Martha Shen and Carrie Shen

00:04 Hello, my name is Carrie Glaser Shin. I'm 58 years old. It is May 21st, 2016. We are here at storycorps Atlanta and I'm here with my life partner and love mortician.

00:23 My name is Marta Shannon and I am 50 years old today is May 21st. 2016. We are at the storycorps booth here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I'm here with Carrie my partner.

00:39 Walmart, I'd like to get started. Just the introduction of who you are where you're born and your upbringing. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. I am a native New Yorker via Argentina via Taiwan. So my parents immigrated from Taiwan to Argentina to have a better life because

01:01 They can come to the US when I was born. There was a restriction against Asians and so I was born in Argentina and my parents named me Martha because they wanted me to assimilate and they didn't wanted me to have Chinese name and then we moved up to Manhattan to the Spanish Harlem when I was about five and a half and didn't know a lick of English, but got into first grade and started learning. I was thrown right in their New York. My mom's brother was there and he encouraged us to come up. He had studied law in Japan and came to the university. I think it was Oklahoma or something like that in the Midwest and flunked out of his first year of law school and so he came to New York to actually be a cook. So he said, you know, what coming up here and

02:01 Did you grow up? What did your parents do to survive in New York? Well, my parents came to the United States with $200 in their pocket and they were business people. So they had a check a Chinese restaurant in Buenos Aires in Argentina. And when in New York my dad started by making noodles in Chinatown and my mom was a seamstress and they scraped up enough money to buy a Chinese hand laundry back. Then they had these trying times laundries York Avenue and 83rd. We was Lee's Chinese hand laundry. Do I understand? You worked your your brother sister? And you all worked in the laundry. We we did we walk to school PS 158 and then we would come home and work as for me being the youngest.

02:52 I was always different person. So they like to put me in front because I guess I could speak better my brother or sister or a little older when they came and being the youngest a thought, was cute for me to go and speak and and that's why you don't do any laundry home, right? That's how you get a chance to see that's why I will then you went on and tell us about your education and how you ended up here in Atlanta. Yeah, so I be the youngest my parents ran out of money. So my sister wants my why you my brother went to a state in the NCAA.

03:32 I am going to school and Montessori philosophy and then they did and they said no you have to have a career path. So I change to accounting and at the time of brother was struggling so we went to look for something for him and Chiropractic seemed like a good idea. So we went to Life College here and I came to Atlanta to help him after law school like is that was typical it in for many children? Who is the Asian Heritage either law doctor or engineer had to be a perfect had to be a profession because that and then you could you could really sustain yourself interesting what I came here by waiver letter for job. I was born in New England just North of Boston and my childhood really was very happy. We was the country suburbs my mother would open the door in the morning so you can go out and play we did would run off.

04:32 The woods come back for dinner. So I didn't have responsibilities you did and it was wonderful at 14. We left Boston there and came down to Florida. And then I ended up the University of Florida live in Jacksonville 10 years. I love the Ville auction. And that's where I came out in the 80s. I love to Surf & Bike. I was very athletic kind of freewheeling and finally opportunity opened up and I ended up here in Atlanta. And so you're in Atlanta I'm in Atlanta is back in 1992. And how did we meet? How do you remember that? I remember in January of 1993 we both I guess we're the same place at the same time. So there was a a potluck the first it was always the fourth Saturday of the month. It was called woman in cahoots or wink for short and I I don't remember if you came late or I came late.

05:32 To that party by remember I came with Teresa and Teresa and I were part of a coming-out group that was facilitated here in Decatur Georgia, and we went to the party and I noticed you immediately. I mean you were vibrant just had full of energy and kind of like the jokester India in the room. I think you're like my might wish is what you said. Okay. Well, I will that help doesn't hurt. Okay was your

06:04 So I noticed you right away. I think was we are funny hat night. And you had on a black Speedo Lacey had I thought it was kind of interesting and I remember I asked you where you're from. And you said New York. I got her. She's been around. Yeah. Okay well and well after many many phone numbers that I got that night. Yes, I made sure I kept you order and and then we get started and tell me then how things went along those first two years after we met well, we didn't move in the second date like the original U-Haul analogy, but I think after many many months maybe nine months. Yes, we had started to partially move in together you had lived in Kennesaw and I live in Smyrna. So I so far away and then we I guess that I took an opportunity in New York and we kind of had a little falling-out for a couple years sure and we got we got back.

