Cheryl De Cero and Kaitlin De Cero

00:02 My name is Caitlin de cero, I'm 32 years old today is June 16th, 2018. And where in Chicago Illinois and I am going to interview my mom today.

00:18 My name is Cheryl Lucero. I'm 63.

00:23 Today's date is June 16th, 2018. Where in Chicago Illinois and I'm being interviewed by my daughter.

00:33 Alright, well, let's get going. So when and where were you born? I was born in Chicago on the Southside and I grew up for the most part in South Shore area.

00:49 And what was it like growing up there? It was great. It was a wonderful wonderful neighborhood area to grow up in there was always a lot of access to a lot of things, you know for the city. You could always pick a bus or train anywhere. It was wonderful.

01:05 Gift for your favorite things to do

01:10 Actually back then course, it's always back with there was a lot of freedom, you know, you could have bicycle everywhere you wanted to around the city or the South side at least anyway, and you could go to movies you could do so many things on your own as a child. You didn't need anyone to drive you everywhere, which am I afraid isn't so true today. So it was it was a great way to grow up. I wish I could do that for now feel like to ride your bike. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I loved it anywhere in particular that you'd go. But yeah, I'll probably forbidden places. I had a bad habit of going a little bit further than I was supposed to or going to the beach. I love to go to the Rainbow Beach. I was right off 75th Street and we lived a little west of there, but it was really just a little bit of a drive or ride on the bike or 79th Street. There was a lot of shopping in movie theaters up there to go to to the old Avalon used to actually be in the movie theater now, I believe it's a church.

02:04 And there was so many so much access to things you could do. It was it was fun. I really was fun. And who would you go with? Well, there was an older friend of mine that live down the street. Her name was Peggy victorine and we used to hang out a lot and maybe that helped because she was older and we could get around a little bit more and her father owned a business on Stephanie and I streets of that. It was one of the first McDonald's in that area. So we used to go up there a lot. So that kind of broaden our Horizons, you know.

02:40 But I grew up and I went to Catholic School lyrics till their Saint Philip Neri. Why did you like school? Yeah, what's your favorite part about? It? Probably history. I liked history a lot.

02:59 Okay, what about your parents? You know I didn't they both passed away when I was pretty young. So I don't remember know a whole lot about them. But thinking back to when you were growing up, you know, what kind of parents were they what were they like well well

03:15 I think my mom was they were little bit older when they I was born. I think my mom was in her thirties. They said there was very very close to Nature. They were both around the same age and they both always seem to work. They always worked on my father's to work for the railroad that he worked more or less than a ministrative end of it for the Rock Island Railroad in the Illinois Central Railroad. He was pretty much there all his life and then towards the end. He he branched out. He worked for HART Schaffner & Marx in Chicago.

03:53 And I'm

03:55 My mom always work to also usually closer to home jobs different let store jobs things like that where she could make her hours work, you know for retail has no she'd work. So yeah, but that had grew up with a good work ethic I'd say

04:13 Were they tough parents or were they pretty hands-off for?

04:20 I'd say well say you're both Irish Catholics are there was a lot of guilt there. And so there really wasn't any Hands-On type of discipline. It wasn't necessary was more or less implied Meadow kind of told the road or whatever you can do the right thing all the time and how but they were they were good parents. They really were I just don't remember them having a lot of fun together because I guess they were always busy working. We didn't really wasn't a big thing to go on vacations and stuff like that either, you know, but I was fortunate I grew up in an area and then are in my neighborhood. I still had a lot of extended family, I grew up around aunts and uncles and my grandmother live close by and that would that was a very rich for me because my parents were working a lot. So I did get to enjoy and learn a lot from them. I think.

