Clint Anderson and Sarah Anderson

[00:01] CLINT ANDERSON: Hi. My name is Clint Anderson. I'm 42 years old. Today's date is Wednesday, September 21, 2022. The location is Salt Lake City, Utah. And my interview partner is Sarah, and my relationship to her is my sister.

[00:22] SARAH ANDERSON: Hi, I'm Sarah Anderson. I'm 45 years old. Today is Wednesday, September 21, 2022. We are in Salt Lake City, Utah. The name of my interview partner is Clint, and my relationship to him is. He is my brother. So, Clint, I wanted to talk to you today and interview you because it is based on mental health and you have schizoaffective disorder. You told me that you experienced that when you were 14 years old, and that's correct, right?

[01:03] CLINT ANDERSON: Correct.

[01:04] SARAH ANDERSON: And so I wanted to ask you, I wanted to talk about that, about mental health and with your and my relationship with you as a sister and me as a therapist now and having experienced my own issues with mental health. So I think my first question is, why did you say yes to wanting to have this interview with me?

[01:36] CLINT ANDERSON: A lot of what? Because it's something I've never experienced before. But also, I remember you mentioning that part of it was this discussion was going to be about mental health or mental illness and how it affects people, particularly me. And I think it's something that we've kind of shared with each other for quite some time.

[02:00] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. Why do you feel comfortable talking to me about it? Because I know you've, I felt mainly.

[02:04] CLINT ANDERSON: Because you, it's been, we remember we discussed it when we were living in Russia, and you were the first person, I don't know why it ever came out initially. That was back in 1996, and I don't really know why I shared that. But now the reason why I do is because I'm aware of your situation as someone with mental health issues, as well as you as a therapist or a social worker. And then it something that you understand as not only as in a, you know, book smart, but also through experience.

[02:46] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but one thing I haven't that I don't understand about you personally, Clint, is that you don't share a lot about your experience. Like you say, things are not good today. I can't be around people, but you don't say exactly what's going on in your head. And I wonder why you don't do that. And if you're willing to share what really goes on, because I know you hear voices, and I don't know if you're willing to share exactly what they say, because that's what the disorder is.

[03:21] CLINT ANDERSON: I think part of it is because it's difficult to talk about it, and I don't want people to worry about me in a sense, even though. Which is strange, because I know that you would understand.

[03:36] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but we're having an interview. Like, we're doing an interview, and I feel like, for people to understand mental illness that they may understand, because I know you don't like it to be misrepresented in social media and in television. So I'm wondering, could you maybe share a little bit more so that people can understand what really it is about and what the experience is about?

[04:11] CLINT ANDERSON: Okay. It's interesting because it has both the delusion aspect as far as my thoughts and so forth, but it also. What sometimes affects the delusions are the voices as well.

[04:32] SARAH ANDERSON: So explain what delusions are.

[04:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Delusions are basically abnormal thoughts that have no real justice.

[04:42] SARAH ANDERSON: Okay, so tell me, can you share, like, what those thoughts are personally, your personal thoughts, those delusional thoughts?

[04:48] CLINT ANDERSON: I've had experiences where I remember a few years back, there was a time when I thought I had to move to Florida because there was. I was supposed to be part of the space program, and I was supposed to meet somebody there to gather more information. There's been other times where I was supposed to meet up with somebody because they were supposed to give me some documents that were classified that I was supposed to keep until a particular time. There's been other times where, you know, I thought that our parents were lizards from outer space and that they were trying to control me in my mind. And so what's interesting is some of those experiences are exacerbated by the voices. Okay, so then sometimes they aren't.

[05:41] SARAH ANDERSON: So what are the voices saying to you? So those are the delusions. And then what are the voices?

[05:46] CLINT ANDERSON: Well, the voices, I. You know, it's. It's interesting because how would you explain.

[05:52] SARAH ANDERSON: Them to people that wouldn't understand?

