Bonnie Wahiba and Trish Davis

00:02 84 years old today's date is October 8th this year 2020. I live in Florida and Bonnie. You're my partner in this conversation and I just met you today.

00:19 Okay. My name is Bonnie wahiba.

00:23 I'm a little bit older than you Trish. I'm 67. Did it but very young 67 almost 64 October. I am in St. Johns, Florida, and I didn't catch where you were tripping Hardware in Florida, Jacksonville, Florida, and her name is Trish, and I'm just meeting you today.

00:52 Why did you want to do the interview today or today?

00:59 I think I'm I wanted to prove to myself that people are more alike than their dissembler.

01:08 Yes, yes.

01:10 I had sort of similar reasons for doing it in that I have listened to on NPR story. I just called core but I guess it's corpse course and I really enjoyed the stories really as soon as I make me cry and so I when I heard about it and funny because my first time hurt about it, I looked it up and look it up on the website couldn't find it in and then I heard it again just I don't spend that much time in the car. So I was well I meant to do this so I was thrilled to finally find it and never sign up for it.

01:53 Buses on Trish's bio

01:59 I'm sorry. I read it a little bit on the product of a Catholic army officer father from Buffalo New York to met my Episcopal Mudder in eastern England just after World War II just as intense you going to be amazed at how much we have in common already Trish. I was born in Massachusetts but moved a lot till High School when my father retired from army and we move to Florida race in the military by non racist parents blind to color until we move to the South shocked by attitudes both whites and blacks. I married my Baptist husband 4 + years ago financially conservative, but less conservative on social issues.

02:50 Here's your's I'm a fairly new resident of Florida paragraph up genetically wired with an insatiable curiosity about things in the world very different from my own experience. I am married to a first-generation. I'm going to mess up their ban. Okay, who is Moslem? Although I am not I have one child a biracial daughter who we adopted riding the line between black and white and Muslim and non-muslim allows me to view the world from very different perspectives. I am very supportive of the black lives matter movement and the 90% who are protesting peacefully, but loudly I'm a fairly new resident of Florida, but had traveled all over the state going up and most of my family is now submerged here while I appreciate the beauty of the state. I am not afford a girl as my life before moving here.

03:48 Has been an Aries with very distinct changes of seasons and very short periods of extreme heat and humidity as well as much more liberal. I did I did I am self retired working part-time as a substitute teacher. I miss my students.

04:07 Yes, we do have a lot of things in common you want and you want to know how many I just have to go back cuz you're going to be amazed. Okay, my mother was born in Connecticut. I was born in Connecticut. We move to Massachusetts my far but father retired as a an army colonel, although he was in the resource not the active-duty. My father's Episcopal. We did I said that we moved to Massachusetts then we move down to the DC area. My dad got a government job in DC and my father is really the the person who influenced me most about race in the difference between races than being color-blind and stuff like that. Although I don't think any of us really are in including me.

05:04 And I married my Libyan husband. It's going to be 34 years in March. I can't believe it who is almost the same. He's he's financially fairly conservative but much less conservative on social issues that right. Yes. It does sound very much like that. I should have written down the question I had was when you were speaking just now, I guess you're the biggest different is as you mentioned the fact that he is a Muslim. So we're probably I'm walking more than anything else in experiences. I have traveled a lot of inside the United States and outside. And as far as the Northeast though only live there a short time because my sister was

06:04 Years after me in Massachusetts as well and then Dad went to Korea and mother went to eat back home to England because she could not go with him. And and then when he returned after a year, we headed to Texas and Oklahoma and where they are a few years and then we went to Germany and then back to Oklahoma and then he retired remember one of those things in common also not really obvious, but he was actually reserved as well. But we're his whole 22 years ago. He's actually had a farm on your retirement. I mean, he was retired from the military, but he was active but I was wondering I was so surprised at some of his poxy hadn't mentioned reserves. How can you be reserved you been in the army?

07:04 Call me that your sister was born in Natick. I'm really going to be.