05:20 Do remember getting in trouble when you were young? Yeah that I would I always felt pretty hard on myself when I was but I was a. Wright has a fascination with fire probably about I was young maybe 6 or 7, but I should have known better or maybe eight. I don't remember but I did like fire for some reason and I remember one time the fire fireman came to the house. So I must have done something kind of extreme involving setting things on fire little things that probably to get attention. Maybe I imagined my mommy was seem like things would happen when she was busy around the phone or something. So but I do have one time I went to that extreme and I don't ever remember doing it after that. I think that probably put the fear in me and then, you know till a fascination with a probably the worst thing that you didn't think I really don't remember doing too much else.

06:20 That was bad. I really don't feel sorry. I mean I figured it was I could get home in time before they found out, you know, Donna just passed away recently after that long battle with brain cancer. But what was she like growing up with?

06:51 She was fun. And Donna was fun. She was always the fun one. I'd say you she was there was seven years between us and and she would always like to push the limit a little bit more and I was probably more reserved and she was but she was always fun and exciting to be around. You know, she was the one that would take me to the beach in and do all the you know, they are too late and then if I was with her, I got to stay out too late with her and driving big Cocker said it was kind of exciting growing up with her and she always like to make a big thing of holidays and stuff or I think I don't know my parents were a little bit more serious. Maybe they weren't into that type of thing. We're done. I always love to make things special at Christmas time and

07:38 Yeah, she she really didn't cheat. Like I said she like to push the envelope a lot in and sometimes push people's buttons, but that was just her way, you know, she was that was just her way. It was probably one that would get him a lot more trouble than I did. So maybe that's why I didn't cuz I learned from the mistakes. I don't know. What was the difference in your age favorite memory with her from childhood or adolescence.

08:08 It was usually our job to get the Christmas tree living in the city and on the Southside. We didn't even need a car really because we'd commuted every everything was commuted over by train. So we would go down in March down and pick up the Christmas tree. It was probably about six or seven blocks away and then we drag it home and I mean it it sounds it doesn't sound like a great big tiny thing. But at the time it was pretty adventuresome for us cuz I was like about 6 and she was what 7 years old or so she was 13 1314. Yeah, whatever and so you know, it was It was kind of fun and she just always insisted on things, you know, maybe that would have happened if she didn't insist on certain things, but she was always The Pusher, you know, she didn't get enough credit for all those things. She should have it was going to get Christmas trees with her or anything. Yeah. She was always kind of

08:58 She's exciting. She was in trouble a little bit better when she was younger.

09:11 And so you guys I know there was going to be a brother a baby brother passed away right after birth child. You would have been the oldest have been about I think five or six years older than Aunt Donna. I thought he was going to be the youngest for some no, no. No, he wasn't he would have been the oldest and it was a sad birth year. He was born on it. He went full term when he was born on Mother's Day and he passed away on Thursday to so it was very sad for my mom and dad for a long time and they never really talked about and I think that was probably a big mistake and they never discussed it too much and you know, so how did you find out about it when I was older I learned about it and it was kind of like probably for my aunts and my grandmother, you know, I don't wasn't even from your mom or no. No we did. They didn't was only later that I learned how she had found out that she had a lot. You know, he had passed she'd overheard some nurses talking in.

10:11 Outside of her room there back then women would be heavily sedated and and and there was a lot of she was having a lot of complications. So she wasn't alive. I mean, I didn't mean that she was in a way for the birth of a lot of stuff. She didn't realize what's going on. And then she learned later that he had passed after she overheard, you know from another room but back then they didn't even attend the funeral on my father took care of all that with the family, but she was still in the hospital. So how it was a lot different than it had to be hard for closure for you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah and then 7 years later for me. So yeah, it wasn't them know.

10:52 Interesting. Yeah, I never thought of it, but it was it's true.

10:56 So, you know, you said you liked School you enjoy your like history. What did you want to be when you grow up? What's your first memory of what you want to be?

11:08 I think I thought I wanted to go into social work and help children, you know, that was probably one of my first Little Talks by Of not quite sure why I I don't know. I don't remember why I just always felt like I would like to do that.

