Bonita Hill and Justin Mann

00:02 Bonnie Hill and I'm 68 years old. I am here in South Minneapolis on January 13th, 2021. I am going to interview Justin Mann and I just met him today.

00:23 I did sit down and write some things which was oh I have to do the

00:35 I'm going to read for you. Justin Mann short, bio.

00:42 I am a native of Saint Paul in 1969. I attended TSU in Nashville. I joined the van Nation of Islam in 1971 in response to social injustice prevalent at the time. I raised six children or of which are college grads with two holding master's degrees established and international trade Corporation in 1981 selling flooring locally and traded Holstein cows to Korea and Taipei. I currently teach High School American World and African American history in the Saint Paul Public Schools. I love to serve

01:29 And now I'm going to share about 5 minutes worth of my story. I read it to my daughter this morning, and she noticed the missing parts, so she helped me.

01:42 My parents were Catherine link and John Hill my ancestors immigrated from Germany, Scotland and Ireland.

01:50 Mainland the 18000s. I have two living Brothers Peter and David and a brother who died in infancy Frederick who had Down syndrome.

02:00 Are my parents joined the Unitarian Universalist Faith after the death of their son and it brought them Comfort my mother live to be 93 and my father to 99.

02:13 My mother worked as a secretary. My father was an electrical engineer. They met after World War II and at that time.

02:25 My father

02:27 Took a job with a company called era and this company was instrumental in the creation of some of the first computers his company became univac religion a small house in North Saint Paul in the 1969 61 when I was 9 we moved to a small Rambler on a lake lot and it stays many kids played outside late into the evening. We had favorite neighbors a Chinese family and a German family and I realize in retrospect that my parents and their parents had a lot in common.

03:09 I have memories of the day when duct doctor King was shot and earlier when Mr. Hubble came to the playground and told us Kennedy was shot.

03:21 My mother taught me lots of things about being a homemaker, which I enjoyed and in ninth grade. I had my first science class and really like that.

03:31 And then in high school, I had a lucky thing. I had a Swedish exchange sister, and she and I decided we would become doctors and we did so that's a wonderful thing for me. My parents didn't did not go to 4-year college. So this is new for our family and I ended up going to Hamline University in Saint Paul and pause.

04:01 I can't talk right now. You'll have them. I need you to get in touch with me later for sure. Okay, no worries. Thank you. Talk to you later. So. Okay. Thank you.

04:21 Oh, yes, so I was a chemistry major I graduated and had a great time with fun summer jobs, but one strong memory is that I was a delegate to the Minnesota democratic convention in 1972, and I was inspired by Shirley Chisholm when she came to campus and spoke to us at Hamlin.

04:53 When should University of Minnesota medical school in Duluth The Faculty there were very good to me. However, there were no full-time female doctors in Duluth, and there was a lot of sexism and hazing and it was not an easy time there. It was much better after I came back to the Twin Cities and worked in the big city as hospitals after that.

05:18 During that time. I meant I will I met my husband in college, but I started dating and when I was in medical school, so we have been friends for almost five years before we were a couple

05:31 After medical school, I was a family practice resident Methodist Hospital in St. Louis Park. And then I was hired by the Saint Louis Park Clinic at their Plymouth office where I work for 15 years in my first-year practice. I had our daughter Laura and there was no such thing as maternity leave at that time. So it was something we created a few of us women in this large group of 150 doctors.

06:03 2 years later I had another daughter Sarah.

06:07 And then two years after that we built a larger home in Minnetonka where her son was born in 1990.

06:17 My husband made sure we all had fun. I was the one who always had to work hard. And so he made sure we always had fun and he started his own business as an executive career consultant, which he still does part-time after 15 years at Park Nicollet. I move to a 3/4 time position at Lakeview Clinic in Chaska. I had more time for family and personal Pursuits. Our kids went to college that we have a Hoosier a Hawkeye and a badger and they all have good shots right now for total grandchildren 2017. I retired and we move to a smaller home in Minneapolis and during that time. I've done a lot of volunteer work. I've been to nonprofit boards. I'm in a tap dance group that performs for nursing homes until covid-19.

