Tony Lee and Nicole Shepard

Recorded April 27, 2012 Archived April 27, 2012 40:29 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: atd000616

Description

Co-workers Jamal Lee, 24, and Nicole Shepard, 30, talk about their early backgrounds, what go them into education, and the passions that fuel their lives.

Subject Log / Time Code

Nicole begins by talking about where she was born and where she grew up
Jamal talks about where he grew up
Jamal talks about the family member who influence him
Nicole talks about what influenced her when she was a young girl
Jamal talks about the legacy he will leave behind
Nicole talks about what inspired her to become an educator
Jamal talks about why he got into education
Nicole talks about what she's learned as a result of being and eduator

Participants

  • Tony Lee
  • Nicole Shepard

Recording Locations

Georgia State University--College of Education

Venue / Recording Kit

Keywords


Transcript

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00:04 I am Jamal Lee. I am currently 24 years old today is April 27th. 2012 a location is Atlanta in my relationship to my partner is she is my coworker.

00:22 My name is Nicole Shepherd. I am 30 years olds. Today's date is April 27th, 2012. We are located in Atlanta and my relationship to my partner is we are coworkers.

00:40 All right, Nicole. Where did you grow up? Where did I grow up? I was actually born in the Bronx New York and Albert Einstein Hospital. I went from I moved from there to the Poconos which is the northeastern region of Pennsylvania. A lot of mountains. A lot of trees No Buses. No trains. No sidewalks, but it's probably the most beautiful state.

01:12 To me

01:16 Okay, where did you grab them all?

01:19 I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. I happen to be.

01:26 1

01:28 One of the only people that I know of in Atlanta that has both of my parents are from Atlanta and my grandparents are from in that on both sides. And so we have three generations of native atlantans. I was born in the Grady hospital. I was raised in Carver home projects and that is one of the proudest things that I have. I love where I'm from.

01:59 Nicole

02:01 Who?

02:03 We're your favorite relatives growing up.

02:07 My favorite relatives, that's a good question because I am not too close with either side of my family, but I would say maybe the most influential relatives in my family is probably my grandmother. She passed away when I was 11, but she is someone who just really model to me. What a woman is supposed to be like with a Godly woman is supposed to be like she was like the as my cousins will call her she was like big mama to me. She's Grandma, but she was that person who you know, you know cousin was stay at the house or whenever we had a big holiday. Everyone would gather her house. She lives the most of her life in Harlem, New York, which is where my fathers my father and his siblings are from

03:02 And she was someone who cared deeply for people she

03:10 Though she lived in the projects. It was like she walks around like she had no fear. There was a lot of respect for her and the community she ran a pretty much at a soup kitchen and she was really active in. I remember her Senior Citizens Center. She travels as a missionary. She really loved people she loved guys who love people and that was my first model of that and she really impacted my life, even though it's several years later. That was probably the most influential family member.

03:44 How about yourself?

03:50 Well, it's

03:54 Everyone in my immediate family is just my mother and my father and my brother there the three closest people to me, but outside of those three where my grandmother and grandfather who I actually when I was born we were living with them and so they were always like my second parents and whenever my parents my parents were young. My father was 20, my mother was 24 and so they work around the clock when my brother and I were was younger and we were always at my grandparents house. Even when we moved out it was like nothing transitioned and so all of our friends were always stationed wherever my grandparents live which was Carver homes, which I mentioned earlier which is why that's such a Homestay for me because that symbolizes the time that I spent with them and it was

04:54 Like the Arc of my childhood is the highlight and it's kind of like after my grandparents died. Everything changed. I don't know if felt like I had to grow up with something. But yeah, that was five people.

05:11 I feel like that's something that a lot of families would say that somehow one that grandmother who was really solid in the family passes it kind of real or disorient the family structure lot of people have that story is my mother's mother my maternal grandmother and

05:39 She's the youngest of her five siblings and

05:44 The closest sibling to her was 10 years and her older sibling was 16 years older than her so is like a generational gap between her and her siblings. So she kind of grew up as an only child. So when my grandmother passed it was already a distance between her and her siblings, but it was a group.

