Avis Max and Melanie Marsh Baum

00:03 Today's date is July 15th to 20/20. I'm in Jacksonville, Florida and my partner's Melanie.

00:14 And we are here to talk to each other.

00:19 And my name is Melanie Marsh Baum and I'm 39 years old. And today is July 15th, 2020. I am in Atlantic Beach, Florida and my partners Avis and we have just met I forgot my age, but

00:48 Okay, Lindsey are you going to how would you sum up your life in 3 minutes or less or not Lindsay?

01:02 So I think the word I would use to describe my life in 3 minutes or less the starting word with each journey. I from a family of immigrants. I must first generation American born citizen parents and all of the rest of my family were born in Caribbean a mostly on the island of Jamaica also have family from Grenada and Cuba and my brother and I my younger brother and I are the first two who were ever born in the United States and throughout I grew up here in Florida, Florida natives lived in Florida. So I was about 22 and then and journey around the world and the country. I lived in my early adulthood in England and California.

02:02 And New Jersey in Ohio, and now back in Florida. So I feel like I've come full circle in my life. And it's also been a long journey of personal and spiritual growth. So I am a ordained Presbyterian Minister and I came to Ministries or the second career out of a career in the Arts. And so it's it's been a journey physically and also a journey going from being raised Presbyterian going through this. Of like an entrance the world and then back to being a presbyterian minister is my home where I grew up even though I lived in Ocala, Florida Jacksonville as well. So I'm right back where I started my journey in a lot of ways to

03:02 Okay, I am as I said 73, I have three sons and I'm from Detroit Michigan and my background is I was a teacher not for long cuz I got married and then we had my husband was married before his wife died. And so we had Michael who is 9 months old when she died and he was three when we met and married and then we journey but we stayed in the United States. We went from Detroit to Kalamazoo, Michigan to Toledo, Ohio to Atlanta to New Jersey to back to Ohio and Chicago and then my husband retired. And so we ended up in Florida after trying to decide where we're going to be.

04:01 No, that's how we ended up here and I was raised Catholic, but I'm more of the ilk we're all in this together. So and people can children choose which or they're going to use the were all in the same boat. Yeah. It's interesting that we have some connections to my personal political views. And what's most important as an issue for me is what my political values. I think I would start off by saying our

04:51 Fairly liberal and I feel like the important issue for me is not necessarily like a specific political issue the issue of wanting to make as much space at the table and room in our communities for people of All Sorts as possible. So I have in my own life been in a lot of communities that a lot of different types of people a lot of different ways that people live their lives in ways that families luck and ways that boy says people have made a batch file to move through the world and I think there is room for all of that and so my political values I think a line with the idea of creating as much space for people to be who they are.

05:51 As possible and To Live and Let Live. I totally agree that I'm really sort of an independent in middle of the road and it really depends on actions More Than Words at end.

06:16 I just think that everybody.

06:19 Everybody deserves a fair shake and that's not happening all the time. And I think unfortunately power corrupts, you know, no matter where it's at and that's what we have to be aware of. My thing is is that we all need to have our best life and that we in our main focus is

06:44 A person is to help each other. I mean my mind that's the main purpose of Our Lives is because we don't we can't get through this without ourselves. We all have different ones but

06:59 You know, I just

07:02 I don't want to get stuck in place.

07:17 Do you want to you want to take the next question the moment?

07:24 You know, I was thinking about this the other day my parents and one of I'm the oldest of five kids and four brothers and all my brothers stayed in Detroit and

07:39 My dad was somewhat of a racist but I don't I don't think of him as that way. He owned a gas station and and the Eastside of Detroit and so I don't know when my political so I think they were Democrats. I don't even remember. I think they were Democrats but

08:04 My belief, I think it's just from probably similar to yours in that even though yours is even more diverse. I envy your opportunities of other countries, but is that

08:19 You know, we are all individuals and you know, we are going to disagree but that's part of life and it's I think it and I think the biggest best Solutions are made when you come from those two places that one thinks they're both think they're both crazy and the come into a creative solution. And so I don't know there wasn't a moment. I think, you know, if I was going to say anyting is that of seeing around the world the terrible situation that people people around and even hear that people are in in, you know, we need to

09:03 Come together in a sense of community rather than I'm right and you're wrong kind of scent.

