Bailey Naber and Rixa Evershed

[00:01] RIXA EVERSHED: My name is Rixa evershed and I'm 50 years old. Today is December 7, 2020, the end of a very long year. And I am in Olympia, Washington with my friend and colleague and former employee and co worker Bailey Naber. And like I said, she is. She and I have been through fire together. Bailey.

[00:29] BAILEY NABER: I am Bailey Naber I am 22 years old. The date is December 7th, and I'm also in Olympia, Washington. I'm with Rixa and we've worked together for a long time. Like she said, we've been through a lot together.

[00:45] RIXA EVERSHED: So, Bailey, tell me, tell me about, tell me about and enough. And when we first got to know.

[00:54] BAILEY NABER: Each other well, Nature Nurtures Farm was probably the best center I've ever worked at. I started there in April of 2019, and that program really focused on helping kids with trauma and helping kids connect with animals. And we really focused on the kids at the center. And that was my favorite part about Nature Nurtures. I also made a lot of friends and family and it was a really nice place to work. It was probably one of the highlights of my life was working there.

[01:34] RIXA EVERSHED: It was, it. It was a really special center. I loved when I interviewed for that position, that backyard. I mean, I. The backyard was just so phenomenal with the climber and the old growth pine and all the stuff that was there. And the goats, of course, always the goats. And just, you know, everybody was there for the same purpose, which was to help children and to be present with children. And I don't know that I'll ever be in another place that'll duplicate that experience because it was outdoors and everybody was on the same page and I mean, and the children. I just, I keep going back to. We made a difference. We really did.

[02:29] BAILEY NABER: We definitely did our best to try.

[02:33] RIXA EVERSHED: Yeah, we, you know, you had Keaton there. What was the best part of it as a mom for you?

[02:43] BAILEY NABER: I personally enjoyed him being able to be outside no matter what weather. He was always outside playing, Excuse me. And he had a great time. He was always cared for well. And he was, like I said, always outside. Now that we're not there as much, he doesn't get outside as much. And he's definitely not as vocal or anything. So he. Nature Nurtures brought out the best in him.

[03:10] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, I love that. I love that. What do you wonder about other experiences there? What questions do you have?

[03:22] BAILEY NABER: I actually have a specific question I've been wanting to ask you. I wanted to know what was the hardest thing for you, like, as a director during COVID 19. Like I. Keeping the place there.

[03:39] RIXA EVERSHED: God, it makes me. It makes me. Oh, my God. This year, I would. I would have to say that the hardest. The hardest thing was knowing that we were being asked to step forward onto the front lines and be present for families and for each other without any medical insurance, without any financial supports, without any support for ppe. I mean, it was like the money. Like the faucet was on full open and the money was just going out and nothing was coming in. Because, you know, I mean, you remember that week, March 16, Bailey. It was a Monday. And we went in and we were fully enrolled, 57 children. And by the end of that week, we had 14. And, you know, we tried. We tried so hard to change our model so that we could be present for frontline workers. And, I mean, the guidance was changing every day. The. The information was changing every day, and nobody had answers. And I get that now, but it just felt like we were forgotten as a. As a workforce. Like the governor said, stay open. But then we didn't hear anything else from him for such a long time, and that still makes me so frustrated. And then the fact that elementary and secondary education is being so protected and we aren't. If I think about it too much, it just makes me so angry, because we're all educators, we're all here for children, but it feels like child care is the forgotten. The forgotten child. Child. I say in air quotes. And when I see how hard you guys worked and how dedicated all of you were to those children and to know that now we're closed and that is not a pathway for children anymore. I mean, we had children that nobody else wanted. They'd been expelled and. Or suspended from other programs. I don't know. How was it for you?

[06:23] BAILEY NABER: It was honestly probably the hardest thing that we've ever been through, like, as a family, we lost everyone kind of thing. So it's been really hard for us. I also feel like we were expected to do all of these great things without information that we needed, without the protection we needed or the support we needed. Because like you said, with health insurance, like, if I. If I ended up getting sick, I couldn't be there. I also don't have health insurance. So it's just a lot of things that Covid brought to the front of the issue. Like, Covid wasn't the start of the issue. It just brought all of the issues up front.

[07:09] RIXA EVERSHED: Yeah.

