Catherine Gigantino, Nancy Sasso, and Sarah Hogan

00:05 My name is Sarah J Contino Hogan. I am 37 years old today is Saturday October 19th, 2019. We are in at storycorps in Atlanta, and I'm interviewing My Mother Catherine Picone gigantino. And my aunt Nancy Picone Sasso Moretz.

00:24 Mrs. Catherine the cone giganti know I'm 63 years old and today is Saturday October 19th 2019. I'm at storycorps in Atlanta. And I'm here with my beautiful daughter Sarah J. Contino Hogan and my best friend sister Nancy Picone sesamoid visiting from Savannah.

00:49 And I am Nancy Picone Sasso Moto Z. I am 62 years old. Today is Saturday October 19th, 2019. We are at story Corps in Atlanta, Georgia and I am with my beautiful niece Sarah to Cantina Hogan and also my best friend Kathy or Katherine Ciccone chicken.

01:15 So I brought you guys here today Mom and Aunt Nancy because I thought it was so important to talk about the legacy of my my grandparents your parents Margaret and Dante Picone. I've been wanting to do this for a few years now with my mom visiting from New York and just so happens. I got this book this year and and then say you were going to be here. So it was a perfect time to get both of you in the booth together and just as a little background for who if you know for the listener, that would be that Maggie and Grand and had eight amazing children and there are 28 grandchildren from the eight children and the other six Picone siblings that we couldn't fit all in this booth include the two of you and then Uncle Steve and Liz and Mary uncle Ted Uncle James at Uncle John and we actually have a total of 72 of us in our immediate family and I just think that is so amazing and not everybody in the world can say

02:15 They are so close to their family that large and so I really just thought it was important to get this information, you know down in writing almost if you want to say and thank you for joining me. And I think my first question would be about Maggie and Grand and if it's all the 28 grandchildren called them to just give us a little background of how they met.

02:40 So my mom and dad both grew up in Philadelphia and actually went to different high schools, but boys Catholic and girls catholic and my mom actually went to school with my father's sister, but my mom and dad didn't really know each other until they met at the University of Pennsylvania, and they eventually became pinned which was a very big deal back then and then engaged and were married in 1952.

03:09 My father then she started working for IBM and with that we moved around a lot, which was just part of our family life for a long time. I am the second of Margaret and Dan's children the first daughter and I'll turn it over to Aunt Nancy and Lexie. I'm actually the third child of the second daughter. I think it's at I have a thing about Family Dynamics. And so the oldest child was a boy and then we have four girls in a row and then three boys were the four girls are very close. We always shared bedrooms and spend a lot of time together but to go back to Maggie in Grand Am

03:56 I don't know what else to say about them from those earlier years. We did move around a lot, but then eventually settled in New York. Larchmont New York actually in 1965, I believe and our family has been there ever since.

04:13 I know we still to this day Mom you live in Larchmont, Uncle Steve and Stephanie live in Larchmont and answer you just moved from Larchmont. So that's a big part of my years to go in the back every every time I need to go home want to go home. I got a large amount I go to Long Island. So I love going there and it's one of the most historic towns in New York for sure. So I guess another question would be growing up in Larchmont with eight siblings like a truly seven siblings when you guys were really Uncle John was born a little later. But how when you were growing up with these eight eight of you guys, how did You observe the love and the values that Maggie and Grand Anwar teaching you as you were growing up and then how did you also like feel the love and security from them being one of eight kids?

05:05 The quick question is a great question. I think that in my mind and my memories were of a very safe and protective home which allowed us to thrive as children. There was continuity there was structure there were rules but they were family events and opportunities that we had a chance to bond as a family and I believe that my parents had a mission that we were going to have to be have a intact healthy as much as we could family who cared about one another and it was by their example of how they treated each other and the respect they had for each other that it was assumed and I think also kind of put on us that you will respect one another and I think maybe cuz I was the oldest I took it very seriously.

06:05 And that is all that I remember as far as how you raise a family and I believe I took that into our least I try to take that into my own child-rearing later on. I think when you said about Safety and Security is probably the most important part for me that I took away from my childhood always always felt safe and I always felt like I mattered and I think that's hard to do in this 10 people in a house that you can feel like you are important and you matter and I think that some of that is because you knew that when my mother walked into the room that my father thought she was just the best thing in the whole world and same thing with mom and dad always looked at mom as if they were on their first date, you know, or

07:05 Are the wedding day or something like that and that trickles down the importance of making people feel like they matter and going back to you. But you said about making people feel like they matter both of my parents would take some time to spend one-on-one time with us and it was really based on our own interest. I mean from example for myself. I was running track when I was in 7th and 8th grade and my father randomly took me down to a big track meet in in New York City and I think back now and say, oh he left all those people behind and just took me there or our mom would take just the four girls shopping and we would spend the day we go out to lunch and we buy clothes and and how it started really was the big kids in the little guy by Steven Katherine and I were considered the big head. Right and the four because John wasn't born yet where the little kids are the big kid.

