Autumn Alexander Skeen and Karen Troianello

00:00 Autumn Alexander Skeen I'm 63 years old. Today is Friday, July 17th 2020. This is Walla, Walla, Washington.

00:15 My conversation partner is Karen. Troianello.

00:19 A very long time friend and colleague

00:24 I'm Karen. Troianello. I'm 62. It's still July 17th 2020. I'm in Yakima Washington talking to Autumn Alexander Skeen who is as she said a longtime friend and former work colleague and

00:41 A best bud

00:48 So Autumn, it's been 20 years since Washington State and acted Anton's law which was named in honor of your son a 4 year old who was killed in a traumatic car accident.

01:05 24 years ago

01:08 You and Anton were on your way to your family cabin. You were going to stop and see us. So Anton and my son Peter could play and we could catch up cuz you been in Japan where you your husband Tom was working.

01:25 Anyway, instead my husband and I

01:31 Rushed to the hospital.

01:36 Elsa terrible reality set in

01:40 As we came to the hospital there was a state patrolman who was just leaving and we said

01:51 Were you there? What happened?

01:54 And he shook his head and expressed sorrow and said seatbelts. Just don't hold little kids.

02:05 So it's so hard to look back at this and yet it's something we've lived with all these years.

02:13 What happened that day?

02:19 As you said we were heading out towards the cabin and Anna borrowed SUV. One of the old ones from my father and it was just an time and I and I had consciously looked at the seat belt setup in the SUV and they're only lap belts in the rear that relax shoulder belts in the front and he was beyond the normal child seat. That was a harness seat. He was 4 years old in about 50 lbs. I thought well, somebody must have tested this this must be the safest place for him. The reason I was really conscious of this was I had written a column about child passenger safety not that long ago. So I knew what the specs were supposed to be.

03:13 And so we came across and there we were on Tim Overman a stash Ridge between Ellensburg and Yakima. It's an army firing range quite desolate and they had just moved to speed up to 65. It has been 50 and they hadn't read on the shoulders and the shoulders were coated with Ash from Mount Saint Helens and

03:43 I was

03:46 In the lane two lanes and I reached down for the radio. And before I realized it we had hit the shoulder and it is the most scary normal thing to do with its called a tripping cuz you you react and when I react to try to get the vehicle back on the road quickly it it flew into the air and and here's where the only thing. I really remember at that time was that I was upside down and I thought your A-game your it is it does if I recognize what it what was going on and we rolled 3 times at 65 miles an hour?

04:36 And at that time I didn't know what it happened to Anton.

04:45 After they sort of scrape me into the ambulance.

04:50 Because I was just so blessed right behind me in the car behind me with an EMT and a nurse and so they were there and I was screaming at them from the ambulance. We can't go we can't go home without an time and I heard somebody outside in the light. Hey, there are no more survivors here.

05:14 And I wanted to I want to see.

05:18 I just couldn't believe it and I just I wanted to die. I just wanted to have a push me right back out on the highway.

05:26 So what happened? That day was an ambulance took Anton's body one way and another ambulance took mine to Yakima to Ellensburg cuz we were in Kittitas County and it was only when I woke up.

05:47 In intensive care and I looked down at the end of my bed, and there was Karen and her husband because my husband was still overseas.

05:58 And I looked like one look at Karen's face.

06:02 And she just shook her head just slightly and I just knew it was true. And I just knew it was true.

06:08 And

06:11 I just cannot tell you what that Chasm has been and how I have tried to to live and climb out of that Chasm because I was the driver.

06:27 I was a mother were supposed to protect her cub.

06:31 And I say hope so.

06:34 Even though there were things working against me, and I know I shouldn't take 100% responsibility for it.

06:42 Can I have fractured out what the things were that were working against me in? Thank God when my husband got there. He went out and walk scene and he said bottom. Nobody could have gotten out that the wheels have dug into that Ash.

06:59 Even a race car driver couldn't have kept from that over where they call it an over reaction, but it's just a reaction really to try to straighten things out.

07:11 But it it that is what happened now.

07:20 You know.

07:21 I brought out my little picture. I don't know if you can see it. This was from our visit to Japan.