11:28 I meant I don't know. I don't know what the thing was but I always thought there was such a need for kids to be helped, you know little young children, especially and I always sort of was attracted to little kids and all I enjoyed later on. Like when I worked at Montessori instead of helping you knowing and being with the kids being assistant teacher. It was fun. I don't know I just always was more interested in their what they were going through mentally or you know father there how they were dealing with things at home and sit on the family issues. Yeah.

12:05 When you were a kid like where there are things that you dreamt about accomplishing or things that you really wanted to do that you were call today whether they happened or not.

12:17 I took a question. Of course, we all have those dreams when we're young and thoughts of what we want to do. I guess I always thought I'd want to travel a lot and I always thought it would be so nice to her. If I didn't have my own children always thought it would be nice to have children of different racial backgrounds. You know, I like adopt children. Children in and have some sort of like a rainbow type of family, you know, I thought that would be really neat.

12:47 And

12:52 Cuz I always I don't know. I think I always figured I would finish college and it didn't turn out so well there that way but that was another idea or plan or wish but it seemed like a good time. I got closer to it. It didn't work out. So I guess it wasn't one of those things. It was supposed to talk more about that. So when you graduated high school, you look kind of like a fork in the road for PPL. You know, what was your path from there? And how did how did you make that decision? Okay layout

13:23 Growing up on that on the very far far south side because after we lived in South Shore, we moved further further south to the Hegewisch area, which was such a dismal place. I'd hate to say it but it was compared to where we had grown in a lift before because your access to things was so I cut off and it wasn't a fun town to live in compared to where we had been so and everything was all about work work work and it was you were surrounded by steel industry the Auto industry Pullman to the West so it was more Lessa you went to high school and you if you were lucky enough to be able to go away to college that was fine. But the majority of the kids I went to school with really didn't they usually saw jobs in the industries that we are around the you know where we were growing up at the time and so I ended up doing the same thing basically.

14:23 I work downtown for a couple of years. I worked for Marshall Field's which came Macy's and then I was like your first job out of clerical work, but they're very a very conservative company back then. Anyway, that was you had two women who were never wore pants. It was very very altered even while other places at change that place is still back in the bygone days. So I worked there for a couple may be out of here year-and-a-half. And now that I work down at the board election Commissioners in Chicago and that was kind of exciting this cuz of politics and getting to getting involved with different parts of the city and different Wards and registering voters. It was kind of a neat thing. I like that for a while and then I had an opportunity as she threw Aunt Donna she was I had returned to school to get her quiz on the sea for her high school diploma and at the time I was hanging out with her a little bit, you know, and I would go with her.

15:23 And we heard of these jobs are opening up its at the steel mill near us and US steel South works and all a lot of the kids that were in this program or planning on going. So I went just for the heck of it to look into it and that's how I ended up working there. How old were you when you started in 19?

15:47 Same here. I got married 1976. Okay. So what was it like being 19 and a woman going into the steel mill? It was it was it was very difficult. Very difficult every night. I'd go in there. I think I'm not going back tomorrow. I'm not going back to this place again. First of all, you're your you know, what you're not working or not used to working in Industry like that. It's at such a rude awakening. It's it's amazing. When you go through those plain case what goes on and the different parts of the mill. It's a totally different environment to Smells. Everything is sulfur and I I was I was it was the summer of 76 when they because of affirmative action Concentra PJ, we're hiring a lot of women in trades in their trade positions and apprenticeships. They had always been not allowed to do that in the prior, you know ever before so they had to hire a lot of us, so we weren't exactly welcome.

16:47 Angela fold and I was placing the blast furnace is the one place your father told me if they put you there. You're not working there don't even think of it really finds out where I'm going tomorrow. So I ended up in there and it was it was it was difficult. It really was I mean sexual harassment. We hadn't even been to find you and I always think that it was our generation it and some of us a non-traditional roles. That's how it got its definition and it was very hard. It was very very hard. You were really not respected or welcomed in this in any kind of way for the most part or you were for the different wrong reasons that you wouldn't want to be really be welcome there and it was difficult. It was very difficult. You had a trust everybody and you couldn't trust anybody it was a tough position, you know, but there were other women that helped you had a close Bond.

