C. "Mondello" Browner and Aiden Browner

[00:04] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Hello, Storycorps. My name is Mandela Browner. I'm age 60. Proud of it. Today's date, I've been told, is March 23, 2024. Location, the village of Harlem, right, part of Covent Avenue Baptist Church. One of their buildings. And the name of the interview partner is Aidan Browner. I had to think because I always mix him up with his brother when I get tired. So, Aidan Browner, he's my son, and that's it. Yeah.

[00:38] AIDAN BROWNER: Hello, my name is Aidan Browner. I'm age 19. Today is the 23 March 2024, and we're recording in 348, convent of Convent Avenue Baptist church. My interview partner is C. Mandela Browner, and he is my father. Okay, so the first question I'd like to ask is, how did the church influence my grandmother Gigi?

[01:04] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay, so the main thing is, I see it as not necessarily this church, but the fact that, you know, we come from South Boston, Virginia, and there's the. Oh, my goodness, I'm having a brain fart of. I'll think of it later. But there's a small Baptist church, wooden floors. People start singing.

[01:28] AIDAN BROWNER: I've been there.

[01:29] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Absolutely. And so just going up there. Dan River Baptist. Dan River Baptist church. I just remember having all these memories of going home, going to where my mother grew up, going where all of her brothers and sisters grew up, and then just here. There was no way that she was not going to go to church. My first church was down the hill.

[02:00] AIDAN BROWNER: Union Baptist.

[02:01] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Union Baptist, exactly. I remember getting to trouble, looking at the girl behind me in the next row and mom saying, you can't do that. You can't do that. And then we came here when I was around, I guess around seven years old, and my mom was already active in this church a decade or so before she was a Cub scout leader. Even though she was a single woman, she was involved with children. And obviously later on, I think after that, she became a schoolteacher before I was born, though. And so there was always a heavy tradition of the Jennings, that sort of maiden name, obviously, the Jennings, always being heavily involved with church. My grandmother would make her children go up there to the pulpit, recite verses, talk all sorts, say scripture. Singh, as you know, a lot of your cousins, whenever there's a gathering, they sing gospel music. So church was a heavy, heavy influence, and public speaking had a lot to do, which is why I, in particular, push you and your siblings to always, you know, go up there. Go up there. Go up there.

[03:24] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah. I remember in her obituary, she talked a lot about how she was a teacher how she was a dietitian and how many activities she did in the church, right?

[03:33] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yes, absolutely.

[03:34] AIDAN BROWNER: She was very, very proud of that. And she wrote her own obituary, too. Yeah, more impressive.

[03:39] C. MANDELA BROWNER: That was totally her style.

[03:42] AIDAN BROWNER: It was better than that poem she wrote, right?

[03:45] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah. So, yeah, you mentioned a poem. So we were at family gathering, and Gigi, you know, that's mom's nickname that she came up with when you were born. And that was funny, just seeing all the grandparents get together and decide what their names would be. Gigi, pop pop, nana, etcetera. So what happens at this particular family gathering? Mom decided to write a poem stolen. The virtues of family life and how good it was to have family and whatnot. And she read it, and knowing that I spent a lot of time writing poems and doing poetry because I used to do, like, poetry slams, even though I wasn't a slam poet. She was like, oh, so how do I do? And I had to. I was trying to be diplomatic because it was horrible. It was awful. There was no rhyme scheme. You know, she would go, duh duh duh duh duh duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh duh duh. You know, just off. Things didn't rhyme when, you know, not that you have to rhyme, but if you go wrong, have a rhythm. And so I was like, well, you know, you said what you had to say. I was trying to be diplomatic. And they just said, oh, I worked so hard on it. I was like, oh, really? And she said, you know, I spent ten minutes writing this, and I was like, oh, you know, that just went through my heart. Cause I will work on the same thing for months. So what did you say to your mom, who's like, yeah, I can do it, too. So that was ouch. Yeah, yeah, ouch.

[05:40] AIDAN BROWNER: Like, you didn't seem the happiest when you're looking at our cousins, like, self published books. So I had heard stuff like that.

[05:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Oh, I don't want getting to that.

