Cammi Granato Ferraro and Angela Ruggiero

Recorded August 7, 2020 Archived August 7, 2020 57:25 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv000113


Friends and former teammates Cammi Granato (49) and Angela Ruggiero (40) talk about growing up playing hockey as girls on boy's teams, what it was like to win gold medals at the first Olympics that allowed women's hockey, and what they hope for the future of women's hockey.

Subject Log / Time Code

AR remembers playing hockey as a child and how supportive her family was.
CG and AR remember playing hockey on an all-girls team for the first time.
CG and AR talk about the rivalry between the US and Canadian teams.
AR and CG remember winning gold at the first Olympics to have women's hockey.
AR talks about the prejudice she faced as a woman hockey player even after she won an Olympic gold medal.
AR remembers deciding to retire from playing hockey.
CG talks about how her sons see women's sports as equal to men's sports.


  • Cammi Granato Ferraro
  • Angela Ruggiero

Recording Location

Virtual Recording

Partnership Type

Fee for Service



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00:06 So I'm Angela Ruggiero. I am 40 years old. Today is August the sent the skews me August 7th 2020. I'm in Weston, Massachusetts, right outside of Boston. And my interview partner is cammi granato who's one of my teammates from two Olympic teams and a personal friend of mine.

00:31 And I am cammi granato. I am 49 years old it is as you said August 7th 2020 in the midst of a pandemic it is I am in Vancouver Canada. I have lived here for 15 years from Chicago and is my partner today and is one of my teammates was one of my teammates joined our team when she was I think 15 years old and also someone that I completely adore.

01:06 All right. Let's get going Kimmy. Here we go. So I think we need to start with.

01:14 A bit about us. I can take a first swing at this cuz these questions aren't very hard. I am an ice hockey player. I competed in for Olympics Nagano. Japan 98 Salt Lake City 2002 Torino, Italy and 22006 and Vancouver Canada in 2010 with a gold silver bronze silver. And yeah, that's that's my Olympic background.

01:46 And I played in the Olympics in 1998, which was a gold medal in Japan Nagano Japan along with Ang. And I played in Salt Lake City in 2002 and was a member of the national team for 15 years.

02:02 And a lot of it was with you and we had fun together, but people don't obviously you can't just snap your fingers and and compete for as long as both of us were able to compete. I think we really interesting to start with what it was like to play hockey as a young girl when women's hockey wasn't a thing especially for you and definitely for me, but the just I mean, I'll kick off the question to you. What was it like playing? Basically Boys Hockey growing up and and what was your experience? Is it as a young woman?

02:42 You know, I had a really great youth hockey experience. There were definitely obstacles but I was pretty oblivious to the fact that people really cared about this girl playing in the game. There's a lot of noise around the fact that I played there wasn't one girl in my whole association or anybody that I played against all the way up until I went to college at Providence College with women. I had never played with women. It was incredible. So I think looking back I just thought I was at one of the guys. I had three other brothers that played the obstacles. I think War they were a lot of adults that really did just completely disagreed with a female playing hockey. So they would tell their kids to take a run at me certain parents would say they didn't want to play another boy wasn't going to plan the team so they would tell the coach you should cut her. She shouldn't make the talk to you in with my son's you're not going to play and I was pretty lucky to have

03:42 Go to Stand By Me the organization who stood by me the new I had I had a coach on another team threatened to.

03:52 To break my collarbone if I played in the game you stuff like that, but I didn't for some reason I was a bit shy or off the ice, but on the ice, I never felt.

04:02 Ever felt fearful I never felt like I didn't belong that was the key for me other people didn't think I belonged and when I got into the lobby, I felt really awkward and I would have had to go change in the girls room. I felt really awkward. But when I get on the ice and felt like I belonged and I wouldn't identify myself as a girl playing the game. I was identify myself as a hockey player. I know your family all played fortive obviously at home. It was probably or just one of the hockey players not a very high-level professional in an olympic-level coaching and everything. So I think their dreams with the same and they're big and and I Saw III follow those and I had so many great things come to the house as far as like crate training and I just asked bubba love being like just a hockey player and I was accepted by that. So I think that was the that was the big difference at one point. I remember changing in a broom closet because I figure skating figure skaters.

