Jason McInnes and Mareva Lindo

[00:02] JASON MCINNES: My name is Jason McInnes I'm 42 years old. Today's date is June 6, 2019. The location is Chicago, Illinois, and Moreva and I are colleagues at the Old Town School of Folk Music.

[00:21] MEREVA LINDO: And my name is Mereva Lindo I am 31. Today's date is June 6, 2019. We're in Chicago, Illinois, and Jason is a coworker of mine at the Old Town School of Folk Music. So, Jason I think my first memory of you is, like, I grew up going to the Old Town School, like, since I was little and going to the Square Roots. Well, what is now called Square Roots and used to be called the Falcon Roots Festival, because I lived in Albany Park. Lincoln Square was, like, my neighborhood. And I have, like, this early memory of you before I really knew you, just, like, busking on, like, a corner.

[01:03] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Cool.

[01:04] MEREVA LINDO: And I just remembered, like, you had, like. I was like, oh, what a cool voice. And, like, I think it was like you and probably Jonas Frittle were playing around, like, at different points. Like, I'd encounter you in your, like, jug band life. So you've been someone who I've, like, known to be around.

[01:19] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Cool lot.

[01:21] MEREVA LINDO: And you worked in a music store, as I understand. I probably encountered you there, because that's my music store. But. So remind me of how you first, like, kind of got involved at the school.

[01:32] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, I started as a student in 2000, and it was. Yeah, I had graduated or I started at the school in 2001. I graduated college in 2000, and I had actually moved to Chicago to go to a music conservatory and had a nervous breakdown about two weeks in. And then I didn't play music for five years.

[02:01] MEREVA LINDO: Wow.

[02:02] JASON MCINNES: I graduated college not doing music, and then almost immediately, like, my heart was like, hey, you can get back to music now. No one's grading you anymore. And then. And then I was like, oh, I think that there's this place called the Old Town School where you can just go. And then that's what I did. I signed up one summer, two classes. Guitar fretboard theory with Steve Levitt. And I think it was called the Early Country Ensemble. Now it's called Vintage country with Paul and Gail Tyler. And immediately I was like, oh, you all been here the whole time? Great. I think I'm going to stay here.

[02:52] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. You were inculcated then with these people who had been around the school for, like, 20, 30 years at that point. Yeah, some of the people who stuck around the longest. So you. Is that part of how I was kind of curious how you got sort of enamored with the school's history and with Winstraki in particular. Not everyone does.

[03:11] JASON MCINNES: Yes, well, so then it was interesting. So I started in the summer of 2001, and then I was at the school on September 11, 2001, and it was weird, you know, no one really knew. Should we be having class? What's going on? I was in a class, a fingerstyle class. And then I had been to the second half before. And so class ended, and I was like, I think I'm just going to go into second half. And that is where this guy who I now know, one of my closest friends, Mark Dvorak, where I had seen him around, but I had never really seen him do his thing. And he sang down by the Riverside. And it was just like this cathartic moment for, like, second half was just packed because people were, like, just looking to make music. And so not only was that so important for me on that day, but I was also like, that is the guy that I want to be with. I want to know him.

[04:29] MEREVA LINDO: You, like, recognized him as a torch bearer right away.

[04:33] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, right away. Yeah. I was like, that. What is that? That is what I'm going to do. And that's an interesting thing because as I've been thinking about my time at the old town school, inadvertently, without really much of a plan, I think, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Not internship. Like, when you go and you study with an apprenticeship. Apprenticeship. That's the word. Like, I had an apprenticeship with Mark Dvorak. I didn't really take classes with him. He didn't really sit down. We never had a lesson. But I literally sat at that guy's feet for, you know, I mean, especially, like, the first. You know, from 2001 until. I mean, still, like, I still, like, if I'm in the room with that guy, I'm there to support his thing. And, you know, he knows me as somebody that's gonna be there to support, like, the community. That. That is a very, you know, different kind of education than I would have gotten if I were, like, showed up and I was like, okay, teach me how to do that base run, like, or whatever. Or, like, how do you. I just sat there, and eventually, you know, I would be the only one left at the bar, and he would be too. And he'd be like. Like, I'd be, like, picking around and he'd go like, hey, where'd you learn that? And I was like, oh, I don't know. I know this. He's like, oh, you know that? And he'd sit down next to me and. Yeah, we used to close the Grafton. Like, when I, you know, 10 years ago, it would just be me and Mark Dvorak at one in the morning in the back of the Grafton.