[07:09] BAILEY NABER: It just brought everything to life. And that the program closing was really sad. I wish we could have.

[07:19] RIXA EVERSHED: Gosh, I wish we could have too. I, you know, it. The summer was kind of incredible for me. How was it for you?

[07:29] BAILEY NABER: I'm thankful for the summer that we got. Being able to be there with some of the kids and being able to be one on one with those kids, because we only had not very many kids. I don't remember how many we had.

[07:45] RIXA EVERSHED: No.

[07:46] BAILEY NABER: But the numbers were so low. So we really got to interact one on one with a lot of those kids. And they, they needed it because everything was so shut down. And everything was shut down. They weren't seeing their families. And so part of my favorite parts was we would throw a lot of dance parties and the kids would enjoy it and we would have a lot of pizza parties or we ate popsicles every day just because we could. And I think it really helped the kids remember the summer. And it also helped me.

[08:21] RIXA EVERSHED: You know, we, we did that, that program at the farm, hoping that it would bring in another source of revenue as the director. I mean, my salary had to be paid anyway, but if I could generate some sort of revenue for the program, then maybe, just maybe we might be able to save it. We only ended up with six children total. But to be back in the classroom and to be work the classroom because it was the farm, right. So we were outside for those four hours a day. But to be back with children and such a one on one setting was watching them when they came in, Bailey, they were so tight. They were so just like stressed and I mean, these were children with like they had what they needed at home. These, these were the, the kids that had had the things right. But just the, the quarantine and everything else, they. They were so tight and so stressed. And to watch them kind of open up over the course of the summer with our interactions with nature, being down at that creek, I mean, you know, with McLean Creek being salmon bearing, we got to see so many things. We got to find lamp rays and we got to find crawfish and salmon fry. And then of course, the dinosaurs that came along with us every day. Oh gosh, those dinosaurs, right. Thank you again for supplying those dinosaurs. And you know, it just. And then when I would come back in the afternoon to the program to watch those girls conquer that log structure was amazing. They'd been working on that for so long. And for them to be able to walk around the top of it with no help, I mean, that was a good 6ft off the ground.

[10:19] BAILEY NABER: Yeah, I was practiced that all day, every day until they were able to get it. That that was their goal. Of the summer, I'd say was to be able to balance on that log.

[10:31] RIXA EVERSHED: And they did it. They did it. I mean, I was so excited for them. How did you feel? So this was a little bit pre pandemic, but I've always. We worked it out. But I've always wondered how it felt when you lost your childcare assistance.

[10:51] BAILEY NABER: That. I mean, I don't have any better words. And it sucked. I mean, I cannot figure out a better way to put. That definitely changed a lot. I mean, with Frank. So he got a small raise and that put us out of the limit for the child care subsidy in Washington. And I couldn't that. I think it was a 25 cent raise and that changed it to where I would have to start paying twelve hundred dollars a month. And I. We couldn't afford that.

[11:21] RIXA EVERSHED: What was your copay before? It was like 65, right?

[11:23] BAILEY NABER: Yeah, it was 6. I think it was 66 before that and then it changed to 1200. So we found a way to make it work, thanks to you guys, and we did. I ended up joining AmeriCorps, which was also an amazing opportunity, and I was able to get the childcare that I needed and still continue to be a part of Nature nurtures. And if I didn't join AmeriCorps, I don't think I would have. I would have had to quit my job and stay home due to the fact that child cares more than my rent. I mean, I can't. I couldn't afford it.

[12:03] RIXA EVERSHED: I know. I found out recently that for an infant In Seattle, it's $2,200 a month. Can you imagine? I can't even imagine paying something like that for childcare. I think that's the other. The other part of this, I mean, for me is the impact on families at the rate childcare programs are closing here in Washington. I mean, they're going to have no choice about where they go. And it's not going to be perhaps something that aligns with their culture. It. It's not going to be something that aligns with their budgets. I really worry about this as we move forward, especially since the. There. There doesn't appear to be any financial help on the horizon. It's. Yeah, I. How did you feel in the days leading up to our first closure in March?

[13:07] BAILEY NABER: I was very anxious. I wasn't sure if we were. We had talked about staying open or closing. We had talked about the different scenarios of what could happen. So being able. We had a lot of staff meetings and being able to like talk it out and help. But I was. I wasn't sure if I was going to have a job at. By the end of the month. I mean, with the mandated lockdown and everything like that. We were closed for eight weeks.