[05:55] CLINT ANDERSON: It's not necessarily the voice in your head. Like, a lot of people have kind of the Jiminy cricket kind of thing, like a companion in your head. It's completely separate of that. There is a ringleader, but there's actually about. So it'd be him and then six other voices of varying genders. And they basically tell me things like, oh, you know, it must be true. Your parents are lizards. Because look at what they're doing and saying and that kind of thing. And sometimes, you know, it scares me because it's like, you know, you think you're. You know, if you can't trust your senses in a way, then what I'm hearing I. It must be true, because it's. It's something I hear outside of myself as opposed to, like I said before, an inner voice that a lot of people experience.

[06:55] SARAH ANDERSON: And so then what do you do when these things happen?

[07:00] CLINT ANDERSON: I either try to, you know, distract myself sometimes, whether it be with music or.

[07:10] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, I know you talk to mom and dad sometimes.

[07:12] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. And that sometimes helps, but not a lot of the time because they really don't understand.

[07:17] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[07:18] CLINT ANDERSON: And that's what's really hard. You know, like, I, like we've talked about before, you know, I've gone to therapy.

[07:24] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[07:25] CLINT ANDERSON: And that's helped because I've been going to therapy probably since.

[07:29] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, I know you've taken. You've taken medication and you've taken medication since you had your psychological break, and you've always taken medication for the most part.

[07:44] CLINT ANDERSON: There have been times where I.

[07:46] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, but you were willing to take it, and that's something that I know from being in the mental health field that a lot don't, because of side effects.

[08:03] CLINT ANDERSON: And fogginess is quite common for a lot of people.

[08:06] SARAH ANDERSON: So why do you choose to. Because you still hear voices. So do they.

[08:13] CLINT ANDERSON: It takes an edge off.

[08:15] SARAH ANDERSON: Okay, so what, it kind of softens a little bit since there's so many people that do. Why that do go off of it because of those terrible side effects. Why do you still.

[08:27] CLINT ANDERSON: I'd rather deal with the side effects than the reality of completely losing my mind and disconnect from reality.

[08:33] SARAH ANDERSON: So you.

[08:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Because I have experienced that where I didn't take my medications for, I think the longest time was about two weeks.

[08:41] SARAH ANDERSON: Why didn't you?

[08:42] CLINT ANDERSON: Because they were telling me that it was the doctor that's trying to control your mind. These are just really placebos. They're not doing anything. So it's the voices, you know?

[08:55] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[08:57] CLINT ANDERSON: So that's, you know, but then I've looked back and honestly. And it's helped going to a therapist and having a psychiatrist, so. To listen. Cause they're like, you know, it's. In hindsight, I've realized that it's better to take the meds than to be off them. As far in relationship to delusions and depression and. As well as the voices.

[09:18] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. What do you think the hardest thing is about having sex? Affective disorder.

[09:26] CLINT ANDERSON: Voices disconnecting from people in general that I care about, sometimes even disconnecting from myself, losing my own sense of being, in a way.

[09:39] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[09:40] CLINT ANDERSON: And that's been really hard. Another part is just, you know, people don't understand. So when I try to allow people into my world, so to speak. They just, you know, they don't understand. That's kind of why it's hard sometimes to say that, you know, well, why don't you just share? And it's. It's like, well, they won't understand. But today's a good. Today to talk about it is. Is healthy. It helps because it brings me more into reality and allows me to say, you know, I experience them, but that's not necessarily who I am as a person, even though it does affect me.

[10:21] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, because you have said that.

[10:23] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[10:24] SARAH ANDERSON: Especially with religion.

[10:26] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[10:26] SARAH ANDERSON: You're not religious anymore because of the. It's hard to differentiate. Is that what you said?

[10:31] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah.

[10:33] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, what's hard to differentiate? Well, the Holy Spirit and.

[10:38] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Trying to define, you know, because I remember even, you know, when I was back a teenager, I was having problems with deciphering between whether or was I possessed by the devil. You know, I'm hearing evil voices and telling me to do terrible things, and, you know, I put a gun beneath my chin because they were telling me, you know, you know what? No one likes you. No one gives a shit, you know, and you're better off dead. And then it's me being bombarded by the voices. And it was. And this is before medication or even therapy. And it was like, you know, maybe they're right. Maybe I don't deserve to live. And that's where, like, you know, depression is one thing, but it's also.