[05:48] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay. Yeah, we don't want hurt any feelings. We don't want hurting feelings. But.

[05:54] C. MANDELA BROWNER: But I. One thing I can definitely say, I admire the plunk to, you know, you have a voice, you have an opinion. Get it out there. I mean, it makes sense because, you know, nowadays we live in. Every other person has a podcast or a blog or something.

[06:09] AIDAN BROWNER: So.

[06:09] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So that's just part of their version of that tradition, I guess.

[06:14] AIDAN BROWNER: So what got you into poetry in the first place? Because I'm not sure if you started before or after college.

[06:21] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I started towards the end of college. So I've been involved with music for many years, like, you know, from age six on. And I thought that I was going to do stuff with music when in college, I thought at the very least be a music therapist. I went to college sinking. I would do some music composition. I think Aaron Copeland was at my school, Penn. And I never did anything with music, but I always had a creative streak. So one reason why I did poetry is that I could do it and get done.

[07:00] AIDAN BROWNER: What does that really mean?

[07:02] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Well, versus a novel. Like, novels are daunting, but, you know, a lot of my poems early on were like a page or half a page. And some of the critiques I would get was like, oh, this was looking really good, but it looked like you stopped because you got to the end of the page. I was kind of like, well, yeah, so that's one reason why. And I hope to write bigger stuff later on. But basically I always had my heart broken. So my first bunch of poems were bad. Happy she broke my heart poems. And then. And then just, I don't know, I guess being a politically active black male, a lot of my poems end up being political and free my people, like, let's do better sort of stuff.

[07:49] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah. And it was like, you're in college during like the eighties?

[07:53] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, I should think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[07:56] AIDAN BROWNER: Early eighties, early eighties. Okay, so you're coming off of like the Black Panthers and stuff in the seventies, right?

[08:02] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Not really. A lot of that had died down. So when I was in college, me and my friends were very much like, man, there's nothing happening. Cause it wasn't if things had died down. But I do remember there were a couple of minor flare ups. Unfortunately, I first got there my first week. We had all these bomb threats. So we kept woking up at like 02:00 in the morning. And it was like the first week, week and a half, and no one ever figured out, like, who was doing it. I lived in the Du Bois house, you know, the black living learning center.

[08:45] AIDAN BROWNER: So the threats were directly directed just at the Du Bois house or everywhere at the building.

[08:50] C. MANDELA BROWNER: It took up most of the buildings. Oh, it wasn't a huge boon, but, yeah. So we were gap and out. And then a few years later. Yeah, what happened? So I missed a lot of this. Cause I took a year off from college after being like, the black student League vice president and other positions. There was a, what do you call it? The law school. A professor basically asked a question of a student and then was very apparently pointed directly at the one black student and said something like, you should know this. And it was a question about the constitution, the amendments and freedom, you know, who freed the slaves or something, something like that. And so she felt picked on. And then that created a big thing. And then later on. Oh, yeah. Oh, this was kind of painful. Basically, somewhere in there, Jesse Jackson came. But I think I may have my memory wrong, but it might be actually after the bomb threats, but I'm not sure. But wherever he came, and I was disappointed because he. He kind of flew in, grabbed the spotlight, had had the lights and cameras on him, and knew nothing about what he was talking about.

[10:26] AIDAN BROWNER: So it was just like he embarrassed.

[10:28] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Himself or it was just impersonal. Just, you know, I felt being used somehow, and I felt like he and his people didn't have take the time to find out what the issue was, which, honestly, right now, I don't remember the issue.

[10:44] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah. But I mean, it should have been, like, pretty big, right?

[10:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: It was big enough to try to get attention off of. And it was just obvious that he, you know, he just went on, you know, start rhyming or whatever went off. His normal thing. The other big thing that I had during college in terms of black politics, Washington, we made a big mistake. So the black students were inviting the Nation of Islam to come on campus quite a lot. And, you know, and back then, it was kind of like, you know, are you a fan of Malcolm X? Are you a fan of Martin Luther King? And so, you know, we were trying to, you know, I told you that a few of my friends who were politically active were trying to stay engaged. And so they probably reached out to us, and then they came and they had a series of little lectures and programs, and then they came up with the bright idea of having a program. The topic was, were jews to chosen people? Which isn't. Which is a totally legitimate, I think, question to ask. Yeah, but the problem was they set it up and they left us hanging. The big problem was that they had they scheduled for Yom Kippur.