07:31 Your daughter didn't even feed her and hanging on a little Japanese thing. I remember him as such a sweet little happy boy and

07:42 I was looking forward to my son having a friend. What are the things that you remember most about Anton?

07:52 Although I will say this I tell you this story every once in a while when we visited you in Japan.

08:01 You were right side outside of Tokyo right now. If you were I don't know what you were doing. You were writing something and your husband Tom and my husband Craig had gone into the city because they you know, they're guys who like to go do things. You needed a few minutes of our to yourself. And you said Anton take Karen and Peter to the park yorgos Anton it. He was messing around 3, cuz Peter was that the heater was two and a half when we went and I'm walking off into Japan by myself with these two kids had not a fear in the world and I thought this is a good kid. I'm putting my license was great. He was just such a you know, he knew where he was going. It was very safe for him. And you know, he took us to the park and I actually asked Peter today, you know.

09:00 She was 2 and 1/2 was hard for him to have the memories that we loved him to have but he said I remember being in Japan and watching The Lion King with Anton and he says I remember the park because they had ticking ticking toys somehow anyway, so we remember him as a sweet little guy.

09:23 Had a good life ahead of him.

09:25 While he was colicky, he was horrible when he was a baby scream like heck but then it's at 3 the sun came out and all of a sudden he was this very self-possessed child would do anything to play with his sister who is older but not hyper but but energetic and very interested in other people. It didn't matter whether they were Japanese or Yankees.

09:55 He just was a curious boy. And in fact, he was known for being so curious that people would give him Curious George books and stuff Curious George toys. So

10:12 Though loving he look like me and

10:19 I just

10:22 Enjoyed his bounce he I think of this one occasion where you was in preschool, and we were living on this base and my husband getting home from Tokyo was on a bicycle and we were racing to our house off base and Anton leans toward the window goes eat my shorts.

10:47 I thought he was being hysterical, you know, yeah, they play sumo wrestling with each other and he was he was fun. Yes, he was he was so you were very badly and I can't remember how long you were in the hospital but it was awhile Tom stayed with us for quite a long time. You had the memorial service for Anton in the hospital where you were still a patient and

11:33 I marveled because

11:36 You greeted everyone you were obviously.

11:41 Broken-hearted but displayed such Grace in such a tragic time. It was it was a hellish time I once so, this was summer. I guess it was actually Father's Day weekend was that with the day it was

12:07 Anyway, so in the fall, my son was back in preschool and at a nearby facility and I picked him up one day and we started to go and he said he says wait wait, I'm not strapped in and I might die and I thought oh my God, so we sat in the parking lot and cried for a minute, but when you

12:30 I don't remember exactly when you started your Crusade. But what was it that took you from grieving mother to activists we wear an activist.

12:46 Yes, I came to see the crash was in June by September this damaged arm of mine where they had to do skin grafts until I was on flame. I just I thought I've got to warn other parent. They don't know because there's no law there's found out by then. There's no law and so I was riding people.

13:14 Cuz I thought I can tell the story I can write. I'm still with enough and it would would give me a place to put the fire.

13:24 It was petitioning.

13:28 People from oh my goodness, except big public interest research group and Washington DC and I wasn't getting an answer there until I was getting really quite frustrated. So this let's see was the end of 96

13:47 By 1998. I we had to break our contract because I was in such bad shape. I had double time. They they knew I had to get home where I had infrastructure of people who can help me.

14:07 Because the loss of a child is the worst psychological pain a person human being can bear and it was ravaging so we did it and when I got back here I said, okay. Well, this is good. I can get closer and start really hammering on people.

14:32 And I got ahold finally of Safe Kids in Washington DC and is it turned out they have been looking for somebody to be the face on this issue because they were aware of the problem that the children ages 4 to 8 were not properly protected in card and even 8 to 10 because an average seat belt is made for a man at least 5 9 and about 160 lb and tell me how that is going to work for somebody. This is a real problem for for women and elders and

15:07 Anyhow I said I'm I'm willing to do it even though there at the same time. There was a sense that I was going to have to tell this story over and over again in order to move the ball down the field and they they just went right off into a meat media and Readers Digest got in touch with me first and then we wound up with 20/20 came out and it was just National media, but I think because I was barely able to keep it together and tell the story.

