Sara Saltzman, Zachary Saltzman, and Jake Saltzman

Transcript

[00:01] SARA SALTZMAN: Hi, my name is Sara Fay Saltzman. I'm 85 years old. Today's date is December 27th, 2018, and we're in Chicago, Illinois, and my two grandsons, Zachary and Jacob, are going to ask me questions that I hope I can answer.
[00:29] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: My name is Zach Saltzman. I'm from Glenview, Illinois. I'm 21 years old. Today is December 27th, 2018. Um, and I am the grandson, the youngest grandson of Grandma Fay.
[00:46] JAKE SALTZMAN: Hi, my name is Jake Saltzman. I am 25 years old. Uh, today is December 27th, 2018. We are in Chicago, Illinois and I am the grandson of Sarah Fay Saltzman.
[00:59] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Perfect. Um, well, grandma, uh, we were really excited to do this with you. I know we've talked about a lot of this stuff over the years, but, um, you know, we know you've lived such an incredible life, and we just kind of want to delve into it a little more. Um, one of the places where I wanted to start was you were born, um, you know, to a family of immigrants, of Jewish immigrants at a time of great upheaval in the Jewish world. You know, the, uh, predecessors to the Holocaust were starting in Europe. Um, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what it was like to be Jewish during that time in the United States.
[01:37] SARA SALTZMAN: It was very normal. We lived on the West side, and the majority of the people there were Jewish. I, I convinced a girlfriend when I was nine that if she wasn't Jewish, she was Catholic and she was a Baptist.[chuckles]
[01:56] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: So you would say in the neighborhood you grew up and it was almost exclusively Jewish?
[02:00] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. Mhm.
[02:02] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And were you, would you say you were from mostly the same part of Europe or it was kind of Jews from different from different areas?
[02:09] SARA SALTZMAN: I really don't know. Some of them were born in Chicago, some came from Europe. Didn't make any difference.
[02:19] JAKE SALTZMAN: Huh. Can you describe where your mom and dad were from originally?
[02:22] SARA SALTZMAN: My mother was born in Izyum, Russia. At the time, don't know which part of Ukraine that my dad was born. And he came to this country at, um, about 7 or 8. My mom came as an adult in her 20s with her mother and her youngest brother.
[02:48] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And your- you've told us this before, but your- your first language was not English, right? It was...
[02:53] SARA SALTZMAN: No, it was Yiddish. But, um, the insurance man from Metropolitan Life gave us these little booklets. And I learned to read, uh, nursery rhymes through the little book in English. And we taught my mother. She had gone to night school to learn English, and whatever we learned in school, we came home and showed it to her and went over it.
[03:25] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: How's your Yiddish today?
[03:27] SARA SALTZMAN: Very, very bad.[chuckles] You either use it or lose it.[chuckles]
[03:32] JAKE SALTZMAN: Which is something that could be said of the language in general. Right?
[03:34] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. Mhm.
[03:36] MARY BESS SER: Do you remember what one of those nursery rhymes was that you first learned in English?
[03:41] SARA SALTZMAN: I liked Hey Diddle Diddle, the cat and the fiddle. The cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport. And the dish ran away with the spoon. And it was illustrated so it was really very nice, wow, to have that little book.
[04:02] JAKE SALTZMAN: [clears throat] Um, and obviously, you know, the- the area you lived in was- was very Jewish, but I assume there were times when you, you know, left that neighborhood, whether it was to go downtown or whatever the reason may be. Um, you know, I guess when you went to college because, you know, you went to- where did you go to college?
[04:23] SARA SALTZMAN: Chicago Teachers College, 6800 South Stewart in Chicago.
[04:30] JAKE SALTZMAN: Um, tell us a little bit about that, because, you know, this was a time when not a lot of women were able to to go to higher education like that.
[04:37] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, don't, um, lay off. I had no debt when I came out of college. It was $5 a semester, plus books. And when it went up to ten, that was a blow. It was a lot of money.
[04:57] JAKE SALTZMAN: No doubt it.
[04:58] SARA SALTZMAN: And I worked all through high school and college.
