Bryan Clyatt and Dan Gee

[00:02] JOHN G.: My name is John G. And I am 40 years old. It's December 11, 2022, in San Antonio, Texas. My interview partner here is Bryan Clyatt and he's my longest and oldest friend.

[00:17] BRYAN CLYATT: My name is Bryan Clyatt age 41. Today's date is December 11, 2022. Location is San Antonio, Texas. My interview partner is John, aka Dan G. And once again, longest and oldest friend.

[00:36] JOHN G.: It's true.

[00:38] BRYAN CLYATT: A long time. Long time.

[00:40] JOHN G.: Long time.

[00:40] BRYAN CLYATT: So, you know, from. From nine years old to here. Would have never thunk it, but blessed, that is for sure. Yeah, but, no, I know. Whenever Emily called, I thought that this was. And one of the reasons why I decided to do it. Because it was with you.

[01:02] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[01:02] BRYAN CLYATT: And then I figured it was. It would really be a simple thing for the two of us. Like I said, I do believe that when she found out about it, she might have had a bird or somebody put a bug in her ear when they were looking for two people to interview and was like, okay, this is. There you go. Here's your two guys.

[01:22] JOHN G.: So figure it out.

[01:24] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah, yeah. We have to figure out whether it was Frank or Paula or somebody who knows. Yeah, somebody gave him the heads up on it, but no, I thought it was pretty interesting, you know, for something to be archived of just a simple conversation. I would have never imagined. Yeah, but who knows? Somebody may end up listening to it later down the road.

[01:44] JOHN G.: Yeah, you never know. You know, some. Some researcher someday may go, I wonder what. Wonder what weirdos did in the. In the. Then they'll get a chance to see that today. So, listener, beware.

[01:59] BRYAN CLYATT: That's it.

[02:00] JOHN G.: You know, one of the things that I was kind of going through the questions, and one of the things I was thinking about is when I. When I tell the story of us, like, usually it starts with west cottage.

[02:14] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[02:14] JOHN G.: You know, in this room, I always tell people, like, it's probably the most awkward way my friendship has started for me. It's probably the most awkward that a friendship has started. But I'll tell you, it was, I think, because of how that friendship started, I think, is what has just kept it going the whole time. You know, for me. I mean, you know, we're nine year old kids, had never been away from our families, really, ever. And although, you know, we were in. Although we came out of, like, really crappy situations. Like, I don't know if I told you this, but I went a couple days ago, I was picking up some medication over by where I used to live before I went to Boisville. And I was like, I'm gonna drive by the old neighborhood. Just, you know, cuz I have these rose tinted glasses of, like, I remember the trailer park and, like, man, that place is. I would never take my children there.

[03:08] BRYAN CLYATT: No, no.

[03:09] JOHN G.: It was horrific. Like, just watching and seeing, and I was like, come a long way, baby.

[03:14] BRYAN CLYATT: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that, because I've actually done that just driving back. And I think I had Riley Jaden and I think Taylor in the truck with me that day, and I wanted to show them the very first house I lived in. And all of the houses that I lived in before Boysville. I mean, they're all probably within 5 miles of each other, you know, all out there in the country. Bye. The house that you knew. Yep. You know, and so you drive 2 miles over here, and then there's another house. And then 2 miles over here, and there's another one.

[03:47] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[03:47] BRYAN CLYATT: But it all started back behind this cold storage facility called loop cold storage. And my grandma and grandpa bought the house back there. There's, like, six houses on this back dirt road that nobody would ever know is back there. Unless you live there. Right? And. And so we start driving back there, and the kids are like, where the hell are we going? And I'm like, I want to show you the very first house I lived in. And so we get back there, and, of course, it's abandoned, and it's a 100% concrete structure. And, you know, we kind of got out, and we kind of walked around a little bit, and I told them stories because there's an upstairs attic with a window, and I remember telling stories about whenever mom was gone and everything like that. And we take all the mattresses and set them outside and jump out of the upstairs window onto the mattresses because we were bad kids. I mean, well, that's awesome. Maybe not.

[04:40] JOHN G.: Let's just be real. That's awesome.

[04:42] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. And it was. It was. We. We had a triangle shaped dog house that we'd go jump our bikes over and let our bikes go flying and see if we can grab onto the monkey bars with this rickety, rickety swing set that was in the backyard. So, first time Jason broke his arm was there, you know? And I just kind of told him, you know, some of the stories about when. When we were kids and. And even walking down to the river that. That ran. That runs right there behind the house and literally having to get water sometimes.

[05:11] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[05:12] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, because I've told them stories about. About growing up, like we did dirt poor and everything. Like, that, and I was like, there's a reason why I say dirt poor. That's because you could look through the floor and see the dirt.

[05:22] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[05:22] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, I mean, literally. So. I mean, there was times where there was no water, where the water came from the river. So, you know, growing up the country poor, and then growing up the city poor.

[05:32] JOHN G.: Right.

[05:33] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, I mean, we were too. We fit together well.

[05:37] JOHN G.: We did. And although. Although it was a little different. There's so many similarities to growing up city poor.

[05:45] BRYAN CLYATT: Right.