[11:23] SARAH ANDERSON: But you thought those were evil voices.

[11:25] CLINT ANDERSON: Mm hmm. I thought it was. For a while there, I'm like, you know, in relationship to religion and my perspective at the time, it was like, well, it's negative, it's evil. Must be the devil influencing me.

[11:37] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. But you continue to stay active.

[11:41] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[11:42] SARAH ANDERSON: And so what. At what point did you decide, yeah, this is not. I can't believe in goddess.

[11:52] CLINT ANDERSON: Wow. Well, I guess the short version of that is basically, I didn't see any other way to deal with it if it was, you know, it's not. Maybe it's not necessarily the devil anymore, but how do I know? How do I decipher between the good coming from either Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God or whatever, because it's.

[12:19] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, do you think that's helped with your conflict?

[12:24] CLINT ANDERSON: It has, yes. Because I don't think as whether it's even spirituality or even religion. It's not realistic. It's a belief. And so for me to say, well, I experienced the voices and the circumstances that they put me under. But if I say it's not from God, it's not from Satan. So they're just voices. It's. I try to look at it more as a medical terminology as opposed to confusing it between God and Satan or whatever. What have you.

[13:01] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. So you no longer have to do that.

[13:03] CLINT ANDERSON: Make that choice as much. Yeah.

[13:05] SARAH ANDERSON: Because, you know, it's coming from a mental. Exact issue.

[13:11] CLINT ANDERSON: Exactly.

[13:12] SARAH ANDERSON: Chemicals.

[13:14] CLINT ANDERSON: And what's crazy is even psychiatrist doesn't. They can point to on a map of the brain. It comes from here and affects this. But they're kind of guessing, even with medication. And that's kind of the hard part, too. Cause it's like, you know.

[13:30] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. They're guessing.

[13:31] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[13:32] SARAH ANDERSON: And new medication comes out all the time.

[13:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Exactly.

[13:35] SARAH ANDERSON: Have you noticed being on medications for 20. How many years?

[13:41] CLINT ANDERSON: Since I was 17.

[13:43] SARAH ANDERSON: Okay. And now you're 42. Let's do the math.

[13:48] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't.

[13:49] SARAH ANDERSON: Wait. 20 something. 20 something years. Anywho, so have you noticed because you have taken new medicine now? Have you noticed the difference between the medicines you were on 20 plus years ago, the side effects? Like, have side effects changed? Have they improved with. Does that make sense? Have they improved with less side effects?

[14:21] CLINT ANDERSON: Yes, some of them better.

[14:23] SARAH ANDERSON: You can't hear less noise in the head.

[14:27] CLINT ANDERSON: It's. Yeah. Sorry.

[14:30] SARAH ANDERSON: Or because you were taking. I mean, you had to stop taking lithium because it was damaging the body, particularly my kidneys.

[14:40] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Yes, but what I didn't also.

[14:43] SARAH ANDERSON: But it was helpful.

[14:44] CLINT ANDERSON: It was. But that's more of a mood stabilizer. Yes, but the thing was, what I also found out was that I remember with another medication, it was an antipsychotic. I don't remember the name, but if you remember Ed Red, the family friend was able, because he has. He's a internist doctor, but he's also studied psychiatry and he was a. And when I was having Oculo gyro crisis, what was interesting about that is I found out that lithium, after a long time, begins to do that as well.

[15:23] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[15:24] CLINT ANDERSON: And then in relationship, and it got worse with that other antipsychotic.

[15:29] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, how do you feel about that? Because of the medication that do help. It does damage the body, breaks it down like you have.

[15:38] CLINT ANDERSON: I have kidney problems.

[15:39] SARAH ANDERSON: You have kidney problems. You have sarcoidosis. We don't know if it's related. But you're having falling spells.

[15:46] CLINT ANDERSON: Exactly.

[15:46] SARAH ANDERSON: You don't know if it's related. My belief.