[06:29] MEREVA LINDO: Was that how, like, Tuesday nights got started there?

[06:32] JASON MCINNES: Well, Tuesday nights were already going. I got started because he does folk club twice a month and, you know.

[06:41] MEREVA LINDO: On Tuesdays.

[06:42] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, on Tuesday. And so that ended at 11, but I still wanted to play. And so right away I saw, like, okay, so Mark's gonna stop because he's. His job part is done. So he would move to the front of the bar and go have, like, social time with everybody. And I would be like, okay, I have songs. And so I would. I had a mental list of all the songs that I knew that everybody else knew that we hadn't already played that night. And so I would be like, oh, we didn't do Careless Love. So I was like, let's do Careless Love. And I picked up his mannerisms and I listened to the language that he used to make people feel comfortable. And, like, how does he lead a song? How does he get people to sing? How does he talk about the keys? So I. And, like, what jokes does he tell? I laugh all the time. I stole all his jokes. I did everything that Mark Dvorak did. And then that's how I learned to lead a jam was. Yeah, I didn't go to how to Lead a Jam class. I went. I just hung out and did everything Mark did later at the night. And then.

[07:56] MEREVA LINDO: I love that. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. He's like the quintessential song leader in the total Winstock, Pete Seeger, Frank Hamilton style of song. Leading and, like, you know, fostering inclusivity and fostering, like, that kind of environment where people want to step up, people want to join you. Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense. So he. I know he has a love of Winstock that comes from his. He knew Winstracky, who was one of the founders of the old Town School, of course. And he, like, had even maybe done interviews with him, I think. So he knew him until he passed, I think, at some point. In the 90s, right? Yeah.

[08:38] JASON MCINNES: Yeah.

[08:40] MEREVA LINDO: And he often talks about Wynn. So is that kind of how you became, like, aware of his story?

[08:46] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. So then it was. It was like, Mark was the first person to tell me about, like, mention the name Winstrackey. But then it was really Chris Walls when he invited me to get these kids together for, you know, to celebrate at the Wynn centennial, which is what would have been Winstack's 100th birthday. And I didn't really know much about Wynn.

[09:06] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[09:07] JASON MCINNES: But Chris knew that I worked with young people, and I was still at the beginning of that, too. Like, I was not. That was a long time ago. I was at the very beginning of my time.

[09:18] MEREVA LINDO: So you started, like, teaching after you, like, became sort of, you know, apprenticed by Mark?

[09:25] JASON MCINNES: Yeah.

[09:25] MEREVA LINDO: You started teaching, and you started teaching younger kids?

[09:29] JASON MCINNES: Well, no, it was interesting that I fir. My path is in 2001, I started as a student, and then I started working in the store, and then I was teaching. No one wanted to teach the adult class on Sunday. And so Jimmy T. Said to me, hey, do you want to teach class on Sunday? And I had never taught anybody, put.

[09:51] MEREVA LINDO: That the way there's an opening to be filled.

[09:54] JASON MCINNES: And so then I started teaching on Sunday. And then the person that was teaching, so that was at, like, noon or whatever, and then they needed somebody to teach some kids classes earlier in the morning.

[10:07] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[10:08] JASON MCINNES: And I had never done it, but I was like. Someone was like, well, you're there. Do you want to do it? I guess, you know, and then, like, right away, I was like, oh, I think I like this more than I like working with the adults. And so then, yeah, I, like, made a few more classes, and then I started teaching at the. I was a counselor at the summer camp in 2005 and then taught at the summer camp in 2006. And then that is when I was able to kind of shift, like, 100% of my income. And everything was coming from teaching kids how to play music.