07:15 And

07:18 Hobbies like art in and

07:21 I just getting out in nature taking walks. I really love I have been doing some part-time daycare again until covid-19.

08:11 Thank you.

08:15 Thank you for the story.

08:19 Quite a story to really dig into all the days that you've lived, you know, you gave such a like a little little brief telling but I know there's a lot of difference between those days right? My name is Justin Mann. I'm 69 years old. Today's date is January 13th 2021. I'm in St. Paul Minnesota. I'm interviewing Bonnie Hill and my relationship to Bonnie is we are connected through the storycorps. I'm going to be a little bit about Bonnie's a bio that I have. She was very brief with but she just gave us to just give me the real meat.

09:06 Bonnie raitt's I am a retired family doctor. So part of my job was listening to all kinds of people and learning from them. I'm also a grandmother and I want my grandchildren to grow up in a country devalues all people. My ancestors came to America 1800 looking for a better life. I want this to be possible for all immigrants to this country will Universalist believe in the inherent Dignity of all time.

09:35 Now, I don't know. I I of course listening to your introduction and in what the days of your life of mint and kind of Holly all came about we have very great deal of things in common closing age. My mother was a Minneapolis woman, but my father came from West Tennessee, they met New York after the war other six of us. I'm the oldest. I have four sisters and a brother of my sister. My my first friend my sister directly under me. She was born in 53. She passed away some years ago cancer and that was devastating. Of course that was harder than losing. My parents losing. My sister was just I always thought I understood that and I always understood.

10:36 And I and I think I took a nonchalant attitude about it when my my first friend my sister passed away. It just touched me so deeply that I had I felt emotions that I did I was unfamiliar with it was so consuming that that that grief that I'm experiencing any way. My grandmother's mother was an immigrant. My father's people were immigrants to they just didn't come on their own they came in the bottom of the ship, but my mother's my mother's family came from school and her mother was a true vegan and I'm so very old family and Sweden and I have our family history back into the 1400 which one of them left with my sister because I don't know nobody else had in the family, but for whatever reason free to decide to give it to to untia

11:32 So she came in the 18 to came at the turn of the century. Did she was a very brave woman, you know, she came when she was a young woman 17 18 years old and she served as an au pair in Wisconsin her early days. And then she moved to Saint Paul and in 1907. She did the unheard-of thing. She married a man of color in St. Paul 1907. I have one right here really interesting and I always wondered why would a Swedish woman? Marry a black man or what at that time would have been called a colored man something.

12:15 In that day when you would get lynched for such a thing and come to find out that the Swedish people were thought about about as highly as Irish people and the swedes have the neighborhood and Irish and everybody had a neighborhood and you know, you know people were not part of very highly and anyway, my grandmother met this man would come to Saint Paul in the turn of the century and from Oklahoma and I guess you are mean enough to get to the Swedish woman 10 years later. They had a little brown daughter and in Minneapolis 1917, but it was very difficult for my grandmother have a chap who was brown and all of her friends were of the white color, right?

13:09 So it is knowing that that was beginning of course, my mother's challenge, but she was she made it through and I'll make broken Downtown Minneapolis right on 6th Street and mother graduate from University of Minnesota Transit 88 dietitian and a housewife. My father was a policeman was a housewife until my baby sister went to grade school in the 50s Les. Your father was an electrical engineer and I'm sure it was top of them to you know, I'm staying home and in the we didn't know I never thought we were poor. I knew my dad worked all the time and then we we we live like that piano lessons want something for Christmas.

14:05 I know my dad worked all the time and then I'm in a very hard for him being a policeman St. Paul during the 50s and the 60s and then of course in the seventies when the police were really Under Fire And as you had a Down syndrome person in your family, I my youngest child has Down syndrome. I have four Sons. I'm in Tucson and four daughters and the doctor told me when Raj was going to be born. We knew he was going to be down syndrome and he says what he says you're going to have to give this child.