17:42 So you mentioned dad obviously at this point you'd met him but I guess let's back up a little bit. So when did you meet Dad I met him when I was still in high school actually a friend of mine. Robin had invited me to go with her to look some kind of a youth group thing was awake. It was a weekend away. I guess all I know I got to go to leave the house. I'd be gone for 2 or 3 days and it was you know, I said, yeah sure I'll go so I didn't I didn't know too much about it, but it was actually a little religious group. It was it was called Youth for Christ. And even though I was a Catholic there was there was a lot of people there that were different Christian facing so I went and that's why I Met Your Dad now I went there and he was actually dating somebody else and we were in the backseat and on the way back coming home. I was in the front seat with him.

18:33 It was kind of a weird situation because they broke up over there. Yeah, it was a very unusual. Yeah kind of uncomfortable situation. Cuz we all the girls all share the same little area of the Roman. He wasn't real happy with me and I didn't you know, I didn't really mean to do anything wrong. I just I just sort of hit it off. So anyway, that's what I meant to do you like ask you on a date from there or a basketball game at school and then he did he had a basketball game so we can combine the two things. So I went to in formal wear to a to watch him play Black and play basketball again the last couple hours of the dance here, but it was all right. It was it was a forerunner to the store for cuz you always love to support so that was fine.

19:26 When did you like about him off the bat?

19:31 He seemed to know what he wanted. He always seem to kind of have a good eye on what he wanted what he wanted to do. Sometimes he would be a little bit more forceful. He tempered that a little bit and yours went on but you know, he was pretty to terminate to know it somehow I thought he was going to do it but I always had the felt he had the confidence he would find a way to do what he wanted to do when he would get it done. And he usually did you see dead. And of course he was older than me was 4 years older. So I was still in high school. He was already working out working guy, you know, and and and that was probably attractive to me to you know, because end and we probably had a little bit more, cuz he was maybe a little bit more mature than some of the kids. I was in high school with so yeah.

20:15 Speaking of him being I guess determined to my essay in like deciding what he wanted and going and get it yet. He had to propose three times, right? Yeah and tell me about that has the darndest things so well it was I was just not ready. I was like I said younger so and I knew that and I I just think I felt I want to be so certain and so sure and yet I also wanted to have some Independence when I was

20:46 Even though I married young I see you know that he was asking me when we're still in high school, which was this area known I wouldn't even consider that then, you know, but even afterwards I still wanted to have a year to on my own, you know, and I kind of almost got a year or two on my own as it turned out but it it I just wasn't ready yet. I knew I wouldn't feel ready. So I was always glad I did that weight is a little bit. So what about like the third was it three times without right? So what about the third time like felt it felt right or kind of like a loan? No, no. No. I had already been alone. And I had my own apartment for about a year then and any kind of came back into my life and and we were both a little bit more probably ready or more mature for it at the time. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I know the second time we've already had the hall and everything. He had everything planned and then

21:46 We called it off and that was I thought of all this he'll never talk to me again, but you guys like broke up. And then why did you call it off? I didn't I didn't feel ready. I knew it would take a lot for me to feel ready. And and I

22:09 I just I just had a feel right about it either. You know, it's all but you somehow find your way back together. What was your relationship like before you head off had kids?

