Vera Rubin and Laurie Blackmon

00:01 Still my name is Vera Rubin. I'm a 86 years old. Today is February 9th 2017. I'm in Chicago, Illinois and my relationship to my partner is she is my daughter.

00:25 My name is Lori Blackman. I'm 62 years old. The date is February 9th, 2017 or in Chicago, Illinois and my relationship to my partners. She's my mother.

00:43 Hi Mom. Hi Lori, so I contact who have you been who have been the most important people in your life. My definitely my parents.

00:59 And my grandparents

01:02 And died after that it would be my children and my husband may be my husband before my children.

01:10 Hey, are you close to your parents? I was very close to my parents. We were I was an only child and we were Trio.

01:29 We were like a trio particularly because we were the only three that got out of out of Europe alive during the Holocaust so we were very very close.

01:45 What were they like they were wonderful people they were very cultured. They were very honest. They were a lot of fun particularly. My father was a really amazing person and that's was my mother. They were hard-working they came here with nothing. I mean when we came here we were in debt actually because we had family who had to pay our passage to the United States so they came here in debt and they were

02:24 Quite well off in Czechoslovakia and when we came here my father

02:34 Are the only job he could get was selling Fuller brushes door-to-door.

02:40 Going up people's back stairs knocking on the door having the door slammed in his face and told go away.

02:53 I'm trying to think how old he was. He might have been 38 something like that. Maybe 40 my mother the only job that she could get was as a cleaning lady.

03:07 I am people's homes scrubbing floors on her hands and knees and this went on for about a year until their English improved and they were able to get jobs in factories and in both cases, they were able to work their way up and they became one became a manager in a factory and the other one was the

03:32 I would like a forelady it was called at the time. She managed to other people and they never complained. They were happy to be alive, even though we were the only ones who got out of out of Europe allies and they lost all their family.

03:55 So that's why I'm very proud of them. And I always have been what were the factory said they worked him. They my father worked the name of the company was formed fit and they they made bras. That was the name of the company formed fit. They made bras and he was a cutter he cut out the fabric and yeah, he got Awards there for being such a good employee and people really liked him. My mother works for a company that made slipcovers for furniture for upholstered furniture and she really, you know, improved herself and really kind of ran the place after a while.

04:45 And so they did all right in there. They know how to save money and they learned English and they made friends and they created a safe environment for me. I never felt.

05:04 Alone, even though I have lost all my family but my parents and I really wish we had a good life here, you know, they never complain about things. It was what it was.

05:17 What do you remember about leaving Europe and arriving at Ellis Island?

05:23 So

05:24 I am leaving Europe. We first took a train from Prague in. What was then Czechoslovakia?

05:35 And we took that train to to Italy and right now I forget. The name of the town in from there. We took a ship to New York New York Harbor and even they had my mother. We all looked up that we have had no money. I mean by the Germans would not let us take anything out of the country and my mother just to make sandwiches and they got in touch with the Jewish community in the in the country in the city. We were in in Italy which I I wish I could remember the name of it, but I I forgot and she just manage things very well and then we got on the ship.

06:26 And I went to New York Harbor and I have a story that I love should I?

06:35 So I know she'll buy I was eight and a half almost nine years old at the time and I started to converse with a man who was the priest and there was a group at that time. It was called that they're still around there. They were called the Vienna Choir boys and he traveled with them. He was the day they went to a Menor bovee a nice and he traveled with them and they were on their way to to New York. And so he and I struck up this friendship and I was with him all the time at the ship and my tell my parents that I this man is so nice to me and that he's a priest and my parents somehow found it hard to believe and said no you mean a rabbi know because he's wearing

07:35 A caller, you know, I know he's a priest so this man who was so amazing. He got to know my parents and my parents told them the story that we were coming to you know, ultimately to Chicago of our family was in Chicago. And of course they had no jobs no money really nothing and he offered that his mother who lived in Upper New York state would take care of me that I could live with his mother for as long as they needed to be settled in Chicago to have a job and apartment whatever to be settled so that they could take care of me and then he told my parents and you don't have to worry.

