Beq Parker and Kenneth Wetcher

00:05 Hi, my name is Ken. I'm 80 years old today, is August 9th 2020. I'm in Naples, Florida, and I'm speaking with my one small, step partner back.

00:24 My name is Beck. I'm 72 years old. Today is August 29th. 2021. I'm in Richmond, Virginia. And I'm speaking with my one small, step partner can.

00:41 You asked me first, Becca. Do I ask you?

00:46 Go ahead. Why did you want to do this interview today?

00:53 I have a friend who I encouraged to sign up for it. And she said you should do it too. So I kind of got dragged along with her. I don't know if she's going to do it or not. But I thought about my reason for being here was the state of our

01:13 The atmosphere around our politics in our elections anymore and how much hatred there seems to be rather than white people aren't listening to each other anymore. So that's kind of what's on my mind, a lot lately.

01:31 And my response is going to be pretty similar to yours in the sense that I heard about this a number of times on NPR and thought that it will be interesting to do because it's so difficult to have a conversation with somebody who has any differences in politics nowadays. I have one very, very dear friend of who is, is polar opposite of me in political spectrum and we can yell and scream at each other and still love each other. And so that they can have a reasonable discussions in the process, but it's very, very rare. And so I end up hearing more from people who agree with me, then from people who don't agree with me.

02:15 To look at the multiple media outlets in order to try and get some sort of picture, because I don't think there's a single outlet that doesn't have a bias in One Direction or another.

02:31 I totally agree.

02:35 Take a moment to make sure everyone has silence their phones. I think I heard somebody in the background.

02:41 She can put it on airplane mode. That would be helpful.

02:46 And then our next thing is going to be a little different. So we are going to you're going to read each other's bios out loud as written and then ask your partner anything you might like to know about their bio. So I'm going to put back bio in the chat first and can you can go ahead and read the bio. I'm going to put it in the chat so you don't need to have it on your paper and you're going to go ahead and read the bio as it's written in first-person. And then go ahead and ask back any questions you might have about her bio.

03:22 Hey, I grew up as the child of parents who were completely entrenched in the two dominant political parties. When I was old enough to vote. I registered as independent because I wanted to make my own decisions about who I chose to vote for and not just go along with this party or that I was in college during the worst of the war in Vietnam. This was the first time that I became aware of the rift in this country. I truly believe that we are being set against each other.

03:56 So I guess I wasn't clear about it in terms of your parents. Were they did they have opposing opinions or similar opinions about politics?

04:11 Opposing opinion they would never vote for anything but their favorite party. They didn't even consider any other option. That wasn't there for them justice among themselves, or was it just a straight forward line vote. How did that affect you?

04:37 Well, that was one reason and I understand you can't do it now. But at the time, when I was 18, and I registered to vote, you could check, Republican Democrat or independent. And I was like, haha. I can't hear some, here's my option. I'll just, you know.

04:53 Do my own research, listen to both parties decide who is going to represent me and that would influence my choice. I do in Virginia. I don't believe someone told me I was wrong and I couldn't register independent. And I know that I did when I was 18, but that was a long time ago.

05:16 But we're where I living in Naples. I think you can register as an independent, but generally speaking, it doesn't make any sense because then you don't get to vote in the primary. I think we still do, maybe not. Now we have had traditionally open primaries. You could vote for either party in the primary. I know it. Yeah, that's right to use the system.

05:46 Which I don't think I have any more questions of you. All right. I'm going to put Ken's Bayou in the chat and I'll back you. Go ahead and read it in first person and ask any questions you have.

06:02 I was born in Siberia in a Russian slave labor camp during World War Two parents who fled Poland during the Nazi invasion. My parents were able to come to the US after the war. And we were able to clearly see the difference between a socialist society and the capitalist Society having survived pogroms in Poland and anti-Semitism semitism and Russia. We understood the importance of the freedom. We are blessed with and have fought for in America.