07:09 Both on at Fort Devens, Massachusetts. Okay, I mention there and you mentioned about being blind mother was very not brought up probably with many black people around in England London Northeast England what she did have a large influx of the Us and other polish and whatnot Soldier come there because a lot of air base and in later years wide and Dad's awesome dance commander of some sort. She had other people who other ladies that I guess I don't know how it's really done. But you did a lot of copies and cheese and stuff like that.

08:09 The bridge not the one of the things she reflects on how she raised if I guess one that they were missing a horse and Bridge and she asks young lady another wife who was a black woman and the woman was very hesitant revealed. I was up to probably age 12 or so 12:13.

08:51 Our next door neighbors were black couple who adopted Twins and I babysat for them Jacksonville. It was another story. When high school for me. So you moved to Jacksonville in while you were in high school. We were in Jacksonville. South Jackson West Jacksonville went for my 8th grade. Okay, and then for ninth grade at the house bought a house in Orange Park, Florida to Orange Park High School and Junior High and high school. Will that change the middle school and high school 9th grade. Put in with the high schoolers and I was in ninth grade class that was in that new building that they brought the 9th grade is over.

09:51 What's on usual at the time? Right? It was usually 7th 8th 9th in in and then time went 1112 older kids. Yes. Yes, I was playing and I just I don't have to wear a lot of memories, but I just you know, it just I remember it being difficult and have to stay probably what notice and most maybe in some aspects is that black people seem to have an attitude and I did not do it. It was an eye-opener cuz I think I was up to that point blind to race them because I had an experience or seen it and my parents just seem to be very young never talked about it. Never never seem to be an issue or thing. I noticed something noticed so

10:46 I think there's I think there are a few things going on that you talked about that really really really make a difference in how anybody views the world and one and one of them is traveling and I've traveled a lot. Also, I've been to Olivia probably four or five times with my relatives there and we lived in the Philippines for 2 years when I was growing up and then we traveled on the way back from the feeling Philippines back to the United States and stopped in about 10 or 12 countries Quick Stop's put enough for me to kind of really see what things were about a little bit but I think like I said before my curiosity was tweet by how my father was who was always interested in other cultures in other people in other races and all that Thursday in Sachse work for the government and he was working for the United States information agency.

11:46 Which the way we explained it when people asked is that he was a writer and he wrote propaganda for the United States, but we didn't mean that in kind of a bad way. You know, he he wrote for the beautiful magazines that the u.s. Used to put out and maybe still does and send to other countries talking about life in the United States. So he just was I don't know why but I think the other influence was even though he wasn't active duty. He was only active Duty 2 weeks in the summer time.

12:23 He

12:25 He was he had a really open Viewpoint and I think later on when blacks in other cultures were mixed in with white soldiers. You were kind of forced to confront whatever feelings or anything like that that you had about other races because they were in your face and you were in their ears. And so I think that people who have been in the military you really see a difference in attitudes so I can two things. It's like traveling and open your eyes that way and then if you're in the military or in a military family or anything like that

13:03 It's just a different Ambiance about how you treat other people, you know, and I think it goes back to people are more the same than they are different. I mean when I went over to Libya, there are so many things that are really different very very different one is the language of course Arabic which is probably the hardest language to learn in the world. And I know because I tried many times the it is North Africa. So the

13:35 The colors that people are very very wide range is his people who don't quite look white but are very very light skinned all the way up to people like my husband who is what you would think of it that are typical African were probably Americans think of it the Chippewa typical African maybe that was a little surprising on going to Africa and everybody's going to be black the way we think of it here. And in fact, they were completely mixed, you know, so it it just all of those things were reopening and then when I when I did get into my husband's culture, especially the religious culture that really open my eyes up and I found that I had many of the same prejudices

14:25 That I didn't think I had when I started learning specifically more about Islam.

14:33 An interview of any questions about Islam. I mean, I think that the reason again, this is my whole thing about life is if you don't know about something that's when you can be prejudiced or you know, or have a certain thought about it and and it's only when you kind of learn more about it that you realized.

14:55 Wow, it's they're not that different. You know, it's it really quite amazing. I'm blabbing you jump in Trish.

