Brenda Harkins and Kate Faggella-Luby

[00:03] BRENDA HARKINS: Hi, my name is Brenda. I am 63 years old. Today's date is September 24, 2024. I am in Bedford, Texas, in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And I'm here with my one small step partner, Kate.

[00:20] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: And my name is Kate, and I'm 47 years old. It's September 24, 2024, and I'm in Arlington, Texas, not far from Bedford in the DFW area. And I'm here with my one small step partner, Brenda.

[00:38] BRENDA HARKINS: I'm just going to take a minute and read your bio, Kate. So Kate is a native Texan, a mom of two, a wife of 22 years. I've always worked in nonprofit educational and ministry work. I've lived out of the state, but returned to Texas to be near my extended family. I believe people are basically good and that a meaningful life is about caring for others. I want my kids to grow up safe, healthy, and free to make their own choices in life. I believe that we all do better when we all do better. I lost a family member to suicide 10 years ago.

[01:23] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: And here's Brenda's bio. You say, I'm a native Texan, a follower of Jesus, wife to a wonderful man who is your greatest cheerleader. I love that. And mom to many. You have a blended family with seven children that are his, yours, and his, mine, and ours. I have adopted biological and stepchildren, along with quite a few bonus kids that you claim and that claim you. You value courage, humility, authenticity, integrity, and respect. Arrogance is probably what makes you most angry. And helping someone discover how awesome they are brings you the most joy. You love people. And I will say that we have had one earlier conversation as one small step connect conversation. And what drew me to your bio was that part about your. About you loving people. I'm right there with you. I think. I'm glad we have that in common.

[02:28] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah. Yes, me too. It was a wonderful conversation before and I'm looking forward to going deeper today. So this first question of why did we want to participate in one small state? You want to go first?

[02:44] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Sure, yeah. I would say in general, I have felt discouraged about how difficult it is to talk across political divides. And one example that came to mind is that there's a house that I pass by every day when I take my daughter to school or when I'm on my way to work. So I pass it at least twice a day. It's not exactly in my neighborhood, but close, you know, close enough that I go by this house every day. And in 2020, the person who Lives there had a massive sign like, I don't 20ft long that said Trump Pence 2020 make liberals cry again. And it just made me so sad and mad. And, you know, every time I thought this person, I just refuse to believe that this person really wants me to cry. I absolutely identify as a liberal. I know a lot of people don't like that, but I thought if I come across this person in the grocery store or at the library around the corner, I don't think that. I don't think they really want to make me cry. So, like, what is it about this moment that we're in that makes him feel like he can put up a big sign that says that? I just thought, bleh. So. And, you know, so I honestly, what. I. I started to pray for him and to just, you know, say, like, help me to figure out how to. How do I see that person as a human being, and how do I help them see me as a human being? Because I don't. I don't think that's what we really want for our country.

[04:41] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah.

[04:42] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Tell me about you. Why. Why is it that you want to be here, Brenda?

[04:45] BRENDA HARKINS: Wow. I mean that. I just want to take a minute and say, wow, like that. First of all, that says something about your heart that you would say. I don't think that person really wants me to cry. That's. That says something big about your heart. And that's a sad. That's a sad sign. That's a sad tagline. So, wow. I have not seen that. I did not see that. And I saw a lot in 2020, but that was not one of it. Okay, so why. Why I wanted to participate in one small step really goes back to 2016, and it was during the election season of Clinton and Trump, and it was about two weeks before the election, and my husband and I were at a dinner with a lot of business people that were, like, professional people. Some of them were business owners, some of them were executives. And I'm saying that just to kind of give you a feel for what the dinner was, was like, you would think they had somewhat of intelligence and maturity. And so not that long, half an hour, maybe not that long into the dinner, someone said, so what does everybody think about our new. Our first woman president? And it became really obvious really quickly that there were two different sides at the table, very strong opinions at the table. And the table really just kind of erupted, not necessarily in volume, even though a couple of people raised their voice. But what was. So the attitude that people had Toward one another that had different opinions was mind blowing. I mean, I really was. I sat there, shocked. One person got up and left the table. The attitude towards the other side was that they were enemies. I mean, all of a sudden, this dinner where we were just having fun together and talking became them and us, you know, And I'm. I just thought, what in the world is going on? I started praying. I was sitting there going, do I get up? Do I leave? What do I do? Do I say something? Do I not? And this phrase, loud is not a language just dropped in my head. And at first, I didn't know what it meant, and then I just sat there watching, and I realized, oh, this is exactly what this means. Loud is not a language. Like, even the attitudes that are loud are keeping communication from happening. And if we could just listen to one another, ask questions, understand. Understanding doesn't require agreement. You know, we can just understand one another. We could maybe get somewhere. So that. That really highlighted a lot to me, and I began a journey towards many more conversations. And then 2020 brought a whole lot of those conversations up as well. Racial tensions, Covid stuff, you know, all the different sides. There was such division on everything all of a sudden. And so when I heard about storycorps, I'm like, oh, this right here, this is what needs to be happening in our country, and I want to be a part of it. So, yeah, absolutely.