06:31 What a story. What a background you have. I guess I would like to know how old you were when you were born. I mean, when you were in the camp and

06:46 Do you remember what life was like in the gulag?

06:51 I guess, first of all, I think I've been blessed with the ability to not remember and unlike many other people on my memories of childhood are quite limited. I came to the states in 1947. So I was at best a half years old and after WWII I have to wear wore can say the war. The way we used to have to WWII. They Siberia before the end of variety of reasons were in other parts of Russia. And then after WWII, they allow Jews to leave who had got in the way we did and they allowed us to leave. And we ended up in Germany in a displaced persons camp. And then, and then came to the US.

07:50 But that's all historical stuff that I just sort of know most of my that the few hours I have. We're actually fairly Pleasant except for one or two bad memories.

08:04 How old were you when you came to the US?

08:15 Are you attended the public schools here in? I was raised in Brooklyn. I don't have that much of a New York accent.

08:36 Next question in the chat and back, I would like you to ask Ken this question first.

08:45 Who has been the most influential person in your life? What did they teach you?

08:54 I think I hit would have to be my father.

08:57 Of what he taught me. I can sort of saying it basically one sentence. I actually put it into the preface of a book that I wrote. He basically said to me, when I was in college.

09:12 No matter how ridiculous and crazy ideas are that you're learning in school. It's okay for you to follow them. As long as you really study what you're doing.

09:24 And dad that that's told me for a long time, but that he disagreed vehemently. I was a socialist at that time and he disagreed with me via that monthly about my position, but he said it was

09:39 It was fine with me to follow my positions as long as they were studied and carefully thought through rather than just parotid from somebody else.

09:53 Good answer.

09:58 So I guess I should ask you the same question in the most influential person in your life. And what did they teach you?

10:07 Well, my parents both were very influential, but my mother, most of all we were best friends, her whole life, and mine. And I guess what they taught me was to not worry about being an individual and and going along. They are and I consequently created by Nature while they're both gone, now, that they were very creative and they pass that along to me and nurtured that. And I say,

10:42 Apart from that, maybe just being myself and being an individual, not going along with the crowd. It's kind of like, what your dad taught you.

10:55 All right. I'm going to drop the last question that I'm going to ask you into the chat and can why don't you ask back this first and then back, same thing you ask Ken and then from there, the conversation is between the two of you and I can help out in the shop, but it's it's on the two of you keep going.

11:16 Could you could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values and what shape them?

11:32 Personally, I've heard I didn't come up with this. But I've heard we all do better, when we all do better my values. I stated, I guess it was the documents. I filled out yesterday that

11:47 I believe in the golden rule is simplistic. Is that is that you want to treat everyone, the way you wish to be treated? I don't know what shaped those ideas. It just it just seems right to me.

12:05 Okay, 10. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values and what shape?

12:16 My my current political values, I think it's fairly clear. I'm I think that's social liberal. And in, in the old sense of the word. I'm not sure what the new sense of the word is anymore and a fiscal conservative. I believe very strongly in the Jewish values that I was raised in, which is caring for other people doing good. Deeds. My version of the golden rule is slightly different. The original that I looked up the golden rule by the way, and and there are probably hundreds of different versions in all different cultures, but the Jewish person is

12:57 Not do unto others, but do not do unto others. What you would not have others do unto you and that's really my perspective. I don't want to impose my own personal desires on other people. I just tell you I want to make sure not to do that and I don't want you to do what? I don't want other people to do to me.

13:28 I can agree with that.

13:30 Difficult Ridgedale barrier between social liberalism and fiscal conservatism. It sounds very easy, but it's really complicated. And there are times when I struggled a perfect example. For me is immigration. I'm the beneficiary of the opportunity to immigrate to the us and that has been a blessing.

14:05 Had it not been for the fact that England would not allow Jews to emigrate to Israel. I would have been an Israeli citizen, but has results. I'm here at American citizenship. I think immigration. It was very important to me, but it was done in a way that was legal and I have struggled with the people who I think legitimately one chicken the grade to the US for economic reasons, but who end up having to cross the border illegally. And and and that upsets me my upset. Perhaps is more about our lack over 40 years that I could think of.