06:07 And it didn't start to come back until she started to lose siblings and then they were forced to come together because they realize that they were all each other had.

06:17 But I

06:19 What inspired you when you were young?

06:25 What inspired me I would say probably a combination of the things that my father introduced me to and being outside nature. Definitely had a childhood where I can go and ride my bike when I came home from school or build build a clubhouse in the trees those things that you that you would see on TV. Those are I had a free I said active childhood and with my father being an engineer. I was introduced to things that some people might not see until high school or college. So seeing that at a young age. I was always curious. I always wanted to know how things worked and I would say my father challenged me that way we have projects we have papers to write. How does the microwave work as an elementary school student write a paper on that or

07:21 Go to the grocery store ad up the bill before we get to the register. So what it did was I became I started to learn how numbers worked but then I became I started to dream and take those principles and say, you know, I can I can invent something. So I remember being inspired to keep a invention Journal that none of those two came to life yet. I've seen some of them on commercials because I didn't I didn't actually go through with my two page business. I would say being exposed to things and being outside always keeps me thinking creatively.

08:06 How about you?

08:08 It would have to be my mother and my father and the fact that growing up in the neighborhood that I grew up having a father was rare. My father made it his business to be there for my brother and I because he really didn't have a strong relationship with his father. And so he vowed to do the extreme opposite and just his presence made.

08:36 Grand impact on our Direction and so our expectations were very much different from my friends in that home. They always stressed making good grades. And I remember when I was growing up we used to drive past the AUC all the time and

08:55 It was kind of in our conversation and I was in elementary school that I knew that when you started elementary school and you finish your records got transferred to middle school and then from middle school your records got transferred to high school. So I thought that the same thing happen from high school to college as an elementary school student. So I just knew I was going to Morehouse on Morris Brown because I knew my records we're going to transfer over there, but that speaks to the fact that my parents no matter.

09:29 It didn't matter that they didn't go to college. They spoke to us as of college was a guarantee. It wasn't an option. It was always spoken of in so after high school is college and I don't believe that a lot of my friends were exposed to that. And so that exposure even though they were young even though we were from our neighborhood and certain expectations are not

09:53 Expected of us. They made us realize that we had the potential to do things that were I guess you can say out of the ordinary but shouldn't be

10:05 I would have to agree with that. I never thought that I wasn't going to go to college. That was it just seemed like that was the natural course of life. My father's his parents grandmother. I believe she had a third grade education grandfather eighth grade education. I believe all of my aunts and uncles on my father's side or high school graduate my father. He did graduate college, but I definitely got to see that education was very Paramount Paramount. That was something I would say probably was my dad's a way of getting out of where he was in education was a tool for him to to have a better life and now I'm me and my sister and my other siblings

10:55 We are able to be raised with just a totally different mindset. Then I say the generations before me and that was that we could do whatever we wanted to do a lot of people.

11:08 A lot of my first cousins they didn't

11:14 They didn't finish High School.

11:16 And I'm the first male in my family to finish college and my two older cousins they were we were all the first generation. So people born from 86 to 87 of the only people whose graduated college in our family. And so we kind of set the standard for our second cousins in the people who came after us so they can see that it can't be done in our family because for a moment it was is like high school was an accomplishment because a lot of people a lot of my cousins didn't even do that. And so

11:52 Is just a lot of feels like a lot of responsibility on my brother and I to just make sure that we represent something for the rest of our family especially as the males in our family because I believe he and I are the only males in the first generation that have not been to prison.

12:17 Yeah of my grandmother's grandchildren. We are the only two males that have not been to prison. So what type of Legacy do you think that you desire to leave? Cuz you've already accomplished a lot. So what is legacy mean to you and what you'll you'll leave behind.

12:35 Well when I think about

12:39 The Legacy I want to leave I think about what I want my children to see when they think about me and I want them to think about a person who was dedicated to service who always cared about other people in the uplift of his community. I never forget where I come from. That's why I always stress where I'm from. I never forget where I'm coming from and I want to live as close as possible to where I was raised so that I will always be connected to the community no matter how far are how many great things I do.