15:48 But at the same time I would I was pressing on was the Washington State Legislature, which he was meeting in January. So we had gotten back in the summer of 98 this all this. Of time where I was firing up again.

16:06 To do this went into the fall and teamed up with.

16:14 Children's Hospital people experts I learned that it's not enough for a mom to have a sad story. You have to nail it down with facts in the research facts were stunning at that time. They were that 4 year olds were dying about 450 of them a year and that's more than an airplane full of four year olds going down because they were improperly restrained and Automobiles.

16:41 And so I partnered up with a local Safe Kids and we got the firemen and policemen and the highway patrol and they all were willing to just help. It was just like the spelling behind pushing me forward and then we got sponsors for the bill couple Regional people and the pediatrician from the other side and I wanted up testifying before the state legislature and that was covered by the newspapers and

17:17 It it just

17:21 It was first of all, it was frustrating because I was telling them here the physics this Law whatever it has to go up to age 7 cuz that's the size of the child. That is if we're going to use this new.

17:36 Device called a booster seat that is backless that you can just sit on the seat and adult seat and it brings the shoulder belt over the clavicle and down and then the the lap belt will be over the hip bones not up in their gut and not allowing all this are between where their heads are in the top of the shoulder belt anchors at the car.

18:05 So I was saying how can we compromise this away? I really learned a lot about legislation at that point because they were saying that people won't do it people will not change. I have soccer mom complaining that it was going to be too inconvenient I had

18:23 Legislators over here in the east side of Washington state going you're just trying to Nanny us and I said look, this is not a matter of pleasing me or making me feel better. I said this is a matter of public health. This is like an immunization for the road. The car is the most dangerous place a child goes everyday and we need to do something about it.

18:47 Well, I'll be darned weight. We got it through they said it was the fastest bill that it ever been passed in Washington state and buy Mark II we were signing Anton skiing act on the lawn in front of the hospital where I have been patched together with the governor and a happy crowd of little kids. And then from there it just within that was March by April. I was being contacted to go testify before Congress On a related issue, which was the fact that the booster seats weren't only being a they first of all they weren't available in the stores. I remember combing the stores here looking for them and we just weren't there.

19:33 But they weren't being tested by the government there weren't a lot. And so that is what led into the work with another Coalition of wonderful organizations. And we got at the Anton scene act by the end of 2002 went to the Oval Office and signed it with the president and it allowed for net that you develop a child dummy. That was at least six year old size and then a 10 year old size so that they could properly test the device that we're now because ever since Washington state made this lot.

20:13 Other states are starting to get on board, but there was still no control. It was all self-monitoring.

20:24 So

20:26 That's basically what I did and when I came out of the White House it was December. I just remember the Seattle Times Reporter asking me how do you feel?

20:40 And I

20:43 Simply said that

20:45 I felt that there was some social justice now that I had done what needed to be done that this was not about glorifying patient. It was to save other parents other parents more than children is the language is so intense. It's just so intense. You never be the same and you know so much of you know, we were young mothers together. You had a Geneva's a few years older than the boys.

21:18 But you know you you're you're trusting that you're getting the right advice. You know, how do I keep my kids safe? You know, what am I doing with the shots? Like you said the immunization and you know, it it drives me nuts when people people say oh, well, I brought Road in the back of the station wagon will I did too and God we were all just lucky, you know cars cars are different. There's more traffic.

21:51 You know, you want your kids to be safe. And and we did we did have our kids at the time when they car seats were you know, you just know you had to have your kid in the car seat because that's what was going to keep them safer. And you know, the realization that nobody was thinking about kids in that little in-between stage, which is kind of a long time. You know that you are well and they had made that decision completely arbitrarily based upon what they thought the public would put up with their and I found that out. I was just pain because I think we all look to law if a gold standard end out and check the law and that they had

22:38 That they've been virtually no testing even on the three year old was

22:44 There was so much just met there. I think it's important for people to know about you Karen that you lost your father right before you were born to a car crash. I did my phone died in a car crash in a car with no seat belts and because they didn't know that that was something we had to do yet and good Lord. Do we all wear seat belts now? Yes, we do. I do the new normal. And yeah, I mean you want to be

23:20 You want to do everything you can to be safe and when it's your kids?

