Barbara Kivowitz and Michelle Maalouf: An Intergenerational conversation

00:05 So, hi, Michelle. We're doing this mutual conversation and I thought I'd start by asking you, tell us who you are. Tell us what you think we would like to know about Michelle Maloof.

00:22 Thanks, Barbara. It's so nice to be here. Hi, everyone. So I live in San Francisco. I've lived here almost my whole life and my career has been about ten years in the aging and senior living world. I work on sort of the innovation side with different technologies, products and services focus on the older adult and family members and caregivers as a consumer. And, you know, it's just such a nice way to connect with my local community, being on the board of the SF village and it really ties into my work really well. Outside of work, I love cooking, yoga, traveling, and spending time with family and friends. Barbara, I'd love to hear more about you.

01:14 Sure. Thanks for asking. Just listening to you describe your background, though, it sounds like what a great complete circle for you to have. Both your professional life and your volunteer life have so much in common. I want to hear more about that, but I'll tell you a little bit about me. My background is very choppy, very, very hybrid. And at the time I was living it, I wasn't necessarily sure what it was about. But retrospectively, I can see that it all threads together and led me to where I am today. But my background includes starting off as being a professor of comparative literature. And I speak five languages and I'm also a writer. And from there I shifted over into becoming a clinical social worker. And I worked in community based organizations with families and a lot of refugee populations because, as I said, I speak different languages, so I work with refugee populations. And then I shifted over into becoming interested in larger and larger systems and how systems affect people. So I became what's called an organizational development consultant, which is helping organizations, nonprofits, and for profits think about their strategy and their structure and how to build really strong teams and how to collaborate. And that led me into becoming interested in technology because a lot of teams are distributed globally and need to use tools to collaborate. So I became interested in that intersection of technology, innovation and collaboration. And then in my final ish phase, I brought it together and focused on doing healthcare innovation consulting with an emphasis on how healthcare organizations can become much more patient and family centered, which includes using technology and being really effective teams. That's a very mixed up story, but it ultimately made sense.

03:53 Yeah. And it all contributes to just what a wealth of knowledge you have. I think that's very cool that you have such a strong background.

04:02 Well, thank you. Thank you. So I'm curious, Michelle, how did you learn about San Francisco Village? What attracted you to San Francisco Village? And you've been on the board now for, for a while. What have you learned about being a board member at San Francisco Village?

04:22 Great question. So I was actually introduced to San Francisco Village a long time ago, maybe ten years ago, because I was working in the same building as Kate, who's the director of San Francisco villages. And so I sort of met her and learned a little bit more about what she's doing. She was innovating in the space. I was working at another company in the same building in San Francisco, and so we sort of crossed path there. And like you mentioned, I've been on the board for one year. And at the time, you know, a year ago, I was approached by Kate and another board member. Since I had some familiarity with folks on the board, and I just thought it was a great offer for me to be part of the board. It, as you mentioned, brings my career together. Also, I'm from the Bay Area, I have very strong roots in San Francisco, and I feel very connected to my community. So the fact that I could focus my work and efforts in my local community was very important and special to me. And so I definitely wanted to take that opportunity to be a part of it. A lot of my work in the aging space is international, so I don't see a lot of it touching lives, although it touches everyone's lives. At some point, I feel like my San Francisco village work is more hands on and that local community feeling. Throughout my last year, being on the board, and again, this was my first board membership. So I learned a lot about how to be part of a nonprofit board, what the kind of schedules and agendas look like, and trying to figure out how I can best contribute. One lesson or advice that I've learned is just to be really open minded. Everyone on the board and who's part of the team staff have different things to contribute. And I think that's what makes it so special and valuable to the SF village network. And so I try to be really open minded as far as other people's ideas, thoughts, experiences, also knowing that people have been on the board for much longer than I have. So learning from them and taking that all into consideration and hopefully people being open minded to my ideas and from my experiences in the life I come from to contribute to the success of SF Village as far as growing membership, keeping members happy, feeling a part of this vibrant community. And so, yeah, it's been a really great ride and I'm excited to see where it goes. One other thing is I joined the board during COVID so I know that the relationships I have with the team have been developing probably on a different rate or pace than the team had before. And I'm seeing a sort of different or next generation as a village programming. So also, like, it was important for me to learn what has been done in the past and how things have transitioned during and after the pandemic.

