Bonita Gooch and Robert Wiederstein

[00:01] BONITA GOOCH: My name is Bonita. I am 69 years old. Today is September 16, 2024. I'm in Wichita, Kansas. My one small step partner is Bob.

[00:16] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: And I'm Bob Wiederstein. I'm also 69 years old. Today is September 16, 2024. I am in Wichita, Kansas, and my one step partner is Bonita. Okay, Bonita what made you want to do this interview today?

[00:34] BONITA GOOCH: Good question, Bob. I wanted to do it because, one, just to support the effort, as I figured it would be tough to get people, especially African American people, to step up and get involved. And that's one reason why I wanted to do it. But also I'm interested. I'm interested in getting to know more about other people. And then when I found out it was focused very much on Wichita, I really was excited that I had stepped forward and decided to do it. A very limited number of cities have this opportunity, so I'm so glad Wichita is having this opportunity.

[01:15] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right. Okay.

[01:17] BONITA GOOCH: And so, Bob, what made you want to do this interview today?

[01:21] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I think my concern about the entire climate that we're living in right now with the politics and the divisiveness, I see everything kind of falling apart. It seems like in so many different areas. You can't disagree with somebody without hating them. You can't cooperate and work together to solve problems anymore. It doesn't seem like. And I. I feel like this is an excellent grassroot project to hopefully get people talking together again. Now, if you want to read. Okay. Benita's bio. I am the only surviving member of my original five member family and grew up in Wichita. I have one adult daughter who lives in New York City. I've been in a great relationship with a guy who I think is a keeper. I am spiritually more than religious. I follow politics closely, and I care about the environmental damage we're doing to the world. I enjoy tennis, gardening and dancing. I follow news closely because I'm one of those liberal journalists.

[02:42] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. And I'm gonna read well first if you want to ask about Bonita.

[02:49] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay. From her bio. Okay. So have you. Have you say you grew up in Wichita and you've lost four siblings? Is that what I'm.

[03:02] BONITA GOOCH: I had a family of five. My mom, my dad, and there were three kids.

[03:07] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay.

[03:07] BONITA GOOCH: And I was the third one of the three children.

[03:09] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: And.

[03:09] BONITA GOOCH: But I'm the only one of the original five that's still remaining.

[03:12] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Oh, my. That's. That's hard. And just one adult daughter. Okay. I. I am curious. Spiritual more than religious. Describe that for Me.

[03:31] BONITA GOOCH: I believe that I'm a Christian, but I believe whatever anybody else wants to believe that works for them. As long as it isn't about hurting somebody else, it's okay with me. I think everybody's entitled to their belief. I don't think anyone has the one right answer. I just think that's right and nobody's been there to come back and tell us what happens. So I believe you're just entitled to your belief as I'm entitled to my belief. And so if it works for you, the world is tough enough as it is, whatever works for you to get you through this crazy life that we live, fine. If it works for you, if it's worshiping the bees or whatever, I'm okay with that. So I just think it's more important that you be a good person and, and less than religion. You know, I think that if it's particularly about Christians, is that Christians spend too much time worshiping Jesus instead of trying to be like Jesus. And I think there's so much they built a religion around Jesus and that is not what I believe that Jesus wanted us to do. I think he just wanted us to be good people. I think he's an excellent way shower. We just need to follow his way.

[04:54] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Yeah. Okay, good answer. I like that. Very good. Okay. That is really all I've got right now.

[05:03] BONITA GOOCH: Okay, well, obviously I thought about that one a lot, haven't I? You have feel very strongly about that one. Robert's bio. I'm 69, retired, mailed male, married for 42 years. Okay. Two children, one girl living Escondido, California. One boy living in Bow, New Hampshire. Both children are married for three years with no grandchildren yet. I was born and raised in Kansas, served three years in the U.S. army. I am pro life. I attend Risen Savior Lutheran Church. I feel our country needs to get back to working together to solve our problems and that no party has all the right answers. I also feel immigration laws need to be informed and changed. So you're married for 42 years, two children, one girl. Okay. And so where did you meet this wife and where did you grow up? You said Kansas, but what city?

[06:02] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Actually I was out in Liberal. I was born in Newton and grew up in Liberal. Met my wife on a blind date from that was set up by her sister. I was on the volunteer fire department out there and her sister's husband was also on. He was a full time fireman. And she saw me at one of the gatherings that we had and decided that her sister was going out with somebody she didn't like. And so she was going to set me up with her, and that's what happened. And it just kind of went from there. So it was a rather successful date, I think.

