Ayanna Woodard - Grey Living Between Black and White

00:02 Okay. Hi, Collean Hello.

00:05 How are you?

00:05 You're good. How are you?

00:07 I'm doing well, thank you for asking.

00:09 Hi. Okay, so I'm Ayanna Woodard and my day, the name of my interview is Gray Living between Black and White.

00:17 Yes, ma'am.

00:20 So I'm gonna start by this. How do you feel about. I identify. How do you identify racially and ethnicity?

00:29 Let's see. So are you asking me like, you know, what. How do I racially identify myself? Okay. So living in America, I don't have a racial identity that has been explicitly defined for me. Right. I am actually a mixed race American. Okay. I grew up in upstate New York, born to a wonderful black man and a beautiful white woman. I have plenty of siblings. Right. And so within that scope, race has often been defined by physical characteristics such as, like skin color, hair texture, you know, facial features, you know, however, these characteristics, they do not necessarily determine our racial identity. Right. And so I don't have an identifier because as mixed raced individuals, we haven't been given an identity as of. Right. Yet. And that's what I'm fighting for.

01:34 All right, okay. Actually. All right, there we go. So how do you. How has your biracial identity shaped your life experiences?

01:57 So how my racial identity has shaped my. Can you repeat the question? I'm so sorry.

02:08 How has your biracial identity shaped your life experiences?

02:13 Well, as I was telling you earlier, you know, being that, you know, as mixed raced individuals here in America, we don't really have a specific identity meaning, you know, you have your black Americans, you have your, you know, Caucasian Americans, you have your Asian Americans. You know, there is no name for mixed Americans. Right. We're considered a minority, you know, in that. And so, you know, growing up, you know, living in a predominantly, you know, African American community, you know, it was quite challenging. I had a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, you know, being a lighter skinned black and a predominantly black community, right. There were challenges. And not only was I discriminated against, you know, myself within my community because I was a lighter skinned black, you know, my hair texture, my, you know, my lips, these kind of things. But also in the community, as far as, you know, law enforcement, you know, there was no special treatment and I didn't expect any, you know, living in that, you know, in a black community, you know, middle class community. But yeah, so I was definitely, you know, discriminated. It affected me because I was, you know, discriminated against by both the community. I was Living in and the law enforcement community.

03:31 So how did that law enforcement community being not accepted by them, how did that affect you?

03:37 And yeah, great question. And so, you know, for example, you know, just hanging out with my peers, you know what I mean? Within that community, you know, if, you know, they were like, oh, that light skinned girl over there did that, you know what I'm saying? It's like they directly came to, you know, the only light skinned girl, right, the crowd, which was me, you know what I'm saying? Unfortunately, fortunately, that never did happen. But I have, you know, seen it happen to other individuals. You know, but again, you know, being that lighter skin, it's like, you know, you're that, how do you say, you know, you stick out like a sore thumb, per se, right? And so if you're being identified, then, you know, you're a light skinned, you know, that licensed girl over there, you know, that kind of thing. You know, not another black, you know, kid in the community. You know, I was set aside and definitely, you know, identified differently.

04:36 So my next question is, how do you think society views biracial people?

04:43 Again, I believe that society views us as a minority, you know, as if we are African Americans. And that's what we have been taught to identify ourselves by our father's race. Right. My father is black, right. And so I have always identified myself as black. And I'm not taking that away because I am very proud of my black heritage. Okay? But in fighting for an identity within our mixed race is important to me.

05:16 So you don't think, when you say minority, you don't think that, you know, they don't consider us just being mixed. It has to be, you know, that minority blood, that black blood is what, you know, we've been taught, right?

05:29 And, and that's what I'm saying. It's like we, we are unique. Each of us are unique as individuals, right? No two people have the same identity. And that is important to us. It should be important to each individual. Right? Our identity is the core part of who we are, okay? It shapes the way that we see ourselves and the world around us. It also influences our choices and our decisions. Right? And that's our right as Americans. Right? But people who have more than one ethnicity are forced to choose. And that's what I think your question is asking me, you know, to choose a race by society when they have no specific, you know, we don't have a specific identity. And so, you know, I find, you know, I want to find a way for people with more than Just one ethnic identity to, you know, identify themselves with again, you know, to say, oh, we're minorities, you know, but why within America, you know, is it that, you know, like I said, Asian Americans, you know, Korean Americans, you know, African American, everyone else has an identity, you know, and why can't mixed Americans have something specific that we identify with? You know, when you're filling out a job application, right, There's a few options there. You've got your, you know, American, your Indian American, you got your African American, you have your Hispanics. Right. There's no box for us to check.