08:06 Got to go and ski trips and the little kids would go to a circus or something like that and we did that for a while. So they made a large family feel a little bit smaller and more intimate right? I ain't like that was just the five of us in that house up and around that time until I think that's how it started and I know right. I forgot that they did to that. They would break off one person to do something when I'm telling them when I'm whatever time you got felt like you were right or maybe I'm an only child. Just by yourself with one of them are the other thing. I don't want to really forget and I want to emphasize is our mom and dad had a very very strong Catholic belief and going to mass and saying prayers and celebrating our our rituals as Catholics and Christians.

09:06 It's very very important to them and they instill that in Us and how important it was and I to the stay still carry that with me and it's a very special feeling I have about my mom and dad about how important that was and how that shaped me as a person that also makes me think about dinner time because we always said our prayers before dinner during the Vietnam war. We began to Emily added the Hail Mary which I believe to this day. We all continue doing the Hail Mary because when we were at Gatherings and them outside are there, they're sort of look like what the hell Mary going to have to go back and think why it said, yes, it was then dinner. Also remind me when we used to go around the table and it was always about other people. So what talk about one nice thing you did for someone else today, and we literally would go around the table. We eat wood.

10:06 I turned talkin about our day. So I think we were heard right by it said it wasn't just a lot of voices all at the same time. We they made sure that we had a chance to be another were talking about in the starting to evoke memories and our parents were also very adamant about us having good manners and we used to have manners kind of classes and my parents would Mom and Dad would I'm teaches how to walk into a room and how to introduce ourselves and how to stand up when an adult walks in the room how to shake someone's hand out hand. That's one of my best memories of Brandon have my handshake. And so that was so important to them. I think sometimes people thought maybe it was a little extreme but I think it's something that you carry with you for the rest of your life how to present yourself in public to others regardless of what your job is or where you are and I know that leaves an impression on people

11:06 Tell me about your laid the foundation. I think that's perfect segue to talk about let you know when we were growing up everything you're talkin about is totally reminds me of how you raised us. And I'm sure Katie and Brian would say the same thing, but for me and Charlie and Laura, I looked back knowing that you know, realizing that all these those things that you were taught. You guys raised us to be like that and and I hope that my sister Laura is Raising her kids like that, which I think she is and when for you guys did it click that one adult when you were like, oh I'm going to raise my kids just like my parents raised up or over his house or did it just happen. Naturally. I don't think I ever thought about it just it was just in name is ingrained into range on you and I know Matt because he has the oldest grandchildren and when I start and they were my first grandchildren it was just with him. It was natural the way he was raising his kids the way how polite they were after dinner, you know.

12:06 And all those things that you can tell they were taught to do. So, I think it's just an 8 him. It's too awesome memories. I want to talk about with Megan Grand and also we didn't want to let everyone know that bathe Maggie passed away in 2006 and Grandma passed away in 1999. Mm. Sorry one of the best memories I know so my aunt Nancy's daughter Katie your daughter Katie is literally my best friend and like an older sister to me her and I are 9 months apart and never forget the day. I got a call from my mom. We're on downstairs Sarah. Can you come upstairs and talk to you on my phone? Why am I in trouble? I think I was a freshman in high school. Okay. So next week is Easter And My Gang Grandad would like to know if you and Katie would like to go to Paris for the week or it was like 2 weeks later or something. And I was what what what what he's talking about. So Maggie Gran decided that they wanted to start run.

13:06 Going with their grandchildren and Katie and I were the first people that got to benefit from it and continued on through the years and I know after Granddad had passed date started taking you guys in place of you know Grand and so I know Mom you went on one of the trips. Could you talk about what you did you are so I can see you can maybe talk about Brian and Matt how they got to go with Mom first. Actually. I want to bring up the chip that you and Katie. Because when Katie got back from that trip and she told me about how you to share the room and I think a double bed and how Maggie came in in the morning with a like a blanket or something and sort of put it on the bed and then spread out a breakfast of food and baguettes and things like that and Kati patang how awesome it was and how cool it was my feeling was she gets it.