[05:47] JOHN G.: I remember times when we would have to sneak. We'd have to jump the fence to the trailer over and use their hose water, like, get their hose and fill up a tub, and then you'd bring the tub into your house, and that was your drinking water for, like, the week until you could sneak over there and get more. And then if it was bath day, because there was just bath day, we, you know.

[06:07] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. It wasn't a daily thing.

[06:08] JOHN G.: We didn't have. We didn't. We weren't, you know.

[06:10] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[06:11] JOHN G.: We weren't wealthy enough to have, you know, enough water to take a bath every day.

[06:15] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. It wasn't bath time. It was bad.

[06:16] JOHN G.: It was bath day. So you snuck over and you got. You brought in the second bucket, and then with that second bucket in this cold water, I'll never forget, it'd be like, you know, December, January, and this water would be freezing cold. But I, you know, you had to get clean somehow. That's it. So there was that. And then probably the thing that sticks out to me the most was my parents. I mean, I was, like, seven or eight years old, and I was coming home at, like, 01:00 in the morning. Like, it was. There was no one telling me to go to school. There was no one telling me to do any of that. And I guess I didn't realize how poor we were.

[06:51] BRYAN CLYATT: Well, you never do.

[06:52] JOHN G.: And I think you have this moment where you realize really, how poor you really are and how, like, your family's dysfunctional. And you don't realize, like. Cause this is normal for you, right? Like, so you don't realize, like, how dysfunctional your family really is. I'll never forget, this was at Mary Hall elementary. And nothing against the school. Actually, there was a teacher there, Miss Janet Haigler. I'll never forget her. She. She used to roll in a Firebird. She was my first grade teacher.

[07:21] BRYAN CLYATT: Okay.

[07:22] JOHN G.: But I remember one time my parents forgot to pick me up because I was just something that happened.

[07:27] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[07:27] JOHN G.: That's what happens when you're on meth. I mean, meth will do that to you.

[07:30] BRYAN CLYATT: It does.

[07:30] JOHN G.: So you forget your children. So, um, she actually took me home one day. I'll never forget that kindness because I was just sitting out in front of the. In front of the school for hours. The sun was down at this point, but on effort. So we had this parent teacher conference, and it's funny now, it was definitely not funny in the moment, but we had this parent teacher conference, and we were going through, you know, showing off the classroom, and my parents couldn't make it. Well, my dad was a long haul truck driver, so he just wasn't there. And my mom was just too strung out. Like, she couldn't go, so she convinced my aunt and uncle to go, who, you know, if you thought my mom was, like, strung out, these two were, like, way worse. And so they came with me to this thing, and I'll never forget it. We're sitting there, and the teacher's trying to talk about what we're learning in math, and I want. I want to show my aunt and uncle these cubes we're learning to count with, right? And they get into this, like, full blown fight in the middle.

[08:30] BRYAN CLYATT: Hey, good times. Yeah.

[08:32] JOHN G.: It was something in the middle of this classroom, and I don't know. For me, that was the moment where I was like, I'm not like these other kids. Like, something. Is something wrong? Like, I was trying, like, realizing, like, wow. And then I would start to realize, you know, like, you know, all these kids talk about going out to Seaworld. Like, I've never been to Seaworld. What is Seaworld?

[08:54] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[08:54] JOHN G.: You know, like, what is this mythical place?

[08:56] BRYAN CLYATT: Those were an option.

[08:57] JOHN G.: Seaweed. Those absolutely were an option. So you translate that to now, right? And, like, going through Boisville and actually getting structure, which I hated. Right?

[09:08] BRYAN CLYATT: We, you know.

[09:09] JOHN G.: You know, we bucked that system. But to go. To go from there to here. And, like, a couple days ago, Amelia is in, like, looking at the pantry, and she's like, dad, we don't have anything to eat. And, like, immediately, I got angry, right? But I, you know, I had to remember, like, this kid just doesn't know. She knows no other life besides this one where she has her own room and her own bathroom and, you know, all this other stuff.

[09:36] BRYAN CLYATT: Hot water always works.

[09:37] JOHN G.: The hot water always works. And we're never going. We don't even have a hose, right? Like, we're never taking people's water and just realizing, like, man, we've come a long way.

[09:48] BRYAN CLYATT: That's what I always say, and that's one of the things that we were discussing the other day that I was telling you about, and that's one of the things that I preach to my kids, is, like I've said, generational improvement. You know, I'm a firm believer that you should be able to look back at a family and see improvements, uh, generationally, um, whether that be financially, whether that be spiritually. Um, there's. Every parent should strive for their child to have it easier, to have it better, um, you know, then, than what they grew up with.

[10:20] JOHN G.: Right.

[10:20] BRYAN CLYATT: Um, you know, my mom was. If I thought I was dirt poor, uh, listening to stories from my mom, and, oh, yeah, when she was coming up in West Virginia, I mean, we had it nice, you know, you had a roof, we had a front door.

[10:36] JOHN G.: Right.

[10:36] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, you had a door. Yeah, there was a door. I mean, there was more than just three rooms to the whole house, right. You know, we had five.

[10:44] JOHN G.: Right?

[10:44] BRYAN CLYATT: So generational improvement. You know, my mom worked hard for what little we had, you know? But then she forced, and she. She really, really, really instilled in us a a good work ethic, you know? And so I look at where I'm at in comparison to where my mom was at this age, and by far, you know, me, my brother, my sister, you know, we're all leaps and bounds ahead, right? And then I look at my kids, and I look back at their age, you know?