[08:23] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, I hear. I hear that. So I'm really glad we're here together. It makes me feel really hopeful.

[08:30] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah, it did me too late. And I really appreciate it. I appreciate our last conversation. But, you know, one of the things that I wanted to ask you that I didn't ask on our last one was, like, you put something really big in your bio that we never even touched on. And I don't know if you want to talk about it or not, but, wow, you lost somebody to suicide in your family 10 years ago. And I was just. After our conversation, I was looking back over your bio, and I was like, wow. Like, what kind of an impact, personally, did that have on you? And did. Does anything about who you are and what you stand for now have anything to do with that? I'm just curious.

[09:13] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Sure, yeah. You know, I think the reason that I put it in the bio has to do with my sense of how we often don't understand what other people are carrying around. And if we don't understand or try to understand what people are carrying around, it's much easier to be dismissive of them. And so, you know, I, I sort of put out the most painful thing that I've ever experienced because I thought if someone, if I'm sitting with someone who's not inclined to see eye to eye with me, I think that will help humanize me so. We lost my brother in law to suicide about 10 years ago. He has struggled with depression for a long time and you know, I, it was. It's been a really tough experience for our family to, to go through. I wouldn't say it's something that you kind of ever finish going through. You know, it's. It's sort of always there and I, even before that happened. Mental health is an interest of mine. It's part of the work that I do. I'm, you know, I'm trained as a clinical social worker. So I, I care a lot about people's mental health and I know how fragile it is and how serious it is and what a, you know, what a real health issue mental health is. And so, yeah, that's. It absolutely impacts who I am and you know, I think big picture and day to day picture, I'm very, I'm very aware of, you know, how checking in with people and seeing how they're doing and you know, making sure that people feel valued and loved and making sure they feel like they belong, you know, and not to say that Tom didn't feel those things. You know, depression is a debilitating illness that is sometimes fatal, you know, and I don't, I don't think they're necessarily, you know, it wasn't anybody's fault. I think that's one of the really hard things about suicide is link with that piece of it. But if there was less stigma, I think that would have helped him. And if there was more access to mental health services and supports, I think that would have helped him. And if the world was a kinder place, I think that would have helped Tom too. He was a very sensitive person and he, I think he took in other people's pain.

[12:26] BRENDA HARKINS: So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. It's tragic. I have not personally lost a family member to suicide, but I have friends who have and I know that the struggle after the fact is heartbreaking with all of the, what could we have done differently and all of those things. And so, I mean, I think part of what we're doing right here and what StoryCorps doing, one small step connect. I think that this is a part of humanizing people that we all need. That brings a safe place for. Yeah. So, yeah, I really regretted not talking about that last time with you. So I just wanted to circle back. That was a big thing to put out there for us to not even touch on, so. And thank you for putting it out there.

[13:17] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, thanks for asking about it. I think it's hard for people to talk about, and some people would see that and just be like, I'm gonna pretend that wasn't even in there because I don't want to engage with it. So I appreciate your willingness to do that. Something in your bio that I have a question about the kids who you call yours that. That aren't yours. Tell me. Tell me about what that part of your life looks like. That people who've claimed you as a mom figure.