[06:41] BONITA GOOCH: Very good. So what brought you to Wichita and how long have you been in Wichita?

[06:45] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Been in Wichita area. We're kind of the metro area for about 26 years now. I transferred here from Salina, actually, with my job at the time, and ended up changing and going to work for the county here for a number of years before I retired.

[07:08] BONITA GOOCH: What did you do for the county?

[07:09] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I was a commercial property appraiser.

[07:12] BONITA GOOCH: Yeah, you got to have a discussion about appraisal.

[07:15] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Not popular among most people. Right.

[07:19] BONITA GOOCH: You might want to keep that quiet.

[07:20] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right.

[07:23] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. So what's your thoughts about religion, Mr. Risen Savior Lutheran Church.

[07:30] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right. I was raised Lutheran and I believe the Bible. I believe that that should be our guide in life that we could follow. I don't believe in trying to beat people over the head with it. If they want to know more, I'm more than happy to share with them what I believe in the Bible, and that is Jesus Christ as our Savior and he's the only way to our only connection with God. We have to have go through him. I actually agree with you on we should be more like Jesus and not necessarily worship him as much. I fully agree with that. He gave us the example and we should live by that. And I'm a little bit. A lot of times people will hear Lutheran and think, oh, very strict and very regimented and everything else. And I guess I'm a liberal Lutheran because our church is definitely countercultural as far as that goes, because we are more upbeat. We do a lot of the current music, Christian music, is on the radio, and we have views that we want to be out there in the community and doing things and include people that are not part of our church.

[09:00] BONITA GOOCH: And you kind of said you live in. Not necessarily Wichita proper.

[09:04] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Yeah, we live actually in Kiji now.

[09:06] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. Okay. Well, I think it's your turn to ask a question. Whose turn is to ask a question? Okay, go ahead.

[09:15] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay. All right. Okay. We're done with that one, too.

[09:20] BONITA GOOCH: Okay, go ahead. Tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you and what did they teach you?

[09:32] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I'm going to have to say my mother is probably the biggest influence that I've had. She is a Christian woman that has been through trials. She lost three children, two of them in birth and one about six, lived for about six Months with spina bifida and eventually died. She raised three boys and she has given me a spirit of caring for people. The best example I can give on how dedicated she is to that. We were in the hospital in the surgery or ICU waiting room with my father just having gone through brain surgery and of course we didn't know how he was going to come out. We had heard that he had a mild stroke during the surgery. So we were all very concerned about it when another lady walked into the waiting room by herself and she sat by herself and was obviously distraught. And my mother got up and went over to her and sat down with her and talked with her and was able to relate to her and show her the love that she needed at the time. So even though we had a lot going on in our own lives, she was able to go and offer the comfort that she needed. So that showed me a lot as far as taking care of people and being kind to people. That's what we're here for. So she is my biggest influence. So I'll give that back to you then. Tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you.

[11:20] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. Well, you know, of course I think everybody would probably say their parents, most people would say their parents. But I'm going to pick a different person because I mean, obviously my parents taught me an awful lot. I mean obviously that's just how life is. But I meant talk about a person who changed a lot of my perspectives. And this was, I was a early to mid-20s something and out of college on my about second job, full time job out and living in Florida away from home and you know, had had a pretty good life, went through college and you know, everything went and got my master's. So everything's going well for me and come from a middle class family. And I started dating this guy who was similarly situated. In fact, he had gone to a boarding school, you know, and. But what the thing that he taught me was how much good there is in everybody. You know, I think I kind of was, you know, we had been the grown up good kids. You know, our parents were the middle class and we were the proper people and you know, we didn't necessarily do the not so middle class people. You know, you keep these kids with these other kind of people and there are people who are just like them and so that they'll grow up to be great people and not be influenced by these bad people. But you know, this guy would talk to anybody of any, I mean from here to up, you know, and he just taught me, you know, not that, just what the value is of everybody and how there was. And when I told my mother that, she says, well, we didn't raise you that way. I said, maybe you didn't or you didn't think you did, but that's what I got out of it. And I, you know, I kind of was one of these that I just wanted to be around my kind of people, but just learned that just there's so much value in everybody and appreciate the good and relate to and talk to and you're not any better than anybody else. And just everybody's, you know, finding good. Everybody doesn't have good, a whole bunch of good, but everybody isn't totally bad, you know, so. And I just really appreciated that he lived in a, of a low income area and he'd sit down on the front porch and talk to all the people that pass by and why are you talking to those people? Why wouldn't I, you know, So I really appreciate that he opened my eyes to just being accepting of everybody and every kind of person.