05:02 Do You See Me Now call me weirdo for playing and I and turn the lights off in the bathroom and so I remember those little things are going to bug me for like a second and so other than that I felt it was different but I felt like I had a good experience and how about you like growing up in California will U Michigan or California with California? Yeah, there was little to no hockey in California that the time we had the LA Kings but there's only one protein I started playing hockey in 1987. I was 7 years old and my dad wanted my brother to play and he signed up my brother my sister myself and the guy at the brink actually just sign up my brother the guy at the rink said

05:47 If you we really need hockey players cuz this isn't California and there weren't enough hockey youth hockey players to feel the team. If you sign up your girls will give you a family discount and your point my family was super supportive. They sign the three of us up my sister play two years then then I was the only girl after she stopped in the whole state for my age. So that was really interesting. I was on all boys teams playing, you know state championships only girl there once a year I go to Colorado for tournament. There's one other girl that I played against and I knew her I'm like, you know there she is actually played against her in college and she's part of the US program for a bit. But that was it in tierpoint. My family. My family is also my support system. I think a little bit different than your experience. I actually got cut from a team and I was nine.

06:42 And to that point I was oblivious. Like I was in the second grade, I signed up and say what do you want to be when you grow up, you know dress up day ever was like doctors and Astronaut, but I was like, but when I got cut from that boys team, that was a very pivotal moment for me because it

07:12 Am I based? My dad said you can either quit and they proved them right or base. We have to be the best player out there not the third or fourth fast, which I was or if you got to be the absolute best and then they cannot cut you cuz my brother made that team got to go to Canada. I stayed home and I'm crying learning about gender at 9 like but it was it was the best thing ever happened to me and I was able to make the national team of the young age because literally I remember from that day on 9 years old on every single time. I got any ice. I had like in tent and a chip on my shoulder you had to be the best. I wanted to be everyone out there and it just shifted my mindset to being like completely present on the ice as opposed to just a kid having fun going through the motions because I I didn't feel like I belonged I felt like I had to prove that I belong so little bit of a different experience than you but I think similar in that my family was the one that said no you can do this and don't let others dictate your happiness.

08:11 Corner in him and he said a really good you made a really good point about like proving that we had a boat along and I think that was pretty much the manttra for me as well. Like I did have to prove myself by myself at the time for sure. Like I feel like an Illinois hockey wasn't all that advanced either and I was one of the better players and I felt good about that. But you always did have to prove yourself and even through that, you know even asking me to fix it even after we're always trying to prove still in the sport in the end and we're still trying to prove ourselves. So I do I do think that sort of the man Trevor for sure. I'm curious if you were one of the first women in college hockey to get a scholarship at Providence College and suddenly you're not the only woman. You're like me. What was that like two for the few said for the first time?

09:03 Give me the team of women. It was really awesome because although my first game I have three checking penalties. There's no checking in on sake I took sat at the penalties, but I walked in the locker room and I could just I could go to La Conner from the start of the like with the boys. I had to wait till they're all dry so I can hang out with everyone that was like me and all the girls that I was meeting for sharing the same stories find and play at the time where we were able to have e-coli sister is the men's team. I was on the ice every day and I was like, this is the greatest thing ever on the ice every single day like we didn't have that at home. So that was really amazing and I just being a part of the team for me. What kind of my favorite part was just all these girls and I will say that my parents actually told me that I

10:03 Shuffle ride and because my in women's hockey that it just wasn't a thing then to get a full ride for her and late later. I found I found my like a note that showed like Portal Park tuition at their house and they didn't have to go to the same school as my brothers at the time and I was so heartbroken that we couldn't play together equal years with them and they were just they just cut off and I know I was like, yeah, but I didn't I was thinking this is a thing though. I was I was honestly nobody recruited me not like nobody to give me I had to go and I talked to coaches and one was interested in a budget.

11:03 Crew again back to there's such a discrepancy between the men's and women's programs and I think there were three if I'm not mistaken it was is Northeastern you guys in some form of scholarship. My first time playing girls hockey was in 1994 Scott Plummer my coach who was one of my biggest supporters by far family friend of ours. He put you assemble the girls hockey team. I don't know if he did it because he's like Angela and the sprinkling of other girls actually be nice if they had their own team and we can Cobble together girls ages 13 and 19. We flew over to Connecticut. First time. I was ever on a girls team played the Connecticut polar bears in Rhode Island changes exhibition. That's how I got seeing for my school Choate Rosemary Hall, but I just remember like you. Oh my God, I don't have to change in the girls bathroom.