14:58 Of making good immigration laws that make sense. And this is where I disagree with both parties because I think every single Administration has avoided doing that.

15:16 But anyways, that's sort of part of my political values. I'm not sure that I want to go into too much at this point in order to keep with the rules.

15:28 It seems like we both have problems with the post political parties. I never heard that about anyone. How does it happen that they got to make that decision about where you could go.

15:40 If you ever saw the movie Exodus of the British ruled over that area in order to appease the Arabs, I guess they said no Jews to emigrate so happened that my father was in Israel at the time. He had been inducted into an army of foolish Nationals from Russia ended up in Israel. And that's how we got reunited, a very long story without getting into too much detail, because my mother and I were to DP camp and he was in Israel and so he would have brought us to Israel, but he couldn't. And so, rather than the US.

16:37 And I still feel today even though I have great ties to the US and and and feel very good. Real talk about the u.s., In the back of my head is I think, is in the back of anybody who has had any family member died in the Holocaust. And most of my family were killed. Is the idea that there's police at least one place in the world where a wind that add to Summit. It is that happens here, which we assume eventually, we'll cuz it happens everywhere and at least we can go to Israel.

17:26 I don't know what to say about that. Really hot issues in that and I don't really want to go there but

17:41 My background is my grandparents emigrated from Denmark and Sweden. So you all have their own choice and came here for economic reasons. My father's family had a farm in South Dakota and my mother's father kept a store in a little town in Iowa. So we haven't been here, very long, but we didn't comment under duress, you know, fully by their choice and

18:13 This is where we are.

18:19 This is I think that the hard part is, how do we go beyond the original questions and

18:29 What were, what were the things that you are hoping to gain in terms of talking to somebody who got it somewhat different perspective.

18:38 I see it. Well, as I said it, the first I feel like people don't bother to communicate with each other anymore. I'm a big fan of Facebook, way too much time there. And in the last election cycle. I was just really discouraged about the lack of Civility on both sides, and it was just, it seemed a little bit insane. So, I just wanted, I wanted to talk to you or whoever was found for me to talk to and ask each other questions aren't about each other and just find some stability.

19:22 I have to agree with you about that lately. I don't pay that much attention to Facebook, but I do get notified and my cousin who recently made Aliyah to Israel that has Heat.

19:39 Emigrated to Israel because of his children and grandchildren. Haven't been. There is, is the worst example of a of that kind of behavior. He post things with numerous profanities about that the prior president, and that can it be a constructive conversation. If the only thing you can say about is he stupid and ugly. Yeah, then you know what? It's not a beauty contest. Yeah, I agree.

20:29 I would like to ask something about from your bio that the clear difference between a socialist and a capitalist society, and I was wondering if you could elaborate on that for me as everything that I've seen repeatedly except for certain very, very unique ideas with small populations such as into a situation where there's some sort of major meritocracy usually in the political system and and you still end up with the Haves and Have Nots. It just changes how you get there and you know the foot the perfect example was the Soviet Union. Another example is Cuba, you know, those are the

21:29 The far ends of it, but I think the generally speaking people are like, nowadays, were thinking more and more. Well, in order to have a good social benefits. You have to get rid of capitalism and reduced its back to socialism, and in my observations in history, that just doesn't work. Now, whether our form of democracy is liable for another three hundred years. I don't know. That may need some tweaking, but I think that the idea that you can get you a position of getting, from all, according to their ability, to all according to their needs is a foolish idea.

22:21 Or we seem to have a hybrid right now of the Socialist, in a capitalist Society. Because we have so many programs going back to Social Security that have helped everybody, regardless of their ability to help themselves are not equal. That's for sure. But this was one thing that we are kind of guaranteed because we live in this country. I mean, that's the whole point is how to develop that kind of hybrid without destroying. The underlying system is, is, is not easy and my fault that I fought the politicians who in my observation regardless of party are much more interested in re-election and that means who's going to contribute to their campaign other than they are in what is really for the benefit of people.

