Cordelia Ramsey and Phoebe Bergan

[00:04] PHOEBE BERGAN: Hello. My name is Phoebe Bergan I'm 18 years old. Today is April 16, 2024. My birthday was on Friday, so I'm enjoying that. We're at the Dalton school, which is where I've gone to school for the past 1213 years. My partner is Cordelia Ramsey and she is my friend.

[00:31] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah. My name is Cordelia Ramsey. I'm also 18. Today is still April 16, 2024. I'm also at the Dalton school. I've been here for four lovely years. And my interview partner is Phoebe Bergan who's one of my best friends.

[00:50] PHOEBE BERGAN: So, Cordelia, the prompt we've been given today is, what does the Dalton school motto, go forth unafraid, mean to you?

[00:59] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I think, for me, it is kind of my experience at Dalton has given me the resources to kind of confront any issue or any new situation, knowing that I have the capability to get through it and that I have support out there. And I have kind of the confidence in myself and my peers kind of attack new situations, and so I don't fear them. And I've kind of learned how to move through the nerves and through the initial hesitation. So, yeah, I just think kind of go forth unafraid is kind of what I think. Dalton has given me the capability to try things, even if they're new, because I know that I don't need to fear them, because I know that I can do things. Yeah. What about you, Phoebe? What does go forth unafraid mean to you?

[01:51] PHOEBE BERGAN: Well, Cordelia, as we were talking about earlier in spanish class this morning while we were making conchas, the first thing that came to my mind when I thought of go forth unafraid is the idea of safety nets, because I think a lot of people hope that you can go forth knowing that someone will catch you if you fall. But I think the thing about nets is that they get. You can get tangled in them. And so, as you were laughing at me for I thought of a trampoline, because I think I like to think of the skills that Dalton has taught me and the people who Dalton has introduced me to as being people who push me, who will catch me, but will never make me stationary when I need to move on. I think that while they are always there for me, and I feel like Dalton is a community that I know so deeply in such a special way. I know they'll always be there for me, but I also know know that they are going to continue to push me to go forth. So that's what I think about the motto.

[03:12] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Wow, Phoebe, that was really beautiful. Thank you. You know, I'd really welcome if you have any stories or specific examples that you think, you know, anything special about your time, adult. And that really exemplifies your going forth unafraid.

[03:28] PHOEBE BERGAN: You know, every time I nod, this van shakes. But I think of one of the projects that I wanted to do. So I've been at Dalton for 13 years, except for first grade and one semester in my junior year. But I've been in the Dalton school upper, not first program. The biggest built, big block. Oh, my God. The main building, the upper school. I've been there since fourth grade, and I remember in 6th grade meeting this woman at an event, and she told me that she was one of the model un coaches for the middle school. And I was like, that is so cool. Now I'm going to do model un because she's there. And I did not continue to do model un, but I did continue to keep in contact with Miss Edwards. And miss Edwards became my house advisor in 8th grade. And I still have weekly meetings with her as a senior in high school. And I think it could be very easy for me to just mourn not being able to be that close to her anymore as I move on to college. But at the same time, I know that she's always going to be there for me. She's threatened to come up to Poughkeepsie, so I will be seeing her, and she'll continue to push me to go farther and do what's best for me and the people around me and not just stay in one place and kind of, like, not just stay in my comfort zone, but to go to the uncomfortable places, knowing that they're safe and exciting. Thank you. What do you think of Cordelia when you think of your time at Dalton?

[05:36] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Oh, gosh. I think short for starters, I still feel like a freshman who just showed up and is like, what is happening right now?

[05:45] PHOEBE BERGAN: Totally.

[05:47] CORDELIA RAMSEY: But I also think, you know, of all the wonderful people who I've met who have made my life so much more full and exciting and who. It's hard to imagine that I lived a whole lifetime before I met them, you know? And there are, like, a million. While we're shouting out teachers, there are about a million of them who have changed the way I perceive myself, the way I enter a classroom, and, like, the way I speak with teachers in general and the relationships I hope to have with them as I go to college. So, yeah, my time at Dalton is just very, very full of really wonderful people. And, yeah, I feel really lucky that.

[06:27] PHOEBE BERGAN: Dalton has, like, pushed us so hard to build relationships with our teachers in, like, labs and just outside activities so that, like, I'm not at all afraid of office hours. I was at admitted students event over the weekend, and everybody was saying that office hours were scary. And I was like, no, they're not. I'm gonna bring cookies, and it's gonna be a fun time, and I feel really lucky about that. I really want to write thank you letters to all of the most impactful teachers in my Dalton time, but it's such a big undertaking.

