Audrey Taylor and Shannon Donnovan

00:01 All right, go ahead.

00:03 My name is Audrey Taylor. I'm 42 today is March 28th, 2018. We are in Anchorage Alaska and then my relationship to my partner. She's my colleague and my friend.

00:18 My name is Shannon. Donovan of my age is 43 today's date is 3-28-2018. I am in Anchorage Alaska and the relationship to my partner is colleague and friend.

00:32 Alright already. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do for work?

00:37 I am a untenured assistant professor of Environmental Studies at the University of alaska-anchorage and the department of geography and Environmental Studies. I teach science and conservation biology and I do research mostly on birds distribution abundance migratory patterns of birds around Alaska. I'm also really interested in applications of Citizen science and engaging undergrads and graduate students in research experiences.

01:14 And I was can you tell us a little bit about a recent project of yours?

01:19 I sure love the one I was working on before I came here. I'm working with an undergrad who was my field tech last summer at a swallow Colony. Please follow Colony that we have outside Anchorage and we've been working out there for a while looking at where the birds are coming in from how they're spending the colony and one of the questions is where they going in the winter. And so were using stable isotopes to try to track migration patterns match it up with juul locator date us we have these old tags on the birds that give us information about where they go during the winter. So we're trying to match up this stable isotope technology with the geolocator technology.

02:07 How about you? What are you do for work? I am a associate professor of environmental studies at University of Alaska. I am also the chair of the department with my second year as chair. I am 10-year tenterden 2015 conservation social scientists and Ashley my training originally started in wildlife management and I migrated over to the social sciences. I work a lot with federal agencies and Community Partners to do community engagement research on a participatory research on people's perceptions around environmental issues. I also teach environmental policy and I do a lot of undergraduate research in the classroom and other high impact teaching practices such a service learning.

03:02 Okay, and can you tell us about a recent product of me recent project? I'm working on a couple new things right now that I've been involved in one is helping and courage in developing Drafting and engaging stakeholders around their new climate action plan trying to devise strategies for getting input on that plan and figuring out ways to make sure that it's environmentally just and Equitable for the different stakeholders and diversity of voices that need to be considered.

03:41 You guys are in the same Department?

03:51 Chaos a little chaotic. We have a small Department The Three core faculty like most Environmental Studies programs borrows a lot of faculty and resources from other disciplines and we are very similar to that. But we do have three core faculty two of which were Audrey and I and one of which is a male colleague and I asked her to mail call a colleague who is in touch with his feminine side. So it's a lot of

04:22 We do some collegial banter back and forth and generally have a pretty good time when it's just the three of us in conversation and a typical day generally involves one of us running into work late heading drop the kids off with lots of bags. We always have lots of bags right bags with lunch bags of workout gear bags of books children's bags that you forgot to drop off with the children the bag of computers and then we get to work and then we realized I forgot one of those bags at home right the bag and hopefully not the lunch bag and then we get there and there's usually some inter-departmental stuff that needs to be talked about WeChat.

05:10 I get down to work.

05:12 We get interrupted inevitably about 10 minutes later by something critical that has to be done right then right that moment and then we teach

05:20 BCC research and then we do a lot of admin in paperwork meetings love me. There's lots of meeting you a lot of doodle polls with meanings death by doodle Poll for doodle poll. I'm going to do it all and at the end of the day, you know, the academic time frame isn't really measured in days or weeks, right? It's kind of measured in semesters, but for the academic the you're measured by an annual activity report, right? So you say you're going to do something at the beginning of the year actually spring before the year starts and then at the end you're supposed to say whether or not you did these things and then the sex of your for the end also list the five thousand other things that you had no idea. We're going to come on between when you had to decide what you were going to do and then when you had to report what you were going to do

06:15 Fate and sometimes the big things that you want to do have to get mashed into the little spaces in between all the things that you didn't know you were going to have to do and sometimes a big things just don't just don't get it done anywhere and it's kind of funny to have this conversation right now cuz we are over halfway through the semester but it's the point in the semester where everybody is pretty running around pretty hairy been crazy and frenzy, although I think we talked about this before when we just got a call for proposal that came out because her life drop from the sky internal funding of up to a million dollars, which is really ironic since were pretty resource-poor in the university and it's due the proposals are due in 4 weeks. And so people are starting to scramble and I'm scrambling to try and put together a team.