13:20 I want to give back to my community to show that we can produce greatness. No matter what the expectations of us. Are we are capable of doing whatever we set our minds to and I environment don't limit us to where we can go and we can change our environment by raising our awareness and raising awareness of the people of our neighbors and our peers. So that's the person that I want to be. I want to be that influence from my neighborhood that goes back to the neighborhood to try to make it not be

13:58 The place that you don't want to go at night.

14:03 I want to make it something different to redefine where we come from. And I also have a great passion for for Africa. That is my ancestry. I am in African-American male and I understand the history of how we got over here. And so I have a great connection to Africa. And so I want to build that connection or I have a desire to have people.

14:29 In America people in the Caribbean and black people in Africa to understand that we all have the same origin and that we are connected in that by coming together. We can be more powerful to make I influence in the world greater and to kind of handle the situations that we all go through the oppression that we go through to try to ease that by coming together and United have you considered mentoring or do you currently Mentor young males have been mentoring? I'm entering currently and I have been mentoring for a while it was

15:08 In middle school when I first got approached to Mentor other people because for some reason one of my my fourth grade and fifth grade teacher was the same person because my mother made him be because he pushed us he taught us how to write essays in the fourth grade. And so she wanted me to keep that curriculum and that isn't taught in Georgia until the 8th grade. It's almost four years ahead of

15:36 My classmates and who weren't in that class with me. And so when I got to eighth grade, I was riding that such a high level that they wanted me to go to the 6th and 7th graders and even some of the 8th graders into to them on how to write and so I was kind of in a mentor capacity then and so throughout High School. I kind of

15:59 Kind of studied a lot on what I was interested in and it was still it was growing into that connection with Africa that I spoke of earlier. And as I went to college I made sure that I volunteered on any organization that was possible until when I went to DC. I went to Howard University outside of high school and I was mentoring kids in the community who were at the community center somewhere in Southeast DC, which is one of the low income neighborhoods this Challenge and so I was mentoring a young man there and then when I came back to Atlanta was mentoring young men at my church. Just giving them.

16:48 Some of the experiences that I go through in sometimes I feel like I go through obstacles in my life.

16:57 To share those experiences with other people in order to either prevent them from having to go through the same thing or if they've already been through it to be able to relate to that person. And so

17:12 I'll look at it. I'll look at the bright side of my downfalls.

17:16 So I use them to my benefit into the benefit of other people.

17:22 What about you Nicole? How do you Mentor or do you mentor?

17:28 I think that I've been mentoring for a while some of it. I don't think I've chosen it kind of just happened. Maybe someone a student might asked me to but I would say as far back is high school as well. I did pretty well in high school. So how's the is almost like I was the token black female in high school. I was in all the accelerated classes and that brought about his own pressures and itself. I would say I'm going through high school and maybe Identity or what have I but I remember even then being put in a place where academically I was there to be almost like a role model on how to get how to get it done out of studying so forth when I went to college, I would say my mentoring wasn't so much academic than it was emotional is spiritual growth, so I will probably couple mentoring

18:28 Discipleship that took place I would say when I hit College in 2018 Joy it I find even myself. I need to be in a environment where there's people that I'm helping this people who are at my peer level and there's people that are training me to be too mature to grow and I think that there's no real way to grow as a person than to be in community.

18:59 No, I haven't seen it done. Any other way, you can read all the books in the world. But living in isolation you not going to grow strep theory is a myth is no such thing as pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. Everyone had someone to assist them at some point whether they were able to realize it tonight. Somebody helped you. So yeah.

19:27 I don't believe in.

19:31 What inspired you to go into education?