07:01 Right, Right.

07:02 So we have to do something or we're not counted in the census. And that's not right. That's not fair. That's not fair to us.

07:10 You're absolutely right. Yeah. A lot of people don't think about it that way.

07:15 They don't.

07:16 They don't think about it that way. Especially for. For mixed biracial people. They don't. They don't see that. And it's. It's that. It's a shame, you know, it is.

07:28 And sometimes it's not even brought out to our attention until we actually have to do something of that nature. Like I said, filling out application, you know, and you're sitting there like, I don't know. I mean, I have multiple, you know, I'm not only, you know, black and white. I am German, I'm Irish, I'm Italian, I'm Indian. You know what I mean? So I have a lot within my bloodline along with the majority of America. Right? Yeah.

07:50 Yeah. So, you know, the assignment we just had to do, and I thought about that. I thought about that when it said to choose someone, find someone an article, but they had to be of, you know, different identity.

08:05 Yes.

08:06 Well, we both share many identities, so how they, you know, that we. I found it interesting because I said, how. How do we fund what identity?

08:19 To be honest with you, I honestly had to choose the Asian American writer because, like, you're saying, that was my only option. Everyone else was within my bloodline. Someone I identified for me.

08:32 Yeah, me too. Asian American. Asian was in mine. So it was just.

08:40 Yeah, just pick one. Right.

08:44 Exactly. Exactly. Tell me about a time when you felt most proud of your biracial identity.

08:52 Most proud. Let's see. Yes. Me, my. My brothers and my. My brother and my sister. As you know, we were growing up, you know, I know within our class we talk about privilege as well, you know, and so growing up, I was chosen myself and my brother, myself, my brother and My sister, to model for a very predominant organization, actually, the Hairdressers association, put on a big fashion show. And what they were doing was. What's that word? Like, when they go down the rant. The walkway. They were modeling. Right. And so because of my features, you know, and because of my hair and, you know, my lighter skin, you know, my brighter eyes, you know, and things of that nature, because of my identity, my physical characteristics, I was chosen to be a mom because that was the type of. That they were looking for at the time. So that brings my attention even in saying that, you know, there are a lot of starving artists that are out there, actresses that want to get parts. And in going through this assignment, as you were saying, Drew some questions to me that when people are auditioning for a part, right. They. These producers are looking for a particular individual to fit this part, you know, in this movie. Right. And so that's. That's kind of what had happened to me. But I was proud not only to be chosen, you know, for being a model, my brother and my sister as well, but, you know, just to be able to represent my community. Yeah. You know, I live on this side of town, and we're doing great things. You know, all of us are. Not just robbing, stealing, killing and selling drugs. There's power positivity happening. That's what I feel. That's my experience.

11:02 Oh, okay. Well, I have an extra story, too, with that. My daughter, I took her to a model name. They kind of saw her in the mall, and they stopped us, you know, to get our attention, and they was like, we want to, you know, talk to her further. So I took her in, and the first thing the lady says to me was when she looked at my daughter, she said, we could be anything so we can actually use her, because you wouldn't know what, you know, her identity. And I actually. Well, do you know her identity?

11:37 Right. You know, do you know what you're even speaking about? Like, you know, you know, how did she respond?

11:46 She responded by, you know, my daughter just kind of looked. My daughter kind of looked at me, and then the lady, she kind of had this puzzled look because it was like, you know, oh, did I say something wrong? Did I say something? Kind of picked up on that, you know.

12:06 Right, right. It was like that odd moment, that odd silence that you feel, you know, something's uncomfortable. I understand. Yeah.