[13:41] RIXA EVERSHED: Two months. Yeah.

[13:42] BAILEY NABER: Yeah, we were closed for two months, and I was still at the school every single day. And it was. It was kind of sad being there by myself for two months every day, just alone. It really, like, hurt in a way that I can explain. I missed the kids. So anytime I'd hear laughter, I was like, oh, there's kids.

[14:05] RIXA EVERSHED: But, yeah, when I think of that playground not having its children, I mean, for me, that playground was a living entity. It invited exploration, and it invited learning, and it invited children to explore. Risk and all the things. And when I think of that playground without its children, it makes me want to cry. I show people pictures of that playground, and they're like, wow. I'm like, yeah, I know. It's such a hard thing to have to think about without its children. And then. Do you ever wonder if the goats are lonely?

[14:53] BAILEY NABER: I do, actually, all the time. I think that the goats really do miss the children. They love them whether they where I'm chasing them or not.

[15:06] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, Emma, she was so sassy. Tell me about reopening. Because we still didn't have a lot of information, but we decided to go for it. Tell me about that.

[15:18] BAILEY NABER: Yeah. Well, when we reopened, it was scary. We didn't know what to expect. We had to do temperature checks. We had half of the kids. But like you said, the playground, I think it really, really saved us being able to go outside where the kids could see each other. And so for people who would listen to this, the playground was a really, really big yard. And it had areas for just dirt piles, and it had log structures.

[15:51] RIXA EVERSHED: And the fort area.

[15:55] BAILEY NABER: The fort area. Basically giant Lincoln logs. That's how I can imagine them. And then there's swings, and the kids would constantly just run and go and play in the mud and the dirt, and they would be playing with the goats and caring for them. And then the garden also helped us this summer.

[16:14] RIXA EVERSHED: Yeah.

[16:15] BAILEY NABER: Once we reopened, being able to go out there and plant or just play, sometimes we just filled the garden beds up with water and they'd roll in the mud.

[16:28] RIXA EVERSHED: You know, I always laughed because we would send the children home so dirty. And I was always waiting for a family to say, you know, like, what do they do all day? Because they would be so dirty. But you know what? Those children were so happy. My favorite part of the playground was over on the far side where we had the electric spools and all the logs and the children would build different things. That was, to me, that was. I loved watching the children take, like, their little cars and stuff over there and the pretend worlds that they would make for themselves over there was always so interesting to me. And I'd enjoy listening to them help each other and problem solve together as they would move the bigger logs and things like that. I thought that that was always just so interesting because, you know, children are infinitely capable. I just. I say that all the time, but they are so capable. And to watch them without adults stepping in, I mean, it changes you as a teacher and you realize that you're learning alongside of them, that it's not just about teaching them, it's about learning from them.

[17:47] BAILEY NABER: Also, when we reopened after our first closure, I definitely note, like, realized that not only can you learn things from them, just from what they can do, but you can also learn things about yourself through them. So they really, really helped me. There's specific kids, but just all of the kids that would. They saw me upset that day because, I mean, it was just so stressful trying to be a teacher. And a moment during COVID trying to make sure everyone stayed safe, nobody got sick, trying to keep that all together sometimes. Like, I had a student come up to me one day and she's like, do you need a hug? And I was just like, yes, yes, I do.

