Dan Le and Peter Wallace

00:03 My name is Peter Wallace. I'm 58 years old. Today's date is May 11th, 2013. I have a frog in my throat at we are in Atlanta Georgia at the Dunwoody public library and the relationship my relationship to my storycorps partner is that we are partners.

00:28 My name is Dan Leigh. I'm 50 years old and today's date is October inside May 11th, 2013. And we're in Atlanta Georgia at the Dunwoody Public Library. My interviewer is Peter Wallace my partner.

00:50 Then you're not mad a little over seven years ago, and it was the first time I really got to know anyone of Vietnamese descent. And of course being raised in America in the 60s and 70s Vietnam was such a cultural Touchstone and so it's been

01:13 Amazing for me to really get to know you and your story over the years since and so I'd like to ask it a little bit about your journey sure, and I thought if you could start with your childhood, I like to know just what it was like to be a child in Vietnam at that time and what was going on.

01:37 Well for me being a child in Vietnam was very normal. I didn't know anything different but I can tell you there's times a day when I woke up and would found which find a house my neighbors, you know, all in roubles, obviously open overnight and they were been some kind of Rocket attacked and people that we know for years just to Spanish and I actually was born and raised and in Saigon before I left and come to the United States. I was there for about 11 12 years. And for me was very normal. I would just a kid going to school coming home back home to my my mom my dad and my family for me with that was nothing unusual about it. You know, I always thought that you know, every kids had the same experience.

02:37 Cuz I have

02:39 What sort of work did your father do my father was actually a general manager for our family business in Vietnam at that time people and family used to stay together and operate a business together, you know, there's not really any kind of government support. So the more extended family you have the more security that you have. So my mother's Uncle I have two uncles and my father they were all in businesses together and he were basically the general manager of the of the theaters that the family home movie theaters movie theaters.

03:35 And you were the youngest child. Yes. I am. I am actually the youngest child in a family of 9 siblings my I have my oldest brother bombed who?

03:55 Who had Polio when when he was younger? So and then I have three other brothers at the time right before I left Vietnam. They were in the military. They was drafted to fight in the war and I have three sister and I have one more brother and myself. I'm the last one.

04:19 Remember you telling me once about going to the beach? What did you have a family place on the coast? Yeah, we do. I I would say that we

04:32 We were not average people. I guess we could be I thought I was average but in our family we have places in different, you know, we have places in Saigon. We have houses. We have a vacation homes at the beach in in top or used to be a cop soundtrack, but it's also known as pulling tile and then we have houses up and alive not necessary on by my mom and dad but it just owned by my uncle's and we just share it family was really extended that that that time is not only your mom and dad but your uncle's your and your nephew cousins. Everybody is part of your family.

05:19 So were you aware at age 11 or 12? Just before you left about the the political situation in the end, even the fear of what was going on what you know, of course is a lot of fear. I mean, how can you not be even for me as a little child? I like I said three of my brothers at they were at the age where they were actually drafted to go into the military to fight and you can tell that pow.

05:50 Now they change after they come back for when they have a visit home visit. Of course, you see stuff the same thing that you see in America over there. I'm you see the the propaganda and you see the the war scene. I was lucky enough to to live and in Saigon, so I wasn't as bad as out in the countryside as some of the main major war battles, but I would I would say that it's it's at time it can be very fearful at night. Even though I'm 50 years old. I every night when I close my eyes. I can still see Soldier across the street behind

06:42 Sandbags, and and I still seeing that my brother went back a few years ago and he took a picture of it and he came back and show it to me and he's you know, he told me see there's no more Soldier. There's no more sandbags, but it's still there. I still see it. We're not allowed to go out of the house after 10 p.m. The entire cities under curfews as long as I can. Remember the whole 11 12 years. I was there it's rarely that you can stay out in the street all night ever and if you venture out there's no guarantee that you're going to come back alive. Cuz any, you know, you can be shot by either the communist or you know, this soldier of South Vietnam soldier and they not now there's not much you could do about it.

07:34 I know you've been reading the book Embers of War which won the Pulitzer Prize this year about the history of Vietnam.

07:44 Roughly from World War II up to

07:48 Your childhood kind of filled in some information for you. And as you read that book what how do you react to it?