09:14 You know and so it's there really isn't anyone. I guess the biggest thing would be is to see the the terrible things that could happen if he going what we can do to it.

09:25 Help that for sure for sure and I think

09:30 Army I feel like there was like a distinct moment where I realize that like my political ideas either were shifting or had shifted dramatically from the from the place where I was I was raised. So I grew up in Ocala Florida, which is like no other state ferry World very agricultural eminently white and I grew up in this immigrant family and was very very conservative. So I mean like so much so is to say the words like Democrat and liberal were like dirty words and leave early 90s. And so it goes like the Clinton era was the era that I most distinctly remember as like politics was and

10:30 Remember growing up during that time like these horrible horrible people like criminals. And how do you message in our household was always like these criminals are running our country and it was shocking to me when I got out I moved out of house and like Siri always an early post college early twenties time frame and I was I was deeply embedded in the Arts. I was a dancer and actor that was my first career studying. I have a BFA in theater and dance and so I was around these creative people and living this kind of avant-gardes where to place and suddenly and day as we were watching the political debates around the 2008 election. I think when Obama was elected I suddenly was like,

11:28 Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I might be out to my family in this is our way as being like not a conservative and not altered my relationship with my family was my father who is very a political not even an event pay attention to politics put my mother very much. So and she was like the the strongest influence in my childhood child-rearing she was like it was like you you could I had stabbed her in the heart you realized. What is Divergence my own political view to take in stores.

12:25 But we do our best that we we love each other. Velez.

12:36 Yeah, that that is interesting mine. You know it everybody balls and you know, sometimes you know, we're all different, you know, but it is I wish we could get through with that. I mean I have three sons and one of them is more liberal than the others but you know, I think you know, we are partly responsible for the troubles. We listen to each other and I wish we even as individuals could

13:17 Creatively come to Solutions, but the problem is is that in my mind is that the you know, the politics and the News sent either way, it doesn't help us and that went when we vote for in a one person or another. It's one person isn't

13:42 Just one thing and so I think you have to look at and I don't think anybody's looking at and we are given the opportunity to either because they get a lot more. You know, they get more bang for the buck. They're going to have people watch TV. They're going to have people I totally agree. It's complicated. Everything is Nuance in the the world like system, but we are apart of benefits when they try to convince us that every single issue is right or wrong black-white us or them and there's so much gray area we all exist and we can't escape that but we are trained to try to say either you're on my side or you're not

14:42 Is it a place where we can go together or we are led to believe that there is no we can come together when they're probably are a lot of places of Common Ground. There isn't a lot of incentive to try to find those places and how you know, that's what I love about this opportunity is that I think that would be a lot more if there were more opportunities like this week. You know, I've often thought it would be great to have like at the library, but you know where you could come together with one issue and from all sides and talked about it and come to a resolution, but you know it and everything that's gone, but

15:42 You know, but on the other hand sometimes, you know libraries and places public. They're probably hesitant. I haven't addressed this to them, but they're hesitant because you know, people can get crazy, right? You know, I wish there were some way that we could have you don't even have to be a cool to have something like this virtual work. Nobody can do any harm.

