Carmen Oliva and Billy Lyman

00:05 Today's date is June, 17th, 2021.

00:11 I was Chicago, Illinois.

00:19 I'm being interviewed by my first-born grandson Billy Lyman.

00:34 That's it. Thank you. Got it. All right, and I'm Billy Lyman. The said, first-born grandson. Today's date is June 17th. 2021, and is Carmen said, we're coming to you from Chicago. I know, I am. And yeah. Today, we're going to be looking forward to the opportunity to interview, my grandmother and hear a lot of about her story. Cuz I think she has a really, really unique and interesting story to tell and one that a lot of Chicagoans could appreciate. So yeah, if you want to start us off by talking about where you, from where you going to wear, whatever you want to start in, go for it. USA 1937.

01:28 In a little town in Puerto Rico and I was born in a farm.

01:36 The family of 10. Five, brothers, Five Sisters.

01:41 Anthem.

01:44 It was, it was a wonderful life. We we had all kind of.

01:55 I'm ready.

01:59 What was it, like having so many brothers and sisters, boys? And they have to scare me. So they had my mother would tell him to take care of me and they wanted to play baseball and I got on their way, but they, they love me. They still do even after I grew up and, you know, it was, it was fun. This is where we lived. Until I was

02:30 15. I went to to Middle School, which was a long distance from where I live. I have to walk and then of my middle school my mother before it. Before we move on to the Middle School. Let's talk a little bit more about cortisol, his quarters. What did it look like a little tiny town when you go in on the same street, you go out and but I didn't live in the little town. I was out in the country. So the distance from the little town to where I live. It was like almost an hour cuz we live way out in the country and the farm, I lived in the look. This looks like a suburb I lived. It was all relatives. We all knew each other. It was uncles and cousins. And

03:30 They were no strangers there and we ate from the farm because my father, you know have the oranges bananas avocados. Yes, or a no mangoes mangoes and all kind of fruits coconut. So that was her our diet really was from there. Then once my father had a cow and a couple some pigs. So there we got milk from the cows and we had chickens got to have chicken, we get all, we got two eggs from the chickens and then my mother will make us, you know, half the chicken and she'll give us each one. A tiny little chicken and she tell her that's our pet. But then when they got big that little pack was used as a meal and we were all heartbroken, but that was how it was.

04:27 So for those who haven't been to, I guess it'll in Puerto Rico and a lot of people picture of farm, you know, especially living in the midwest. They fix your flat ground and farm plans, but our farm was lacking in Valley, but then when you look at one end and that we used to go there and play in the water a lot, and the rest was, it was some been healed, you have to Prime and on all around it. We were like in the, in the, in the valley of this little suburb, some to get to church, or to get to any place to a doctor and all Dad. It was very hard. It was very hurt. My mother was kind of like the doctor. She would, if we have a cough, she'll go to the to the lemon tree and get the lemon leaves on my toes tea, or she had

05:27 She had a scene where she would make that a bath with all kind of flowers and put us in there and do a fever. And she was put us in a tub in here. And and I for some reason it would go away. And we also smell good with all the flowers were they before they had doves. Don't go to doctors that off. And my mother was our doctor and I remember one time when my eyes were shocked with pink eye. I guess. This is what it is. Now. I'm bleeding. Now then and my mother would take us there was some red roses and she would grab the roast is done Robert on my eyes.

06:19 And she said this is going to take it away and it did it did something in the roast is did that. I think I would be gone. So so she was she was a strong one. She was the one that she was a seamstress. My dad was a farmer. She he brought the food home and he had a couple of persons that helped bank with my brothers. Do I have five brothers? So they were in the farm before they came to the state and so I just want to be a farmer in and give birth the five boys.

07:05 Remember.

07:07 I was very little and when during the war and we could which war did the Second World War I could not be so because of the war we went into like a depression and there was no coffee and it was very hard. It's very hard. We have to deal with whatever we could from the farm for on me. And and the and any of the animals we kept because my mother used to say, we don't know, we need those in case we have to sell them. Or yeah, you're on the watchman's. Like right. Right in. And I'm being in touch with people outside, a little village was very hard. We would one person would

08:07 A newspaper, my uncle and that he would pass it around. He would pass a newspaper around so we could all read it and my mother is still a mystery.