08:27 About her losing her Jewish identity because they have one that happen. So whenever you're ready, you know will deliver her to you. So well my parents decline the offer you no stay. Well. We Beetle the three of us have been together and we don't want to be separated now. However, once we were settled in Chicago what we do we kept in touch and he came to visit us at least six or seven times in Chicago and I remember he would come to our apartment. My parents are still at work, but he would come over and the first thing he did and I don't know I just found this so endearing was take off his collar. We went to movies together and his name was Julius Reiner father Julius Reiner cancel that that's the highlight of my journey to New York.

09:27 Find me actually that how did you get the angel necklace you had the guardian ants that I mentioned that I didn't know if it was important enough up when we left Prague to go to Italy to get on the ship and Aunt met us or maybe she took us to the

09:49 To the train that was taking us to to Italy and she was safe. I mean she didn't have to leave. She was not Jewish and she said I have a little present for you and that we were not allowed to bring anything out of Czechoslovakia. I mean the Germans just would not as if we were occupied by then and she just kind of put it in my hand and said, you know, just, you know, keep keep it someplace safe and I hope it was a a little locket is an angel and she just said I hope this Angel keeps you all safe.

10:28 So it was very very sweet and then many years later I gave that angel to my daughter.

10:35 Stuff to keep her safe. Can I still have it?

10:41 To what would you say has been the kindest to you and your life? Okay, I have to say and I don't even have to think about it that it was my father. My father was the kindest person and I don't remember him ever. You're not nothing when I stated. He never criticize me. He never said anything that would make me feel badly about myself, you know, he's just very kind and gentle and he was a lovely lovely man and as much as I mean, I love my mother too, but my mother could be critical and child.

11:28 Takes that seriously though. My father was just the kind of person that especially to me and we were very very close.

11:36 You would mention what time is story about how they used to waltz. Did you want to talk about that at all? It's just cuz it was so sweet. And so simple my parents love to dance. Well when we live in Czechoslovakia, they would go out with friends. They would go dancing and I guess it must have been nightclubs or I was too young to remember. So when we lived in Chicago in our first apartment we had two rooms. It was a living room and a kitchen in a little dining area and they had no money as far as going out to anyting to movies or concerts or anyting but occasionally, they would pushed off of furniture against the wall turn on there while we called it a victrola that died.

12:29 And in Waltz in the living room and I love that because they weren't they weren't demonstrative in any other way, but they loved Waltzing in so they would do that in this tiny little apartment on the third floor and 67th Street in Chicago.

12:51 And I just kind of like that. I love that story.

12:59 Who can you describe a perfect day of your childhood?

13:06 Yeah, but yes, it's so simple that hard to believe that would be a perfect day. So when we lived in the city of cumming, tell sometimes for now, tub. There was a beach nearby and it was called The Alarm said Elam with alum and otherwise you couldn't sink there and we used to go there on picnics on Sundays over. I guess. It must have been Sundays.

13:41 And it was just something we did so frequently and I have pictures of us there and it was just a wonderful wonderful thing. The friends of my parents would come and we had a little like a changing little house there and my parents as I said, they were quite well-to-do and they're they're made I hit use that word but would bring us food for lunch hot dishes and cold dishes and it was quite very very nice and can a very elegant and that's why then that the comparison of how we lived.

14:24 And then they became my mother became a cleaning lady and my father became a fuller brush salesman, which I don't know whoever reads this if you know what Fuller brush you just try to sell people things door-to-door minutes.

14:41 The tough thing to do especially when you don't know the language anyways cells that you had those were my perfect happiest memories and my grandparents would come and so being an only child and I don't think I was spoiled but I was loved I do know they really love me and took care of me and my mother had a brother who was not married and he also was one of my favorite people he was lots and lots of fun. So I was the only nice I was the only grandchild child. So I had a lot of love. What was the brother's name? His name was Victor and my daughter's middle name is Vicki after him. And he was also just a terrific person. He was kind of a

15:32 I was going to say Gabe late, but he was just kind of a happy he was an attorney. He was a lawyer and he went skiing and swimming and then he was so much fun. He was to visit us at Easter time and he always brought me chocolate Easter bunnies and if my mother always got mad at him. But yeah, so he would he would come to that lake with us and it was a really fun. It was fun. It was simple but it was a lot of fun. So fortunately he well. Unfortunately he died in a concentration camp as did my grandmother. My grandfather died of natural causes. He died of cirrhosis of the liver which might be good for family to know and but my grandmother died in the concentration camp

16:32 Did Victor so that he was young?