14:50 I said to the guy said I said whatever trouble I love I don't know what you're what what ride also was born. Where was a defect and he had a cleft palate very rare that you see Down syndrome and cleft palate in the same individual. And so he had these two and of course I didn't care about the Down Syndrome, but I did I was very disturbed by the by the cleft palate.

15:22 That's why I asked the doctor. I said not worried about this down syndrome. Because I don't know which one of my children is on or off. I think they could be anything at anytime. So if we have to love them all but what you going to do about this club palate because I know he can't function with that and then me and my limited mind could not see how they're going to bring his face from over here over here and bring it in close this Gap. So that was a journey and that was a journey. He's with me to this day 30 years old. Of course this past June and dumb he is my constant and he has taught me so much about being human and being a parent then how to love and you know my old my son who's the he would be the third child my oldest son.

16:14 You saw me giving rice pudding rice bed one night. I was giving me do we have this routine everything about each other and just love each other for a few minutes and then it kind of rice takes a deep breath and calm down to go to sleep and big my big fat summer.

16:38 You know interesting and 72 when you were being political at that time. I was in college in 69, but I came became disenchanted and you know, I got turned on to some alternate ideas and we were studying outside of the campus. And so, you know, my life started taking a turn I was not on I was not on target the target that I had set for myself by sit by the time I 271 came. I think I lost focus in 1970. I was going to swim team. I left here at partying right in there. I left here.

17:27 A fairly well-developed swimmer of color coded anything else so I had to be good at something on my other friend so I could play basketball. I didn't like football. So I took the swimming in tracking but the swimming became my thing. My dad said if you want to go to college, you said you better either get good grades or earn scholarship. So I got their grades and I earned a scholarship by I didn't get the scholarship until I got there because they didn't know who I was and my mother because I was a big guy and I ate a lot my father made me have the shop and I got I made pretty good money. And as a result of that I had to pay room and board was not very happy about I just feel it was just that I should have to pay it.

18:27 But I was making more money than my dad at the time be just cutting grass for housing authority to work at 3. So I have back my mother wouldn't let me have my money. So she said you're going to need this money. I'll get you a little bit but the rest away so we did that for three years by the time I got to college I had about $10,000 in the bank. I paid for my first mess my first quarter room and board came out of my pocket. I went down there right up from swim team coach asked me. What can I do for you? I said, I need money you gave me a full ride, but I lost Focus the second year and that's an internet and so I needed to recover and that's how I

19:12 I grew up I grew up in the Episcopal church, but I recover because I had a relationship with God. I had this, you know, we had to go to church every Sunday. So and then my dad being a certain public servants she made me shovel the sidewalk for 5:30. I had to cut the grass at the church. I had I have jobs to do with the church. And so I was always the church thing was very deep and the service, you know, I didn't want to do it. You didn't care what I did want to do. You did it. He knew it. So when I was in trouble, I knew I could turn to God for help, but I wasn't I wasn't

19:51 I was in that questioning face with life. So I questioned the documents that we were being.

19:59 Make me fat if you will and anyway, I my life kind of change and I went in this direction. I heard I heard this long message. I heard Park on and I said in the Celtic let me see what it is. And so I went to a meeting and then I met my wife but she wasn't my wife in the tracks of my girlfriend and she saw me go to look at my to another meeting in may ask yourself who needs what you here to be true good for black people black people. Why do you think I didn't raise my hand because you don't give up your bad habits. I said, that's the only reason why I'm I'm going to get with those brothers because they discipline it clean and bowties and looking looking sharp and strong and and and and that was a contrast to what was on campus Because the guys on cancer.

20:59 And they were dancing and jumping and then they look like to me they look silly with the brothers with the saw your brother's look sharper to me and it was a lot of trouble. So perhaps you ask me something and we can have some good conversation, but we have me up the universe about that. You know, I know I'm a 1971, but I've been going to the Saint Paul Universalist Church since 19.

21:51 For 10 years now.