[15:49] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, it probably is.

[15:52] SARAH ANDERSON: It's unhealthy years of medicine that they don't know what the damage it does or they do, but then you have to get off of it.

[16:01] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[16:02] SARAH ANDERSON: Do you think it was worth it?

[16:05] CLINT ANDERSON: Some days, yes, and some days no.

[16:07] SARAH ANDERSON: To take the medicine for the cause.

[16:10] CLINT ANDERSON: You know, honestly, I take antidepressants and anti anxiety, and I still have panic attacks and hard to get out of bed most of the time and that kind of stuff, so. But when I look back, hindsight, I think it's actually for my betterment.

[16:24] SARAH ANDERSON: Okay.

[16:25] CLINT ANDERSON: In general, at least.

[16:27] SARAH ANDERSON: So you don't feel like, you know.

[16:30] CLINT ANDERSON: If there was something that would take it away, I would do it. Yeah, but it's not there yet.

[16:37] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, I know you've attempted a few times.

[16:41] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing is, like.

[16:45] SARAH ANDERSON: And you think about it.

[16:46] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, I think about it a lot.

[16:48] SARAH ANDERSON: So would you try again if you.

[16:50] CLINT ANDERSON: I know a lot of people would be really disappointed, which I didn't find out until I had done it.

[16:59] SARAH ANDERSON: You know, people were disappointed, like, you.

[17:02] CLINT ANDERSON: Know, logically, you would figure people would miss you. But the thing is, is, you know, you put in play with the voices and how you feel, it's. You get. That's why you attempt suicide. It's because you don't. You don't realize those things.

[17:18] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but you did it twice.

[17:19] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[17:20] SARAH ANDERSON: So the first time you didn't realize that people were disappointed.

[17:26] CLINT ANDERSON: No, but I was convinced by voices and how I felt, that that's why. And that's why I still think about it, because it's essentially an escapist thing, you know?

[17:42] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, I remember what you said when I asked you why.

[17:44] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[17:45] SARAH ANDERSON: And what did you say?

[17:46] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't remember. Bring it back to me.

[17:49] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, it made me. It made me realize the torture that you go through. Oh, and you said you didn't want to be afraid anymore.

[17:57] CLINT ANDERSON: No, I don't.

[17:59] SARAH ANDERSON: And is that. Do you still feel. That's, like, one of the reason why you would end it, because you don't want to be afraid anymore or what would be other reasons?

[18:12] CLINT ANDERSON: Just dealing with depression, anxiety, and voices, you know, on a daily basis, it wears you down, you know? And that's the thing, is that, you know, you see on this is what makes me mad, kind of what you're talking about before, you know, and even on commercials with, or even social media, there's misunderstandings as well. But what's interesting is you watch commercials for anti. Antipsychotics or depression, whatever, and they make it look so simple, you know, take these pills and, you know, it's gonna.

[18:48] SARAH ANDERSON: Everything will be all right.

[18:49] CLINT ANDERSON: Exactly. It's not a fairy tale. It just doesn't work that way. And I think a lot of people nowadays, they're expecting that, and so they jump on, and then they're disappointed that it didn't come to what they thought it was gonna be. But I don't look at it that way anymore. I used to because it's. It's a lot of pain, people, you know, the whole, you know, you understand life is suffering, but you. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it, and that's the hard part. And you want it to go away, but you realize it's not going to.

[19:24] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. So what makes you not do it?

[19:31] CLINT ANDERSON: Um, taking care of mom in her situation, as far as her health concerns, because that's basically all I do now, for the most part, is caretaking for her.

[19:43] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[19:44] CLINT ANDERSON: Because we've talked about it, and I know how it makes her feel, you know, and then I know she appreciates my help, and that helps me because I know she's being sincere, and that means a lot, because once it gives you, you know, I told her, I was like, you know, what if I wasn't taking care of you or not gone, you know, having some kind of goal of getting out of bed, I probably wouldn't get out of the house. And I don't much anymore right now. I get out of bed, I just don't get out of the house. You know what I mean? Because it's like. I just. I don't know.