23:24 You know you do if that's even more even more butt and I think that's one of the reasons that I wanted to speak out at this point was that fortunately amazingly booster seats are now the new normal and I just didn't think that people realize how it happened or particularly cared that there was a boy behind it all and that they need to not just appreciate that but to use it because it's not just there for looks I know you have to go get them and they do take a lot of effort to card manufacturers have done nothing to help build out.

24:11 And we do, you know, we put a lot of trust in those because wear it. Well not as much as during the pandemic. We're not in our cars and such. What do I do if I got a lot of gas so I know it was hard for you. I mean, I think one of the things that I was

24:35 I didn't know after the crash. I thought will Autumn not want to see us because we've got this little boy that reminds her of her you do but of course everything reminds you of Anton the I can remember seeing a co-worker with his little boy who was a little bit younger than ours standing up in the front seat of his car and I thought oh my God, have you learned nothing and it's it is one of those things where you know, you look around and people make choices, but at least I can make a choice that they

25:17 But they know I mean that they know that this is something that could end terribly and if it doesn't then you're you know count yourself among among the lucky. I know it's been hard for you to

25:33 You know you go around you got you and Tom have grandchildren through Trump's daughter.

25:41 You know every little kid that goes beyond Anton sages, you know, it's a lucky person. But but we've been through it all haven't we been through it all get together and hug and when we can and because it does

26:06 Stir up every parent's worst nightmare and I lost friends because they people just couldn't bear to be around me because I reminded them.

26:17 The worst possible thing that could happen if I Karen has stood fast with me you you have stood fast with me and I mean, just even this last June on the anniversary of his death. I was a basket case and yet you you hung in there with me. You didn't make me feel bad. You didn't say it. Oh, you know get some closure girl God's will I mean anybody do that? Does that to me? And I'll scratch your eyes out. I just think you know, my God doesn't kill four year old.

26:53 But I I just so appreciate you and my sister who and my husband who?

27:00 Ride through this with me just keep hanging in there with me as well. It was you know in some ways it was.

27:09 You know what our Newsroom I should have counted if we think of how many little kids there were we were there were a lot of young parents there and

27:21 You know.

27:23 Oddly enough that one of our co-workers had been on the highway just behind you which is how we knew so fast and it because he came back and said, oh my God.

27:35 This is just happened. And so Craig ran home to me because Peter and I were sitting in the window like little puppy dogs waiting. No boil boy. Our friends are coming.

27:49 And burned in my brain is the side of my husband coming up and I thought so.

28:00 It was such a

28:02 I don't think I went to work that day. I was pretty pretty gone. But then, you know went back to work and frequently had to put my head down on my desk because I couldn't and we drive that stretch of road every time.

28:23 And

28:26 You know the ghost.

28:28 How do I do you know, I see the Happy Spirit, you know, but it's a hard thing to do.

28:37 It's gotten a little easier over the years, but I used to cry every time there was a corner on mobile on the way home.

28:48 From work everyday and I've got Corner everyday. It was just like, you know, and I told you this the other day that I can just remember you. I mean here it's been 24 years. I'm still crying.

29:05 And I can remember you must have I don't know how long you were in the hospital, but you said you said

29:14 Six weeks Karen. It's been 6 weeks.

29:17 Everyday, this is stabbed in the heart, you know, and you've come through it because that's what we that's what we all do and you did what you could we talked a little bit about the numbers the difference that you've made and I remind people of that.

29:39 Yeah, it's a welt. What is one of the more peculiar things is to discover how many saves there been cuz they people don't keep track of that as clearly. I want it working for a biomechanical engineer for a while. And so we were seeing them where parents died in his rollovers. But the child who is in a booster seat by this age came through with flying colors. Talk about a mixed blessing that nobody was really keeping track of those saves. But what we do have is that

30:16 There was a survey in 2013 the survey of the use of booster seats.

30:23 Like I said the first law which was Anton ski neck went into place in 2002. So by 2013, we now had gone from

30:36 They were 570 children the year that Anton was killed.

30:42 And the forty-seven-year-old range and buy the 2013 it was in pass. It was 291.

30:52 Feel horrible still horrible, but half of them really really really wonderful and they were doing some of that progress has been made even without a child size dummy to do the testing on now.