07:04 I remember one night. I drove up to the plant to Anheuser-Busch and professed my love to you to remember that. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I think it was on the 15 minute break, you know, we had quite a few things and I thought it was great. It was wonderful as bad as you know, I remember thinking yeah, this is the woman I want to be with she's everything I want to be with you because I was looking 35 at that time and so little bit older and yes, I knew you were the woman I want to spend my life with so

07:37 What inspired you Martha to go and make a declaration of love in the middle of the work day. Well, I I think I had it. She didn't even know I was coming and I wanted.

07:50 I'm not one to show a lot of emotion and I think sometimes that's frustrating for you carry his in it more emotional. Yeah, and so, you know when we've learned that how we are and accept each other. Can I think that that time I felt I needed to show that I needed to show emotion. Then I'm glad you did hun. I'm glad I did was wonderful you then started in coming from a family that had their own business thing boss has made the wrong way in the world you then follow that path and tell me about how you get into financial planning.

08:28 Well, unfortunately, I wasn't as exciting. I wish I could the lightning bolt struck, but when I was in law school and you know, the story My in 30 or lost my parents came to me and said that we made a decision when I don't know we even help us on do it and we put all our money down on this piece of land in Flushing New York. And so I stood the

08:54 The guy that Builder and he had already left for tywan. And so it was too late and they lost all their money. And so I was still working as an accountant and I want to pursue law but I think in a few years later, I realized that when someone said you would be good with people you're good with people and you're good with you care about them and you're good with numbers. So maybe be a financial planner and I answered an ad of all things to American Express financial advisors because they were actively seeking people in the gay lesbian community. And to me I was just starting to come out and I said, you know what I want to be out they won. I don't want to be in the closet. Like I wasn't CPA firm and an AT-AT AIG. So that's how I started backing sure. You remember that those mirrors it was tough. I was working a rotating shift at night 12 hours. Yes, come home. You would have already left. We didn't see each other for days on on aiur work.

09:54 Night shift one time and day shift. The other was crazy. Right? I was always tired and you have those were tough hears and tell me about you you we also did real estate for us. We this was right after the Olympics and I think I got a bug because I mean frankly we were a survival mode at that time. I wasn't making a lot of money starting out because you never do and so we took a class. I took a class and kind of said, let's go come along and drove all the way. I don't know where we drove we drove to Florida or something. But yeah, we started flipping homes. Yes, and that's kind of the early years flipped homes. You got your business going. I eventually quit, you know my job. We did it full time. But also during the time tell me about our thoughts of the future and family what what if we walk we both wanted to see I think it wasn't until maybe ten years into a relationship. So I'm thinking it was around late 90s that we started having conversations or early 2000s.

10:54 Start having conversations about family and at that time I was already in my late thirties and but we were thinking, you know less look into where the point where we're not in survival mode anymore. We're kind of sustainable. So let's look into how to start that and because I was older and unable to conceive or have children older. We went to look for sperm donors and wanted to start artificial insemination. And so we're looking at sperm donors and tell me some of the things we were looking for no question. They had to be well educated first and foremost, right? I don't know if you can tell from the profile they're open-minded, but I think that was a quality or value. I think I we wanted someone to be more like you if it I was going to be the ones to come to be so possibly Caucasians with the idea of someone looking closer to both of us combined, right? And so then what did we go for?

11:54 We ordered some sperm and we went to 2 or 12. We started as I Tech here in Atlanta and it was kind of a tough road wasn't for you and emotional rollercoaster. Yeah, I mean

12:12 I think with every single try.