[12:10] AIDAN BROWNER: Oh.

[12:11] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So I think our campus is probably, like, 25% jewish, and we were, like, maybe 8%. So we got a lot of pushback and started argument back and forth in the school paper, and we were left defending a position that was unnecessary because, you know, the big problem was that they scheduled it to be to create a kerfuffle, you know, to create argument.

[12:43] AIDAN BROWNER: The Nation of Islam doing that.

[12:45] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Right. And then they left us holding the bag, and we're there, but we have the right but we have the right. So we were, you know, we were sabotaged and whatnot.

[12:54] AIDAN BROWNER: And was that band, the band that, like, start hip hop in the Bronx, didn't they come to, like, pin and perform? And you said that they did a really bad job or something.

[13:02] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah.

[13:04] AIDAN BROWNER: Was it cool in the gang?

[13:06] C. MANDELA BROWNER: No. No, it wasn't cool again. I'll think of it later.

[13:10] AIDAN BROWNER: I know. They dressed up kind of, like, you know, total, like, seventies, almost, like.

[13:15] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, they dress up, you know, convinced people.

[13:17] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[13:18] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Don't push me closer. Oh, I've just lost it. Yeah. I love their music. But they. It was funny because they spent half their performance. We came all the way from New York. We came all the way. You know, they came, like, two and a half hours away.

[13:33] AIDAN BROWNER: I know, I know. Yeah. Philly isn't that far, right?

[13:36] C. MANDELA BROWNER: It was that far. And you know that. And they just. I mean, I think it's hard to present rap unless you have dancers in your visual way. So, you know, they weren't playing instruments.

[13:47] AIDAN BROWNER: They're trying to, like, hype you guys up.

[13:49] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, they're trying hype, and it was all hype. And, you know, it's okay.

[13:52] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah. At my university, nothing crazy happened. Although, like, when the war in Israel started, basically, the young Republicans and the young Democrat socialists started taping over each other's posters. That's all that happened to, like, it's basically, like, they'd, like, take the image of Ben Shapiro and, like, draw a clown nose on him. It was that dumb.

[14:15] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Oh, okay. Like, yeah.

[14:18] AIDAN BROWNER: And apparently, like, the young Republicans did invite, like, Candace Owens on campus, but they changed it to a venue off campus because of protesters.

[14:28] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Oh, okay.

[14:28] AIDAN BROWNER: And that was, like, all the political stuff that really happened. There was, like, a bunch of alarms in the dorms, but that's just because the kids couldn't figure out how to not start fires. And, like, the thin blue line kid admit to us that he got off of doing 100 in a 25 zone because he had a PDA card. And I was like, what?

[14:50] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Police. PDA.

[14:52] AIDAN BROWNER: Police. What's it called? Something league. Like, basically the police union. His brother is a police officer. So he showed them the card saying, hey, my brother's a cop. And you're like, why would you even do that one? Like, drive 125. And why would you admit that?

[15:10] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Right?

[15:10] AIDAN BROWNER: Like. Like, you shouldn't be doing that, man.

[15:13] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Like, true.

[15:15] AIDAN BROWNER: Like, that's not the coolest thing in the world, though. It's kind of, like. Like, it's just kind of confusing why you'd say such a thing, right. At least in my opinion.

[15:24] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah. Well, I, um. I gotta say, mommy, I had some interesting, quick conversations about you, you in college, because we were very scared for you, particularly seeing, you know, basically. Was it like the reverse cancel culture thing? You know?

[15:45] AIDAN BROWNER: Reverse cancel culture?

[15:46] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, I mean, that's just my name of it.

[15:48] AIDAN BROWNER: But, like, the culture wars and the woke stuff or whatever, like.

[15:51] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, well, mainly, like, you know, with the is. You mentioned Israel Palestine.

[15:57] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[15:57] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So, you know, we're seeing in the news, wherever people signed this or that petition, which I would have back in the day. I would sign a lot of stuff.