21:53 Not on the regular, but I'm close enough with Ron our Isaacson in and Jan to be able to call him by first name and and we sit down and and Rob and I have the most robust conversation. And then we also have a group is Lord of the priests at your church.

22:11 Dora had no. No, I think that might be downtown Minneapolis or church. We've been doing it for 10 years and I almost 11 years and it's called the circle of peace.

22:30 Escala circle of Peace movement and so are our mission is to end violence and youth violence create racial Harmony end in violence with Community conversation. We have it every Monday. Usually we used to have dinner and then have the conversation always last between five and seven. But now we just have a zoom meeting and it's a very very nice little foreign people your people coming in at the office just so much community and we share stories and we we identify commonalities interest. And right now we're reading have a mess have a passage from Melvin Carter jr. Book. Melvin Carter jr. Temporary a Wii reading from his book diesel heart and insolent question will arrive his experience as a child. And how do how do I experience? Is that your children? How do they compare and how are they not similar and in the end we find that we have more we have more similar.

23:30 Differences and just have a great real nice little menagerie of people young old white black different sexual Persuasions, and he's just young people. We really try to encourage young people policeman you would we invite the mayor has been there. The chief of police has been there last Lieutenant of regular police has come regularly. We had trouble to get the minutes.

24:05 That's how you know my blurb I guess is they get it started then got something to talk about Bonnie. That's why I'm so glad that you're welcome at first you at Unity. I mean that's that's actually the church that my parents went to in my cuz my dad loved the organ they got the panda and that's where we had his funeral with the organ just loud as can be and and the people were good to us. And that is also the church where George and I were married in 1981 and that was Roy Phillips, and I didn't realize I looked him up recently. He died of a heart attack in Morocco, which was kind of strange. But yeah, I think one thing that spoke to me from what you shared is.

25:04 How those people that came back from the war and the people that you know started without very much like my parents clearly did not have when my dad's family came to this country they came cuz they had nothing when he was about 12 or 13 and he had been home-schooled out in the in Canada with because his dad couldn't find a decent job anywhere. They went from town to town and he never went to school till he was 12 or 13 and yet he had this amazing mathematical mind. So his stories is quite something to but anyway, so as a result there was he was going to make sure that his children knew how to work hard.

25:48 And there was a bridge schedule and on Saturday morning. We had a list of chores and you didn't do anything else do your chores were done and I kind of sensed some of that same upbringing and it turns us into very hard-working people and but at times there was a sense of I think my parents weren't is able to show affection cuz I don't I think in their strong dramatic and you know that their upbringing there wasn't a whole lot of show of affection then I've been doing a lot of genealogy and and looking back at the families and how many had eight or 10 or 11 children and and you know, they were heating with a wood stove and you're trying to imagine this life and no wonder they were it's like watching that movie the immigrants about the swedes when they came really really

26:46 If you understand where these people came from, then you're not so judgemental that maybe they didn't show you the right amount of Love or say I love you, but they give us these other tools for life. I would venture to say that I can be told over and over again. Same thing Saturday morning you had needs to do and nothing else happened to tea and dad woke us up on Saturday morning with Tchaikovsky playing very low you play the War of 1812 of drum the bingo

27:30 Call me in the morning and very much a disciplinarian World War II and the same thing with our parents not I used to say night to tell my wife the other day because I felt like you know, if she and her how I used to feel when I would try to get my mom a kiss and see if you know, you know, but I want I want to have some affection with her so she can like the stuff I do for my boy, you know, or any of my other children and maybe those thing we didn't get as a as children's what we can sure that we get.

28:30 I like what you said body with do you want to make sure that your children grow up in a world? So you're my relationship with all of my children and I always said if I want to have when I was a boy, I was like I want to have six children of my own and I'm not going to be

28:50 As long as it's not with you. And I just I felt like my parents taught me how to be a better parent and and I didn't make me a parent.

29:03 I'm the best friend I could be and as time went by and now you know here I am 46 years as a parent and 47 years as a parent and my child is 30 hot meal or I'll I got somebody else the other day.

29:25 I'm an educator of these days and they said how does your question was? How does your masculinity affect your teaching?