[20:21] SARAH ANDERSON: So you say you're depressed.

[20:23] CLINT ANDERSON: Yes, but I don't know. It's just something we deal with. Everyone deals with it in varying degrees, I think. Sadness or depression.

[20:34] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. Well, does it bother you, me being a therapist sometimes give you suggestions? It does bother you?

[20:45] CLINT ANDERSON: Oh, yeah.

[20:45] SARAH ANDERSON: Even when I'm, like, telling you that there's positives in going back to therapy and, you know, I know there is. Why does it bother you?

[20:56] CLINT ANDERSON: It's like the kids not wanting to eat their broccoli. They know it's good for them. But that's very simplistic. But it's like, you know, it's good for you, but you just don't want it. It just doesn't work.

[21:08] SARAH ANDERSON: I get it.

[21:08] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't know. And I understand what you're saying, you know, as far as needing to go to therapy. Yeah, I probably do.

[21:17] SARAH ANDERSON: But you don't do it because it's.

[21:20] CLINT ANDERSON: Like broccoli pretty much, or Brussels, but.

[21:25] SARAH ANDERSON: Then it's good for you and you get better because broccoli is, well, to vegans.

[21:31] CLINT ANDERSON: Is, you know, I've had therapy since 17.

[21:33] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. And it's like, but just like you're saying, everybody suffers, everybody needs therapy. And sometimes it's lifelong. Well, because you have a lifelong disease.

[21:45] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, but it's just because you're like, you know, I don't like rehashing things because a lot of it, you know, voices, it's continual.

[21:56] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but don't you need a consistent, like, reminder?

[21:59] CLINT ANDERSON: Um, probably, yeah.

[22:04] SARAH ANDERSON: No, you do not.

[22:06] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't get my flu shot, so it's like, you know, I get idea.

[22:10] SARAH ANDERSON: Nice try. Anyways.

[22:12] CLINT ANDERSON: Anyways, I don't know. I just don't, I don't know. There's no real reason. I honestly don't. Yeah, it's just, I just don't, I just don't want it. It's just, you know, I don't. But it depends because you don't, you don't go to therapy at all either.

[22:30] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but I'm in remission.

[22:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Oh, I guess that's probably true.

[22:39] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, I don't have, yeah, schizoaffective disorder. Wherever medicine doesn't work all the time.

[22:48] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, that's true. It is a little bit different.

[22:52] SARAH ANDERSON: It's very different.

[22:54] CLINT ANDERSON: But I don't know. I know the therapist that I've been seeing is probably one of the better ones, which is good, but I don't know. Sometimes I sit down and there's so much going on in my head, it's hard for me to express what is happening, to get it from my brain to my lips and then for him to discuss with me about it.

[23:24] SARAH ANDERSON: Do you think it would be good, though? Because, well, how would you, for people that do go through, have your disorder, have schizoaffective disorder, what would you say to them.

[23:41] CLINT ANDERSON: As far as what, if.

[23:42] SARAH ANDERSON: Anyone'S listening that has it, what would you tell them that's suffering like you, that can relate to you? I mean, I don't know. If you would say advice, what advice would you give to them? I guess.

[24:03] CLINT ANDERSON: Wow. It'll never go away, but it can get less. If going to therapy works for you, do it. Most likely medication will help. They're getting better medication. Even older antipsychotics work better than newer ones. And, you know, at least try and see what works best for you as an individual. Is it both medication and therapy? That's up to you. You know, at least try it and see what works best. I've also been blessed with the healthy family relationship, particularly parents and siblings and, you know, in general, and they kind of have an understanding of where I'm coming from. Some people don't have that. And if they don't find people.

[25:02] SARAH ANDERSON: How important has that been for you? How important is that, do you think?

[25:08] CLINT ANDERSON: Very important. One of the biggest helps that I've ever had.

[25:15] SARAH ANDERSON: Have you ever thought of where you'd be without.

[25:16] CLINT ANDERSON: Probably on the street, our parents. Probably on the street or not in a state hospital. Probably.

