Bob Ireland and Ryan Gardner

[00:05] BOB IRELAND: Hi, my name is Bob Ireland. I'm 69 years old. Today's date is July 9, 2022. I am a storycorps, virtually. I am in the storycorps virtual recording booth. And I'm here with Ryan, my one small step conversation partner. Looking forward to it.

[00:23] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah. And my name is Ryan Gardner. I am 25 years old, and I'm also looking forward to this conversation with Bob.

[00:38] BOB IRELAND: Okay. Hi, my name is Ryan. I've lived in the midwest city, Oklahoma City, my entire life. I'm 25. I have a fairly liberal values. I lost my brother when I was ten to a car accident. You'll have to forgive my emotionality at times. He was 16 and had received his driver's license only a month before his passing. This affected me dramatically for years following. I don't think I ever fully recovered until my senior year of high school. Did I start to break out of the depression that resulted from his death? And let me follow and say my eternal sympathies.

[01:25] RYAN GARDNER: I appreciate that. I do. Born in Georgia, spent 35 year plus in Miami, 40 plus years as a security consultant. Bob's biggest concern is that people comment on issues about which they don't know the truth in the whole story. The problems we are facing are exceptionally complicated, and I believe there is not one single solution, but a necessity to attempt to understand as much of the complexity as possible in order to reach appropriate solutions. Did you have any questions in regards to my bio, or would you prefer me?

[02:03] BOB IRELAND: No, I guess I will ask, how is life in Oklahoma City? Since that's one area of the country that I've never had occasion to visit.

[02:16] RYAN GARDNER: Most people that live here would say, you don't have much reason to come here, but it's hot right now. That was actually something that I was discussing earlier, but it's been over 100 for the past. I'd say, like three or four weeks solid and hasn't really dropped anywhere beneath that. And it's been incredibly warm. As someone who has to work out in the heat, I do physical labor outside for my job. It's not right, to say the least. Did you like what it says here? So you're in Florida, I imagine.

[02:48] BOB IRELAND: No, actually, I'm in South Carolina. So I moved from Georgia to south. To Miami and spent all that time down there and then ended up moving to South Carolina. I'm not going to go into the details about my wife, but she. Her job was changing functionality slightly, and she said, I'm not learning something new. So we looked around at every major city in the southern states. And finally decided on Greenville Spartanburg area. And so we're in Spartanburg, and thankfully, it's not quite as hot here as it is in Oklahoma City.

[03:32] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah, I can imagine. What made you guys decide to choose that area?

[03:37] BOB IRELAND: We looked at every major city in the southern states, north and South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, north of Orlando. And our attitudes, personalities, and knowing the area, this just seemed like the best fit for us. We bought a 1940 farmhouse, and I. I'm currently sort of retired, so my biggest job is the restoration of the farmhouse.

[04:09] RYAN GARDNER: Oh, that's cool. Sorry, I'm trying to think as the follow up from that.

[04:17] BOB IRELAND: Take your time.

[04:19] RYAN GARDNER: Let me think that circumstance, South North Carolina. And that comes along with the values that you would share as to why you would have moved there, in regards to why you would. So that area sits with your values, or is this an area that you think fits with you locally?

[04:35] BOB IRELAND: A little of both. Less the former and more the latter. Having grown up in Georgia, central Georgia, I was born in Atlanta, raised in Macon. I am a southerner at heart, and this area just felt right, I guess, is the best way for me to answer that.