08:21 Murder mystery and in this newspaper, which was called el mundo in the middle page. I don't know. And that she would a used to be in the middle of a divorce. Always a mystery story and my mom, she would take this page and we used to say, Mom, you can't do that because that gives paper has to go to my other. Uncle Albert. Yeah, she loved reading. So it was an interesting life, but it wasn't me. See, you didn't have running water.

09:06 And we didn't have we have what they call a latrine. Is that what you call a tree and away from the house have electricity. We can have anything.

09:24 Antha, and my mother's dream was to always or all of us to go to school and she does, when she's send me away to this family close to a middle school. So I could go to this Middle School. How far away was the way she send me. There was a very wealthy family. I remember, I'm they were so glad to have me because they all have boys and they wanted a little girl, little girl. I remember. And he was the maximum. I remember, he was so excited to have a little girl, and I was little, I was real Ronnie skinny all the time and I went to middle school, brother, used to call you feature.

10:24 Yeah, that was my name, everybody in my family. And so that they are. I graduated after you graduate a 6th grade.

10:42 And then, then you go 7, 8 and 9 and then you graduate or 9th grade? When I graduated from 9th grade. My sis, my oldest sister live in, in the San Juan area. She was, she was, she was married. She have two children, and she came to the States. And how far is San Juan from? Do you know, it would take because you would have to either go by horse to get to the road and then take the hooghly cook and or a bus a bus that ran once a day. And so that was that was an experience. We don't, I don't, I don't remember it. I used to go to San Juan to visit and my father used to take me but that was Old San Juan and I remember that was the only time I have been there. You just lived in this little village and you have so many Thief.

11:42 Around you. We were all knew each other. So it was waiting. I guess we didn't need anybody else. If you're unhappy, that will sit through stuff. We didn't have a choice really, but then I graduated from 9th grade. And the next thing would be to go to high school high school day or starts in sophomore year. And that's when my mother decided that the high school that I would have been going through was like 2 hours away. And there was no way she moves by. Then. She could have somebody to take me to take. So that's when she told my sister. Could she come to the states? So, she could go to school. That's when they decided that I was going to leave.

12:34 She was going to send me through my older sisters and my brother. My older brother was here, too. And when I think I came here, I remember how sad it was, because my father didn't want me to leave. And my mother, I guess in her own way. She didn't want me to leave, but she wanted me to go to school for whole idea, was you got a stubby, you got to study and that she had two brothers and started as a cabinet maker, but he became a pilot. He became a very successful person and she said, you got to go to the states.

13:19 So, I came here. Why did your mom, thank you. You couldn't become successful in in Puerto. Rico. Are there was no way I could go from where I live to this high school and come back the same day. There was no way and they didn't have a, she would have to find a place for me to stay. And there was nothing there that she knew. She will leave me with just anybody. She have to know who I was going to be living with and when there was no way, so the only way that I could go to high school was coming here, come in for those that stay in cortisol. Is it what, what do they end up doing? The most of them end up forming or finding other professions? It depends on the family. We have in my Uncle. Tony told he would his his boys left. They just go to San Juan. Yeah, they have to get out.

14:19 Find jobs and they all handled at 11 when they got older and my

14:26 Three brothers left to the States, you know, they work on a farm in Pennsylvania and everybody would leave when they get older. It was nothing. There was no, no. No, I only tell me the farming Park in the farm was from that successful. So obviously having seen how difficult it was during the war. You see, the volatility will tell me about the, your parents, took you to the airport, then it was the first time I went to the airport. And my father, my mom and my dad came because my mom might have kept saying,

15:12 So they took me to the airport when we got to the airport. I had an uncle that live in the San Juan area and he insisted on coming.