[11:16] JOHN G.: Right.

[11:17] BRYAN CLYATT: CJ went into the air force, wasn't for him. Got out. You know, he knows how to weld trying to figure stuff out right now. You know, he's 25 years old. He's a 25 year old boy, is what I call him. He's a boy, man. Yeah. You know? Yes, he's an adult, but. But he really is still trying to figure out where. Where he needs to be, you know? And then you got someone like Cameron, just a completely different child than what CJ is, and done. Gone to school. She's a dental assistant, just had a baby. You know, her and her significant other, he has a very good job in the oil field, and they're. They're figuring out their path, you know, starting a young family. And then Taylor and Riley, both looking to go to school. Riley graduates at the end of this year. I know.

[12:05] JOHN G.: We're getting old, man.

[12:06] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. You know, and she's gung ho about getting into nursing program during the summertime, not even taking the summer off, right. Just going straight from graduation into. Into the nursing program during the summer. That's a big change from us, you know, so. But they have these availabilities and they have these options because of the life that me and their mom, you know, has scratched our way through. And a lot of that is something that my mom taught me. A lot of that is what Derek and Roslyn taught me, or people like Ned and Waylon and those kind of figures. It was instilled in us.

[12:43] JOHN G.: Right.

[12:44] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, and before we went to Boysville, it really wasn't. My mom believed in us working hard. I mean, the house was always clean, as clean is what you could get it.

[12:54] JOHN G.: Sure.

[12:54] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, before she came home. But. But when it actually came to, I can't say if I was a kid that I would have ever thought that I would be. Until Boysville and until I grew, I could never say that I would have imagined being in the position I am now.

[13:11] JOHN G.: Yeah. I think, I think Boisville is like, created this, like, equalizer, right? Where it actually, what it, at least what it did for me was it kind of equal. It helped equalize a playing field for me. I never forget this one time. I don't know, I was upset about something. I think a teacher, you think I wouldn't be upset about this. But this math teacher, Mister Glower, I'll know. Yeah. I'm name dropping people here on the.

[13:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Get them.

[13:35] JOHN G.: Yeah. But I think, I think he meant well with what he said, but I did not take it that way. So, you know, I've always struggled with math. It's always been a struggle of mine. Right. And so I remember going up to him taking this test. I know if I don't pass this test, I'm gonna fail. And so I just went up to him and I said, you know, I'm struggling with this test. I don't know. Can you help me? Can you help me? Help me? And I think on the third time, he, like, touched my hand and he said, look, we don't expect much out of kids like you. Like, it's, it's fine. You're gonna pass. Go sit down and take the test. Now, I think what he meant was, is I know you're in a disadvantaged position. You didn't get some of the things that these other kids got. I'm gonna help you. I'm not gonna let you fail. Yeah, right. But that's not how I took it. No, how I took it was, why am I different from these other kids?

[14:23] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[14:23] JOHN G.: Right. I can fail just like them. Right? Like. But I think that the Boisville experience, what it did was it equaled the playing field where there had been deficiencies from my. Had I stayed in my previous environment. Right. So I'm confident I would not have a PhD if I. If I would have stayed in my previous environment. Right.

[14:44] BRYAN CLYATT: There's not a whole lot of them running around Austin highway, right?

[14:47] JOHN G.: No, no. Neither on Marbach or southwest military drive.

[14:52] BRYAN CLYATT: No, there's not a whole lot of PhDs.

[14:53] JOHN G.: Not a ton of PhDs running around. I checked. I went and looked. Not a lot. Right.

[14:56] BRYAN CLYATT: So.

[14:58] JOHN G.: But what it did was, is it provided opportunities that were not there previously that were. That were able to kind of showcase or help. Like, I would have never had the record to join the military. I would have. The Navy would have never taken me if I had a state. Because by the time I was nine, I was already in a gang. I had already been initiated. And I was sitting on the corner making. I mean, we're talking 92. I was making $450 a day to just sit there and be the little white kid that told the. Told the lama if the coming.

[15:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[15:34] JOHN G.: Right. And they would just pay and that's how we made rent. Right. So, you know, to go from that, because I was. I was already well down a path. Right. And to get removed from that situation, it's a cycle breaker.

[15:47] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[15:48] JOHN G.: Right. And now, you know what I was doing at nine, you know, out till 02:00 in the morning making money to what my current nine year old does, which is annoying me with their minecraft and their anime. Right.

[16:01] BRYAN CLYATT: Leaps and bounds. Different.

[16:02] JOHN G.: It's very, very different, which is healthy. That's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. But to me, that's kind of what Boiswell did around me is it just kind of equalized a playing field for me. And the other thing it did, which was very helpful for me, is it made me culturally, like, understand that there's people live different. Right. Because we were in a children. So, like, I would have never grown up. I wouldn't had a black dad. I wouldn't had a mexican mom. Right?

[16:32] BRYAN CLYATT: Like, no, wouldn't.

[16:34] JOHN G.: Learning other cultures, like, there's a whole world out here. There's a whole wide world. I think that helped too. That really helped too.

[16:41] BRYAN CLYATT: See, that's funny that because, you know, stepping back and thinking about it, you know, we both got that. That cultural diversity.