[04:59] RYAN GARDNER: Okay, fair enough. Um, yeah, in my circumstance, I've lived here in Oklahoma. I'm only 25. I've only lived so many lives, but, uh, I've been here pretty much my entire life. Lived pretty much in the exact same spot this entire time. I've always imagined the idea of moving, but I can't really. I can't picture it. I've only been out of the state maybe three or four times myself. And one was to New York, one was to London, England. And then a day, while we were on that trip to England, we went to France for a day. And I was forgetting that I'd been, I think, to South Carolina when I was two different times. One when I was a lot younger on a vacation, and another time when my grandmother had passed, which is about four years ago or so, which. That wasn't a fun drive. We. We had driven it, my father and I, essentially, the whole way in one trip. It's about 17 hours from here to there. And we didn't go to sleep at all. We didn't stop at all. He wanted to do it all in one go, and we did. He. Part of that was, he had said, if you can't fall asleep. And I was like, why can't I fall asleep? I'm not the one driving. Like, if you fall asleep, I fall asleep. So you can't fall asleep. So I was like, yeah, okay. Fair enough. And so that was really tough, having to keep myself awake that entire time without, especially when, you know you want to. And I could, but I didn't want to kind of put any extra pressure on him or anything like that with here me falling asleep, maybe making him fall asleep. But, yeah, she was a yemenite. I think she was born in South Carolina, and so that was where they ultimately ended up marrying her. And all that kind of stuff was taking her back there. She was probably my favorite family member out of everyone that I had. So it sucked when she passed, ultimately, between stuff happens, ultimately, you, as you learn, like, as mentioned in my bio, when he passed at the age of ten, for me, like, you learn a lot about death, especially at such a young age that it made that a lot easier to process. But she had had dementia for probably about four to six years or something along those ends. And so it was kind of one of those just slow kind of petering outs as time went on that eventually you knew it was going to happen. It was just a matter of when it was going to happen, ultimately. But, yeah, so.

[07:40] BOB IRELAND: Many times driving a.

[07:43] RYAN GARDNER: Couple times.

[07:46] BOB IRELAND: With my father when I was very young, he would. He would tell me the same thing. He goes, okay, son, you can't fall asleep because.

[07:54] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah, tired. Right.

[07:57] BOB IRELAND: And in reference to your grandmother. My mother, actually, my father's second wife. I'm adopted. My father's second wife died from Alzheimer's. And so I have a very close personal understanding of how that works, unfortunately.

[08:17] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah.

[08:18] BOB IRELAND: For.

[08:21] RYAN GARDNER: Like, most summers, you know, she would have been the one that would have been taking care of me. And so it was a lot of time that I ultimately ended up spending with her. And she was one of those types of people that, being a grandmother, she really wanted to make sure that all of us were loved and cared for, and she wouldn't have really. She didn't have a lot of expectations as to what you really would have been doing. So it was kind of one of those relationships that as long as, you know, you were still being a good kid, like, she was going to love you unconditionally and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, it was just. It was a hard time just kind of seeing, because, you know, you have those conversations, like, with someone who's experiencing either Alzheimer's or dementia as the years go on, that, like, at first it's just, they forget a few things, but then as time goes on, it gets to that point where you start asking, like, do you know who I am? Do you? Do you recognize me? Like, do you? At one point, uh, probably about, like, three or four years. And I did ask her that because they'll just kind of look at you, you know, like they'll just kind of look at you with a somewhat blank stare and be like they're having a hard time recognizing who you were. And she did that. And around that time, I think I'd asked her, I was like, do you know who I am? And she went, yeah, yeah, I know who you are. And I went, okay. But she never said my name or anything, so I was kind of under the impression that maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but maybe she thought it was my dad. And, you know, there's no telling, but it was getting to that point where it's just. It was kind of hard to be around her because just knowing that so much of who she was and how she had taken care of me for so long just wasn't there anymore. But, yeah.

[10:14] BOB IRELAND: I do appreciate that. My mom's illness was much, much harder on my father than it was anyone else around, and he struggled with that quite, quite a bit. So I do have some appreciation for what you're talking about.

[10:34] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah. What made you want to do this, Bob? How did you hear about it?

[10:42] BOB IRELAND: I've been following storycorps for quite a long time. Can't tell you when all that started, but as I said in my bio, and I had also written another one, I'm kind of disappointed that that one didn't show up. But I want to make every attempt to understand. I don't want to point up, my father, I understand, was extremely adamant that there would be no prejudice in our family, period. It was nothing going to happen. So as I've gotten older, I have made every attempt to judge the book by the contents and not by the COVID The only prejudice that I have up front is with stupidity. That said, I have friends from all walks of life. My first college roommate was from Isfahan, Iran. He referred to himself as Persian. By virtue of what I do, I'm a studier. I actually read a significant portion of the Quran, or a translation thereof. I do not speak Arabic. In fact, my brain does not work for languages, so don't even attempt it for fear of butchering something. But I want to make every attempt to try to understand the world and the people in it. And I do have a bit of an issue with people that are closed minded and make assumptions. As Julia mentioned kind of in the introduction, I don't see you as anything other than Ryan, who I want to know more about. Does that answer your question?