[10:56] MEREVA LINDO: Cool. Okay. So, like, that's how Chris Walls, who. Teaching there a long time, you know, helping to organize the wind centennial at this, like, school 50th anniversary year also. Right. It was part of the school 50th anniversary year celebration.

[11:10] JASON MCINNES: Was it 2008?

[11:12] MEREVA LINDO: I think it was, because he was born in, like, 1908.

[11:15] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[11:17] MEREVA LINDO: So it's one year off, so.

[11:19] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah. Right.

[11:20] MEREVA LINDO: So anyway, around that time, he reaches out to you because you're, like, total kids, like, program guy at that point.

[11:28] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, right. Okay.

[11:31] MEREVA LINDO: So he reached out to you, and that was part of your impetus to set up this ensemble, which you called.

[11:38] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. So that became the Young Strachey all stars. And that was just a bunch of kids that I had had in class that seemed particularly interested. And, yeah, it was just gonna be. We needed to learn two Songs for this one show. And so we had practice, I think it was on Sunday, and we had practice, and. Yeah, it was just gonna be one.

[12:09] MEREVA LINDO: It's like you put together an ensemble for this small but exciting gig, and that was the plan.

[12:15] JASON MCINNES: And that was. Yeah, that was. And then what happened? Yeah, well, then. Then we got booked, like, for a second, like, everybody really liked it. That was. That was a thing that was so surprising. Like, everybody was into having the. The audience was into having the kids there. There's funny stories about how everybody else felt. Like there was. It was strange, looking back now, how nervous everybody was about having kids in the green room. And, like, myself included, I was like, oh, my gosh, I want these kids to be treated like the artists that they are, not secondary people or something. So I was like. So I had to navigate some interpersonal stuff right away. Which it continued through the. Anyway, Right.

[13:06] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[13:06] JASON MCINNES: Then we got booked for Peggy Lipschitz's 90th birthday.

[13:12] MEREVA LINDO: Peggy Lipschutz, the radical artist who was part of people's songs and had been part of the old town school community.

[13:20] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, she used to perform with Wynn.

[13:22] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah, Chalk talks.

[13:23] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, chalk talks, that's right. So that was. So we had done this one gig, and then there was a bunch of time off, and then someone asked me to do the Peggy. So I was like, oh, I guess we'll get. I'll just ask those same 10 kids. But by this time, Maria McCullough, who was my colleague and my best friend and somebody that I worked so much with, she had fiddle students.

[13:51] MEREVA LINDO: Did she ever.

[13:52] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, right. But this was even at the beginning, like, there was no fiddle program yet.

[13:57] MEREVA LINDO: Right.

[13:57] JASON MCINNES: She was teaching fiddle technique, or whatever you want to call that, stylings to youth musicians, where there really wasn't. That. That was not happening at the school. So that's when I was like. Or I can't remember how it happened. But anyway, we ended up with two fiddlers in the Young Strachey All Stars. And that totally changed everything.

[14:25] MEREVA LINDO: Totally.

[14:25] JASON MCINNES: And then we. Because now we had more interesting arrangements, Multiple instruments.

[14:33] MEREVA LINDO: Like, more of, like, melody instruments, chordal instruments, and singing.

[14:37] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah. And then that was the one where the audience really, like, really responded a lot. Like. Yeah. I just remember just being like, wow, this is. Here we go. Okay. Wow. But then I still didn't think anything of it, really. Yeah. We did two songs again, but then it was really. I guess it was in the summer of 2009. We got booked. Colleen Miller asked us to play the main stage at the Chicago Folk And Roots Festival, like, was this huge stage in Wells Park. This was only our third gig.

[15:19] MEREVA LINDO: Wow.

[15:21] JASON MCINNES: And like I say it wasn't like a. It was not an established thing yet. And so it was again, like, oh, I guess I'll just ask those same 10 kids. But then a couple kids couldn't do it. And I. In the, you know, the year that had passed, I had met a couple other kids and they were into it, and it was like, oh, now one of the kids had moved to playing the banjo and we had a. I brought in a cello player there. Alison Chesley had a cello student who was really into folk music. And she's like, Jason I have this cello can. What should we do? I was like, oh, get her in the band.