[16:07] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[16:08] C. MANDELA BROWNER: And just seeing people live, you heard some future being threatened, you know. No, you will not work for Wall street ever, because. Yeah, because you've crossed my, you know, my line. So we were, you know, we definitely, like. I definitely want to see evolved. It's also like, oh, but, dad, you gotta be so extrade careful.

[16:28] AIDAN BROWNER: Mm hmm.

[16:28] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So I. You know, it was a concern.

[16:31] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, it was a concern.

[16:35] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Is this your first year of college?

[16:37] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, this is my freshman year of college.

[16:44] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I don't know. Like, your dad was saying that he took up poetry. Is there something you're working on or something you're kind of focusing on?

[16:53] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay. I mean, for me, I just started my freshman year at the university at Buffalo. It's not the University of Buffalo. They correct you on that. So, so far, I'm taking mostly, like, biology and chemistry courses because I'm not really sure what I want to do. I know I want to do something stem related, so I haven't taken up a major yet. Although, like, I'm taking a lot of, like, interesting classes on the sides. For example, I took a formal logic class, and that was pretty interesting because my experience with, like, philosophy level courses is, like, you know, theory of knowledge in high school. Like, so and so says knowledge is this. Now write a disputatia about it. But, like, using venn diagrams and stuff, basically kind of creating, like, logical, like, and. And. Or Gates was pretty interesting to me, so I think that was an overall good experience. And so far, I've been, like, drifting in between clubs. I'm hanging out with, like, the musicians club because, like, they have jam sessions, and, like, I'm not that good at guitar, but maybe one day I will be the game dev club, even though I can't program that well. I only know, like, a bit of python, which means it's only a bit of gdscript. But the people there are, like, very, very creative in, like, every subject. So I have a friend who's like a really, really good musician there. And I also know a guy who's basically making his own like platformers and just trying to like suss out the game design by hand. I spent a lot of time, particularly freshman year with the Blackstone Business center and they're kind of like a community for entrepreneurship. So a lot of their things are basically like, I mean, kind of things are obvious. Like to start a business you have to know who your customers are. But I feel like a lot of the experience is like applicable to like university, like how to set up a schedule, how to contact people that you want to talk to or work with, stuff like that.

[18:58] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I was really surprised and happy when you told me that you were involved with that within like two or three weeks.

[19:04] AIDAN BROWNER: I mean, they had this event where I was like a startup boot camp where basically you set up your own like mock business and try and market it to like investors and pitch it. So it was over three days, like late Friday to almost midday Sunday. So three days of like classes, learning about all these types of like business plans you should have strategies you should have how to know your audience, how to sell yourself, stuff like that. My group was pretty much just tragic. Like it wasn't gonna go anywhere. I joined it kind of out of pity, but I feel like I learned a lot. Although I'm not gonna do a startup boot camp again because it took a lot of energy. You know, sitting in one room listening to these seminars from like ten to six, I was tired.

[19:57] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Well, I definitely hope that you, I hope you and your brothers and sisters end up doing stuff entrepreneurially. I mean, I kind of have the vision of you three working together. I mean, maybe in a couple of decades after you each get your own, especially become experts, then come together and work together.

[20:20] AIDAN BROWNER: I could definitely see my brother because he's really big into YouTube and streaming and even building computers and modifying keywords and everything tech related. Like, he seems like the type of person who would become one of those like tech youtubers who shows you the newest phone or explains to you like how to change Linux distros or something like that.

[20:41] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, but he's got charms.

[20:43] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's why he's presenting it, right? He's the one on the other end of the camera.

[20:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah. He's not big bang theory geeky.

[20:49] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, yeah.

[20:50] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay.

[20:51] AIDAN BROWNER: And while he's doing like a lot of hockey and rugby and all that.

[20:55] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Stuff too, what do you see yourself doing? Like maybe the next few years, like once you graduate.

[21:02] AIDAN BROWNER: I don't know. I kind of want to.

[21:10] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay, aiden, I remember the little boy when you were, like, four years old, and you would ask me questions about, you know, boy, I was like, when I was your age, and. And then we would play this game of, like, little me and little you hanging out together, like, kind of talking. But. But now I ask you, what do you see yourself doing once you leave college?