[13:25] RYAN GARDNER: No, it definitely does. I think what stuck out to me about what you were saying was like, the prejudice in regards to you can't stand somebody who's prejudiced. And what is an example of something like that that would bother you, if you don't mind my asking, just out of anybody.

[13:54] BOB IRELAND: Based on what I do, a lot of people think that Arabs and Muslims are inherently evil people, and that could not be further from the truth. But to make that assumption about an individual based on a their belief be what they look like is totally inappropriate as far as I'm concerned. Does that answer your question?

[14:28] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah, that answers my question. So in regards to what we would say, how do you feel about otherwise, the, the border crisis as it is right now in the United States and how people react to that?

[14:45] BOB IRELAND: That is an incredibly complex question.

[14:49] RYAN GARDNER: It is.

[14:50] BOB IRELAND: The answer to that is incredibly complex. The question is very simple. I believe that we're dealing with the border incorrectly in a whole host of ways. The people that are making attempts to come across the border, I believe, need to be vetted in a much different way than they are. The people that come across the border are not inherently bad. There was a sign, and I'll just offer this anecdote, there was a significant crisis with food harvesting because the border was closed. And there are very, by the way, I commend you for your work ethic, even though I don't know what you do, but we'll get to that shortly, I hope. But there are very few individuals in this country that want to harvest tomatoes or any other produce. And I, the immigrants were quite willing to do that for a very low wage. And as soon as the border got closed, and this is quite a few years ago, as soon as the border got closed, there was a very, there was a major crisis there. So we need to be working more closely with the people that want to come over to try and ascertainous their reasons for coming over. The situation with the separation of children and parents was a travesty. And I think that the majority of that was done without due process or consideration.

[16:44] RYAN GARDNER: I would agree with.

[16:45] BOB IRELAND: That answers your question.

[16:47] RYAN GARDNER: It does, yeah. I tend to agree generally with the premise of everything that you're saying in regards to the border. I think more so in regards to what would be, what would you see is the proper way to handle or react to that circumstance? Because obviously, right now, in the way that we kind of look at it, like with many issues right now in the United States, it seems like there's a right and a wrong answer to everything. So you have to look at the border as a means of, well, these people just shouldn't be here, whether or not they're, you know, trying to escape persecution or they're just trying to find a better livelihood or whatever the case may be. What is it from your perspective that should be done to change that perception or just kind of like what you're saying, change the process of how we're vetting people and allowing them into the country?

[17:46] BOB IRELAND: Oh, I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that question.

[17:49] RYAN GARDNER: You don't have to be.

[17:55] BOB IRELAND: The. I have some very close friends, one of which whose affairs I manage here in the states, in the State Department, the interview process for entry into the US is not where it should be. There are many things that state has to do and in a lot of cases, the southern border, the mexican border is not, State Department's not involved, it's DHS or their contained organization of Border Patrol are doing all the interviews. And I'm not comfortable with the fact that those people are properly trained to deal with the interview process. Just my thoughts on it. I know two people in border patrol and one at DHS, and their functionality, under my observation, does not lend itself easily to being able to do what is necessary to ascertain whether this person is trying to escape persecution or whether they may be a threat to someone or something here.

[19:37] RYAN GARDNER: Right. Any mean, like in regards to like the interview processes themselves in regards to how they're interviewing these individuals. Because I know, I think I've heard at different points that when some of these individuals are getting interviewed and trying to come into the country, that the interview process can be done in such a way that they don't even have proper representation to, like in the case, if they can't speak English and the only person who's capable of interviewing them speaks English, and there's no, there's a language barrier there of which they can't actively speak to one another, that most of those people just get shucked back out at the end of the day rather than actually being allowed the appropriate process to get into the country. Is that kind of what you're discussing?

[20:24] BOB IRELAND: Kind of. And at the risk of turning over a significant pile of manure here, one of the problems I see is that the finances are misappropriated throughout the government and there's not enough money available to train these people or have the interview process run. At the risk of sounding silly correctly.

[20:56] RYAN GARDNER: Sure. Yeah, I get what you're saying.

[21:04] BOB IRELAND: All right, based on the suggestion here by Miss Julia, and I kind of hesitate to do this, but that's okay. We'll see. Talk to me about your personal political values that you particularly feel is very important to you relative to your political values.

