Chantale Niyonkuru and Sara Skinner

[00:01] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Hi. My name is Chantale Niyonkuru I am 23 years old. Today's date is Wednesday, August 10, 2022. Location is Boise, Idaho, and I'm here today with Sara Skinner. She is my friend and also my colleague.

[00:19] SARA SKINNER: And I'm Sara Skinner. I'm 49. Today's date is Wednesday, August 10, 2022. We're in Boise, Idaho, and I'm here with Chantal Niyonkuru who is my friend and my colleague. And I really appreciate you being willing to come with me today. Chantal, we were preparing our presentation for the public schools a couple weeks ago, and we had such a great conversation about your story and all the really rich experiences that you've had. And I came away from it really excited. I texted my sister, my mom, and my friend. I just said, I'm working with this amazing woman. And so when I heard about storycorps, I thought it would be so great to come here with you and for your story to be recorded as part of. As part of our national archives and stuff. So thank you for being willing to try this. So I want to just start out kind of with some of your early memories. Your dad is from the Congo, your mom is from Burundi, and you were born in a refugee camp in Tanzania. Is that right?

[01:38] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yes.

[01:39] SARA SKINNER: So tell me a little bit about your life in Africa before you moved here. What are a few of your early memories?

[01:47] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Um, great question, Sara Um, Africa was amazing, and maybe it's because I was younger or maybe because we didn't have technology, but I remember just having, like, the most fun of my life. It was just every time I look back, I'm like, wow, I haven't had so much fun like I did when I was back home. My earliest memory isn't as great because, obviously, to get here to America, my family and I went through some, you know, changes. One that I remember very clearly is before we had to. Before we had to go to, I think I told you about how we had to move from where we were staying and then to another camp. We experienced, you know, chaos and just gunshots, and it wasn't safe anymore, and so we had to move to, like, a different camp. And there we filed papers to come to the US. And so the process takes. It can take a year to two, three, four years. And I think we were there for probably two years, maybe more. I can't remember. But I do remember that we were supposed to actually come to America a year before 2007. Right. But the thing is, in Africa, there's always, like, I don't know, weird energy. People aren't always happy for you. You'll hear that people go through, like, witchcraft or, like, you know, they get poisoned or some people die before they even come to the US. And unfortunately, literally, like, a day before we were to, you know, move and come to the US, my dad has sold everything that we owned. And when we went to the airport, I was sick with, like, I don't know what. It was like, an illness. My cheeks were, like, very puffy. And so they turned us back and said, you can't come until we figure out what's wrong with you. And so I was admitted to the hospital for months. And then finally, when I was discharged and ready to come back home, we had this kidney. It was like, a friend, my mom's friend kid. He brought a drink to say, hey, we're sorry that you're in the hospital. You're not feeling well, but you're getting better, so here you go. And so this kid came over, and, you know, when you're little, you don't know how to lie. So as he was getting ready to go back home, my mom was like, oh, since you traveled all the way this way, why don't you take a sip of this drink, and then you can go back? And this kid was like, I can't. My mom told me not to. And my mom and my dad were like, wait, why? Why doesn't your mom want to. Want you to, you know, drink from this? He didn't say anything. So when the kid returned, my dad was like, okay, I'm gonna go outside and see what this is about. So he poured the drink on the grass, and I don't know if there were chemicals in it or I don't know what it was, but the grass turned colors and kind of, like, shriveled up. So, honestly, I feel like that was just, like, a miracle for me, because I don't know what could have happened to me. My mom, my dad. We have these incidents happen all the time when people are getting ready to leave and start a change. People envy and things happen. So, yeah, that's the earliest memory.

[05:47] SARA SKINNER: Wow. Wow. So people were jealous that you had this opportunity to come to the United States? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[05:55] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: At least from, you know, what I experienced, it seems like, you know, they didn't want us to come.

[06:02] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. So. Well, thanks for sharing those. I think it could be kind of painful to share some of these memories. So I think you're being brave talking about it. So you came to Idaho with your family as a refugee when you were eight. Right. What was it like to move to Idaho? What do you remember from those first years?