16:38 But those were the times.

16:42 So now we're in America. How did you meet Dad? Okay, which I know we're jumping way ahead. Well, I was nine when we came here. I met him when I was 17 18 something like that. So again, I'm at the beach and I just saw him with some other people and we just became friendly we lived a block away from one another and don't we just became friends and then, you know became more than friends. How how old were you when you so I was 18 when we met and maybe 17 and I was 19 when we got engaged and 20 when I got married.

17:27 Okay, and that he proposed to me we were when he used to bring me home after a date he would we lived on the third floor of my parents and I and he always walk me up the stairs to the third floor. So and we would sit there and talk a little bit and so we were sitting there and talking on the on the steps and he says so I have a little something for you. And so he handed me an engagement ring and we were engaged, you know, probably get married. But yeah, that was a surprise and you were how old so I was 19. Okay, and we were engaged tomorrow and he was in school. He was in pharmacy school.

18:16 And I was working and I went to night school at the time. I went to Roosevelt night school after work. And yeah, and then we got married a year later and thinks we're okay. And then when did he when did you guys move to St. Louis? So when Paul graduated from pharmacy school?

18:43 He was drafted.

18:46 And he was stationed at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

18:52 And I decided to move down there because that was right near the city of st. Louis and actually then he work in St. Louis at a chemical lab for the for the Army. So we lived in St. Louis and we ate well, the reason he was drafted they would not drafting but I mean we were married at the time but they were not drafting married men with children or even if their wife was pregnant. However, I just couldn't sleep too too and I was not pregnant and so he was drafted. So that's how we will end up in st. Louis but in St. Louis, I did become pregnant and with my first child and I was beside myself. I was just

19:46 Yeah, it was just the most exciting thing in the world and I remember calling my parents and they were excited. They still lived in Chicago and it was it was very exciting and I had an uneventful pregnancy. Everything went well and then Paul was transferred to Chicago. So we live in Chicago.

20:10 And he was only in the service for two years. So that was really happy time. And I've loved staying Lewis ever since I've been back and I love it. So great City.

20:22 So that baby that you had with me the baby was you and you were such a good baby. And how did you pick my name still Paul's father's name was Louis.

20:36 And he died three months before Paul and I got married which was very sad, and I had a really nice relationship with him with Louis. I mean everyone called him Louis. So we wanted an L, you know, and in his memory and of course the V was from Vicki was for my my uncle Victor. So that's how Lori got her name.

21:22 Can I mention something about you seems to be something about God. Yes. I do. I very definitely believe in God, I believe in a personal God.

21:36 And I find a very important in my life. I'm not particularly observant in My Religion, but I which is Jewish but I I do believe in God.

21:52 Okay, it helps it makes it easier.

22:04 Okay, what you talked about?

22:07 Well, I mean Nana said no you have on here when in life if you felt the most alone.

22:15 So my husband well one of my sons was very very ill as a teenager and at one point was hospitalized for five months and had several operations and was very very ill and at the same time. My husband was diagnosed with leukemia.

22:42 So

22:44 I felt very very alone.

22:48 Because you can only I don't know how it's even though. My mother was alive. My father had already. My father died when he was 74, he had already passed away and my mother was a immense he's helped me. She was just amazing, but when push comes to shove and it's your husband and your son you are really alone.

23:16 And so that the other had had a Visa status.

23:20 The loneliest part of my life and you guys kept it a secret to yeah, and we are my husband and I are yeah he woke up one morning and he was very very swollen and in his neck and he said look at look. What do you think? This is so I said, I don't know. I don't know but I think maybe you should go to the emergency room which we did and he was diagnosed with leukemia and we chose me he chose and I agreed with him to keep it to ourselves. We didn't want I mean I had one child my youngest was only

24:01 9 or something like that David, I don't remember exactly.

