Sue Rankin and Michael Shutt

00:08 My name is Michael Dwayne Schutt. I am 39 years old. So he my 40th year. Today is January 25th 2013. We are in Atlanta Georgia at the national meeting on LGBT equality creating change with the national gay and lesbian task force. I am here with Sue Rankin who is a colleague and friend from the Consortium of higher education LGBT Resource professionals.

00:42 And my name is Sue Rankin. I am 56 57 years old had a birthday last week. It is January 25th 2013 and we are at the ngltf creating change conference in Atlanta, Georgia and where our Consortium meetings take place and Michael is a wonderful colleague and friend.

01:11 Sue we were together within the Consortium of higher education LGBT Resource Centers LGBT Resource Professionals in higher education, which we lovingly call the Consortium

01:25 You are one of our Founders and we often refer to you as a Pocono parent because we you help conceive the Consortium in the Pocono Mountains with our other parents and I wanted you to share the story when you were sitting in a bar in Washington DC talking about doing a lesbian gay bisexual transgender work in higher education, and then the need to create such a an organization.

02:03 It's so fun to be here talking with you about this just so you know, and it was it was conceived in a bar. We were at and gltf in Washington DC Ronnie Stanley and Bob schoenburg and Dave Barnett and Beth Senske Sarah from Emory and Shepard from the NGL TF who was the campus liaison at that point in time. I'm going to sit around talking and saying, you know, we need to figure out a way to have these conversations more often. It was so wonderful day here somebody else having the same struggles at their institution that we were having a a Tarzan was like I thought I was all by myself doing this work and so was creating this manual for campus organizing and that's kind of how we start the conversation but it led to Ronnie and Bob and I think you know, we need to figure out some way to do this better.

02:57 What what campus is where you all at at the time that you talk about Bob and Ronnie and getting yourself? What campus is where you and I was actually softball coach at that point in time and doing this work. Also on campus Ronnie was at University of Michigan. Bob is at University of Pennsylvania. Dave Barnett was at the University, Illinois Chicago and Des empty was at the University of Minnesota. I think cuz that's where she was after that and Kurt was at the NGL. So the conversation led to a meeting that Bob hosted at UPenn where we kind of sat around. Is that okay? How do we do this? I think my contribution was in my softball world. I was at created or helped to create the national softball coaches association. And so this really planning part of that and had a constitutional

03:57 Boring stuff the bylaws and all that. So that's kind of where it started and then growing to see what I saw yesterday afternoon. Just touched my heart and I told her people in a room.

04:10 Youths who are so excited about doing the work on campus and that's why it's so fun to see you and how you've grown in the time that you put in the Consortium from the budding young professional at the University of Georgia to the current culture of the Consortium. So

04:28 What do you think the greatest challenges are the Consortium now that you've you've seen the history a little bit now, it's growing and where it's gotten all the growing pains we had.

04:40 Reese's going or the challenges. He might see what we're celebrating 15 years. One of the exciting things. The reason that this is such a fun event in the name of the Consortium meets at creating change every year and we've hosted a lot of things the Consortium grew out of those few campuses 15 years ago knowing that the profession started 41 years ago the University of Michigan.

05:14 I did today. This work is spreading across the country but also internationally and so we just had our first member from a university in Russia to join our organization. And that's very exciting. The challenges to the Consortium I think have to do with the diversity of Campus has the diversity of the people that we serve on those campuses thinking about the the fact that we have some campuses like the University of Michigan that was founded over 40 years ago in UPenn that has been around since the early 1980s that are that have accomplished so many things

06:05 And still understanding that we have campuses that student organization still can't even get meeting space. They refused access. We have universities in this country that will make people sign pledges that they will not engage in homosexual activity.

06:26 And so do you think about the range of Engagement and and acceptance and you know, we talked about tolerance and acceptance in you know, in a within the Consortium. We're at a place that we are so far beyond tolerance and at this place of Liberation and I don't know if we really even know what that looks like yet because although we have a great history. I think we're still very young. We often joke that being 15 years old were acting like a 15 year old, you know who we are a little obnoxious. We are we have lots of energy. We try new things. Sometimes we fall on our faces and sometimes we we do brilliant things and so the challenge with the diversity of the types of organizations in the experience is in the climates in the cultures, I think.