[06:30] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Okay, so coming here is like a whole nother story itself. Very funny. But finally, when we got to the US, we were excited for the new change. And, you know, we were told that America is, you know, it's. You have this dream, right? It's like this american dream. Like, oh, this is going to be great. The people are going to be so nice and, like, very lovely and welcoming, and, you know, we dream about how there's money on trees, you know? And so when we got here, we were like, oh, this looks just like where we're coming from, you know, so nothing really different. Just, you know, we have a whole ton of lights and more buildings, but nothing so different. But when we first got here, yeah, I remember just being excited, and then the excitement didn't last for too long because, you know, I was hit with reality. The people aren't so nice, and it's not as welcoming because my first few years when I went to Franklin Elementary, I just experienced very odd, you know, behaviors towards me. I would have, like, little white girls and boys, like, scratch on my skin to see if, like, the brown on my. The brown of my skin color, if it come off or nothing. And so I remember that being just really weird and not making sense. And I also, as a little girl, I didn't really know how to take good care of myself, and I just wish I had somebody to come and say, hey, so, you know, and just talk to me about hygiene in the most nicest way possible. But I didn't experience that either, because I was also dragged to, like, the nurse's office to be cleansed with a brown paper towel and sweat it with deodorant. And I just remember feeling so dirty and gross. I hated the skin I was in. It was. It was. It just felt very unwelcoming. The people were. Yeah, just not nice people. Also, after a couple of years went by, I just remember some mean people. Like, I remember being chased by a dog, and purposefully, I would see the owner unleash their dog and, like, tell it to chase after me. But luckily, I always was on my bike, so I was able to, like, outrun or if. How do you say it, out? Chase the dog. But, yeah, I remember weird things like that. But then, you know, it's just some closed minded people, because it's not everybody in America or in Idaho who have that heart, because later on, I got to meet really amazing people and. Yeah.

[09:35] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. Well, as a native Idahoan. I'm really embarrassed for my state that that's the way that we welcomed you. I'm kind of ashamed. I know I wasn't there at that moment, but I would like to think that we would be more welcoming and more and kinder than that. So I'm really sorry that that happened. I get a little teared up hearing you talk about it because that's. It seems so cruel, especially on the part of the nurse at your school and the people who really could have made better decisions about how to show kindness to a little girl, you know?

[10:24] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. Thank you.

[10:27] SARA SKINNER: So I'm sorry. So things were really hard in the beginning, but eventually you became an excellent student. Like, what made the difference for you?

[10:42] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Hmm.

[10:43] SARA SKINNER: I know you've said that, like, in the beginning, the teacher kind of just put you at the back of the class and didn't try to engage you with the other students in learning. Just had you call it like, color coloring book pages and things.

[10:57] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: I'm glad you remember that because I totally forgot to mention how, you know, being in the classroom was also another really weird experience because I didn't, I never really felt like I was part of, you know, the classroom discussion because, like you said, we were. I was just always at the back of the class doodling or messing around with myself and the person I was with at that time. So I never really felt. Yeah. Included. But, yeah, later on, as I mentioned, some people are very nice and kind hearted and some aren't. And so when I met, you know, different teachers who helped me, you know, it made a huge difference. I don't know if. Do you mean, like in school, like, who made the difference or just in general?

[11:45] SARA SKINNER: Either one, whatever.

[11:46] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: You.

[11:47] SARA SKINNER: Yeah, probably both.

[11:48] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah.

[11:49] SARA SKINNER: Yeah.

[11:49] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: I think just in general, it's always, you know, the little things that people do for you. It could be a smile when you walk past them or you can tell when somebody is being genuine and when somebody truly want to get to know you. And I think, you know, the people who have made the most impact in my life are those people who just don't really want anything in return but really want to be my friend. And so in school, I had teachers who, you know, took the effort to actually get to know me and build a relationship with me and teachers who acknowledged, you know, my brain and just the work I was putting into because it's not hard being like a third culture child. It's really not. I mean, it's not easy. So when you have teachers who can acknowledge that and reinforce you know, what? You've been, you know, like, the good things that you're doing and, you know, encouraging you to keep trying your hardest and working hard. It just. It makes all the difference. Yeah. And I've had just a lot of great people, like Michelle, shout out if you're listening to this. She, you know, when we got here to America, she basically. She's like my mom, really, my second mom. She has always been there for me. And when the world was nasty or the people that I encountered were nasty, she basically. She, like, took the stereotype. She, like, broke that stereotype for me because I always felt like white people were, you know, not so nice. And then when I met her, I was like, oh, my God, it's not every white person. So.

[13:37] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. Well, I hope that Michelle has a chance to hear this, and, you know, I'm sure she feels a lot of gratitude for the connection with you, too.