24:06 But he was very young and my other two children either with teenagers and I just didn't want to it wouldn't help for them to know so we kept it to ourselves until we absolutely had to you know till about two months before he died, but we were able to handle it. You know, we had each other and I did I did tell my mother I needed to have somebody so I did tell my mother but yeah, so that was a that was a bad time. Of time. My son survived his illness and my husband did not but so that that was a very sad time.

24:52 But I do believe everyone has their. Of sadness in life.

25:01 Say what the most profound spiritual moment of your life was you have a thing here. I do ya know cuz that might be a hard one.

25:10 Cuz I'm not okay. Okay. Okay, I believe in God.

25:20 Okay.

25:24 How would you describe yourself as a child? I was I was very shy.

25:31 And I was very quiet.

25:33 I was happy. I mean, I wasn't lonely but but I was shy and quiet and good. To be good. And I actually I was also good cuz knowing with my parents had gone through in their life. You're losing almost everyone. I just felt I never wanted to cause them any any additional problems or dress or Strife. So I think my nature was to be good and kind of quiet but I I really tried I did not want to give them any more problems and they've already had what was it like for you when they were off at work when they came to this country?

26:26 Yeah, that was they left they walk but they both left at around 6:30 in the morning. They came back at around 6 at night or something like that. So they woke me up before they went to work and I got myself ready for school. And I I I guess I must have handled it. All right. I mean I didn't know the language but I seem to make friends with you know, people were kind to me and then and I guess this was kind of pathetic they came home around the same time and I would wait at the bus stop for them. But I think of it. Yeah, I would just take myself off to the bus stop and wait for whoever came first. Yeah, and so I don't remember crying while I was home alone, except we unfortunately had a lot of mice. Yeah, that was not fun.

27:26 Damaged me they had to work and you would start dinner and I would have sometimes I would start dinner usually potatoes, you know, my mother had little job for me to do so, I'm sure yeah, so yeah, I didn't feel damaged from the fact that I was with a latchkey kid ideas.

27:51 It didn't seem to.

27:54 I don't know if text me it just did what it is what it is. I mean I was old enough to understand they had to work. So that was our life. But someone that came home everything was fine, you know, we always had dinner together and I was okay. Do you want to tell the story the story of when you came to this country? What day it was when you came arrived and Chicago Thanksgiving. So we arrived on Thanksgiving.

28:28 And my mother's aunt.

28:33 Chris had us over for dinner for Thanksgiving dinner. They had arranged for an apartment for us. So we live right near them and so we didn't have Thanksgiving in Czechoslovakia. And so they had turkey and sweet potatoes and just a traditional Thanksgiving dinner. And this was at noon time. They always ate at noon which was in Europe. That was our main meal. So we had this wonderful meal and they said that in the evening they're going to take us to visit some other relatives that lived in Berwyn. Yeah right near you Lori, so we are.

29:16 Got ourselves ready and they picked us up and we drove to Berwyn to have dinner with these relatives who we had never met and who also were the kindest people.

29:28 And lo and behold they served the same dinner that we had had for lunch. Now, we didn't know that this was a traditional meal for Thanksgiving and we just kind of looked at his even have turkey in Europe. There must have been turkey but my mother never made it yeah, I mean everything, you know pumpkin pie was all the same and so my mother always told that story and I started telling you

30:05 Okay, so well in speaking of food, what were some of mimo specialty? Oh my God. My daughter is made Lori. I'm so happy that you're making so a typical check dish was for dumplings many different types of dumplings and my mother made dumplings frequently and everybody in the family. Love them. And I'm incapable of making them but Lori makes them and they're delicious. So you used to help her make but it's true. Yeah and my mother made strudel how and how would he do that? Was she made the phyllo dough herself. So she which is something that you have you need a table and you pull out the dough and it's it's it's not easy to make

31:00 And she would wake me up early in the morning to help her make it.

31:07 Because you almost need two people to pull the dough properly. Yeah, so that yeah, she was she was a wonderful wonderful cook. So she made apple strudel. She made all different types of dumplings in the guy. She was a girl starch. We had a lot of starch and did you have your own bedroom? Never never? So where were you sleeping? I so our apartment had a living room and it had was called at that time and energy or bed. So I don't know how to describe it. It's a bed that old at that came out of the wall. Turn it around. Murphy bed. That's a Murphy bed. So my parents slept on the Murphy bed, and I slept on a little pouch in the dining area.