[18:30] RIXA EVERSHED: So I remember that first day we came back and we all kind of looked at each other and we all just were like, screw it. And we all just hugged. It was. It was like. And I'm so glad that nothing happened. But I think for me, the social distance part is so hard. And, you know, I think about, as we talk about learning from children and learning about ourselves a little bit, you know, over the course of the summer. I mean, being over at the farm and I was lucky to have you and Jess to sub for me, but having 23 acres, old growth forest, wide open meadows, all of those animals, I mean, 11 horses, let's see if I can name them all. Four or five alpacas, two peacocks, the miniature donkeys and the miniature horses just having that. I'll never forget Elliot up at the fence that first week, and he was just leaning on the gate, and there were like three horses on the other side of the gate eating, and he was just leaning on it in the sunshine. Of course, that week it rained so hard all week, but that was like the one minute of Sunshine we had. And he was just leaning on the gate, like his head on his arms and he was watching the horses. And I think they had such an opportunity over the summer. I mean, it wasn't just about me learning from them, but to understand more about their own capabilities and being able to be in those big spaces and to climb trees. I mean, there were times when Henry and Elliot were so high in those trees and I was like, oh, boy, you know, fingers crossed that they get back down. But because they are so capable and to watch them gain skill at those things and then to watch Thad for the first time be able to, I mean, he jumped that creek and, you know, he wouldn't even cross that creek unless I was helping him. And then one day I heard this thunk behind me and I turned around and there he was with the biggest smile on his face. And I was like, did you just jump the creek? And he was like, yes. I was like, oh, can you do it again? Because I want to see it. It was just. To me, being able to have that. That time with the children was. I mean, anyone. I've talked about this before, but, like, to have all of the decision making put on your shoulders about keeping children safe and keeping families happy and figuring out where paychecks are going to come from and enrolling and all of these things is so incredibly stressful. And I've been doing it for so long. I mean, I've been in early education for over 20 years, but I've been a director for now, going on about 15. And it's. It's overwhelming and it's so stressful. And to have those months with those children was such a ray of goodness for me.

[21:47] BAILEY NABER: I. It definitely was for me too. I mean, I feel like having those last couple months of being able to come back and like, it was. I think it was the best way to say goodbye that we could have. It was just the best way to end things. Because if we would have ended things back in March when it started, I don't know, I don't think it would have been good for anyone. I mean, those boys, I, you know, I'm with Henry and Elliot every day and every day they talk about the farm every single day. Well, I did this at the farm. I did this at the farm and they have things that they've collected from the farm and they'll be like, oh, yeah, I found this from the farm with Ms. Rixa and things like that. So it definitely made an impact. And I see that every day working with These two kids having all of these things that we did over the summer with them, whether they're at the school or the farm, it. It helped them see the good during the bad.

[22:43] RIXA EVERSHED: Right, right. And you know, every once in a while Stacy or Jana will text me and they'll be like, Henry said this or Elliot said that. And you know, it just, I don't know that this year would have been survivable without that summer because, I mean, as you know, my dad died two months ago and like, it just, it just keeps piling on. And when I think about the way forward with child care and early education, it just feels so hard and it feels like it's never going to get better and like nobody is care, nobody cares, nobody is paying attention and. And when will children matter enough to people that they're willing to put the money forward to pay for it?

[23:39] BAILEY NABER: Yeah, that kind of is one of the questions I had for you is I know you've been in this field for so long and so what, what did Covid change? Like, how do you think of your career now? Do you think of it differently? Do you? For me, personally, I don't know if I could go back into childcare for the sense of loss that I felt. I don't know if I can do that again.

[24:14] RIXA EVERSHED: I think about that every day and it would be. I think one of the hardest pieces for me is that early educators, family, childcare providers, we aren't in this to fuel the economy. We're not in this to make sure that families can go to work. We're in this because of the children. And that is our passion. We come to this because we see children, we see their capabilities, we see their future. And I mean, without even going into all of the science and the stuff that goes with the work that we do, the work we do is so impactful. And I've told you so many times, when I make decisions, I prioritize children, what is best for children. And then right after that, it's like a really close second is what is best for teachers and families. And I don't think that people see that when they make decisions about funding. I think they see how it impacts the economy. They. They just see us as this thing that's over here that helps keep things open. And they don't understand that. It's. It's about us as educators who come to it with real passion and engagement for this co learning we do with children, for this time we get to spend with them. And for me, you know, now that I'M in a different place. It's about coming at it from the perspective of working in partnership with teachers, getting to spend time in classrooms, and getting to perpetuate the future of our field. And. But then I, I wonder to your question, like, is there a future for our field? Like, what. What does come next? Because Covid has done nothing but highlight how underfunded, unsupported, and unseen our profession is.

[26:47] BAILEY NABER: And for me, that's shown me how much of a backbone childcare is for just the whole nation. Like, it's, it's so important. And with it being underfunded and underseen, like you said, I. People aren't realizing that we. You need child care. It's not just a number. It's not just throwing some money at some organization. Like we need childcare, whether you're a teacher or a family, like, you need someone to watch your kid while you go, but you also want it to be someone who cares. You want it to be someone who will respect your culture. You want it to be someone that'll be there for you and your family. And not being able to be there for those people has been the hard. It's been so hard. Nature nurtures Closing definitely affected so many people.