12:13 So. And that's something that we face all the time. All the time. We face that all the time. So, yeah, so that. That actually brought something up for Me. That was good. That was good. How does biracial identity influence your relationships with your friends and family?

12:38 I mean, my circle is as big as a Cheerio. Okay? So I can't say it necessary necessarily has to do with my, you know, identity. It more so has to do with who I am as a person. Okay, but there are some friends, you know, that, well, associates that I call friends or people that I thought were, you know, friends. You know, when there was a scenario when a certain situation had came about, you know, this particular friend, a lighter skinned American such as myself, you know, she started to involve herself with, you know, a different minority, different race, right? And so, you know, they had different cultural beliefs, you know, and she told me, you know, basically, look, you know, I can't talk to you anymore because I'm going in another direction. Well, that's hurtful. You know what I mean? So whether, regardless of the scenario or myself, someone, you know, wants to befriend you, you know, or not associate with you, it's a hurting factor, you know, and race and identity should not be one of those factors.

13:52 Right.

13:53 Because like I said, regardless to, you know, what the scenario is, it's hurtful, you know. You know, you move forward and you know, again, I'm just close with certain individuals. I feel like I'm a social butterfly. I love talking to people, you know, But I have, in case, you know, encountered meetings or situations where, because, you know, I was African, I'm considered African American or, you know, I was talking or associating or in a group crowd of people that, you know, were not of same identity, you know, when I did a conversation, they didn't want to talk, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, I'm gonna go get a drink right now. You know, I was like, what? Like, yeah, everybody else like what happened? You know, but you just learn to take it in stride. The older you get, the more mature you are, you know, you say, okay, you know what? That's one other thing that, you know, I need to stand on that I need to, you know, speak about, talk about, you know, yeah, this assignment because it gives us the platform and the opportunity.

14:53 I know, I know, I know right away we took to each other right away because of this, because we shared this pain, you know, issues in that environment, you know.

15:06 A little ironic though, you know what I'm saying? It's just like as people in itself, we should, you know, all identities, color, creed, characteristics, should be able to speak to one another and, you know, have a pleasant Conversation, regardless of where you come from. But, you know, that's, again, what we're both fighting for, you know, we shouldn't have to just stay within our circle. You know, we should be able to communicate with everyone.

15:29 But have you found that. That within our own circle, being of mixed race, it's hard for us to talk to each other about it, you.

15:37 Know, what it is, because we don't want to be offensive, right. We don't want to, you know, hurt anyone's feelings or like I said, you know, be befriended, you know, told you can't. I can't associate with you anymore, you know, But I think we have to get over that hurdle. You know, we definitely have to move forward in our thought processes and within our society, within our government. So get on the same page. And once we can do that, you know, it would be a more prosperous, prosperous, prosperous America, you know.

16:08 Right, right. Because, you know, even. Even my own self, you know, when I'm asked, I get. And you don't get offended when people ask me, what are you. You know, people who are. You can tell that they're mixed race.

16:21 Right? You don't.

16:21 But you don't know what, Right, Exactly. And then, you know, when they ask. When they ask me the same question, I'm like, okay, why you ask? You know, you have that. Why are you asking me?

16:30 Right. Why is that important?

16:32 Why is that important? But then you want to ask the same question when you see somebody else and you say, okay, well, what are you, you know.

16:38 Right.

16:38 But you have to think about, you know, how do I feel when they ask me that question?

16:43 Very so.

16:44 And I think that that's why we have such a hard time within our own community, talking amongst each other and voicing, you know, our experiences and how we feel is because, like you said, we don't want to be offended.

16:55 Right. You know, I mean, it's like, you know, we, we in life, we learn to, you know, kind of get like that tough skin, you know. But again, you know, I mean, you may have, you know, experienced a form of, you know, identity, you know, Christ crisis, meaning, you know, being offended through your identity, you know, that was more severe and heartfelt toward, you know, for you, you know? You know, but again, you know, why shouldn't I be able to say, hey, are you okay? You know, what happened? You know, are you comfortable in your own skin? Like, why can't we ask these questions? Why can't we? Like, but like you said, not everyone can communicate those feelings.