[13:49] BRENDA HARKINS: So back. Oh, I don't know. It's been over a decade. Close to two decades ago, my husband and I were really involved in church ministry. We were on staff at a church, and we went through this interesting journey that we walked out of the traditional church, not away from our beliefs, but just out of that structure, and began having meetings in our home with people. Just real kind of real and raw relationship and bringing faith into that and living life out with each other, like, instead of just seeing each other on a Sunday morning or whatever. And, you know, how are you doing? I'm great. How are you doing? You know, it was like, no, really, how are you doing? And so it became a group that was a really safe place for people to come. And there were some young people that started coming and they told their friends, and a lot of them became quite a few of them had some hard family issues going on and couldn't relate well at the time. A lot of that's been healed since then, which is good. But couldn't relate at the time with their family and just kind of needed a parent figure that would love and accept them where they were, you know? And so that's where a lot of them. A lot of the people started. Well, actually, my friends, my. My children's friends have always been real special to me, and we've continued relationship. My youngest son's best friend growing up, he just brought his new girlfriend over to have dinner with me and my husband the other night just because he wanted us to meet her. And I'm like, well, that's so cool. You. So we just. Yeah, lots of people. It's kind. It's kind of the same thing. We live in a world that isn't very kind. And sometimes, unfortunately, that spills over into how we are with our family members. And I believe that God wants us all to be in family. And so if that's not the family of origin, it can still be a family.

[15:59] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm a big believer in chosen family. The work that I do with kids aging out of foster care, that's exactly what they need is, you know, the people who are going to be family for them, whether they're related to them or not.

[16:14] BRENDA HARKINS: So, yeah, I think that's why I loved what you did when you shared that with me so much that. That to age out of a system and not have family to go to, I can't imagine. So I love what you're doing to. To give them family. Yeah, I. I'm going to jump to another question that I didn't get to get answered. I'm curious about who the most influential person in your life was or has been and what they taught you. Why were they influential?

[16:49] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Well, I mean, my parents, for sure, are the most influential people and continue to be. They are both. So our religious background is Catholic, and my parents were part of sort of a big change in the Catholic church in the 60s and 70s, when lay people were sort of seen as having more of a role. And so they both served as lay ministers for most of their careers. My mom was a hospice chaplain for most of the time that she worked, and my dad did a variety of different ministry things. And so their faith and their example of love for their community and for family and for each other has been incredibly influential. And I, you know, I mean, both of them influenced me in really important and different ways. But when I think about sort of the context of this conversation and politics, my mom is much more of a political person than my dad is, and she has been involved in stuff that. That has been really inspiring to me. So she. In the 1980s. I don't know if you're familiar with the sanctuary movement, but when there was a lot of civil war in Central America, there were refugees trying to come to this country, and they were considered illegal immigrants, even though they were really political refugees fleeing war and political strife. She helped with that movement. She was involved in protesting it. She brought me as a little kid to protests. So that was kind of my first taste of political life. And, you know, she. I mean, she took some personal risks to, you know, to get a family to safety, to a sanctuary church that would give a family refuge during that time, which I'm just super proud of her and inspired by her willingness to live out her beliefs in that way. And, you know, I think the other thing that she has really Taught me politically is if you love something, you want to make it better. And so, you know, it never made sense to me when people would say love it or leave it, or, you know, that you can't criticize this country or you can't criticize the Catholic Church. No, if you love something, you want it to be living up to its highest ideals, and if you don't see that, then you have a responsibility to say something, even when that feels uncomfortable, even when it's going to make people be mad at you, even when it feels hard. I mean, I can feel the anxiety in my own body as I'm telling some of these stories. But. But I think I. I think she. She balanced that with, again, loving people, loving real people and seeing them as beloved children of God. And so. And she continues to do that. I mean, yeah, my mom, one of the things she's doing right now that I'm super proud of is she works for the election administration office during election season, so she helps count ballots and, you know, double check to see that things are, you know, that the signatures on the mail and ballots are accurate and stuff like that. So it's cool. Yeah. How about you tell me. Tell me about you. Oh, you. Sorry, I should let you react to that.

[20:49] BRENDA HARKINS: I mean, I am a disconnection with the 80s and the Central American, the Civil War. Wow. So in 1982, I was actually in El Salvador during the Civil war, adopting my first child.

[21:09] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: No way.

[21:10] BRENDA HARKINS: So when you said that, I'm like, oh, I'm so familiar with all of that. Yes, I definitely am. Yeah. I was 21 years old. And I know it's crazy, but I was one of those that got married right out of high school. I was 18 years old. And, you know, three years into it, I had always wanted to adopt. And my mom was actually doing some missionary work. She. So she was living in the middle of the civil war in El Salvador.

[21:40] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Wow.