07:53 Michelle, I have to say your participation in the board has been invaluable. You are a treasured member and you bring such. Such a wealth of currency to the board in terms of your knowledge and your experience, the breadth of it, your familiarity with technology has been invaluable. And one of the things I'm really hearing in what you're saying is the depth of your commitment to supporting your community. And I think San Francisco village is all about community. So I very, very much appreciate, appreciate that perspective.

08:40 Thanks, Barbara. That's so sweet. We'd love to hear more about what brought you to SF Village as a really seasoned board member. I think, you know, I learned so much from you. So I'd love to know what attracted you to SF village and some lessons or advice you could share about being on the board yourself.

08:59 It's funny. I can answer in one word what attracted me, which is similar to your answer. Kate. I met Kate. I met Kate through a friend who is on the board of Ashby Village. And I met Kate and we talked and we talked and we talked. And she said to me, do you want to be on the board? And I said, well, let me be a member for a while first and get familiar with the organization. So I was a member for about six months before I actually joined the board. And that was maybe about five years ago, I would say. And I was a transplant to San Francisco. I'm a New Englander. I'm from the east coast. And I had been searching for ways to not only meet people, but to be of service. My family background is that I'm jewish and one of the most important. And in my family, heavily practiced, I would use the word expectations. Obligations is what's called Tikkun Olam, which means. Translates as to repair the world. That has always been part of. Of my upbringing since I was three years old, accompanying my father when he would give blood once a month to the Red Cross. So part of my DNA includes throughout my career and my personal life, being of service and being a social worker was part of that. Being a consultant was part of that. Being a teacher was part of that. And I was looking for a way to make connections, but also to be of service. And what San Francisco village offered me was Kate, and also a way to be of service to my own community, to people at that time, we were not as intergenerational as we are now. So it was being of service to people in my age group, but mostly older than me. And that was unique. And I was incredibly attracted to learning from vibrant, involved, engaged older adults. And I remember vividly, I took a writing class through San Francisco village, and there was one woman in it who was about 99 years old, and she was sparkling, and she was from the south, and she was from a very socially connected, intellectual, social network in the south. And the stories she was telling in the writing class about conversations when she was a child with people like Langston Hughes, were thrilling to me, and it was thrilling to see an older adult have such emotional, intellectual, spiritual, community capacity that wasn't, unfortunately, my experience in my own family. So it gave me a vision of elderhood that I didn't have before. And that's been profound, and it's been a lesson that I've learned, both from being on the board with other folks who are extraordinary and also from being a member of the organization.

13:04 I think that's huge, and I hope the same for everyone on this earth, that they give that space and opportunity and recognition for older adults and that elderhood that you're mentioning to really respect and be open to learning from, this demographic that has this wealth of knowledge and has this vibrancy and passion that I think we all continuously can learn from. I love that you discovered that through this network and are continuing to every day, probably.

13:50 Absolutely. Absolutely. And it sounds like that's been part of your trajectory for a long time, for your whole career. And I really appreciate that you already come to San Francisco Village with that appreciation. I think that opens up possibilities and innovation that we can all benefit from. I have another question for you, Michelle. For folks who are listening to this conversation years from now, potentially, what wisdom, what perspective would you want them to take away from your experiences, both in life and as a San Francisco board member? What would you want them to know?

14:51 Yeah, great question. What comes to mind for me here is the opportunity to be intergenerational. I think that a lot of times, there's a lot of communities that are not intergenerational, and I just feel like having an intergenerational aspect to everything you do, whether it's work, personal life, where you live, where you do the grocery store, cafes, anything like that. There's just this livelihood or this experience, experience that you get when your community is intergenerational. I think younger people benefit from older people, older people benefit from younger people, and everything in between. And so I really encourage people all the time to look for those opportunities, to spend time with people who are maybe less of their peers when it comes to age and more and experience more of this intergenerational aspect. And, you know, just to be able to learn from each other, talk to each other, it really brings life more to the forefront. We're always really busy with what we need to do, and obviously, we all need to make a living and live comfortably. And it's a busy world out here, especially in 2022. So we all have things that are top of mind for us. But I think taking a step back and experiencing intergenerational worlds is the type of wisdom I would want people to really keep in mind, especially when building new communities or designing cities for, you know, as far as transportation, food, entertainment, all those types of things. I think people can consider how this would work and encourage intergenerational networking and events in those types of situations.

