Brad Kirshenbaum and Alexandra Kirshenbaum

00:03 My name is Alexandra. Christian Mom. I'm 35 years old from Chicago, Illinois, and I'm here with my husband and my name is Brad kirshenbaum. I'm 36 years old. I'm from Omaha, Nebraska. And I am here with my wife, Alex.

00:29 Do you have a question?

00:32 I I have a list of great questions in front of me, actually.

00:38 So it's weird if we're trying to to go down this road, I think what you do, I don't want to kind of ease into it a little bit. Where, where did it go?

00:59 You have a question now. Otherwise I can start.

01:03 So when when you first found out that we were, we were going to be having only nine you pictured what the first year for life would be like did you think I obviously did not think that there would be a once-in-a-lifetime. Hopefully bubble pandemic, but how did you imagine that first year?

01:28 I mean, I was, I am, I knew was going to be tough because I still felt like I was adjusting to a new job as well and moving to a new state trooper, not new here. But, you know, just being in a city in a different perspective than we had been before. When we used to live here in their early twenties and mid-twenties. And now it's sprained, her early thirties, and we have a child and what living in Chicago's going to be like with a child. So it's kind of like an exciting and nervous. I wish I was like more concerned about like feeding her at daycare and then driving South to my dog.

02:14 And I remember one of the things like when in the first couple of months.

02:23 And as top of a baby as she has some relief of her going today, it also became this like conundrum of like, while my maternity leave his kind of sucks and then

02:44 You know what? I'm trying to think about what my maternity leave could have been like, and could I have that time back when time with her without a well-spent, when she wasn't crying 24/7. And so, then when it became a very apparent that Buy return to work day, was also going to be the starter from you working from home. My, you know, I act, I shipped. It was exciting because I, I also felt like I was going to see

03:15 And spend time with her when she was in a better place for her and not be so colicky and and upset. But also then that was like a very few know your fault. Because now I had managed working from home and caring for an infant, all I want. So I do know, I am in a nutshell like I don't even know what I could have picked her out a lot. And then what I tell people, no,

03:46 I don't know how to raise my kids and not in a panda. Do we have, we have no frame of reference for that? What about you? I think of that, for me and, you know, it was a lot of the same stuff about, you know, we already knew that coming back in our in her early thirties, would be very different than living here in our mid-twenties. I don't know. There's always going to be in anticipation of that being different and then having

04:19 I guess I was out a little bit more that first year that we lived in Chicago than you were because you were pregnant, not feeling great. And I was with a lot of my friends who had kids tonight. Yes, I went from, oh gosh, we moved here and we're never going back to the old, enjoy the city to you. No kind of feeling very hopeful that okay, you know what? This is actually pretty fun and we'll get through the rough patch and, you know, and doing things and that'll be really nice release. And I had to pull thought in my head about the timing of everything is okay. Have her in the winter and then, you know, we'll get kind of a committed to the whole deal and then by made you and we're going to be

04:58 Leaving Parenthood and will be will be will be able to enjoy ourselves and you'll be out and it won't be the same, but that's not the end of the world because like, I don't need to know, we don't need to go out for 12 hours at a time. You know, 3 or 4 hours stretch is okay. And then, the hardest part was watching you going to work and then watching you struggle during the day because she was so colicky. And then we start the kind of hit a point. Where ain't you turn the corner a little bit and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I remember having a conversation right before everything. Got shut down that you were okay, you'll maybe at least these last couple weeks ago cuz I haven't had a chance to do that. And I mean no sooner. Did you say that then you couldn't go anywhere to do anything if you wanted to do and that was the hard.

05:58 Part of it was the light at the end of the tunnel of the pot of gold, at the end of the rainbow. All of that for you, knowing that they are to this hard was being able to enjoy a lot of the fun stuff with her and show her the city and you'll just get out and about how to really different upbringing. And I think either you or I did because we were both raised in Suburban areas. And I think that was the most frustrating part is, it was right there, you know, you can we go for a walk so we could see you what it could be. But it wasn't and it got harder and harder because we never had the opportunity. And I, I guess I felt guilty even though there is no blame to be passed around to it if she wasn't getting that experience and that we weren't able to do that again, through no fault of our own. It was just, you know,