[16:48] JOHN G.: We did.

[16:48] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, you had Frank and Rosa, I had Derek and Rosalind. And. And I don't think that you can get more family than what we were accepted into theirs.

[17:00] JOHN G.: Right.

[17:01] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, like with Jordan, other than Derek and Rosalind. I was the first person to hold him when he was born, right? Not Latanya, not Gamma, not pappy. Little old white Bryan was. We just had a family reunion probably about six months ago. Jordan set up a family reunion, and I tease him and I laugh about it, and I was like, jordan, am I gonna be the only white person there? He was like, no, there'll be about two or three other ones. You know, he was like, you know, uncle Gerald likes white women. And I'm like, I'm like, I love uncle Gerald. He's great, you know? But, I mean, as soon as I showed up, I mean, it was. It was hugs and handshakes from everyone, you know? I mean, and it's the same thing whenever, you know, you go over to Frank and Rosas and to imagine, because growing up out in the country, guess what? You know, that wasn't. That wasn't the way that it was.

[17:53] JOHN G.: No.

[17:54] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, especially, like, where I grew up, that definitely wasn't the way that it was.

[17:57] JOHN G.: Definitely not.

[17:58] BRYAN CLYATT: And so a place like boysville to really open the eyes of two really blind, you know, kids. Yeah. And you lived with Frank and Rosa for the vast majority of the time that you were there?

[18:11] JOHN G.: Most of the time.

[18:11] BRYAN CLYATT: And I lived with Derek and Rosalind for all but six months out of ten years.

[18:16] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[18:17] BRYAN CLYATT: And so it really, really was a great learning lesson when it came to that, because, I mean, like you said, it would have just never happened where I was. You know, I went to a school wherever their harmony elementary. At that point, there were zero black students.

[18:37] JOHN G.: Right.

[18:38] BRYAN CLYATT: And there was probably only 15 Hispanic.

[18:42] JOHN G.: Right.

[18:42] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, I mean, there just wasn't. Right. And so, I mean, there was a lot of things that Boisville's done that I really, really look back and I'm grateful for. You know, being able to see the other kids and. And being able to see as bad as what I thought it was, seeing some of the other stories, seeing some of the other struggles, you know, like with the Robles, knowing that Andrea was 14 years old, working a full time job for two years to try to put food on the table for her five younger siblings.

[19:21] JOHN G.: Right.

[19:22] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, and then, you know, some of these other aspects that I got to see and I really got to pay attention to in the last couple years that I was there, because before that, I was just a kid.

[19:32] JOHN G.: I didn't care, of course.

[19:34] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, all I cared about was the gym and the swimming pool and anything else I got to do, you know? But the last couple years, I was there I really got to actually talk to some people, and it really actually mattered, you know, what they were going through or what they had gone through, you know, because I looked back in my life, and I was like, wow, you know, I had it tough. And then now I think about it, and I look back, and I'm like, okay, we were broke. Don't get me wrong. We had some wish sandwiches every now and again. Wish we had something other than bread.

[20:05] JOHN G.: Something in his bread.

[20:05] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. You know, but I never had to go to work.

[20:09] JOHN G.: Right.

[20:10] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, I mean, right?

[20:12] JOHN G.: It's one thing to be poor. It's another thing to be poor and abused.

[20:15] BRYAN CLYATT: That's it. That's it. And I never had to worry about that.

[20:17] JOHN G.: We were poor, but nobody ever hurt me.

[20:19] BRYAN CLYATT: No, no, nobody ever hurt me except.

[20:21] JOHN G.: My stomach, because we weren't eating.

[20:22] BRYAN CLYATT: But other than that, that's what school was for.

[20:24] JOHN G.: Exactly.

[20:24] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, I got to eat breakfast and lunch at school.

[20:26] JOHN G.: That's true.

[20:26] BRYAN CLYATT: And my mom counted on that.

[20:28] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[20:29] BRYAN CLYATT: Was for us to be able to eat breakfast and lunch at school.

[20:31] JOHN G.: That's right.

[20:31] BRYAN CLYATT: So that way, I mean, all she had to do was provide dinner.

[20:34] JOHN G.: Right.

[20:34] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, and then on the weekends, provide food. So, I mean, that was important. We didn't miss school for the simple fact. Guess what? We got two meals. We hungry.

[20:42] JOHN G.: And, you know, I didn't even realize. I didn't realize how fortunate the upbringing. Cause, you know, when you're in Boisville, you're like, oh, I hate this place. This place.

[20:49] BRYAN CLYATT: Oh, it's so terrible.

[20:50] JOHN G.: I'm so mistreated. I'm so alone, right? Like, this. This whole, like, woe is me attitude. But once I got out and actually, it was joining the Navy that I started to realize, like, I really did not have it that bad.

[21:02] BRYAN CLYATT: No.

[21:03] JOHN G.: Right? Like, I actually, you know, I would. Like, we had this guy from New Mexico. The first time he'd ever had running electricity was when he was in boot camp. Yeah, in the barracks. Right. He. He did not. He did not know how to operate a light switch. I mean, they were that poor.

[21:19] BRYAN CLYATT: It happens.