15:06 That is the questions we have on our list was about our political values and and I had been registered Republican for years and probably many different reasons the Fantastic conservative and socially, you know more conservative than liberal but this year I actually switched and register as a Democrat because I felt like I wanted to have some say in and who might end up being nominated from that party it is my view is pretty much in hard R R. I really don't like this a Christian but they didn't I am Christian my I had I do believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't think I don't tie my Christianity with the USA. And that's one of my problems. I have a lot of my fellow Christians is they seem to have a

16:06 Not wrapped up together very tightly and I disagree with that part of it. But in some of my views that I have, you know about financially conservative, but also being socially responsible and try to be generous with what I have to help people, but I did a lot of a lot of feeling that you know that everybody for themselves and they shouldn't be taken so

16:46 It's some of my views are as far as the washing goes. I'm against it, but I have read and seen so much about women getting in 2006 where that seems like the only solution that I'm not for legalizing being against it as it had been before and as I want to be created, but I think somebody who does that have to do with what happened before someone else does not believe it's really going to be up to them before it is it is to be answered for so that's where my social so to get the little bit more moderate than that. I don't think some of these things should be getting the wall. I am not for the death penalty is something that's Republican.

17:46 View point in I don't want to take somebody's pants of accepting Christ. And if you do that, so is that he wants so that's where I get much more moderate some of the things you hear about schools, you know the kids to her College. Well, I don't think some kids are really Geared for college. I think it should be paid for I think people should really like to be helped but not messy just giving it to them, but that's some of me talking now. So your turn. All I have to say is you sure sound like a Democrat to me. I don't know. I mean, I have some very similar feelings, you know, I am not for the death penalty penalty and mine is kind of twofold. It's not really

18:46 Religious reasons are backed by that. It's more that both a couple things because we've been finding out that many of the people that are on death penalty. In fact, I've had terrible trials and because therefore they had really bad legal advice and stuff like that. So I think it would be worse to kill somebody who is

19:07 Not guilty, then it would be to kill somebody. Who am I saying that right? You know what I mean? And the and the other thing is that has wondered about people who logistically think about the death penalty because or or think about it about insurance of Retribution, and I don't want to say anything about the people who have had crimes committed against them. We're young people killed certainly did kill people but I always think that when the person like suffer a lot more if they had to stay

19:41 In jail for a long time rather than you know

19:46 Being put out of this Earth. I just need to know if you're really angry at the person you want them to suffer more. It seems to me that letting them die is kind of

19:58 Yes, yes. Yes exactly. I want I almost had an easy way out and that's a terrible thing to say. I don't mean it but you said it right? Yeah way out.

20:10 So yeah, I agree with you on that and and I am absolutely pro-choice I have for the same reasons that you're saying that I don't see how anybody especially men especially men can tell a woman what to do with her body. I just don't see how that can happen and come out good. Well, you know, I mean I guess.

20:36 I don't know. I can't imagine them wanting us to say and you know to tell them when they get a vasectomy and all that sort of stuff, you know, I didn't just

20:45 It anyway, so yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

20:51 And then some of the other things that you said also, I mean, it's really amazing. I mean some of the things I really am absolutely an inline with you, you know, and I Center myself kind of on the liberal side of a dino with the Democratic Party.

21:11 But some parts of me, I think are our little bit more conservative definitely definitely.

21:18 So, okay. Here's my question for you Trish. This is one that or moderator came up with tell me about a moment when your political ideas were really shaped or when they shifted.

21:35 Yeah, I saw that. My memory is not good enough to remember moment. I think it's just Evolution over time and I guess being involved with different things. I mean being a Baptist as I am married to a Baptist and you do if you get limit yourself just to that group of that denomination, you limit yourself to never get hers and I think some of the things I've done in the past. There's there such things as Community Bible study and there's another one. I came by the other name of it where other than nominations joined together. And and that's where you stir to learn more about other people's viewpoint on things and I love how people arguing is talking. I like to hear what people thinking in our travels we get to meet people from other countries.

22:35 And we I love to talk and then I really don't want to try to persuade. I just want to hear that has made me sort of and I don't know if it's a shift so much as maybe it's just that always the way I was the two parties have become more polarized in recent years. I think a lot of it's got to do with the way they draw the lines now and the way that you know, when they come up with where the Senate represent the House of Representatives in Congress and they become so right or left extreme but compromising impossible one of our men you may be aware of his this year. I think it's going to be on our ballot for November is to let us cross over during the day.