23:21 And so then, I mean just a idea that you have.

23:26 Passed legislation that has thousands and thousands of pages on the day before the deadline. So nobody can read them. Just that in itself is infuriating to me and this whole business of allowing the corporations to be represented, and I shouldn't be, they should be representing us. That's what they were designed to do. Right then. And there you go on both sides because it's on the Progressive side that they've been doing. So many of those large documents done at the very last minute, and it's on the conservative side that they've gone citizens united to make a corporation's equal to individuals. And it's it's frustrating because I think that

24:17 You would wish that the people in power would have the best interest of everybody at heart.

24:27 Do you think it's possible to fix it?

24:31 Well, I had an idea.

24:34 Maybe three election Cycles ago. I actually got promoted at the bed but it didn't get any traction. And that is, my idea is to is for the population to have a contract among themselves to vote against every incumbent regardless of what you think about them. And if we did it in about three or four election Cycles incumbents would learn that, the reason that they're being voted is to help us and and but, you know, it's it's the pie in the sky idea. Well you have so many bureaucracies to make decisions about these kinds of things. So you don't have much, hope it must be another way to send a message without involving them so much.

25:30 Could think of one. But the problem is that what I find so frequently, is that everyone? So many people? Agree that they are terrible, but my congressman mine until he was finally gone. I never said it was crazy. That's but that's I think that was

26:06 So, currently away from this whole cancel movement is the idea that that when somebody does something or says something that is disagreeable or pour raw that that invalidates everything, they've done their whole life to the point. To some schools Banning books that that have been classic because they happened to hit your Mark Twain type books because they happen to have the n-word in it instead of saying hey look at this that this here's a guy who was really a very the pro.

27:06 Rights in a sentence for his era. If you wrote a book about a young white boys, taking going to helping a runaway slave. Oh, but he having to use the n-word which was the right the correct word that I have to look at it in context. Slippery slope, isn't it in your people who disagree with politically? But who made one little mistake and they're out there. That's very distressing.

27:57 We all make mistakes are part of life inside. Tell them is that if, if you've never made a mistake in your life, that really means that you've never succeeded in life. Because in fact, it was a wonderful talk by somebody. So who touched that that her father when she was asked about her. She attributed, her great success, and I remember who it was, she said that the everyday when she came home or work.

28:41 60.

28:44 He said that he will try you just you just broke up. Could you say that again? We lost you there for a moment. Yes. Yeah. So this woman in an interview said, what was asked, what did she learn from her father? And she said, her father would ask her everyday when she came home from school or from work. What, how many mistakes did you make today? And if she said none, he said, well, you really weren't trying, you weren't paying attention to, that means, you got to be making some mistakes, and I think that's very important. That's very valid.

29:29 What is it better to have tried to do something? And fail than not. Try to do anything and succeeded?

29:38 Can I have a feeling we agree on more than we showed in an interview like this, but tell me, tell me how you feel about the media and how they are putting their message out and and you know, it didn't always used to be the news was pretty much cut-and-dried. But now it there's all kinds of things attached to it emotions and things that maybe shouldn't be there. How do you feel about all of that? I guess we're going to agree again. I suspect again. A few few months ago. I was listening to NPR Better or Worse, even though I don't agree with a lot of their politics, at least it gives much more of the straightforward news than any of the other media, but I wish they had a whole Forum about

30:31 Should reporting be untainted by personal bias. And I think the conclusion was know that that reporters have the right and should present their personal bias. Which infuriated me. I have the same problem. I was raised in New York and Brooklyn. I remember when I could get the New York Times and read it and feel confident that the news that they reported was valid news and they would leave their opinions to the editorial page, that no longer is true of any medium that I'm aware of. There is bias. Inserted repeatedly, my interest is a beastly said, is Israel and Jewish issues and no just repeatedly the kind of distortions that are made in the media.