07:10 Was I going to say something about?

07:22 Obviously that was Grant they were scrambling and funding drops from the sky and people were saying

07:31 It's such a busy time of that such a busy time. I can't believe that they would put this opportunity out now, but the truth is at the beginning of the semester is a very busy time at the end. It doesn't have mustard that you're not paid to work which is still a busy times to get working. Right and there's a fallacy. I think that academics have there in summer off and we all sit by the pool and we drink Frosty drink some we paint our toenails and generally do nothing for you by your last in pool by don't sit by my my Wetland of the back of my yard that has four billion mosquitoes per square inch and I definitely don't pay my toenails and eat bon-bons and drink Frosty drinks because the summer is the time where you're trying to get all those things that you promised to do during the year that you didn't get done and then try to have some kind of a research component which doesn't get done during the semester. So it ends up being pretty pretty busy usually to and the additional contract work we getting

08:31 Outside funded work that we get. I think it's important to probably note that are University is pretty heavy teaching load. So we both teach on average 3 courses a semester. I'm so it can be really difficult to get the research components of our work done during the year. So we we rely a lot on summer time to get extra stuff done with her be publishing and working on community partner reports. And then we also if we were developing new classes trying to do that collecting data, which is nice to do during the summer because you have time to actually do it and then taking care of the kids which are also not in school, but turn during that time. I was right beside component to at 2.

09:14 And then tell your kids grow up enough to be filled text. They're sort of.

09:20 Not always the most useful when you're collecting data, bring your two-year-old to work day doesn't really work out right? Yes. I tried it last summer. It was a marginal failure.

09:32 We went out to Otter Lake. Where are the tree Colony tree swallow colony where that I was talking about earlier and then I brought so lay with me in the backpack and we went around we checked all the boxes for occupancy. She thought that was cool. She like catching the birds and that was cool. But when we started bleeding birds and when we spent a half an hour looking at a bird intense Lane collecting all these measurements she decided that was pretty boring and then she started hissing porcupine in that became quickly not really a good direction to go your two-year-old. So we had to put an end to that activity.

10:07 Well, I guess that makes me think of overtime up before about the the flexibility of the academic model that there is a built-in flexibility because in addition to not being measured in days, we also are able to somewhat dictate our own schedules. I mean, we have our classes that are scheduled at specific times, but we sent our department and Ann Arbor College we can kind of also dictate a little bit when those classes are going to be when our office hours are going to be and then by the time we get through all our do the polls are overlapping doodle polls that seemingly never get the loop closed down so that have conflicting meeting times but we're able to kind of decide. Well, we're going to leave this time open to do research or we're going to try and not schedule meeting was later in the day cuz that's when we have to pick up the kids from school, but that I guess I feel like that flexibility is can be a bit of a double-edged sword because

11:07 Who makes it hard to carve out the time you need to get everything done? Because it's it's a lot easier to push things off and to also bring a lot of work home or be constantly looking at the phone for emails because there's so much to do but not all of the hard deadlines you might have another model.

11:31 Yeah, I think that it's it's remarkable how flexible Academia can be and that when you go into it socially if you intend to be Apparently one of the reasons I went into Academia is because I thought it would be a good balance between having a fairly intense career and having children and that you have a lot of this flexibility and have a lot of Independence to schedule your own time and so on but yes, it can be misleading in terms of of being able to actually accomplish all the things you need to accomplish because

12:10 You have your own internal deadline to have your own set of things you want to accomplish and many of those are easy to push aside in favor of other things that get put on your plate. And so and it's hard to say. No because you don't have specific guidelines for things that you absolutely have to get done so it can be a very confusing process to try to sort out what's urgent, but not important and important but not urgent and know the difference between those two and I I have definitely struggled with that in the first few years of my time at UAA with how to structure personal time how to fit family time how to fit research time in amongst the teaching in the doodle polls in the endless meetings.