[13:49] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. It's always really people who just take the time out of their busy schedule to say, wow, you're new to America. What can I do to make your transition easier? Even though it's not, and even in school, it's very needed. When teachers recognize you and approach you and, you know, help in the best way possible. And it doesn't have to be a big, you know, a big gesture. It can just be something very small.

[14:22] SARA SKINNER: So is there a specific teacher you remember who. Who made a difference for you? Because it sounds like that early teacher who you had in elementary school was terrible, but maybe there's someone else who you remember who was important.

[14:38] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. The funny thing is, I don't even remember how she looks like because she was just so bad that I, like, deleted her out of my memory. But I have so many great teachers that helped me along the way. I like to look back to my junior high teacher because he basically paved, like, the way for me. In a way, Mister Warden was pretty old, and he was getting to the point where he needs to retire. And I think he retired that same year that I had him or after. But Mister Ward was the teacher who acknowledged that I was, you know, working hard and that I could do it. He. Mister Warden told me that I was smart. He. He encouraged me, and I grew up not, you know, believing in myself. I really thought that school wasn't for me either, because, you know, when you grow up with parents who don't really think that you're fit for school, you know, because you're a woman, and in an african, you know, culture, women aren't really looked up to as like, educate educators. Is that the right way to say it? Like, they don't believe that a woman can achieve an education and go far with it because they think that women are, you know, you know, they're made to be in the kitchen to cook and, you know, tend to babies and have families. They don't really, you know, I mean, that's it in my culture. So I just kind of grew up believing that maybe, yeah, like my father always say, maybe school isn't for me and maybe I'm not smart enough to be in school. So when finally, you know, when Mister Ward, you know, said that I was smart and acknowledged the hard work I was putting in his class, and when he sat down and I spoke to me, I seriously believed him because, you know, he is a teacher and teachers are wise, and I just believed him when he said that I was smart. And so, yeah, Mister Ward, wow.

[17:10] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. And fast forward to this spring where you just graduated from Boise State University, which is amazing.

[17:18] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah, no, seriously, I feel like, and the reason, like I said, the reason I always go back to junior highs because I feel like if I hadn't, you know, sat down with Mister Ward, I wouldn't really be here today. Because, you know, high school is not easy. It's not meant for kids who are so confused. I mean, maybe, but, like, in my position, especially being a third culture child, it's like you don't really survive in high school if you don't, if you don't have people who support you and if you don't even believe it yourself. It's like, how do you make it so, you know, junior high was definitely like, you know, like the most important time of my life. And him having, you know, just being there and basically propelling me to, you know, move forward was. Yeah.

[18:11] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. And you've done so many things that nobody would have expected, right?

[18:17] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. I proved to my dad that I'm a woman and I can graduate and have a degree and go to school and be everything, you know, that I want to be. I don't have to, you know, just be a mom, even though that's super cool. Right. But, like, I can also be a student or a teacher if I want to, so. Yeah, I definitely did that.

[18:41] SARA SKINNER: So, great. So I'm curious, when you think about what traditions from your family heritage you would want to pass on to your kids, if you have kids, which ones you might want to keep, which things from your family or your traditions, and then if there's anything you would want to do differently.

[19:10] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: So in my culture, I don't know if you've ever heard of this. We do dowries. Have you?

[19:17] SARA SKINNER: Yeah.

[19:17] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: So to outsiders, they would think maybe dowries is like, selling your daughter. It's not. It's really just honoring your parents for, you know, raising you and bringing you this far. And so I definitely want that to, you know, even. And it doesn't have to be, like, a significant amount of money. It's just, you know, dowry. Like, if I want to give my child away, I wanna. I don't know, I wanna keep that alive because it is part of our culture, and it's, you know, it's honoring your parents. I definitely don't want to treat my girls like how I was treated because, yeah, in my culture, men don't really have to do a lot. They don't have to sacrifice a whole lot. But women, I feel like we just. We sacrifice way too much. And, like, for example, I basically grew up cooking, taking care of my niece and nephew at a very young age when my brother, who's older than me, could have done that. So I just don't want to have those gender roles. Like, I feel like in my home, I want my kids to feel like they're equal. You know, I don't want my girls to ever feel like they have to be the mother, they have to be the caretaker when they have older brothers. So.

[20:49] SARA SKINNER: Yeah, yeah, I remember you saying that when you were growing up in Africa, even when you were five and six, you were already doing.