[21:35] AIDAN BROWNER: I mean, I'm not sure. I kind of want to, like, do my own thing, like, outside my own company. Do something, like, unique.

[21:42] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Great.

[21:42] AIDAN BROWNER: But on the other end, I'm looking at, like, hey, I might be going for a bio degree. So I'm, like, sitting in with, like, because they bring in people from, like, the us government to talk about, like, things they have. So, I mean, they had this guy from the FDA talking about, like, maybe a position there as, like, maybe an FDA, like, inspector. Because basically it's like, if you have a bio degree, they basically fly you out to, like, duty stations, like, around the country and around the world to basically, you know, inspect, like, food and products. Going into the country for, like, people's safety. I mean, it doesn't sound like a bad job. It sounds like a rather good one. Although I don't think I'm really, like, passionate about that. And, I mean, I think I might, like, do what you do, because you basically fell into Gis. Like, you went to a chance business seminar and found out that you really love something. So maybe that will exist for me.

[22:37] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, true, true. Yeah. Well, remind me about the FDA person, because I. I know someone. Maybe she can give you some pointers about that.

[22:47] AIDAN BROWNER: I mean, I'm probably going to pick up a bio degree because overall, I'm pretty good at biology, studying it, but I don't really want to become a medical doctor. Maybe that'll change. But I'm not passionate about it. I don't want to go medical school, and Nana's doctor pimple Popper isn't great for my mental health.

[23:11] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, right, right. Yeah. You should read this book called Aerosmith, by the way. Sinclair Lewis talks about all these different things that he went through medical school researching, doctoring, small town doctoring, big institutions. Even though you're not interested in it, it just shows you how life can take you all these different directions. And unfortunately, it deals with a lot of being disappointed by institutions and people. So check that out one day.

[23:47] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, I forgot his name, but my scoutmaster brought in his friend who was emergency room doctor during the pandemic.

[23:57] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay, all right.

[23:58] AIDAN BROWNER: And he was talking about, like, being an emergency doctor. Room doctor. Yeah.

[24:05] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Pause. Yeah. Hi. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I just figured.

[24:15] AIDAN BROWNER: I tried to talk a little louder.

[24:31] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Oh, solid chairs. Okay. Any particular point?

[24:51] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay. I mean, you already told me that yesterday, so I guess he still remembers.

[24:56] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay.

[24:57] AIDAN BROWNER: About your.

[24:57] C. MANDELA BROWNER: It might change your vision. Don't remember.

[25:00] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, okay.

[25:03] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Like you on Yao or. Yeah.

[25:09] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay. So, dad, what hopes do you have for me? What do you see in my future?

[25:14] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay, well, I hope that you stay the wonderful, generous christian that you are. I'm so proud of you with the. With the boy scouts, being an eagle scout, and proud that you stuck out through high school. You know, I'm surprised I have any hair left with all the times you didn't hand in your homework and all that. So I'm so glad that you've flipped the script and doing well in college. I eventually hope to see that you're working for yourself. And definitely, you know, as I mentioned earlier, that you and your siblings get along and create empire of some sort. You know, name some stuff after me.

[26:03] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay.

[26:05] C. MANDELA BROWNER: And, you know, I've told you this a few times, but it's a good time to remind you. The first time you got sick, you were around four, I think. Obama had just been announced as president, and you ran a fever, and I put alcohol on you to cool you down. Just remembering stuff that mom would do for me, etcetera. And I started praying over you, and I was praying really hard, like, God, let this boy be okay. And, you know, I had this, like, vision and was kind of taken away. I wasn't asleep. I definitely had some vision. And then also now an image of when I was asking about you, you know, God would say, yeah, don't worry. Yeah, he's fine. Ask me something else. But then came, like, visions of you drawing stuff. All these different symbols, like dancing, almost like little tiny Keith haring figurines, but they. But they were mixed in with, like, all these different symbols. So I just kind of figured you'd be doing something, like, either creative writing, writing, writing a graphic novel, or doing something mathematical or doing some sort of combination. But basically, I just knew that, you know, you'd be okay, but I didn't know, like, how far out in the future. And then the bigger concern is, you know, you know, I hope you meet the right woman and have a great life and give her some good, polite grandkids eventually.