[13:50] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: That's a valuable lesson.

[13:52] BONITA GOOCH: Yeah, it was. So, Bob, could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[14:00] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay. I am, I consider myself a moderate conservative. Being living, raised in Kansas, I'm sure that that's a large part of it. I did. At this point, I'm not sure that I don't really identify myself as a Republican or Democrat at all. I'm not happy with either party. I feel like our politics have gotten completely out of control. When I was growing up, I remember having the senators come to events and they were celebrities, people were glad to see them, they were there, they were there to help the people. Now I don't feel it's that way. I feel that people, our politicians are out for themselves and for whoever has the power at the time. I think it's gotten to be a big power grab in that there's forces behind the scenes that are guiding most of it. It's not let's do what's right for the people anymore, it's what does my party want me to do is what I'm seeing. So that is kind of where I'm at there. And that's why I feel like things like this, where we can get people together with different ideas, that's the way this country was established, was with people with different ideas. And if we can't get back to that, I don't think we're going to have a country much. Longer. So I'm not trying to be a gloom and doom kind of a person here by any means because I think there's a lot of good people in this country that care about it and feel the same way. But I think our leadership is where the problem had at this point. So I'll ask you the same one. Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[15:57] BONITA GOOCH: Well, as I said in my statement, I'm one of those liberal journalists but you know, but I think I'm like you. Things have just gotten too divisive and I 100% agree that people don't vote their values, they vote the party's values. And that's too sad. And even when they know it's wrong or I've watched people who not depict on the Republicans but who. That's the most terrible thing, you know, and then when the party comes along with it, oh, okay, that's okay then. But they'll vote for it. You know that, you know, over and over again things. That's not. But that's what the party says. So I vote for it. And we've got to. That's not how it used to be. We're both old enough to know that people worked across lines and they could find compromise. And there seems to be no compromise. It seems to be my way or the highway anymore. And that's just. And all what can we say about can we bring back any kind of compromise which is. But you know, my views are. I believe in helping the little people and that's important to me. I am very, I mean, I'm very committed to the environment and not because I'm going to be gone, but our kids got to live with this stuff and we've got to start doing something now or, you know, it's not about me, it's about my grandkids. And we've got to start seeing that and the next generation and the next generation and we've got to start doing something about those kind of things again. Yeah, you're right. We've got to figure out how to get along. We've got to stop talking about just pointing fingers at each other and just figure it out. And you're right. I think that's how most people feel. But then, okay, but then at that case, I can understand how they're supporting Ray. What's his name? Trump. I'm sorry, I just can't. I feel like a lot of other people, I don't know that if I could take four more years of all that, that Negative. I just don't think I can. That's my opinion. I can't take four years of that. And it just. But then, you know, I think other people feel just the same way. They don't think they could take four years or the other. And so that's just. So. Okay, that's where we are. So this is me, I guess. What is your earliest memory of politics? Or do you remember when you first became aware of politics?

[18:35] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Being aware, I guess, obviously in high school we had classes. As far as being interested, I've got to admit, I probably wasn't all that active or anything for a long time. I'm going to say probably within the last 20 years is when I became more concerned about it. I voted every year. I've always done that. But as far as being. I'm not going to call myself politically active even at this point, but I am more concerned and probably more aware of the politics and things going on than what I used to be. And partially because of the media and everything. Yeah, it's hard not to be aware of a lot of the big issues and everything, but I am definitely more committed to it than what I have been in the past. Just to try and get people from a grassroots area to wake up and start talking about stuff. Okay.

[19:51] BONITA GOOCH: I think. Oh, he doesn't have to ask me that question. Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay.

[19:59] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Yeah, I do have the same thing.

[20:01] BONITA GOOCH: Okay.

[20:01] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Do you remember when you first became aware of politics?