[07:07] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah.

[07:08] PHOEBE BERGAN: Because I don't know how to, like, I could. I could mention doctor. I could write a letter to Doctor Zanetz. And, you know, she was not that impactful to me as a teacher. Like, in 9th grade, we were on Zoom the whole time. Like, I didn't really get that much from her, but at the same time, like, chatting with her in the elevator about her son's musical at his school and those kind of relationships where I really feel like I know her and appreciate her, even though I didn't actually get to know her as a teacher that well.

[07:44] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah, for sure. I think there are a lot of teachers I've had who maybe I haven't been very close with one on one, but who have really just reframed everything for me. And there are a few teachers, you know, I'm gonna shout out Mister Hood right now, who have just absolutely transformed the way I understand myself and, you know, creative writing. So I'm gonna go on a little rant, but just the way I kind of enter a classroom in a workshop space, you know, and it's just, like, unforgettable stuff like that. And, yeah, I think all my teachers have set a very high expectation for what a teacher should be. So I'm very excited as well to be able to go to college and advocate for myself, especially in lecture halls and larger groups where you don't know your teacher as well. I still feel comfortable and capable of navigating a relationship that maybe is not as close as the ones I've had at Dalton.

[08:44] PHOEBE BERGAN: Do you think that go forth and afraid is aspirational or realistic?

[08:51] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I think it's a little aspirational. I think fear might be a strong one, but I think it is difficult to go forth without fear, ever. I think that new things are kind of scary for a lot of people, but I also don't think that it's entirely unrealistic. I think that it more means go forth and don't let fear stop you, rather than don't be afraid in the first place. But that's just my take. What do you think?

[09:20] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah, I think you're right. I think actually, when I think of this motto, I think of. Do you remember the Mikey day assembly?

[09:28] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yes, of course.

[09:31] PHOEBE BERGAN: So we had Mikey Day come and give an assembly because he's adult and dad. And he was trying to show us a video, but it was, like, blocked on Dalton, and so we can actually watch it. But while he was trying to get the computer to work, he was just staring at the Dalton logo, which has go forth unafraid audit. And he started making this joke about the way the hands of the woman were positioned and that he got on his big scooter and drove away. And. And I. It's laughable, but I kind of think of. It's not. It's not the most natural thing to do, either as the person who's kind of guiding you away or the person walking away. It doesn't feel like something that happens in your everyday life. But at the same time, I think it's a really good thing to reach for. And even things that don't feel them as natural can be really good for you in the long run. So I think I appreciate that. You know, it's a really high bar to ask your students to go forth on afraid, especially when you're a prep school in New York City where, like, kids have a huge amount of stress, some of the highest stresses in the country. Although obviously there are a lot of stressful situations. But I think, at the same time, that can be a good thing to push for. Do you remember when we met?

[11:19] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yes. It was freshman orientation on a zoom. I was sitting in a chair in a really dark corner, and I joined your breakout room with, I believe, Jamie Lennon and maybe Josie, because I remember being like, oh, thank God they speak so I don't have to. And you were very social, and you had, like, this warm lighting, and you were just like an angel sent from the heavens. Cause I didn't know anyone. And you spoke.

[11:48] PHOEBE BERGAN: I did speak. I couldn't stop speaking, actually. So grateful. I actually got through freshman year being so angry at myself for continuing to talk when I didn't want to talk.

[12:01] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I promise you, everyone else loves you, I think.

[12:06] PHOEBE BERGAN: But I think we've gotten to a point as seniors when, like, you engage so much more with the people around you. And I love seeing that. Like, I love seeing you with the freshman and blue flag. You do a really good job of, you know, when I met you, I was like, oh, she's really quiet. And you were at the time, but now you've kind of blossomed. And I think, in the same way, I've kind of learned when to pick my moments a little bit better. Some ADHD medication helped, but I. It's really, really nice to see you ready to go forth somewhere else with this new part of you.

[12:59] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Thank you. Well, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for people like you who are so nice. Like, see, you don't actually have to be so afraid of all of us.

[13:09] PHOEBE BERGAN: I'm curious how your relationship changed going.

[13:12] CORDELIA RAMSEY: From virtual to meeting in person. When did you guys actually meet in person?

[13:17] PHOEBE BERGAN: And was it like, oh, my God.