29:39 In my response was my parenting affects my teaching more than my masculinity that don't even make sure I mean, I'm sure I'm masculine but what I am more is apparent in it. So what I bring to the classroom is my patience is my is my manner, you know his grandpa mom Bonnie, you know when you were a model that's one thing but when you are a grandmother, that's a whole nother that's a whole nother and grandma don't respond or wait mama does and throat and a child feel comfortable with Grandma because you know, Grandma's going to be patient with her grandma going to listen to her or him, you know showing that that whole nother level of awareness and kindness. That's what I bring to the classroom that makes me successful as an educator Urban children, you know, they get they get a kind of fatherly grandfather. Not even father is more grandfather Lilo.

30:39 Then in a lucky and then I use humor so, you know where my colleagues are little bit more straitlaced cuz I've lived a couple more days. I can laugh a few things often take things a little later and an ant as a result of those who are in my kin. Can I relaxed and comfortable enough to be themselves and not going to be accepted? I'm going to help and I just I feel so fortunate and laughing all of my days are prepared me for this that I do right now everything that I never planned on doing this. This was never my idea until like I got 60 when I turn sixty that's when I decided I was going to do this and it has been so rewarding

31:28 I just can't tell you.

31:30 I think I think you're a happy person and that is huge and there's two things. I thought you were reminded of reminded me of one thing is when my mother was young. She was paid $5 a week to work at neighborhood house and you maybe know about that over in St. Paul and yeah are sending that works there now and all she was that Nick and in West Saint Paul. It was mostly Hispanic and Jewish neighbors they had so how do they got in there as a German family? I don't know but but my mom had a Hispanic boyfriend.

32:16 And her German mothers said no. This will not ever happen in our family and my mother had to break up.

32:26 I mean she was pressured into it and I don't know what her options were it was hard either way. So I'm but we have a picture of her with her her boyfriend from the neighborhood house at that time. And and I I think how her life would be different and I wouldn't be here or you would have been here. You just would have had a different day.

32:49 Yeah, it's so our daughter our daughter teaches in Spanish. So that is really been delightful to see her and my dad spoke Spanish from his time in the war. So it's really been a pleasure. I've was never very good at foreign language so fun to see things that your children can live out for you that that weren't your strengths as part of our family was not really accepting of of my Grandma had a couple big family and your brother's here and ruin John and I think they were older and I think there is quite a history in this Truman family in the early, you know, I mean way back and Grandma never worked and she always had money.

33:48 And never broken and we always went downtown every weekend anyway.

33:59 Day when I went to Sweden, they were not welcomed me. And when I asked them to read an old Swedish what breed of had given me no one would do it. So I ended up my colleague I sent in my family got mad at me because I sent them a copy. They did not have this document so read it was privileged to the document. You was my my grandma's niece and nephew would probably give to my sister. I shared it with one of the cousins and sweep and I asked her to tell me what it said. She would tell me so I had a friend who was a teacher caught with us last year. She was in my co-teacher her husband was real sweet and he could read the old Swedish. He read it and gave me the history and maybe that's why they didn't want me to know because it's quite a family and I guess you know

34:50 They weren't all that happy with Grandma Grandma Hilma because she married this 10 man and the but you know, that's the way it went. There was no one to stop her her father. Of course, it was long gone John and Andrew didn't stop her. But when we went to their funerals when when our family went went to the funeral for John it all the other people there. They're looking at us like who are these people? You know, we run the rainbow in color. So I'm I'm on the Lighter Side booty-o's darker. Everybody's got different colors. That's always tell my students people are not color their places and we have to stop thinking of each other as color in my opinion that as we stopped at recognize it a white woman told her I said she was right. She was teacher English teacher New York. She said I said so so so so many such and such a

35:50 I said she's a white woman this man and she looked at me and she said I'm not white. She said I'm from Ecuador Ecuadorian and right then I knew I said see people to places and if I said do an African I buy so you have a black African I said, I know I'm not easy open people are from a lion associate with like I have German Pinscher German Scottish and Irish people write but we do judge each other based on it, but the best historical systemic stuff that you know just used a teacher through so we won't get started on really I really like learning from my patients who

36:43 We're from other cultures or other races or the Ethiopia reminded me of a patient that I had that I saw for quite some time and he had this I think I can share this. It's non specific information he had

37:02 So much pain in his hands and his wrist and there wasn't an obvious cause and and it didn't respond to treatment and he met with a hand specialist and and and then after he'd seen me a few times she said, you know, I was I was held as a prisoner in Ethiopia and they hung me from the wall by my wrists.