31:31 And in the big trick in the immediate is the use of headlines. And first paragraph. You will read a headline. That sounds like this person.

31:45 Hit his grandmother over the head over and then in the fourth paragraph you will see you will see something that is totally the opposite. But the purse and nobody wants to take the time to investigate. They just go for that, headline and move on.

32:08 Another problem I have with media is signing their paychecks and are they, are they not pushing their agenda in know the time?

32:22 Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that that's that's off to a lizard. A big problem is, I mean

32:30 The print media has been a problem for a long time for a variety of reasons. And not the least of, which is that figure out a way to you to make money, but then the online media television show, many people get what they think, is there news of the Twitter and, and, and tiktok and all those real.

33:09 So, I don't know what's going to happen with all the

33:13 Think that sooner allowed to have a positive outlook, and I think that sooner or later things will settle down, but self-correcting. Well, if it happened this way, it it evolved from simple news to Sensational news. And I guess there's no reason that it can't change again, somehow maybe for the better. You know, I have a question. Can, I'm curious if you could talk about the politics, you were raised with. Because you said that at one point in college, you were a socialist, your father, really disagreed with you. So I'm curious about the politics you were raised with and then your own political Journey from socialism to where you are now.

34:00 Sure. Well, I think my parents like most New York immigrants Jewish immigrants were Democrats. I think that you're pretty consistently they voted that way. Although I don't believe they voted party ticket, gold, Sometimes some places you get a chance to just click the party and vote for every candidate. I think they did vote for individual candidates. So that for example, Jacob Javits was very liberal, Jewish Senator, and I'm sure they voted for him. Even though he was a Republican and

34:47 And shield Dex. That's how I was raised in. And then, in high school and college City, I was clearly at socialist, leanings and end. So, even though my father, my parents were Democrat, it was with those strong socialist leanings. That my father disagree, when I came home and talked about those because of his experience in a socialist environment. He had actually been when we were in the slave, labor camp, he was offered the opportunity to

35:26 To become a commissar. He gives us an electric chemical engineer by training, and they wanted to build a he refused because he knew what would happen to Jews in Russia when when they couldn't join the Communist party anyway, eventually, once he was no longer necessary. They would figure out a way to get rid of them. And that's how we ended up going into the

35:59 Russian army and went to ended up in Israel. And so, he said he was very concerned about the values of taking care of people, helping people that need to be up. And you also understood that the pitfalls of a true socialist Marx this kind of situation, and and I like most kids rebuild a bit. When I didn't go in the direction of being opposite from him, but you're going to too far from his perspective. But again he

36:40 Encourage me to do the studies at a funny experience along those lines. Because when I was in the air, from when I went into the air force of the government spent thousands, thousands of dollars checking me out, because of the fact that I had been a member of the Socialist Workers Party at some point. And finally relented and let me, let me join, but they're gradually in my 30s or so. I became more and more. Fiscally conservative. I don't see, I would like to say,

37:22 That I'm ready to vote for the best candidate in any situation.

37:31 In practice, I've ended up loading, pretty consistently, Republican or a little bit more libertarian. But again, that's gotten so distorted. Now, not only in the, in the media book by actually the politicians who say they are libertarian. That this is very difficult. I'm not sure if I answered your question, but where I am about to do with your politics,

38:13 Well, I'm really really bummed out that we've paid. Lots of taxes to support a military and that our whole economy seems to be based on that military and there's so much money there that could be down to do good.

38:31 And from what I read and have learned, you know, it's not about bringing freedom and democracy to these old countries. It's all about their resources back to World War. It was about oil because the military's were converting from Steam to to oil, to run their machinery. And the, the railroad being built from

38:55 Bosphorus Istanbul. What that wasn't for elegant club cars. That was deprince for toil and it seems like this is where we are. We're just feeding this huge War Machine.

39:09 As if you protested against Vietnam, when you were in college, I did. I was very busy. I was an art student, but I work very hard. I spent a lot of nights up. So that's for my heart was but I didn't get physically involved in it. Where I did was a rock.