23:35 So we may end up with two Democrats to choose from in the final, you know in the final election, which would be fine or two then we'll be listening to both sides and and come up with a compromise situation. I'm hoping that would be a remedy to prevent people. So in the past so polarized I agree with you about the depolarization and this is how sad it is. I live in St. Johns County, which I don't know if you know or not is like 2/3 Republican in one through Democrat and I actually am having a bit of a problem with that. I am surrounded by Trump signs and all that. That although I will admit I hope I'm here sign on my on my lawn.

24:34 But my neighbor across the street who was the one who came to our house we moved in we bought the house only a year ago in December so she came over she was the first one that introduced yourself and came over and they're stopping her daughter just cats at 4 us sit cats at for us and we just went to Daytona Daytona Beach for a couple of days. So he's gotten to know each other and she saw my Biden sign and she came over and she has no signs on her lawn and all but I was pretty sure that she was Republican and she came over and she said if I tell you that I support Trump. Will you still talk to me?

25:14 Yeah. Yeah. Wow, how did we get to that?

25:22 Although I was just fine up there. I'm sorry. I can't talk to you anymore. But I could have said no, I'm not going to talk to you either. I can't believe you support Trump, you know, which has what kind of happened lately, you know?

25:53 I mean there are things that I still don't understand and we're not supposed to talk about politics too much but you talked about

26:05 Are religion and how you know, a lot of what you you based in life is your belief in your religion and all that but a lot of the things that that I wonder about and that I know that people wore in the left wonder about his needs to put is divided into whatever is how politics could become so entwined. How are politicians on the right now have wrapped himself.

26:31 You know in the man's love God and Jesus and all that sort of stuff. I don't understand how that could have happened, you know end up a big portion of the support is within the Evangelical community. So

26:49 That is I just

26:52 I don't understand that at all.

26:55 I think that is a manipulator and he was the case that man he was wrong. But anyway, so I was not able to vote for her but I am going to this time unless unless I've been praying a lot about it unless I feel fine otherwise, but I think Trump who I think might have been a democrat in the past. I think he found a place where he could get a power use them in a sentence to support his cause of becoming president and that's really what I think has happened. I but I just so displeased and just

27:55 Dismayed by him in the way he acts so many we didn't have talked about immigration. I I think immigration has been awful the way he's handle it. I don't believe just letting anybody in but I think people should be allowed States letting the weary and we need to be under guidelines but not the way that they're just closing the door and treating people and separating families and everything. I'm just I'm just made by the Christian Community and how they have just in this and they are using him and they don't much feel that the United States was created to be a Christian Nation that a lot of our founding fathers were not Christian, but they weren't necessary for my husband.

28:55 The history of so anyway, that's that's my point of view I have on those issues in its master of few questions about you like do you have children and you know, are you a grandmother and all that sort of stuff that we have two boys their 31 and 29. Okay, they both have in one week in the month of May this past may they both moved within 90 miles of each other. The older one has been Michigan where his wife is from and he had moved up there because she wanted because your family they did not hear the news about 5 years ago, and they just moved to the Charlotte area, North Carolina to girl from Columbia, South Carolina and

29:55 He got a job with the state of South Carolina in Columbia. So they move in one close on a house on the Monday of the week in May and the other one close our house on Friday through the crazy crazy time. You have the number 1 2 3 in the youngest turn one in August. We were planning on moving. We've got a contract to build a house up in we're going to be just outside of Charlotte. Don't go I'm just getting to know you. Yeah, sorry. Yes. Yes. I'm enjoying this conversation very much, but I so much want to be around my granddaughters granddaughters different and I always thought I was more wired to handle boys. I wasn't didn't think I'd

30:55 Handle girls very well because I'm not real frivolous or you know, I don't know if you do the drama and everything. I see some of the things that girls do I mean so but I have one daughter who is in between your two sons. She's Thirty and she lives in actually in Mandarin where my I have I have actually two sisters and a brother two sisters want both live in Jacksonville, and we kind of all ended up here in a strange way. I mean, we didn't all plan. Oh, we're moving down to Florida, you know, but I do in Jacksonville and then my daughter moved down here about 5 years ago. She's I think really become a Florida girl. I say I'm not and I don't think I ever will be the the heat and humidity just