[27:52] AIDAN BROWNER: Cool. I don't know. I don't know. Like, with, like, ramp stuff. Like, I'm trying, like, with guitar and stuff. Because, like, when I'm bored. Like, I don't know cuz you know, I play video games a lot, but like with college, which was really like not, not really much anymore, honestly.

[28:13] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay.

[28:13] AIDAN BROWNER: Like in school I don't so really like, you know, I'm not a good guitarist but like I can just like talk to people about guitar. I can show it off to people and stuff like that. Although I'm not sure if I like want to be a musician yet or anything like that or like even like GoPro because I'm not even anywhere close to that level.

[28:32] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, I feel a little guilty because I, you know, we had guitar up there on the top of the closet for many years and I was actually scared to take it down because I was scared your little brother would see it and break it.

[28:44] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[28:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So, yeah, I definitely enjoyed playing guitars in teenager. Yeah. And love the fact that you want game two music, so, yeah, why not? Everybody should have hobbies.

[28:57] AIDAN BROWNER: True, true. And like, I feel like at university I've met like a lot of like very creative people. Like at my game design club, they're like musicians or artists. There are people who are just good at programming and I'm not really like at their level and really any skill yet, but I hope to like pick up some skill from them and I could use them in something else.

[29:17] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Definitely. A few years ago, I had very light involvement with the organization called Civic, Civic hall. And what they do is they, they basically have hackathons and they, they match up computer savvy people with people involved with a subject matter, like solve this or solve that.

[29:44] AIDAN BROWNER: Like, and building software for like a cause.

[29:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[29:48] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay.

[29:49] C. MANDELA BROWNER: And then back then they were using a New York City data, which now has gone this whole new complicated, fancy ecosystem and whatnot. So, you know, they would get together, you know, maybe over a twelve hour period and try to use the data to create an app that solves this event. So I definitely recommend that you, you get involved with that just in general, like get around smart people who are about popular, positive things, that are doing things, and that will steer you the right way.

[30:22] AIDAN BROWNER: So when you went to civic hall, were you doing it as like a GIs analyst or were you like giving them the data or presenting in some way?

[30:30] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I hit that because I was always concerned because just being a government employee.

[30:36] AIDAN BROWNER: You know.

[30:39] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I didn't want to be accused of using the data inappropriately. So I went there as a civilian, like, hey, you know, let's, let's get involved a little bit.

[30:48] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, because, you know, I know, like, you're very, like, you brought me to your job and, like, showed me a lot about, like, how making, like, annotated maps for the city works and how you use the data to, like, you know, create maps that show off, like, particular features. And I know you're very passionate about that.

[31:06] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's the. The other art thing.

[31:10] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[31:10] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So I spent a lot of time going, oh, now let's make this look pretty.

[31:14] AIDAN BROWNER: Oh, yeah.

[31:14] C. MANDELA BROWNER: As opposed to just tell the story. So a little mix of that. But it's interesting now because, I mean, more and more people have the tools that I used to have all by myself. Okay. So I've had to adjust to that new reality. Oh, okay. All right. So I am a gis analyst. Gis stands for geographic information systems or geographic information science. And most people look at people like us and just say, map maker. But what you do is you basically manipulate data, so you match it up with the data, with the place. So it may be stuff like, oh, people in this area, they are poorer, richer, have this interest, are represented by these people, or have these type of. Since I live. Since I work in a housing department, they have this type of housing, or hospitals, schools in their area, that sort of stuff. And then, you know, just manipulate all sorts of ways.

[32:20] AIDAN BROWNER: I never heard of what mom did while she was working at HPD. What did she do?

[32:25] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Oh, she was dealing with selling run down New York City owned property to. Well, I dealt with co ops. She dealt with small businesses that were in the area. So I think it was a pop program and whatnot.

[32:46] AIDAN BROWNER: So how did you meet her?