[21:19] JOHN G.: Um, and. But, you know, they were. They were happy. He wasn't an abused kid, but. Right. It was just a different. A different. Different method of poor. Right.

[21:26] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[21:27] JOHN G.: Um, and then realizing, like, what had actually been instilled in me while I was at the home. Right. So, like, there's this one. So we're on deployment. We're underway on the submarine. It's. We've been out for probably 50 days at this point. Right. And I'm standing watch, and this kid comes in, younger guy comes in, and he's like, hey, I don't know how to operate the washing machine because it is difficult. It's not a normal washing machine. Right. There's other things you gotta do. And he's like, I don't know how to operate it. Can you help me after watch? I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. And he starts to walk away, and it kind of clicks in my head. I'm like, stop. Come here. It's been 50 days.

[22:07] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. How do you need help operating the washing seat?

[22:11] JOHN G.: And, like, he's holding, he's holding this laundry bag and our laundry bag. I mean, there's no room on a submarine. Laundry bag is, like, this big. The expectation is that you do laundry once a week, right?

[22:19] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[22:20] JOHN G.: Because really, the only thing you're doing, socks, underwear, undershirt, and then coveralls.

[22:27] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[22:27] JOHN G.: Right? Like, those are the only things you're washing. And maybe some workout clothes. That's it. So, you know.

[22:33] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[22:34] JOHN G.: And it's, like, half full, and I'm.

[22:36] BRYAN CLYATT: Like, um, what the hell you been wearing?

[22:38] JOHN G.: Yeah, what, what are you doing? He's like, this is all my laundry. What do you mean this is all your laundry? He's like, yeah. I thought, I thought, because I didn't want to go on deployment, I thought that if I showed up to the boat without clothes, they wouldn't make me go. Right?

[22:56] BRYAN CLYATT: Little did he know.

[22:58] JOHN G.: Well, friend, the Navy has spent a lot of money training you to do this job. You're going to see. Right? They don't care.

[23:04] BRYAN CLYATT: No. You got one pair of socks or.

[23:06] JOHN G.: Two, you go stark naked if you want, but you're going, this is happening. And I guess it clicked in me, and it's a really, it's a really odd thing, a really odd situation for it to click, but I was like, I learned early on. I learned in Boisville, right? If you say you're gonna do something, you do it. Like, it wasn't even a thought in my mind to try to get out of deployment because I said I would do it, right? Like, I, if you, if you say you're gonna do it, you do it. And so I did it. And the fact that he was even thinking of ways to get out of deployment, I didn't even realize that was an option.

[23:36] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[23:36] JOHN G.: Right. Or the fact that he didn't know how to do his laundry. Right. Like, I knew how to do laundry. I had, you know, as I progressed in my career and I began to be in charge of people, you know, we would get their credit card bills.

[23:48] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[23:49] JOHN G.: Right? Cause if they don't. Cause pro tip for the Navy, if someone in the military owes you money, you just go to their commander.

[23:56] BRYAN CLYATT: That's it.

[23:56] JOHN G.: Because the commander can just take their money.

[23:58] BRYAN CLYATT: That's it.

[23:58] JOHN G.: They don't have to ask.

[23:59] BRYAN CLYATT: You're not allowed to be in debt.

[24:00] JOHN G.: Nope, not like that. Right? And so this one guy, you know, we get this bill from this kid, and it's like, a $45,000 credit card bill. This is an e two. I mean, he's probably 20 years old.

[24:10] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[24:11] JOHN G.: And so I'm like, what is this? I'm like, no, these people are playing him. They're playing him. We're gonna, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be the hero, right? We're gonna fix this. I'm gonna fix this. And so I set him down, and here's what actually happened. He did not know that you had to pay a credit card.

[24:28] BRYAN CLYATT: He just thought, it's free money. Huh?

[24:29] JOHN G.: He thought the bank was just giving him money. And in my mind, I'm like, well, why would you think that? And he's like, well, I think, is this your first credit card? He's like, no, I had a credit card when I was a kid. I was like, well, how did you pay that? He's like, I never paid it. He didn't.

[24:43] BRYAN CLYATT: Dad.

[24:44] JOHN G.: He didn't realize mom and dad were paying it. So, yeah, so there's the. There's the. The things I learned from being poor, right? And then there's some other things that I learned from growing up in Boisville, right? Like, this kid did not know how money worked because it had all been done for him, right? And so now he's in this position where mom and dad aren't paying this bill. And so, like, I had to explain to him, like, he didn't know what a budget was. Like, I literally had to write a budget for him. This is how you get food. This is how, you know, actually ended up being a really great kid, a great sailor.

[25:19] BRYAN CLYATT: Just naive.

[25:20] JOHN G.: But yikes, man. And it's like, I learned. We learned even though we hated doing it. Remember, we used to go up to the gym and do the stupid. This is how you balance a checkbook in the summertime. Like, this is stupid.

[25:31] BRYAN CLYATT: It's terrible.

[25:33] JOHN G.: Not stupid.