15:20 Route to to see me off cuz he knew me, you know, I was like the little girl is so they were all and that he came to the airport in time to the flights comes on. It was Eastern Airlines and my uncle says no no, no. I'm taking her. And he takes me by my hand. And then those days, they let you in the plane with me and the Sea. Make sure and she's telling my mother. No, no. No, I'm do it. I'll do it. You, you stay here. I'm going to make sure she's sitting down, and she's and all that. So my uncle takes me and your Louis. And I sent, he puts me in this plane and I was scared. I was scared to death and we are so it

16:08 This plane takes off the plane and they both are a lady sitting next to me and she kind of friended me. And she said, why are you, you're so? Why are you alone? I will, how come you're alone? And I told her I said I was going to meet my brother and my sister in Chicago.

16:31 And she said, Chicago this plane is going to New York and I just froze. I said no, no. No, so then she called the store you came over and I was crying. I was just terrible and start talking to me. I knew, I knew words in English is as they do teach you English in Puerto Rico, but not enough to understand someone that speaks so fast and she realized her mistake. And I said, she asked me about my brother and my sister and with this lady is translating and I don't know they're in Chicago. Are you sure you're going to say? Yes. Yes, Chicago. And I even have the address and my little first and I showed it to her. So she runs through the cockpit and talks to the pile. I don't know where she did. Well, I'm cry.

17:31 This lady is trying to console me. And the next thing I know the pilot is next to me and he's telling me, no, no. No. You don't worry. We'll get you through Chicago, this and that he takes me by the hand.

17:45 What's a 6, ft tall? Good-looking pilot. I remember being fifteen and looking like them, didn't help that come with me and he text me open the carpet and Sydney's right next to him and he's showing me all the thing. We're scared the heck out of me to make me forget that I was in the wrong plane down. Yeah. Yes, and he, I think he's staying in the same to me. Are you, are you hungry? But I thought she was saying that you were angry. And I kept saying, no, no, no. No, but really what she wanted to feed me. She wanted to give me stuff in Spanish.

18:46 So it was it was it was so and I I remember that time when I think about it, I freeze because I don't remember my feelings, then. I remember crying a lot and wanting to go back home to my, to the, to the Coastal Farm and and thinking I'm never going to get anywhere. I'm never going to see my brother and sister never going to see my mother and dad, you know, scared to death. This to people were so wonderful. The stewardess and the pilot that they held my hand the whole time, the pilot had coming in and out and I remember worrying, who's driving the plane.

19:36 You know what? The story is a beautiful, girl, you don't, they have to be beautiful and skinny and tall and then that time, I wanted to be a stewardess, is funny. I thought of that now and am now. So when we got to New York,

20:16 She said we will have it at somebody waiting for us and we going to go from one airport to the other at the time. I didn't know the name from the Kennedy to the Guardia and there was a stressful enough. You got to switch airport is the flight from Puerto Rico. Now it's worth for hours. But in those days was like 8 hours and took me and Anna cab and that cab was going and she can talk into somebody must have been the other plain to see that we are on our way. But by the time I got to the other.

21:06 Flying the plane. Have the motors going there. Everybody was waiting for that little pipsqueak.

21:29 I remember sitting there and I still was upset cuz I didn't know.

21:34 If this was right, you know, I mean, how do I know? I didn't know, but I sat there. And I remember, I left Puerto Rico, the third Natalie's birthday, and I arrived at 4 on your birthday. My son, my two grandchildren on the time, their birthday. And when that plane landed in Chicago, I have no idea where I was going to be there. And I remember,

22:02 Almost with tears, my brother ran up the scale before he just before the door open. I see, he was like, 6 and he ran in and ran inside the place. And he kept a fish, a fish Up, featuring a screaming, and I stood up and he just grabbed, you know, and could carry me. I was in those days you the plane stops like not in the other number. When I don't talk about it because I remember help.

22:44 Happy. He was. Yes, and of course that my sister was there. Her husband was there and they clobbered me with all this question. Why did you get on the wrong plane in the morning? You were feeding me? What time are you supposed to supposed to be supposed to be? Yeah, I didn't get there until about 2 in the morning on the 4th. Well, I mean, I can imagine how stressful that we never been outside of cortisol. And I never have you been to the United States and all, you know, all these boring experience today.

23:44 I think the worst part, and I still say that. Now, the doctor tells me something.