[27:45] RIXA EVERSHED: I have parents reach out to me at least once a week, not only to see how I'm doing, but I think just as a touchstone. And you know, I've also thought about, like, what would I do instead of this field? Because I have so much expertise that translates into so many other areas. But I can't find it in my heart quite yet to leave. Because if experience like me leaves the field, and I'm using me in a general term to cover like, all of the people who have been in it for so long and have continued to learn and continue to research and continue to do all the things, if we leave the field, then it almost feels like a start over without any sort of guidance for, for people like you who want to do what's best for children. But I mean, maybe I'm putting too much importance on the role that those of us play. But like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's, it's definitely time that people wake up and understand that this isn't just about, like, it's not just about setting aside dollars for this. This is about the future. And it's a cliche for a reason, right? The future is our children are our future. But they, but they are. And if we don't have, if we don't have people who care and people who have knowledge taking care of them. I mean, their brains are developing at 1 million synapse connections per second. You hear me say that all the time, but that's huge. It's huge. The role we play is just like huge. You know. What do you miss about the program the most?

[29:59] BAILEY NABER: Our family. I say our family as in the students and the teachers. Like those are the best times of our lives, me and Keaton, both of us. So I really miss being there, seeing the kids, interacting with them. I see pictures of them on social media or I get mail. I got mail from some of the kids the other day.

[30:19] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, that makes me so happy.

[30:22] BAILEY NABER: I just. I truly just miss the kids. I mean, even if we had those same kids in a different location, I would be happy.

[30:29] RIXA EVERSHED: But I don't know. There's something about that location, though. I mean, I. I'm working in another location now and it's not the same, Bailey. It's just not. It's not the same and it's. And I think so much of that is because I don't have you coming in my office and fussing at me and being sassy or Jess making her. Her comments and her little. Oh, gosh, her sense of humor and. We had two babies. Two Covid babies born.

[31:03] BAILEY NABER: We have two Covid babies. I know I see them virtually, but I wish I could see them.

[31:11] RIXA EVERSHED: I only got to cuddle with Tony's little one once.

[31:16] BAILEY NABER: Yeah. That's all. I've seen him too.

[31:20] RIXA EVERSHED: And I mean. And I want them to be safe, but I mean, I. I miss that family that we had there. Not just the parents, but each other. Yeah.

[31:35] BAILEY NABER: What did you. What do you think we needed to stay open. I'm beside like just the money. I mean, we did the car rally to try and get some. Someone see us basically.

[31:51] RIXA EVERSHED: Right. You know, it's systemic. It is. It. It. Until the system changes, until we are seen as a professional workforce and not just a bunch of primarily women who hang out with kids.

[32:08] BAILEY NABER: Yeah. People like to call us quote unquote babysitters, which.

[32:12] RIXA EVERSHED: Yes. Or daycare. We're not daycare either. We're definitely far beyond that. I mean the work that happens every day is much more needs to be seen and it needs to be respected. And I can't say that loud enough or. But ultimately it just comes down to funding. It comes down to funding. That is the only thing that's going to change this conversation. Bailey, I. It's always such a treat to see you. Hugs to you, my friend, I. I miss you guys more than we miss you.

[32:50] BAILEY NABER: Keaton definitely misses being around people. We see the boys every week, but it's not the same. It's definitely not the same.

[33:00] RIXA EVERSHED: It's not. We're gonna have to do something all together when this is over.

[33:05] BAILEY NABER: Yeah. What was I gonna say? I was just gonna mention the amount of kids that we had with trauma to their lives so early in the way we were able to help them cope with this trauma. I feel like that really needs to be mentioned in this, because that was the biggest part of our job was. And not every day was all bright and shiny and eating popsicles and playing. You know, there were days where we had kids lashing out because they were just so overwhelmed at home or so stressed or didn't know how to cope with their trauma. And we had to sit there and basically take apart all of their words and their actions and figure out what was happening in their minds to help them. And with us closing, it makes me wonder if these kids are still getting that. Someone who can, like, nitpick and get down to the problem and help them figure it out themselves. Like, because we didn't just tell the kids, oh, this is what you need to do. We would say, what do you need to do? Like, what do you think would help you? And with us closing for Covid, like I said, it just makes me wonder if these kids are still getting that.