06:46 And I McMahon and so is that was the biggest differentiation was there? There was no, you know, there was no relief for her and for us you might have it said we're going to kind of see things. At least I can sorta see memories and colors and for its out of the sounds like for the first five months of her life until they care open up for it. That's the delineating point. That's what it is. It's just like it was overcast all the time. I don't remember any sunny days and it sucks so bad, but it is sort of how my memory has no pun intended, clouded things, and immediately even just having that little bit of relief, a being able to it went from hell. You said you were worried about taking her to daycare as I can. Neither of us experience daycare going up. And then it went to this is going to be great. It better be great because there has to be a

07:46 And that's honestly, it's weird. I got January through, May is just overcast in my mind. And then June July, August. All the sudden you do, you get the blue skies and you remember the positive in a little bit of relief? And, you know, it's not like it was theoretically, it's not like it was much better. It's not like it was more to do and we can go outside but it really do that much outside with a seven-month-old who can't walk and go get sunburn by looking at the sun. And so it was you I think that was that always kind of be going to be enduring memory out. I will literally never forget the first day. We took her to daycare, not because of what I thought it would be, which was an emotional experience to say goodbye. And you don't handing her off to somebody else besides a smile. I felt like it was more. It was left for her and more for us at that point.

08:46 Of course, were speaking from a very selfish perspective because it was so difficult. But at the same time, I

08:53 Hurt. Like, you know, as you described, you know, our initial thoughts of what Parenthood is going to be like living in the city.

09:03 Dramatically shifted. Not just because of her colicky Nest but also because we are restricted on where we go and what we could do. And like, that's not a way for her to live in this land. And also, like now you're stuck home with two, parents were working from home and trying to, you know, manage their relationship relationship like working right next to each other and, you know, and that's not a space for her to like rub. It's like daycare to me was like a relief for. I mean, I can't washing her going to daycare today with such excitement and enthusiasm, which she has never once, questioned walking in now. Like she always got in and all of her teacher's been so welcoming for her to her and all her friends. And it's like, well,

10:03 But I don't want to be stuck at home with my miserable parents either, you know, and and I think it was yeah, I would be sick of us too. If I were her.

10:24 To go to where I feel like.

10:30 Your work, your school, your family, every all of those lives that we live a separate life of lies, our student lives. Including we are all in the same place. And I think there's it's when you don't have that the vision of space in that division of like environments. It just, I don't know, makes things more difficult, you know, even now

11:01 I've never been one to like at 8 p.m. Check my work email as I've always said, I don't get paid enough to do that. But like, you know here I am. I just checked my e-mail it. When you throw in Parenthood to that and then like, you know, raising me. That's not the environment. I want to race for it either, you know, so it's this very like,

11:30 Maybe if we had a bigger space, I don't know for the record for all future generations to Library of Congress. We worked two and a half feet for each other for the entirety of the pandemic when you're not. But yeah, but yeah, that would that's that's a whole different at the whole different can of worms. I also, you know, I wonder why more? I feel like we are probably the most Frank and open people talking about. We were ready for her to go to daycare and thank God, daycare, open back up and

12:23 I wonder why more people aren't willing to talk about it like that because everybody who I see in line at school when you talked about a lot of them like I was craving it open, but I'm just having a moment. Okay, that's nice. I mean you could say that but I know you don't mean it. I know that you were happy to bring it back.

12:48 I mean, I am and, you know, I never ever grew up and I feel like through the same, I never grew up.

13:00 Waiting for the day to become like I was never I never envisioned that life for myself. Not that it was impossible or than one. Cuz I asked Lee wanted it, but it wasn't like my

13:15 Yeah, my mom always said that all I ever wanted was, you know, all I ever wanted was to be a wife to play a dog. Mom. I'm going to be a human mom. I'm going to be an employee and hopefully a, very talkative and I feel like a lot of parents like,

13:50 Mommy, I don't even know what to call it, but I sure don't put myself out there. I mean, I think for the sake of my child and my husband, you know, it's probably best that I

14:04 Focus on myself to I mean, you know in that again, I was probably that's another thing to win the pandemic. That like, there were also like learning these new role. Like, what does it mean to be in the context that we were thrown into? If you will, like, how different would we be any different parent has a pandemic, not sort of.