[32:48] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I met her on the job. Okay, so Hp, which is housing preservation development, department of just, like, a bunch of other city jobs, they hire in waves. There tends to be ups and downs with the finances and their budget cuts and hiring fees, and all of a sudden, it opens up. So when she came along, it felt like I was in college and a college sophomore, junior, looking at. We called it fresh meat bait. Looking at the new girls. Come on. So she was part of a wave of people came. And I remember she walked by my desk, and she has a high pitched voice, and I heard her, like, my ears went up like a dog going. And so we started talking, and it was even funny. Like, the first week or two, she was talking about dates, and I was like, oh, no. Like, don't go to that movie. It was really bad. And then she came back. Yeah, you're right. That movie was really bad. Later on, she even tried to get me to date one of her friends, and I wasn't interested and went on a date and ended up. It was the one time I went a date and argued with someone.

[34:05] AIDAN BROWNER: Oh.

[34:07] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So, yeah, we went roller skating. Yeah, with Allison, and I was interested in her. Allison.

[34:13] AIDAN BROWNER: That must have been awkward.

[34:15] C. MANDELA BROWNER: It was awkward and actually kind of funny.

[34:16] AIDAN BROWNER: Well, could everyone roller skate, or were you, like, slipping and sliding everywhere?

[34:21] C. MANDELA BROWNER: We did. Okay. That wasn't the point, you know, bad. We were. Me and this other woman was, like, punching Judy, you know, verbally. Yeah. So, yeah, it was one of my three worst dates, probably.

[34:35] AIDAN BROWNER: Mm hmm.

[34:37] C. MANDELA BROWNER: But, you know, probably got me closer. Mom.

[34:39] AIDAN BROWNER: Nice. Nice. I had a. I had a question, but I forgot it. I'll remember in a second. Okay, so actually, have your first date.

[34:48] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Or how that happened? Oh, we had lots of dates, but we did group dating, and then we kind of. Because we were working. We didn't work together so close that we had individual projects, but, you know, we were on the same floor. And back then, you know, it happens, like, at these agencies, the young people kind of hang out together more, and then when you get older, you're not interested after work. So we basically did a lot of group dating, and then we tried to hide it, and then, of course, later on, we found out, like, ah, yeah, I saw you over here. I saw you over there, like, once we announced that we were together and. Yeah, and I remember when I took her to a. To a college friend's book reading. You know, you release a book, and at the end of it, you know, she. I said something, and she said, well, it's about time. And so she thought she was like, this is your last opportunity. And I was like, yeah, but you said, like, you know, we're not to date. So. So I got. I had my messages screwed up, and I. You know, I took her too seriously when she said she wasn't interested. Yeah, there you go.

[36:10] AIDAN BROWNER: You also said that, like, early on in your career in, like, city government, you basically. You weren't paid much. It was like, you know, like, worse than working at McDonald's. And you're jealous of all these other guys who are basically, like, involved in shady stuff. We're basically being paid more than you. So as, like, city government changed in that regard?

[36:31] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I'm not sure. Mainly because, I mean, a part of city government were, like, all the smart, young rippersnappers. I sound like Biden, where all the world the top flight candidates are, and they get paid pretty well, but a lot of them had, like, three or four internships that they had to work for free or nothing before they got there. So I do feel bad for your generation that, that, you know, you have to be wealthy just to, to get a foot in the door and survive. Otherwise you gotta just go for the low job.

[37:09] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[37:09] C. MANDELA BROWNER: But, um. Yeah, it, it, um. I'm sorry. I just had a brain for it. I lost myself.

[37:16] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay.

[37:17] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah.

[37:26] AIDAN BROWNER: In church specifically, any questions come to.

[37:30] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Mind in terms of that. Okay. Yeah. Do you feel forced by us to, or particularly me to go to church?

[37:39] AIDAN BROWNER: No, I go to church, like, in college under my own accord. So, I mean, I don't feel forced because it feels like, you know, natural thing to do. Right.

[37:47] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Did you feel forced when you were like, twelve?

