you know, like are intentional about, like, about reflecting who they are.

[45:22] ARIANA JONES: Yeah. Genuine people. Yes, of course.

[45:24] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: And they are about people hearing what. What it is that.

[45:26] ARIANA JONES: Yes, yes.

[45:28] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Because there are so many people who would, like, talk to you about their experiences, but heaven internalize it themselves. Like, I don't want to hear your experience, you know, if you haven't internalized it. Because all of a sudden, because I was gonna do. I'm gonna take it and run with it and then, like, you're nothing. So then I'm going to carry. I'm going to carry it for you. Which is unfair.

[45:49] ARIANA JONES: I think the conversations with humans that are focused on healing, not fully healed. Cause none of us are, but just that are just cognizant and aware of their journey and where they are and can contribute to conversation that's meaningful. That's what I want to listen to.

[46:06] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Thank you for waking up with me, both like, literally and figuratively.

[46:12] ARIANA JONES: Yeah, for sure.

[46:13] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: Yeah, for waking up with me. Thank you for that.

[46:16] ARIANA JONES: Love you.

[46:18] MUFUNGWA KARL KANANDA: I love you too, Ariana