07:58 Well at when I read that book, I thought it was a very well written book. I'm glad it's got some, you know, I get towards to see but for me growing up, you know, I was part of that propaganda about how communist is really terrible and then you know, they are here to to kill you and the South Vietnamese Soldier and the American Soldier. They're here to liberate you. I didn't quite understand what it was all about. What was Vietnam was it a war of independence or was it a war of ideologies for me the way I see it was more about ideology. But after reading that book is very much about the war of independence and obviously I'm on the losing side. So I'm here but

08:59 You know, when do you read that book? You have a sense that there was just so many things if we had better understand of the geopolitical that time a lot of suffering and death and pain could have been prevented on both sides in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos and even for the families of America new had to send their sons and daughter over to fight in Vietnam. All that could have been prevented and could have come up with a more civilized way of resolving our differences.

09:45 So the situation got serious enough that your parents felt like they needed to do something. Yeah. Well, we you know, we didn't know what's really happening, you know, the 12 years. I was in Vietnam this a time where everything was very quiet and then next thing you know, that is very fighting everywhere again, so we thought this is probably just another you know campaign by the communist North is trying to attack the South again and they going to be Thor we going to be fine, but you can but at that time my oldest brother lime he because of his polio. He was not drafted into the military. So he actually work as an interpreter for the American government and him and his wife knew and because there were something

10:45 The air that that that

10:48 You know that the US government has planned to pull out and get most of the Vietnamese people do not know that civilian do not know that so my brother being the fact that he worked for the American government they offer him the opportunity to leave the country and go to the us as Refugee Asylum and he asked my mother and my father if you know if they would let the younger sibling go with him. And of course, my dad did not hesitate. He knows that even if some even if something wasn't bad happening being able to go to the United States was a great opportunity for you know, a better life, even though my life was not miserable in Vietnam, but it's still a much better life in the

11:48 And it's safer and they never thought that that that the war has completely cut them off. So they always hope that someday, you know, we just leave and then later on they can join us again. And like I said before the three other brothers was still in the military. So, you know, they just couldn't leave but they know that they can send out the younger children so that they you know, they would get them out of Harm's Way. And so am I my oldest brother Lomb his wife and his youngest son Dennis at that time three of my sister.

12:32 Aloe young and and then my older brother men and myself. We were we got the paper process and we were a few days right before the fall of Saigon in April we get on

12:57 Actually the whole family my my cousin my you know, my uncle's family. They knew that we were leaving and they want us to go so they say their goodbyes. It was really difficult.

13:14 I remember my dad when he was he was trying to be brave about it. So he was kind of make fun of my mom for crying but I noticed that when he turned around he was actually crying himself so we get on you know a band and we were all taken to the ton Sydney airport and we were supposed to wait for the next flight out of Saigon, but it got so

13:46 But the dope the Communist got so close to the airport. They start shelling the airport. So we couldn't leave we could definitely could not leave. So we had to stay there. We stay in the tent with hundreds of other people and there was no plan of provision that this large amount of people would be in this at this specific location of ants in yard. I think it's in the military part of it. I'm so we will basically trapped there was no food no water whatsoever. It was pretty scary and when night falls came all the lights in the city was turn off because the the Communist. Sheldon again, and we finally very late at night when the shelling stop we were able to get onto a bus.

14:40 And it was totally dark and that was the like the very first time that I really see the wickedness up of a people of one human to the next my youngest nephew. He was I think he was only eight or nine or something like that less than a year old and we haven't had water all day. So being a child, you know, he just cry. He doesn't know any better and

15:09 And finally kept crying but we were supposed to stay quiet because we don't want to make a lot of noise because if the the Communist Soldier knew that we're in the dark somewhere, they might want to shoot us an end. She'll where we were so it was dark I couldn't see who it was. But I think there was a South Vietnamese Soldier on Airport guard that came up and just basically scream at my brother at his son that if you don't quiet your son, I'm going to shoot him dead right now and

15:48 At that point that was the point when people other people on the bus realize that

15:55 You know, we all in this together. This guy's going to stop shooting us so they had water all night, but they would not offer it to my little nephew until at that point that they know that I can haul.

16:10 Be killed so they gave my nephew block some water to calm him down and we waited waited much longer and then it just just like that everybody wish rush off the bus and into I want to say a DC-10. It's a military cargo where the bag the hatches drop down and you just basic just ran up the RAM and just find a seat as quickly as you can. I we brought luggages but we didn't take anything with with with me that I can remember and we we all ran up there. And as soon as I sat down I remember that I split the seat of my pants and that's all I worry about. I ripped my clothes. I'm going to be in trouble my mom's going to yell at me cuz I ripped my clothes.