16:13 Okay, this is a problem we had what is you as a group? How can you solve that problem? And when that be cool, if you did have you know dozens of these around the country and urban cities listen to and you know shared Solutions like you said Melanie is that you know all the powers that be don't

16:48 Profit by that

16:51 People don't you not like what the news which I don't watch TV news anymore because it's just so biased or the other and it's murders and me and we know who's voting on anyting in Tallahassee head of time. Do we you know anything's substances that we could you know that too and I mean I called as much as I showed it to the government were to ever know anybody who I have a question with butt or information. I'd like to come by but

17:28 It's not fostered. I don't know how we get there. Either have an opportunity like this to do something that feels In This Moment a little subversive like we may not think of ourselves as well as big radical right now, but kind of radical stabbed feel like to talk to somebody who is he was different and and not

18:10 Talk to them with the goal of getting them to join your size up away from the dark side and light comes with the light there is that there is that space than you know, we can all occupied you not need it and have it be neither side. We happy. Yeah, right and just pizza.

18:38 Okay, there's another question here. You want to try it says something about my beliefs that you just have to understand each other's like right now.

18:56 Gosh, I don't know if you said something from two mines for you.

19:05 You know.

19:09 Not anything specific question is is that with on the you know, and I don't like to do this because there but it's the way it is it is that how can we

19:34 Change song helping people on a mass situation without no because the problem is with one of my problems with it is right now is that the only money we cat is as a government is from those people at the from as people that have jobs and pay taxes and all that kind of thing grandparents on my mom's side were farmers in Wisconsin Dairy Farmers, and they were Republican. And the reason they were Republican is because they worked very hard for their money and they didn't want to have someone else be spending it. They were very religious and all that kind of thing. And you know, it was a smaller community in Wisconsin has small town center and

20:33 So that is part of my concern is that so much about will let's have somebody else pay for this and I think there's you know, that is trying to make ends meet and

20:49 You know and how to get through that without feeling like you're being taken advantage of your work in the hard, but you know in and part of it, I understand you're in a part of it. I don't understand is you know, like what this black issue is that I never mind mind would think that but you know, and I guess I'm not either stupid is that people who ya even I read the paper. That's where I get my information Wall Street Journal and USA Today and I listen to NPR PBS, but mostly I'm here but

21:32 You know.

21:35 I I just lost my train of thought but you can understand about the you started to say it like something black something.

21:47 Oh that that that's it. The fact that like senators and everything had some companies that you know, they're dressed like a million bucks with just because of the color of their skin. I mean it's being stupid I guess is I didn't realize that was happening. And so I so I know there's all this by is in there, but I don't know how we can get through somehow.

22:22 Making it

22:25 Yeah, give me more opportunities by earning it that way instead of being given it and I think that's so much better for anybody psyche is to earn that money in in anyway, and I think that's why I think it's just such a shame that just because you get Medicare Medicare welfare. Is there if you get a job that pays you next to nothing then you don't get your welfare anymore. And where is to me it seems like you could have a balance here of let them keep their job that doesn't pay very much anyways and let them for two or three years have a question of giving them enough money to be able to save enough money cuz you can't, you know, unfortunately be like in the seventies, you know, you could have

23:25 Single parent raise a couple of kids on minimum wage do that now $15 an hour in some place that the cost of living is not $15 an hour, you know, but according to a cost-of-living kind of thing is it has to be minimum wage or whatever and it depends on cost-of-living. So I think that's part that's one of mine. So so the thing that is hard to understand is how it seems as though liberal politicians are encouraging people to just receive

24:11 Things from the government that other people have worked hard to earn themselves that

24:24 Yeah, I mean I can understand how that would be unfair in some ways. I suppose the way that I see it a little bit differently is that in the communities that I've been a part of I have never seen many people just

24:46 Sit back and receive things and aren't also working very hard to try to make their own way in the world. So and inform my understanding from the people that I've known who receives welfare, for example, is that many many. If not, all of them have had some type of job and find something to help the make ends meet and the point I guess of the difference in tennis owasippe if I could if you think about it, that way is like

25:23 Goes back to finish what you were saying earlier about all of us being in this together and coming at it from a perspective of my face. I understand. I've always understood our role in life as people as all being children of God as being one where we are to be seeking out the best interest in the welfare of those who are the most vulnerable and that part of our role in our job is to work hard for the good of all not just work hard for the good of our selves. So that's kind of where I come where I how I understand it and that in Ennis and from that perspective.