12:03 Room and everything and everyone here is my friend and I was like Chatty Cathy the whole time. I was I just was Miss social butterfly. I'm so excited to be in a locker room of girls and my peers my friends that I could get in touch with some of them to this day and that was such an interesting like I love this word hockey so much. I play Boys Hockey him and the guys I played with her always fantastic my brother and especially who is always a goalie on my team. Like we are best friends growing up, but but it's very different when you actually got to play on a girls game and and then I remember getting to play with you.

12:41 The first summer I made the national team or the exhibition team at least and I so I'm 15 at this point and I didn't know anything about the national program and someone gave me a deck of cards because I think it was the first deck of cards for women's hockey and I was the kid in the locker room going around in my team age. Can you sign it is only looking out that everyone like yourself, but you are Captain it, you know, you and Cindy Curley in the route number of amazing women that were around Kelly Dyer but I remember I'm like, oh my God, I'm with the women that I suddenly realized existed that were like my role models of my Idols. I didn't know about how pretty face and it looks back at your face and your smile was so big and you were so excited and what I loved about it is like this.

13:41 Used for energy and excitement your smile is as wide as your face and it and that you played so Fierce and he played with that sort of attitude that you said you'd had to take on when you got cut and I'd love that about your game. And you are the one I always went to when I needed someone to protect me to go to your favorite memories. I think of you when hockey went when adjuster for I was so happy to be at your first could be part of your first game. That's really cool. And remember that visual. Can you explain what that's that was like or what what that means to like protect each other after like scoring goal?

14:36 How how that works in like how that feels like sometimes the Canadian the US team were as you know, they were the Rivalry was so intense and we are both always wanting the same thing. We always wanted we're fighting for the gold medal in every world championship and every gold medal game that we played and it was always so intense and as a Ford who scored a lot of the defenseman the defenseman would try to

15:06 Not there. Nobody checking but be super physical and try to take me off my game by being super physical and so I would help you know, sort of kind of send the same message of like I don't want you to kind of I don't want you to mess around with our four words that are our score. So I think that's sort of the message that we were trying to send back. Yeah hockey is a game where you know, you you I think need to balance energy with energy. And if one at 1 teams coming with more energy be more physical and you don't bring that same amount of physicality energy excetra. You just going to be in trouble on the scoreboard. And so it's

15:48 Yes, it's harder in Woonsocket is again you there's no fighting. You don't hit as much as tons of physicality. You try to beat them on the scoreboard so to speak but they're still this this physicality to the game and with us and Canada. Maybe we can dive into that can be like that is to me the ultimate rivalry that I think the world needs to know more about this because you know, we liking it here in North America that are the Red Sox in the Yankees and their Fierce Rivals and we can't trade our players. So you played for how many years on the 15th? I was like around the same and you know, where

16:30 You can't but you can't trade so we saw the same names the same faces that same rivalry year in and year out and yes I'm going to face has came and went but but US versus Canada women's ice hockey in the 90s to 2000-2010 now getting into the 2020s like it doesn't change. Its you past that I felt like you pass that rivalry on from generation to generation competitor and you can do everything possible to beat them. And so they're throwing elbow in your face to intimidate you could Camis literally one of the you are the best bike all time player for Team USA Hockey first woman in the Hockey Hall of Fame with Angela James, obviously.

17:24 Uberti shatter the scoring records just worried that the most dominant but without the most dominant player ever played against without

17:33 Without that that the the the physical presence if you will because you were so skilled and Artful and you the game, you're so smart and you were so precise and like so obvious a player like yourself if you can get you off your game and that's for sure to try to get me off my game which is what you do to your opponents when you want to shut them down. And so I thought I was part of the game to that was it didn't bother me. It was just time to the calling of find you to be like, okay. Can you just get them off my back please at the same time love that live. There was checking if you would have destroyed people. I think it would have been a bad little of what I loved about your game.

18:33 And just the way you were so physical so high energy and also offencive like you played so hard to beat you like I don't like when you come down a player come down and play how you want to want to try to be here in practice trying to be so hard to beat you to get around you to get to the net and then on the offensive side. You you were such a force as soon as you come up the ice like a freight train and literally like you just could you were with the biggest Transformer the park for us, which was awesome. And yeah, I had so much fun. You got to bring it. I love it. I mean protector goalie protect your team, but you know, I want to have some fun too and you got to get out of the phone when you came up and I had fun too.