[15:57] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[15:58] JASON MCINNES: So, okay, now we have fiddles, banjo, cello and guitar on the main. Like, on this huge stage.

[16:07] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[16:07] JASON MCINNES: Doing four songs instead of two. And then we made our own T shirts. And that was like. Those T shirts were like, oh, this is real now. This is. This is something.

[16:24] MEREVA LINDO: We have T shirts. Yeah, this is a thing.

[16:26] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, we have T shirts. We have a huge gig.

[16:29] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[16:31] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. And let's kind of keep doing this, I guess.

[16:36] MEREVA LINDO: So it sort of like naturally evolved to a point where you were like, oh, this is. This is something. And I want to keep doing this. And we want to keep doing this because the kids were into it. So just to be clear, it's like the age range of the kids is around what? Or is there like, limits that you set?

[16:52] JASON MCINNES: No, it's not limits at all. Because it just kind of got pulled together so randomly. I would just be like, hey, you seem into this. And it didn't matter if they were 8 or if they were 12 or. It's like, if I got this thing, you want to come hang out with us on Sunday? And then. But what did start happening is that kids were growing out of it. And I could see that they were growing out of it kind of before they could. And for the first couple years, like, it was not a class. It was like this really nebulous thing.

[17:37] MEREVA LINDO: And it was unofficial.

[17:38] JASON MCINNES: Right.

[17:39] MEREVA LINDO: You were doing this separate from your old town school work, just to be classified.

[17:43] JASON MCINNES: Yes. Right. Yeah, right. It was not a class.

[17:46] MEREVA LINDO: You were doing class.

[17:46] JASON MCINNES: No one paid. No one paid. And through the whole length of the band, 11 years, no one paid to be in the band. And I didn't get paid to lead the band on a day to day basis. If we. Some of the gigs paid, you know, 50 bucks here, 50 bucks there, but.

[18:03] MEREVA LINDO: You, like, put that. Towards something that you were doing.

[18:06] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah. And. But you would just be like, we'd just show up to band practice, and it'd be like, where's so and so? And I'd be like, oh, I don't know. And, like, people would just. They just stopped coming. And then I'd get a note from their parents three weeks later, that was like, hey, that person doesn't want to be in the band anymore.

[18:27] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. Which would be just like, yeah, in and out, aging in, aging out.

[18:32] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Which was. But that. That leaving was really hard on everybody, including myself, because it felt unstable.

[18:40] MEREVA LINDO: I hear that. Yeah.

[18:41] JASON MCINNES: And it was like, well, who's gonna be like. I started, like, not knowing who was.

[18:46] MEREVA LINDO: Gonna be at these gigs because it was less structured. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[18:51] JASON MCINNES: So that's when I started a mentor of mine, Carlos Rodriguez, his son was in the band, and he helped me develop. When his son was leaving, he helped me develop a better plan for kids to leave where kind of. I brought it up before the kids did that. I could say, hey, so and so, you know, I know you're, like, 14 right now. I bet, you know, you're probably. You're going to high school or, you know, and you got this other band.

[19:25] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[19:25] JASON MCINNES: I bet you're feeling like it's time to move on.

[19:28] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[19:29] JASON MCINNES: Let's. Let's have a process. You let me know when you want to stop. You know, do you want it. Do you be next week, or do you want to. You know, we got a gig in a month. Do you want to go through that? And then after that, then we'll have a party for you and. And all this stuff. So they. The members were very much empowered to decide when they were gonna stop.

[19:50] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[19:50] JASON MCINNES: And it was me. So we had. You know, I had. You know, we had one member that went until he was 16.

[19:58] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[19:58] JASON MCINNES: You know, and would have kept going if I hadn't been.

[20:01] MEREVA LINDO: I think I know who you're talking.