07:22 Makes our work really hard. I think the diversity of the people that we represent is also difficult. We I believe are doing really well. We're not doing it perfect by any means and having conversations about the fact that our profession is very white or hat and has a history of being white. It has a history of being cisgender. It has a history of being able body privilege in many ways and

07:55 So how is it that we can really engage such diverse college campuses that are growing more and more diverse every year if that is the case. That's why I think it's a challenge for us to create a pipeline to ensure that people can get access to this profession and and grow it in ways that are really intentional and I think that's that's hard and we keep throat falling on our faces this weekend. We introduced and are doing our conversations around our anti-racism planned we learned as we're rolling this plan out for organization that there was a plan that was developed, you know, five or six years ago that none of us knew about it. So I think it's a challenge for us and our institutional history of this organization have to be to keep that history in that knowledge. And so it's all so engaging people cross Our Generations.

08:55 So former board members folks have been doing this for years and years with undergraduate students that so desperately want to do this kind of work when they when they graduate and so I think that that is

09:10 Another challenge for eyes, but I truly believe that we're not for that. And then the last thing I would say is we are doing amazing work and we're all volunteers. And so we think about people in higher education in these positions that are already balancing things that they never believed that they were going to have to do. I mean did I think that I was going to have to understand insurance policies and I was going to have to understand facilities and laws around bathrooms when I took this job that is not a course that I think we're teaching innaarsuit Affairs programs to prep house for this.

09:50 But something new that we recently talked about what is the fact that that type of work prepares us so well-to-do. I think more intense work in higher education in deans of students position and vice president position in president positions for that matter because we are forced to have to think about these things and do these things in very very complex ways, but for us right now in our organization thinking about the fact that people already wearing 16 hats on their campuses,

10:28 And then volunteering for an organization that they love and that they has given them so much it's hard work. And so in 2013, we are in a new year. We are in a year-long strategic planning process and I hope that as we look back at this conversation that we

10:52 We say why we we got through that process. We set some goals and as you talked about earlier that you know, it's hard to believe what you see now compared to what was 15 years ago in 15 years what how I like to think about this is that we should we should celebrate our past and be be engaged in our present and we need to imagine the unimaginable future.

11:24 And I don't know how we do that but I think it's pretty cool. Think about that was brilliant review of kind of what the three most important things are for the Consortium and through all of those things. And even our first meeting is when we met about doing this Central was students, you know, the reason that we did this and that's part of the research that I do right? So that's my research that is his understanding how students of all underserved populations experience their campuses and how does very different from the population of students who are the majority on that campus. They don't see beyond the lens of that privilege and they never taught to think about seeing beyond the lens of that privilege. And so Central to what we did before but we've done since I might hope you'll do in the future is that is that Central focus on on meeting students needs and allowing students to be who they are either to bring their

12:24 Excel to their campuses and not only experience that when they come to ngltf me the story. You told me this morning about the young man who who went to the end shall be after the first time for memory instead went on the way home. I don't want to go back I want to go back is because I can't be who I am my full self on my on campus and now I recognize what it means to be who I am. So Central to what we do. I'm I'm convinced and I'm hopeful that the Consortium remains that while we are growing that we don't lose the focus of the reason why we exist as students and to serve those students, so trying to create space where they can feel safe where they can grow because the people that were in that room yesterday or undergraduate students,

13:17 And somewhere along that line. They had someone say to them you should do this work. And here's how you go about doing it here some really good programs around the country that you might want to consider doing your graduate work at that would allow you to pursue that and be mindful of the fact that we are here I sit here because of the people who came before me. No one piece. 814 Billie Jean King, I wouldn't be sitting here because I'm a low income first gen students from New Jersey and my parents my mom work in the grocery store. My dad works in a factory. They know anything about college. I know I want to be a teacher from time. I was a little love you be a teacher. I know what that's going to look like. I also love sport.

14:01 And had no idea that being able to throw a ball far and somebody else the little more accuracy would allow me and education the gala go to college and Billie. Jean King was a Pioneer in Title Nine.