17:34 No, no, they don't. They no one. It's, it's not easy. Especially, you know, you see people of mixed race and you, you want to ask those questions, questions, where are you from? Just. And it's just out of curiosity. It's nothing else. It's, it's nothing else. But, you know, because it's such a touchy subject. It is and it shouldn't be.

17:55 You know what? I agree with you. It should not.

17:57 If we can talk about other races, think about how much, you know, black people. We're talking about Black Lives Matter. We have, you know, Juneteenth, all these celebrations about, you know, African Americans.

18:09 Listen, that, that draws back to your original question, right? How do we identify? And that's what I was saying to you. Identity, you know, say, for example, you know, we had mixed people America or mixed American Day, you know, saying we don't have a day, we don't have a holiday, we don't have something within celebration for, you know, the. And I don't feel that as mixed race Americans, we are a minority. We are a majority. There's a lot, there's more mixed races, you know, than you think. Right. And so, yeah, that's why, because we are in such an abundance, you know, it's hard to narrow down and identify, you know, what your race is. And maybe that's why we don't, you know, our government hasn't taken this seriously.

18:55 No, to give us.

18:59 Maybe not.

19:02 How do you navigate through your different culture backgrounds? Like, how do you, you know, think about your, all the cultures you have and you navigate through them and you say, okay, I'm this and I'm that, you know, how do you navigate through that? Well, how does that make you feel?

19:21 Well, for me, I have done the genealogy where I ascend from, you know, where my ancestors are. So I think that is honestly a start. If someone is in of that mind frame to where this is total of importance, you know, you know, your genealogy done. Know where you come from, you know, do your research, your homework and your, you know, background information in regards to, you know, your culture or where your family members, your ancestors came from. That will give you the strength, you know, it would give you the energy to want to dig more into it and fight for who you are, you know, because if you don't know, you don't know what you're fighting for. You don't know what you think from, you know, but again, why can't we have those conversations within our, you know, within our, our circles, you know, listen, I just found out I'm German. Right.

20:15 Oh, okay.

20:16 So my peoples was a part of the Holocaust. Like, are you kidding me? But then I'm African American, so my people went through the slave era. So it's just like both sides of my. And plus more, you have static events, you know, how do I identify? How do I, you know, and all these things. So it's just like, geez, you know, like, my people did damage, you know, did damage to others on one end, but then my other energy. Yeah, damage, too. So it's like, swallow that pill. Right?

20:52 And that's what we deal with all the time. We face that. You know, think about if you're reading the history books in school and you, you know, you're going through, like, okay, this happened, you know, and during this time frame and this happened. And then you realize, wait a minute. My. My ancestors on both sides, I was involved. You're not involved in this. Involved in that. So it's quite interesting to know that.

21:17 You like, my husband, he's a very strong historian, you know, for African Americans and the indigenous people. And a lot of times it's very hard for me just exactly what you're saying, you know, to watch certain movies, you know, to engage in certain conversations. But that's my heart, you know what I'm saying? I don't, you know, I don't want it to offend anyone, to be honest with you. But, you know, at the same time, reality and facts and history is what it is, you know, so through this course and through, you know, our assignments, I've learned. I'm learning how to be more expressive, you know, and more opinionated about, you know, who I am and my identity, that.

21:54 Yeah, me too, me too. You know, especially, you know, like, you were talking about the history books, and we'll talk about seeing, you know, even in, you know, watching movies. And you're relating on both sides of that, you know, just touching back on this, you know, even for myself, it was like, okay, so I've had, you know, think about it. We've had our ancestors who were slave owners and who were slaves, you know, think about. Think about that for you. Really think about that for a second. You know, for mixed people, it's going.

22:33 We.

22:34 We have to take into that, all of it into consideration. Consideration, Right.

22:38 And like I said, who can choose? You've got all that on your conscience, that in that moment, that second. Right. Do I. Which box do I choose? Well, in the back of your mind, like, you're saying, you're like, okay, you know, I've had, you know, I'm part of the slaves, but at the same time, I'm part of the slave owner. So what do I pick? It's. It's. It can be traumatizing.