[20:02] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, we got. You know, you have other stuff to do. You gotta go. I'm trying to bring in other people. Let's make a new role for you. And he ended up being, like, administrative assistant for a while, and now, you know, is, like, going to college for music and.

[20:18] MEREVA LINDO: Right.

[20:18] JASON MCINNES: And. Yeah.

[20:20] MEREVA LINDO: Doing his thing.

[20:20] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, yeah.

[20:22] MEREVA LINDO: So you also built a relationship with Ella Jenkins kind of through this group. Right. Can you talk a little bit about how you got to know her? Ella Jenkins, who is like, basically the godmother of children's music.

[20:35] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Well, that was just One where you kind of, like, through this whole thing, I'm elbowing my way in.

[20:41] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[20:42] JASON MCINNES: You know, I will say I ruffled a lot of feathers and, you know, had those elbows. A lot of, you know. You know that thing of, like, ask for forgiveness, not permission thing, like, yes, I do.

[21:00] MEREVA LINDO: I do know that with this band.

[21:03] JASON MCINNES: So, you know, I guess I just wrote to Ella, or, like, maybe she would be at the school, and I would make sure to bump into her and maybe have a picture or something. And then, like, one show she was doing at the school, the school asked the band to play a couple songs before her.

[21:31] MEREVA LINDO: Cool.

[21:32] JASON MCINNES: Then that's when we kind of actually got to start to know each other. And then it was when we put out that album, like, so this was gonna. This would be, like, in 2013, when I was working the band. The album came out in 2014. But I was putting the liner notes together, and I wanted her to be part of it. So we didn't know each other so well, but I asked her to write something about Win for the album liner notes.

[22:08] MEREVA LINDO: Can I read that?

[22:09] JASON MCINNES: Oh, sure.

[22:10] MEREVA LINDO: So it's called A Remembrance of Winstrackey by Ella Jenkins. Or you can read it if you like.

[22:16] JASON MCINNES: No. Please, no.

[22:16] MEREVA LINDO: Okay. Winstrackey was a big man with a beautiful, booming voice. Audiences love to sing with him. He was a multitalented performer and knew the history of his music. His children's TV show was a delight. We were all inspired by him. He was a good friend, and I miss that booming voice. I'm so glad that the young Strachey All Stars are learning about him and using their voices to pass along his spirit.

[22:41] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Yeah. So that was. That was really neat to get her to do that, to write that for us.

[22:49] MEREVA LINDO: Totally.

[22:49] JASON MCINNES: And then she came out to our album release show at the Donk House, which was really. That was like, there's all these steps of the band. That was a huge deal.

[23:03] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. She's a Grammy award winner for lifetime achievement.

[23:06] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, well. And then, like, yeah, so she's there, but Also, we got 500 people at the Donk House.

[23:13] MEREVA LINDO: Wow.

[23:14] JASON MCINNES: I mean, it was packed. I just had no idea. I had no idea that we were onto what we ended up being to.

[23:27] MEREVA LINDO: In 2015.

[23:28] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, in 2014.

[23:30] MEREVA LINDO: 2014.

[23:30] JASON MCINNES: Yeah.

[23:31] MEREVA LINDO: Got it.

[23:31] JASON MCINNES: And, like, well, like, I didn't know Ella didn't know. The old town school didn't know. Like, there was just. Like, there was just so many people there. I was like, maybe 200 people. Maybe, like, oh, my gosh.

[23:51] MEREVA LINDO: And this is so interesting to me, because we're here and we're talking about your Old Town School experience as you, by the way, prepared to leave the Old Town School. So that's very special. But it's like young Strachey was parallel to that, too. These were all kids that went to the Old Town School, but it's all sort of happening almost like parallel. Right, because you're teaching at the school still through all this time.

[24:17] JASON MCINNES: Yes.

[24:17] MEREVA LINDO: But it's like this interesting thing that I think is very much a part of the Old Town School in terms of its community role that it plays. And in that spirit, it's something that is done for the pleasure of making music together and for fostering a certain kind of community. So it was super in the spirit, but happening on its own sort of track.