19:37 I would say I think education kind of found me when I was I remember back as far as third grade for me when we use chalk boards and Tide dry erase boards there for me if he avoids this straight colored chalk. I remember just there was something about the teacher being in front of the classroom and getting to bring to life the subject matter. So when I was in third grade my knowledge of Education, I always say my role of Education would be I just wanted to be that person who wrote on the chalkboard. I love writing on the chalkboard and then I would say as I got older and I started tutoring there was something I think there is a

20:25 A joy when someone finally gets a concept that they didn't think that they could get there's one thing you get the easy problems. There's not much of victory in that but when there is a problem that they are discouraged about and where they think they don't have aptitude to do it and then they actually solve the problem and there's that Joy when even I would say we experience that now in our jobs where that students will say, I see I knew I was smart almost like they thought they weren't, you know, there's this thing of when it gets something that they didn't know how to do and that's something that brings me joy. I think when I was at Penn State, I saw it Penn State and I worked at Penn State and I was in programs where we were bringing high school students who are going to be incoming freshman and we would kind of do like a retention or a gap training so we would try to assess where are the where is there Math and Science level?

21:25 Your English level and how does that compare to the other soon? So I'll be coming into Penn State. So what I experienced during that time is that there was a gap in the Gap was large enough for me to know that had they not had someone step in to kind of assimilate them to the Penn State culture that they might only last one semester two semesters. Actually, this is Cystic when I was at Penn State teaching there and working there in other capacities in 2008 and 2009 was that the incoming minority students into engineering that only 50% or less of them actually remained there may that be remained at Penn State or remains in that major to lose. It was our goal to increase those odds. And when I saw the disparities it really it was something that really bothered me not just

22:25 In the thought of these kids are the future but

22:30 I felt like

22:34 Why was I blessed be in a situation where I had all the resources in the world, but then my counterparts people look just like me they didn't have the same access. So that was something that I think was always a burden For Me That Grew From Alice a teaching at Penn State's and now teaching high school at reading high is I feel like I'm very concerned about the children. I'm concerned about their future and I think it's part of my role to provide the best for them.

23:14 So I would say seeing the need inspired me to want to do education and not just short-term. I really believe that this is something for the rest of my life that I'll be either involved in education or were definitely advocate for the children.

23:31 How about you? Mr. Lee? Why are you an education or why are you an educator?

23:38 That was the last word that you said Advocate. That's my word for what I do and what I see myself doing in education. I

23:50 Got into education.

23:53 People kept telling me you need to be a teacher. You need to be a teacher and I did not want to hear that because that is most definitely not what I wanted to do when I was in high school because I saw

24:08 That a lot of the teachers who were at my school.

24:14 Seemed like they were only there for the check and they didn't really have any passion for it actually teaching people and

24:23 And the ones who did teach the ones who did care, it seems like they were either ousted or

24:32 Driven to the point where

24:35 They were beaten down to become like the other ones by all of the policies that were being incorporated into the school system. Every year seems like things were changing and things will get in more.

24:50 They were getting structured in the way that wasn't really targeted toward actual education more of training more of statistics and not really looking at are the students understanding the information that they are receiving or that we expecting to receive and so I didn't want to go near that cuz I didn't want to have to fight that but the more I became the more I read the more I looked into who we were as a people and how we got where we are in this country. It was a fight until fight has been in me. And so I couldn't run away from the fight and a lot of things inspired me. Like I was saying a lot of the things that happened to me in my life. I wanted to share with other people and so I wanted to give it I wanted to give that information to people before it could happen to them. So they could either use it when they approach that situation to avoid it.

25:50 Like

25:51 There's this thing that people do at high school orientation in college orientation. They say you look to the left and look to your right one of these people or a lot of these people may not be there and that was true in high school. I remember the auditorium was filled with people and so it had to be over 2,000 people who entered my freshman class with me and

26:14 400 people graduated and so

26:18 I was always that person who made it through that crop like you were saying you were the person with the resources and so I was always on the honor roll and I had all of my things together, but like I said, I was the first person in my family to go to college and so we didn't know much about financial aid. So when I got accepted to Howard I went up there and my financial aid.