[20:04] BONITA GOOCH: Oh, yeah, I will say I can remember being aware of politics in for sure by elementary, late elementary school to middle school. And I kind of think. Sorry, I think that was kind of late because, you know, you have to understand the world. For African Americans. When I was coming up in the 60s, you know, the issues of civil rights were very important. And since those were decisions that were to be made by elected officials, many of them, to change the laws, it was something very important in our community. So we paid very close attention to what was going on in, you know, in the political reign. I mean, I remember just as well as I remember hearing when Kennedy died. I remember hearing where I was when I heard Martin Luther King had died and I was in middle school, art class. Well, it wasn't middle school then. What was it? It was junior high school, junior high, junior high school. So that was very important. So I have. I kind of didn't follow as much in my early 20s because I was away from Wichita for a while, but I did follow. But, you know, the good and the bad of following politics now is the availability of the media and Internet and all those kind of things, which makes it so much easier to follow, but it makes it so much easier to get bad information. It helps keep us so much more siloed and things of that sort. But, yeah, no, I probably. Again, I can remember Kennedy's death. I can remember very early on, you start hearing about Martin Luther King and our family and in our home and the civil rights movement and watching the police attacking people in the south. And, yeah, we watched it from very early on.

[22:09] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I can appreciate that. I can understand that, too. And I can remember after you said that, I can remember when Martin Luther King died. I remember the students that I went to school with that were African American were angry, very angry, and we had to work through some of that. It was unusual for us in liberal because it was such a small rural community. We never really. We were distanced from all the rioting and this sort of thing that was going on, but we still had the issues. And I remember when John F. Kennedy was shot, I remember I was in school and we were talking about walking home, you know, and this sort of thing. So, yeah, I guess there were some tidbits anyway there and there that I had become aware of, too. Okay. Can you talk about a time you felt excluded by a political party?

[23:15] BONITA GOOCH: Today, I definitely feel excluded by the Republican Party. I don't know what else to say. You know, I don't believe that all Republicans feel like they want to exclude me. But if you select a leader who seems like he wants to exclude me, that doesn't make me feel like you want to include me. And, you know, I definitely. I just don't feel that the party speaks to me. I don't think the party speaks well to just all those things. You know, I've kind of talked about earlier, you know, helping other people and seeing value in all people. And, you know, that if we raise up the least among us, it makes all of us better, you know, and I just feel a need to help. And again, this is in this. This isn't a black white issue. There's poor people of all economic race, all races, and they need to be. But it seems to me that the Republican Party wants to vote against its. You know, people in the party are voting against their own interests. There are a lot of poor people over there voting. Well, why are you. Why are you voting against your own interests? Why are you not voting for some of these programs? I mean, again, yeah, I would have loved to have had student loan forgiveness. Although when I went to College. College didn't cost as much. We managed to get through without a bunch of debt. But, you know, but sure, I would have loved to have had it. But, you know, just because, again, one of my religious beliefs, God's supply is unlimited. Just because I have some good doesn't mean you can't have some good. You know, your good does not negate my good. And I think that's the way I hear from the Republican Party. They seem to think if we help somebody else, it hurts us. No, it doesn't. And that's kind of what I feel. Okay, so if you want to respond to that one or what do you think of that?

[25:35] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I'm curious. I want to maybe follow up with you a little bit on that because. Because I can assure you that not all Republicans are believing in Trump or liking Trump. Okay. At this point, I'm wondering, you talked about the student loans and this sort of thing. What other things are the Democrats doing to help people that you don't see the Republicans doing or supporting?

[26:07] BONITA GOOCH: Let's talk about the child tracks credit. I mean, I know how much I struggled, I was a single mom, to pay for daycare. And it's hard. I mean, that's not just hard for poor people, that's hard for middle class people. You know, that daycare is expensive. What can we do to help mothers get out there and work and help up these kids? But if they can't afford to go out to work because they can't afford daycare, I mean, there's just so many things like that. And again, that's tough on all levels. You know, I'm not particularly, and I don't fond of the gun laws either. You know, I'd like to see some gun law changes. I just can't understand why Republicans are so tied to their guns and that guns are wonderful no matter what. And I don't think they're really as tied to the guns as they are tied to the NRA lobby. I really don't think. And that they cannot get behind the fact that we need to stop. We got to figure out something about these guns and stop killing kids. But, you know, their thing is, you know, the bad guys have guns, so the good guys need guns. But do the good guys need a K? Whatever's. I don't know. I don't even know the numbers. I can keep going, but I just think there's just, there's a lot of issues out there.

[27:29] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right.

[27:29] BONITA GOOCH: Okay.

[27:30] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Now I agree. The gun issues I don't understand at all because there Are things that can be done that are not going to interfere with gun ownership of lawful people. People that own them lawfully and handle them properly. I don't understand why our country needs assault rifles in private hands. It makes no sense to me at all. Those are for killing people. That's what they were made for. They're not sporting rifles at all. So.

[28:02] BONITA GOOCH: Or background checks.