[24:40] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, well, yeah, we could never figure out a way for it to be an official part of the school, which was complicated for a bunch of reasons, for sure. But it was that thing of, like, since it wasn't part of the school and since there was no money being exchanged, there was no expectation on anybody's part for what should be happening. And it's that thing of, like, sometimes when there's no money, nothing happens. Sometimes when there's no money, all this stuff happens because no one. Everyone's like, oh, that seems like a good idea.

[25:20] MEREVA LINDO: It's kind of like that thing of, oh, I'm not being graded on this anymore.

[25:23] JASON MCINNES: Right.

[25:23] MEREVA LINDO: It's like, very free.

[25:24] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, it's very free. And what I started figuring out and one of the reasons why I think that show was so big and a bunch of other stuff that happened after, through a bunch of ways, we started being able to play a set. Like, the kids could play an hour without me playing with them. So we could book gigs. Like, we could play at the Bead Kitchen and we could play at the Old Lincoln Restaurant. And we could play Just be ready. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it was like we were ready to go. And then what that. What I started seeing, though, was that I was a constant struggle with the band was that really I wanted everybody to be in the band, but if everybody was in the band, we couldn't have the band because it would be unmanageable. So that's like the Gather all was like, for everybody to be in the band.

[26:23] MEREVA LINDO: Explain the Gather all just a little bit.

[26:25] JASON MCINNES: So, yeah, the Gather all that comes from Winstrackey when he was at the school. It was, you know, it's an open jam style. Sing along. It's very old Town School centric. That does not happen all over the country where you can have sing alongs or you can have old time jams or iris jam or a blues jam.

[26:47] MEREVA LINDO: They're usually like style specific. Yeah.

[26:50] JASON MCINNES: Or you know, like. Yeah, you can have a sing along, but there might only be one or two people that actually play the guitar. You know, at the old Town School, everybody does everything. You bring your guitar. Everybody brings their guitar, their banjos, there's piano, there's shakers, there's like all this stuff. And then you all sing and play at the same time. Yeah, like 30 people. Not four, right? Not four. And everybody else is kind of like.

[27:25] MEREVA LINDO: It's like an intimate small group of people having an experience and other people kind of watching or doing their own thing on the edges. It's like everyone is in a big circle participating.

[27:36] JASON MCINNES: Right, right. Yeah. Which is real different than when you think about Rambling Jack and Woody in New York. That was a very different dynamic. Yeah, right. That was a smaller group of people.

[27:51] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. So you have the gather for that sort of.

[27:55] JASON MCINNES: That experience, Right, Exactly.

[27:57] MEREVA LINDO: Where everyone is included.

[27:58] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, everybody gets. And everybody's on the same level.

[28:01] MEREVA LINDO: So you started that at Armitage on Saturdays?

[28:04] JASON MCINNES: No. So the gather all was part of First Friday.

[28:07] MEREVA LINDO: Got it. Oh, wow.

[28:09] JASON MCINNES: Gather all came before the Saturday jam.

[28:11] MEREVA LINDO: First Friday, which used to happen for many, many years. I don't even know how many years, like. Yeah, up until only a few years ago.

[28:18] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[28:19] MEREVA LINDO: First Friday.

[28:20] JASON MCINNES: It's so crazy, the amount of stuff because. Yeah, basically I was just like. I saw these kids. I had all these kids in my classes then they could play and there wasn't much for them to do outside of class. And I used to go to First Friday and there'd be all these kids hanging out in the lobby waiting for their parents to be done because their parents were in Beatles ensemble or whatever and.

[28:49] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[28:50] JASON MCINNES: Performing Girls. Yeah. Like doing their thing. And I was like, well, you can play like, where?

[28:56] MEREVA LINDO: What are we doing here?

[28:57] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, let's go. And so that's when I started the Gatherall, which came from the name, like I had originally called it the Family Jam, but that was. Oh my gosh, the Gatheraw. The idea for the Gatheraw comes from my experience at folk club at the Grafton. I wanted a folk club, but for families, for kids. Like, mostly it was. Mostly I wanted to empower the kids, but I wanted it to be like all ages. Everybody can come in. Right, all ages. You've been playing for 20 years, you've never touched a guitar. Let's do something.