12:16 It was this anticipation and then when it didn't win it wasn't blue or what. If I don't remember if Louis was which one was says that you're pregnant, but it wasn't it was like a let down and then you're kind of like you and yourself up against sure and you knew other gay couples or women that got pregnant on the first try. I know I hated them it was tough for any woman who is difficult. So after about 10:20, I think it was a brown. Yeah. It was over a course of several years because that we didn't do it every single month. I don't think I'm mentally or emotionally was ready for that. Right? So after 10 to 12 times, we we send you know, maybe we have to look at other avenues. I think at that time I was hitting close to forty you went to a fertility clinic and I like here in this country but in Canada

13:16 Yep, we did all that to look at to look at it in detail. Sure expensive. I mean being a bad person when they're the math was okay. You have a 20% chance of conceiving and this is going to cost you about 35 to $40,000 each time. And I said the mass doesn't seem to tell me then. What was the next step since you felt like you could not conceive part of it was a little bit of a

13:47 Acknowledgement that this dream that I had was going to not be to have my own child's our biological child p.m. So we start looking at options and we looked at at the auction not only here but we looked at tryna remember and we looked at the South America Guatemala and we pursued open adoption Avenues here right now. And then I think at the time to have these laws where single woman kinds of don't run so they had just passed that when we were ready and I think they're thought was they didn't want and

14:36 The first tell me about some of the difficulties with some of the adoption agencies and kind of what went on because you are a single mother quote quote or lesbian pursue the single mother Avenue because I think back then this was the bush-era and there was tremendous amount of there was an acceptance. Yes yet of gay parenting and so we looked at some agencies and we actually put with that matched if you remember with this agency in Arkansas, Arkansas and they matched us with this woman in Oregon and we already had a name picked out to remember the names. Yes. Yes, Nathan Nathan Richard gave us that mean. Yes.

15:29 And

15:33 I guess the warning signs were there right but I shited when you spot them because we were I think we were in the clouds when we got match send the warning signs were when we asked he can we speak to the to the birth mother and they said oh she's not available or you can't and then apparently when she comes when she gave birth. They said that she decide to keep it but who's to know if that was real or not? And so what happened to I believe it was adoption Advantage what happened with that money and wealth at Cincy money is gone and and and the agency in fact the state of Arkansas Ashley brought suit against them because they've been doing these fraudulent things with kids and parents in this like praying upon parents who want to be I want to adopt. Yeah. Yeah. It was tough tough tough. Tell me how We Came Upon a woman and Gloria Hawk who was really an adoption coordinator. How did

16:33 We get in touch with her. I think it wasn't in a referral. It was a referral from someone and she was not an agency, but she was with a coordinator so she knew of agencies and she coached us through and she's a very

16:53 My understanding she's of the Christian faith and she's very religious. But she doesn't use that to discriminate against us, which I really appreciated and she's like the truth the real Christian, you know, it supposed the ones who were in the sleeve and she can't remember if she hadn't quite a few gay parents lesbian and gay men parents who had adopted Pryor and we're showing us and all this child has three now and I'm being so proud of that impact in their lives and she coached us through how to do a a letter remember the birth mother birth mother letter letter. I need a cigar sale. We got all the pictures pictures together describing your life why you wanted the children because you had to drop still is a single mother I could not be in the picture and that was so I know that was hard for you, but I knew it's a game you play right and you're not deceiving anyone but most people know you do what you have to her family lawyer.

17:53 The wonderful woman tell me about the phone call on things. And what was that? We were up at lake lake house 2009. This was snow on Thanksgiving 2008 and we were on the lake house house and had just come back to Atlanta and back then they had answering machines. Right? And so we turn on the if there was a message blinking with turn on the answering machine and it was Gloria and she said that we have this woman was interested in your profile and we immediately called her back, but she had left that message like 3 days before yesterday best cell phone cell phone service up there. I think it was a little child because it was another Market.