12:57 Thoughty2 it tell me your secret. I don't everyday all day. Well, I bet like a lot of working parents. I think I've started to really believe that the idea of having it all is a mess and that's perpetuated by I don't know somebody who has a lot of help and they can have it all but I do think most of the time you can have a lot right? So there so many balls and you can keep a number of balls in the air at one time, but other balls are going to fall in the floor, right? So

13:39 On any given week I might do a really good job balancing work and family but not as good of a job on getting exercise and taking care of whatever personal things that I need to do. And so I guess if you can make sure to have a balance there so that it's not always like just family and I just work then overtime right? There can be more the balance you told you. You actually told me that once I remember that stuck in my mind because I think it was my first year and I was sort of discussing with you. Probably there's a word that begins with a B that I would use in terms of how I was describing this issue to you but complaining a little bit about the difficulty finding all these things and then you said something to the effect of the others always one ball on the floor at at a time at that maybe two or three balls. You just have to make sure those are not always the same balls.

14:39 On the ground at the same time at some point some of the balls to be in the are some of the balls matzo balls are up and moving then you're right and that it's different balls in the air at different times so that you're not always dropping the same one that you're balancing it all pretty. Well, I know since so I came here like you pre children pre-marriage got married had kids. I have to have two kids. So fantastic five and a half year old two and a half year old are almost three-year-old almost 5 year old and I've been it UA for 9 years. And so when I started I thought I I was very busy cuz I was super engaged most of my time was going to work and then I would have some time for exercise and some time for relationships and finding that we were talking about that the other day like remember when we used to go to the movies and go to shows and go out to dinner.

15:39 It seems you seem so pressed for time and then add in family kids. I find like wow for some so much more efficient than I used to be. I've gotten way better at saying no, but the other thing that I think I've done at the end I had people can ask me about how I've been able to bounce houses. I try and

16:03 Be really good about the partners. I picked to work with who not always greater than his for trying to pick people who are going to be easy to work with and have kind of like mindedness around deadlines and what they need to get stuff done cuz I I find when I work with people who have really super different views is not always a terrible thing, but it does get a little bit more complicated like if they are very last-minute people. Why should I should I should put myself in the camp? I'm sort of a last-minute person. And if that if there's someone who's not a last-minute person has a little bit every day after work that help but just try to get a little bit more efficient in figuring out how Partnerships work and how to make sure that I can do my best and meeting their needs and I mean mine is but I've also tried to figure out how to take research projects and work them into classes and work them into other parts of what I need to do for my job. So that way it's not always

17:03 New things for everything I do. So for example, like 5 or research project often have undergraduate research students that are doing something for courseworks2 becomes like a bit of a teaching activity to and that kind of is helpful it I hate this phrase, but it's killing multiple for two months now and hopefully I'm not feeling anything while I'm doing it.

17:31 I thought you didn't want me to say killing two birds with one stone. So I think it has been helpful. But I sometimes think about if I didn't have kids now like how much more I would do because

17:53 You know kids are not an extracurricular activity living breathing, which is a part of my life that I loved before. So I guess I think of myself as full-time mother as well as full-time academic, but at the same time it's been a huge luxury and I was just saying this is somebody the other day is that I can just work 24 hours a day, you know, I pick up the kids and leaving today. We're going to swim lessons and we're going to go home and make dinner and we're going to do the reading and you know, so for hours and hours have to check out and that is actually you know what I think certainly it is built in balance in Waze.