[28:03] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right, Right. There's nothing wrong with background checks at all. But I think. I'm not sure that I'm agreeing fully that it's. It's all Republicans that are standing in the way. I think it's both sides of the aisle. I think because nothing has been done. Nothing at all has been done on that.

[28:25] BONITA GOOCH: You know, I think there are people that are very middle of the road. But I think one of the problems with our politics is our two party system. You have to go either or. And I'm really, if you want to ask me, I think we need to change a whole bunch of our governmental system and the way our government is structured because we what what worked out for back in Benjamin Franklin and all those did not know and could not anticipate. I think it was a very great document that they put together and a great structure. But it needs some fine tuning. And I think we need to find a way where we can let the middle have a say. Because I think there are some I haven't spoken to but some things that I could support, you know, on the Republican side but that I have to stick with the Democrats for. And then you're probably some things on the Republican side that you have to. But we can't. There's nothing to vote for. And the system is not structured so that there can be a strong middle. And we've got to figure out a way to come up with a strong middle. But everything that keeps happening is how do we structure it to make our parties, individual parties stronger. You know, a lot of these laws that were passed over the last four or five years are just really structured to how do we strengthen? I hate to say, because Republicans tend to. If you look at that map, what's red and blue map, how many of those states are really red versus blue? They have just dug in and just made a way that they will never turn over those states because they gerrymandered the districts. They made it so you. It's so hard to vote. You can't have petition initiatives. You can't have a say they're voting on what they want and not what the people want. And we've got to find a way to dig out of that hole. And it's going to. But I don't know how it's ever going to happen at this point because we need some constitutional amendments and the.

[30:32] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: People that have to bring those are the ones that are in power right now and don't want to mess up their power structure.

[30:37] BONITA GOOCH: Right? Yeah, exactly. When I can. I'm sorry to dominate, but here's one that really gets me is the structure of the US Senate. Why does Vermont, New Hampshire, maybe were your son had the same number of US Senators as California? What happened to one person, one vote? That is the most ridiculous structure. It's time. I don't think they thought that the states would get so imbalanced in populations when they structured that. And now it's time for a change. But getting that to change. Whoa, now in our lifetimes, I don't know. In any lifetime.

[31:17] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I agree with you. It's a major problem. And the fact that we've got the people that have to enact the change benefiting from the way things are now just tells you it's not going to happen unless we get somebody that. And it's going to take a lot of people. A lot of people to do it.

[31:37] BONITA GOOCH: Yeah, but change has happened slowly, but it has happened, so it has. Okay, you want to ask another question or where was it? I can ask one.

[31:46] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

[31:47] BONITA GOOCH: What was life like for you growing up and how was life different now?

[31:52] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Life was pretty simple for me, I think, because again, I lived in rural Kansas. We were insulated from a lot of the world, incidents that were going on, a lot of the conflict and everything. We didn't feel that when I was growing up. I think it was a lot simpler time than what we've got now. I feel really bad for some of the kids who are growing up because they've got to grow up so fast now and experience so many things that we never had to worry about, like with the drugs and everything else. It just is very difficult for me to see how they can handle things like that they're going through. The student suicide is horrific. The school shootings. I don't know how a kid goes to school anymore. You know, it's just crazy. There's a safety concern just walking out of the house where we used to be able to go across town and go play in the park or just ride my bike over there. You cannot even ride your bike in your own neighborhood anymore.

[33:18] BONITA GOOCH: So I guess my question would do, but do you feel safe in your daily Life.

[33:24] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Right now, I do. But again, my kids are grown and I'm still concerned for them because my daughter living in California is not the safest place by any means. My son in New Hampshire, he's pretty safe. It's pretty, pretty quiet out there for the most part. But, yeah, I think just the nature of the world has changed so dramatically from when we were. When I was a kid.

[34:01] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. I guess my question when in your life did your beliefs shift the most?

[34:08] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Or have they actually, they have, y'all. And I'm going to say it probably Maybe in my 50s, even that late, I used to be. Anybody would ask me, what's your political affiliation? It would always be Republican. I mean, I'm Republican, sure. I have no problem with that. Since probably the last 15, 20 years, to the point where, no, I'm an American. I mean, I am not necessarily Republican or Democrat because I don't agree with what they're doing. And so that has been probably a big change for me. And the scary thing is I see family members that are still very staunch Republican and they stand with, I mean, my mother, as caring and loving a person as she is, sits in her apartment now and watches Fox News all day long, which scares me to death. And we argue quite a lot. And it's like you're doing things that you never would have let me do when I was growing up. So that was a shift for me to start questioning things like that and moving away from it.