14:34 I don't know if it changed me but like it certainly provided a different perspective to raise a kid in. And

14:43 I do not like it's 2020. I I have no idea what life would have been like and what type of Mom I would be in but I also feel like my

14:53 Stress levels in the pandemic, escalated entirely that you know needing that stays between me and my child is also also the space between me and my husband for it. Like I needed that alone not alone.

15:11 Meet. I might you know, whether it's just me being home by myself going on my phone or reading a book or

15:21 You know, the one. The one that I used a million times is we never got a chance to miss each other and only now, or really getting that opportunity to a degree at me, traveling at the mark of work. And you going to visit friends. I think that, you know, who the first opportunities we've had to genuinely say, like, hey, I miss you, you know, after spending every waking minute together for the last 15 months. I haven't seen you much in the last month or so. And it's willing to admit.

15:58 Either when you talk about, yes, what's up?

16:06 You're sick of yours.

16:10 Yeah, I mean, I think I feel bad saying it the same way. They said they feel bad saying anything. It's not overwhelmingly positive.

16:21 She's right. We love her. I think they were pretty good parents. We're doing the best we can bury like, oh, gosh. What is wrong with that? But ultimately, I like to think that our honesty about what any situation, is it something that the benefit to us and probably help? Keep us. Sane. I needed if we had tried to pretend that everything was great the entire time and that like, okay. Yeah. I know. This is more detrimental than it would have been beneficial.

17:04 I think that I've learned that while I am incredibly patient person. There are limits to my patients everybody. You know, there's a certain point where it take a long time to get there. But once I'm there at it's a lot easier to cross the patient's threshold and that it's I used to always think of it as a patient with this bit more impatient with that. But it becomes a sliding scale, everything kind of Moves In units and I might still have extra patience for certain things. But as as its windows with one intends to move further away from the other, thank you for for drinking, got to be Brad energy mug, by the way, I'm glad they gave it to me, but I think he got the big one.

17:55 Like I've learned. I mean honestly, I think I've learned how much we need each other and specifically how much I need you to be successful in a lot of things. I don't know that I ever, I was at preciate it, if that's the right word, as much as we have in the last year and I mean, well, actually, I take that back.

18:29 From too much are hoverboards financially or emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was, that's probably the biggest thing and it was I think that was a really hard for anything for me to admit as somebody who would always thought. Like, I got this, I can always help other people that, you know, I can take care of myself and still Provide support to others and, you know, it took me a long time throughout parenting and again, you know, who knows if it's a byproduct. Apparently. We're supposed to be a long time to get to the point where, you know, I felt like we we were just alternate Lee finally like leaning on each other and saying, hey, I like I can't do this right now and or being able more specifically probably will read as well as possible what the other person needs and when they're like and does not totally,

19:28 I don't have the energy level tonight. I wish I did or this morning or whenever, you know, just trying to figure out how we can really, we've always said we're good teammates and we're Partners we figure all this stuff out, but I feel like one thing that we never really had to do to use the teammate metaphor was to use a sports analogy, that can I come back from a deficit to figure out how to Rally back. We were always good at playing with the lead and like, okay, things are good. How can we make them better? And I think this Parenthood as really, I should say, all I want to say out loud at that Forest has been allowed us to explore. Okay, how can we rally back? How can we, you know, how can we chip away at something? That is not positive right now, but give it to a positive place. And I think that's I think that's a really valuable thing. That should hopefully the service for the rest of our lives.

20:28 I think that we can press the lot of learning. A lot of relationship ain't into this one year, which as hard as it was, you know, there's part of me that thinks that again, I'm not sure that's worth, trading it out in a heartbeat. I think, despite its

20:46 Challenges and even like the level of stress that both of us experienced. I would not have traded that. I mean, it never happened and we didn't have sex. Like, I got up at the way that it happened, you know, obviously.

21:06 We were fortunate to through their negligence Tate healthy Allen, Library Congress, document the building, on the curtains on word, horrendous and we are. And we have a job and we have

21:40 Yeah, sure the beginning, you know our plan child care and support was a little tough. But I mean, you know, it's funny that you brought up that you're you you recognize your patience level is not as great in this area as other areas or you know, and I would say which is funny because relationship-wise.

22:11 I didn't know.