17:06 And and so later on we were all very tired. And finally we were able to take off and

17:17 It just it just a great Sensation that that now that you actually free using liberated and I remember looking through.

17:30 The windows of the plane and all I can see your beautiful stars, but they're not the color of the of the star that I remember. They actually colors of Christmas light and I don't know if it were real star my imagination my hallucination. It could be flare a good be gunfire. I'm not sure but it was dark and didn't you didn't hear any sound because you inside the plane, but I did see very colorful stars that night and that was then I realized I left Saigon for a long time.

18:07 And you went from where?

18:11 From there as a kid. I had a wonderful summer. We went from Saigon to Subic Bay to Manila.

18:24 And then from Manila, we actually went to a rib sheetcam and Guam will we stay there for a few months? We were actually staying in the cam and that's when we actually heard that Saigon fell and we did not know what happened to the rest off family. My oldest brother's actually stayed behind so his wife and his kids and and all of us were in Guam at that time. We just basically slept on cots in military tents, you know eating at the mess hall wait for me at the kid. It was just like summer camp. It was like go to the beach while I was a beautiful place. It's so isolated from the rest of the world except for the military base with some beautiful beaches there as kids we

19:24 Hang out with with other kids we go to the beach and play on the beach and watching all these sea creature that we have never seen before so I in a way I was sad, but in a way being a kid that was so exciting for me and then we finally got noticed that we would be

19:46 Transported and moved to Fort Chaffee Arkansas. But before we actually got there we landed in California in San Bernardino. It was amazing and then we actually land and Little Rock, Arkansas.

20:05 And when the funny thing is when we got to the airport, that was like the very first time I see Americans as people instead of just things on TV. I see the way they dress the way they act was totally different from me. I was actually really scared this one girl. She she actually had braces on and I didn't know what it was and she was really scary for me. But you know, that was a learning process and then we get on the bus there was actually people outside protesting the fact that you know that I guess Arkansas was taking in refugees. I didn't understand English that well at the time but there was sign if he was chanting and screaming when we were on our way to Fort Chaffee.

21:07 And then you know the summer of 1975 continue. I we stay in that military cam there was other kids and then eventually believe it or not because of our family businesses. One of my uncle has a cargo ship and right before the fall of Saigon. He basically just call everybody up in our family and you know immediate family to you know, we got to go so he he took as many people as possible to get on his cargo ship due to leave Vietnam and they know that if they just leave Vietnam if they get into International Water somehow they would be rescued but for some reason I didn't understand my mom and dad didn't go didn't come with them and I believe that because my

22:06 Mother was the youngest sibling in the family. She had to basically take order from her older brothers that you will stay behind and watch.

22:20 The family business and she didn't have any choice. She had to stay behind with my dad just in case this is just a false alarm that they come back later that we have a way to support, you know, how livelihood so they were the one who stayed behind and then later on my my uncle's my Nino and their family we all join up in Fort Chaffee. So that was probably the very last time that we see our family a big family together in one place.

23:02 And then from there eventually my my brother he worked with

23:09 With a colonel in the military, mr. Thompson and he wrote a letter to mr. Thompson to ask him to see if he would be willing to sponsor us relocate us and help us adjust and live in the United States and to the kindness of mr. And mrs. Thompson. They agreed to under the condition that they would speak to that Lutheran Church to allow them.

23:42 Provide them funding and support to email to support it is obviously a very big family in American standard mean you talkin about a man in his early 20 his wife his young son to teens boy a teenage girl. My sister Lou was 1919 and the other two sister was similar age and we waited and we waited and finally, mr. Thompson say that the the church has turn it down because they didn't see any way that they can support us with this site at a large family and that we may have to be separated cuz there's no way that they can do this.

24:32 But I believe that mr. Thompson was very kind and it didn't want that to happen. So he basically took us all on his own Finance on his shoulder and just just asked us to come over and stay with him and he will help us the best way he can sew from

24:57 Fort Chaffee we went I went to we flew to Richmond Virginia and then from Richmond, Virginia, we actually finally settle in Petersburg Virginia and all of us stay at mr. And mrs. Thompson was a three-bedroom apartment with a mean old picking a dog tiger bear that I just couldn't I didn't like very well she ruled the house. And in the reason for that it was during this time. Mr. Thompson was retiring and he sold his his main house and he was building he was buying a farm out in McKinney, Virginia, which is very farming area of Virginia peanut country Eastern Virginia until we stay with him and he helped my brother long to find a job in that the hospital as a cleric and then slowly he he invested some of his money.

