Charles Eby and Janet Fox-Petersen

[00:07] CHARLES EBY: Good morning. I am Charles Eby. I am 76 years old. This is Wednesday, December 8, 2021. I live in Wichita and I understand that I am going to be talking with Janet, and the only relationship I have is through one small step. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

[00:41] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Good morning. This is Janet and I am delighted to be here and have this conversation with Charles. It's Wednesday, December 8, 2021, and I reside in Wichita, Kansas at this time. Alrighty. Thank you both for participating in one small step. The first question I'm going to ask is why did you want to do this interview today?

[01:13] CHARLES EBY: I guess I'll start first. I'm just eager to, to try this experiment. There's way too much discord in our society and in our world. And whatever I can learn, I think that will be good for me, whether I hope maybe it can be useful to others.

[01:42] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, I appreciate hearing that, Charles. I am a curious person and I like to learn from others and know what makes others tick and why they think that some of the things they do. And I too am very concerned about the discord and the polarization that we see happening in our country at a very elevated and high level at this time. Quite concerning both for sharing. For the second part, I'll go ahead and ask that you all read each other's bios. So Charles, I'm going to go ahead and copy Janet's bio into the chat and you can read it out loud, please. Could you read the bio out loud please?

[02:41] CHARLES EBY: I am reading. Oh, do you want me to read it aloud?

[02:44] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yes, please. Oh, I'll go ahead and read Charles.

[02:48] CHARLES EBY: Bio I'm from Wichita, Kansas and grew up in the most wonderful neighborhood. Riverside Riverside has two rivers winding through it, lovely parks, and many unique bungalow and english two door style homes. Four years ago, I moved back to this wonderful neighborhood and bought a home in a rehabilitate and rehabilitated it with love. This dear home has a lovely view of the river. I'm thankful themes in my life of loss, grief, love, compassion, family, friends, progress, diversity, inclusion, community, peacemaking and open.

[03:48] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: I'm the son of a successful construction contractor. My I think it's supposed to be mother was a wonderful, warm lady. I followed in my father's footsteps by going to k state, studying civil engineering and working my career in construction. I managed construction of power plants and treatment plants. I love outdoor activities like hiking, skiing and kayaking. I was a huncher and fisherman for until about the age of 30. I attend Methodist church with my wife. I volunteer with habitat for Humanity and open door. So I'm going to go ahead and ask. Do you all have any questions for each other regarding your bios? Charles, you can ask your questions first.

[04:28] CHARLES EBY: No, I. I love what I read. I share many of those, including the riverside. I think that is just such a very special neighborhood. I also grew up just on the perimeter of riverside, and for the 40 years I worked at an office downtown. I rode my bicycle through Riverside and enjoyed the things that she talks about.

[05:11] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Cool. I don't. I am familiar with the family and the construction business, and they've made quite a contribution in Wichita. So I share. I love my city of Wichita. I'm so thankful when I was able to move back. And it's just a pleasure to have this conversation. I used to ride my bike, and I still do all throughout Riverside and the city. So it's just great. Alrighty. So the third question then is, who has been the most influential person in your life, and what did they teach you? Charles? You can go ahead and answer first.

[05:59] CHARLES EBY: I can't think of anybody that was particularly my mentor, other than my father. He was a very strong. He had a very strong message of hard work, but also treating people fairly. He was among the first to have a profit sharing plan for his employees. He had minorities in construction, leadership positions. I'll admit the office was all white, but the many supervisors were black or hispanic. I enjoyed working with them, but I'd say my father set the example for my life in construction. My mother was everybody that knows Rick Eby that she was wonderful woman. Excuse me. My heart shows, but anyhow, I couldn't have asked for a better mother. So that's probably where I got some of my heart. Although my father was a generous person also.