14:18 Thunderbird in the South who would have thought that he would have written Title Nine. You know why that I found that out to White House recently that celebrate anniversary hear some of the stories and Thunderbird said, you know, when I applied to College University of Virginia, I and my wife my then-wife multiply the same time I got in and she didn't she smarter than me and you know, I have a wife and three daughters in that's why that from a privileged white Southern gentleman as an across the table from a privileged white Southern gentleman that vet

15:05 Pipe connection for me kind of just hit my head do all of those things come together, but that title 9 thing was important than that. We need to recognize that there are a lot of folks in that room yesterday would not have been there had not been for someone took an interest someone who went the extra mile to to say when you could change this policy or encouraged to have a living space that stay for me when I come to a campus those things for struggles. It took us 15 years to get domestic partner benefits at Penn State because of the work of a lot of people that finally came to fruition and now people will apply who wouldn't be applied before because they see that policy in that that's possibly a good place for me to be so those shoulders are important for us to remember

15:53 And I did and I think back to

15:56 When I open the LGBT Center at the University of Georgia in 2005, it was the first center at a public institution in the state of Georgia. We've convinced the vice president the Provost that it was the thing to do and then they threw it back to me and said and you're going to run it was a great idea at the time. I didn't know what I was getting myself into and it was a very very scary time and I think that and then this comes back to your point on.

16:34 Getting that support and standing on folks shoulders and then and that I remember sitting at my desk and getting an email after from the Consortium list. So I mailed out and said I am, you know, we've opened a center we are here we are doing this and I get an email from this person that I had used her research.

17:01 I had used it to help get the center and when you think of, you know rock stars and people who are accessible not accessible to you, you know, this person was just did to the you know.

17:17 Just a rockstar and I get an email from that person. And that was Doctor Sue Rankin saying congratulations. Please let me know if you need anything.

17:30 And that really got me through some really hard times and cried all weekend. If you could go into that and even more details of what does hard times were some of the stories.

17:47 Sure, so, you know working at the the University of Georgia. I was a health educator and I started working with students. And so I'm going to ask you about two students in just a second and I started revising the student group and we had some really strong students that were holding their own space. They had an office they were collecting data showing how they is volunteers were basically keeping an LGBT office and the dean of students was very interested and supportive of them and really wanted to do something but as you can imagine the politics of the flagship institution in the Southeast in Georgia legislators that think they own the institution Governors who have graduated from the institution a Board of Regents that are made up of liquor salesman and and car dealers.

18:47 It's interesting to look at that the politics of of higher education. And so we got to a place that we kept pushing and pushing for resources and it was blocking and then and then we we were supportive we want to do this, but there was a fear of backlash and

19:13 One we got a lot of knows. No, you can't do this. No is not possible. No, no, no using the word wait and if we remember a certain letter from a Birmingham Jail from dr. King, I think that we realized what wait wait meant if we wait long enough for this generation of students to get out. They the next generation won't remember

19:46 In so fortunately, we had a strong group of students that did remember.

19:55 And they were not going to take no, so there was this this interesting combination of staff and faculty and students who started being very strategic and using institutional policy procedure and using it against

20:14 Or using it the way it's supposed to be used but administrators didn't necessarily like that. So they were doing open records requests against the University.

20:23 They

20:26 They win win this when students asked for the non-discrimination policy to be changed to include text orientation when domestic partnership policy was asked to be changed and the university said well, we can't do this and it passed University counsel, but then that didn't get implemented. We had to point out to the university that the the president was actually violating the bylaws of the university. And so the president then said it was the Board of Regents decision. The Board of Regents said it was the president's decision and our students during this time were so brilliant that one day when the new Chancellor was coming to visit UGA day.

21:09 They found out what time you were supposed to arrive.

21:12 And they waited for a freshman waited for them at the door and don't approach the president and the new Chancellor and said Mr. Chancellor. I've been in contact with you.

21:25 You have said that it is the president's authority to implement these policies. Mr. President. You have said that it's the Chancellor's decision to implement these policies. We are all here right now whose responsibility is this and so within several months those policies were implemented and part of that and that that came a little bit after the center was open there and one of the reasons that that could happen was because the students no longer had to hold that space.

22:01 The university now was holding the space and doing the education. They were managing the volunteers for the space. They were providing resources to students were no longer required to do the job that the university should have been doing it. So the students were then free to explore their identities and to ask for more things and quite honestly be pissed at times that they weren't getting what they should have been getting but there were retribution to that. We did something simple.