32:02 Of her apartment. I mean, that's just what we had. So I never I never had my own room.

32:08 Ever until until my husband died cuz then I got married and we share the room and yeah, so we had this tiny little apartment but it was it was so sweet and my hit my mother took such good care of it. My mother was an Immaculate housekeeper and we always had music they always listen to classical music and we listen to the Opera on Saturday afternoon. Send. So we didn't have much but what we had we enjoyed and yeah used to compare and we went to the beach all the time cuz that we lived on I think I mentioned 67th Street in Chicago with just maybe he's eight blocks from the beach. So we did that on Sundays.

33:08 We it was like what we did in Prague accept. Nobody brought us our meals. But yeah, I didn't check. It was interesting that it didn't bother me because it was kind of a wealthy neighborhood. So sure so all my friends have their own rooms and I never questioned. You know, how come I don't

33:35 You know, I guess when you know that life is been a struggle somewhat you accept what it is. And you mentioned the beach. Where did you and dad used to go?

33:48 That was 79th Street. Oh, we used to go in Hyde Park, right? We went to the point of God. There was so much fun. Yeah. Yeah, there was he had it was called the point and it was a v 50 V. I guess and Lake Shore Drive and I oh my God, I spend so much time there. I guess you could say I wasted so much but I loved my mother wound up living in Hyde Park. And so what were some of the favorite things that you and dad used to do together when you were young?

34:26 What did we do that? We love to go. He loved to play bridge and he was an excellent. Excellent bridge player. I was not we like we like to travel we like to go downtown, you know movies, you know, things like that. We didn't do any sports. Remember you telling me used to go to Grand Park a lot. Right? Did I tend to forget all these things? And yeah, there was one summer where we went to every concert and then toward the end of the summer we realized we had gone to everyone's so then we had to keep going I was young had to keep going because we had to finish off that summer by not missing a concert it almost became a drag race Point Beach finished now, you know, so, you know, we do things like that. I work seven days a week. He was a pharmacist. We had our own store we had partners.

35:26 But that we had several stores and he he work 7 days a week on Sunday. He only work from 10 to 2. But everyday you really did and I which applications I mean you did that and his Partners would take over and that we like taking vacations and we should bring up before the interview over your other children. Yeah, I do have to still Lori is 18 months older than my next child whose name is Michael and then seven six years later. I had David. So those are my my three children and I could mention that Lori was very disappointed with both Birds because she wanted a sister and use these two boys, but then you did the same thing right then Lori had a daughter.

36:26 First just like I did and then she had two boys. I don't have any grandchildren to do I have six grandchildren. Michael has one child and David the baby has two children and Lori has three children like I did and they're all wonderful and I adore my grandchildren and I see them quite a bit and we're always in touch. And so I feel very very fortunate with so to end it like we started it again. It's my family that has meant the most to me in my life. There's no comparison to anything else.

37:05 You have any dreams are wishes for your grandchildren?

37:10 No, stay healthy.

37:13 Love each other and stay healthy.

37:17 You know, I don't know how else to phrase it. Is there any anyting else that you want to talk about these last couple minutes? I'm sure I'll think of something after we leave but I can't think of anything now.

37:33 Not in a good life. It's been a good life. I mean I had my husband was only 51 when he died. I mean that that was my the biggest tragedy of my life that he never got to meet his grandchildren and he would have loved having grandchildren. He died just before my first grandchild was born and so that would be my biggest tragedy. I was 49 and he was 51.

38:03 So why that was sad and it is it still is it still isn't it? Every time of grandchild was born that went through my mind all my God. He would love this. Yeah.

38:18 So well

38:20 Any maybe he knows maybe who knows? I'll find out right? I'll find out.

38:36 Yes, I want them to love each other. I want them to see each other. I want them to.

38:46 To reminisce about their lives the good things and perhaps some of the bad things because everyone does have bad thing. So that's what I want for them. I want them to be to be closed until I want them to be there for each other. That's how I wanted to say it. I want them to be there for each other.

39:08 And so that's what I would wish for my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to be there for you know.

39:17 Remember each other

39:19 And we will also be looking hopefully down.