[07:30] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Who's been the most influential person in your life, and what did they teach you? Well, I have to say that my grandfather was Perry Esch, and he owned Perry Esch Taylor's right in the heart of Delano on Douglas. That's an area in Wichita. And he was an amazing man. His background was. His family originated in Switzerland as Amish. And they came here and became Mennonite. And so that peacemaking influence of the Mennonite faith was very big in his life. But then he couldn't wait. He and his brothers could not wait to get off the farm. And they came to Wichita, and he had a big tailor business. And his whole life was about storytelling, that stories change lives. And as you hear other people's stories and where they came from, you learn about them and you embrace their lives as important and their story as vital as your own. And so he just taught us a lot about including people. And he went through some rough times. His family did. Initially, they were fairly isolated, and he didn't have a good command of the english language when he started school. And he got, they had some teething, and he just decided, and he and his brothers, too, that once they did better in life, they really wanted to empower other people. And so he, even under great threat, he hired black people to work with him. And as a young person, I got to hear a lot of stories in his tailor shop from people from all walks of life. And so he really influenced me. In fact, his last words to me before he died, he had a nurse aide that was helping him at his nursing home that was from Kenya. And he just looked at me and he said, see? What did I always tell you? Our blood flows through our veins the same. And then he encouraged this nurse aide to, he just looked at him and said, you're a really good man. You're a really good person. Just go for it. Dream your dreams and go for it. And that is the last exchange I had with my grandfather at 96 before he died. So his presence in my life, he had a big influence on me and many other people, and I'm very grateful for that very loving, compassionate way of viewing the world. The last question I'll go ahead and ask is if, could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values? Charles, I'll go ahead and ask for you to go first, and then, Janet.

[10:21] CHARLES EBY: You can follow, repeat. I missed the key words.

[10:27] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Sorry. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

[10:32] CHARLES EBY: Oh, well, to start off with, I was born in Kansas, and I raised in a republican family and probably voted mostly republican for the first 50 or more. Well, of course, you can't vote till you're 20. So till I was about, oh, in my mid fifties or so, and then I just didn't feel comfortable there. And so I'm registered Republican, but I'm, I like to think of myself as independent, and I often find myself cheering for the Democrats, although neither party has an exclusive hold on bright ideas or right ideas. So I, my brother's a libertarian, and I'm sure he thinks I'm a wild eyed liberal, but we get along fine. We respect each other. I understand where he's at, and I think he understands where I'm at, and so I lean on the liberal side.

[11:51] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: So I just have to say, this conversation is so encouraging to me. If I knew you, Charles, we would be friends. I really, it just gives me such hope and faith that we can evolve. My story is similar, but I just really come from a very progressive family and not so much Republican or Democrat, but what is going to be in the best interest of our community and of our families, that's really been the focus. So, you know, I, like Charles, I had similar leanings. I had similar leanings as thinking when I think about conservatives. At one time, I thought that meant preserving the way of life that we want to preserve, change, what needs to be changed and grow and be. I thought being conservative was partially progressive. But as things have evolved, I too have moved. And in fact, for the first time ever in 2016, I actually registered as a Democrat. I've been independent prior to that. But I just, what I see happening in what I no longer see as the conservative party, I just can't, I can't, I can't go along with hardly at all. So I switched parties. But even now, if suddenly the Democrats started behaving in a way that I could not go along with, I would shift. I mean, it's more about how are we preserving human dignity and caring for all of our community and not just for ourselves. And I just see things that are happening within what I, to me, at one time, there wasn't that much difference. I could have cared less, Democrat or Republican, big deal. It just didn't matter to me in my view. But I feel like things have turned so much that it's just shocking really to me where we are. Maybe other people saw it coming. I didn't see it coming until really 2016. I was just, I don't know, it's been interesting to watch. So I don't call, I don't like labels at all. I really don't like labels. I do call myself as a progressive. And what that means to me is when I get new information, I'm willing to evolve and change. I'm willing to look at new information. And I just don't think staying stuck is an option. And we need to grow. We certainly don't want to go backwards. And so demonizing people just because we disagree, that's not an option for me. I don't understand that. And just because I am a Democrat right now, that doesn't mean that I can't analyze or critique what I think when I feel like they're getting off the mark. What I saw happening in the other party is that no matter what the decision was, no matter if it was good or bad, you know, it could be a horrible decision, and it's still being supported. And so I don't understand that. I just am interested in more the common good. And I saw the Democrat party. It's not perfect. Some of it's a mess. But in terms of aligning to how I think things should go, it much more aligns with my, my belief system than the other party. Thank you both for sharing. Those were the four big questions that I had. You can feel free to ask your own questions now, or if you'd like, I have a few other questions that I can ask. Do you all have your own questions? Good morning, pioneers.