31:56 You know, I always tell somebody from Florida when they say I love Florida and I said, yes, it's very beautiful. But were you in your in your air-conditioned car today going to the air-conditioned store going to the air condition school, you know going to the air-conditioned home. I mean, I just went out this morning and when we have just a small yarn, but we have like a little kind of flower area that I'm trying to cultivate a little bit and I without feeling some weeds and I I was just tripping, you know, when it's not that bad out today. It's it's human but it's not I think it's the humidity more than the heat in the past.

32:40 40 years or so in the Metro DC area maybe longer probably longer than that in Virginia DC and then Maryland and so even though that can get really hot and humid. It's nothing like down here and all I can think of is that it's only going to get worse, you know, what the climate changing and stuff like that. So although you're not moving as far north as you know, as you could get into some kind of more temperate weather. It still will be different from here. North Carolina. We were looking more than out in this area, but I had moved and changed jobs when he was in Michigan. He went with a company that has also had up to this office in Charlotte and seven years ago.

33:40 So I'm never promised we were thinking of asking a lure or boom like that elevation and Hoover is what we are looking for this, I will be forever. It'll probably be during the time the kids growing up and and his kids say they're not going to move again. My daughter not really just not want to she wants the kids to stay in one spot. She did not going up if you want your kids to stay in one spot. I understand it. But I expect you know, I agree I agree it is.

34:23 I think it can be a little traumatic at the time but there's so many pluses. You know that you that is in the ended outweighs it I mean it was it was really traumatic. I moved our family moved to the Philippines. My dad was in Vietnam with the US government not not in in the army or anything like that. He was he was working for usaid agency for International Development and he was stationed in Vietnam. So our choice was to either stay in Arlington Virginia where we were living where we only see him once a year are moving to the Philippines in because the Philippines is I think it's probably an hour flight from Vietnam something like that. We get to see him every six weeks.

35:08 Give me so my mom said no. No, we're moving to the Philippines even though

35:13 She would have been happy to stay in one place. She is dumb. She lived in in Connecticut all her life. She's a a Polish Catholic and see when I talk to her about, you know, my husband because one of the things that happened when I was first married is that my mother kind of disowned me for 5 years. Yeah. It was really difficult. Yes, you pretty much for two reasons one that he was black in the second is because he was Muslim. So she said, you know in that was not my mother at all. My mother was a kind person. She she did a lot of times things but afterwards even though she never kind of apologized she did try to get me to understand and she said living in

36:05 Connecticut living in a very insular Polish American Catholic Community

36:12 She had one black.

36:16 Young woman in high school with her one out of a class of several hundred. I'm sure and I'm sure you know never talked to her maybe or said hello or something like that. So it's easy to be prejudiced about people you just don't have any experience with or don't know you know, but she did come around and ask about tigers and the really interesting thing is that we used to tease her about this all the time. She did you know

36:48 It really ended up I think loving my husband more than I love him. I mean he was the cat's pajamas because we used to tease about my father and say that he couldn't even tell you where screwdriver was never mind use it. I mean he was he just didn't do anything around the house at all. My husband does tons of things. I mean, he's done really big jobs laying tile and you know doing some electrical stuff. And so when we used to go down to visit my mom in Florida when we were still up in Maryland and in that area, she's all these tasks lined up for him to do like I really need a light over my stamp. Do you think you could put that in?

37:32 I really want a new clock. You know, what kind of cloth do you think I should in all this sort of stuff and I think she was so impressed with how kind you is an how much she wanted her love and hurt her respect and all that that he was he became her favorite. You know, she a I could have gone in the house and she'd be like hi Bonnie and then turn so but I'm glad it turned around that way. It is still hurtful and I think about it, but at least it happened before we adopted our daughter.