[21:28] RYAN GARDNER: All kinds of stuff as of, especially most recently with the stuff that's been happening with the Supreme Court. Like, I'm not, I'm not afraid or I'm not afraid to express what my political values are or to share those with somebody else, even if they do happen to be on the other end of the that political aisle slightly. What I had spoke with our facilitator beforehand was the idea that, like, I work with a lot of guys that I would say don't fit into the same bucket as me in regards to perspectives and political beliefs and all that kind of stuff. But my goal with working with them was not to just not talk to them and to ignore them, or whatever the case may be. It was to try and understand why they believed what they believed. And so in understanding what they believed, it would be easier for myself to accept them as individuals and not look at them as the other, which typically seems to be happening right now. And so for me, in regards to political beliefs, I will say I lean more in regards to liberal values. Um, but I understand that from the other side, there's a lot of really extreme things that some liberals might say that I don't entirely agree with. Um, but at the same time, I would say there are a lot of things that are happening right now that a lot of conservatives would be saying that I, you know, for lack of a better word, abhor. And it's not to say that I abhor those people or what their beliefs are, but I think to kind of bounce off of what the bio that we have here for you has read. Bob, I don't know that many people really understand the full breadth of what they want and how that's truly going to affect people. At the end of the day, I think there are a lot of individuals out there that, and I shouldn't say a lot because I think that is limiting and that it does seem like I am generalizing, perhaps too much, but I think I should refrain and more so say that I think there is a lot of talk going on right now that is more about differences in beliefs as opposed to actually accomplishing good for everybody. And so in the sense of, you know, without getting too into detail in regards to all the stuff that's been recently passed with the Supreme Court, you know, I was talking to some of the individuals I work with, and, you know, the first thing that they had done the week before the overturn of Roe v. Wade was, I think it was like two days prior, they had, I think it was like a religious liberties case. And regards to allowing a young girl to get state or federal funds to go to a private school of her choice, which would have been for. Because that essentially she lived. So ruling that they didn't have a high school for her to go to. And so by virtue of that, there was a program in place, I think it was in Maine, that would allow her to essentially get funds to go to a private school, which happened to be a christian private school, and ruled that it was discrimination. And I would go, yeah, that makes sense. Absolutely. That she would be discriminated against. But looking at that from my perspective, I saw that as that is discrimination. She should be allowed to get funds. But is that not also then the degradation of, you know, the idea of separation of church and state? And then you jump to the gun ruling the day after that with New York, and then you jump to Roe v. Wade, and then you jump to the ruling with the high school teacher being able to pray, excuse me, high school football coach or whatever, and then you jump to everything that's happened this week. It's just there's been a very large swing in regards to what the Supreme Court has been allowed to do. And I do find that a bit upsetting just in regards to. I don't think that these are things that I'm not sure why we are legislating these things when there are so many other things in the world right now that are going on that I think would be much more lend a much more cost benefit than just talking about culture and arguing about culture and what we believe is right or what we believe is wrong. Because I think that's where we start getting separated more and more is. Well, I believe this. And you believe that instead of trying to find the common ground on issues that actually affect each other on a day to day basis, like gas prices or inflation or any number of these different things, why is it that we are focusing so much on these fringe issues, in my opinion, that are just meant to rile each other up? If that answers your question, I know that was very long winded.

[27:09] BOB IRELAND: No, no, no. Thank you. I appreciate that, those observations. So a couple of things. Number one, the Supreme Court is not legislative. They are a law organization, and they are charged with upholding the Constitution. And if you have not read the constitution. I would encourage you to read it. It took me at least six times reading it to comprehend all of it. I'm not the sharpest tack in the box. I have read all three of the rulings that you described, and I. The slight total of almost 500 pages between the three rulings. And they all point to the Constitution. They all point back to the Constitution. And the New York Gun association versus the state. The. Actually, one of the ones you mentioned. I did. I have not read. The other one that I read was West Virginia environmental versus the Environmental Protection Agency.

[28:40] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah.

[28:41] BOB IRELAND: Particularly agree with that. However, that ruling generally limits the power of bureaucracy opposed to following the law. And the other one is Roe versus Wade. So the New York state ruling and Roe versus Wade are both hearkening back to what does the constitution say?

[29:09] RYAN GARDNER: Right.

[29:11] BOB IRELAND: So that's where I am relative to those particular issues. In reference to the coach, I believe that it is my understanding, and I may be wrong about this, that the coach did not say, okay, boys, we're going to pray. Coach himself knelt down on the field and prayed.