[25:34] BRYAN CLYATT: No. Apparently, in hindsight, you know, and that was one of the things I, you know, talking about stuff like that, that was one of the things that I know that they really picked up on after I left because that was, I believe one of the things that caused a little bit of a riff when I was leaving was I told them, I was like, look, you know, y'all want to know what. What can be done different? What can be done better? Is there. There needs to be more of an independent living. There needs to be more of a transition, you know, not just because I'm very thankful for everything that Boisville did and for them, you know, really taking care of, you know, hundreds and hundreds of kids. But the way that it was for a long time, there was no transitional living. There was no knowledge. It was okay. Now, you're 18. We've been hovering over top of you. You've been under our thumbs. Now I'm going to go ahead and shoot you out there to college because we're going to go ahead and help you pay for that. And guess what? College was a blast for a year.

[26:39] JOHN G.: Yeah. First six months were awesome.

[26:41] BRYAN CLYATT: Don't know how. Don't know how class was, but I know I had fun at Texas Tech.

[26:45] JOHN G.: But college was amazing.

[26:46] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. I never would have imagined I'd had that much fun in Lubbock. But the college experience was. It was fun. Work was simple because I just didn't go to class.

[26:57] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[26:58] BRYAN CLYATT: But I think that was part of the whole. The whole lack of really, the transitional living thing. And I think they really picked up on that more. Yeah. When a couple of the people in front of us, like Nick and Carla.

[27:11] JOHN G.: Right.

[27:11] BRYAN CLYATT: And then you had somebody like myself, and there was a lot of failed attempts. Right.

[27:17] JOHN G.: Right.

[27:17] BRYAN CLYATT: At the. At the college experience coming straight out of Boisville. And I noticed over the next couple years that they started the independent living program. People were expected to have jobs. You were expected. Really kind of take care of yourself, pay rent with the oversight of somebody next door.

[27:35] JOHN G.: Right.

[27:35] BRYAN CLYATT: You know, they use those apartments down there by the barns as their independent living program. And. And I was really, really glad to see something like that. Yeah. Because of the. Like I said, because me and Nick were close still, after. After Nick left and when I left, and Carla, I've always kept track of her. Sure. You know, and like with Nick, I think it took him seven years to get his degree. I think it took Carla nine, you know, four year degrees. Not supposed to take nine.

[28:03] JOHN G.: So again, I'm not good at math. However.

[28:06] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. However, I do believe that we're paying for some extra years there.

[28:11] JOHN G.: Four does not equal nine. I do know that.

[28:12] BRYAN CLYATT: No, so. But no, that. And like I said afterwards, the. The whole independent process and and the whole letting, especially, I think, with y'all's year, y'all was really the first one that. That kind of kicked that off, and. And it seemed to have worked real good because there seemed to be some success stories.

[28:33] JOHN G.: Yeah. And what I think the great thing about this. And now. So now that. Now that I sit on the board and I can look back at Boise and I look at it from a. From a governance area. Right. Or be able to look at it in an overview, is. I really appreciate the great lengths they've gone to to transition people out.

[28:50] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[28:51] JOHN G.: Because, I mean, at my graduation dinner, I got luggage for a present, and they were like, you know, and I. And I learned. I learned a very valuable lesson from the Brian's and the Knicks and the Carla's. And I was like. And although they were pushing really hard, they're like, you got accepted. To a and M. You got accepted. You gotta go. You gotta go. You gotta go, man. I was like, I'm not gonna make it.

[29:10] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[29:11] JOHN G.: Like, if. If Carla can't concentrate and get it done, I ain't gonna make it. Like, I'm not ready. I'm wild. Like, I knew I was not ready to go to college, and so I opted to enlist in the Navy. And I know that that upset some people, right. Because they were like, you should have been an officer. You should have. You know, you should have done this. But looking back, because, you know, Boiswood, at the time, did not have independent living.

[29:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[29:34] JOHN G.: My first four years in the Navy became independent living.

[29:37] BRYAN CLYATT: Absolutely right.

[29:38] JOHN G.: Under the monitoring of, you know, a commander or a chief or, you know, someone was in charge of me.

[29:42] BRYAN CLYATT: So you had that.

[29:43] JOHN G.: That wouldn't let me fail. Right?

[29:44] BRYAN CLYATT: I had Ron.

[29:45] JOHN G.: Yeah. That's bad. That's not good.

[29:48] BRYAN CLYATT: No.

[29:49] JOHN G.: So. So, you know, for. For me. So I had that. And, you know, finally I went, you know, finally I took it. Took. And actually, once I started school, it took me two and a half years to get my undergrad. And then I found out I absolutely love school. Like, I'm addicted to it. And so I did all this schooling, right? And then when I got out, I guess, you know, I didn't need to go back to school, but I was like, you know what? I got accepted to a and m like, 20 years ago. Like, I just. I want to be an aggie, and.

[30:22] BRYAN CLYATT: So I can't accept that. I cannot accept that.

[30:25] JOHN G.: Nobody's perfect. Okay? Hey, but not accept that. I was like, I want. You know, I want. I want what I. What I, you know, quote unquote, should have had.

[30:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[30:34] JOHN G.: And so now I'm, you know, and I'll be done in a year, and, you know, I'll, I'll be an aggie. Right. Even though it's, you know, it's not, it's not all that, but terrible. I like how you went into the mic. You leaned into that terrible a little too much. I don't know. So, but, yeah, the fact that Boisville, and what I really like, what Boisville has done now is they've trans, just transitioned out of college is the only way, this is the only way to be successful. Now, to be fair to Boisville, in the, you know, Bois was an 80 year old organization in the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties, that college really did mean success. That was how you measured success. But I think in the nineties and in the two thousands, and now success can be measured in a lot of different ways. Me and you make similar amounts of money.