19:33 Oneida play teams that didn't have the same caliber. I just got bored and I got frustrated and I need to go where every game would feel and in the future feels like US versus Canada because I don't. That is why the Rivalry is so big and that is why we love playing each other so much is because typically in the years that we played there was every game you went into against Canada. You weren't sure it was a normal. You're not sure what the score was going to be at any other time you played an international team because those teams were not at the same level yet. You knew

20:17 That you were going to walk away with the win and there's nothing worse as a competitor to train as hard as we did to work as hard it it to love the game as much as we do and going to a game in the first 5 minutes and it's over so boring and then when you get people trying to get off the game that you get off the game plan and it's just nice to us. Either of you you talk about the Canadian teams in like there's so much that that people didn't know weren't read it. So you knew other people for each of you was there anybody in particular that was like your your your your arch-nemesis? So you're you're quite the Rival like any one person from an offensive standpoint head-to-head Hayley wickenheiser, even though she's much younger than me. I feel like we've got a lot and she exactly me the only stitches I've ever had in hockey and was it when we wear

21:17 Face mask and we're covered in typically, there's no blood or anything, but she somehow find a way to cut me really intense game in the middle of I think like Nova Scotia on at Olympic to or where we were I don't know if you remember that game and what it was so intense car and I got like laid out in the I got I got Haley just grabbed me and Whitney To The Ground by how it slipped up and I hit my face on that. I said, I didn't miss a shift and that I got stitched up in the locker room. I felt sort of like, you know, and then the next day when my lip was like, you know to be with her and I we we battled head-to-head and she was quite physical as well. So we would we would definitely I think her the number one for me.

22:17 What do I do now?

22:19 I would say definitely wickenheiser. I would say Caroline who left big strong forward. I was truth always trying to push it push around in front of the power forward 2 and 1/2 heard was always just this little Speedster kind of General Grabbers. Why trying to get around you? I'd say those three were probably my top three the other wickenheiser was just

22:51 No, just wickenheiser. I love playing against cuz I just I wanted to give it right back. I knew she was giving it to you and I talked about before so yeah that has been different names for Canada. She was with me in 2010 and she didn't make the Olympic team. It was at the end of her career and she should have been on that team in 1998 because her visit her physical presence in her intensity would have helped them in that gold medal game. So I think she got robbed that way but she was very like if you beat her on the face up, she would slash you so hard and a hand or something to make you know, like you don't don't beat me like this a lot, but you were so right in her eyes. That's how intent she played and she was a gamer like she treat you had to go to look out for her every time she was in the offensive zone.

23:51 I was younger and she was I have a lot of respect for her as a player.

23:58 Yeah, I never got to play with against her.

24:01 Maybe 97 for the purposes of this project. I think it's great. We get to talk about the first ever women's Olympic team and the fact that we both got to be a part of that first-ever gold medal team when we were actually the favored to win that gold medal and you know, you're the captain of that team you at you you had obviously I always talk about that. I was the youngest player but we were all rookies which I love the fact that we looked around the locker room. And we all had that youthful look like. Oh my God are in the Olympic Village and I got here but you are the cast in obviously had lost to Canada in every World Championship up to that point. I'd only play it in 1 World Championship at that point because the two years prior we had

25:00 Tournaments instead of world cuz we weren't on a regular World Cycle at that point, but you had a lot more experience leading up to those Olympics and then obviously being the captain.

25:10 What was that? Like when it wasn't like winning a gold medal and not just any gold medal the first ever women's Olympic gold medal the same is like it's not easy to put into words the

25:24 That experience because it was so surreal. It was something that I personally had dreamed about my whole life. I watch the 1980 Olympic men's team win and that meant that a huge impact in the US and I had a huge impact impact on my family who watch the made-for-tv movie over and over and over till I think we broke our VCR tapes we had that we we that Olympic like, I don't know it just being a part of the Olympics and then being able to go to a gold medal game. I remember just feeling so lucky that I was there that I had the opportunity to play and then head up to the potential he would have go battle and I think