22:28 Do you like a good 10 years? Right, right. Yeah, that's right. Well the first five or pretty tumultuous dear grandma, she kept our wedding cake the top Latino layer of the cake that you're supposed to and I I don't think she ever thought we would be even dare to have until I have it at the end of that year. We would make it through that first year, but we did we could we stuck it out. And of course it was odd because when I met him or what no one that would cause I wanted me to but when we got married he was still working and I just working at South works and before I even dreamed of her working there and you know, and and then he decided he didn't want to work there anymore. He was determined he knew what he wanted to do. It was one of those times like and where he knew what he wanted. And so he decided he was going to leave there and quit so he he was going to go through it and do that and it was like shocking to me cuz I thought wait a minute. This is

23:28 I'm going to be Rocky here while it wasn't consultation per se but and just as he was fighting to leave I decided to go in, you know, and I think that was part of the problem because he didn't really want me to be there, you know thinking what I would be probably what I would have to put up with their you know, and he was right about a lot of the stuff. I'm glad I still did it. Yeah.

24:01 So it's about it's with Wood Brothers tour to where I was working there now. So the first five years were two more thing was just kind of settled in or out then things got a little bit better. We settled in we bought a house always felt a little bit more probably more stable more like, you know, you got to remember to start his business then and then and out that's rough. Just want to know if itself that's a big thing, you know, so there was a lot going on and and so he muddled through it though, you know, we didn't throw you kind of the breadwinner for a while like bringing home the check for the steel mill and he was trying to get the business off the ground or yeah. Yeah, cuz of course his you know, depending on how he would get his contracts coming and you know for jobs at it was kind of iffy, you know, it was like it's pushing the beginning a lot of it by Word of Mouth then and the prior before that he started business. He was working for a couple of

25:01 Roofing companies in the area and they were it was difficult. He had a couple of difficult years, you know a lot of those fellows. Yeah, so but it worked out in the end it right or is he really formally started business in 1979? I say so those were her house. I think it was an 81 8081 and the house removing from now after all these years as the same home yet.

25:30 Okay, so

25:34 I mean you guys you didn't want to have kids at first is that right now though, you know what? It's not so much. I don't know if I didn't really want them but I I just wanted a lot of other stuff too. I wanted to enjoy one of the travel a little bit did you guys go and I didn't feel like it was had to be a necessary thing. Why do people steal that that you have to do, you know a b and c and I never felt like will you have to have children and I know like some people in my family felt. Well that's odd. Let's wrong. What's the matter with you that type of thing but I just never really felt like that had to be part of it. It didn't have to be part of it, but then I started to come around a little bit. I

26:16 I had a very good friend who was older than I was actually she had a daughter my age. In fact, and I met her through the mail and it was Alice Parrilla and

26:29 I think I think I learned a lot from her and I can rub her spending when Mother's Day with her. She was feeling that well, then she had cancer and and I wanted to spend some time with her. So I spent the day before Mother's Day with her.

26:43 And we went out to her garden and all she she kept talking all about her daughter, Jamie and how and I and I realized what a different part of her life. I never realized there was there was a different facet tour life. You didn't you could have it all sort of even though you had to make a lot of good especially in her generation a lot of compromises. It didn't come easy, but she was able to do it in the end and she was kind of coming towards the end in fortunately of her life is it turned out Jamie was the thing. That was the most important thing to her, and then I realize that I don't think I want to miss out on this part. I don't think I want I think it is something that I should, you know, open my mind to a little bit better. It doesn't have to be you no negative or doesn't have to be something where you're going to be tied down or it could be something you could welcome, you know, it was a very odd, but I know that affected me that and talking with her a lot and realizing things you

27:43 Random if I did time we get done a few things we had about to travel a little bit and don't think that settle down I felt we were more of a sure thing. I surely I never want to bring children into a araki in a relationship for a marriage. So and we seem to be like we were going to work it out. So I'm like the right time and where was that at? Like what was your interpretation of like his perspective on it?

28:09 I don't you have to like talk him into it when you decided you wanted to have kids or no. No, no, no. No, it just was a it just sort of evolved. It was we didn't really talk about it or discuss it was it was he was and then I guess I never realized I think cuz he was more ready and some of the stress of starting a business was getting a little bit better. I think he he welcomed just so much he was so excited when he found out. I thought Steve this is great. You know, this isn't this is how it should be. This is the way it's supposed to it's great. You know, it was real nice. I didn't have to talk him into anything. It is turned out where we were both kind of ready at the same time and and he was so excited. He really was but surprise me surprise everybody, you know to see that side of him.