[16:04] CHARLES EBY: Today is Wednesday.

[16:12] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah. So, Charles, do you have any questions for Janet? Or Janet, do you have any questions for Charles? I'm going to ask that you all share that after.

[16:20] CHARLES EBY: I can tell that we're way too well matched to have a dogfight or anything, which is just fine with me. But anyhow, I didn't understand one of your volunteer activities. I. Let's see if I can even resurrect it. But anyhow, I. Oh, the peace and versus discord, I guess, or whatever, and promote home, look like home businesses. Anyhow, tell me about. I think we're on the same page, but tell me about whatever activities or organizations you're involved with that are trying to make a more peaceful world.

[17:20] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, I just started getting involved in an organization that is very small because it's new and it is called Citizens assembly. And what that is, is bringing people together that don't all think alike but have conversations about what we can actually agree on for the purposes of then really pushing this forward in the government. So some of these issues, if citizens don't have unite and if they continue to with this polarization, it's just not working. So that's one organization I'm involved in that I. That is. In fact, I'd love to invite Charles into it because I think it's going to be powerful.

[18:16] CHARLES EBY: It's called Citizen Defenders Citizens assembly. My hearing is not wonderful.

[18:27] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: It's assemblies. And if you could look up the name Ted Wachtell. W a c h t e l. Dreaming of a new. Yeah. C h t e l. Dreaming of a new. And it's. He's written a book. Dreaming of a new reality.

[19:00] CHARLES EBY: Oh, okay. Well, we have friends up in Minnesota, and Joanne is active in greater angels. It sounds much like the same sort of organization working with. Well, with the goal of making life on this planet and in this country a more happy and harmonious place.

[19:33] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, Charles, I think it's amazing, because I know that Ted and his group have contact with, with that group in Minnesota, so. Oh, my goodness. I think we need to continue this conversation. After this conversation, I'll give you my.

[19:52] CHARLES EBY: Email and my phone number. And that would be perfectly. Well, I can tell that as. As we were going through the first few steps, that we have a lot in common, and I think, including where our hearts are.

[20:07] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: I know. And so the question I had for you is, so what, what caused you to evolve? So, because we are living in a very, you know, a republican state, a conservative, very conservative state, and I wouldn't identify either one of us within, you know, that, as extreme conservatism as the state we're in. So what caused you to evolve is what I'm wondering.

[20:41] CHARLES EBY: Well, if I'm understanding the question number one, my wife and I remain republican for one simple reason. If we want our vote to count, 90% of the people elected will be Republicans. So we'd like to have an opportunity to influence that in the primaries. That has nothing to do with where we vote in the general election, but it gives us, empowers us to try to direct the, you know, the outcome of primaries, and then we'll vote for whoever we think is the better candidate. But my, I'm okay. The three activities that I have invested the most energy in in the last 20 years. Habitat for Humanity. I've been. I was on their board off and on for 20 years. I finally retired. I felt like it was time for somebody else. I still love the organization. I volunteered there last week in the field, and I enjoyed working on the board, but I thought, give somebody else a chance. Habitat's model is, when I found it, I knew I'd found my home. The model is that we want to provide safe, affordable housing for everyone. However we ask people to first, we determine if they have a need. And there are a lot of different criteria that would allow a person to say they have a need, including having people jammed up. Okay, we're in mom's basement. There's just no room down here. Or we're in an apartment, but we can't afford this. Things costing more money than we got, you know, so it's a nice apartment, but we can't afford it. Things like that. But then, okay, you need a. Are you willing to agree to work sweat equity, 400 hours of sweat equity for a couple to earn the house. And once you've gotten it, are you willing to pay the mortgage? Because we don't give the house away. We sell it at cost. And we don't charge any interest. Well, if you've ever bought a house, you know, interest is half the cost, so it greatly reduces the monthly payments. But that investment in time and energy. And also there's an educational program that you go through while you're doing your sweat equity. It just hits a. The nail on the head for me. So I love habitat. The second one is big brothers, big sisters. I have had two little brothers. One of them, to my great amazement, has become a huge success in my mind. He went through a lot of troubles. I had him for three and a half years. They moved to Texas, and he just washing. Well, it was a bad time for him to move and anyhow. But in the last couple of years, the lights came on. He's not in trouble. He's married. He's got two kids, a lovely wife, and he has his own business and is very successful. The third one was open door, where we provide food, clothing and housing for people in need. And so that's, that's not very political. It's simply how I want to try to change the world is one, one person at a time or, or what, or however it is. So. So I guess I don't know what the. I say beyond that.