23:02 Yeah, yeah. And when you relate on both sides, it's like you have an understanding of their mindset, their process. Why did they think the way that they thought? Why did they do the things that they've done, you know, to other people? And then it's like, okay, you have the other mindset of how could you do this to us, our people, how? You know, it's. It's a lot. It's a lot.

23:31 I mean, history in itself, I think, is a wonderful thing. I'm definitely an advocate for history. We need it. You know what I mean? But at the same time, how much history is actually truth.

23:42 Right, right.

23:43 You know that story where you tell a whisper, and by the time they get back to you, it don't even sound the same anymore. So it's just like, what do you really believe? And that's where I'm kind of, you know, at within myself, my own identity, my characteristics, researching who I am, where I've come from, you know, compiling all that together to make me Collean you know, and at the end of the day, I can only be happy with me. I can advocate, you know, among, you know, for myself and for others. But, you know, hopefully someone's listening, you know, hopefully, you know, others are willing to, you know, come in and join in with us, you know, on this. But at the same time, if not, you know, I think the reality is that we have to accept who we are, you know, not be ashamed or offended, you know, when people question or even ask, you know, who are you? You know, oh, you know, turn that naked crown upside down. Turn that positive into a negative.

24:39 Right, right.

24:41 I am a proud, you know, you know, white American, black American, you know, Asian, whatever it may be, you know, in it. And I think if we eliminate some words out of our vocabulary, you know, sometimes, you know, we can say, well, I'm a minority. You know, well, facts. No, we're not minority. You know, we're the majority. So having confidence within ourselves and being proud of who we are, you know, first and foremost, you know, so that we can advocate with and for others.

25:11 Now we, you know, I don't know if you have children or not, but if you. Just hypothetically speaking, if you have children, what would. What legacy? What would you pass down to them, as far as, you know, your racial identity and as far as, you know, Teaching them how to cope with racism within our community and with, you know, in the outside world. Like, what would you pass down to them?

25:39 Right. So, you know, I am a mother of two. You know, they're, you know, kind of in their upper 20s and so that's great. You know, as I was raising them, you know, my two children are different, boy and girl, but their skin tone and their hair and their eye colors are different. Same mother, same father. You see what I'm saying? So, you know, reaching back to our, you know, ancestries, some, some pulled the other from both directions. Right. So, you know, encouraging them, you know, just to be secure in who they are and to love themselves. You know, when it came to different questions and concerns about, you know, their friends or how the friends were treating them, you know, you know, why does he have curly hair? Why do I have straight hair? You know, these.

26:19 Right.

26:20 You know, and you know, this is what, you know, you were blessed with, right. God gave you these features. You know, this is where we come from, explaining to them, teaching them, telling them where these features came from, showing them visual, you know what I'm saying? In, in doing that, you know, you're building confidence in them and who they are. And that's how I approached it, you know, with every question, you know, going through them with, you know, history classes, you know, obviously, you know, February, you know, Black history month, you know, those kind of things, you know, going into a little more greater depth with them. Yeah.

26:54 So how do you, have you asked them, how do they identify themselves? Do they, are they minority, are they mixed? Like, how do they feel about it?

27:04 Well, they're both on different spectrums. One can pretty much could care less. You know, you got his own little world going on. My other child, she is more in tuned with that. You know, she did her own genealogy. You know, she's into herbal, you know, herbalistics and culture and natural and organic and so creating these products, you know, she had to research, you know, the origins for these specific projects. Right. And so she's more in tune, you know, but she's open minded and she asks a lot of questions.

27:44 That's good. Okay.

27:45 Absolutely. Like I said, when he's kind of like, you worry about it.

27:51 Boys usually, that's, that's difficult not to be interested. You see more girls doing that. Yeah. So how do you think we can create a more inclusive society for biracial people?

28:09 Let's see how that we can. Well, I think the most important aspect is awareness. So, you know, this is, you know, Story Corp is, you know, a platform that is being used, you know, now, but just identifying more platforms that are getting, you know what I'm saying, the word out, you know what I'm saying, to get more like minded people to come together, to have conversations, you know, because it only starts one or two, you know, as, you know, I mean, someone's seeing the video next, you know, you know, someone, you know coming in, you know, bringing awareness I think is the best way to identify. Now not all, you know, mixed raced individuals may not feel the way we do and want an own identity and that's okay, you know, but for those who do, you know, we have to start somewhere. And starting somewhere is to communicate, to talk about it, to express yourself, get on platforms, you know, Facebook, Twitter, you know, you know, tick tock, whatever it may be, you know, so that your voice is heard.