26:11 From an individual standpoint. It was really like that the two nights before the gold medal game for me was like, oh my gosh like this is this happening and how do I sleep and how to how do I have to be know? How do I take all this in and then settle down to play because I can't believe I'm here. And so that was that was challenging but as a team leader of the team one of the leaders of the team great leadership, I feel like our biggest goal that year was to come together as a team because we grew we were missing something something was missing. Why were we always losing to Canada and every big game we got we had and the key for us was the team mentality. So we worked really hard on our all our team building trusting each other trusting the roles that we played giving up our own self to the team and making the team bigger and I think that alone was a major Key to Our Success and I feel like

27:10 Winning it was a greatest feeling I've ever had as an athlete ever and the greatest part about that is so you can go back in a second and remember every single moment of that celebration and how it felt and yeah, it was it was a credible. I mean I can see the smiles on both of us a little bit about that moment. We got to jump all over the the pile and cheer and just know that we won all that work we put in and then on the big stage, I mean the big stage for us. What was that was the only stage really for a long time? So

27:55 Was there a moment before that that buzzer on that gold medal game where you realize that like the team had really come together and that you were like actually going to win that game. I think the vibe that day and this is in hindsight cuz cuz cuz we have a few more Olympics to look at back at the change and what maybe you could have done when you won or lost and I think knowing that we looking back on that. We had a really good. Bye in the morning or morning skate every game you have used you do ask 8 in the morning to get your legs moving. And so that morning skate before the the game that night the vibe was really good with the team like really loose.

28:40 I think it came from the day before two days before I beat them.

28:45 Because we went right through this with the crossover game not cross over. I don't know why it's for a reason that we played them in a meeting with j and we are both dear everyone played everybody but we both teams had already clinched the us we were both got it for two days later. We all crazy. It's a warm up games on paper. It meant nothing. That's right, but it's set the tone for that final because we were down 621 know it was for 141-4166.

29:33 We were equal going into these Olympics. And if anything they had the edge because they had beaten Us in any major tournament and we lit them up, you know within the span of 10 minutes. It's just tell me that was it. That was like, oh my God, how could you not feel super confident? And how could you not feel like on your heels from Canada's perspective if we turned it on when we needed to how I felt earlier itself from that question, but I do absolutely million times when I spoke about our team and our success that game alone, although it didn't guarantee us anything it gave us that mental as that we needed and I think it's actually broke their Angela little bit as well because they're starting goalie. If you remember didn't start after that. She didn't want to start the next an issue in Clinton. They're planning apparently planning. And so I think it's scoring an 8 minutes. I do know

30:33 We were like if we could beat them in 8 minutes. We can beat them in two days and that moment.

30:48 You know being a little bit more calm helps a lot and not squeezing cuz I am and where is Salt Lake City and we were the best team by far that year. We squeezed it. We were we were so hell-bent on saying we know we we have to have this win. So we wanted to talk to lose instead of my take on I think is very similar to yours on 98 the team. It was a team like I take that lesson with me for the rest of my life and everything I do is business any any

31:32 Anything I do outside of sports now, which is like encouraging girls and boys everyone to play sports because you learn so much about life in the context of sport and I have those have that that opportunity to play on this team together to see a team actually come together and the success that comes from

31:53 Checking your ego at the door and all the things that you know where bar that 98 team is is I mean, yes the most amazing sports moment I had for sure in my lifetime seeing if I being raised and feeling that but then like that lesson and that that very few people actually ever get to feel authentically again another I'm a big advocate for everyone getting opportunity play play sports, not every team turns out to be that but at least you can burn some of those of us because we didn't have that together actually and we understand the difference and how the production actually you know, it it holds you back and I think that that your public speaking right after the Olympics everyone there was a lot of attention on us as like what are the business people have. You know, what are they want to hear from me like

32:53 Realtor such a parallel between the companies that are teams are in business and Ino Schlessinger radar so valuable and that's why I let you know as much as I was so devastated that we lost the gold-medal game and and Salt Lake. I'm really happy that I went through something like that to understand and reflects see the destruction seas and see what went wrong and then other times and it still hasn't happened for you. Right? So there's always there's always games that don't always work out even though you have this great team, but I felt like

33:41 Vancouver we just didn't have that the edge.

33:47 We have a lot of it. I think we just my personal take was there's a lot of younger players just excited to be there not this might be my one and only shot and I think the 98 teen felt like we spent her entire. Everyone has spent her entire lives. This is our first shot and a lot were planning on retiring or recognize it may not come again because you know, it wasn't like a normal thing by by Vancouver's like we don't win this one. So there is a different even though we know that there's a different bit of complacency that I felt vs.