[20:58] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yes. Yeah. You have to fetch woods for the fire or fetch water, you know? And so you grow up at a very, like, young age because you just have all these responsibilities. You'll have, you'll see a little kid, five years old, with a bucket on his head filled with water. So it's. Yeah, like, you just grow up fast, especially women. So, yeah, so when I was. When I got here to America, you would assume, oh, you don't have to do that anymore. Oh, no, I was, you know, still doing. I mean, yeah, I didn't have to go fetch water, but I was feeding my niece and nephew and I was taking care of them, and I didn't really have to cook a whole lot when I was younger, but I definitely had to do a lot of the other chores in the house while my brothers sit and, you know, watch tv. Wow.

[21:55] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. That would make me angry, I think.

[21:58] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: It's not fair. It's really not. So I definitely don't want that to, you know, continue.

[22:05] SARA SKINNER: So what was it like trying to balance the work from school because you were in difficult classes, you know, you were a good student. So the work from high school or junior high with having responsibilities at home, like, what did that look like on a. In your day?

[22:24] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: So when I was a little bit, like, I want to say in elementary, junior high, I was taking care of, like, my niece and nephew because my sister and her husband worked long hours. So while I. So because I had. I had, well, not had because I still have them. I have two older. No, three older sisters and then two brothers. I'm the youngest in my family. But when my sister graduated, when one of my sisters graduated from high school, she got married. So she was already kind of, like, not part of that household anymore. So then. And then I already had my older sister, who already has kids and a husband. So then I. We were just two girls left in the house. And so my older sister couldn't go and take care of my sister's kids because she had to take care of people at home. So because, you know, I am a lady, I had to go and take over my sister's when she was working long hours. So basically, when I was done with school, I'd come home, change, go to my sister's house, and stayed there until she got home because my mom is a little bit handicapped, so she can't watch kids for a very long time. So when I got home, I pick up the kids and then go to my sister's, feed them, change diapers, clean, all that, and then go back home, maybe try to do homework and then go to bed. And so I was doing that for, like, a good year. And so it was always really hard for me to balance school life and then fast forward to, like, three, four years ago. It got harder because I got older and I can cook and I can drive and I work and braid hair. So all of a sudden, I just had all these other things that I had to do besides school. So, you know, work and school. I mean, home and school was just very, like, shaky for me. So if I'm not in school, I'm home cooking, driving my mom around, or serving my dad's guests or braiding my sisters or her kids. So it's never really, you know, it's never like I never really get free time because I'm always doing all these other things and work. And so when it's finally time to, you know, focus on school, it's either super late or I just don't really have time. So, yeah, just the privilege to focus on just school is really? Never mind. I'm just always working, working. And it's gotten so normal for me that sometimes I don't even notice that I'm constantly working. Yeah.

[25:17] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. You said to me once that your parents also rely on you because you have such good English skills and you have such high level of education that you even end up, like, helping them with bills and things like that.

[25:30] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Oh, all the time. All the time. It's. It's, um. How do. It's, like, almost. It's like a. I want to say a given, but I don't know the right way to say it. But, like, when people already, like, expect you to do something for them because, you know, you're a kid and you're supposed to. So it's like, my dad doesn't even have to ask me twice, and he never really, you know, gives. He never gives me a heads up. It's always like, hey, come fill out this paperwork today. I'm probably at work, but I have to do that because, you know, I have to respect my parents. So it's. Yeah, I definitely, on a day to day basis, if he calls me over, hey, you need to fill out this paperwork. I have to go and do that. Oh, you need to write up a check for bills. I have to go and do that. My mom, she does this a lot. Oh, you need to come and read mail and translate it for me and then maybe help set my appointments. I have to do that. So, you know, I'm not really complaining, but it's also, like, it's a lot. It's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot. It's like having a second job, really, to take care of my parents.

[26:39] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. And do you think your teachers had any, have had any idea of how much work you were doing for your family?

[26:48] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Oh, come on. They wouldn't. Especially at a young age, 1213. They didn't know that I was doing what I was doing, and so when I would come to school tired, they just want to blame it on, oh, you stayed up. You're very irresponsible or something like that because they don't know what I have to do back at home, so, yeah, they never. They never knew. And even in college, when I was, like, struggling, most teachers never knew that what I was going through. But it's, you know, just the very. The one or two teachers that always, you know, like, read into things, and they actually can read your energy. They're like, hey, are you okay? But it's not all professors who care about you. Know, what you got going on on the outside. They just want you to do the work and turn it in.