[05:02] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Where did you work?
[05:04] SARA SALTZMAN: Oh, um, my first job was at a bakery on the west side. And then I worked at Crosskeys, which was a store, and I worked in an office, Liberty Mutual Insurance, typing, and then, um,, I was a camp counselor at the JCC, and I also worked at Pele Royal. It was lingerie. I had the most beautiful lingerie.
[05:42] JAKE SALTZMAN: You play discount, right?[laughs]
[05:45] SARA SALTZMAN: And, um, I was always working.
[05:49] JAKE SALTZMAN: So with you doing all this other stuff. Why- why did you want to go to, you know, Chicago Teachers University? What was- what was your thought?
[05:59] SARA SALTZMAN: Because...
[05:00] JAKE SALTZMAN: Oh, sorry.
[06:01] SARA SALTZMAN: Women had a choice of jobs. Nurse, secretary, or teacher. I couldn't be a nurse. Secretary was boring and I loved kids. So teacher was the choice.
[06:17] JAKE SALTZMAN: And going to a school like that was helpful in doing that?
[06:21] SARA SALTZMAN: Oh, yeah.
[06:21] JAKE SALTZMAN: Okay.
[06:21] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And what years were you in college from?
[06:24] SARA SALTZMAN: 1951 to 1955. But I came out a semester early.
[06:33] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And what was your first teaching job?
[06:36] SARA SALTZMAN: At the Walsh, um, elementary school. And that was, uh, in Canal Port in Chicago. And the principal also, he had the Youngman Elementary.[clears throat] And after a couple of weeks, there was a vacancy at both schools and I got to choose which one, and I chose Youngman and I was there for 33 years.
[07:08] JAKE SALTZMAN: Wow.
[07:09] SARA SALTZMAN: So I must've liked it.
[07:11] JAKE SALTZMAN: Clearly, clearly.
[07:12] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: So you taught until 1991?
[07:15] SARA SALTZMAN: '93.
[07:16] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: '93. Okay.
[07:18] SARA SALTZMAN: And then I decided to retire and take care of my grandsons, which I have four of.
[07:25] JAKE SALTZMAN: Four. Um, you know, kind of like what we were talking about before. Obviously, you grew up in a, you know, heavily Jewish area when you started teaching, when you went to school, you know, kind of branched off a little. Your husband, Grandpa Saul, um, worked on Maxwell Street, right?
[07:43] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. And I also worked there...
[07:46] JAKE SALTZMAN: What did you do there?
[07:47] SARA SALTZMAN: ...on the weekend. Uh, we had, um, blue jeans, and we put them out on uh, boards in front of the store and they were $10 each. And you come up and I show you the sizes. And there was no trying on. You bought it. It was yours.
[08:13] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And so this was your own story or Saul store?
[08:16] SARA SALTZMAN: Mhm.
[08:16] JAKE SALTZMAN: Was- you know, I've always been curious about this. Was this a profitable enterprise? Like did they make money off of it?
[08:22] SARA SALTZMAN: Sure.
[08:22] JAKE SALTZMAN: Okay.
[08:23] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, they didn't pay $10 for the jeans.
[08:26] JAKE SALTZMAN: Sure.
[08:26] SARA SALTZMAN: And they didn't pay me for working on the weekend. And, um..
[08:33] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: How much was rent at the time, you think to rent out a store or did you..?
[08:37] SARA SALTZMAN: I don't know that.
[08:39] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Mhm.
[08:40] SARA SALTZMAN: It was...
[08:41] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Pretty cheap.
[08:42] SARA SALTZMAN: Pretty- well and pretty crummy looking. But, um, we did have a lot of customers.
[08:51] MARY BESS SER: Can you explain, um, for people who don't know what Maxwell Street Market was like with the kind of unwritten rules and...?
[08:57] SARA SALTZMAN: It was, um, it was start- Maxwell Street was started when Christian stores were closed on Sunday in Maxwell Street were peddlers and they worked on Sunday because years ago they were religious and they didn't go down there on Saturday. Of course, now it's totally different and there were many stands and you could get bargains, and you could also get gypped if you didn't know what you were looking for. But we were very legitimate. A lot of the jeans were seconds, but you couldn't find what the second was. And, um, you know, when factories make something and there's a flaw in the material or the sizes aren't true, but...