22:35 My second year there were two bathrooms on the second floor of our building that were single stall bathrooms and they were gender and I asked the director of the leadership Center if we could change the signs and just say bathroom have gender-neutral bathrooms. They were single thought they were like our bathrooms at home and they were bathrooms like this all over campus that just said bathrooms and she looked at me and she laughed and said I use both of them anyway, so I'm not quite sure what the big deal is. So I bought the the signed I still have the the the man and women or men and women signs.

23:11 Because I purchased myself that this bathroom sign and we replace them. I send an email to students on our list servant said we now have gender-neutral bathrooms in the building someone forwarded that email to a local LGBT newspaper cuz I thought it was big news.

23:28 Mind you we couldn't have a grand opening for our Center because we wanted to be under the Raider we meaning the university not we and so we were under the radar but when the newspaper pick this up for some reason the Associated Press picked up the story because they thought it was a big deal that we have gender-neutral bathrooms, but really they were single stall bathrooms.

23:53 Write this was not a big deal. They wrote it up. And this is when 13 state legislators contacted the university and wanted to meet with the president and I was told this by who's now the vice president. I'm that three of them finally met with the Vice President in the Provost and I was told

24:13 That part of the conversation included the statement of we don't want a dime of electricity spent on those people and if you continue to do so we will pass legislation in the state of Georgia to ensure that no other university is able to offer these services.

24:37 And so at that point in time we went on the defensive and basically we were told to go back into the closet and my job from that point in time was to silence students.

24:52 Support them enough

24:54 But make sure that they don't cause a problem because if they do you may lose the center that was the message and so it was the motivation of the students at the amazing work that they did to struggle through an institution. That is very white. It's very ingrained in football culture excetera to watch them be able to thrive with having that space. They're the only space as we would do assessments and focus groups that they felt that they could be completely safe and so is so you talked about

25:37 The students guiding this and being grounding. I actually want to ask you thinking about your experiences.

25:49 At Penn State and knowing that you have jumped through more fire over more walls through hoops. I'm trying to think of an obstacle course here and have more scars.

26:06 From that if you could just talk about some of the students or some of the experiences that you've had that make you sleep really sound at night because you've done the things that you you've done and that you that motivates you to keep doing those things.

26:29 Your story was one of the driving forces behind the Consortium, right? Because we were hearing those stories from everybody who was trying to create centers or trying to create safe spaces on campus for students.

26:44 In students on almost every campus were the driving force behind making change student activism is why things happened on college campuses in my 35 years of higher education experience?

26:58 There are very few times that I miss her is do things because it's the right thing to do around issues have Justice and social justice. And yeah, there's been a lot of work that has been done around these issues in the lot of things you're saying we're taking chords for me because that's the story that we heard from students and from people in the field trying to do the work and he needs articles in higher education is one of the reasons why I got a PhD in higher education frankly so I could actually understand more of the process and maybe be able to make change so that may come back to a story which is my story Pride, which I think is what you're asking me to talk about and

27:37 It started because I guess I was a little confused and kid I I go to college on a softball scholarship are the First Title 9 Uno scholarships. Did you get the play I got to go to school because you can throw a ball far find somebody else and I want to be a physical education teacher and coach mean that was kind of my my goal at that time. And one of my very very important people in in my my own development besides my parents who are amazing. I can I was 13 and I come from a very large Italian Irish Catholic Family. So and my mom asked me one day when I was 13 at the dinner table after church, which is a big thing. Also. I know church dinner. Are you more than just friends and I'm like no we can't lie to tell your mother very long. So by the end of the evening, you know, I told her the truth and she said fine bring her around here. Stop stop doing it outside.

28:36 Is about having this be part of the family, so I thought it was during this like that. Right? And so I never thought of me being different than anyway. I was just so just had girlfriend. That was okay.

28:49 Am I get to college and I start playing amateur softball and also playing college softball when I meet lots of other women who are also lesbian and down a community of people who were supportive but it was very stealth unlike my home life, which was a very open with his totally different than most students experience. They go to campus need to get the ticket to be open eyes open at home from here on campus. So looking back at those kinds of I have lots of room and a PE teacher who both recognize that I was gay and both came to me. This isn't the early 70s and said,

29:30 You know, let's go to lunch. Let me take you to one of them brought me back to their house and let their partner in to let me know this is it this was an okay thing to be and I was already okay with it, but they didn't know that right. So I think it was just those kinds of really positive experiences net underpinning Foundation of family and support that allows you to do the work that I can do that I've done since then.