29:21 So have you thought about doing something more publicly?

29:24 I have not. Again, you know, taking this course has really opened my eyes and my ears, you know, me, some encouragement to speak my mind and my beliefs and my understandings, you know, so what I want to spearhead that form of organization or start that type of group. Something I would definitely have to pray about. But at the same time, if someone has questions or concerns, you know, I have no problem answering.

29:53 Awesome. And what, what advice would you give to other people from mixed backgrounds?

30:01 I think the number one advice that I would give to someone of a mixed background around is to know who you are. Identify.

30:09 Exactly.

30:10 Identify yourself first, Love yourself, be comfortable with yourself first, and then reach out and advocate with and for others. Because if you don't love yourself, you don't know who you are. You have no leg to stand on. What you talking about? Don't talk to me. You don't even know who you are.

30:30 Right, right, right. And that, and I, you know, I really feel like that's important to get to know yourself first, know your background. A lot of people don't do it, like you said, doing the, the genealogy stuff, people are afraid to actually do that.

30:47 And not everyone or you know, want to take that role. Most some people are not, you know, with technology and you know, the way things are going in our country now, they're not comfortable with putting saliva on a, you know, a dipst and sending it in for an analysis. You know, but speak to your family members, talk to the elders, talk to the, you know, the, the grandma that holds the family together. The bread, you know, the bread and the butter there, you know, talk to people that know, you see, with that.

31:16 With that. Because even with my own mother, she doesn't know a lot because back. And, you know, she always talks about. Back in the day, they wasn't allowed to ask questions. So that's where I feel like we need to start with our children being open to answering questions and that. And it's sad because for us, we don't know a lot about our background, and that's the reason why they were not allowed to ask questions.

31:43 That's a great point, though. You know, thinking about, you know, our past, you know, race was like, everyone know, you know, especially in America, the conversation of race is just a disaster waiting to happen, depending on how the conversation goes. And so, like you said, you know, some people were raised probably not to talk about it. So that's not at the forefront of their mind, you know, unless they're inspired in some way, shape or form.

32:10 Right, right.

32:12 To speak on it. But that's a wonderful point. I. Because my family, my mom and my dad come from two different spectrums. My mom's from the north, my dad's from the South. You know, so for my mom growing up, you know, a white woman in the north, you know, it was. She had more of a pleasant, accepting, you know, lifestyle and childhood because of her identity. My dad, you know, being born in, you know, the Deep south, had no choice in what direction he had to go. And so I believe being us being raised as kids, you know, it wasn't an emphasis of race because they both accepted, you know, and have moved forward in a loving relationship to create a family, you know, and they didn't want to pour those, you know, that history on us to stress us out, you know, in regards to who we are, you know, So I think, you know, as we got older, older, we kind of, you know, went our own directions and our own ways as children and, you know, teenagers and then young adults on how we would perceive ourselves. Now, if I have questions or concerns, you know, I can go to either one of my parents.

33:22 Right.

33:23 You know, ask those questions. But, like, you're in your example, you know, that's not possible. And so, you know, that's another hurdle, you know, that's.

33:34 That we have, that we have to.

33:35 Face, you know, but we have to remember today is technology the wave.

33:39 Right, Right.

33:40 There's many other avenues and doors that are opening up for individuals that want to do more research and find out.

33:48 Thank you.

33:49 Thank you.

33:50 And I am so, you know, amazed by your. Your story, your journey as well. And I do agree with awareness. So I think we opening up and opening up the doors now. This is our awareness. This is our. Us bringing it to the forefront. And, you know, I'm. I'm excited and excited about this journey.

34:14 Yes. We're gonna walk this journey together.

34:18 Gray living in. Be living between black and white.

34:22 I know. You're right. Thank you so much. It was great talking to you.

34:25 Thank you.

34:27 It.