[13:18] CORDELIA RAMSEY: You'Re the face that I've seen on.

[13:19] PHOEBE BERGAN: My computer screen for a year. I don't even know. I think we added you to the group chat Banta Sabie, or was it disco jazz? I don't remember.

[13:28] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I don't remember what that was.

[13:29] PHOEBE BERGAN: Like, group chat names. But freshman year, I feel like I didn't really get to know you on a personal basis until a lot later. Yeah, like, I knew you kind of threw Sam. So Sam is our friend. Sam was my middle school friend and kind of your quarantine friend who now goes to a boarding school in Vermont and is going to be going to Smith next year. And Sam is so cool, but love Sam. When we were in freshman and sophomore year, I was kind of intimidated by you because I not only did I think you were kind of like, you reserved in a way that made me think you were just, like, cooler than everybody else, but I also loved your style. I was like, she listens to good music and she watches. Like, she reads. Like, that's so cool. I could never be like her. I could never be friends with her. That's crazy. So it wasn't until, like, junior year, or maybe even a little bit this year, that I think we really got to talking one on one since Anand got keeps skipping spanish class on us.

[14:51] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah, I do remember, though, I think. Would you come into those, like, in person at the very end of freshman year? I feel like I remember you.

[14:59] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yes.

[14:59] CORDELIA RAMSEY: And we'd eat lunch in the dance studio.

[15:01] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yes.

[15:03] CORDELIA RAMSEY: And these, like, chairs, like, socially distanced, but, like, not really in the dance studio with our little tracks around our necks.

[15:11] PHOEBE BERGAN: Oh, my God. Can we go back to trackers?

[15:17] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah, they had, like, little trackers. They only tracked the other trackers so they could, like, see who your close.

[15:22] PHOEBE BERGAN: Contact is, how far away from you.

[15:25] CORDELIA RAMSEY: And you had to, like, scan out every day. Like, scan a QR code on the back. And it never worked. So if you had to go, you could not leave. It was crazy. They did their best. Very grateful, but they were like these big, ugly trackers that we all wore around our nest. Yeah.

[15:41] PHOEBE BERGAN: Which was, I thought, very thoughtful, but ultimately made it really hard. 9th grade.

[15:48] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yes.

[15:49] PHOEBE BERGAN: So 10th grade kind of felt like 9th grade.

[15:52] CORDELIA RAMSEY: 10Th grade was 9th grade.

[15:55] PHOEBE BERGAN: And I remember I didn't stop wearing a mask to school until maybe November of junior year.

[16:04] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah, I took mine off in September.

[16:06] PHOEBE BERGAN: So it was a really, really long time.

[16:10] CORDELIA RAMSEY: It was a long time. It was a lot of high school.

[16:12] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah. All the photos.

[16:14] CORDELIA RAMSEY: All the photos.

[16:15] PHOEBE BERGAN: All the photos that I look back on, and I'm like, should I add these to my, you know, senior page or whatever?

[16:20] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Oh, yeah, my yearbook page. I just, like, masked at everything.

[16:22] PHOEBE BERGAN: Everything is just masked.

[16:24] CORDELIA RAMSEY: They're all pictures from this year.

[16:25] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah. Was that a scary transition to take off your mask both for, like, health reasons, but also, like, to show your face again? Was that part of it, too? Definitely. I think it was also, like, for all the months of 9th grade, like, up until March, whenever people saw my face, I had decided how I would look on the zoom video. You know, I picked my background. I had low lighting, and the little, like, manually, like, filter for low lighting turned up on the zoom, which made me look, like, glowy. And. And then you get off zoom and suddenly you're like, oh, my gosh. Everybody's, like, judging my outfits. Which was never an issue over Zoom, but you had to think about what you wore, and you had to think about, you know, if I take my mask off, am I gonna look like. I don't know. I don't even know. It was just weird.

[17:25] CORDELIA RAMSEY: And I remember being like, this is the first time these people are really seeing me, and I have to make such a good first impression.

[17:32] PHOEBE BERGAN: You did.

[17:32] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Okay. I think I gave, like, a terrifying, like. Because I tried really hard. I was like, I'm gonna be cool. In high school. You were so cool. Did not work. But I tried really hard because I was like, this is who I'm gonna be for the next four years. I have to know exactly who I am right now. Thankfully, people were very generous as I changed, quite hopefully extremely since then.

[17:54] PHOEBE BERGAN: But you haven't been shared.