[09:58] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: You get it.
[09:59] SARA SALTZMAN: We'd buy it in job lots or returns. They were all brand new, and, uh, we didn't have Levi's except for one pair[chuckles] that was the hand-me-down of one of my nephews. And it was...
[10:17] JAKE SALTZMAN: That you then resold at the store?
[10:19] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, we only put it on the board.
[10:22] JAKE SALTZMAN: Gotcha.
[10:22] SARA SALTZMAN: So to keep the new pants clean.
[10:26] JAKE SALTZMAN: Gotcha.
[10:27] SARA SALTZMAN: And some men went through it, and it had holes. Before, holes were popular in jeans. And, um, this man said, I'll come back. Well, when they say I'll come back, they don't. And I put it back under the pile, and he came back a little bit later and said, do you have two pairs like that? I said, no that's the last one. With the straight face, I went, we sold them out. He took it for $10. A used pair of Levi's with holes.
[11:05] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Can you describe what the story looked like from the outside? Or maybe some other stores next to it?
[11:11] SARA SALTZMAN: They were all very, very old. The, um, the tailor was on the second floor,[clears throat] and you could get a pair of pants shortened for $2, and if you bought the dress pants or something, we'd get them with an open bottom, and it was worth it to give them a ticket to get them shortened. They made money.
[11:41] JAKE SALTZMAN: See, I always was was curious about that. I, um...
[11:46] SARA SALTZMAN: It started out as work clothes in the name of the store was Mother's Threads. You know why?
[11:55] JAKE SALTZMAN: Why?
[11:57] SARA SALTZMAN: That's what the sign said when they took over the store.[chuckles]
[12:03] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And when did they- they sell the store? They could not afford...
[12:06] SARA SALTZMAN: No, it just went out of business because Maxwell Street became very up ified. Mhm. And we also had a store on Halstead for a short time called Mendel's after my husband, uh, grandpa's father. Mhm.
[12:25] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Mhm. So what jobs did your husband or grandpa do besides work on mother's threads?
[12:30] SARA SALTZMAN: Uh, he worked for Carol's Menswear in their warehouse. Um, samples- he would send out samples to institutions when he got out of the army. He always worked on Maxwell Street for his uncle. And then with his brother. They bought the store with the stuff in it, and they were there for 20 years. They must have made some money.
[13:01] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Wow.
[13:02] JAKE SALTZMAN: Clearly. Um, and then it's funny you mentioned that because that was one of the other things I wanted to ask about. Um, you know, while you were a teacher and while he was working on Maxwell Street. You guys, uh, you bought a house, right?
[13:16] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. We were living with my parents for a while, about seven years. And every time we'd see a house that we liked, we couldn't afford it. It was a little more than we had planned. And I did want to stay in Chicago because I worked in Chicago, and I loved the city. But the houses that we could afford in the city, either there was something wrong, or it was more than we could pay. So Skokie was very close. And we look whenever we were on the north side and we found a house we liked.
[14:04] JAKE SALTZMAN: And and by this time, obviously, I know Skokie had become a pretty large center of Jewish life. Um, when you were looking for houses in Chicago, did you find that there were landlords or parts of the city that were hostile to you living there as a Jew or anything like that, any restrictive covenants or anything like that?
[14:23] SARA SALTZMAN: My mother and father found that before they bought their house.
[14:27] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: How so?
[14:29] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, they were told they wouldn't be happy there. And[chuckles] and then they raised the price. And 1951, they bought a brand new house. It was a tract house that I thought was a mansion, but it was a house. Mm. And, um, it was...
[14:54] JAKE SALTZMAN: But there were other houses they had been kind of directed away from because...
[14:58] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes.
[14:59] JAKE SALTZMAN: ...because they were Jewish?
[14:00] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. Mhm.
[15:02] JAKE SALTZMAN: Um, and then that was part of why you wanted to move to Skokie. Right? Was that it?