26:14 What we pay in taxes that goes to maybe funding programs. Maybe I don't be don't even benefit from is our way of saying as a country, we're all in this together and I believe it's important at if I can work and you know earn this amount of money. I am able to then share a little bit of what I have with someone else so that they can have enough to survive. That's just kind of my perspective on it. And how how I think about why it is we might ask people who have worked hard and earned their money fair and square some of that to somebody if some of it to the government helps fund Aid programs for people who don't have as much opportunity or who don't have as much

27:14 He or he don't have the same kind of options in life as other because we all know that like the playing field is not level, even though we want it to be even though we we think it should be.

27:29 You know.

27:31 How do we solve the problem then? You know, we been since the New Deal and this kind of thing in her history cuz we're going to get rid of poverty.

27:45 You know a country get rid of it cuz we've been doing this for a long time and yet we have, you know, terrible neighborhoods and whatever color people are terrible neighborhoods. Would you suggest I mean, I know this is like but it's so frustrating to me to think of, you know, all this money from hard-earned and then like you said most people you know of working hard and getting nothing and anywhere so, how can we fix that? I don't know. I think that part of it though has to do with a shift in our mindset because it feels like there is certain level.

28:35 Boxer breed that is built into our system that says, you know, I want to get as much as I can for me and you know, I'm not worried about anyone else and so bad. I think he didn't you how we see these huge disparities in you know, the level of quality of life in different parts of our communities in different parts of our country. And yeah, I think it doesn't necessarily always breakout along racial lines. If there are plenty of you know, this plenty of well in lots of different racially diverse communities, but that there isn't always a sense in which people think about it in terms of like even though I've got more than I need the the mindset is I still need more I still need more! Even if it's at the expense of somebody else.

29:35 Is getting less and less than lies think it helps me to think about it in terms of like it doesn't necessarily mean that I lose just because somebody else is gaining a little bit more.

30:00 There, you know and I don't you know on again. It's

30:06 Your I don't read a lot of history, but greed corrupts and all we can sometimes somehow in government not be controlling but there isn't any reason for a person to be making a thousand times more than the lowest income person of that company and liked her much money does a person need again, you know, and I mean it like the Bill and Melinda Gates, you know, they're doing wonderful things and but for years, you know, he was accused of not doing anything. He was focused on his business. So it's I don't know how

30:50 I don't know who steps in in order to help with that until you know, and again, you don't want to grab and they say that the income raised.

31:05 Disparity between the top and the bottom is just gone and I don't know what government do.

31:14 But it seems like they're the only ones that can say, you know, you make this so let's

31:20 What's change something here? But what you need? I think we need that something in between just that it's we get something done here and not have to take money out of somebody's it's about 10 minutes. What about yesterday?

31:48 Guess tell me what it was like growing up in five kid Catholic Family or brother. It was we lived in Erie. That's the Eastside of Detroit. That was very affluent. But we were in the we lived in a three-bedroom. What was the two bedroom Bungalow my dad finished off the top floor for my brother's so it was wonderful. I mean we it was a community. That was nice. We had a community swimming pool, which I took to me and you know, everybody had it, you know on streets we could ride bikes, but I had a very sheltered, you know, maybe two miles we both directions of where we went and I I was

32:47 You know, I enjoyed my childhood. We we went are the highlight of Our Lives as we went to my grandparents in Wisconsin had a farm. We spent two weeks there and for all of us, it's funny how that that. One thing that we did every year was the Cornerstone of Our Lives because it was you know, we could do what we wanted to do. It was simple it was you no gravel roads and helping bale. Hay and all that kind of thing just that he's so and you know, and they thought I was bossy because I had to be where were you in the order of the kids? You said you were the oldest