29:51 So I played and went to college I went to grad school at Penn State and became women softball coach youngest women's softball coach died in division 1 coaches meeting and they thought I was a grad assistant and inexperienced.

30:08 Was also trying to bring us doing all PT staff nationally worked great the state of Pennsylvania rights coalition to work in state issues and

30:21 In that time on campus. I was out to my team and doing things on campus but really didn't work on a 50's on campus until 3 Portland case came up. And when I first started coaching, there are a number of student-athletes who came to me and you know, they closed the door and say can I talk to you right now? I think I'm getting a lot of my athletes were dating basketball players and their a lot of basketball players are going through a lot of difficult times.

30:55 The glass Twins were the first that came to my attention in two twins play great basketball and Coach Portland. What's homophobic and felt that lesbian should be playing basketball and asked.

31:12 Found ways to have those young people removed from her team.

31:17 And that happened for 30 years and the hardest thing for me was in student-athletes came to me instead. What do I do?

31:27 No, I want to fight this or what. Can I do about this in my in my response was if you want to keep playing basketball, you have to keep your mouth shut and that was really hard for me as of right open wanting to promote open this but those kids relied on that scholarship to go to school if they lost that Scotch if they wouldn't be in higher education. So I have them transferred some of them left.

31:55 Aimee Garcia

31:58 There is homophobia in sport the last two bastions of of of homophobia detection in my opinion are the military and and Athletics and we've made large inroads in both those places in a lot of my colleagues and I and Athletics pack Griffin in particular. I sat across tables at meetings and said did you ever think in your lifetime be having this conversation? So for example of that we went to the NCAA and did a trans inclusive discussion about how we make trans athletes inclusive in the NCAA and I'm like, you know that everything could happen in my lifetime imagine exactly and we did I just came for the LGBT esport Coalition that were forming with Nike to talk about trying to eradicate homophobia in five years. So hopefully it will read this or think about this discussion. We're having 10 years from now, maybe that will come to fruition presenting at the NCAA convention on LGBT student-athlete research that I've done this past January never in my life. And I think those kind of things would happen because of what happened.

32:58 In my experience around Sport and I don't think it's you need the basketball.

33:03 And I think that homophobia and sport is homophobia in sport and part of that is around masculinity issues and what it means to be a man and the lesbian label has been used for years and Athletics to deter women from the work we are from being out because they're afraid of negative recruiting and all kinds of things that might happen and I remember I was in

33:25 This is an Iowa recruiting a picture for a picture and another coach was also referring to do home visits when you're coaching at to go to the home and visit the athlete in the parents and stuff. And so we are having a conversation and I walked in and saw that this is a very religious family and there's a buy one that gave me an indication of that a very conservative family and I'm out and I'm very clear about that. And that was part of it came up for discussion. Somebody ask me. I'm not going to deny that epic herpes and the parents asked and I said, yes and and some of my Outlets are getting some of them are not but to me doesn't matter as long as you can play right? And I think that people are supposed to have teams that are people allowed to be who they are cells may come to that the support are more successful cuz you're not hiding part of who they are at the time. So those conversations with parents did happen.

34:22 Other coaches would use that as a negative recruiting tool and say you don't want to send your kid to play at Penn State because that coaches game when the kid goes there. She'll be gay when she leaves right? Then I'll have that power by the way nice thing is that in my ear is bleeding koteas leaving coaching and down. I was recruiting a 16 year old athlete who was brilliant. And so she was going to go to college as a sixteen-year-old but they play in this American Softball Association leagues in the summer that are by age group and she was 16 and under playing in that role. So that one coach went to her dad who is also her summer coach and said, you know your good-byes a great picture Rent-A-Car ever come to our institution and the dad do with thanks very much. But she's already committed to go to Penn State and the coach said that you don't want to go there. That's where coach ranking is gay in. The rest of the team is gay and she'll be gay the dad turned his head. I thought I want to play for you if you're last quote on Earth.