22:13 We all be both now. I think our friends and family would say Brad has far more patience than Alex does and I would agree, but I would say it when it comes to Parenting. I have way more patients, which is the sterical cuz I would have never ever. I mean before having kids and then you can we talked about having kids in anytime. I imagined you as a father. I always imagined myself flying off and I think that my patience I I don't think I realized how patient I could be with Doctor our dog.

23:13 Their old curmudgeon.

23:18 You know, angry. That's laying right here next to me. You know, when you adopt a dog and you don't know their history was 7 years old and you know, we had a gas a lot with him and you know, meeting his needs and that takes a lot of responsibility and selfless and your patience. And you're also not as patient with him as I am. And I think that that I know people probably think I'm nuts by saying that I think being at all, really helped, prepare me to be a human mom and, you know,

24:04 I think.

24:06 In terms of patients, like, I don't know. I would love to give you a like a piece of advice, but, you know, how to be patient cuz you're, I think, I think you're excellent, but

24:19 I think it's a good example, one more time until we leave.

24:25 I think that I I guess I probably shouldn't have been surprised that I had less patience than I did for honestly for Gunther and it today, and he said that a new patient with Lena per se, never considered inpatient.

24:40 I don't just left ocean, inspiring to see you be super patient, knowing that, you are an impatient person and that you can kind of compartmentalize that with both of them in your, like, your level of empathy for them. It's so unbelievably. Hi. It's it's unbelievable events. The Unbelievable part, but it's the yet just being able to see that and think, you know, it's motivating being able to see you in action and think I'm okay. She can do that. You know, I know that you're going through more than I am, you know, with being at home all day with Lina when depending first started at Irwin born and then

25:40 And in handling all of that. And then I can sit here and I try to tell myself. It's fine, you know, just compartmentalize what you can for now, and then I'll figure out a healthier way to deal with it. I think I've gotten better at it. But they're still every once in awhile, man. Tell you what does the other room and pees? No reason whatsoever can't do it that it's just because that's another line of communication for. They can't talk. So like what I was going to say, it's what I should have. Like maybe seeing my lower level of patients coming is because when I was teaching, I always had a harder time. You go through and you do, your practicum is an idiot. You know, you busy.

26:40 A hard time with a second and third graders and I didn't high school student so I can reason with and, you know, explain things to and nothing. Nothing understood. But at least I knew they were. So I could use the full range thought with that. Where is, you know, kind of Tony things down for for smaller kids was always a little harder for me, but you know, it's the opportunity for growth and Improvement and I watch you do it. I see how you do it. You suggest things and you think of things that I just don't tonight. I love you for it because I'd let you know, if it wasn't for that. I probably have her, you know, eating some very like okay, we got to make sure we get your way. Make sure you get your card in your protein and your fast and not got to learn any what you mean. You don't want to let you know. You're one of those again, what you talkin about?

27:32 Bonnie. Raitt, I feel like you would place your extension versus where I would place my attention that. Where am I going to get? Well, I don't care what she and her hair and she wear pants or shorts to school.

27:55 Those are basic things.

27:58 Yeah, we're close, eat food. Take care of your teeth. I mean, but Market bumper sticker.

28:11 I think they're all great.

28:17 You know, I miss her double check with her infant double chin, but she was just an infant but tall and lanky about is I don't even know the story but just like, I absolutely love watching her taking the world. I mean, you know, it's true. I don't think you're you can ever experience that except for, when raising a kid. If you don't think maybe you're not. You are very involved in it. And I filed our baby's life that you will see all those Milestones. Like, she's incredible. I mean, I her ability to communicate is unreal to me.

29:17 I cannot believe how well.

29:23 In general, I mean, I know there's not a story but

29:39 Nighteye, but I understand why people all people think their kids are genius because like I watch her, but yes, of course.

29:50 That's been one of my favorite things to watch to, but in terms of a favorite story.

30:05 I don't know. Maybe it's a byproduct of the fact that there hasn't been opportunities for a ton of stories.

30:15 I think that, you know what? I think this is a recent story and this is one that I think, I'll probably tell for a long time and turns into the desert of the hectic, nature of parenting, or how we can go from 0 to 60 so fast and it was when you were watching your mom's dogs, and so, for contacts, for all of our you worked out here, Alex, Alex's parents went out of town and she was watching their dogs. And as well as our. Gunther and her sister's dog. There are a lot of sad, so I was taking care of Nina during the week and then she said you want to bring her out here for the weekend and got to recharge batteries and then back that we were doing this self.