[21:41] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah, they had medical missions that went out into the villages where. Yeah, it was. It was extreme. But she had sent some pictures of an orphanage. And I just. I was so drawn to the children, and I thought, oh, my goodness. You know, I. Here in the States, we either had. You had to be married five years or be 25 years old, which. Neither. We'd been married three years, and I was 21 years old and to adopt. And so I just got to thinking, I wonder if there's any way. And so we got the ball rolling through my mom, who was there, and I ended up going over there thinking I would Be there for three days. I was going to go one day get her and go to the court the second day and fly home the third day. And I ended up being stuck there for two months. So it was quite an experience in the midst of all of the bombs and the machine guns and there was an earthquake while we were there. And I mean, it was just, it was crazy. So I love, I love that Chamorros was a part on this side of the border of helping things. Yeah. Helping families on this side. That's awesome.

[22:53] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Wow. Wow, that's. That is an amazing connection. Tell me about the most influential person in your life.

[23:01] BRENDA HARKINS: You know, I think I, when I asked you that question, I'm like, she's probably going to ask me this too. Who is that person? You know, have a lot of historical figures that I'm very, you know, are very influential just because of their lives. But I think as far as a real person, it would be my dad. My parents divorced when I was 10. We had a horrible relationship all through my teen years. And it was around when I was 18 that we started building that back. And so just looking at his life, being grateful that he died when I was 31 and thankful that we had that time together and that I did get to know him more. He was, grew up really poor, worked really hard to do what he dreamed of doing, which was to be a dentist because there was a dentist who had given him shoes one time when he was a little boy and he didn't have any shoes. And he just remembers thinking, I want to be like that man. And he literally locked his eyes on that and became that. He really became that man. So I saw him. He's kind of is a dichotomy here, you know, like he was this very like way, way, way conservative who at the same time, you know, like he worked in soup kitchens and he had a horse ranch and he would hire. I don't know if I should see. You can cut this right. If you're not supposed to say this. Anyway, he would hire people that may not have gone through all of the processes they should have gone through to be here and give him a place to live and help them, you know, make a living while they were working through that process. So I saw both sides of him. I saw the human kind hearted giving back to people because how he had been blessed, but at the same time he had these really, really strong conservative views too. And he was, he was just a mix of a person. He was. And he had a great heart. So yeah, My dad wish I'd had more time with him. Yeah.

[25:15] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah. I love what you said there. I think that's so. To me, what part of what's missing in our conversations is the complexity of real human beings and acknowledging that, like, nobody is nobody fits neatly into the box that they're supposed to fit into. Like, we're all so complicated, and there's more layers to us than any political party will acknowledge or admit. And I. I'm not sure what to do with that. I don't know what. How. How do we.

[26:01] BRENDA HARKINS: You know, I'm with you. I'm with you on that, and I feel like more conversations like this. What I wish. I wish I had known about this at the first of this year, because if I had known about this, I have a feeling, and I'm still going to be on a mission, and maybe we can talk about doing that together. I don't know. But what I wish is that there was within our communities here in dfw, more of a base that had been built, more of a foundation of these opportunities for people here that we live around to have these kind of conversations, to see the humanness of one another, because come November 5th, there's going to be a large number of people that are very upset on one side or the other. We don't.

[26:56] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Absolutely.

[26:57] BRENDA HARKINS: But if we had relationships that were intentional, you know, like, we are intentionally wanting to build bridges with people that we don't see eye to eye with because we want to begin to view people as people again instead of platforms. Just like, you know, when you walked past that sign, that just makes me so angry because, Yeah. I mean, I identify as a Republican, and if I saw that sign, it would make me furious. I'd be like, that is not who I am. That is not at all who I am. But we do that with one another, you know, until we have these conversations and we see, oh, wait a minute. You're like, a really awesome person with a great story and a lot of experiences that caused you to be who you are today, as is each one of us, so.

[27:51] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Right.

[27:51] BRENDA HARKINS: Well, I'm on a mission, Kate. I'm on a mission. I. I am going to be reaching out to people in dfw, and if you want to join, we'll talk off.

[27:59] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, yeah, we. We need it, so. We need it so badly. And I. You know it. I know it. It's easy to blame social media, but I really do think that's part of the problem, because if your only choice is to like or not like some Someone or something. It's like, well, what. That's not about the middle of that.

[28:26] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah.

[28:27] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: What about, you know, where's compromise and where's figuring out, you know, what we do have in common or, you know, even, even for me to say, like, oh, I support this candidate. Well, I don't agree with him about everything. So, you know, and, and you don't agree with every Republican about everything. So how do we. We just, we need, and I think we need to give each other more time. We need to spend more time.