25:57 My two sister Ashley went back and become hotel maid making minimum wage and they put a little bit of money to basically bought this 3-bedroom 1-bath Ranch box that we all kind of lived in in Petersburg. Not far from Crater Road, which is a very, you know famous battle in the Civil War. So that's how we started Alliance in America.

26:34 And so here you are about 12 years old. You got to start school. You can barely speak English, but you discovered the neighborhood Library. What does that mean for you?

26:49 Well

26:53 I was born and live in a very chaotic world and after an amazing summer, you know real a reality finally hit me, you know, I the three thing that I treasure the most

27:11 Dad that I hold on very dear when I was living in Vietnam was that

27:19 Number one. I was very lucky because I have parents and dumb a lot of children in Vietnam don't have parents and you see that and I feel lucky that I had I had Parents, you know, I was glad that I live in my very own country. I speak my own language. I'm not a foreigner thirdly how family was not poor we will well connected. We have social status. Those are the three things that I was very, you know grateful to have when I was I was living in Vietnam. And as soon as I landed in Petersburg, you know reality and gotten basically just hit that

28:04 The three things that that I was grateful love is gone.

28:11 So, it's some

28:14 The world is very chaotic. I mean even more cute chaotic then that wasn't in Vietnam for me. I was 12. I was going through puberty. The family structure is totally change. I mean, who's the who's the leader now? Who do we look up to who's who's doing? So it was so chaotic.

28:38 But the library was was about 3 or 4 miles from

28:45 From our Ranch and I usually walk along the track and then on Saturday, sometimes that would take I would ride my bike to go to the library because for kid from Vietnam to see the liver is so amazing. The American library is you know, it's is at the Cornerstone of democracy. The information is so readily available in country like Vietnam in third world country that time, you know, the government would feed you lied would give you propaganda. So that's how they stay in power.

29:24 So the the public library was a way that you can go and find any kind of information you wanted to do you want the world to make sense to you just continue to read I didn't read that well at that time, but I know that you know this information there that I can I can use and I can learn the libraries organized the library makes sense. You know, this is Dewey Decimal System 150 psychology. I mean it everything is well organized. It's it's predictable and a peaceful place to very peaceful place and very quiet.

30:02 It's the the Walnut Hill Petersburg Public Library. I can still see that.

30:11 Now your mother.

30:15 Your mother and father stayed in Vietnam. Yes.

30:21 Man, you never saw your mother again.

30:24 I know unfortunately not, you know after the fall of Saigon because of the you know, what happened in Vietnam. That was no diplomatic tie between the United States and Vietnam because Vietnam has become a communist country in frankly after you know two decades Warren and so much destruction. I think the American public was not ready to have not want to be reminded of Vietnam anymore. So was it total, you know, this communication between Vietnam so but people like myself and my family and the other Vietnamese Refugee, we are the one that who could not

31:12 Have any contact with our family back in Vietnam? There was no letters we could of course. There's no phone call. The only way 2 years later. We will actually getting letters from my mom and dad but it wasn't direct mail from Vietnam to the United States has had to go through a second the country and most the time they have to send you out cousin who were living in France at that time, and then they have to forward those letter back to us. It was many many years. I mean I

31:48 It was a long time and then I finally just you know accepted my reality and I just

31:57 Gave up the fact that I will never ever see my parents again and my mother actually passed away.

32:08 When I was in my in my twenties, but when she passed away she you know, I was I was sad, but you know, I'd I didn't want accepted that so I never

32:21 Thought of her that she has she has gone. My father actually didn't come over until 18 years later when I'm almost 30 but you know, so I never did get to see my mom again, but you know that this strange thing is it's funny that we recording. This is time. Tomorrow is Mother's Day, but you know, I knew I got foot letters that she has passed away but

32:53 You know in my mind, you know, the mine is just so funny. We are things I knew that that one day. I'm going to go back to that house and she will be waiting for you. And so in 1995, I actually

33:13 Actually went back into wanting to see that she was still there waiting for me, even though I know that she she has gone.

33:26 My mind and accept the fact that you have passed away.

33:52 Until I went to the old house, and she was not there and she was not waiting for me. And so

34:03 We went through a Graves and that's finally.