14:06 She gets how something so simple and how Maggie can make it so special. That's what one of those chips is that story and then Brian and Matthew went with Mom right after dad had died. So Mom was not in a great place and I think she chose to take Vienna Matthew because at the time they were all mine was out of college, I think and Matthew was in college and so she knew it would be easy for her. So I don't think Brian and Matt got the best of where did they go home? They went to Paris, but they had a lovely time with her obviously and but it was probably very different than your experience and maybe your experience with Julian friend. So then a few years later my youngest brother John was living in Paris. And so I think that was a great place for my mama to go so if use later,

15:06 Mom got the idea. She wanted to start back up again. And she decided she would take again to grandchildren from different families and then a daughter first from a different family. So you're would not be traveling with your own children. So I was the first one to have the honor of going and I went with two of my nieces Franny and Julia and we went to Paris and it was just a wonderful. I got to share a room with my mom and it was a wonderful opportunity for me to spend one-on-one time with my mom and go see Paris again through her eyes and with my brother, they're all so it was great to be with him. So I'm that was the first trip and then I think she went on one more probably add that they lived there for five years by the Imagine Grand Am so paranoid was a very special place for them. I thought that's why would they took them to power-level they wanted to

16:06 Early and they went for about ten lucky guy. That was also a very special Ireland. So Mom is after Granddad had passed away and she rented a house right on the on the water not right on the water. But you could access the water was a friend of hers house and for two weeks and I went flu with Maggie and rented a car. She said you was the Rent-A-Car because I'm too old to dry. They won't let us rather bars. So I had to drive the car on the wrong side of the road and I spent a week there and my cousin joined us and my brother Ted and his wife and children came and that was a very special and I think she really enjoyed that situation. I think a week later some other people came. I'm not sure how I thought that was great that inspired you to then do your Villa in Italy that one summer? Yeah.

17:06 And the and they kind of pass that on to us, which I think that is easy for us to say all of us. I mean the other story I was at the other great memory that we talked about was

17:22 Grandad had gotten a rowing shell for the UPenn rowing team dedicated to him. And I remember he was too sick to go to the booty call Boat christening almost our entire family decided to go and I remember being on the Schuylkill in Philly at that boat house watch it, like watching the ceremony and thinking like first of all there so many of us here the thing that it might the dock my sink in the water, but then just how amazing it was that they were honoring him with this, you know his name on the side of a boat and like breaking the champagne and that he couldn't be there but it was it was amazing that we all could so the beginning of that story really is when he started throwing at UPenn. He wrote in a shell of eight from the boat house down on this Google and they were quite good quite good. I think they got to the Olympic trials. I think that's the one year and the what was the race in London that they just missed out on the head.

18:22 Yes, exactly. And then Dad did not enroll for many many many years, but then and I don't know why he went back but he went back to rowing and began rowing with some of the same man that he rode with Advil pain and they were called Master Growers and I went to many of his mates. How old was he when he did that he was in his early sixties or All Join hands and it was amazing that the one man that rode with him. His legs did not work very well and they literally would lower him into the boat because his arms still worked that one of them said some of his own butt so he began rowing and they went to London. They went back to the lien Road and then they vote in Prague and they rode in Spain to I thought and they were very good. They went very all of them, but you tell the story so they want many many metals beautiful.

19:22 Battles that heavy weapon Metals remember seeing those and after Grande and died mom started giving out one metal to anyone in the family who accomplished accomplished is what Dad stood for was working hard achieving a goal and getting there and sometimes even not getting there. But if you worked hard it wasn't about reaching the goal. It was about working towards the goal life. And so she started giving out of metal his metal and I was lucky enough to get one because I went back to college after many many years of not going to college and finally finished when I was 40 something. I remember now. I'm at my graduation. She she gave me this end of one of his metal so that the rowing part was a big part of our family, especially in the end Grand and was sick with cancer.

20:21 When he was growing and has like six months after he know not even that was that was April. The boat dedication was in April and dad was in the hospital and bread had called them had it on the phone so Dad could listen to the dedication and he died about four weeks later, but he didn't know the boat was dedicated and she actually tape recorded a thank you speech that. We played over the microphone at the at that dedication saw the rowing was a big part of our story about the accomplishment feel part of it the hard work because the other great thing about when he enacted the grain band Ramen challenge, what do you think? You're going to get in the classes? Are you sure that you think you're going to get Abby? Why don't you think you're going to get all the

21:21 Hard not to think you need to aim higher always encouraging us. How many at one time did he have any have a point system system and you would make money and you'd make money you sent him the report card grades and then he would look at how you set your goals. Did you reach them? He'd give you extra points if you set your goal and didn't reach it and then yes, you can get a little check in the mail. I need a good guy and he literally would like to sit down and probably had like a book. Oh, yeah. I didn't know he did. We stop hurting those papers after he died. We went to the boxes in I love that. The other thing that I have always observed about you guys as the AWS siblings cuz my husband is one of eight and the same breakdown with 4 and 4, which is amazing is that have a big family is like to help

22:21 All of you are and how close you still are and even going through both of your parents passing away staying so strong as a family unit to this day. Is there a secret to that or what? Can you say, you know, just anything about that and how special that is.