29:01 Do you remember what was going through your head when you first saw me?

29:07 How is your first child when you were first born? Wow?

29:12 Amazement, just just total amazement it it was unbelievable and I it's very special each child. So special each person everything but there's just something about the first one because it's the first one and you just it's just a feeling of such an honest. You just can't believe it, you know.

29:34 Oh my gosh. Yeah, you you were remarkable and you've let you bask in the Limelight so much. You just loved all the and you were the first child for a long time to the first grandchild for a long time. So that was another big plus for you. I believe. How did you choose my name? I love the name Kaitlyn. I I love I love the poet Dylan Thomas and that was his wife's name Kaitlyn. That's the first time I've ever heard it. She spelled it. I think it was spelled with a c though and I kind of wanted to see I want to spell it with a c also but grandma grandma K kind of love the idea because she thought well that's almost like mine is Kate. She was in her she was already writing it out like to know Caitlin like that. I'm sure okay. Okay Mom and it was fine. It was still your name was still Caitlin's know where was fine, but

30:34 Influence me on the spelling part a little bit unique in our own ways. But like what's like one word you would use to describe each of us.

30:52 Oh, wow. I know it's hard. Yeah, that's that's a tough one to do it comes to your mind first. Okay.

31:02 I don't know for you. There's not one word vivacious. You're powerful. You're a leader your

31:13 Wow.

31:16 You are the sushi you you're just.

31:20 I don't know what more to say. I I don't I cuz I have to say something about everybody now and they're all getting here. This is much more introspective I think and then she's like an old soul in a way and and and she's so sensitive and special and and I love it about her. She just feels things a little differently.

31:47 And she's kind of intellectual. You know, she's just she's amazing to I mean you all are all of you are.

32:00 What Eddie Eddie Eddie is?

32:05 He's a big surprise to me. He really is Eddie was the one I always felt bad growing up because I never thought I got enough time with Eddie. Will you have daughters they take your time. I mean face it you're always involved with their little stuff and they're little things in an Eddie was always sort of there all the time of course, but I never felt I had my time with Eddie now, I feeling now that he's moved back from Delaware. I'm having my time with Eddie and I love it. We're getting closer all the time. And I really I really and I love the how he is with his his dog. I mean, I never realized he loved pet don't have anything. He just surprises the heck out of me and I love his ability how he's such a great mechanic how he can do everything and and he's got that same confidence in himself to Dad has when it comes to that, you know, he knows exactly what he's doing and he knows what he wants to do and and

33:00 And I like that find me that he saw me and said he can hickeys quite but he's just as driven as Dad in some ways and Cassie Cassie is amazing to you know, she really is she's just dumb.

33:16 She's

33:18 She sort of like a combination of all of you. It's kind of weird, but she she sort of like these she's very deep and in sweet and yet

33:30 She strives to be a lot like her older sister's she does she really does and I I love that about her and she's very open to everybody. She's very giving to everybody.

33:46 And I'm I just I'm so proud of all of you because you've all found something you love doing and you know, as far as your career wise and you're talented and and you're pursuing it and I love that. You know, it's like I'd love to have some kind of passion in your life for what you have to do with your life. You know, otherwise, it's not very fun. So I'm really happy that you've all found that

34:08 Okay. Well, I'm not married and I don't have children. But what advice would you give to Courtney's married, but the rest of us aren't yet? So what advice would you give to us on marriage or kids or Just family?

34:24 You and Dad kind of it figured out how mean well, yeah, but yeah, but we learned it. I guess kind of cuz we stuck together through a lot of stuff. But guess what it is. I guess you stick to it. You know, you stay stay with it if they each other if you're fortunate to find somebody that's a good really good person and somebody that cares about you deeply and and I guess that's the thing at if you really find somebody like that you try to make it work. I mean, there's always going to be differences and there's always going to be obstacles but it's it's very important to try to stick together cuz he doesn't come off in that way. You're that lucky.