[37:50] AIDAN BROWNER: I mean, when I was younger, yeah. Because that means you have to wake up early and you just want to sleep after, like, you know, all those hours of school and stuff. But I mean, like, you know, you get, you get used to waking up, like a little earlier. It's not even like that early. So that was like, my main problem with me. But I mean, I think the community here is really great. And what they teach here is very good because, like, definitely, like, here compared to other places, like other churches, they, they don't really talk about how you should live. They just talk about, like, how, how you should. I won't even say how you should believe, but it's almost like they're going over the Bible as if it's a textbook to be, like, studied. Right? Like, they're too concerned about, like, the, like, pinpoints of their, like, specific theology instead of, like, how you should apply that in your life, in my experience.

[38:40] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay.

[38:41] AIDAN BROWNER: So I feel like this church gives something, like, very, very valuable. Like, they talk about, like, living a christian life and living one, like, in this community.

[38:49] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Sounds good. I'm definitely proud of your, your, your involvement because I know when I graduate from college, I really didn't come back to church until I was like, 26, 27. It took a while, like, I would come back for special days, like, yeah, like Christmas and Easter. I was one of those people, but it took me a while to reconnect. Yeah. So I'm definitely proud of you and glad that you hanging in there.

[39:16] AIDAN BROWNER: Although, like, one, like, gripe I do have about this church is like, we do get a lot of, like, tourists from Europe. Like, they're lined out in front of the block and I think, like, the church should, like, try, like, integrate them in the pews. Like, just have them sit wherever, especially if they're staying for the entire service, because it kind of feels like if you have, like, a gallery of entirely, like, tourists from, like, a foreign land, it almost feels like our, like, service is becoming like a tourist attraction or like an exhibit, not like something that they also participate in.

[39:49] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Well, definitely that's been happening lately.

[39:51] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah.

[39:52] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So, yeah, I've seen people all over. Yeah, it definitely felt odd and like.

[39:56] AIDAN BROWNER: It feels like, kind of out of place for me, honestly. So cool. That's my $0.10.

[40:10] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay.

[40:10] AIDAN BROWNER: All right.

[40:11] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Yeah, it's been. The community's been a real anchor. I see. I know sometimes I see stuff. Like, I went to the. Here we have something called the council, which meets once a month in the main place downstairs. And I went there decades ago and to where the church leaders get together and they do the calendar and decide, you know, some policy and some operations. And I remember just being like, oh, you know, basically, yeah, another government, you know. But I went there about a month ago and I just saw the people, like, volunteering their time. And I had another very positive, like, feeling watched over me. I was like, wow, look at these beautiful people trying to try and get something done together. And so part of that was my own maturity. And part of that was, you know, back then I was. I was part of a protest group, like, you know, we want this, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was throwing up there, so in my attitude, too. But I found it to be a real anchor and was really appreciative when my mother died. Just looking up, like in the middle of COVID and seeing all, you know, so many deacons show up at our small funeral here in New York, the one we had here. So, yeah, that's it. I just value the fellowship and togetherness and the doctrine. It turns into doctrine. Is there anything you guys would like to say to each other to close? Okay.

[42:02] AIDAN BROWNER: I mean, we're gonna see each other.

[42:03] C. MANDELA BROWNER: After this, when you live together, right? Aiden, hang in there. I get advice from your brothers and sisters about how to on the social front. That's my main concern about you. You'll do well career wise. And I suspect you will make a name for yourself.

[42:27] AIDAN BROWNER: Thank you.

[42:27] C. MANDELA BROWNER: So, yeah, that's it. Proud. You keep going. And we gotta organize your eagle ceremony. Maybe we should have it right here in this room.

[42:36] AIDAN BROWNER: Okay.

[42:36] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Okay. Nice and small. So we gotta get on that.

[42:39] AIDAN BROWNER: Cool. Cool. Yeah. I'm not sure if I have anything like that, that big to say, like, I don't know. Nobody says that they're proud of their dad. Right? But, I mean, I do love you. So.

[42:50] C. MANDELA BROWNER: You told me that, but.

[42:52] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah. Like, and I know you're definitely hanging in there. Cause, like, you could have, like, retired years ago, but you're staying in, you know, for my brother and for my sister and stuff like that.

[43:00] C. MANDELA BROWNER: I don't like.

[43:01] AIDAN BROWNER: Thanks.

[43:02] C. MANDELA BROWNER: Thank you. Acknowledgement means a lot.

[43:05] AIDAN BROWNER: Yeah, cool.