[29:33] RYAN GARDNER: Right.

[29:34] BOB IRELAND: And that caused a problem with the school board. Personally, I don't see a problem with that. That was his right to do that. This is my opinion. Was his right to do that. Just like it's my right to. If I want to sit down at a meal out in public and I want to pause and bow my head and fold my hands at the beginning of the meal, that should be my right and it shouldn't be anyone else's. He did not, again, as I understand it, he did not require or entice any of the ball players to follow his lead.

[30:10] RYAN GARDNER: Right.

[30:14] BOB IRELAND: In reference to the. To the public versus private school. I have real mixed emotions about that. I think that. That teeters on the border of separation of church and state. However, education is a privilege and nothing. Right. There is nothing in any of our history, any of the United States history, that says that you are owed an education by the state being either the municipal, county, physical state or the Fed. So. But with that in mind, I think that if you want to select your school and you are not availing yourself of the money that's appropriated for you to go to public school, that you should be allowed to use that money for other purposes. Again, my opinion.

[31:24] RYAN GARDNER: Sure. Yeah, I get you. I know we start talking so much and we go off for a while that you think of a question, and by the time.

[31:37] BOB IRELAND: If while I'm talking, you think of a question, raise your hand, because I'm fine to stop and listen to you.

[31:43] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah, because I had one and I forgot it. That's all it was.

[31:46] BOB IRELAND: Okay. Well, hopefully it'll come to you. I actually have a question. I'm curious, so it sounds like you.

[31:54] RYAN GARDNER: Disagree a bit on this point, and.

[31:56] BOB IRELAND: I'm wondering if there's a person or an experience that you've had. Which point? Oh, just in general, like the rulings.

[32:06] RYAN GARDNER: On the Supreme Court, it sounds like.

[32:07] BOB IRELAND: You view the recent decisions differently.

[32:11] RYAN GARDNER: And so I'm curious if there's a person or an experience that you've had that you feel like marked your worldview or impacted the lens through which you have viewed those Supreme Court decisions.

[32:26] BOB IRELAND: Right?

[32:30] RYAN GARDNER: Not exactly. Like, if you mean in the sense of, like, is there somebody personally that I know in my life that, like, I've grown up around or anything like that that's been influential on my political views in regards to that stuff? Not exactly. If you mean in like, the larger realm of is there somebody who's influenced me that's on the more global scale? Like, you know, am I going to say that any president or something like that were to have influenced me to have the beliefs that I have? I'd say not really. A lot of my political beliefs, I think, were always based in honestly, an upbringing. I think that's kind of where most people's political beliefs start. Both my parents have fairly liberal values, and I just kind of grew up with that as well. And I think that's natural. I think that's just kind of part of the way that things are. But I was never encouraged by either of my parents to sharing their values. I was never told that you have to be this way or you have to be that way. I was free to kind of listen to things that they may listen to or listen to things myself and kind of take my own opinions and belief structures with that. Like, I get in regards to my, like, absorption of the news and like, the daily comings and goings of things. Like, I just watch PBS. Like, that's all it is. Like, I watch PBS Newshour every day and I'm not even taking what they're saying without, you know, there being a full grain of salt. I listened to most of those individuals that they have on whether they be guests or what have you, and I tend to agree with some things that some people say on the more conservative side of things, and I tend to agree with some things that people say on the more liberal side of things on regards to many of the issues that end up getting discussed. But I do at least in regards to Supreme Court, I tend to have a view and a lens of things in my own opinion, that I try to view things from a perspective of fairness for most individuals. And that's kind of where, when you start looking at the belief perspective of most things in regards to government, I think it's very hard to legislate, or in the case of the Supreme Court, where it's not necessarily legislating. It's more, you know, making judgments on different things and the law and the Constitution, as Bob mentioned, I understand the necessity in having to make those decisions based on a foundation of rules and understandings and what this country would have been based on. But at the same time, I also think there has to be room to at least experiment a bit and kind of expand what we want to the Constitution to be and what we want it to represent, rather than setting it on this kind of immovable, everything must be based in this framework because there's a lot of things that that framework did not intend or did not necessarily have answers for, and that's what amendments are for. And we don't really do those all that often. And I, I think if it was more of a, I think if we accepted a little bit more, that it's not so scary to potentially add amendments, not literally every day, but at least have discussions about the ideas of, like, do we think truly right now that women have, like, full sovereignty over their own bodies? With the Roe v. Wade case, I would say I don't think they do. And that to me is, again, coming from it, from the perspective of a fairness issue, I go, that does not seem fair to women to not have a decision over what they decide to do with their own bodies. And at the same time, from the perspective of the fetus, I understand how some would say, well, it doesn't seem fair to that fetus either. So I get both perspectives on that. But that's where the discussion then comes around to what is most fair for both individuals in this case. And there comes that point where to me, the ruling that was had was relatively fair and that you could have abortions up and do a point, and now that's not, now that's not guaranteed anymore.