[29:38] MEREVA LINDO: Totally. Yes.

[29:40] JASON MCINNES: So I started, but I called it the Family Jam. And it was strange because not many people showed up. And then the ones that did it was more like Wiggle Worm's age. And the parents didn't play, and the first couple were this really strange. It didn't really work.

[30:00] MEREVA LINDO: Figuring it out was sort of awkward.

[30:03] JASON MCINNES: Yeah. There wasn't a community yet.

[30:06] MEREVA LINDO: Right.

[30:08] JASON MCINNES: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Then the Gather All. Then the. So then I was reading one of Pete's books, and he mentioned Winstrackey and this thing called the Gatherall. And I looked at it. I was like, that description that he wrote was exactly what I was trying to do, that I thought I was inventing, but it was a thing that had happened four years earlier but had gotten lost. And I was like, oh, okay, let's do that. And then I switched it to the Gather all, which just changed the name, changed the focus a little bit. And then some kids started showing up. And then this one fiddler played this song called Boil Them Cabbage down, which I didn't really know, but I was like, oh, that's the song. And then we all learned Boiling Cabbage Down. And now here we are, like, all these years later.

[31:05] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah, Gather all is still happening.

[31:07] JASON MCINNES: No, the Galarol doesn't happen anymore.

[31:09] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah, but it happened, right?

[31:10] JASON MCINNES: The demise of First Friday. Yeah. It just didn't make sense anymore.

[31:14] MEREVA LINDO: That's right. And then. So you, like, in that spirit, was that about, like, how the open jam at Armitage came about, too?

[31:21] JASON MCINNES: Okay, yeah. And then to get back to my original point about the Gather aisle was that this young Strachey's were able to get a gig. So say we got a gig at the Beet Kitchen. We had an hour. Then I started seeing. Well, what I can do is we'll have. We have an hour of space, but we'll. We'll play for some time at the beginning. And then I was like, well, these other kids, they can play one or two songs they can't play for an hour, but let's put them in the middle. They can do their own one or two songs and then come up with us at the end and maybe play Boiling Cabbage or you are my Sunshine or something. And so I started being able to get other kids involved. Even the young Stracheys could get the gig. And then we could get as many people involved as possible on that thing to start to really grow the community.

[32:19] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah, totally.

[32:21] JASON MCINNES: And that was like. That was with the. To go back to that CD release party that was, you know, I had like, a bunch of young violin players from Wilmette. One of the girls that was in the band, you know, she was in an orchestra. And so they came and played at that. And then also I had the Chicago Children's Choir, the Albany park group, like, came and sang and that was revelatory. Like, oh, my gosh, look at all these people here.

[32:54] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. So you were able to like, just bring people in both as collaborators and as like, possible new Strat.

[33:00] JASON MCINNES: Right, right.

[33:01] MEREVA LINDO: Continued just like evolving as it always had.

[33:04] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, the band. The band was never. Yeah, the band was never about the band. The band was always a tool to get as many people involved as possible.

[33:13] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah.

[33:14] JASON MCINNES: To the extent that the. There's. When the band retired in 2019, here, a bunch of the kids that were in the band in 2019 started 10 years ago as fans of the band.

[33:32] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah, right.

[33:33] JASON MCINNES: And they were able to keep coming to gigs. And then they started coming to gigs and then I'd be like, hey, you've been here for a few times. Why don't you come and play with us this time? You know, and that got to that point. Right, right. And then you, like, end up being in the band and hopefully that's going to keep going. That a bunch of the kids are now in college and, you know, they're going to. But eventually they're going to circle back around. That's why we need as strong a school as possible, because in 20 years, those kids need to be able to come back to the old town school and be the new teachers and be like, hey, when I was here, like, you play this song. Yeah.