[15:05] SARA SALTZMAN: Right. Because I wanted to make sure that my children would be able to go to Hebrew school. I had very strict things. They had to be able to walk to the elementary school, walk to the Hebrew school, and I had to be close to public transportation to get into the city.
[15:31] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And what would you take to get into the city every day?
[15:35] SARA SALTZMAN: I would take a bus on Howard Street to the, which is now the red line. I would get on the L, which I hated, and go downtown, get off any place, take a bus to 18th Street and another bus to my school. Or if I was going to visit my parents, we'd get off on State Street and get the Archer bus to go southwest.
[16:08] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: So you take three buses and a train to get to work every day?
[16:12] SARA SALTZMAN: Only for about a month.
[16:14] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Okay.
[16:14] SARA SALTZMAN: Because then I got into a carpool.
[16:17] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Oh, okay.
[16:17] SARA SALTZMAN: With a teacher who lived in Skokie and another one in Lincolnwood, and that was very nice.
[16:24] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Seems like a good plan.
[16:26] SARA SALTZMAN: Mhm.
[16:26] JAKE SALTZMAN: And your parents, who we haven't talked about a little bit or we haven't talked about yet. Tell us a little bit about them because I know you obviously had to be able to see them when you were living in Skokie too.
[16:35] SARA SALTZMAN: I saw them every weekend.
[16:38] JAKE SALTZMAN: And can you just tell us a little bit about who- who your parents were?
[16:41] SARA SALTZMAN: Ray Friedman. She was a seamstress. That's how she met my dad. He was a mechanic. He would set up sewing machines and factories. He could do anything. He was very, very handy. And, um...
[17:03] MARY BESS SER: What was your father's name?
[17:05] SARA SALTZMAN: Joseph Freedman. He was called either Joe or Jack or Jake, depending.
[17:13] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Really?
[17:13] SARA SALTZMAN: Yeah, well, it was actually Jacob[clears throat] and um...
[17:19] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: He had such a versatile name.[chuckles]
[17:19] SARA SALTZMAN: And it was it was pretty good. You know, they would take the Pulaski bus and there were two, one from where they live to 31st, then change to another bus and get off at the end of the line on Petersen. And either Grandpa or I would pick them up when they came to visit.
[17:48] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Do you ever experienced, like any anti-semitism growing up in Chicago? Like, directly or indirectly?
[17:54] SARA SALTZMAN: Probably indirectly, I ignored them.
[17:57] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Yeah.
[17:59] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, there was a teacher who made a comment about doing them down, and she turned beet red when she saw that I was on the other side of the room. And I just thought, there's no point in going into it. She knew I heard, and she did apologize.
[18:25] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: That's good.
[18:26] SARA SALTZMAN: Umm.
[18:26] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: So at your school that you taught at, like, what were the demographics of the teachers and maybe of the students, or did that change as your tenure or not?
[18:34] SARA SALTZMAN: It changed. It was, um, Czech, Polish, Bohemian, and gradually it became Hispanic, mainly from Mexico. And there were some black students, and for a while I was the only Jewish teacher there.
[18:56] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Really?
[18:57] SARA SALTZMAN: Mhm. And guess what? I was the one that moved the piano into the hall the day before winter break, and we all sang Christmas carols[chuckles] and it was fun. And I think they're still doing it today.
[19:15] JAKE SALTZMAN: Wow. That's incredible. So you started that tradition?
[19:18] SARA SALTZMAN: Mhm.
[19:19] JAKE SALTZMAN: Wow.
[19:20] SARA SALTZMAN: Yeah.
[19:20] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Can you talk a little about what it was like raising three children and also working every day as a teacher?
[19:27] SARA SALTZMAN: Well I had wonderful help. Mary Hunt had been a cleaning lady for many years and she was a friend of a handyman that my Aunt Caroline used. And I said, I need a baby sitter. I can't leave three kids and go to work. And, um, she came to interview me, and she was wonderful. She, the only thing she couldn't do was cook. She opened a can of sardines for three kids and herself for lunch, and I decided I would make lunch for everybody, and, um, but she cleaned. She did windows. Winter, summer. My house was spotless. Oh, yeah.