[37:24] BOB IRELAND: Interesting. So to answer Julia's question, first, number one, I was born and raised a Catholic, and I tell people I'm a good Catholic boy. Well, two out of three, it's not bad. But my father had a thirst for knowledge. He always wanted to know different things and all about anything he could get his hands on. And his mind around. I'll read you three quick sentences here from a favorite author of mine, and this kind of filters my view of things. This is Robert Heinlein, science fiction author, and his comment is, what are the facts? Again and again, what are the facts? And to how many decimal places you always pilot into an unknown future. Facts are your single clue. Get the facts. Opinions, from my perspective, have a general tendency to ignore the facts. Roe v. Wade allowed women to take control of their own bodies. If you go back and read that decision, what? It's not the proper word, but what canceling Roe v. Wade did was take that commentary out of law and say, okay, this is the state's.

[39:27] RYAN GARDNER: Decision, and.

[39:30] BOB IRELAND: Therefore the federal government is not going to get involved in the rights of people. And Julia, forgive me, but very silly comment. Women are the highest level of people. So having born and raised a Catholic, I think that abortion is inappropriate except under very specific circumstances. But that having been said, I do absolutely agree with you, Ryan, that if I understood your comment correctly, that it should absolutely be the woman's choice, period.

[40:19] RYAN GARDNER: Right.

[40:20] BOB IRELAND: It not be a government ruling, state or otherwise. It should be up to the individual that has to make that decision as tough and problematic as that decision might be.

[40:39] RYAN GARDNER: Did you have more to say?

[40:41] BOB IRELAND: No, go ahead, please.

[40:43] RYAN GARDNER: Yes, that is generally what I would have been saying. And like I was mentioning earlier, how I work with a lot of guys, I think, that go across that kind of political spectrum. Most of them would agree with what you just said. I don't happen to be a very religious individual. I was never raised that way. I've understood that. My mother, she claims to be religious, but didn't go to church a whole lot, but, you know, she still believes in a God. And both of my grandparents on both sides of my family would have been fairly religious individuals themselves. My father not a particularly religious individual. And neither of my parents really had any expectations for me in regards to going to church every Sunday or, you know, practicing any sort of belief or anything like that. But I understand the concept and that even for me personally, not having a lot of religious beliefs, that I can see that the potential ending of a life when there is so much that could be gained from that life is so important in regards to, like, when people say they are, they're pro life. I agree with that sentiment. And I would say that I'm pro life, too, but not in the sense that it takes away from someone else's life or anything like that. You know, I think the pro life argument tends to, in my opinion attach somewhat to the. The guns conversation we have about guns that, like, if. I think if we were truly pro life, I understand again, like, how it was written into the constitution that people would be able to arm themselves. But if we were truly pro life individuals, we have to look at guns in the way of how guns are distinctly ending people's lives at such a huge rate in the United States, not just, you know, I'm sure the joke has been made many times from lot of different cartoonists and things along those ends, that as soon as they're born, then there goes all the. The fears that we have of their death. And, um, I guess I forgot part of what my point was. I kind of got off onto a tangent. But ultimately, uh, despite not having a lot of religious beliefs, I agree with the pro life sentiment of why that's so important, why that should be important. Important. But when it hinders and takes away from somebody's life and their ability is to a right to choose, then I don't see how we can be arguing on the behalf of somebody who's yet to be born that they are more important than the person who has to go through the birthing of that child.

[43:30] BOB IRELAND: Interesting. So, to address a couple of things. Number one, just because I was born and raised a Catholic does not mean I am religious. And by the way, fair. I don't think that you need to go to church to be religious.

[43:45] RYAN GARDNER: That's fair, too.