34:33 Something that 98cm most of the women all of the women played Boys Hockey growing up and then worse if I buy a 2010 a lot of the women thankfully play girls hockey in some ways, which is nice to have that option by then in the NCAA women's hockey had become a full NCAA sport in 2003. I get to play a Harvard, you know women's hockey was sort of on its trajectory and there it in some ways. I love that we had that experience and that we were the first and I love to see that the growth of the game, but but but I always wonder like what I don't know what's the difference between a player now, we're playing in the future that doesn't even fathom not being able to play or having to like talk your phone still interchange in the bathroom or did that struggle make us stronger in some way then just having it.

35:33 Do you know ya course? There's a woman's name? Oh, yeah, they're in the Olympics. Oh, yeah one day there might be a real professional women's hockey league with you don't currently have mine going to meet, you know, 20 20 years later after being put on that that man with a platform arira was so you're lucky to be playing so that's what you that's what you get and we saw we were very thankful for that opportunity. But if we actually tried as a team after 98 to get some rights to its mcquality to get just recognize that there were some deficiencies in the way. We were things were handled with our team compared to the men's and we were shut down so hard that it divided our organization with us. It's severed some relationships. It was a bit of a threat and a bit of a sort of shut up and we weren't allowed to leave.

36:33 Scared we were scared that because that was the only thing we had was was that we couldn't go to another team. No one else could sign us. We weren't there wasn't a professional League to say well didn't you know someone else might want it was that was that so we had it was it was rough and I and I think that leads into the team, you know, I think it was what year do you remember the year with with with the women's team when they fought for the rights and and one some quality 2077 10-15 years later to get behind it. And these girls showed tons of Courage by you're sitting out and and not in your world championship. So I think that we had a scene. It's such a different light when we tried it and yet these girls were able to actually make some Headway with a quality 2017.

37:31 But I think it's also reflective of society right space for is a microcosm of society. And in 2011 with a gold medal in our pocket. I don't think Society was Yeti yet ready to treat men and women equally in the sports arena the Olympics had her, you know, I'd pushed it. I mean even in Tokyo's the first time in Tokyo 2020 or 2021 equal number of male and female competitors and I think about when I 98 I came home from the Olympics Kami. I don't know if you know this story.

38:12 And I was told I couldn't compete on the ice in a men's pick up game, which is just like of Municipal City run task page. Then you you pay five bucks to get on the ice. It's open ice and you just play shinny hockey and they said I couldn't play and I and I was like what you want to change the bathroom you is there a private skate? Maybe I'm not invited to that. No, it was an open skate everything in Black and White shift hockey for men only and I could have you know, if you're the number of things that I was I was like well and then I threw the Olympic Card out there. Hey, I've got to go metal. I'm good enough. He's not that that should matter but they laughed in my dream ended up changing. They didn't changing the rule. I went in like an investigative reporters with an undercover and got them to change the rule which I'm very proud of

39:09 But but I couldn't believe in 98 that again. This is the kind of thing. We were still battling and see their conversations totally different. Now where Society is also talking about women equal pay and you know Title Nine the government-mandated with you know, government forcing a hand almost 4 Sports organizations, NC double A to treat women than men equally amongst everything in the University. So anyway, I think they're really are we moving in that direction will Society continue to move in the direction in there for women sports moving that they're coming back from Japan in 1998. I had a hockey school at summer and there are a hundred and twenty girls showed up to this Arena and that was so unheard-of.

40:09 They came from all over to come to this and we had somebody went being there and you were part of it a few years to a celebration of female hockey players and these girls said they can now carry their bags into the arena because of the Olympics and not be looked at as carrying their brothers bag. And I think those were small incremental changes. I don't think you're right. I said, I think you're right like administrations and organizations weren't ready for us to have a quality, but they were giving us the opportunity and I think that it started to grow from there, but I do know right after that I was asked to be on the do the radio color commentator for the LA Kings that year and I was really lucky that La was a little bit more forgiving as far as female Force. I could just more accepting. I guess we're mellow about it like even said growing up just kind of like

41:09 How I felt but it was like I was thrusted, California 2011 Sports and now it's different but everyone's working in radio with the NHL for me. I felt like holy cow. We just broke down the barriers in hockey skating in a game. And now I've got to do it again like a now I got to prove myself again and that was like a challenge because I wasn't very good at now. You're a scout. You're you're breaking another barrier. This was more natural than broadcast broadcast position. I mean I was young and thrust into doing radio when you I didn't really know.