22:42 Started that foundation and wanting what's best for each other which also goes back to you know, Christian values and I think that we needed after my dad died. We all look like swarmed around my mom and really, you know, tried to help and take care of her and then she didn't he taken care of but just being considerate of you know, how difficult things were for her and and then when she was Ill with cancer how we all rallied and we all took turns coming and visiting that was amazing. I was amazed I have to say that was amazing. It was Ted's coming for 2 weeks and it would give myself and Nancy and says you were there if they are going to be in front of people.

23:42 Always think of it as it was such a gift to be able to do that and to realize you know that Mom was the Forefront and she was the most important thing and I just think that it was again a gift to have experienced that as difficult as that was that I try to explain that to people that was a gift that my parents gave us safe not for them cuz they both right died too suffered, but it was a gift to us that we were able to say, goodbye and that we had this opportunity from me. It was an honor to be able to care for both of them mom more than Dad dad was in hospice, which was the right decision at the time for both Mom and Dad. Mom said that she felt so blessed that she had that time to sit with him and not be I want to hear.

24:42 However, when it was Mom's turn, she said absolutely not I don't want hospice or outside and so she stayed at home and just like Catherine said we rallied around her and were able to take care of her and it was just a blessing that was and this is a very nice to walk all the time in Sochi. We went out for our evening walk and we stopped by to see Mom the caretaker at that point in the house and we walked upstairs for bedroom. She was she was in bed and she looked as she says what are you two doing here? Cuz you got and she waves her little hand just like really helping her room or something. She did not want us fighting over her exactly. You have to leave you have to like that kind of going back to that whole thing after.

25:42 And after mom died, and now we have an estate and my parents had accumulated wonderful Treasures from their travels and they also had a lot of things that had absolutely no monetary value, but had a lot of sentimental value and we had the fortune of having someone actually my parents had made plans on certain things had to be sold in certain things have to be this in this way and we had in the whale that everything was to be split and one of that was everything in the house at 88 weighs 8/8 ways that a children living in all different states all across the country. So the way it was set up with someone came and a praise all the top ticket items and we all gathered on a on a Saturday or Sunday. I can't even remember cocktail party. We had a cocktail party. No stylist has no spouses, right? It was just a eight of us and my aunt who was on my mother Sister Mary Ellen who was one of these

26:42 Actresses of the well, and obviously that should say and we do numbers and we all had we had around and be around of you got to pick. So if you were the number one, you need a list of everything in the house and I don't know I wanted that. Okay, so amazing and the order so that you know, people always got to be the first bright and we just pretty much divvied up everything as he went along. I've never tried one time calling Susan on the phone saying Susan we think that's what should I do next, but I'm just laughing cuz I can wear that come from and why was that so easy? I'll tell you why it was so easy because growing up if there was one hamburger left over my mother would cut that into eight pieces because

27:42 Always no one ever got more than anyone else. It was always divided equally, so that's probably why we were able to do this, right it is I just stick to the hamburger on a plate for some reason I'm going back to the opposite of you can have that in the wooden salad bowl on the wooden things that were important to them and when it was all said and done there was not an angry word. That was spoken. Not an Agony all less with more than we ever could possibly need and the things that we took as our first or second are still the two most important things that I'm glad that I do and then the things that we're not as important that I got for whatever reason there's just so important because then you realize

28:42 At Mom and Dad having their stuff. It's just stuff is just stuff but it was such a great it to me. It just showed how much we respected our parents because they would have never they would have never accepted us having any kind of argument over who gets to have that lamp. Like I said, they would have been they would have been hard horrified and that's there is no reason for us to do that. And that was how much we felt about her parents is it be respected them so much that is amazing, but they respected us. I think when you feel respected feel like I matter after you go right back to that again about was Grandma Bakker and household Maggie's mom your grandmother how her passing affected Maggie and how talk a little about like, how have you observe that?