[35:37] BONITA GOOCH: So you say last, what, 10, 15 years?

[35:39] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Yeah.

[35:40] BONITA GOOCH: Was there anything in particular that was going on that made you make that shift or something?

[35:45] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: You saw probably politics was one of the big things. There was so much conflict, and it was getting more personally directed. I think at that time, it wasn't, well, my party is this or my party is that. It's if you're a Republican, you're this, and if you're a Democrat, you do this. And it was like, wait a minute, I know these people. That's not what they're doing. That's not what's going on out here on the street. And it kind of woke me up that things aren't as black and white as what they should have been or what I always thought they should have been. There's a lot more going on around the country than what the guidelines show. You've got to separate from it and move on to things that are pertinent to the. The general public and not just the political parties. Okay. Do you consider yourself to be someone who loves America?

[37:05] BONITA GOOCH: You know? Yeah. I look at other countries and I know as upset as I can get with America, I look, you know, I tell my friends and my daughter and everyone, you know, how blessed we really are to live in America. Things might not be what we want in America, but we are really lucky to be here. And I mean, overall. But, you know, there's some other good countries out there, too. Now, as. No, I won't say a bad word. One of those asshole countries, you know, that somebody wants to talk about. You know, there's a. I'm glad I'm not in one of those, but there's some other really good countries out there, too. Now, America isn't in the top, you know, we are. But there's some other ones that are doing some really great things, you know, like, why, if I can, I cannot go into some of these countries overseas, like Great Britain, and I'm not sure of all the rest or who to say where. Their insurance, their medical costs is so much less than ours, and they have full insurance coverage and they have family leave and a lot of stuff that America still doesn't have. So, you know, I think there's a lot of countries that have some good things going on. You know, I don't think we're as dominant as we used to be, but still very glad to be in America. Okay, good. So for me, from a country. So how diverse are your friends and your friend base and how much do you interact with people outside of your race?

[38:45] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay, outside of my race, I'm going to say very little. I live in a predominantly white community. Most of the people that are in my circles are white. And I have got several black friends. There was one that I worked with, with the county, that great, great man. I loved him. There are. I don't. And I don't feel that it's because I'm avoiding them. I feel like it's just the circle that I'm in there is not that diversity. And I don't know that I'm opposed to, you know, having other friends of other races that I don't think is an issue because I feel I'm open to that. It's just. I guess I'm not making the effort maybe to encourage that type of relationship with others. I need to broaden my circle probably more than what I have at this point.

[40:05] BONITA GOOCH: Do you think that would be beneficial?

[40:07] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Everybody you talk with has got a different life story. And to me, it's fascinating to sit and listen and learn from them. You've got so much of A different perspective than what I had growing up. Absolutely different. I try to consider myself to be an open person and open minded and I don't feel like I look at a person's race as a major factor in relating with them. At least I certainly hope I don't. And I don't disassociate with people because of race either. I mean, I'm open to talking with anybody, associating with anybody, socializing with anybody. So that's I guess kind of where I'm at there. It doesn't speak well of me because I am not that diverse in my friend base. But sometimes it can be difficult if you don't have a situation or a group that includes other races. I think it's hard to bring in races into a situation like that. And it's hard also to make relationships outside of that. I mean, I'm 69, I'm setting my ways, there's no question about that. But still I feel like working with other races and this sort of thing is fine. I enjoy it, I really do. Do you want to ask Bonita if she has any idea or tips that could maybe. Yeah, what can I do? Help me.