35:20 So I think there's been cultural shifts and things that have changed the story that I was trying to talk about was that that homophobia in athletics was so I need and that coach had so much power that you could allow those student-athletes not to play and have a horrendous experience at that same time. All this was happening when then-coach Berlin had the three training rules that came out of know a place. No drugs no lesbians in the Chicago Sun-Times article that got back to campus the student activism around that was immense. We're also trying to get sexual orientation discrimination closet that same time so I can Perfect Storm happens on campus and I was involved in both of those things and the unfortunate consequence was that I lost my job coaching. They weren't ready for an out activists gay coach at Penn State. They didn't say there was a reason I was dismissed and I was willing enough games. I wasn't true. I've been very successful. So we think about students

36:20 And I went to the administration and work there. I can make more change there then I could before I did research on LGBT stuff. The climate in higher education for underserved populations is

36:32 Influencing Student Success academic success, there are developmental success and they're athletic and there's I want to do research to support that because before.

36:45 Stories of students right we still have Matthew Shepard.

36:52 We still have Tyler Clemente.

36:57 Recent those are my children.

37:00 My work is because I don't want that happening to Future children. And that's the work of the Consortium those students should not feel so alone isolated without support that they pay their own lies or lies to take it from them.

37:18 You lie about

37:20 12 minutes, but you really gave us super superficial story of your story and wonder if you want to take a few more minutes to go into that with either some high points some low points a specific memory you'd want but stays with you.

37:45 So one of the things that was a turning point map is losing my job as a coach. That was my identity. And what do I do now, but I had a mentor on campus gym Stuart who is the vice Provost for educational Equity who said I'm going to rain LGBT position in my office and I want you to apply and he knew it was going on. I guess you couldn't tell me that but I know he knew so having that person be that support and they apply for this position. See if you get it and I did or said start of LGBT Center on Penn State's campus. It was a resource closet. We called it at 4. So that's a high point, right? It was one little room that we had so that built into the center that is now from the best in the country.

38:25 That wouldn't have happened. If Jim hadn't taken the initiative to give me that support on a campus. That was very unsupportive at that time. I didn't have the foundational piece from my family.

38:39 If Carrie LaBelle from the n g t o n d l t i v II director at one point. I was kind of wallowing in my own pity about losing my job and everything and she said what to expect.

38:49 This happened to all of us.

38:52 So what are you doing? I can sit here and whine about you going to do something about it. So it's kind of a that's a huge thing to turn around to so and then Danielle do the research around these issues. I think was an important piece and having the Consortium because no one in athletics had my back all of my friends who are also Were Gay did not come to my support at all. But the Consortium members did Ronnie and Bob and death. They rallied around me and said you can you can keep doing this work in a different way.

39:26 And so having bring it back the Consortium and I'm talking about today. I think that support system was incredibly important.

39:37 2030 North this time. For a space alien who can't imagine how you all were communicating with each other how that support is provided. I wonder if you walk each share a little bit about that.

39:51 Sports in the Consortium was people calling me people email me who I didn't know friends who were part of other lvt that are so I didn't hadn't met yet who were saying, you know, what can we do to be supportive around? This could be write letters. Can we you know, what can we do to be supportive? And at that point I was also very involved the Consortium and was on the executive board and still having those calls or I could be who I was and share what I was feeling and having them say, you know, this is awful. What can we do to do anything about it and then having Jen Harris that finally who is the greatest basketball player at Penn State finally say enough is enough and nclr the national Center for lesbian rights being willing to take on the case and fighting Penn State and winning cuz renew was forced to resign and I was still there so that's a high point.

40:45 And I think that understanding.

40:50 The risk that

40:54 Our professionals are taking by even talking out loud having this network is so important because there is an even on the phone we have listservs, but there are times where we wonder who else is on that list serve and how will that information be used? Because they are organizations out there that will sue our institutions over the things that we say if they get out there and so we have to use the phone a lot in person a lot to help protect us if we

41:32 We have members that are I think especially at State institutions that can't even ask the Consortium and our members for help because once the information gets out there if that members the only person out of a group of five on that campus that knows what's going on. It's going to come back to them and they will be fired and so during some of our struggle my struggles at the University of Georgia when we were hitting up against these legislators and what have you I was giving a lot of messages that I couldn't share with anyone because I knew I would lose my job.