[27:39] SARA SKINNER: So, yeah, so it's kind of a miracle that you were able to not only graduate from high school and get all that worked on with the responsibilities you had at home, but then go on to graduate from college. Like, how did you do that? I just don't know how a human being can actually pull off all the work that you've done.

[27:59] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Sara I wanted it so bad, and I think it's really because I wanted to also prove to my dad that I'm more than what he thinks I am. He can't just put me in a box. And so that motivated me so much to work hard and strive because I wanted it, not just for me, but to also prove to him and also my community that they can do it. You can get your education, your degree, and do big things. So, yeah, you have to have that dedication and desire and passion. So that's how I got through it. And, yeah, I'm here today sitting across from you.

[28:40] SARA SKINNER: Yeah, well, it's just. I just think very few people would have that kind of perseverance and drive to push through such a difficult, difficult process.

[28:52] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: And you know what? Teachers don't also know that kids, especially kids from, like, you know, a different country coming in, they don't really have support at home. Like, some parents don't even know what a GPA is or, you know, they probably know what, okay, you need an a in class, but they don't. They don't know, like, things related to school. So I always found myself just kind of, like, figuring out things on my own and if I had a bad grade or not, my parents didn't know that. All they cared about was, she's going to school. Right? So it's like, teachers don't know that even at home. Like, same way that we are at school. Like, when we don't have that support, they need to also know that we don't have support at home either. So, yeah, it's not easy to do school. It's seriously not easy. And, yeah, it takes a. Somebody who really wants it so bad to, like, you know, seek out help and just go for it.

[29:56] SARA SKINNER: I know you're working now with a youth program, and as you were talking, I was thinking how lucky those kids are to have you as a role model of someone who has been through the same thing as they're living through and has had that experience of being a refugee and being, you know, a third culture kid and making it being able to graduate from college, like, I feel like that's so inspiring for people to see.

[30:23] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah, I specifically just want to work with youth because I know growing up, you know, when you have social workers come in and work with your kids and, you know, as a kid, I was just sitting there, like, waiting to see if somebody will talk to me, you know, Chantale what do you want? You know, and nobody ever approached me because I'm a kid. So when I went to school for social work, I said, you know what? I don't want to be that social worker who doesn't acknowledge the kid in the room. And so working with youth has always been my passion, and I hope that, you know, it's something that I'll continue to do because kids are important and they are at a stage in life where they need the most help. And so, yeah, I. Yeah, so tell me about that.

[31:12] SARA SKINNER: What are your dreams for the future? And it doesn't have to be necessarily professional or school related. It can be anything, like anything that you just have as a hope or a dream for yourself or for your family, for your community, whatever. Just your hopes and dreams for the future.

[31:34] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Hopes and dreams of. I have a lot, but right now I'm working on just becoming a better version of myself so that I can help people. I don't know how to say the word correctly. I think it's called cultural broker. And I want to be that because I think a lot of people want to help, you know, people different from them, but they don't really understand how to help those folks. And so I just want to, you know, immerse myself in different cultures and learn about different people, groups, individuals, so that I, so that I can, you know, help maybe reduce some conflicts and produce change to different groups. So that's definitely, like a hope and dream for me, like, you know, for the near future and. Yeah, I'll see where that goes and continue to dream. Yeah.

[32:40] SARA SKINNER: So if you, you know, you're talking about, I think you're already a cultural broker, but if you could, if you could make us, your fellow Idahoans or your fellow Americans or the people around you, if you could help us help people understand one thing, what would it be?

[33:00] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Good question. Oh, my gosh.

[33:03] SARA SKINNER: Or if there's two things or three things, that's okay, too.

[33:08] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: If I could help anybody understand anything is, like I just mentioned, do not ignore the young kids. They are our future. So I think it's so important to not ignore the youth, but embrace them, get to know them and help them. And so I think that's. And, you know, also understand that they come with trauma, especially kids from different cultures. Just because they're a kid doesn't mean they don't have trauma. So I think it's. I really want people to understand that, like, trauma comes in all forms and it doesn't, you know, it doesn't select which age it affects. So, yeah, people. I just want people to understand, like, if you see somebody on the street, a young girl, boy, just be kind, because you don't know the bottles that they're fighting.

[34:12] SARA SKINNER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so much that we don't know when we meet someone, what their story might be.

[34:22] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah.

[34:23] SARA SKINNER: And if I sometimes wonder, like, what the best way is to, like, I see someone and I want to reach out and be friendly. But I was wondering what you think the best way is to do that, because I remember you saying that it's hard when people ask you where you're from. Like, what do you like? If that's a typical thing that Americans will say, like, hey, where are you from? As a way to sort of get to know someone. So maybe if you could just talk a little bit about what your reaction is when people ask that question and if there's a better way to talk to people.