26:42 Was change from the time that I left Atlanta to the time we arrived in DC because when I left Atlanta I had Pell Grant when I got to BC it was no longer on my records in my parents. Didn't know what questions to ask our how to make sure that everything was right. I didn't know I didn't know what was going on. And so I spent

27:07 Orientation at Howard they would ask the same question from look to your left. Look to your right somebody's going to be missing and it was me and I could not believe that I was it still stings. And now I have two associate degrees and a bachelor's from Georgia State and it still stinks because that's cool. But I wanted to go. I just knew I was going to go to Howard and graduate in four or even three years and just be smooth sailing. But like I said those downfalls I spent one semester at Howard is the best semester that I had but I spent one semester at Howard. I was that person who fell through the cracks and it was because of financial issues because I didn't have the resources and we didn't have the knowledge and so I started looking back at high school and I was like What will what will my guidance counselors do

28:07 They didn't tell us anything. We didn't talk about FASFA. They told us about fastweb and it was just no real it was no real canceling no real this is what college is. It's a corporation there about their business. If you are not on the business side of it, I don't care about you as a student. You have to leave until you get your business straight. And so that's one of those lessons that I learned and I had to dust myself off get back on my feet and use that experience to make sure that's what really inspired me to go in education. I have to fill in that gap between the students and what they know about college and just to make them understand that it's serious.

28:57 And is

28:59 Right. Now you may think people on your back because they're just trying to bother you. But the more people are on you. That's the more they care. The more is laissez-faire. They leave you to drop in fall on your face. You may have all the freedoms that you think you want. But when when those hands are gone, you don't have anyone to lean on then you don't have anyone to ask questions and everyone is focused on what they have to do. Everyone is going that direction and so school didn't school didn't stop when I left the semester went on and so that's what inspired me to go into education to make sure that I was able to share my experiences with someone.

29:43 To help them to let them know that okay. I was out of school after my first semester, but I didn't let it stop me. First of all, I was persistent and I made sure that I continued on with my education and just to make sure that that knowledge is flowing.

30:03 So I just am a person that loves to share knowledge with other people and to make sure that history doesn't have to repeat itself.

30:13 I like I definitely like this story this far as everyone. I didn't know it was aspect but I think it speaks a lot to your character. And that was you still continue and you still continue to move forward and I guess my question for you would be for the students and parents.

30:35 I'll say that the students that are products of the public school system it be in Atlanta or the surrounding counties. What would you say to them to encourage them to flourish where they're at. So maybe need and have a good semester at school. Maybe something we actually experienced a student senior who was taken 9th grade classes. There was no way they were going to graduate dishes.

31:02 Is there a there they didn't have enough credits so dropped out going to Job Corps in a whole nother state. So how would you encourage? I'll say that particular how would you encourage him to flourish where he's at? Even though the plans that he had for his life might take just a little bit longer than he expected.

31:25 I would first say that.

31:30 We we can't.

31:33 We can't hold a clock up to our lives with expectations of where we're going to be at this certain time. And that's what I used to do. I had the biggest clock with every plan on it. And I just knew that I was going to be at this place and I think it's good to plan ahead. But to focus on the present and just focus on the process because every downfall of every Valley that I go through in my life if it's is tough is difficult while you're going through it. But as you mature you realize that life is not about the the destination it's about the process of getting to the destination. It's about the journey. So you have to understand what am I supposed to gain on this journey and then look back at the situation?

32:30 That you find yourself and see. Okay. What did I do to contribute to where I am right now?

32:39 So do some introspection look at what you did to put yourself where you are. What were your mistakes? What were the right things that you did then look at the outside influences and say, okay. What were the things that I just had no control over. Those are the things that you

32:58 Look at it and just you can breathe when you say that. It doesn't matter if I was on the 100% top of my game. That was an unforeseen thing that came out of the blue and I thought there was nothing I could do about its own assessment that and then just look to see what I'm still alive. I'm still breathing. So it's still a reason that I'm here. So I have to go through this with a determination in the focus and always have a reason of why you're doing things. I would encourage him to not do things for other people.