[34:18] RIXA EVERSHED: Portion of help, because we were the place they landed after nobody else would take them. And, you know, and we watched them, and I can think of, like, four that made such huge gains while they were with us. And I specifically one I wonder about every day because I. His mom was so young and had such trauma herself, and then he was exposed to all that. And, you know, I just. I wonder nearly daily how he's doing when he.

[35:01] BAILEY NABER: I know exactly who you're talking about. When he came on our last day that we were open, I called his family to get. To see if they wanted to come get his stuff. And when he walked around that car, it was like I could. I couldn't breathe. I saw him, and I was just like, oh, my goodness.

[35:18] RIXA EVERSHED: I know. That was the. That was when I finally started crying, was when I saw him that final day.

[35:24] BAILEY NABER: Oh, I hadn't stopped crying that whole day, and then I had finally stopped, and then I.

[35:28] RIXA EVERSHED: And then he was there. Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah. Thank you for. For talking about that. Because I think. And I think it's so hard when you're in it, because when you have a child who's punching and kicking and. And just hurting so much, and you're the one who's having to regulate that for them. It makes it incredibly challenging. And the work that all of you did to help those children, you made a difference. You guys have to know that. You guys made a difference.

[36:09] BAILEY NABER: Yeah, we definitely try to remember. It's not always easy to remember that.

[36:16] RIXA EVERSHED: No. What makes. What makes you hopeful.

[36:22] BAILEY NABER: Right now? Being able to be with the boys, like, because they're from the center, and it gives me, like, a sense of hope, like, being able to be there with them with my kid and being able to help them, it makes me feel better.

[36:39] RIXA EVERSHED: I have to admit to a little bit of jealousy about that. Hanging out with. I mean, they were your boys first, but I got to share, and the summer was so amazing. You know, for me, it's. I hold out hope that we. That someday we'll be seen. That someday we'll be acknowledged as a. As the profession. I'd love it if it happened while I was still professionally active and not retired. But, you know, I hold out hope for your generation.

[37:15] BAILEY NABER: I. I also hope that, like I said, I'm not sure if I could be in a classroom again, just from the trauma that happened to us from COVID Like, the trauma that it. It's definitely like an open wound. So I'm not sure if I could go back into the classroom, but I hope for the teachers that are in the classroom that things will get better and things will be funded and they will be heard, because I've never had a boss that heard me the way that you did, the boss that helped me. So that's also very important. I hope that people get good directors, because.

[37:52] RIXA EVERSHED: Thank you. Well, you and Tony, Jess, Jeanette, and all of you guys. I mean, we had a special crew, for sure.

[38:04] BAILEY NABER: We still talk every day.

[38:06] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, goodness. I don't know whether to laugh or be scared. Scared.

[38:12] BAILEY NABER: We still have our back channel, and we still talk in it every day.

[38:17] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, gosh, that back channel. When I needed you guys to, like, actually pay attention, I'd be like, can somebody put this on the back channel?

[38:27] BAILEY NABER: You guys, it's still gone. We're all very well put on the.

[38:32] RIXA EVERSHED: Back channel that I say hello and send hugs to everyone.

[38:35] BAILEY NABER: I definitely will. Everyone is doing okay. You know, we're doing the best we can. Some of us can't find jobs. Some of us are staying home because it's just, what's the point in working?

[38:49] RIXA EVERSHED: Oh, yeah, some.

[38:51] BAILEY NABER: We're all definitely hurting in our own way. So just. I mean, it's been a couple months since we've closed, and it's still very hurtful. I have a. I have a cork board that I took from the school, and it has all the pictures of me and the kids, and so I look at that every day, and it's nice to see.

[39:14] RIXA EVERSHED: Yeah, I bet. Well, virtual hugs to everyone. Thank you for taking the time with me today, Bailey.

[39:20] BAILEY NABER: Thank you for being here and helping me through this and, of course, always with. With me.

[39:29] RIXA EVERSHED: Absolutely.

[39:34] BAILEY NABER: And for my son, Keaton, he really needed nature nurtures, and I'm hoping that he'll be able to find something again soon.