37:35 I mean just those are that.

37:39 This is what we don't understand about what what's happening around the world that sell real people. It's not just what you see on television. And so yeah, and he was able to leave eventually and I think his wife left first perhaps but was able to come here. I've been volunteering did I say I've been going on tearing as an observer and Immigration Court

38:13 That was a connection through the church and they were looking for volunteers. I thought well, I have good observational skills. And what they're doing is there are using volunteers to record using a form all the things that happened in Immigration Court with each individual in terms of their rights. And were they represented by an attorney and where they handcuffed were they wearing orange? What how are they treated? How many times had it's a it's a revolving door there they go in and in over and over and over again and each time the judge will say it. Do you have this paperwork filled out or did you find an attorney and they say no and the judge says I'll give you two more weeks and it's just a sad scenario almost everyone walks with their head low like that. It's just such the body language is so

39:09 Strong and so a few things it's the Binger Center at the University of Minnesota and they've given some feedback to the to the Head judge into some of the people there in a few small things have improved as read result of that. So

39:26 But I don't know if I'll go back to that one Co-op. It's over or not. It's it's kind of hard on me. But you know, it's so important if it's what you have done is created change and more awareness and Consciousness, you know this necessary. What else does that say to me? It says that kind of like when you're in the midst of a thing, okay, so would we expect the judge to be able to do that themselves or the pic the what would I say the map of the

40:04 The people who manage the courtroom would they couldn't they develop that themselves but apparently not it's kind of like when you're in the midst of the thing you may not see all of this is that are at work or if you don't have the mind that you have the trained mind that you have to look for nuances.

40:23 You need someone you need someone there to help say okay, you might have missed this. We didn't what do you think? I might just be impacting and do we need those other sets of eyes and hands on deck to help us in to help all professionals be to be better at what they do and serve people more effectively. So I applaud you for that. That's what I mean. What a wonderful man. Do you find Bonnie that the light I mean you days have been what they are. They just come you got all the different things that you do and you're seems like your energy is almost boundless in your interests are very are just you have a wide spectrum of infants, you know and activities and I'm sure that that's just me just makes life. So

41:15 Gratifying for you. I mean, even if you experience the hardship of reality of immigrant life, I mean

41:25 You know, if you find a way that you can serve and help make it better. That's the only thing to me that keeps us sane.

41:33 I think that's all.

41:36 Thank you. Thank you. You are wondering how you are and I think that people our age and I wonder if it's because we were a generation that was involved in that. It was such a tumultuous time when we were teenagers, you know, when we're young adults. Do you know from 1968 till 1972 there was you know, those of us who came of age during those years lot of things were hitting us upside the head we I didn't I knew about Malcolm, but I had never heard any of his work until I was in college and when I began to hear that stuff brought me a whole new level of awareness just the struggles in the in and out.

42:27 But you know, you know, we were kind of insulated in Minnesota, but you went to that you went to that that some convention in 72 that was a raucous Place nut nut, Chicago, Minnesota, Minnesota dangerous stuff like that, but my parents always said no cuz I was reading a B Hoffman at the time and you know, and and there was another one that was pretty wild. I can't call his name right now, but they were really influencing Us in and of course, you know, I I was a Jimi Hendrix fan and and you know, I grew up in Minnesota. So I went to school to Tennessee State. That's a black school. That's what that was a historic black institution and

43:22 Right, you know that was completely different from a fellow like me from Saint Paul Minnesota, you know, I'm going to school with a small the Country Inn.