[28:55] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah, yeah. Talking to each other, listening, some safe space to talk. Right. Because. Yeah. One of the questions here also is, you know, have these political discussions, strained relationships, you know, with, with you personally, you know, professionally, within your church, whatever. Curious about that with you? I mean, I know for me it has.

[29:22] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I avoid these kinds of conversations in real life with people and I feel myself tensing up. You know, I, when, when Biden stepped down and Harris was taking his place, I told my coworker, I was like, I am only going into the lunchroom if people are not talking about that. And I walked by and people weren't. And so I sat down with my lunch. And then as soon as I sat down, people and I was like, I just picked my lunch up and I walked that way because I was like, I just can't.

[29:56] BRENDA HARKINS: I just.

[29:57] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: And you know, so I'm, I'm working on softening and not tensing up so much and trying to see can I cultivate the open heartedness that, that I need. I'm curious what's. Tell me about your experience of relationships being strained by.

[30:21] BRENDA HARKINS: So I, I tend to lean in, to conflict instead, instead of leaning away from it. I, I like to know the why, you know, why do we have conflict here? What, what. I want to know the big picture. What's, what's, everything going on? And so I have stepped into conversations that have been wonderful, especially during 2020, like I mentioned, you know, just with different things saying, help me understand what I don't understand. Like, I don't, I don't know what I don't know. Tell me more about this. And those have been good. The hardest have been with people closest to have different perspectives that they don't want to talk about it because they get angry. And my questions, the fact that I don't understand where they're coming from and I even need to ask the question to some of them tells them that I'm a bad person because I even need to ask the question, you Know, So, you know, it's just. It's when we. I think for. For people who feel very, very, very passionately about certain issues, it can be hard to talk to somebody that, you know, doesn't agree. It can be hard to trust that the person really does want to understand, you know?

[31:48] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah. Yeah.

[31:49] BRENDA HARKINS: But I wasn't always that person. I mean, I wasn't. I used to be the person who would debate you, you know, I will not do that anymore.

[31:56] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah. Have you had the experience of someone saying something that you either know or believe is not a fact? And. And then what do you do with that? Because I. For me, I think that's. That's something that feels very touchy when, you know, when something comes up and, you know, I just think, you know, do you get what I'm asking?

[32:30] BRENDA HARKINS: I usually ask a question. Yeah. But that's one of the things that I Learned back in 2016 with that loudest. Not a language thing. You know, it's like trying to say, no, you're wrong. That's not how it happened. This is how it happened. Or this is what really happened. Or you don't understand that. Right. Or, you know, people put their walls up, but if you can actually just let your guard down and lean in enough to say, tell me more about that. How did you. Where did you get that information? I'm interested in knowing. You know, usually it'll play itself out, you know, with. Well, my cousin told me or something, you know.

[33:08] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Right.

[33:09] BRENDA HARKINS: It's.

[33:09] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, I guess I just. It's. I'm. I admire. It takes a lot of maturity to be able to do that. And I, you know.

[33:21] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah.

[33:22] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Even though I recognize that conflict can be productive and valuable, it's not comfortable for me. It. It really is. It is not. It is not in my nature to lean into that, but I. I see the value in it. And so I'm. I'm trying. I'm a work in progress that you.

[33:46] BRENDA HARKINS: Signed up to do. This is a big deal. You know, I have people that I've told about it, and I'm like, you ought to do it. And they're like, no way. No way. But I think that really. I think really, if we could. We, everybody. If we could just take the time to really think about the things that hold us back are the need to be right, the need to be in control, and the need to look good. If we could just let go of that, everything would change. And if we took the time to really think about it, I think we'd realize, you know, like, what does that even mean, to be in control? I'm not in control of anything. I think, you know what? I may be trying to hold all. You know, keep all the balls in the air and do what I want to do, but at the end of the day, I'm not in control of what anybody else does, and sometimes not even control of what happens to me, you know, so just being able to let go of that and realize that, you know, I want to be. I'm right. I'm right. I want people to know I'm right. Well, who says? Who says? Depends on who you talk to is whether you're right or not. And same thing with looking good. Depends on who you talk to is there's just not a blanket. I'm right, I'm in control. I look good. It just doesn't ever happen with anybody ever. Across the board. And if we could just release that, I think we could all breathe and talk better.