[42:11] BONITA GOOCH: Well, simple, make an effort. I mean, just get out there and do it. I mean, if it's not happening naturally, you know, you gotta make the effort. If it's. And we make the effort on things that are really important to us. So I would say prioritize it, you know. And so, you know, and I know you probably don't do a lot of different things, but churches, you know, church is probably white because churches are one of the most segregated groups organizations in the country. So you know, I don't know what else you do, but you know, and no one said it's going to be easy. And so it takes effort, just like losing weight, you know, it ain't easy, but it can be done. If anything you value and I would just say place more value on it, you know. And you probably interacted more when you were working, I'm sure. Yeah, that was the difference that kept you doing that. And I guess I'm still working but you know, maybe find something social. I don't know what you do social that you enjoy that where you could find a cross section of people. You know, my tennis community is very diverse, you know, so even once I stopped playing retire, I would have that. But I just think that I've made lasting friendships out of work that will carry on past. And you know, my dad was a big believer in keeping up with Friends, you know, he called almost every day. He called somebody that was a friend. And we go to a town, remember the joke was always when we went to town, when we were kids traveling, everywhere we went, dad knew somebody and he'd call them like, dad, why are you calling these people? You know, but you know, it's. He was a big believer and he. In keeping connections with your friends. And so maybe whoever that friend was, call him up and go to lunch. You know, that would be a way. But just. You have to work at it. Yeah, it's so much easier for us to be. We just finished doing something on this in our paper. This whole topic of inclusion that birds of a feathers flock together. I mean it's, it's comfortable, it's very comfortable. And hey, I just want to do the comfortable thing. It's easy and. But sometimes you have to work beyond, get beyond the comfort level and, and it isn't. It's tough, it's uncomfortable. It can be very uncomfortable. But the more you do it, the easier it becomes too. Just like that running track. You know, that one mile is pretty hard sometimes till you get used to it. So is it my turn? I don't know where we are. I don't know how I feel about any of these. Okay, so what are some of the most important lessons you've learned in life so far?

[45:15] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Oh, goodness.

[45:19] BONITA GOOCH: Let me take that one back. I don't like that one as much.

[45:21] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay.

[45:22] BONITA GOOCH: If you could talk to a younger version of yourself, what would you say?

[45:29] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Get out more, do more. Be more involved in community and politics, I suppose. Travel more, get out and see more of the world. I think would be good to broaden your horizons. It's easy living in Kansas. It's easy to be compartmentalized to where you've got. This is my little world right here and don't bother me with anything else. And I think I've gone through some of that. But yeah, I think that's probably it. Just be more outgoing and learn more and meet more people. Is there a major issue you've changed your mind on and why?

[46:28] BONITA GOOCH: Well, yeah, I don't know if it's a major issue. I really can't think of any major issue. But I did change my mind on something this weekend, this past weekend. So I'll share about it. And it is not that major. But you know, sometimes you got to realize that you made what you thought was wrong. So my daughter's father has. Has heart problems and he had a near couple near death experiences because he has A really bad heart and. But one, he was driving a car, driving his car and kind of passed what I could say, whatever happened with his heart. And he was on the side of the road and he was a former teacher. One of his students saw him and helped save him. He was just a block from the hospital and he. They got him to the hospital, saved his life. But then he kept having some other heart problems and he got to this point where he didn't want to drive anymore. He had a little incident, just got out of the hospital and was afraid to start driving again. And we were like, you've got to drive. How are you going to. He lives by himself and said, how are you going to get around? You've got to get behind the car. And we were really forcing him and getting very angry with him because he wouldn't drive. And what I realized is we have to accept and validate other people's fear. This was a legitimate fear for him. And it's not. It wasn't just get out and drive. You know, we really needed, you know, sometimes just because it wasn't a fear of ours, that other people's fears legitimate and we need to be accepting of that. And so what I've decided was maybe the better thing was to do instead of us just getting in the car, sitting down, giving him the keys and getting mad because he wouldn't drive, was to say, hey, why don't we try this block by block, you know, why don't we go down to the corner and, you know, and then. And see how that works. And then I'll ride along with you. Maybe we'll go back two blocks or something, you know, because just because it's not a fear of ours doesn't mean it's not a fear of someone else's. And that we really have to accept. And that happened about three or four years ago. And just from talking to my daughter this past weekend, I said, you know, I think we were wrong. You know, I think we shouldn't. It was legitimate fear. He, you know, he has what. She kind of said something about ptsd. You know, he really did have a fear. So I suggested to her strongly that that be something that she take in mind as she goes forward in dealing with anybody with any kind of fear that you understand that their fault, their fear was very legitimate. And, you know, and just don't, don't, don't denigrate it in any way.

[49:32] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay.

[49:34] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. Whose turn? These are some good. Okay, you asked me that question.

[49:41] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I'm going to throw One out. Okay, okay, I'm going to rip the band aid off here because this may blow up on me. Abortion. What is your stand on abortion?