29:38 So Grandma Grandpa Bakker lived around the corner from Grandma and Grandpa Picone growing up. So we lived in New York. They lived in Upper Darby. They lived forever far enough away that you have to be a certain age before you could walk around walk from one grandparents house to the other grandparents house and so off we go down the New Jersey Turnpike with all of us crammed into the station wagon. And you never know. If you were going to wind up at Grandma and Grandpa cones or Grandma and Grandpa. They were very different ways. And so Grandma has a great pasta and the homemade wine and all of that breakfast and lunch not so much she would take she would take cold cuts out of the freezer or that would be in whack you put it on Wonder Bread or something. How about Grandma Barker's house was scrambled eggs and the cinnamon buns and look slim cakes and Scrabble.

30:38 Do you have these great breakfast but then dinner was boiled chicken and boiled potatoes. That was really funny. Both ways. So we live far from them New York to Philly. So we didn't see them on a regular basis, but we always saw them for holidays. We would go down and spend a few days with them. So as it or they would come up right but so as a child we did get to know them in it and a wonderful way and Grandma Bakker mom's mother was maybe 5 foot 2 and mom was 6 feet tall. She was Tiny Little Women and full. She was the Energizer Bunny just as full of life and joy and get married and having is all right, and she died suddenly of the day after Christmas at our house the day before the night before Christmas night. I'll never forget. I still remember the dresser to give you for Christmas and

31:38 Pentagon with Christmas and we were dancing The Jig she was full of life and she had a massive stroke the next morning on her way back to Philly. She was getting dressed because she had to go back to work. She was still working full-time, but she was only 63 was 63 years old. She had a massive stroke and I remember we all got Usher how the house and that was probably the first life-changing event for me as a child. Mostly because not just losing my grandmother. I was only I think 9 I was nine and but how my mother about the loss of her mother for her? I don't think ever what do I know? She's coming up to the day. She dies know her better mother was a very very special special woman. Her father was a very tall German man, who was so sweet and so great but more reserved.

32:37 And I remember he would come up and stay with us after grandma died to get to know him a different way to buy himself. Right? But that was Ivan. We got robbed and then we got robbed from his mom and dad dying so early too early, but early enough that they were full of life. Absolutely out. They weren't ready to go, bye-bye. I didn't mean to leave. They said it was the same kind of effect that and see my mother and what that did to her how difficult that was and I look back now that I'm 63 exactly that that was like, yeah. I know I don't get the point of me bringing you guys here is cuz I want the world to know about Maggie and Grand.

33:37 What about you guys? And I'm so honored to be a part of this family. And just how else do you think that the legend of or the end of the story of Maggie and Grand and live on their message, you know for 4 years to come. I just want to say that I'm one of the things that we've done based on my mom and her brother and her sister as we started family reunions with the boxer hold and pecan family and we just had one of our reunions this past summer and that is to me part of the legend and the gift because it needed is 72 of us came off from my mother and father but beyond that of the family reunions on one of my sisters lives has had was inspired to collect stories from all of us that we had of our memories of our parents and so our goal and our hope is to publish nothing to publish but to put down in writing some kind of book so we can pass on to

34:37 I love you stories that we have of our great memories of them in last full year in the fall. We went down to Maryland and sit in the house together 8th of us with some spouses and spent a good time planning and talking about but this book's going to look like and we've had some stops and starts but it is definitely something that's in in the work. So that's one very determined. So as sure it will get by. It's it's hard to do but I think with Liz chill push and products and and we'll get it done. At least you could have said something but I think example is really what we have passed down and I believe we're passing down and hopefully passing them to the great grandchildren because I don't want to know how many great-grandchildren my head really quickly. I forgot more like 15 or 17 or something like that.

35:37 Account, so I did figure it out. The book thing would be amazing. I think it's amazing that you guys are the ones telling it the 8th write a piece of each of you and everybody stories and perspective is different. So that was really fun to do that. So it's really starting to start thinking about you no good memories and you know things about Mom and Dad and I think it is important to keep her memory alive. And I think they would also be very embarrassed because of the Neighbors on the ball and I will like that other was also a very graceful person and she buries herself that way and very classy very classy and I really try to live my life that way too. So she's been a wonderful she has been

36:37 Was a wonderful role model for me. And you know, it's thank you so much for just the idea of doing this and I also there is a reason and I love coming to visit you down here in the land of the free and a wonderful husband, and I'm so happy that I live in the same day that is moving to Georgia and get to spend time with you said thanks so much for doing is awesome. But on that new Vol 27 28 of you have really established and the age range is ridiculous. Like 40-something Channel 277 or something like Kites on days all been, you know, they've been developing relationships with each other and I give you guys a lot of credit for that because you have to work at it just as we work on our way.

37:37 Friendships and that's why we make Mom and Dad. Oh my God. They do you feel the same about you?