[25:29] SARAH ANDERSON: Why you say that? Because what? Because our parents. What have our parents done?

[25:34] CLINT ANDERSON: There have been times that when medication was 2000 a month upwards, sometimes there's no way I cuz, you know, because I was on mom and dad's insurance until I think it's 26 is when they drop you off. And after that I was having medications that were, you know, that were 2000, $3,000 a month. There's no way I could have afforded that. And I was working part time. Yeah, it's a lot of money and a lot of people don't have those kind of resources. And I know there's things now that are better from the government that help, but you really, once you try looking, there's a lot of people that are looking for that kind of help.

[26:18] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[26:19] CLINT ANDERSON: Even housing is a problem and it's. And sometimes it's not a perfect fit, you know, but having that support of a place I can live, monetary support, emotional support, you know, those kinds of things, you know, it's not everyone's blessed with that. And I feel myself very blessed in that aspect of life because honestly, you know, there's a lot of people that get kicked out. I know people who've had schizophrenia or other kinds of chronic mental illness and they've been kicked out of their houses.

[26:57] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[26:57] CLINT ANDERSON: Because the parents, either their biological parents or even step parents, didn't want to deal with them anymore.

[27:05] SARAH ANDERSON: Did you only know people with schizophrenia in the hospital?

[27:08] CLINT ANDERSON: No.

[27:09] SARAH ANDERSON: Do you know people that have it?

[27:10] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, there was a girl in our neighborhood that got kicked out of her parents house because her father got remarried after her mom died. Oh yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

[27:20] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

[27:22] CLINT ANDERSON: And, you know, we probably shouldn't say her name.

[27:24] SARAH ANDERSON: No, I wouldn't.

[27:25] CLINT ANDERSON: I wouldn't either. But it's just like, you know, honestly, she got kicked out because her stepmom didn't want her to be at the house anymore. And I've talked to her, I used to see her every so often and.

[27:39] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, she's doing well now.

[27:40] CLINT ANDERSON: She is doing a lot better now, but it was a long, hard road, I'll tell you.

[27:45] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[27:45] CLINT ANDERSON: Cause I've asked her about it. Cause I used to see her and. Cause I think, you know, I'd see her.

[27:52] SARAH ANDERSON: Does she know that she. Does she know that you have schizoaffective disorder?

[27:59] CLINT ANDERSON: From my understanding, yes.

[28:01] SARAH ANDERSON: But you never told her.

[28:03] CLINT ANDERSON: No, I did, because she was in a. In a ward. Right. Church. Yeah. Congregation. Yeah. And I knew her, and we talked about it. Hers was schizophrenia. Mine was schizoaffective, which is a little bit different. Affective is. The affective part is bipolar, so it was a little bit different. But, you know, auditory and visual hallucinations is both in both diagnoses. But we talked about it a bit, and it was really hard on her, too. And when she lost that support, you know, it was like, hell, yeah. You know, now she has a partner, and her partner understands and helps her, but it's just like, for a long time, it was really hard. But she. I know she's living off of government support and stuff. State government and federal.

[28:56] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[28:56] CLINT ANDERSON: Just so she can function.

[28:58] SARAH ANDERSON: But you're not. You don't have to.

[29:00] CLINT ANDERSON: No, I'm lucky. I'm really lucky. And that's like, that's.

[29:06] SARAH ANDERSON: Do you feel like you get support from everybody, every, like, all the siblings?

[29:10] CLINT ANDERSON: No, they. I think they want to understand. They just don't.

[29:16] SARAH ANDERSON: But there's the difference. Like, they don't have to understand. But don't you feel like they support you? Like, regardless of not understanding, they still love you?

[29:28] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, they still love me. I know.

[29:31] SARAH ANDERSON: For a while, though, they want to help.

[29:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. In general. Yeah. I think what's interesting, though, is when I was younger, in my earlier twenties, some of the siblings were talking to mom and dad and saying, you know, just get Clint out of the house. You know, he's. And then they had to explain to him the reason why he has to stay at the house.