[31:20] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes.

[31:20] JOHN G.: You don't have a college degree. I have tons of them, but we make the same amount of money, so, but there are trade schools, welding schools, all these other opportunities. You want to be a barber. And then what does success actually mean?

[31:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah.

[31:35] JOHN G.: Right. To me, success doesn't mean college graduate. To me, success means my children don't have to steal water from a neighbor.

[31:45] BRYAN CLYATT: Absolutely right.

[31:46] JOHN G.: To me, that's success. My children, I knew I was not prepared to go to college. When I graduated high school, my oldest went, graduated. Right. So that, to me, that, that is how Boise OSHA should, should measure its success.

[32:01] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. Success is not a piece of paper on the wall. No, absolutely not. I know plenty of people with college degrees that I make twice as much money as this fact. I know plenty of people with college degrees that are unemployed at the moment. Mm hmm. You know that your paycheck or your bank account doesn't measure success. No. Or to me, it shouldn't.

[32:23] JOHN G.: Right.

[32:23] BRYAN CLYATT: There's a lot of people out there in this world that is, the whole scale is your bank account, and that's just not it for me. And I think a lot of that is, like I said, growing up poor, then growing up at Boysville, and, you know, it just doesn't make a difference. I don't care. Are you a good person? You know, I know plenty of rich people that are terrible people. You know, and I know plenty of poor people that are terrible people.

[32:51] JOHN G.: Right.

[32:51] BRYAN CLYATT: There, there's good and bad in everything, you know, so. But on another note, because I think we're running short on time, you know what I saw. What did you say that reminded me of? It actually wasn't our very first Christmas shopping trip. It was actually the same year. But the Wheeler family, they just. They. Of course, they're still doing their. Their annual shopping trip.

[33:15] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[33:15] BRYAN CLYATT: And I was thinking back, and I was like, you know, I remember. I don't know if you remember the first time we went. It was to. I think it was Ingram park mall that first year. Yep. And we were given. We watched, like, Aladdin or the Lion King. And then we went shopping. Yep. Do you remember what we spent our. I think we got, like, $100.

[33:35] JOHN G.: We got $150.

[33:36] BRYAN CLYATT: Do you remember what we spent it all on? I'll give you a hint.

[33:39] JOHN G.: Okay.

[33:40] BRYAN CLYATT: Remember those bookshelves that were above our bed? We lined our. What? We bought up on that. On that bottom shelf. I think we had to use some of the top shelf.

[33:50] JOHN G.: Oh, man. And we don't have. I don't have any of them anymore.

[33:53] BRYAN CLYATT: No, you don't. You don't have any of them. Neither do I. But we went and, I mean, we spent 100, and back then, I mean, you're talking about. We are nice. So 30 years ago, and we got $150.

[34:05] JOHN G.: Right.

[34:05] BRYAN CLYATT: And we spent all of it on one. On one thing. Multiples of one thing. Baseball caps.

[34:13] JOHN G.: Yes. We had, like, 600 baseball caps from teams we didn't even know about. Right. Who are the Colorado Rockies? I don't know where that is.

[34:21] BRYAN CLYATT: No, no. We spent a collective $300. We. We had some food.

[34:26] JOHN G.: We did. We did eat at the food court kings.

[34:29] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes. We dined like royalty that day. And we bought $140 worth of baseball captain. And then I remember that when we did the Wheeler shopping trip at North Star mall, I remember them telling us that we were not allowed to buy baseball caps on that one.

[34:50] JOHN G.: Yeah. The very next one. They were real clear.

[34:52] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. Mister and Miss J. Were really clear that no more baseball caps that were needed to be purchased.

[34:58] JOHN G.: So many baseball caps.

[35:00] BRYAN CLYATT: But, no, I seen that picture of them, you know, doing their. Their annual thing, and. And I was like, that is really neat that it's like the fourth generation. They've been doing it for, like, 50 years.

[35:10] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[35:12] BRYAN CLYATT: And it's like the fourth generation of family that's doing it. And I was like, you know what? That reminds me. And I remember going and watching the movie and having a drink and the popcorn, and then we came out, and they handed us this envelope, and I was like, I've never had $150 handed to me that I could just spend on anything.

[35:29] JOHN G.: Right.

[35:29] BRYAN CLYATT: I'm nine years old. I'm about to go hog wild.

[35:32] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[35:32] BRYAN CLYATT: And then I did on baseball caps.

[35:34] JOHN G.: Yeah, we went to lids, and that was locker.

[35:37] BRYAN CLYATT: You name it. I mean, anywhere that had hats. I mean, we had a hat for every occasion, you know, and we just thought that we had done something with our 25 hats, and, I mean, I don't have a single one of them.

[35:50] JOHN G.: Not a one of those hats.

[35:53] BRYAN CLYATT: But I'm still very fond of hats. They're hanging all over my bedroom. I got some hanging on the dresser, some hanging on the bed. Post. Yeah, I've got four in my truck.

[36:02] JOHN G.: You know, so, yeah, I still have them, but they're all in my office, because Jamie's been very clear. There will be none of that in the. In our bedroom.