33:30 Or little brother two years younger four years younger and 10 years younger and Twins were in there and you know it and then I went to my parents had me go to a Catholic grade school and I went to an all-girls Catholic school, which I didn't like all that much. But what thing I did like about it is it makes you strong you don't think in terms of intellect and I never been that way. Is that oh, well, that's a girl thing or that's a boy's thing and that's where I bruised. My son's is that there's work. It's not in our men and women with boys and girls it's work. So I think that's

34:18 It was it was a good life my dad and mom both. My mom is a nurse and you know, it's it was a nice childhood. How about you did you like being in the middle of the country with all these? You know, what did what were your summer is like or what was your day? Like when I was growing up in Florida?

34:43 You know, I both my parents are doctors. And so I was raised primarily by my grandmother lived in our house with us when I was a kid. And so it was really interesting. She danced with the very creative very free spirit Arc. She wrote poetry and painted and did all these things. So one of the most distinct memories I have of the kid was every afternoon, but she would pick us up from school my brother and I and waiting for us paint by numbers or like playing with Play or going in late picking up stones in the backyard and they making sculptures and had a lot of like a creative Lansing early life that I think sort of molded who I became as a as an adult. I mean she has large

35:43 She was the most influential person in my upbringing for sure. My grandma brick was as yours because we only saw her two weeks a year, but I felt much closer to her even though so it's the you're the person that away and what they've been exposed to and that's so awesome to have that kind of grandparent cuz it just that's really the I can see where that would be a Cornerstone. Yeah, and she always said that having she had the I forget now how many of us cousins are are like 15 great-grandchildren and then right.

36:43 Many great-grandchildren by the time she passed away. So she always said that that kept her heart and she she died when she was 99 1/2 years old. So I feel like that was true for her. Yeah. That's awesome. That's great for us still is yeah. It's very important for us. We even though I feel bad in a way our kids because we moved around so much that they really not never had the experience of spending extended we would go up at time with them and then my mother and dad both had Alzheimer's early onset, so they really didn't have a sense of family. So

37:39 We went to Detroit where we live. We would go back for 2 weeks to its I have four brothers there and Matt had sisters there what they want to let you know it's like I feel for royalty and when they say they've done Dusty all these people we want to see all these people are just right family pleading to have the experience of I mean that was a huge part of the reason why we moved back to Florida was because like this point so much of our family is concentrated here in the states and I wanted my kids an experience of like growing up with President been growing up with lakes close family connections and things you large family gatherings, and he freaked out because it's just felt like such a huge life painter for us growing up to just have had connections to the extended Village of our family.

38:39 On the refrigerator. I had everybody's pictures on there so that they are Level so that when they did see them once a year have a clue fictional people then didn't even though I have four grandchildren and they're not your to be on the phone. But when my kids were younger phone calls cost you ten or fifteen dollars. So the kids didn't call to talk on the phone. They didn't have that opportunity either. I know, you know, no Skype or anything like that. So it's just, you know, you just do the best you can and they love their families and the three boys that are in a good friend. So that's awesome.

39:36 Is there any any questions Melanie that you have of me that we haven't answered her that you're curious about. It was wonderful to snapshot into who you are and how you see the world which is Lovelady ya feel free to comment or not. But it was something that I just noticed that I thought you might have questions about each other. You know Melanie you talks about growing up in a in a very white area and really having not much exposure to you know, liberal being like a dirty word and you know, you didn't really get too much into you know, what your childhood in that aspect was like that the same time Avis, you talked a little bit about growing up and let you know this Bungalow and you think maybe

40:36 Democrats, but then you also said sort of I guess my dad was a racist but I didn't think it will not wait. Do you eat questions about those things about each other tree ocity. I mean

40:56 Yeah, I can see where.