[29:58] SARAH ANDERSON: Yes.

[29:59] CLINT ANDERSON: Is because I still needed that support, either emotional, monetary, or otherwise.

[30:05] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, why do you think they did that?

[30:07] CLINT ANDERSON: Because they didn't understand.

[30:09] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, but do you think they understand that, like, they've slowly started to understand because that was 20 years ago.

[30:15] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Some better than they were. Yeah.

[30:20] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[30:21] CLINT ANDERSON: Some of their partners still don't understand. Yeah, but we're so, it's like.

[30:28] SARAH ANDERSON: Yes, but those siblings.

[30:30] CLINT ANDERSON: The siblings. Yeah, I think it's gotten a lot better.

[30:33] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. Well, and with your twin sister.

[30:38] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[30:38] SARAH ANDERSON: Do you think because she's a twin, there's any type of. Is that different? The bond. The twin bond versus her being loving, supportive?

[30:52] CLINT ANDERSON: What's funny is I think you lay better to me than Janelle does.

[30:56] SARAH ANDERSON: Yes. But her unconditional love. Do you feel like she still has that unconditional love toward you?

[31:03] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Janelle? Yeah. So. Yeah, I think she does. I think she does. Cuz she, you know, when I, when I had that psychotic break in high school, she. She was there and she didn't know anything about it up until that point. And she kind of, I think her feelings are hurt because she felt like she was on the outside and she didn't have any idea what was going on.

[31:33] SARAH ANDERSON: Well, do you think she does want to know what's going on?

[31:35] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, she does. Now she's asked me.

[31:37] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. And why don't you share?

[31:40] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't want her to worry about it. Which sounds a really pathetic excuse because.

[31:46] SARAH ANDERSON: I think she wants to know because she's your twin sister and she wants.

[31:50] CLINT ANDERSON: Yes, I know she cares but I, you know, there's things I don't share with you. I just don't want to. I just don't want what? The weight of what I feel on a daily basis.

[32:03] SARAH ANDERSON: But I wouldn't feel that weight. How would I feel that weight? I don't experience it.

[32:07] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't know. I just.

[32:09] SARAH ANDERSON: I would want to know what it was, how. How crazy it is.

[32:16] CLINT ANDERSON: Think pirates the depression. Like in a sense because it's like, does really anybody care?

[32:22] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. And don't, don't you think it would be helpful if you something and not put it on Facebook and freak everybody out? Say what did you say?

[32:31] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't. It was like at three in the morning.

[32:34] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. Put something out there like life's not worth it. Worth it goodbye type of.

[32:40] CLINT ANDERSON: No, I did.

[32:41] SARAH ANDERSON: It was pretty close. Yes. And like I get a phone call.

[32:45] CLINT ANDERSON: That was a mistake. I wasn't thinking. Yeah, it's like celebrities. That post on Twitter.

[32:54] SARAH ANDERSON: But did it make you realize how that wasn't interesting because did you get messages from people?

[33:03] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[33:03] SARAH ANDERSON: And what did they say?

[33:05] CLINT ANDERSON: They said, are you all right? You know, what's going on? Stuff like that.

[33:11] SARAH ANDERSON: Like people I wouldn't even think would message you.

[33:15] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[33:16] SARAH ANDERSON: So could you imagine if you made that decision of not existing anymore?

[33:22] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[33:22] SARAH ANDERSON: The effects of people you wouldn't even think probably how it would affect you.

[33:29] CLINT ANDERSON: I don't really think about that.

[33:31] SARAH ANDERSON: I know, but think about it, who it would affect.

[33:36] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Probably people I don't even.

[33:38] SARAH ANDERSON: Bobby freaking Corey.

[33:40] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. You mean Bobby Corey.

[33:42] SARAH ANDERSON: Bobby Corey. Yeah. Sorry, Bobby Corey. She messaged you. She was the first one. I was like, Bobby Corey.

[33:49] CLINT ANDERSON: I know. Isn't that funny?

[33:50] SARAH ANDERSON: No, it's not funny. It's amazing. Yeah, it's interesting, but these people think about it.