39:32 My husband and I went to Washington. We went to vigils and protests everywhere. We spent money. We wrote letters and we knew we knew it was lies and it was just so discouraging that no one else wanted to dig a Little Deeper ask questions. I just jumped on the Juggernaut and let's go bomb and rock, you know, the people living their families with children like us, you know, and it's okay to bomb. I'm sorry, they were lies and

40:03 I was very involved with that. I was number of the marches in Washington who is involved, are still somewhere. Have a picture of Harry Belafonte at the head of the March. Remember vividly? Actually did remember you that the one of those marches was walking through marching to a black neighborhood and having many of the black residents, be angry with us for causing trouble and something a message. It's going to cost them more trouble. Reading a lot of Vietnam, veterans. My my, my problem with that was the way in which they were being treated when they came home.

41:03 Wasn't their choice. So that's that's where where I was with all of that. But I think the The military-industrial Establishment to do that again, it might upset with all of the politicians and the fact that they're lying to us. In order to get reelected to go to use the funds in some way. I had a dear friend. When I lived in Houston pediatrician who came from, what from a smaller town Beaumont told me about his mother, who would say, you know,

41:41 So and so he was a congressman. I knew him when he was a kid. He not very wealthy family and I don't understand how you manage to have such a big help on a start asking questions. Real question. Sometimes when Congress appropriates billions of dollars for, for it for jets, that the Air Force says, they don't want because that's the plant is in their neighborhood.

42:31 Born.

42:34 And I'm curious how that impacted your own kind of political or social views.

42:42 You know, I was a captain in the Air Force, when you're there was the draft and you have to go in no matter what. And I could have allowed myself to be drafted as a private or go in as a physician and I were in his position and I would stations at a small bass and and it was sort of like mash in terms of, you know, I had free rein to do whatever I want. So I'm not sure that affected me your whole lot from a political point of view, is one thing that affected me, I may have something to do with this issue. At that is, it was in the days of Lyndon, Johnson and Lady Bird was very much into beautifying America, and I was on this old world war base and half of the building for old and dilapidated with. And put, they had never gotten any fun to do the two.

43:42 The first is every August and I could they didn't spend the money. They wouldn't get the same amount of money. We lost you again there for a minute. Could you repeat yourself, please?

44:05 Every August at the base would try to spend as much money as they possibly could, because in September, the new budget would come out. And if they didn't spend the money, they wouldn't get it appropriate for next year. But when late for Johnson was planning to come to have been half of the buildings, were supposed to be torn down when later bird was supposed to come, they did not tear down the building instead. They arranged to the paint all of these buildings that were going to be turned down for her visit of beautifying America. They painted all the buildings and then to their Chagrin, they discovered that the people who did the painting were non-union painters, and Lyndon Johnson was very Union. And so, they rehired to repaint all the buildings and the union painters had one.

45:01 Harrison paint and one person supervised, and the person supervisor to stand there and watch the other person tank and that really, really backed up the kind of socialism that I'm very very opposed to so so that that didn't affect my political biases. Then, yes.

45:24 So we have about 5 minutes left. I've put the closing questions in the chat. If you want to ask each other one, or both of those.

45:33 Okay. Well, is there anything you learned about me today? That surprise you?

45:39 That you wrote a book.

45:46 I didn't know what to expect and I'm very pleased to meet you. I don't know if you are, who I expected you to be, but I'm very happy to have met you and had the chance to talk to you. Well, for me just to answer that. Same question. I sort of expected more controversy. And so I don't know what that was the selection process for what not. Or whether people who sign up for these things are more like the kind of people. I wish I had much more access to I think maybe that's what I was hoping to adult conversation. It would be

46:36 It would be nice to be able to have these kinds of conversations on a regular basis and where you can burn from one another and in the process, expand your horizons, excellently, so I didn't know what to expect in. So I'm pleased with the result.

47:06 Thank you.