18:40 I think the other than kids do to is make you really think about where you can double up efforts. He and I like you start exercising with your friends. So you pick friends that do exercise after you do that together and you pick research projects that you can work on with people, you know in like so that you get some social time while you're doing that and then you teach classes where you can engager undergraduate researchers in the class so that there's some crossover there and that become sort of a way of both enjoying your time or and making things more meaningful and also just taking care of some of those those times when you feel like there's just not enough time for everything which is pretty much how I feel all the time. But the meaning of of the word busy we were talking about this yesterday how when you don't have kids and and you're working work is sort of like your child right? It's what you do all the time you think about

19:40 All the time you're engaging in it all the time. It's exciting and new and interesting and brings you all of this interesting feedback. And then you have kids and you realize they do the same thing for you. And so then it becomes like there's a. Of the other day where you just have to shut off work and say I'm going to pay attention to this other part of my life now and until you have kids you don't realize what impact that's going to have on how you feel about work and and free time and personal time and we were talking about number one used to do all this stuff ourselves that we are interested in and now we go to the pool when we go to the playground and you go to the gymnastics club and I really don't want to be at the gymnastics Club, but it's interesting and there's a parent there. I can talk to them from that be fun.

20:36 You and I were on maternity leave at the same time. So we I have a older son, but you and I have children who are 3 weeks or weeks apart, right? So and are tiny Department of 3 people two of us were absurdly pregnant waddling around and figuring out how we were going to have these babies and what was going to happen to the department in while we were taking off time and luckily again that our colleague was don't touch with his feminine side that he very was supportive of us needing to do what we needed to do and not not worrying too much about what happened to the department while we were gone and

21:17 We ended up taking really different strategies in part because of where we were in our a career trajectory. So I was about to be tenured and and found out that I had 10 years right after I had my son and you were only four years in right and so it was a little bit of a different way. So I actually had a sabbatical coming so I had a full year off campus where I was working on a project and and then taking care of new baby and end kids because of it was very flexible in nature and again tried to carve out as much time as I give it a flexibility and I made it hard. Luckily. I didn't you know finish my sabbatical project somehow somewhere and then you had a different version of maternity leave of reduce workload and shuffling things around that way, but we both did try and maximize the amount of time. I think that we could stay home.

22:17 With the kids which I think it's partly our personality types right in wanting to keep family and both of us seemingly wanting to keep family and kids at a top priority and luckily we have jobs that we can do that and I'm super thankful again as much as that flexibility can be a double-edged sword for me. I was able to be home for about 15 months with both my kids with different variations of workload reductions and and whatnot. But I can't really imagine how difficult it would be able to have a job where I had to go back to work full-time after two or three months whether it be because that was the requirement or because of my own work ethic or my own financial needs or whatever that I I felt that I had to return. I think that would be really really hard.

23:09 Rights of those are the upside right to the sort of continual chaos and feeling like as the only one dictating your deadlines and boundaries and so and you have to make difficult decisions and sometimes those decisions don't always work in your favor. The flip side is that both of us were able to stay home with our kids and Ashley. I didn't take quite 15 months. I think I was home with Sole for about 10 before she was in daycare full time. But you know that is not something that the majority of people have as a luxury so that's the upside to a flexible academic careers is being able to set some of those kind of ground rules for yourself how you're going to do things and I have really appreciated that in addition. I think some of that

23:58 UNR Department, there's not a lot of external pressure on us just from our department to do things a certain way. You know, we are all sorts of a similar mindset in terms of being flexible. And so I think a lot of those pressures are set internally if we can figure out how to regulate those, you know the advice for anybody thinking about going into this field would be definitely stop for yourself internal boundaries in deadline. So you don't feel crazy all the time. I think that's something I've struggled with a little bit.

24:30 Getting better at this time goes on what can be difficult to prioritize for sure. Yeah. There's always a good idea and everything, right? Somebody come see with the proposal idea potential paper book or class. You could teach sounds great. Right? So exciting somebody wants me to do something. This is fantastic, but then you have to figure out where in the priority landscape it fits without losing sight of all of the other things that are currently on your plate and things you might want to do in the future might have to go

25:06 I guess there's also something I think about a lot is that there are these different chapters of our lives right? Like the young childhood chapter, you know, the young family that the house is always dirty and the kids are waking up early in the morning. I will always lundry there's always so much laundry and every night right and you know try and remember that these times are not going to last that long pretty soon. They're not like his I feel like I've stepped back on some things particularly after take maternity leave does not like you can step away from research projects for a year or more. You have to continue to be active your partner's to get to meet your deadlines. And so for me and I'll before I went on the the leaves I tried to wrap things up my second child.