[49:54] BONITA GOOCH: Now, that's one of those ones that I teeter, totter on. I really do, you know, I just, I just, you know, I don't have. Again, just like that, you know, I'm like, I'm sorry, you know, I don't know what happens after we die. You're entitled to believe what you want to believe. When you come back, when somebody comes back and tells me otherwise, your thought is just as good as mine. And so to this point, I don't know that I feel like I have a very true understanding of the. When life really begins. And what is legitimate about that? What is the real. I mean, I don't know because, I mean, I had a miscarriage once and, you know, was that, Was that a baby? Was that, you know, was that a. Was that a baby? I saw this little thing that came out. Was that a baby? You know, it looked like. Was that, you know, I don't know. And so since I don't know when life begins, that is where I struggle. But I'm a believer that we should not be killing babies. Okay, but when, when is that number? I don't know. And so at some point I would say, I said, oh, no, no abortions, no abortions. And now I'm willing to accept it, but I'm just not as clear on what or a defining moment because I don't have any strong evidence that. Or maybe my challenge would be I need to go study it myself. You know, make the effort, make the effort. But no, we shouldn't be aborting babies at nine months. I mean, you know, and not six months, because I had a brother, was born at six months and lived. So, you know, but where is my question. So your thoughts?

[51:42] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: I'm with you on that. My concern is the way it's being promoted as abortion is women's healthcare. There's a lot more to it than that. And if you look at the. I've looked at some of the statistics on this, and the abortions conducted or being sought after by women for medical reasons are less than 20% of all abortions. Most. The most common reason for getting an abortion is convenience. This is a bad time. I can't really have one right now. I can't afford one right now. These sort of things. And to me, those are not good reasons. They are. They're reasons that should have been talked about and considered before they had consensual sex, you know, it's like they don't want to be held accountable for that decision. And abortion seems to be trying. They're trying to use it more as birth control than as a true thing, I think. So that's kind of where I am.

[52:52] BONITA GOOCH: Okay. And I would agree with you. I think the large amount are convenience. And I have a nephew that. Let me not. I don't want that on the record. Let me stop. Let me stop that. I don't somebody. They'll be able to tie that back to people. Yeah. But on the other hand, you know, it isn't the best way, but it's out there and it's medically available, and I don't have a problem letting people do it. I mean, a lot of things we do that are, you know, discussion this weekend is, you know, every bit of medicine isn't always good. You know, it's out there. But is it always, you know, sometimes we use too much of it, you know, and prolong. Prolong life beyond whatever. You know, sometimes we need, I think, a lot of decisions about how do we. But it's an individual decision, and what it comes down to is an individual decision. And you would hope that individuals would be able to make their own decision. You know, some of. Some people want to go on and stay on and on and on and on. And some people make the decision, no, this is enough, but other people won't. And I just think most medical decisions should be able to be made by an individual within legitimacy of the law. That's my opinion. Since it's out there and it's available, they should be able to make it.

[54:25] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Yeah. Okay.

[54:27] BONITA GOOCH: How are we doing on time?

[54:29] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: If you want to ask each other one final question. Okay.

[54:39] BONITA GOOCH: I'll go.

[54:39] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: Okay.

[54:40] BONITA GOOCH: What are your hopes for the future?

[54:42] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: My hopes for the future are that we will become more concerned about the other person, start treating each other kinder and start talking to each other like we're doing right now. I think this is a great step and hopefully this is something that's going to grow because that's what we need to do. People need to start talking to each other and realizing that they've got a lot more in common than they have differences. If we can do that, then I think maybe we can get our country back. So. And what. What would you. What progress would you like? It would look. What do. Excuse me. What would progress look like to you?

[55:33] BONITA GOOCH: Something I haven't felt like I've talked enough about in this conversation. And I'd like to see more progress in race relations. And sadly, I think things like you said, they're starting to get worse, they're not getting better and we're going backwards. And boy, I wish we had talked about this more. But I'm really concerned with, particularly white Americans who seem to be a little concerned, seem to be scared, scared of what's going to happen, you know, scared that, you know, we're going to become the minority. Which white people are going to become the minority here? They say about 30 or something, 20, 30, 35, you know. And, you know, I think the theory is we don't we saw how bad we treated everybody else, they might treat us just as bad and we can't control things. And I think that's. But what you need to do versus I'm going to do everything to keep the power is just start talking about how we can do better at getting along. And so there shouldn't be an issue of power. But if, you know, but you're right, people might be. But you should have thought about that when you were mistreating people all these years. You know, that why people are upset. But I'm really hoping for the relationships, particularly race relationships, make a turn again for the better versus what's going on right now in America. I really do.

[57:13] ROBERT WIEDERSTEIN: That to me, is I'm not throwing anything off here by any means or eliminating any responsibility at all. But I think we've got problems on both sides. I think there's.