[34:56] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah, no, that's a good question. And it's hard because sometimes if, you know, if people ask me, hey, where are you from? It's like, well, what makes you think I'm not from here? So it's, you know, you can never be too careful. But I think, you know, the proper way to approach someone is just be friendly, like, smile. And then, you know, it could be like, hey, I like your shoes. You can start off with just that. You don't have to say, hey, where you from? So I think if. And people can read energy. So if you come with, you know, energy that says, oh, I just, I want to get something from you. Like, you know, I'm approaching you because it benefits me. I feel like we can always sense it. So if you're just genuine and you truly want to get to know somebody, it's not that hard, I think. How did you do it? How did you get to know me? You know, like, it's just being genuine and actually showing interest in that person rather than, oh, this is, you know, to benefit me or to check a mark or whatever. Right. So, yeah, I don't think that answers your question, but, no, it's a good.

[36:10] SARA SKINNER: Thing to think about. And when you think about yourself and you answer that question, not for other people, but for yourself. Like, when people say, where are you from? Or kind of, when you think about, where do I belong? How do you answer that for yourself? Not the stranger who's introducing themselves at a party, but, like, for you.

[36:31] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: I remember recently, actually, we had, like, a conference. Do you remember the name of it? A PSU. It was, like a two day conference. And in one of the presentation, a girl says that when she's asked where she's from, she feels like. She feels. What's the word?

[37:00] SARA SKINNER: Like, divided, confused.

[37:02] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: No, no, no. She feels offended. Like, I don't. I want to say excluded, but not really. I forgot the word, but, like, that's how I feel, too. Like, if you approach me and say, like, hey, where are you from? It's like, okay. It just basically means, I guess I'm not. You know, I'm not the same as you are, different people, and I just feel excluded. Like, oh, what if I. You know, what if I am from here and you're asking it? So, like, what makes you think that I can be part of you? So it's that feeling, like, oh, so I am different, you know? So when people ask me that, it's like, oh, wow, I really am different. Yeah. I mean, nothing wrong with being different. I embrace it. It's just sometimes, you know, you want to feel included and a part of something.

[37:53] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. And if you think about it, like, you have lived in Idaho longer than you've lived anywhere else.

[38:01] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah.

[38:01] SARA SKINNER: Right?

[38:02] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I want to say I'm american, but then I'm like, oh, my God, what are people gonna think? You know? Like, what are my fellow Africans? What are they gonna think? Right? If I say I'm american, it's like I'm rejecting who I am, but it's like, really, I can be both. I can be african. I can be american. And so. Oh, it's such an interesting world for me.

[38:27] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. Yeah. And you can. You can be both. You can be african and american and a woman and a scholar and a professional and a friend and a colleague and all of those things.

[38:41] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yes. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[38:44] SARA SKINNER: Yeah. Well, Chantal, I'm so grateful for you being willing to share your story with me. I think when I ask people, where are you from? What I really want to know is, what's your story like? Tell me about your story. Because I learned so much from hearing your story and other people's stories. It just makes my life so much richer.

[39:14] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Yeah. I mean, when it's coming from a genuine face, I feel like it's easier to respond to that question. It's just people who aren't so genuine that ask you that and people who will tell you, go back to where you're from, you know, so it's like when you encounter that, so you know a lot. You don't really know who to trust when, you know, when you're asked that question. So that's why it's a just we're very, you know, selective on who we want to tell our story to. And, yeah, it's very, it's not something that we, you know, take lightly because, you know, a lot of people have abused it and haven't, you know, been genuine, so.

[39:57] SARA SKINNER: Yeah, and there's, like you said, there's a lot of trauma. So I appreciate you being willing to open up and to talk about your story, both the wonderful parts, the happy memories, as well as the hard parts. Like, it's really brave of you and it's an emotional thing that you have been willing to do to share your story with me.

[40:17] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: And thank you for wanting to get to know me, for me and for being genuine and for being just a wonderful person because we don't have a lot of people like that. So when you come into someone's lives and simply appreciate them and embrace them for who they are, it just makes all the difference. So thank you, Sara for just being that person.

[40:45] SARA SKINNER: I got lucky when I wound up in the same presentation team as you. Thanks for talking with me.

[40:53] CHANTALE NIYONKURU: Thank you. It.