[20:35] JAKE SALTZMAN: It's...
[20:37] SARA SALTZMAN: Go ahead.
[20:37] JAKE SALTZMAN: No. Since it's it's incredible that you were able to, you know, raise three kids have, you know..
[20:43] SARA SALTZMAN: I was young.
[20:44] JAKE SALTZMAN: ...have that house, um, you know while being a teacher and while your husband, you know, worked at a kind of small business like that. I just, I think a lot about how, um, that's a lot harder now, you know, has a lot of those things would not be...
[20:57] SARA SALTZMAN: Oh yes.
[20:58] JAKE SALTZMAN: ...but, you know, would not be as, as feasible. Um, we were talking about your kids earlier, and one of my favorite stories is how, um, our dad, Paul, your son, um, was what? He was 16 when the Vietnam War ended, right? 17, 16.
[21:14] SARA SALTZMAN: Somewhere around there, I don't.
[21:16] JAKE SALTZMAN: So what if he had gotten drafted? You know, if the war had gone on for another couple of years. What- where were your plans?
[21:22] SARA SALTZMAN: I was ready with my sister-in-law to take our kids and moved to Canada.
[21:30] JAKE SALTZMAN: And was was this a serious plan? Like you were really?
[21:32] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, we didn't really put anything down. But grandpa has relatives in Canada. We had visited there, and I thought that wouldn't be a bad idea.
[21:46] JAKE SALTZMAN: So you wouldn't have just sent him. You all would have gotten up and gone to Canada.
[21:50] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, it never came to that. We talked about it.
[21:54] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And how old were the, um, your two daughters at the time? If Paul was 17.
[22:00] SARA SALTZMAN: Eileen was 15 and Ruthie was 14 or 13, depending on what month it was, because they're basically two years apart.
[22:12] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Can you talk a little bit about- about Ruthie?
[22:15] SARA SALTZMAN: Um.[pause] Ruthie was all three kids, including Grandpa and I, were born at Mount Sinai Hospital, and Ruthie was the only summer baby in June.
[22:37] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Like me and Jake?
[22:38] SARA SALTZMAN: Yes. Mhm. And she was such a good baby and a beautiful little girl. Unfortunately, when, um, your dad went to, uh, McAllister and Eileen's first year at Georgetown. Ruthie was still working at the bakery, and she just was having a hard time. And I thought maybe she was jealous that they went away. And she had learned to drive a brand new car, and, um, she was having difficulty. She would fall up the stairs. She couldn't put the cookies together at the bakery, had trouble tying the box, and it just wasn't right. And I called the doctor and made an appointment, and he said, you have to go over my head. He wanted us to see a neurologist and they at that time, if you had to have tests and things, they put you in the hospital. It wasn't this outpatient.[light cough] And, um, they just couldn't figure out what was wrong. She became paralyzed on her left side, and we had stairs in our house, and I- I just looked at her and said, you're not going to be on one floor. You have an upstairs cane and a downstairs. I had, um, Carpenter come in and put in a railing on both sides, make sure they were real sturdy. Aunt Ruthie Anne swung on it to make sure it would carry her weight and I just told Ruthie you could walk. Holding on.
[24:48] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: And Ruthie was 16 at this time, and my dad was 20?
[24:53] SARA SALTZMAN: He was, um...
[24:55] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: 21? 19?
[24:56] SARA SALTZMAN: He was in college.
[24:57] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: He was a sophomore, I believe.