[34:13] MEREVA LINDO: Like you used to be a student. So we've talked a lot about the Stracheys and maybe this question will be a little bit about the Stracheys too. But what's one of your fondest memories at the old town school?

[34:31] JASON MCINNES: The memory that I think about all the time with this trackees is we were at the Peggy Lipschutz's 90th birthday and there was a kid named Henry that was in the band. And yeah, like I say, we got this big ovation and we were in the green room later and he said to me, he's like, hey, Jason you know, did they clap so loud just because we were kids? And I said, well, I think at the beginning, you know, they did clap a lot when we walked out, but then they found out that we could actually play. And that was why we got such a loud clapping at the end, because it Was like, oh, they thought it was going to be kind of this cute kind of thing. And then it was like, well, that was really good. And then, you know, that's just cool. That's what I want to have happen, like, for the kids to be equals, you know? Yes, they're young, but it's not cute that they have a small guitar. It's the guitar that fits them. They can play it, and they have their own artistry, and they can be up here on the stage just like everybody else.

[35:48] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. And like, what a good question.

[35:49] JASON MCINNES: Yeah.

[35:50] MEREVA LINDO: To be, like, recognizing the kids know that people clap sometimes just because they're kids, you know, they get to recognize that. Totally. So kind of also on the reflective side, I think I know the answer to what are you most proud of as a teacher? And I would guess that it's probably the youngstrakis. But if you have another answer.

[36:13] JASON MCINNES: Well, no, I mean, it's the youngstrakis. But like, I say, like, I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I just hope that there's going to be a thousand kids out in the world that are going to be like, you know, I went to a place where I was valued as me, that I. Jason know that I listen to all kinds of music. Some of my very favorite performers are people that can barely play the guitar, but they bring what, you know, some kind of spirit or their songs or something. You know, it's not about being a good guitar player. It's like, what. What are you. What are you offering in terms of your spirit or something? And that's what I hope to. That was different than my learning to play music experience. Mine was like, are you first chair or not? If you're not first chair, it means you're not very good, and maybe you should stop. And that was like, looking back, I was like, oh, my God.

[37:30] MEREVA LINDO: It's the opposite.

[37:32] JASON MCINNES: That is crazy. Like, we put so much pressure on. I was so. I had so much pressure at such a young age to keep up, and now I'm like, oh, I don't know. Show up. Yeah. Like, practice, like, if you want to get better practice. If you're happy with it sounding like that, that's fine. That is good, too. There's no be. Do more of that. Whatever. Whatever you love, whatever the thing is that is attracting you to this music, do more of that. And then if you can. You know, I think even the kids, they know where they have holes in their own artistry. You know, they can play by ear, but can't read. They can only read and can't play by ear. They get it. And so I'm there to help them be like, that's not. You're not limited because you can do one or the other. It's like you tend to this side, you tend to that side, you tend to.

[38:34] MEREVA LINDO: You have a strength here.

[38:35] JASON MCINNES: Right? Yeah. And I'm here as your coach to help you strengthen your whole thing. But whether you get stronger in that or not, doesn't your self worth in terms of this musical experience is not contingent on you being able to do that?

[38:54] MEREVA LINDO: Right.

[38:55] JASON MCINNES: You know that. Yeah.

[38:59] MEREVA LINDO: Yeah. So you talk. You talked a little bit about this, I think, just now. But what do you hope your legacy will be as you leave the school?

[39:09] JASON MCINNES: Yeah, I hope that that's it. I hope that. That there's just going to be all these people that go, oh, they're going to go off into college and it's already happening. You know, they're kind of being like, hey, somebody told me I'm not so good at this. And it's like, that's okay. Take what you can from that person and you know, but be strong in yourself. Take what you can. And we're just going to keep getting better. But always know that there's this place called the Old Town School where you can come in and you can always come to the jam and you can always play music and we're always going to be here. Yeah.

[39:49] MEREVA LINDO: Is there anything else you want to share?

[39:51] JASON MCINNES: No, I think that that's it. Okay, thank you.

[39:55] MEREVA LINDO: Cheers.