31:06 Like the hell, you know, we get the Friday and I think it out. We're home. Free here. All I have to do is give her a bath dinner. Going to give her a bath and then we're going to get the car, still asleep in the car or go out to the suburbs area. Could be great. And, you know, I'm going to have 36 hours that you can get the house clean and decompress for a second. And it was immediate was five minutes of just absolute chaos, everything. We're getting ready and pour out of the bathtub. And she I thought that, you know, maybe she pooped but before so I did a wrapped-up get her dressed and everything and then she does Pope and so we don't have a lot to buy, you don't least that's over with. So I can get her wrapped up in that, you know, she's crying the entire time still and it's just a lot going on and I'm

32:06 I need to pick up are my brother-in-law as well because we were going to watch this stuff. Works with me. It was a whole thing and some not paying attention. You like 12% and everything around. You did nothing basically and trying to get her and she's upset, get her in the car. Go go pick up. Go pick up John and I are just remember, looking out of my pants and like that is poop on my pants. I kneeled in her poop. And I in

32:36 I cleaned up, because it down a floor after she poop in the diaper, but I just had a need for a poop all over my jeans and I'll enjoy the carnival and then I just got done cleaning up, poop. I realize I got to poop my pants. Like, we're going to drive to the suburbs with if I could be pants. I'm sorry. And it was, it was just one of those things where you never know. You know, I know I should have known that it was April, you know, we were we were well over a year into this. You think I get smarter, but I didn't, but I do think that I'm at patient has improved because that would have liked April 2020. I think I would have been my Breaking Point.

33:20 The only thing in retro in Uno in retrospect, looking back at that story, is they got, it wasn't wearing shorts because if I had known the old and now probably would have, I would have noticed, probably, but because of how much was going on. Maybe I wouldn't have you never know. So, I don't know. That's, that'll that will stick with me for a long time. I remember when you got to my mom and you will look on your Eevee's, it looked exhausted. There is no way of going very much, but you cannot hide your exhaustion. I mean, you're terrible at that, so I can even if you've been like, yeah, I know, I'm good. No.

34:09 You're terrible at that.

34:12 Yeah, I think I'm really bad at hiding. What's on my mind in general, from my face. I can hide it with my words, but not necessarily with how I look her or act.

34:25 There's no point in even for people can't tell. You can always die.

34:34 What?

34:41 Number one.

34:48 What do you go to like in?

34:52 What do you see for?

34:55 Austin the next year.

35:00 Relationships in June 22nd 2022.

35:10 Let's see.

35:13 I hope that you do for Lena.

35:17 I hope that I look back on the year, going forward for the next 365 days in the exact opposite way. I look at the year before in the sense that I ride still feel like there's so much to show her and her to experience and for us to all do together and for her to grow and obviously, you know, I'm so pleased with how she's how she's grown in her. She's a Brazilian. She's been through all of this. She doesn't know any better, but that doesn't mean that it's ideal or her preferred situation. But I hope that we can always be kind of look at the decision. And, you know, we just Aquis in financially, how we decide to stay in the city or whether we, you don't move out to the suburbs, you know, I would like to, at the very least, you know, make sure that we experienced all we can with her and and with each other, you know, there's there's a lot of pain.

36:17 Shut up, you know, excitement and energy. I think it's still for you and I to be in the city because we haven't been in the same city together. We have technically speaking. But Anthony, your experience could not have been more different than my experience. You're so much of the socialization and and things that we do, you know, where hard if you're pregnant or are hard, if you don't have any energy or you just don't feel well or you're exhausted because, you know, we've been, we've been inside and parenting all day and the things that we want to do anything that we like to do with your literally, doing things like to be inside. But, you know, going to, we're going to a show and you're going to a bar going to restaurant taking advantage of the city.

37:17 You know, I hope that we are able to look back on that and you in a few. We've maximize that to the degree that were comfortable over over the next year and that's not your summer slippers, easy. Anybody, if you can enjoy yourself during summer in Chicago, when it's not locked down that you do something wrong, but you know, doing you're doing wintery things, and being indoors and figuring out fun things that we can do that. Brains just didn't have the capacity for last year. Even, you know, December, December January, or just we're just so mentally wiped out because like you said, sometimes you just hopping on and working at 8 at night and I'd rather do that because I'd rather have on them working. If I'm going to get that the energy to do so. And I think, you know, what? If I do that, that'll make tomorrow better. Instead of like I have to do this because I haven't had time to do anything else.