34:08 Not me, but my my my brain my mind accepted that she's dead. She's gone.

34:29 Yep.

34:31 That's that's when I accepted that. She's she she's dead.

34:41 But when your father came over he was able to see how his children and his family had gone through you were an engine before you graduated from Virginia. Yeah. I actually just grew up and I became an engineer exactly what he wanted me to do funny. He came over he was much older then but you know, I didn't recognize him. And of course he didn't recognize me cuz he he was still looking for a boy 12 years old 11 years old boy and he didn't recognize me but I recognized his eyes and that no matter how the age you when you look into someone's eyes. You can will always recognize them, especially your parents anyway, but you know, when when he came over it was such a difficult time for me because almost in 18 years and in my mind too that he was dead and I did not want

35:41 2

35:43 Cuz he was older and I did not want to go through his second nap cuz I'm you know naturally people going to die again. So I did stay away from him for the longest time, but I'm glad he came over and when at the time when he passed away, it wasn't difficult as I thought it would be I thought

36:07 That dumb

36:09 Having to witness my your parents pass away was was really a

36:16 A growing process as I visit him anytime in the hospital and I recognize the fact that that was me that was me years from now when I when I have to confirm my own, you know death that that would be me laying on that bed the hand that I'm holding the hand that I see will be my hands. So I see the connection and the circle that something that is very is very full.

36:47 And you worked in engineering for number of years, but then you decided to

36:53 Go back to the library and work for the library. Why did you do that?

36:58 Well, you know, I was an engineer for about 15 years and I you know, I was very good at math. So, of course that's the thing that that your counselor your school at 4 tell you to go in and do it to you know, what that would be your career. And also my my dad, you know growing up in Vietnam, you know, Asian parents are so funny. They are excited. What you going to do when you grow up, you know, I was going to be an engineer my brother's going to be an architect and my sister would all get marry and you know to a rich husband or whatever. They are already had planned for them for it, but

37:40 Anyway, I I I wanted to engineering I am I'm a graduate of Virginia Tech. I had a bachelor in industrial engineering operation Operation research and I worked in that field for about 15 years. Now being new to this country is logically you want to do something that would do, you know help you earn a living and Engineering make good money. I mean I was making a lot more money than I know how to, you know spend you know, being being such a poor immigrant, but I enjoyed it. It was challenging it. It's it help me with my logical thinking I travel to many places around the world. I work for company, you know where I got to travel all over the United States into Japan to Europe to Mexico on my project, but somewhere along the line, I I know it was

38:40 Right for me. It's just not something that I

38:46 It's not meaningful work for me. I'm sorry to say that and I don't mean to put down an Indian any Engineers out there, but for me to find something that has connection with my experience in life and I look back at the time. I realized how much the public library has helped me as an immigrants as a child who came from this country and how much it meant to me how much it helped me become morphle and aware of of an American. So I decided to do have a career change and I started out in public library, very close to where I live at just a support staff and just kind of all this is a crazy idea. I just want to see it and then I did that for a while and then I'm hooked. I mean, I I I mean it is something that that drive me I get up in the morning. I want to go to the library. I want to work in the

39:46 I want to help other people find information and then a few years ago. I actually receive a scholarship to go back and get my Master's in library science. And I'm right now I am an assistant branch manager at DeKalb County Public Library here in Atlanta, Georgia in the Clarkston Community. Where is there? They are a lot of America lots of refugee a lot of kids that I can identify with and see what they're going through but Public Library need you know the support that we not

40:28 It's so important to American society. So important to a democracy is needs the support of everybody to help keep it alive. Even though right now we information is everywhere on the internet, but it's not like coming into a public library and talk to a librarian and who can give you information factual information without expecting you to buy anything back. So I hope people who listen to this program would continue to support that Public Library all that they can and keep it alive and through the next century and beyond.

41:14 You and I met

41:17 On March

41:23 You know you not met.

41:28 February 17th in 2007, Saw your handsome face. I was so struck by your freckles.

41:40 Which I always see is Stars.

41:44 And it's like a map of the universe. Yeah, and I don't know how common that is among Vietnamese, but when you were talking about the Stars you saw an airplane.

41:58 Make me think of that.

42:02 Yeah, I actually have the freckles are a gift from my mother. I'm

42:11 I think I'm the only one who got the freckles in our whole entire family. So she's she's always with me not in my heart, but also on my face.

42:25 So good to hear your story Dan. Thank you.