17:03 Oh, Michelle, I think that's exquisite, the way that you laid that out. That's an exciting vision.

17:13 Yes. You see that happening. I mean, there's so much to benefit from it. So, you know, and I think we're making ways. I've seen, you know, programs where, you know, students in other countries are working with older adults in other countries virtually to focus on language or other types of learnings. I've seen, you know, kindergarten classes, networking with other types of senior living providers. There's. There's kind of those starting to come more to the forefront of. But I think the more we can incorporate it into our everyday lives would make us all happier and just improve our lives in so many ways.

17:58 There's an enrichment that comes, and it's not even just a two way enrichment. It's a multi way enrichment that comes when you create the kinds of intersections that you're talking about and that you do in your work and in your service as a board member, too. And I love how encompassing your vision is and that you can see it stretching to how we conceive of designing cities, how we conceive of developing policies. There's limitless possibility when we, when we really make the intentional effort to connect with each other across lines.

18:53 Exactly.

18:54 Thank you for that.

18:56 Exactly. Yeah. Thank you for sharing, too. And you know, I just think about it, you know, as I age, this is the type of life and community that I would want to live in. And I think that's how everyone should think about it. No one should be sort of like a separate group. Everyone is living and aging together, so why not experience all the good things together? And I'd love to hear from you, you know, for future generations. Is there any wisdom that you'd want to pass on to them?

19:27 Thanks for that question. That's a tough one.

19:31 Yeah.

19:33 I certainly echo what you said so eloquently, and I think I would add to it if I think of lessons that I've learned or wisdom is that listening is more important than talking and questioning is more important than answering. And in these spaces where we are crossing lines, the possibility of making assumptions and making misassumptions is pretty strong. And I think one of the most powerful tools we have for not making those misassumptions is listening and questioning and also approaching all experience and all relationship and all connection with an intention of leading with compassion and kindness. And I think that that is, for me, that's a constant consciousness that I try to bring. And compassion and kindness doesn't always mean being nice. It's not necessarily about just being sweet and nice. You know, it also means truth speaking, but it means truth speaking in such a way that you are always holding the other person's reality and importance as profoundly and as gently as you hold your own, if not more so. So if I have any wisdom, I think that's it.

21:38 Wow. That's, like, the greatest lesson of all time.

21:46 Yeah, I mean, I think baking bread is the greatest lesson.

21:51 It has to be sourdough here in San Francisco.

21:54 Yeah, right, right.

21:55 I. Yeah, no, I think. I mean, that lesson of, like, being aware, conscious, and having empathy and compassion for your. For your community and your peers and your loved ones, I mean, that is something that I think everyone is striving to do every day, and providing that space is just so important. I love that lesson.

22:18 Yep. Yep. And I think if there's one other thing to add to that is, and this has been a lifelong and continues to be a lifelong effort, and lesson for me personally, is to trust my instinct, my gut. I wrote a book with a colleague about the impact of illness on the relationship between the patient and caregiver. It's called Love in the time of chronic illness. And we interviewed extraordinary people for that book, and one of them was a spiritual counselor from Montreal, and she said, we all have a thousand year old guide inside of us who's trying to get our attention all the time and we just have to listen. So I remember that line that she said and I think listening to our, it's probably not even thousand, it's probably hundred thousand year old wise guide inside is usually always a good thing and leads us to unexpected but surprisingly wonderful outcome.

23:52 Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think I'm learning that lesson every day to become more confident with trusting your gut feeling and accepting it also sort of almost like letting things be, letting things happen the way that they happen and accepting sort of the path that each person is on for themselves and letting things sort of happen fall in place when they're supposed to. It seems like that tends to happen, but you have to sort of trust the process, which can be difficult. And again, going with your gut feelings. So that's very cool. And I would love to read your book. Thank you for sharing that.

24:42 Sure, sure. Yeah. What you're saying makes me think that sometimes getting out of the way is as important as stepping in the stream and just letting it flow. I think that's very wise. Michelle, it's been a pleasure having this conversation with you. I have so enjoyed getting to know you this way.

25:08 You too, Barbara. It's been so nice. And, you know, just, we hope that these questions and answers and getting to know us just really supports what SF village is doing and would love to connect with members and the community as much as possible.

25:25 Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you, Michelle.

25:29 Thanks, Barbara. Take care.

25:30 You too.