[25:04] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, that's just a great, great story and a great example of how you see the world. And I see it influenced by listening to other people and what their journey and stories are. I mean, not everybody had the privilege of what maybe you and I have had. And so having some compassion for other folks and really supporting them, I don't see that at all. I see that that's how we need to. That's my value to operate in the world. And another influence I had is, oh, I was a school psychologist for Wichita public schools. And through that, my life, education through people's stories, taught me a great deal about people's struggles. And then I started an initiative in restorative practices, which is a social science, a growing social science about how do we build and maintain healthy relationships in an inclusive and diverse way so that no one is left out. And it's a lofty goal, but we piloted that at a high school, a high level poverty high school in Wichita. And after many years, the progress we were making Washington so great through our initiative that the school district has adopted restorative practices district wide. And I think it is the most civil and humane way we can go about doing school, respecting people and looking deeper than just the surface of their behaviors, really seeking how we can support its high, high accountability, high compassion, though, and support high accountability with the balance of compassion and support. So being in this school district, the Wichita public schools, and listening to the stories of the families and the students has changed my life. It's been such a gift to work in the school district, to be with people whose background experiences are different than mine, and to be able to learn and grow and then really influence people, to adopt policies and practices that are about healing rather than punishment. It's accountability, but we're not getting very far by just punishing people rather than trying to understand and support people. So it's not permissive in approach or anything like that. And that's what I love about what you described, just not handing things over, but I. Teaching the skills of how you're going to be able to maintain a home and pay for it, but making it easier on people so they can actually do it. So it's just really about, for me, compassion with accountability. And that, to me, that shouldn't be political at all.

[28:10] CHARLES EBY: What you said brought two things to mind. I know Ernie Crabbe She's in my Sunday school class, and she is on the board of the school board. And I know they've been doing some good things. I'm not aware of this program, but I will be interested in learning more about that. It sounds very much like what we're trying to do with our policing. Okay, here's this homeless guy, but why is he homeless? Why is he misbehaving? Well, mental illness, drugs, or. Then he's a bad guy. I mean, there's. I mean, there are some bad apples out there, but mental illness and drugs? Hey, maybe we can help. Instead of arresting and throwing them in jail, how about putting them, if necessary, in an institution which will help them recover or deal with their mental illness? So it sounds like on a different level, that's what you're doing in the school district. Is that close?

[29:25] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah, exactly. And Ernestine is a friend of mine, and she's a big supporter, so that's a small world. And, you know, what I'm thinking here is I'm kind of laughing at myself, you know, unfortunately, you know, there's a stereotype of older white guys, and you just diverse. Everybody, welcome to the club. And I would like to corrode you, you know, and I would like. I would love for your voice to be out there, because not all older white guys are prejudiced, discriminatory, narrow minded. I mean, my father was case in point, and my 96 year old grandfather, too. And so then how. Here you are. You know, there's many of you. And so it seems like the loudest voice is what is heard. That's what the media picks up, but that's not the only voice. And we've got to remember that. That in our country, there's still many people like you and me who are older white people. They really do care about people of poverty and diversity. And so it's like that loudest voice is what is so often heard, and then we think that's what's driving the train when there's many other good, positive forces at play.