33:35 Is good that when you do things make other people proud such and such but to do it for yourself first and foremost so that you know that you're doing it for you. And so there's nothing to throw up in anyone else's face. I did this for you such-and-such know you did it for yourself you did it for yourself. And so you are your biggest motivator you and the reason that you do it and so

34:03 To just continue to push to let him know that is not over. There are is he's fortunate that there are alternatives available that he is not just on the street. Job Corps is good for a lot of people because I know a lot of people who went through it and it it makes you productive it gives you something to do and maybe

34:27 I believe the educational system is one-dimensional. Everybody is not supposed to learn the same way everybody and not supposed to go in the same direction and so certain people.

34:38 Don't get those aspects in this test-driven educational system. And so when they start taking the trade classes out of school like wood shop in mechanics and homak and things that cater to people interest.

34:59 It kind of limited what people saw themselves or what people saw that they could do and so I was just saying cuz I know the young man he has great potential and so I will just encourage him to continue to move and just move forward with his life and enjoy the journey and learn from it.

35:22 What have you?

35:24 Gained in your time as an educator.

35:31 What have you gained as a person? What has it done for you? I think one of the things that I learned is that sometimes kids are the best teachers. I'm finding that.

35:45 I thought that I was pretty proficient in math and I've seen kids come up with different ways of solving the same problem that someone who might have come come from a rope or a traditional math backgrounds where your creativity might have been stifled of it that that might not have come about. So even though some of the methods that they might have used might have been incorrect. They just mathematically we could not solve the problem that way for them to feel free to expend also expand their creativity and bring that into math has been something that has really blessed me seeing kids come in.

36:27 And knowing their story.

36:29 And they're still going hard seeing kids come in seeing I would even say some teachers come in and knowing their story and they're still bringing Joy to the students. What are things that I've learned as well is that when you are a teacher in a urban setting that's your life is not quite as traditional as some other areas and that it's not a 7:30 to 3:30 type of job, but it's my life. You know, I love seeing the teachers who are also coaches almost all the math teachers are coach. So and so don't call him, mr. Or mrs. But

37:12 Seeing the teachers take an active role being almost like a surrogate parent or being the Auntie or the uncle and just seeing the family atmosphere. I think I'm learning more of the things that I would like to do in my own family. I think it's definitely something that's only confirm more for me. Some of the things I want to do in the future. I've always wanted to adopt older children so middle school and up. I never had a desire to adopt infants and all it's done is I wish that I could spend more time to school. I wish I could be more in their lives and they inspired me and we're after school. I laugh a lot they

38:02 I feel like this the students have become like family even sometimes I call him that I'll say. Well family. This is what we're doing today. So I definitely gained a lot more than I put in every single day.

38:18 I agree with that. I feel the same way about him. It's it's kind of hard to be in that environment and and not become connected to the student. I don't understand how you can be human and do that. I mean and that's a part of the job just you're supposed to be human. You understand that they're human beings you are and so that's that connection is supposed to be empathetic. And so the relationships are supposed to be reciprocal you learn from them. They learn from you and you grow together. And so I love it because

38:53 I get to sit down with them when it comes to math and just read over things with them. Then I'll see new ways how to work out problems and we can just learn together. But the best thing is when the teacher and the student learn together, and so that just brings people that much closer cuz they can understand that.

39:15 All right, they can learn to they're still the learning process doesn't end.

39:22 So long as life is going the learning process doesn't end and so I can see this adult learning that encourages me to not feel.

39:33 Any type of way about not knowing information because no one knows everything and so when they see me learn and I see them learn and I help them learn what I just learned or something like that. It is empowering to them cuz I know it was for me when I saw a teacher's can it who could admit that they were wrong because I had a lot of teachers who did not admit when they were wrong because they were insecure but it takes a secure person to admit when they're wrong and show people who are supposed to be subordinate to them that they can be wrong and that you can grow together.

40:12 Well Jamal, it was a pleasure interviewing you during this time. I'm glad that I get to work with you and I have gotten to hear your story year. It was a pleasure.