[33:58] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[33:59] SARAH ANDERSON: I mean, yeah, the one that just passed away, we don't know if it was accidental or if it was intentional, but I haven't seen him in, I don't know, a ton. Like, I don't know, 20 plus. But it affected me. It affected me. And of course it affected you.

[34:25] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[34:26] SARAH ANDERSON: Because you stayed with his family.

[34:29] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[34:32] SARAH ANDERSON: In high school.

[34:34] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[34:34] SARAH ANDERSON: Because our parents were on a LDS mission.

[34:39] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[34:41] SARAH ANDERSON: So. Yeah.

[34:42] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, it is pretty crazy.

[34:43] SARAH ANDERSON: So how did that affect you?

[34:46] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, probably more than I thought it.

[34:49] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. But when was the last time you saw him and talked to him?

[34:52] CLINT ANDERSON: Uh, it's probably a couple years ago. Two, three years ago.

[34:56] SARAH ANDERSON: Okay. So it's been.

[34:58] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[34:59] SARAH ANDERSON: But anyways, I know what you.

[35:01] CLINT ANDERSON: That's not the point.

[35:02] SARAH ANDERSON: I know, but you. Have you ever thought about it, though?

[35:09] CLINT ANDERSON: Not before, but now I do, and that's the thing. It's kind of a thing that's like.

[35:15] SARAH ANDERSON: Oh, yeah.

[35:17] CLINT ANDERSON: It kind of brings up things that you haven't felt in a while.

[35:20] SARAH ANDERSON: Yep. I mean, even my friend. Remember her, the one that.

[35:25] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[35:26] SARAH ANDERSON: You know, when it was written in the paper. Her mother wrote a thing about the paper in the paper about her passing.

[35:32] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[35:32] SARAH ANDERSON: Did that affect you?

[35:35] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, that one. That was kind of surprising too, because I wasn't very.

[35:39] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah.

[35:40] CLINT ANDERSON: Well acquainted with.

[35:41] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah, exactly. I knew her.

[35:47] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[35:48] SARAH ANDERSON: I've spent time with her. She wasn't like a best. Best friend.

[35:51] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[35:51] SARAH ANDERSON: But her. Her sister was a best friend.

[35:53] CLINT ANDERSON: Oh, that's right.

[35:56] SARAH ANDERSON: But anyway. Yeah. So maybe something to think about it is. That's what I thought about. Like, that's why I don't. I haven't thought about wanting to end my life for years and years and years and years.

[36:11] CLINT ANDERSON: Really?

[36:12] SARAH ANDERSON: Years, Clint, ever since I've been on medication.

[36:18] CLINT ANDERSON: Do you think it was the ECT that helped the electroconvulsive therapy?

[36:24] SARAH ANDERSON: I think it did. And then treatment and then getting the right medications and then after that, like, it's been like, gosh, it's been a long time. 15 years probably, or more anyway, so I don't even think about it.

[36:38] CLINT ANDERSON: Wow.

[36:39] SARAH ANDERSON: But I realized the effects that it would have on people. I don't, because people that we've lost and I didn't. I barely knew them or I only had like, small amount of time with them.

[36:56] CLINT ANDERSON: Uh huh.

[36:56] SARAH ANDERSON: But I still. It still affected me.

[37:00] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah.

[37:01] SARAH ANDERSON: And how it affect people.

[37:06] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. It's. It is kind of crazy when you put it into that aspect.

[37:13] SARAH ANDERSON: Yeah. Well, I'm glad we got there. That's dollar 150.

[37:20] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah. Doctor Sarah Anderson at her disposal. Oh, geez.

[37:28] SARAH ANDERSON: Yep.

[37:29] CLINT ANDERSON: Yeah, it's definitely something to think about. Yeah, I think a lot of people need to think about that too. In realistic circumstances, they are suffering.

[37:38] SARAH ANDERSON: Yep. I think we're done by Clint.

[37:44] CLINT ANDERSON: It's good to see you, Sarah.