[30:46] CHARLES EBY: Sadly true. Yeah.

[30:54] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: So I appreciate you being who you are. I mean, I know you're. You're a construction company. I mean, you could be very pompous. I mean, when you consider all that your family has accomplished, man, you could be an arrogant son of a gun, you know? So I. It's my utmost respect for who you are and how you've expressed and all the service that you've given. It's. It's greatly appreciated. It's just rich and I thank you.

[31:29] CHARLES EBY: Well, I don't know that you saw my written bio, but. No, I guess it was something that Kevin sent just before I started this interview. And I just see my life as being blessed. I just. I look around and I think, you know, at every turn, good things happen to me. Okay, so I did get cancer. Guess what? I got good doctors. I haven't. I've never been sick, you know. Okay. My. I wouldn't have known that I. Well, I wouldn't have known until I died that I had the cancer. But I kept me. Had me, you know, you had to get an annual physical. Well, okay, there I am. But it turned out okay. In fact, it turned out better than okay because it turned on the lights. I. By that, I mean I looked at my life, and suddenly when you see a stop sign in your life that you think, oh, this won't go on forever. What do I want to do with what time I have left? I thought I only had a few years left. Well, that was 25 years ago. But at that point, I decided I want to give back. I've been blessed. And, yes, I continued working, but I began diminishing the hours at the office and spending more time volunteering and finally retired. And I've enjoyed it very much. And, you know, I feel blessed. So I really don't feel like I'm doing anything unusual other than just expressing what's in my heart.

[33:30] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, I really appreciate the role model you are that within your blessing set, you have humility. And willingness to support other people. It's amazing. I'm loving this conversation. I'm so thankful to have you. Just having you been introduced to me, I really appreciate that so much. And for me, I, too, have access to healthcare and good healthcare, but I don't want to leave it at that. I want other people to have access to healthcare. I think watching our young people, I mean, I have a young woman that she has had all kinds of health issues, and she's so far, she's $70,000 in debt, and she's a single parent, and because of medical problems and bills, and that's just not. I can't live with that. And I know the rest of the world looks at the United States and it shakes their head, why would we not want to have our citizens to have access to healthcare? It just is mind boggling to me. I do not understand why we want to put roadblocks there for people to get just the bottom baseline needs that they have, particularly in that arena.

[34:59] CHARLES EBY: Yeah. You're suggesting that the current $200,000 a year that it would cost to buy my medicine. Thank goodness for Medicare. I'll only have to pay 5% of that. Do you think that might make a little dent in other people's budgets also $200,000.

[35:27] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Right. And what I see in the world, you know, with our clients in Wichita public schools, we see so many people who have gone without care and then seeing people so much younger than me that their health issues, you know, when you don't have care, you're going to suffer. So there's early deaths, a lot of young people, lost parents. You know what happens when people don't have access? It's just brutal. And other people, they don't. You know, if they're living in their world, we're so disconnected from each other now more than ever that it just seems like a lot of people have the attitude, well, that doesn't affect me. I don't care. Well, but ultimately, it affects everyone. When one part of our community hurts, we all hurt, and people just don't see that. And the more desperate the society is, the more violence goes up, the more crime goes up. To have a desperate society because they can't get their basic needs met, it's very concerning, and that does affect everybody, whether we acknowledge it or nothing. You know, the other big concern I have, in addition to healthcare is just the easy access to guns that we have. I am not opposed to people owning guns at all. You know, there was all the scare that Obama was going to take their guns away. Well, that didn't happen. But why? We don't have regulations about guns. I know they think that if they give an inch that the government will take, you know, take everything away. And I don't get that fear. I don't at all, because it's never materialized like that. And the more access people have to guns, the more guns there are. I mean, just this latest episode, of course, it affected us very much. What went on in Oxford High School in Michigan, it's so alarming. Of course, in Wichita, we school, public schools, we have very strict protocols that, I don't know any administrator, any teacher, any counselor that would take those threats lightly no matter what the parent said, no matter what the student kind of what story they spun. We have protocols in place, but it's still no guarantees. And it's very alarming. The guns that we know that are outside our community and the concern that they're coming in our doors, it's just very alarming. In fact, I mean, I think this sets us back. We're going to be suffering from this for a long time to come, and I do not understand why. We do not want to enforce responsible gun ownership and to have some regulation about it. I just don't understand it.