40:59 You know as far as like what's my dad's if you're curious the you know, we didn't my dad love to discuss things and he and his brother would discuss things but I don't remember my brother is telling me that we were talking that he was racist and I vaguely remember that but I don't remember within our household or even in our environment, but we were in an all-white environment Catholic School. My brothers went to the public school, but we didn't you know, and I really I never

41:39 I think the first time I ever met a black person I went to Michigan State University and it was at a party and it was with I don't know if you know Bubba Smith was a big.

41:55 And both words a big football player at Michigan State when I went to Michigan State, we won all the time and all the time in at this party and he was this giant of a guy and I never met a black person before and it was dark. So what I remember is I looked up like this it was like this darkness in the dark because he was black black black black that was my first but I never even with Dan and I didn't think of them being any different other than their black from my household. We didn't have any and my dad Maybe Might dad had a gas station because they may have seen more of that at the gas station then what my dad would bring home.

42:55 It was something about Maybe. I'm Amazed that you might have interacted with some people outside of your immediate community that save you as kids and indication that maybe he felt certain type of way about people who were black or gotcha. Yeah, and I mean literally grew up in like an almost always liked by the people of color that I knew in my early development all apart of our very small very close-knit Caribbean American community. So everyone I knew was you know, an immigrant or the child of an immigrant from the Caribbean which is a very different cultural subset then people who were born and raised African American in this country except in my own family my mother and grandfather and grandmother Austin would say to me

43:55 Brother, and I know you're not black. You're not a black American you're not like those Americans who those others African Americans that you see out in the world. You're a Jamaican you need to remember it and there was a lot of Life wanting to distance to we were from like the population of Americans of people of color in this country and I went out into the world when I was at school and in my all-white environment in you know,

44:28 Everyone obviously saw me as a black person is so I lived in this kind of middle space for much of my childhood end up bringing. We're on the one hand. I was hearing one message from my cultural kind of Life Center and Hobbit, but then I was getting very different message out in the The Wider world and in my private school in my funeral suburban community. I was only kid in my grade who wasn't white how did that feel it? Very isolating. I felt like it was obvious that I didn't belong and I would never belong. I mean a message was very clear that you know, you're not one of us.

45:22 Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah, and it wasn't always it was sometimes spoken out loud and sometimes it in a way that we were treated my brother and I but then the interesting thing was when we both left private school after Elementary School and went into the public school system in our town and suddenly we were one of you know hundreds of other kids who were non-white and the message that we got that I specifically hide from the kids in my grade and in my classes when I went to Junior High School was even though you might look like us you're not one of us either because of the ways in which I had thrown up thoroughly that maybe like different from the other kids of color in my in my classes, like for example, I was off and made fun of because I talked 20% or I was smart.

46:22 Wore glasses and got good grades, like those were thought of and considered and cut people don't do and so they often said to me like that the white. Well, she's black so she belongs over here and the black acrylic will know she's not because she doesn't talk like that. She doesn't look like that. She doesn't she doesn't you know, it was very

46:50 Just breathe, you wouldn't know where the term. I mean there was no stable footing right exactly and I grew up having a pretty strong identity crisis for many many years until probably until I got to college and finally found a community of people who had had similar backgrounds to come from these like mixed race Multicultural families and had also kind of been through and had similar stories to the one that I had and I recognize that there's a community people. He's also like me kind of existing between these two worlds, especially having to grow up caribbean-american in the South where this really only two categories, you're either black or white and anybody who doesn't need to be sitting in those two categories, you know, you have to get used to

47:49 Trying to answer the question. What are you what are you so that we can categorize you, you know, no color at all. Is that the people try to pick on each other in categorize and and we got more bullying at all this you know, I mean, it was really the insanity of you know, too bad. We can't blow torch our skin off of where all these muscle of the people who were the same color as you you know, but it's the same same thing as why would somebody who's white think one thing about a black and white with I don't you know, I think about that. I do remember where there is that, you know, I'm even between Black Sabbath a year black black or your you know, why do people do that to each other?