38:17 So that my mother accepted my daughter completely, you know and my daughter's I think I mentioned in there what I wrote is biracial. So, you know. Even if she was adopted we got the mix that what we would have had, you know, Henry had birthed children. So yeah, it was I who you expected me to be? No, I'm not going to say why

38:57 Experiences I have had made me think that if that

39:03 Death somebody I talk to who's conservative what kind of kind of put my teeth on edge where I I'm not very confrontational so I wouldn't say oh, I can't believe you believe that, you know, I kind of do what you do. I want to hear what you have to say and what's different and all that sort of stuff.

39:20 But if somebody is really some kind of fanatic Lee or really in One Direction, I will can just sit there and grit my teeth and be uncomfortable to the whole thing happened before and I was really leery about it happening again. So I'm I'm delighted. I really enjoyed it and I was apprehensive. I was worried, you know, you know that we might have some serious disagreement about something that's really up, you know for sure both of us but not at all that's happened. So it's it's been very good. I probably couldn't come up with any more questions not talk about politics, but you can't try to dissuade but so of course politics is so big right now. That's what we're going to be thinking about. It's tough, but that was most of our conversation when

40:20 I like to know a lot more stuff, you know, especially about the stuff we do have in common, you know, so there's nothing to keep us from having lunch together know I know absolutely think we should I will share something with you this this is going to sound a little disturbing but it's not I'm just been diagnosed with kidney cancer. But if you but if you want to have any cancer make it kidney because all they're going to do is go in and freeze the cells in cells die and it becomes Scar Tissue not to get too in detail. But what it means is I have to be probably a lot more careful about going out and stuff like that with Kobe Vino. When are you moving?

41:13 Does not turn on when he okay. Well can we counted cross our fingers that there will be a vaccination before then that works, you know guess we can hope we never know. I'm I'm looking to having accident. I had a surgery this year was supposed to be in May getting to ride the July for hip replacement which I did but the process of it probably is aggravated a December 1st. Wait, so did you have the hip replacement think it was May 6th or 8th and and it's cut off the governor cut off the you removing elective surgeries. I just missed it. And so they got delayed to July. I had it done July 14th.

42:13 Do the therapy I had for that my left knee started reacting up, which it was in bad shape. I had had it first looked at three years ago nearly three years ago and they reactivated and yes, it's bone on bone and it's been giving me trouble. So we'll see it has good days and bad days with you strange to decide to do it because of arthritis. I think I probably was inflamed from maybe some some accident. You know, how we can sometimes I've had both of them to be on the left side and when they pray for the hit my right hip looks fine. He said you're never going to have any problems right hit the left hit was in and deteriorating bone on bone. The bottom of the hip had us some distance from cavities in it and some you know, it was definitely going in very bad shape.

43:13 Black me. I'm thinking I fell hit my left knee. Jart it up to the hip. So the damage was all done on that one side is what I think it's got pavement over big huge live, oak tree roots arthritis accelerated or worse and about to scream and then it's like Ronald Reagan. There you go again because I have two knees are bone-on-bone. I have I have already ate, so mine is mostly osteoarthritis in my knees.

44:13 You know nursing them along. I've had the shots in the knees that we that really helped. They don't it doesn't help a lot of people but for me, it was like a miracle one shot ahead the cortisone shot and that really flirted up really. Either one of those the ones that I had were called high Algin element. It's not cortisone at all. It's just my understanding is it's more of something that puts a cushion in between your knee. So you're not so bone on bone and I was ready to have knee surgery. They said that's all you can do and I said and then I found a doctor who said I try to prevent any sort of knee surgery as much as they can give me the shots and I'm telling you Trish. It was like a miracle and they're bothering me now. I walk for exercise. So, you know, I can't do as much as I used to walk by 4 miles a day.

45:13 When I can't do that, I do it every other day now couple mile female so-called getting older rank.

45:25 Husband and I couldn't get myself up their mouths, but I said we're putting a TV up. That'll do it. And I have a rule that I was certain things only if I want to see the next episode of something I have to get on the treadmill. I've gotten back up to 40 minutes a day and I'm 26 and I've got Nets finally got enough I can use the end about 2.2 so fast, but I can't stand the heat outside. So it's got to be in I can't go outside and I do outside and I come home and I look like I've had a shower, you know, but then I definitely have to go take a shower. You know, I can't stay like that. So so I do it.