[35:14] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah. Yeah. I. What I hear in that is a real spiritual maturity that. That it's about kind of being able to let go of. Of a lot of things and humble yourself, that not grasping onto the need, again, to be in control, to be right. And that is. That takes. It takes a. It takes a big person to do that, I think. And. And I think to me, that that is grace. That is. That is a grace to be able to do that. That is not something.

[35:59] BRENDA HARKINS: I agree.

[36:00] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: We can work at it, but it has to come from God, ultimately. And, yeah, I mean, not. Not to get too religious, but I feel like the lesson that I learn in life is whatever identity that I hold on to is temporary. And the only thing about me that's always and forever going to be true is that I'm a beloved child of God. And that is true of every other person that, you know, whatever. Whatever accomplishments I have, whatever roles I play in my family or in my community, whatever job I have, all of that could disappear at any time. I'm still going to be a beloved child of God, and so are you, and so is Kamala Harris, and so is Donald Trump. And if I can really ground myself in that, it's much easier to open myself up to not needing to be right.

[37:13] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah, that's so good. I have a. I have a good friend who was talking to somebody that was trying to argue with him about the LGBTQ community, and he said, you know what? It's. It's letters. It's just letters, you know? You know, are you a c. Are you a conservative? Are you an L. Are you a liberal? Are you a. You know, are you a D? Are you an R? Are you? And he was like, you know, we can just put all of these letters that say, this is who I identify as. And it's exactly what you said. What he said. He said, you know, when we identify as anything other than a child of God, then we're putting ourselves in a box that keeps other people out. So, anyway, I. I like that you said that. Okay, we got some final questions here.

[38:03] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah. What. What is something that is bringing you joy lately?

[38:10] BRENDA HARKINS: I am studying from a guy who calls himself a neuro theologian. And he. He's studying the neuroscience and scriptures and how they go together. And one of the things that science and research has found is that the joy of looking somebody in the. Or the act of looking somebody in the eye and sincerely meaning it when you say, I am so happy to be with you right now that it literally opens up a joy center in your brain that begins to open up new neurotransmitters, really, that help you when you practice, that help you return to a place of joy from a bad place, you know, from a discouraging place or a place of despair. Helps you return to joy faster. And so one of the things that I've been actually practicing is that very thing, you know, just intentionally looking at the people I come in contact with and meaning it when I say, you know, I'm so glad to be with you, and, you know, seeing the joy, that it lights up in them and it's reciprocated and it lights up in me. It's a simple thing. It's very simple and it's very powerful. So I love that question. What about you?

[39:43] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: That is so cool. That's. That's so interesting that that does bring me joy. And I do it all. I do it all the time. So my work with young adults who are aging out of the foster care system, sometimes there is not. I mean, mostly there is nothing I can say to make their situation better, but I can be present to them. And that is such a joy and such a gift to me. I love that. I love to be able to say, I'm so glad you're here today. Thank you for coming, you know, thanks for being here, you know, so that. That does bring me joy. And then the other thing that brings me joy is nature. To be outside in the fresh air with my family. That's. That's always grounding for me and joyful. Lately it's had to be splashing around in the pool because it's too hot to do anything else.

[40:44] BRENDA HARKINS: Started to say, hey, we got some 80 degree weather coming, so this is good.

[40:48] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We, we Texans live on that. Those weather forecasts for some cooler days coming, right?

[40:57] BRENDA HARKINS: Not that we can count on them, but. Yeah, yeah. You never know what you're gonna get here. What gives you hope for the future?

[41:08] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: I. Real people and knowing that people are good and people are complicated. I have been in so many situations in life when I've needed the help of a stranger. You know, I've had car trouble a lot. People always help me. And you know, and I know that's not universally tr. I'm really lucky. But people are good and people, if they see a real human person in front of them, they will help each other. When bad things happen, we take care of each other. So that gives me hope that we can keep doing that. How about for you?

[41:50] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah, I do agree with that, that most people really, really do want to just help one another. Most people are good people. But what gives me hope also is this right here and having this conversation with you, knowing that other conversations like this are happening all over our country and the fact that I'm going to be trying to initiate more of them in our area, it. Yeah, those things give me hope because I think when there's opportunity for a safe place to do that, we're going to see some change.

[42:33] KATE FAGGELLA-LUBY: This is really important work.

[42:37] BRENDA HARKINS: Yeah. Thank you.