23:51 And if I don't know, I worry, I didn't know once, you know, you deal with it, but if you don't know, you know, definitely do you have so then I stay. I remember I was with my sister to leave, do Madison and Racine and West, part of the West Loop. Right now. He wanted to a previous apartment. She had two kids. So it was very hard, very hard. So, but I stay with her and, you know, for a while and this was in July, so that Brian, swear that I was to start school. Start in 9th grade.

24:44 No BS stuff from work cuz I already had graduated and thumb, but for some reason I could not get my brother, was the one doing it and my sister living in that area. She couldn't we clean chicken find? A school that will take me. And if those that in there, it was nice seeing 5252. Then if you, if you are a student from a different country than the Puerto, Rico is a commonwealth. But a lot of people didn't know that. And a lot of people still don't know that the school, my brother told me. He said, no, she cannot go here because she's from a foreign country.

25:39 And my brother argue with them, and it's a mess with them to make them. I brought then my brother said no, we have to get her in school. My sister said we maybe she could go to night then learn English and then go to school. My brother said yeah, but she's going to lose our lost six months because by the time all this one on and my sister move and my brother was there to help on my mother from Puerto Rico writing because I know that you're just right now and telling them know, she's got to go to school. No, no. Going to school at night. She's got to go full-time. So in January and January my, but I my brother lives on Erie Street in Chicago. And

26:39 On my way to work now. It was hard for me to understand and I was trying to Vision And even though they gave the same, they kind of want to see my brother where she from. My brother said it's a commonwealth and this and that by then he was prepared and well Street Sandia. And they approve of my grade because I had good grades Wells. High School will find out. He has lost the six months. So I would have two and three.

27:33 From there that another experience because I was intercepted by some of the kids and a couple of the teacher. And what I can't say, all the features of the teacher who are just as bad as though, they were so racial. Where is data, they didn't even know. They were just go back. You don't be long and just like, you know, it was, I would go home crying every night. Every night. I will go home crying and my brother, I would say to my brother. I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back on my brother said feature, you have to

28:20 You have to just, just ignore them, ignore. And by then I was learning in there because my sister-in-law was America. So, we spoke English in the house Anthem. What kept you going back?

28:36 I have no choice my brother baby and I didn't want to go. I would just cry the whole time. I was sit there and the boys, I know they were blowing me. They were saying things. I didn't know what they were saying. I remember and I remember there was one boy there.

29:02 Real tall good-looking boy and he was always make fun of me. And I didn't know what he was saying, a lot because he was saying real fast and I remember going home crying and telling my brother. And I remember getting mad at my brother is saying to him. I just wish he never comes back. I wish she just disappears and two days later. I heard that he was driving on. The Eden. Eden's was just part of Eden's was being oh my God, and I feel so bad. I feel terrible because I do what I do wish him for him to of course. Just leave me alone. You are we all say that in high school, you know and the others

29:59 Some of the other stuff I'm doing the same thing from, I got a music teacher.

30:06 I took my hat that says I have to take my music.

30:14 She was she was give me an assignment. It says, okay, go to the piano and hit this note. I actually understand and she would stand by me in front of the whole class and stay go back. Where you come from. You don't belong here. You don't even know what I'm saying. And you don't I was standing there and by then I didn't cry anymore. I just stood there and I look at her. I just didn't say a word course, I would go home and cry at home and

30:52 I was scared. I was scared to death. That was more of a fear because I I didn't know how to fight back or save to her. You know, I'm I'm from Puerto Rico, is a commonwealth, we belong here, you know, I can say that and

31:11 And she would do this over and over. But you know what? My brother kept saying just study and I will take this, the music things. You know, what, you call it, so I could learn how to read your music and I would memorize this. I will stay my brother said, you got to prove to them then you could do it and I passed the class. I got credit for at least. I'm going answer wrong. Most of the T-shirt or very nice specially. I had to buy me and she was also a sewing teacher in those days. They used to say, you had choices.

32:11 Mother. And she would always think my whatever I made him. Make me stand in front of the class in the homeroom Spirits. You know, I would go home and I will tell my brother misses Cisco, look at what I made and she was so proud of you show. The other student that was always the negative, but my brother always said, look at the positive. Forget about the negative don't ignore the attitude and tired, easy to say that and hard to do. When I came out of there. I was in the middle of the big city.