42:01 Much about the industry in and had to learn by doing it by experience, but this one has been really

42:14 Really fun and really natural because you're watching hockey. You're analyzing hockey. It's something I've done for an NHL men's professional.

42:31 Yeah, I'm on my way. There's a 3 on 3 League launching next summer. We talked about offline. I need to scout to tell me which players to draft. I'm coaching. I'll be the only woman on the bench. There's a there's eight of us so that talk about what you've done post-olympic.

43:01 So I

43:03 Retired in 2011 after the World Championships. Actually, I was skating off the ice Cami and I looked up and I knew I had another Olympics in me if I wanted but I just felt very complete in a way. I don't I didn't know I was going to retire I was planning on playing in Sochi and I'd Glide it off. I'm never forget. I glided off the ice as we had one that gold medal. So I kind of felt like I can breathe again and and I just felt a sense of calmness. Okay, I did that was a great chapter. I don't know if it's very reflective moment that I'll never forget and I didn't know what the time I was going to retire and then later that year. I dunno announced. I was ready and part of it is I wanted to go back to business school immerse myself in the business side of sports.

43:54 And give back in a way. I had been elected to the international Olympic Committee. So I got to be the athlete rep. So why did issues were talking about equality? Like this is an issue globally for all athletes all sports and I was lucky to get elected. Could I have see in that position for 8 years representing a flight be used globally and I just heard so much of what was going on. I got exposure to the business side. And so I started a company that is called Sports Innovation lab been where who knows if we'll be around a hundred years from now that works for evaluating technology and the trends and Innovation and how technology is changing the fan the athlete the venue media just kind of where the future of the business of sport is headed. So I'm again the only woman in the room in a lot of ways and I talked about this all the time hockey really prepared me again for the wife on living.

44:54 Sports Media Tech, it's very male-dominated and I'm just like second nature. All right, here it is. Again. It's not like I I don't have to Flinch if you will but it's it's a natural kind of progression and I just can't take all these lessons from Sports and try to apply them to my team and being a business person now and being made in the only woman there. So yeah, I don't know what's interesting with a pass that we all take after having been an Olympian having in our case won a gold medal in all the things we could do and give back. I know I I I can do think a lot of Olympians. They always get back. They see the impact. They had I don't know compared to the pro side. It almost feels like feels like a different kind of athlete in some ways cuz there's almost a purity the Olympics. It's so different.

45:54 Experience and then going for a metal. That is so authentic. It's so much different than if you're playing in the pro league and then just took off your season did a couple weeks of your season to go play. You can go back to your pro season after like for us that was our only season and we live for that and I think it only came around for every 4 years to was like, those are only moment be on the biggest stage to be recognized and recognized in a way. Where is like publicity? Why is it was like being recognized as a legit Sport with an atmosphere and intensity and excitement and then there's nothing better and I think it's only sometimes because we're on our own training as a team a lot. We do get together. We did our teams got together in and we're training for maybe six months before somebody Olympic games, but I find that the amateur athlete there is something really special about

46:54 What it means and and that's why they were really lucky to have to experience it. So then I want you to paint a vision for the future, because on the one hand we could say women's hockey and Olympians say very pure and amateur on the other hand. He could be like no we want a week just as big and powerful and successful as the men. What do you want? Tell me? I mean, maybe it's there's no it's not mutually exclusive a but what what's your vision for our game? I would have been amazing not to have like to be able to go back to a DMV in freshly amazing. So that is my point was it makes the Olympics? That's our NHL Stanley Cup, you know, that's that's what I mean that it is a slow process when you're in it, but I think

47:54 Seeing the women part of the NHL All-Star Game this year in the three-on-three competition seeing the you know, professional leagues starting Talk of the NHL getting involved. It's ready. It's there's enough there's enough great players around the world. I can't wait for it to happen. And I'm I'm really hoping that in the next five years. This is what we see and then I'm hoping in a hundred years.

48:40 Morgan said she for his

48:43 I think it lets you froze to me to ya.