31:13 So what happens often with people is that when your child starts when your child starts to walk and talk like a four-year-old does people ascribed characteristics to them? And thank well. What does an adult do an adult gets into an adult seatbelt and they'll be fine, but that's not the case. They're their skull don't even get together until they're 13, really they don't melt and their head stick longer the it's the head that flips forward not backwards like with adults that forward and so that's part of the reason that when they're in a booster seat that just sits on the pan of the feet and it raises them up just enough so that that lap-shoulder belt comes across their clavicle it will hold that Chester.

32:13 Call back next Eddie. You know, there's always a problem with lap belt only. We don't have a good resource for that and that unfortunately ties to a lot of people who are low-income who can't afford latest car older cars. Your car was older that you were driving that day, and there's just

32:40 You can't save everybody but good Lord. You want to try you want to try and I I think of the engineers and the people who have science science behind them that want to you know, it's like, how can we make this better? How can we you know, they do but marketing turns around and Kabob puts the kibosh on and off at one of the things that I did in this whole Endeavor was lined up as the national Safety Ambassador for a campaign that was Ford created called boost America. They were looking for a good cause and I again happened to be the the face of it.

33:28 But I got to talk to their engineers and the thing that was Mick made me both crazy and pleased with that they've known about this problem. They known about this problem for decades and yet nothing had happened and yet the engineers were saying. All right, if you just move the seat belt back just a little tiny bit will get a better angle will be able to work better with these children and marketing just wouldn't do it for them and it was

33:57 It was just a destroyed a lot of the Pollyanna in me.

34:02 Had a weighted. I mean Fury the fury is still there. And I think I'll be lucky if I live a long time because it's their well you've done you did.

34:16 You did what you could and a lot of a lot of us should be grateful that you came through the trauma. I couldn't have done it without my family. I mean if they said no I couldn't have done it because it drag them into the spotlight to and certainly my friends. Also. I just was the spokesperson for our family who felt there was something wrong that we could fix. It was just a matter of housekeeping. It just needed to be done.

34:51 And that's what it takes. It was somebody willing to willing to do it and I appreciate that because I think my son was safer.

35:01 In his in those years, you know, he was in a safer position because he probably would have been in the front seat too cuz it's some point you say. Oh, yeah, you know, so I I have admired you and appreciated you for a long time. No. No. I know it was like I said, it was just housekeeping. It just needed to be done really. Well, you know me and housekeeping.

35:32 Know it was that I think the hardest part was that on occasion people would write a letter to the editor and say oh she's just doing this to make yourself feel better.

35:44 And she doesn't really care that it's going to be a pain in the neck for all of us to move these booster things around but the little saddles are really easy. They're just now. Yeah, and that hurt that hurt a great deal and that camera crew that was following us that day one one of the anniversaries of Anton flower pulled up some footage and there was his shoe right in the middle of the median and I

36:18 I have no words for that. I know I I think of I think went I don't know how long it was before Tom. I mean he was there fairly soon the next if I 18 hours later. Later he went and walked and you know picked up crayons and stuff and I think that's what gets me when I go by because it's just, you know, our lives get scattered sometimes in these things, but you know,

36:51 I was lucky. I mean I asked I would never say I was lucky but I was lucky that my most half of all marriages end when a child died.

37:03 We have made it through and I credit Tom.

37:09 For being just

37:13 He's a good guy. He's a good guy Life Is Life is full of awful things and good things. I treasure them. I treasure them. I feel like I need to do a lot of things for and time. I carry him in my bones. So sometimes I'll do things like watching an airplane fly over when I don't really care about it, but I think he would like it so I do it for him. Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure.

37:47 I will thank you Karen. You're welcome. Autumn.

37:56 Hit this hard. It's hard. But it's it's good. If it has been a part of our lives every time I see a sunflower Rite Chicopee then will show up when you least expect them. And you take your comfort where you can that's right. I'm okay.

38:23 Well, I love you friend.

38:26 And thank you so much will keep the story and the and the push for safety going. You've got great courage great courage to be my friend and Gregory John really? It's not easy with you good meals out of it.

38:52 So that wraps it up.

38:56 I think we did. Okay.