[43:47] BOB IRELAND: I am not religious. I am very spiritual. This is, in my own opinion, which is worth exactly what you just paid for it. The nature of spirituality is understanding. Again, this is a gross oversimplification that my right to hit you in the nose ends where your nose begins. Everybody has their own rights and therefore needs to be able to go live their life as they see fit, as long as, again, my opinion, it does not interfere with anyone else's right to do exactly the same thing. Right in reference to guns. I don't want to belabor this point because I understand that guns and anchovies have one thing in common. There are almost. There's no. Almost no individual that is like, okay, I think I might have an anchovy today. Everybody either loves or hates both of those. I will offer this comment for you to consider. We do not look at a vehicle as being an evil tool because someone has had an accident and kills someone else because they were intoxicated. Texting or any other distraction or inappropriate behavior that resulted in the incorrect use of that tool.

[45:34] RYAN GARDNER: I understand. And.

[45:37] BOB IRELAND: And, you know, I can go on and on about that. Again, I'm not going to offer my bona fides relative to any of that, but there are too many things we. Personal opinion. There are too many things that we need to be focusing on other than the tool. And if you look at the numbers, there are far fewer people that are, that die because of the use of one specific tool than there are others. So, you know, you can go investigate that at your leisure.

[46:16] RYAN GARDNER: Yeah, I understand what you're saying in regards to guns. I've had these discussions with others, and you could say arguments with others in regards to. I'm not privy to the idea in my personal belief that it's possible to even remove guns from somebody's hands or anything like that in this country. And I understand the kind of the liberties that people have in regards to arming themselves in this country. I would just like. You're just like, you're saying, just in almost different words, but kind of the same ideas, that there needs to be more of a discussion as to what is the appropriate solution for making sure that people's lives are kept safe. And I'm not saying that that necessarily has to mean that the removal of guns from somebody's hands is the end goal, but if it prevents some people from dying and without doing that, it wasn't going to stop that. I think that at least has to be on the table in some regard or another.

[47:21] BOB IRELAND: Okay, fair enough. So back to my comment about facts earlier. I think we are ignoring some of the root causes in regards to, like.

[47:36] RYAN GARDNER: The mental health and all that kind of stuff.

[47:38] BOB IRELAND: Yeah. And it's, and it's even more than just mental health, but there, there are, you know, again, I'm a root cause person because that's the nature of what I do. And I think we should be concentrating more on the root cause, and I'll just leave it at that. And as a suggestion that Julia offered, what? Anything in particular that gives you hope for the future.

[48:21] RYAN GARDNER: To be fair? Not a lot. And I don't mean to be a downer. I've been very optimistic, I think, in the last couple of weeks. Like, I hadn't mentioned that, you know, my brother had passed, but we got a dog about four months later after he had passed, and that dog just passed. And that coinciding with everything that's been going on right now in regards to the political turmoil that we've got, it's been difficult, but I've still tried to maintain a certain level of optimism in regards to trying to find common ground amongst individuals. Again, why I wanted to do something like this was to try and find and understand the differences that you and I might have, Bob, or, you know, somebody else that I may work with or whatever the case may be. And I can't say right now that there's a lot that gives me hope other than hopefully, things changing in a way that everyone can get along better.

[49:52] BOB IRELAND: Okay. Um, my sympathies in reference to your dog. I'm a dog person. I've had many, many dogs, and, um, their end is always tough. Uh, I have general hope in humanity. I'll offer a very silly quote from men in black. A person is smart. People are stupid. Hopefully the person, Ryan, you and I can prevail, and the people that need to be quiet and listen will do so. And I guess that's about as short and sweet as I can offer it.

[50:59] RYAN GARDNER: Awesome. Is there anything.

[51:01] BOB IRELAND: Is there anything else either of you.

[51:03] RYAN GARDNER: Would like to share for the concept of time? Not exactly. I mean, in regards to. I appreciate you, Bob, and I appreciate you for having had this conversation with me and having sat down and listening to my long winded diatribes. And I just appreciate you, Julia, for allowing us to have the experience.

[51:31] BOB IRELAND: Ditto in capitals. This is quite wonderful experience, and I do appreciate your willingness to participate. Ryan, Julia, thank you so much for being the moderator here and offering some brilliant suggestions, and I hope that we can sally forth, as the british say.

[52:08] RYAN GARDNER: All right.