[38:26] CHARLES EBY: Yeah, well, our second amendment, and I don't know how that's all ever going to play out, but it certainly seems absurd to me. I was thinking about it this morning, all right, why can't I have a tank, you know, or a howitzer? Well, maybe I can. I don't know. Maybe that falls in the second amendment, too. You know, park a tank in my front yard. And if somebody, you know, oh, I think that guy was robbing it, so I blast him. Good idea. Great idea. Anyhow, I share your concern, and I really don't, with the second amendment. The interpretation, I think, is quite. I don't know. Obviously, you can't. When you're in 1776, you can't imagine what gun means in 2021. You know, it's all together, different world. So.

[39:38] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Well, I just see everything with a balance in mind. Like, you know, if you have all compassion and no accountability, you're going to be enabling. But if it's all about rules, regulations, punishment and accountability, you're not having a balance with caring. You're not going to be moving forward. You're just going to be punishing. And I see that, you know, with the Second Amendment, yes, you have a right to bear arms, but what kind of arms? And what about that, that you can at least regulate self ownership of it. And with freedom becomes responsibility. Where is the responsibility? And that leads me then to a whole other issue. Is the truth in the news media. I mean, ever since that law was changed, I can't remember the name of it in the eighties. Now you can say anything at all and act like it is the absolute truth, but there's no accountability for that. And I'm concerned about that. On both sides of the extremes, there has got to be some accountability. And so now people will say to me, well, there's just no truth. You know, you can never know any truth. I'm like, what? Yes, there is some truth. There is some truth, but with no accountability in what's reported for truth. And then people just take, you know, I had a woman tell me that she could tell what's true or not just from reading the headline. I mean, I just am like, how can that be? I had a friend that sent me this video about this guy that was really anti vaccine. And she told me, she said, you'll know why I'm so against vaccines after you listen to this video. And I said, well, you know, I'm open. I listen to this video, but, you know, I will investigate it. So then I find out this guy that's so passionate, he's a veterinarian. His background is veterinarian medicine. He's never practiced in medicine with people, and yet he is acting like he's an expert. And so there's just, you know, just accepting things just because they're loud or passionate. And she said, well, he's sure passionate. I'm like, well, so when does that ever make it true? You know? And I don't argue with people. Like, she and I are on polar opposites, the extremes with politics. But I still have been friends for a long time, and it's not worth losing my friendship. So luckily, we can have very loving conversations and just agree to disagree, but it just doesn't. I just. I don't understand what's happening with very little critical thinking or investigating things further just because somebody says it, you think it's true without looking into it further. Of course. I'm a researcher. I get that. But I still don't think that I'm the expert just because I am a researcher. You know, I just want to be intelligent and look at multiple points of view and investigate things rather than just accept them as face value.

[42:51] CHARLES EBY: In college, one, I don't know, semester, year, whatever it was, I roomed with my best friend at K State. I had a best friend back here in Wichita. But this was my best friend in K state and we had wonderful times together. And, you know, whatever, okay, turn the clock forward 50 years and he's become extremely conservative and he, his daughters are sending information on the virus. So he remains unvaccinated because, you know, okay, I think engineers are smart. I went through engineering and I know that it was a tough curriculum and you had to work hard. And he was a bright engineer and he worked at Boeing and they, when they had layoffs, he wasn't. When they laid off, they hung on to him. He's, he was a good man. He's bright, and yet he, his daughters send him these videos that say, oh, you know, there's all sorts of bad stuff in the virus, in the vaccine and he remains unvaccinated. And we discussed it several times, you know, I don't want to ruin a relationship, although he's, he became so religiously conservative that it's, we have a hard time, you know, reestablishing the kind of relationship we used to have. It's just his thought process and mine are, are no longer the same. I still like him. And so I provided him information, I explained my reasoning, you know, okay, I go to sites that I know five minutes. I go to sites that I can respect. If it's medical information, I learn, you know, WebMD or Mayo Clinic or something like that. That's where I get my information. And he understands that, but he still doesn't have the vaccine.