18:45 And all things another worry about the other birth mother called and said she called and when I spoke to her finally she said yeah, it was funny because they get me hooked up with this other woman named Marta and I started asking her questions like that you grew up in New York and she would say no, I grew up in Chicago or did you are you a lawyer? No, I meant I'm a teacher and a second. Maybe this is a little false Identity or whatever, but I think it was cute. That's finally we were able to until she had a real sense you are lesbian, but because we had to play by the rules are. I guess and we were both

19:42 Why went down to visit her in Orlando and we were both talking about politics and she was kind of you're both talking about anyway, she was telling me it is so many words that she was very Progressive and liberal that her mom loves Ellen and all of these things that that it was okay to eat at that hip saying yeah, and you went down you met her know. Did you meet the birth father on The Strip for me about him? The reason why she was considering adoption. What are the time? He was in jail the birth father and I guess he had gotten fired and drank a little bit too much that night and you know, Calica a domestic situation.

20:38 And yes, I didn't get a chance to meet for nausea that night right now better not be what was his Heritage is Mexican and he came as a late teenager and stayed so is undocumented, but he

20:57 Yeah, he was a Mexican I guess of Indian Mexican descent, but unfortunately during that time, you know, he was incarcerated. So so tell me then we agreed and you that had to go down and sign paperwork with some of the lawyers about that paperwork specifically.

21:23 Related to the laws in Florida about adoption at the time. Yeah. So I guess Florida still had some restrictions against gay people adopting and that probably spend from you. Remember Anita Bryant's in the back pain and they had those laws. I I don't remember and I think she really set into motion a lot of movements and people getting angry and the gay community coming together and it was a big incentive yasso back. Then you had to sign this affidavit and after they've yet to check I am not gay. I am not a homosexual and so I did and say what did you say? I said you weren't at that moment. Since last night, so, okay.

22:23 But you know what we had to you. Do you have to do what and we knew it was wrong anyways to make her so and you almost said that many people to sort of look the other way from Ours from the eye when we get home study come in the psychiatrist or therapist and to the lawyers. It was kind of wink wink it was willing, but thankfully the folks that we worked with all understood.

22:49 The Dilemma that I think a lesbian and gay parents face where you pet you legally sometimes aren't able to do it but what will allow you to do that and they know that hey will be just as good as anybody else around errands, right? So absolutely but it wasn't for a scary time. I remember that I actually went and moved out of the house. I remember because it so when the home inspection came in or home study came in I was not living in the home and I was very scared of the time maybe being a little older and understanding I had friends were booted out of the military teaches fired. We knew of people whose told him. Maybe we'll take it away because they were gay and lesbian. It was a lot more frightening for me. And I I really don't think I

23:39 If I think about it, you just had to steal yourself yet. I'm going to do what it takes to have. My children did get her family exactly go.

23:51 Yes, the worst case scenario was they would find out that Martin? I have been partners for many years and the agency said you committed fraud and they would take away and take away Matthew our son who is our first son. We need to Matthew and or even bring charges against us and Marta having a professional degree as a lawyer.

24:13 Which eye and Martin having a professional degree is a lawyer would she lose her license?

24:20 Add wood would I you know, I would lose the chance to adopt and and their other cases that were brought to court and I was terrified of being kind of aren't we might we were but we knew that at this point they kind of exhausted. I think the guilt Ace was just coming into the four fronts and Gil was that was the Miami case with the two gay men who adopted these foster kids. I wanted to adopt a foster kids. And and so I think that that last hurrah for the Discrimination was there so I kind of saw that we didn't really have fitting had the resources to fight us nor do we want to to challenge at either relies on the Fly under the radar and be parents we get to the day to be born ya like February 14th, and we get a call and they said you called me up and said he had the birth mother. She's 4 centimeters dilated.