[24:58] SARA SALTZMAN: And I never got to see him play soccer. I was just overwhelmed. This was September. By December, they discovered an inoperable brain tumor. They did a biopsy, and, um, they couldn't operate. It was like mixing salt and pepper. And you can't separate it then. I can't tell you how many tears. Um, I would go to work and she would be in the hospital, and I'd get a call. You know, work started at 8:30. By 9, 10 o'clock, it would be Ruthie. She was having an allergic reaction to whatever tests they were doing. And I would go into the principal and say, I have to leave. And another teacher would come in for my kids and I would take off. I never got a ticket, but I know I drove too fast and crying and, um, I'd get there and she'd calm down and eventually, um, that was at Russ North Shore, not North Shore. It was on the west side. And we had a choice either get mugged going to the parking lot or mugged coming from the parking lot. It was terrible. And, um and then the first time she was at Skokie, and then she was at Lutheran, and they were the very, very best. There was a Lutheran minister there, Lea Johnston, and he had a group of young people, and it was make to the account, not that we needed more to do, but we would go there with her, and it seemed to meet her needs, and that was what was important. And then 1978, the worst year of my life, Eileen, was a, oh, Ruthie went with friends. I showed them how to put the wheelchair in the trunk and do kid things, not to always go with mom.
[27:46] SARA SALTZMAN: And we took Eileen to school in D.C. and our car caught fire in Youngstown, Ohio. We had to rent a car. We had to stay overnight, and that was fine. We had a car because we had Eileen's bicycle and the bicycle rack and the wheelchair, a few other little things. We got to Washington, D.C., and nobody even thought about eating. We went into the holiday and where we were staying. We went for breakfast and Grandpa collapsed. So I had a good friend, Dorothy O'Malley, who was bringing their daughter to Georgetown so she stayed with Ruthie. Her husband, Mike, helped Eileen unpack. He rode the bike up to her apartment or house, wherever she was staying at that time. And I went in the ambulance with Grandpa. We were supposed to come back in a couple of days, and we wound up being there for a week, and it was like, don't stay away from stress and remember to eat. And when they discharged him from the hospital, we looked like refugees seeking asylum. He had the bracelet on his hand. He hadn't shaved for a week. Ruthie on the wheelchair. I had piled the pillow and the stuff from the car on top of her in a little train case. And I didn't know you weren't supposed to wheel yourself to the airplane. And I almost tipped the whole thing over. And we got on the airplane, sat down and got the giggles because I then found a little scissors and cut the, um, bracelet off of his wrist, and it was just hysterical. We got to O'Hare. The cab driver would not take us. I didn't know that a Chicago cab couldn't go to Skokie. So this brave grandma called Uncle Abby, who had five cars at the time.
[30:29] JAKE SALTZMAN: Saul's brother?
[30:30] SARA SALTZMAN: Yeah, I said..
[30:31] JAKE SALTZMAN: [unintelligible] five cars?
[30:31] SARA SALTZMAN: ...we need a car. Can we borrow a car? We have no more money in the cab won't take us unless we take two cabs. So he came with a station wagon or- or the old[unconfirmed name]. I don't remember which. He let us use the car. That was in September. And our car was being repaired in Ohio. And then Ruthie and I took a plane to Youngstown, Ohio to get the car. We got into the car. It went as far as the toll booth, and it got stuck. Now she's half paralyzed, and there was a hammer in the bottom that, um, I don't know why it was in the car, but some man was walking towards the car and she picked up the hammer with her good hand. And I just stood there, and they're telling me you have to get out of the toll booth. I said, do you move? The car won't go. Anyhow, he, uh, this man came to help. We got a cab. We went back to the hotel and we had to stay overnight. When we got to the hotel room, Ruthie called Grandpa to tell him where we were and I burst out crying. I had just had it. We took a plane home, took us into the house. He flew out a week later to get the car and had to stop. I guess the radiator sprung a leak or whatever and he drove it home. And by the time he got to Skokie, it was smoking and terrible. But then about a month later Ruthie died and that was absolutely the worst time of anybody's life. And we had, um, a funeral and all the kids were, it was November 1st, and Eileen came in and Paul came in.
[33:07] SARA SALTZMAN: Everybody was there and all their friends, and it was just the most horrible time of life, and I could not settle down. I was like, wired. And we got through the seva at home. And then, um, Grandpa and I went to Las Vegas, which I hated. We were there for three days, and you talk about the store and the store paid for it. And, um, and then Eileen's birthday is November 3rd. And when I got back from the funeral in Las Vegas, I put together a birthday box for Eileen and sent her a package with cake mix, candle party napkins, the blowers, balloons which she didn't like, and frosting for the cake and popcorn. And her friends, um, helped her celebrate her birthday late.