[45:24] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Right? Yeah, that's my friend as well, you know, and I have some people I have, I really and truly I've had to disconnect with. But my friend, where we're so politically unopposing have opposing views, our common denominator is love. And so I have another friend that we are polar opposites in political views, but we have been good, strong friends since we were twelve years old. And our common denominator is love. And so those folks that even though we really disagree politically, we have figured out there's a lot of things do agree on, we focus on that and, but it's, it's the love, it's the folks that I have, you know, and how we share college too. I went to k state. Some of those friends that I had back in the day in college, I'm not, because they're just full of venom and hate and I can't associate with that. I just can't. And I don't understand being a person of faith, you know, a Jesus follower, a Christian, as they identify. I do not understand how that lines up with such venom and demonizing people who don't agree with you. I don't see how that fits. So the friends that I've been able to maintain with where we're so different politically, largely because of our experiences, because of the care and love that still drives our lives, we're able to maintain friendships. And so that's really true of my sister and brother also. We've got a lot of commonality, but politically, there are some differences. But we've all talked about we are not letting any differences get in the way of our relationship. But I know that everybody's not wired that way. So I have a partner who I dearly love. Prairie Hill Vineyard. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it's, it's just a gorgeous place that he's growing. There's been a little bit different perspective there where one of his family members just is. I observe that it's driven by hate and dissension and conflict. And so I don't know how to be in a relationship with someone that is driven by perpetuating conflict. There's no desire to resolve anything. So I don't see how to maintain a relationship that way. Yeah, it's all about to attack, defend, attack some more and perpetuating conflict. So I just don't even see how that, even as a mediator, as I am, there's just certain personalities that you're going to get. You just, you can't live with it, so you have to. I have disconnected, you know, we're done recording. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, that's okay.

[48:51] CHARLES EBY: If we can do that. I just didn't want to get cut off without.

[48:56] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah, I don't know if there's any. Yeah. Last things you all want to say. We're good to wrap up, you know. Yeah, we're at the end of the recording. Thank you both so much for recording. Carol, this is just. I am so delighted to meet you.

[49:12] CHARLES EBY: Well, I'm delighted to meet you, too. I look forward to furthering our conversation. So, anyhow, the only problem is we didn't have enough conflict or things that we had to avoid. We're too darn similar.

[49:36] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah. Well, I think that's good, though. It's good to also, you know, connect with people that, I mean, I would not have. I don't know. I don't like to make stereotypes about anybody. I'm just glad to meet, you know, another person that is very humane and it's given back a lot in society. I'm delighted by that.

[50:01] CHARLES EBY: Well, maybe it's because we have this strange perspective. You know, like, for me, getting cancer was one of the best things I've ever had happen because it caused me to look at my life. So I guess that's a positive outlook. But I think we do have an awful lot of similarities.

[50:26] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah. Yeah. And I've had some trials, you know, along the way. I do think that you were born into a family, though, that was very kind and loving, and that's really helpful. My family was as well. I. There was a lot of, you know, some challenges within it as there is in any family. But I did get the message of. The one driving message that I heard is, don't judge another person until you have walked in their shoes. I would say that's the number one driving message I got from my family that I really appreciate.

[51:02] CHARLES EBY: That's. That's a very, very good message.

[51:08] JANET FOX-PETERSEN: Yeah. Guided me through my life.

[51:15] CHARLES EBY: So how do we go about sharing?