38:08 So I would I would but my hope would be to take the positive from the past year, which is everything. We talked about combined with the fact that you don't work from home. At least three times as much as we thought we would, and are able to actually capitalize on that because last year didn't really give us an opportunity to do so, but I don't want to look back and see the opportunity given to us and say, we never really took advantage of what we just kind of settled into a different routine. That's why I've always hated this idea of The New Normal. It's like, okay, we was going to do what you did before kind of different, but why, why would you not completely reevaluate? Everything you do because everything around you as we were at the point where it was like I should really it's amazing that work. Let's Alex work from home one day a week. That's so cool. And I wish I could do that. I wish I could do.

39:09 Two days a month. Do you know? That would be great and now it's to the point where I got the office two days a week, but you know, that's a whole different set of opportunities and and feeling that you do we have in front of us, but I hope that we are able to take advantage of it and use it to make me his life better and you know, make our relationship better and drive General happiness.

39:42 Do you know don't want to rush but like, you know?

39:53 Basically make up for last year. I don't want to operate it with the mindset of like we're making up for lost time. Kind of like what you said where it's your re-evaluating.

40:06 You're just re-evaluating how you approach life? And I feel like we would have been for that you, but that anyway, being new parents in 2020, but now, you know, it's not just in your parents also, and a different way of experiencing Chicago matter, like, you know.

40:32 I certainly want Mina to experience what it means to live in the city. You know, we've always said that we wanted to raise our children in this weather. We will do. That is to be I think.

40:58 Really not taking the city for granted and in our relationship and our family Dynamics are granted. I feel like last year. Yes. We're a little bit more restrictive in in what we could do an experience together, but now that we are vaccinated and things are opening up that I want to be is very intentional for the sake of all we live in the city. Let's go to ask Brian bielak, bring her to you know, I want to be very intentional with what we do and I don't know what that looks like. I'm sure you don't we think about it. We can make it happen by it. I think it goes back to what are values are in raising kids and that hasn't changed, you know, even though we had

41:58 Like the last year are what we want for our child in. Our future, children Remains the Same, and it's sort of. Re-evaluating help me. We get to that point, you know, we always envisioned we both work, we go to acceptable to Wina in point in time. You know, I think that's she's down the street at school. My time now is more value, value my time, incredibly Morin, and I've also realized too. The most important thing to me and my family. I left work. I love what I do. But again, this last year has really shown me that it

42:53 My prioritizing is has completely shifted. Time is money. And that's huge to me because I don't get paid like maybe I feel like we should be

43:15 That wasn't for the next year. I want to keep reminding myself of that and not take for granted. You not take for granted the time that we have together a space that we have. I mean, I know people think we're nuts when you know, we work together and 1100 square foot apartment, which I think is sizable for apartment living, but the fact that we work to heat up heart. I love that. You know, it's how we started our relationship in grad school, learns to work together. Well, before we worked really, but, you know, even as friends, and I don't want to take that for granted.

44:01 I never thought about the grad school peace in the cemetery is at?

44:09 I love you. Love you to think about how we feel about each other, but I certainly would not be where I am today and a 70% life without you. And I'm so grateful for you. Especially this last year. I would not have survived. Truly, stunning survived is a very extreme. My mental health Would Suck Without You.

44:39 Likewise.

44:42 From my only other question. I think we're coming up on time. And I think, I mean, I've got a meeting, I have to get to fairly shortly. I can push it a little bit but what will you do? When, you know, when we inevitably sit around and just ask us questions about life because that's totally what teenagers do it when she's in. She's like 15 and were years old. When she says what was you know, I always hear these stories about the pandemic. A lot of her life. What will you say? We're interviewing. She says, what was it like?

45:27 Yeah, I'm very I'm probably email her at least once per month.

45:46 Maybe a little less. But yeah, that's why I got your email. I mean, it when I thought comes to mind and I think it's what I think is important for her to know for herpes.

46:03 Yeah.

46:19 Give me closing questions results for me.