[34:28] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: How did Grandpa saw Eileen and Paul? Like, how did how did they handle Ruthie's death?
[34:34] SARA SALTZMAN: Grandpa never got over it. He would talk to her baby picture and he'd look at it and cry. Your dad was at, um, urban studies at that time. In the city-
[34:52] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: In Chicago?
[34:52] SARA SALTZMAN: Yeah. And I really[coughs] it's sort of a blur and that was that. It was terrible. You would have loved her, and she would have adored you.
[35:10] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: I'm sorry I never met her.
[35:12] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, I have some pictures, and she's a redhead.
[35:15] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: She's a redhead. I'm a redhead, and she's a redhead.
[35:17] SARA SALTZMAN: Right. And your dad, you know, in two cousins of your- of your dad are redheads. And Eileen was a little blonde. Is there anything else quickly?
[35:34] JAKE SALTZMAN: Um, yeah. There is, so, um, I think we probably only have time for one...
[35:39] SARA SALTZMAN: No.
[35:39] JAKE SALTZMAN: ...one more question here.
[35:40] SARA SALTZMAN: Mhm.
[35:41] JAKE SALTZMAN: Um. Zach you wanna, you wanna ask her?
[35:47] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: What is the biggest change you've seen in the world since you were a kid or in Chicago or in the world? What have you noticed that just most...
[35:57] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, I think women have gotten a little better, you know, more, um, not powerful, but they're outspoken more, and I like that.
[36:14] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Would you call yourself a feminist?
[36:16] SARA SALTZMAN: I think I always was.
[36:20] JAKE SALTZMAN: Well, I...
[36:20] SARA SALTZMAN: I liked Marshall Field's. They gave me credit on my name.[chuckles] Well, you know, that's a good thing.
[36:30] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: It is.
[36:31] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, I really love you guys so much.
[36:35] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: I love you so much, grandma.
[36:37] SARA SALTZMAN: And it's been fun.
[36:41] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: It's been fun.
[36:42] MARY BESS SER: What were they like as kids? What did you like about taking care of them?
[36:46] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, they lived in Florida for a few years, and then they moved to Chicago and stayed with us for a short time. And I was a nervous wreck when Zach really didn't know stairs. He was two.
[37:04] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: It's true. I moved to Chicago when I was two.
[37:06] SARA SALTZMAN: And instead of walking up the middle of the stairway, he walked on the outside of the stairs and I thought,[chuckles] if he falls, there's concrete. I just was a nervous wreck. And you went to school. It's same place where you're dad and you're...
[37:25] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: East Prairie.
[37:25] SARA SALTZMAN: And- East Prairie.[crosstalk] And, uh, you were there for a year and a half or so, and then you moved to Glenview. And I love taking you for cello, and I love picking you up at school. And you wouldn't even look. You looked down.
[37:43] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: I was a shy kid.
[37:44] SARA SALTZMAN: Oh, you're so shy.[chuckles] But you've outgrown it.
[37:48] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: I think so.
[37:49] SARA SALTZMAN: And I just love you guys so much. And I'm glad that you're friends with your other cousins.
[37:59] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: So you have your oldest grandson, Josh is in Cambridge, about to move in New York. He's 20. He's 26.
[38:04] SARA SALTZMAN: Uhu. And the youngest, uh, well, Josh's brother Noah is in Austin.
[38:11] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Austin, Texas.
[38:11] SARA SALTZMAN: And it was nice you exchanged places with him.
[38:16] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Jake lived in Austin and then moved to DC. Then Noah lived in D.C. and moved to Austin.
[38:20] SARA SALTZMAN: Well, he was in Virginia.
[38:21] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Virginia.
[38:22] JAKE SALTZMAN: Well, we've we've all been lucky that we have such a fabulous grandma. Um, well, Grandma, thank you again for your generosity. And- and now and always. And we we love you.
[38:32] SARA SALTZMAN: I love you, too.
[38:33] ZACHARY SALTZMAN: Thank you so much for speaking with us.
[38:34] JAKE SALTZMAN: Thanks, Grandma.