48:49 Can I see who am I right? There was a long time where it was hard to figure out like how do I defeat myself away that on the inside and the outside and I can't get those two things. Just who is this? And what can I be just another version of a different way that people

49:27 It was the fact that your grandmother stress that you were Caribbean. Was that helpful to you.

49:50 Not really. I mean in some ways it was but in some ways it just just serve to create this division in my mind between like real people that I might have been able to like identify with and I very much do now in like adulthood identify as a person of African descent a person of color and I wouldn't ever a check the box he's days. That's if I have to choose between like white black or African-American or let you know, I will change my African-American box even though I could easily check all three because all three are part of my you know, where it's at because of the way that I am appear in the world has I want to hold on to that.

50:46 Aspect of my cultural identity. I do very much identify with my African descent part of who I am. Do you think it would be better? If you know when we have to fill out those boxes is that you know could have a zillion I guess but instead of that we could feel free to say I'm black. I'm white. I'm Caribbean. I'm just like I'm a much I mean, but when they are white, but it's not obvious space or the fullness of who people are and to celebrate that that diversity that even exist within one person because of a sense of like oh, so

51:39 Just because one person might look a certain way doesn't necessarily mean that they have exactly the same experience as the other person that looks similar to them in the same way you grew up in Detroit and you have you know, a certain type of complexion in a certain type of hair. Is there somebody who might look very similar to you who grew up in like their legs or Italy in early like that, you know understand that difference in a different sort of play piano and I think government could help in that regard instead of making it but you know anyting. Yeah, let's put it all in there, you know, the reasons that people want to come to the states as because we are a product of a Multicultural Society and you can still

52:39 I wish they would take the Spanish out of Home Depot and all that is because if you come here, learn the language, you know take you know, you are not American Pie went to France. I wouldn't expect them to say okay guys put it in English because I'm here now. Well, it's time in France. I want to be there cuz you know, I think it doesn't mean you have to take it away. But there's too many instances where Ian I don't know what that device has either of you know, because I think it's fine to have

53:19 And it's healthy young differences. But yeah, I think I think there's a way in which we can allow people to hold on to the parts of who we are as opposed to forcing us to choose choose this part of who you are or who you are but you can't be all things at once and I I I want to see us move into a world where we can live at complexity live with that. Who people are even if it makes us a little uncomfortable because we can't figure out where they should go in the room in the puzzle in our brain emphasize that we are in a worse to and Richard that's too is you know the better

54:19 One of the more diverse and I think that you know somehow that's gotten but I think again going back to politics is that they don't get votes that way right? Yeah. So we have to always keep that in the back of our mind that like, there's it's not always just the way it looked on paper. There's often a deeper reason why these divisions between us are highlighted and end because it helps people to somebody somebody benefits from not benefit from what's workout is like a a farm you've got to have problems and you got to work on them. Absolutely. Okay.

55:19 A question earlier call. I think my final thought Davis is dead. And I'm so grateful to you or your open-mindedness and your willingness to do something feels a little bit risky and a little bit subversive for the State Building more comes around and I feel the same. I'm just so grateful that you if you wanted to do this because it takes both of us to make this happen. And so it's hopeful for me that there are you know, and I think this program is just a wonderful idea and you know in a way I wish to record would you know go a little further with it now, so I'll money and it takes its everynight.

56:19 I'm just so grateful. Yeah, well as it's just it's my life richer having had a conversation you agreed agreed. And now if I run into you somewhere in Jacksonville, I will be sure to stop and say hello. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I live in St. Johns County, but I was just saying Jacksonville cuz I know this is Jacksonville and you will meet in St. Augustine somewhere. If you want to do that sometime, I'd be fine with that so entirely up to you so

57:19 Yeah, but she needed in much appreciated. I can't wait to hear other people's stories. Yeah, me too. Yeah, we need more of this and again, I'm grateful for the opportunity and thank you very much for I've been excited about this, you know, he don't I love to meet people and we don't often get this kind of opportunity. So