25:20 But she doesn't think she's going to have the baby. I want Marta card for that, and you just looked at me as like she's not going home. We better get down there and then I'm glad that you did. Yeah, we already had a bag packed in the car drove 7 hours drive like we did get me tickets. No, no we can so I can we got there safely in Orlando to the hospital you got out and tell me about walking into the respond because we can do it together because I was obviously the one eye closed and and Dawn countries mom. I walk in the door and Don says

26:07 Hey Mama, your son. I know every time you say that line and she hands me Matthew and I just hold him in my arms. You know, it's them magical when I think a deadline.

26:20 It's so hard not to cry it out. Here is your son after all you and I went through.

26:27 Heartache the ups and downs, you know, they have something to say that was just it's just magic is so wonderful. They were still there three days that there was three very nerve-wracking days, right? Yeah. Yeah and then even be on the three days or was I guess was 3 days and then we had to wait until they gave us the ability to cross Interstate. Well, we when you I was at the hotel and you finally brought Matthew to me and I looked at him and I haven't seen a newborn in a while. I thought oh my gosh, he's ugliest I remember you said that is one ugly baby mother's love you. No answer when I call babies have yeah. Yeah little little while and I remember how terrified I was, you know, I did I couldn't sleep there.

27:27 He was I was nervous thinking, you know fall asleep, but he kept me up. He was hungry. He was a hungry little one and we then spent two weeks and because that was the rules right with my sister down in Ingleside and Pauline already had dinner mom is my mother Marjorie and my sister Pauline my mother. I was one of five children, so she had plenty of experience and my sister also had a child so she but but I remember that and then

27:59 We came back and I think being first time parents you always like only time I doing it, right my mom came down remember and she spent a few months with us and her job was to ensure that he got chubby. So she your best him nonstop and would not let up, I think there may be culturally their belief is the first few months is so important for them to to have all the nutrition what I remember your mother coming down and how wonderful she was and the boys nail color apple and she would get that bottle at 3 times but the doctor recommended set him down on her lap rub is here and she made him finish that body and that are good at it and he was 11 Shelby little baby.

28:59 Deleted blanket in a lot maybe because as a young child, she was one of 11 children died in from those things, but she was a wonderful caregiver. I did not see today. I remember so tell me how we named Matthew Matthew I think had significance because he really was a gift from God and Matthew means a gift from. I remember you like that name is very special. No tell me about a year later a little less than a year later you get another phone calls me Matthew had not turned one yet and Country calls me and said Marta I'm pregnant again. And would you like I would like for you to adopt this child and I froze I said, let me call you back cuz I didn't know what to say. I mean we weren't ready. I wish I think what I had

29:59 All planned out that in two and a half years we both have another one. Yeah, can I space them out but life doesn't happen. That way doesn't tell me know if I call you baby. What did you say?

30:11 That's very to you need to keep and Company. It was a boy or girl yet. Did we did not in fact that and I think we were hoping to Ashley the doctor said see that it's a boy have to say anything else. But you know Richard has been and we need Richard after you're my soulmate soulmate Richard who I've known for many many years and we both love dearly.

30:59 That was our favorite scene to another but I love Richard. He passed and much too soon in life. And so yes, we want to be walked in his namesake. He was so happy such a wonderful part man and Glenn's U2. I still remember we still keep in touch with Glenn and it was just Richards birthday. He was made me so we're happy to have changing Richard Richard Richard. Unfortunately was born premature. Remember pick me up. Why was he born premature? Well, she was she had lot of pain fibromyalgia and she was taking some hydrocodone and some other meds to kind of help her cope and Anna doctor had her on methadone. I just think he had her take get off some of that.

31:46 And ultimately he knew that she can continue that way so we induced him at 35 weeks. I believe he is and he was he was so tiny who's like 4 lb 15. It was funny because Heather if he's best friend whom, you know adopted the other boys. She said to me more time here come here cut the umbilical cord is I was able to cut the umbilical cord. It was just meant it was one thing and I always wished I could have been in with you and even good friend and her mother sick, but the law was still in place and I was so afraid I didn't even want to put things on Facebook at all. So at the time I was not the second parent yet. We that's not do that for fear that we didn't want to jeopardize anything. So I was still at the second parent and I remember Richard stay in the hospital for two weeks. Actually. He was in withdrawal withdrawal.