35:09 So, you know we talked about a few things up to this point. What what do you still think about these to accomplish or you still want to do that? You want to live and experience?

35:28 I don't feel like I'm ready to retire yet. I know everybody's telling me I I should be doing that but I don't feel ready for that yet.

35:38 I

35:42 And I think I'd like to continue. I don't know if I'll be to continue the same job that I've been doing when I return but to back to work, but I'd like to continue for a few more years.

35:55 And

35:59 I still like to revisit becoming more involved with my union. I was so involved for so many years and things changed things happen things didn't work out so well that if certain of juncture there and I'm I kind of pulled back and I think

36:14 I feel like I'm that's where my passion always was that sparked me that friend of mine Alice. She was one of my mentors back then and we just recently lost that he said lowsky this weekend and he was another great mentor and I'd like to try to revisit that pardon.

36:34 If I swore meaning in that area, you know while I still can buy there still people that are involved so many good committed people that are trying to do the right thing. You know, I like to become part of that again.

36:52 Is there anything when you think back on your life that you're like I should have done this different or

37:00 Not necessarily regret, but just you in hindsight. I should have done this different. I think you have anything I've learned you. I wished I made most of every single day of my life. Not a procrastinator put anything off that I think I'll it is going to come around or it's going to happen or sometimes you just have to

37:22 I push forward and make it happen and and not settle for anything less than that. Make the most of every single thing every single day every single event.

37:34 Don't get complacent, you know and then try to be active and try to find something you feel passionate about and put 100% into it because that's what makes you feel alive. And you know, there's nothing worse than feeling like all regret regret. You don't want to do that when you get older you want to be able to say

37:54 You want to be all tired out for the right reasons? You don't want to be just tired all because you're tired out you want to make sure you've committed yourself to something and you've you've been a part of something bigger than yourself.

38:05 That's really important.

38:08 What are you most proud of?

38:11 I think I'm most proud of my family and that's that's the truth. I am a very proud of all of you so much.

38:21 And and I'm amazed because the way I would the hours I used to work. I don't know how you guys I always felt like I didn't give you enough time. Probably like I wanted to I know you still look at me funny if I'll be running to these rallies and I'm involved with these different things and jumping on buses and go into these different things and marching and protesting used to look at me. But now I know you hate this part of your world to which is I'm really proud of that. It's somehow in spite of what you saw it. You kind of adopted some of that even though at the time I don't think you were looking at it with smiles you didn't you didn't see that the thing but I'm really proud of that that you have and

39:10 I guess I am proud of it at the time of my life when I had gone into a non-traditional work and jobs and stuff. I'm glad I overcame a lot of that business that you had to overcome in order to survive in that environment, even though every night you not go back the next day and it was amazing. It was like a it it was remarkable. The first year was like I can't believe I've been here that long and then and you look back now you realize you spent your whole adult life and that environment one way or the other but there's been good positive changes to over the years, which is a good thing. Is that harassment and a lot of stuff has been worked out. I mean it's still there, but if it's not to the extent, of course, it was just to be thank God and

39:53 And I think you see what women in a lot of non-traditional roles in a lot of ways now and I would like to think that all of us were part of that, you know coming along on the 70s.

40:07 Well

40:09 I love you. I'm really glad you did this with me either anything else that you want to say that I haven't asked you about her.

40:17 Do you want to share?

40:20 I'm just did I I hope all of you will.

40:24 I imagine a little while ago about making the most of everything you've got and every all the time you have that's so important. It is is can never be understated because you did something you never get back this time and it's so important to know where you're headed and what you want to do and keep some Focus. I mean that total focus, but you have to be able to know you have it's a good to have a plan, you know, what sticks through it and see it through and just always remember you're just as good as everybody else, but not any better than anybody else either always have your heart open to everybody.