42:10 In so that is is true today as we try to support each other through our listservs and our conference is and everything else would we do is that there is risk in doing the work and the importance of this conference. It is critical and you can talk to any Consortium member and say, you know, what is your favorite thing about this, this conference? I think there are things about being authentic their things about learning and taking away things about teaching others all of these things. But my favorite favorite response is

42:52 I don't have to explain to anybody what I do.

42:57 I can just do it because we have in the state of Georgia right now.

43:03 We have two people or two campuses that have a full-time person doing this work.

43:10 We have a smaller institution that is that has someone assigned to do this work with it, but it's very small, but you think about the fact that Georgia is a huge state.

43:23 But when I started in 2005

43:28 I hosted the first southeastern regional meeting of the Consortium this the region reached from Virginia through, Louisiana.

43:41 And there were seven of us in 2005 five of them came to this meeting and they all spent the night at my house. And so you had University of Virginia Chapel Hill North Florida, Florida and the University of Georgia Emory and Duke couldn't be there at the time and it was a time where we can just come together and pee and laugh and cry and be strategic because we met at Georgia and those folks ask me we'd set up a lunch with administrators on campus and they looked at me and they said Michael what kind of seeds do you want us to plant today? Because we know what you're talking about, but we know that if we say it it will be different.

44:28 And so the organization is important in the work that we do is important and quite frankly risky when I was

44:39 When did we need to receive George was about to open their Center there the idea that was going to open. I went to one of my mentors and I was working on my doctorate at the time and working full-time.

44:54 And I said If this job open should I apply for it? And I wanted it so bad. I can taste it right and she looked at me and said not if you ever want to be a vice president or dean of students.

45:10 And so I was a little deflated but I have a history of people saying what you can't do this and I do challenge so bring it on in. So when the position was available, we were they offered it to me. They wanted me to they didn't want to actually do a search because then they would have exposed themselves of knowing that it they actually were hiring. So I took the position when I went back to her and I said, you know, I have thought a lot about what you told me.

45:41 And I want to tell you quite frankly that you're wrong and let me tell you why.

45:50 You are correct. In the fact that I will never be the vice president or dean of students at the University of Georgia in 2005. And that's not what I'm asking to do. And that's not quite frankly. What I wanted to I said, but I know that after doing this work and me applying for other jobs and employers going to say you did what where and when

46:18 I'm going to give you whatever job you want because if you can do that, you can do anything and we've proven that and lovely being able to kind of share that I said from your tears of time had all weekend. So thank you for that. But we now have at Kennesaw State in Georgia the first openly gay cdlc University officer at the institution in Georgia who was a former student of mine frankly. So that that circle is very tight. We have an out lesbian president at Clarion University in Pennsylvania the middle of nowhere, so there are positions and people filling those because they're good at what they do.

47:02 And some of those in the future. I'm hoping we sitting here across this table who are two

47:10 Senior presidents in very large institutions who are open about who they are and who they love.

47:17 So thank you Michael for what you going to be done already when you can do in the future. I'm glad to pass the torch.

47:25 Well, and you know, it's for me this has been a really great weekend. We

47:37 The Consortium as has really been digging deep and what who it serves what it does where it's going in a part of that is knowing our history and celebrating our history celebrating the folks that have made it possible for us to do this work in those that have supported us in this work and I'm so being able to present to you on the stage of the opening plenary session the award for your contributions to this profession was just extraordinary absolutely extraordinary and I hope that I would I was hoping to achieve will use I statements what I was hoping to do and in what motivated me to push so hard for the award.

48:37 Getting us wants to change for all of the things which were challenges was I wanted to show you I wanted to demonstrate to you that all of your work is important. It is used all the time. It's accessible and that you have changed higher education forever.

49:07 I'm in so

49:10 The students that we serve probably don't have a clue.

49:18 And that's okay.

49:20 Are professionals do

49:24 And yesterday in our in our big meeting when I had them stand up and if if if they had used your research if they had worked with you if they had used your researching a paper or to change policy and practice.

49:43 The 200 people that were in that room there were what five that weren't standing by the end.

49:52 That told that story and I needed you.

49:59 Just see it. I needed you to hear it and I needed you to feel it.

50:05 Sound I thank you for everything that you've done for me for our profession for our students. I love and adore you. So, thank you. Love you too, Michael. Thank you.