32:46 And that he was quite the strong tell me the story about I want to tell the story because he just had a projectile poop that flew across the room as a nurse looked at me and said you're not going to have a problem with this one. That was a strong one and it was just so cute. And you know, so true. I mean that even though he's play some classical strong and we finally bring Richard home all the paperwork everything done. What about

33:28 Myself becoming a second-parent remember that got your day in March when we are whatever we want and what we were actually live in the county that we could do it and we went down there and

33:44 A little bit of it. So it is fuzzy. But I remember how joyous we were afterwards was unbearable most we've been together, but this was just a legal documentation and also right before that. I change my name you did laser, right? So we would all your family and I felt really proud We were a family in all respects, right but without that marriage document and I remember that I remember that wonderful day. That's all got your day because I think it's an old fashioned term one. Yes.

34:25 Our boys are home and wonderful to Growing Up great. What are some of your hopes and dreams for your two boys in this world now, and now that they can if they were gay they could get Mary seems like every generation says the world is difference, right? But I have some fears for them or this world is going

34:48 But my hope is that.

34:53 They are caring.

34:57 Is that they always know that?

35:01 They came from Love and that we really wanted them. But my hope is that they become men, who are

35:12 Caring for others and who

35:16 Learn the traits that hopefully we can still upon them. What what are some of your hopes for them?

35:25 Well, you know the same thing like any parent you want your children to be happy and healthy to make a difference with other people around them in life. And the world is a scary place. Now. We you know, we've we've come to the point. We we do have marriage equality for us.

35:46 Just a long way to go and I hope my sons grow up in a world that is much less prejudiced that way and you know, whatever they want to become they don't need to become lawyers or doctors whatever they do to make them happy, you know, it's funny because I think being successful is not a professional anymore. I think more important if we can important them the ability to get along with others and I think that is a PhD in life, you know, if you will because then if they can get people to like them then I think they'll be okay so, you know, but it's still a scary world. I do want to mention one thing.

36:28 We are formed in a way our own family your parents do except to hear your parents know that I'm with you and yelling out at 24 years old Asian people could be gay right so it is just my father wrote me at you Noah biblical letters for starting to rain and so

37:11 We can make our own family and we've known as what we've known each other and I think you and I knew it was important to include male role models and people are more love to be at the Clinton saying of it takes a village right? I mean, it's true it does and I think more love doesn't it is always positive so they they are really like their uncle's the boys take vacations with them. They're over the home we make dinner and we made our own family because being gay sometimes for many gays. They're not accepted by their families or communities not being able to get married. We wanted to do it without that piece of paper and I feel like we've been very successful doing that to you know, we made it work hasn't

38:11 Easy, it's a it's a we're still on the journey, right? We're still no guarantee stamp times and honestly time does speed up as you get older, you know, so and and I'm very proud of what we've done because we survived a lot, you know the locket it's been a lot and so we're blessed to be here is how I feel so what do you think of the next 23 or so? I don't know I have to do more gardening of the boys grow up to be good man. And you know, it would just feel like I'm going okay and 23 years. Matthew will be 30. It's a lot and you know, this is one thing I mentioned to I hope our boys do love us and come back. Your mother said something like, oh, you will never girl boy just run off but girls will care for you. And so will you know for like well, well, let's just hope they're gay people be gay and you love your parents and a very dedicated to them. They live with us part of the time with

39:11 Very grateful for and I think our boys will be the same because we we don't want we could all we can do is our best right just like the rest is up to God. That's right. That's right one day at a time Carpe Diem. Absolutely. So this is going to great great chat with you here. I'm so glad that I know you came in on the red-eye last night Martin, so you're know you're tired, but I'm glad we were able to do this. I'm glad to will Amy. I love you.