48:51 You want me to ask you to want me to go if she's freezing yourself her?

48:58 Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's okay if we have a little Frozen time to will just have her kind of repeat what you were saying before but yeah, if you want to reflect give another minute her signal is kind of coming in and out. That's why she was like disappearing every once in awhile. I think I think your signal is right.

49:28 Yeah.

49:38 Yeah, if you have her cell phone just a thing or see how she's doing and then like yeah, she doesn't respond right away. Maybe I slept on that and we can try to get her back on.

49:51 She go off.

49:54 I think I can record as she figures out how to come back on just on that. You sure cuz it's the same.

50:04 So my vision would be that boys and girls up. She said you all good.

50:13 Can you rejoin?

50:18 Yeah, I think if she clicks that link again, she'll rejoin.

50:30 If she comes back on should I go with?

50:39 And we can well, yeah, maybe give her just another couple seconds just in case she's coming back.

50:46 Mostly like I'm too reflecting for eachother said you all good.

50:54 I don't know what that means either.

51:10 Xmas do you want to say thanks for coming back? Yeah, do you want to finish up or kind of finish your vision may be asked me and then we can wrap kind of right? Okay, I think for the future you were.

51:29 Oh, okay. Yeah some a my vision for the future is that have a women's professional hockey league? Marrying the NHL men's hockey league. Yeah and have teams all over the country and great competition and

51:48 Yeah, that's my goal. That's my hope that that we have that and that's established and its successful and it's not even a question of whether people think that that generation is just becomes their normal boys. My vision is that boys love women sports just like women love men Sports and that the growth of not only women's hockey but all women's sports become professional on the same level that they see it as a true. They see the True Value in the sport and that it's there is normalized and that we have a league that again a tracks the same amount of fans and build off of the there's just there's such an opportunity I think for women sports right now.

52:43 How to change the conversation to end that in a hundred years from now there's there's leaves across the world in every sport where there's boys. There's girls were those men there's women and yeah and then we can look back proudly and say we were part of that change and end it again if sport is a microcosm of society that societies actually awake at that point and valuing their women and changing the conversation and and and viewing women's sports has an amazing form of entertainment just like the men like that since I would feel so proud if my grand great-great grandkids whatever like saw our first team and heard this and said, wow, you guys really put us on the map and struggled and started this conversation and look away our today look at the opportunities.

53:37 That we that we have look at the role models that we all have now as a society both for men and for women and it's it's not just fit Sports isn't just a roundworm n to work learn about life skills have that that safe space for entertainment that is that it opens its doors that the other half of the population globally like that to me is

54:14 What's going on on the ice? It's how we how how what's going on on the ice is actually reflection of how we've evolved is a of the society that that's like I will say that the kids of this generation. I have boys that like your stuff we both have two boys and I think one of the greatest things was I took the boys to the Old World Cup game in Canada. And when we got back from the World Cup game, they were down in the basement and they were and I could hear them and they and they were broadcasting the game with themselves about who scoring in that they were being the women they were actually emulating the women like it was the normal and that to them it was normal and that's not what we know. That's not what we normally see here. And when my son Reese was at the pwhb a good professional women skin that we've posted with each other at he came home and he makes stickers for his little NHL hockey guys.

55:14 And he made stickers of the women when he got home. So tell him he saw it as an a complete. Yeah, he was talking about the NHL players that we're seeing now, but he that generation when they're older and how they yeah your favorite you and I both had male hockey players is our girl models are Idols are a little stickers are little you know, that was what we wanted to be like and like I love that story cuz restart it he obviously has you as a as an amazing mom and he's got he got to see some women's hockey and action and then change his perspective and you're you're I mean, why can't we have boys looking up to girls and girls looking up the boys and boys and girls like like why can't you see, how are you?

56:12 Bright, like butts that to me is I would be so proud that again that what we did to get when is hockey on the map and start that trajectory and change the conversation for everyone not just little girls for for our sons as well as a good way to end this. We're obviously you're I always talk to you but it's going to be able to do it in this context and history for a moment remember cuz sometimes I forget and our daily lives like oh, yeah played hockey. Oh, yeah, like I remember that moment in time and you know, most people don't know how to talk about it all the time of my life. But when I get around like old friends like you old teammates crazy, like I had a cool party.

57:12 What's the newest R&B on hockey player for a living like what an awesome awesome Journey?