[17:55] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Thank you.

[17:56] PHOEBE BERGAN: You're welcome. Where you took off your mask or.

[17:58] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Went in for the first time.

[17:59] PHOEBE BERGAN: Was it creepy? Was that, like, I have no memory.

[18:05] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I came back maskless in 11th grade, so it was just the first day of school, but I remember coming into the building for the first time. I mean, I'd been for, like, admission stuff pre Covid. So I'd been into the building, but it was. They had, like, optional days where you would sign up for a day and come in in person to take your classes on Zoom on the 14th floor. And you'd be socially distanced. And I had a group of kids I would come with who I was friends with, but not very close with. So I'd kind of just sit on my own in the room. And I, like, I was terrified. I spent hours on my outfits. I lived, like, my mom would have to drive me in. Cause she wouldn't let me take the subway. And it was like a whole ordeal to the point where I got there and was like, this is not school. This is a performance. And I have to look really, really cool. One has to be super social.

[18:51] PHOEBE BERGAN: When did school stop being a performance?

[18:54] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Probably not until this year when I was like, I don't care anymore.

[18:57] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah.

[18:58] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Cause I think last year, 10th grade, was 9th grade. So that was like getting into high school. And then last year, I finally started to loosen up. But then this is the year where I was like, I know these people. Like, I really know them in a way that I hope I would wish I could have done sooner.

[19:13] PHOEBE BERGAN: But, yeah, I think it was junior fall for me, too. It was a very, very gradual process for me, taking my mask off. Like, initially it was just to eat, and then, like, not even. And then eventually I would, like, take it off a little bit more and then a little bit more, like, excuses, like during rehearsals and things like that. When you had to flex your face muscles. Of course I remember on the 10th grade retreat.

[19:40] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Oh, my gosh.

[19:42] PHOEBE BERGAN: I remember we all stood in this giant circle around a basketball court. And I remember being like, there's Orion in our grade. Like, what? There's a second aiden? It was mind boggling that there were people in my grade who I didn't know, because in middle school, I'd known everybody. First and last name. And then suddenly I thought I knew everybody, and then I didn't. So that was a little scary. But I think junior year, I finally realized that I didn't have to do everything all the time.

[20:25] CORDELIA RAMSEY: It does.

[20:26] PHOEBE BERGAN: Because when I did everything all the time, I didn't do it right.

[20:29] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah.

[20:29] PHOEBE BERGAN: For real.

[20:31] CORDELIA RAMSEY: It took until the end of last year for me to meet the final member of our grade who I had not methadone and who I've still never had a conversation with. But now I know exists who Zach Berg.

[20:44] PHOEBE BERGAN: Oh, Zach.

[20:45] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Cause I don't have.

[20:45] PHOEBE BERGAN: He's pretty active.

[20:47] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah. But for, like, years, we were, like, potted by, like, Covid groups. So I had my Covid group and, like, 10th grade as well. I was like, I had the same, like, core group of people in all my classes.

[20:58] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah.

[20:58] CORDELIA RAMSEY: And still now, because of, like, scheduling and levels and, like, extracurricular. Not extracurriculars, electives. I still have classes with the same group of people and who I've known for, like, four years. So there are people who I've had, like, every class with for a long time and then people who I've never had a class with before. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

[21:19] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah. Sometimes I remember that people in our grade exist and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I remember them like, I could still see them in the hallway any day now. But for me, it's a momentous.

[21:32] CORDELIA RAMSEY: That's crazy.

[21:33] PHOEBE BERGAN: I don't know. We pause. I'm so proud of you.

[21:41] CORDELIA RAMSEY: You too.

[21:42] PHOEBE BERGAN: And you're gonna kill it in college, and I really want to stay in touch with you.

[21:47] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yes, please. Oh, my God, Phoebe.

[21:49] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah.

[21:49] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yes. Yeah.

[21:50] PHOEBE BERGAN: You've given me an excuse to go to St. Louis, which I never thought I would want.

[21:57] CORDELIA RAMSEY: No. Yeah. But you've just continually been such an amazing presence in my life. Could not have done high school without you. And very excited to see all the good stuff you do in college.

[22:07] PHOEBE BERGAN: Yeah.

[22:08] CORDELIA RAMSEY: I will be visiting you.

[22:09] PHOEBE BERGAN: Inspire me to go forth unafraid.

[22:11] CORDELIA RAMSEY: Yeah, you too.