[36:10] BRYAN CLYATT: Jamie's just mean like that.

[36:11] JOHN G.: Sometimes she is kind of mean. I didn't. I didn't say that.

[36:14] BRYAN CLYATT: No, we. We both got. We both got good wives. We do that keep us in line. It's just coincidence. I think, that they're both really short, because I'm a fan. Firm belief that short people are evil.

[36:29] JOHN G.: Well, short people are. That they get. I think they get angry quicker, and they don't tolerate as much because I think they've had to tolerate it most of their life. I got a whole study on this, if you ever want to. Like, I've really nerded out on this.

[36:39] BRYAN CLYATT: So my studies a lot simpler. Hold on real quick, and I'll let you get back. They're closer to hell. Okay, so the evil gets to them faster.

[36:49] JOHN G.: But, no, I think you summed it up succinctly. I think that was good.

[36:54] BRYAN CLYATT: That's what I tell Dion.

[36:55] JOHN G.: You should go in a journal.

[36:56] BRYAN CLYATT: You're closer to hell.

[36:57] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[36:58] BRYAN CLYATT: So it just gets to you quicker.

[37:00] JOHN G.: Yeah. No, and I think it's just because they've had to put up with so much for so long that by the time they get to us, they are well trained to not tolerate any B's. And so anytime I try to come in there with that b's, I just get eaten alive.

[37:11] BRYAN CLYATT: Oh, yeah. She just tells me, shut up.

[37:13] JOHN G.: Yep.

[37:14] BRYAN CLYATT: So I'm just like, yes, ma'am. Okay. You know? Or like, today, I told her that. I was like, hey, you know, after this, because we're supposed to be meeting my mom and buster for dinner over at Longhorn, and I was like, I'll just stay in town. She was like, no, because you spend money when you stay in town.

[37:31] JOHN G.: She did.

[37:31] BRYAN CLYATT: I was like, what's wrong with me spending money when I stay in town, maybe I need something. And then I go into the closet, and I pull out this flannel, and she's like, where'd that come from? And I'm like, oh, I bought it a couple weekends ago while you were in Dallas, but she fails to remember that she just went to Dallas for a girls weekend.

[37:49] JOHN G.: Ah, there it is.

[37:50] BRYAN CLYATT: And went to the casino.

[37:51] JOHN G.: That's different, Bryan Yes, that's different.

[37:53] BRYAN CLYATT: And if you talk to anybody else, the real person that spends money in that house is not this guy.

[37:59] JOHN G.: Well, I wish I could say that that is summarily false. In my house, I spend all the money.

[38:04] BRYAN CLYATT: Well, see, I can see that.

[38:06] JOHN G.: Yeah.

[38:06] BRYAN CLYATT: Jamie just doesn't strike me as a money spender. No, she's definitely not, you know, so. Yeah, but y'all figure any more out about Romania?

[38:16] JOHN G.: Yeah, we just got to pay for it. And she's going, yeah.

[38:20] BRYAN CLYATT: Different to your piggy bank.

[38:21] JOHN G.: Yeah, well, it's happening.

[38:22] BRYAN CLYATT: You got a 401K, I'm sure.

[38:24] JOHN G.: Allegedly.

[38:25] BRYAN CLYATT: Well, it's somewhere, right?

[38:26] JOHN G.: That's right.

[38:27] BRYAN CLYATT: You can. You can loan against that. Just. You came back. You can know, you know, but that's. I was telling. I was telling Dion about it, and she was like, I want to go to Romania. And I was like, well, you're not in that class, you know.

[38:40] JOHN G.: Wrong.

[38:41] BRYAN CLYATT: I was like, what you want to do is you want to go back to work. Yeah. You know, I didn't want to make money. I didn't pay for that nursing degree for you to stay at home or.

[38:50] JOHN G.: Go to Romania for five weeks.

[38:51] BRYAN CLYATT: Yes, yes. So, no, she. She actually just got a job at Samsie. Nice. So she was looking for something where she didn't really have to travel, because we're moving down to Rockport here after Roda graduates.

[39:04] JOHN G.: Yep.

[39:05] BRYAN CLYATT: And so she's like, you know, for $30 an hour, I'm gonna go work at the base, and I'm like, perfect. Sounds great.

[39:11] JOHN G.: Perfect.

[39:12] BRYAN CLYATT: So. But that's. Yeah, that's. That's. That's about it. We're getting told to.

[39:16] JOHN G.: Yeah. Well, thanks.

[39:17] BRYAN CLYATT: Roll it on up.

[39:18] JOHN G.: That's right. Thanks for. Thanks for hanging out today.

[39:20] BRYAN CLYATT: Hey, I enjoyed it greatly, you know? So we got to talk about a couple things, and we even threw boys name in there once or twice, so they should be happy about something.

[39:28] JOHN G.: Sometimes over the bus. Under the bus.

[39:30] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. I throw them both ways.

[39:32] JOHN G.: That's right. That's right. So, you know, opportunity around here.

[39:34] BRYAN CLYATT: Yeah. Nothing's ever 100% good. That's right. Even flowers make you sneeze. That's true, but that's about it. On my half.

[39:43] JOHN G.: All right.

[39:46] BRYAN CLYATT: Bye.