33:11 Continue. I meant that were only four or five Porto Ricans in the school and we became friends. I met my best friend, which I still keep in, touch with us. She married my brother, and I would still choose him for them. And we talked every couple of weeks and supports. Oh my goodness. She move to Mexico. Marry a person from Mexico and she moved to Mexico, and I lost touch with her. But there were four or five, Puerto Ricans and we just thrown together. What's like, a little four of us are going to place. We where I remember a girl named Carmen made me when she graduated from high school. She went to Roosevelt University and she ended up at the working for

34:11 In an accident half hour, late 50s, soul, that all those kids that I went to school. They all did well, the racism and discrimination and part-time job and went to go after school. I will take the Rush Limbaugh Chicago bus and I work in the merchandise. Mart. Keep punching was my first job is to keep on a loan company and after I graduated and they wanted me to go there. I'm so I did. I went to the merchandise, mart would work full-time and a night. We would take the leg straight out and we go to write Junior College. I was taking courses. Right? Junior College. Wanted to be in Lynnwood.

35:11 And I have taken Italian Spanish, and English course, you know, I spoke those three and

35:19 Do you speak Italian? Place for two years and then I met your grandfather and that was it. I stop. I never finish. I never finished. So, how'd you go from being, you know, wanting to be a flight attendant and a linguist well.

35:55 French was very hard for me. And that's one of the main language is needed to have. And even the professor, you're getting Spanish and that's why I don't say you have to do you have to have surgery, you know, what a store that says? And I said, yeah somebody that's in a plane and the lady was so nice to me. I don't want to do the same thing and he said the store this

36:43 Is a waitress in a plane?

36:47 You always said that to me. It's like being a waitress. You waiting on people. He said, why don't you what he wanted me? Actually, his brain was that I continue going to continue College. Forget about, you know, I already spoke to the two languages and he said, go to where you learned those days for court, you know, they have to get on the way and that was it. And you had to two wonderful daughters daughters and multiple wonderful grandkids, and my life dolls. For the best time. My daughter's racing them when they were babies, you know, and all that sand.

37:47 God. And that's, you know, that's that's the best thing in my life or my family. My kids. We only have a few minutes left. So I want to be respectful of out of our time here. But what would you say your most proud of in your life? And that I made it, I made my brother always said, you could you, you make it you, you will do it. If you deposited, don't let them do that. I remember real quick. We went to stop for gas, my brother, and I were talking in Spanish, and this big guy.

38:33 Came over. He's his old.

38:36 Are you Spanish? And my brother said yeah, he said we are here but you don't look, Spanish your white. And my brother said, where are you from? If he goes, where are you from? I go to Puerto Rico at all. With Puerto Rico. Everybody is black, and my brother looked at him and said, he never got angry. He looked at him from the side of the car. And he said, you know, what, in Puerto Rico, if you're born on night, you're dark. If you're bored during the day, your white. We were born during the day.

39:09 I don't know if that's medically. He said, yeah, you know, a good on him for for keeping his, what? What we only have a few few seconds left. So, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do this today. I'm really happy that we're able to hear. I was able to hear more about your story and where you come from, and how it can, you know, how everything came to be, and how proud of you. And it may be a better person. I don't, I don't think of anything negative. Sometimes it was a lot of negative things that happen in high school and

40:09 You know, I'd work or what but I don't think I'm here. I have five, beautiful grandchildren, one great-granddaughter, and two, wonderful daughters, and my wonderful Darren, and I'm just happy. And that's all, that's what makes me happy. My family just as much as that you're proud of us. We're proud of you. Yeah. Well, you know that, what a wonderful when he came, it was eight hours every day, in Wilmette, and my daughter was brought them off and he would bring him here. I don't Monday, I would take him back.

40:55 We had some fun times back. Then, as a matter fact, my granddaughter when she comes here. I can live there because I have my back bothers me. That 84 years old and I figured you'd. Oh my God, I have my grandkids, when I was, I was, I think I was fifty when you were born. You were born and enjoy them. Yeah. Well, you still got a lot of years, ahead of a lot more great, and you're probably wrap up. But thank you, Nana for doing that. I'm so happy.