43:32 But you still had navigate which group of people in college represented you and and gave you a circle that was comfortable to live with you know, that was tough to because I think I gravitated to the older boys and swim coach told me that might have been pretty says you sent them boys going to get you in trouble to stay away from the Detroit boys. And I was I ran headlong into him and they brought me, Tori. I just couldn't take it in there. I just could not take that don't card and not after the first quarter that we have in common. Have you ever got a lot of stuff in common is so my senior year at Hamlin. I had enough time that I joined the swim team.

44:31 I had taken like water safety instruction and I could you know do life-saving but I barely knew how to swim laps and the coach. I forget his name. Was it like Marty Marty Marty. I never won a single race, but I got to swim at all these fools and I got the most improved award and the end of the year. So wonderful. That is that's that's why I had him swim at this kind of

45:22 United made my children do what was what I did miss how we could spend time together. I put them on the water in in Roswell. Just no different from the other ones. So how old is what number child was the Down Syndrome member your family?

45:42 Number to 4204 e I'm 3 so he was get this he was born 11 months before I was born. Okay. Okay is my mom always said the nurses came and said, oh you have a boy and now you have a girl and she said they never knew that she was just glad she didn't have another Down Syndrome baby didn't care if I was a girl or a boy baby. I think my dad was probably part of of why she didn't but I I don't really know.

46:23 All should be to keep did she did she deliver the child. She said yes, and then this baby was cared for at in a private home and those days there were private home care for the elderly and disabled and what we went through that as less my wife and we had we had at this is my second wife. So my first wife and I this is a second family if you will and so are other daughter was born ten years before this one's ours are 80 and 90 and and didn't really want to have the first child in and you know, I don't know if you can convince a woman to do anything. You don't want to do it. She's not going to do it. So, but maybe I had some influence aren't you did have the child. So then we get ready to have this child going to be down syndrome. She says to me we're going to have a child with Down Syndrome.

47:23 I see what you mean to me, you know we have but we we definitely have big conversation and I said I told her I don't care for chocolate Ripple crazy. We have no job and so like I said, what what was the disturbing part for me with him? Was that cleft palate because I've never experienced it, but I can completely tell you that. Yes, it is a lifetime commitment. But I tell you what, do you know I feel so lucky to have this young man in my life. And you know, I'm in his life to no doubt about it, but you know, we enjoy I enjoy

48:22 Help being there for him. I enjoyed loving him endlessly. And you know, I know he teaches me so much about helping me with my patients. I'll help you with my man or my he's also so I have to be at to be very clear about sweet. I have to listen very carefully so that I can understand what he's saying. I'd be very patient with him to get him understand what I'm saying was just this is constant. This is constant practice of humanity of listening and and sharing and understanding and patience and time and I tell you I just I think

49:05 This

49:07 You know, I don't know what happened many years I have left and I will continue to look just like this in the until it till the ball drops. And I know I'll be alright because this giant I do work worried about what happened would have what would happen if something happened to me?

49:27 Yeah, and I know he does have a boss him around and visibility is making sense of things. If you want to be treated with respect, you know, and I'll tell you why you love his mom and I know he does but he when he goes to see his mom in the muck with her and he has just been really really good and then you're too. Oh my goodness. What you doing?

50:20 Nothing cover though. So we're all done. I think just a wonderful conversation. She's giving the signal has been nice to meet you. I'm you know, we could you never know we might see each other sometime. This is a you might come to the circle of Peace. We might see each other and say part about that. I'll be in Minneapolis. I live in Brooklyn Park, but you can see almost all you used love to talk as a wonderful group. I I really appreciate the idea that the idea and the philosophy of the universe Unitarian Church and it's definitely not in conflict with Islam whatsoever. So from my perspective, but then I grew up in a Christian church. So, you know, I think I find more I try to find places where we can be cohesive is opposed to blow was so different and celebrate the difference. I'm going to celebrate it. I'm going to celebrate the similarities myself. So

51:19 Excellent