26:06 Actually 555 week preemie and came the week before finals and was talk about chaos adding to the chaos. It was a week before your baby shower. Don't forget that Audrey was kind enough to organize then turn into some meal. Tray trying to wrap up Loose Ends, which feels good like okay, I can step back and then it's re-entry to the job and having to start some new projects and I already had Partners but it is a bit of starting this feeling of starting over again, but trying to remind myself through that that it's a chapter of like stepping back and and then getting back into it now. I feel like I'm last year. I was back full time and then this year, I'm I'm back full time again. So I'm two years since having a baby that I've been back full-time and able to start up these new projects and feeling like there's a bit of synergy and more.

27:06 Request a participating puzzles and things like that that I am I feel like I'm kind of getting back into a position where I can shape my research agenda and think about what I really want to do rather than feeling questioning like I've stepped back. What does that mean in terms of my like long-term research prospects and how am I going to build this up? So the great thing is so you're tenured right? So that I think is a big mental switch her. I imagine at the mental switch hoping to get there myself some point soon. But now what about a month before your kind of crazy taking everything that comes along because it might represent some funding looks good on your CV helps you get to that sort of Pinnacle of academic progress and then hopefully nauert

28:06 Coming back from maternity leave and being able to sort of set your own agenda. You can pick and choose a little bit more least. That's what I'm hoping. It looks like down the road because it does definitely fill in the beginning like a sort of shotgun approach to research which can be interesting and stuff. But I've heard from other people it's nice to be able to focus when you get a little bit past that time your mark, right? Yeah. I'm I think that's true. I mean you definitely right as you continue down your path don't want to be switching Focus all over the place cuz every 3 years things right, but you also want to become a bit of an expert in part because of what you can contribute but also because it's really not like you want to be Innovative, but you also have to have a bit of longevity there.

29:01 I feel like other women I've talked to you.

29:06 Both are University in other places who struggle with the balance and how to do it all have have thought that my Approach of taking as much time as I have to be with the kids was was really risky because the first one I wasn't any word yet and the second one, you know, I was 10 years old but sabbatical and you know tenders no guarantee as to what's going to happen when you know, I guess I never really saw it as risky. I never thought about it in that way because kind of like you part of the reason I want to get a Macadamia was so that I could have some cuz of the flexibility. So I really wanted to capitalize on that flexibility in a way that would make the most sense both career-wise and family-wise. So I feel like if you can figure that out though.

30:02 The secret door, then you can be happy even if there are the occasional balls on the floor. So you might trip over that you might trip over every now and then right and it's going to look different for everybody. I think that's an important point that I've learned throughout this journey so far. Is that what everybody else does is what works for them and you know, people will say and I can't believe you're taking a sabbatical without knowing about 10-year. I can't believe you're having a kid before you have done or whatever the case might be. So let me know for everybody. It looks different along the way along the journey in this sort of field and

30:50 I think it's cool. It's never going to be an exact replica of somebody else's experience. And so I hadn't realized I guess going into this position how flexible and how different each person's academic career could look in terms of their research and they're they're teaching workload and their service and you know, there's just a huge amount going back to the steamer flexibility there and there's this huge amount of flexibility that you can tailor to your own interest knowing what those interesar is key that take some time to figure out to knowing where your where your boundaries are and figuring out what's important to you that's taking me a little while to figure out but

31:35 There's fortunately there's room to negotiate and respond within the the flexible situation and it's important to note that we are definitely among the luckiest.

31:51 In terms of flexibility because our department is so we have such a supportive and collegial environment where we all are friends and wanting each other to succeed and want to help each other. We don't have any of the Cutthroat Ness that you might find in other departments. And so I think that really helps promote.

32:15 Sustainable life and flexible helps promote this flexible pattern for parenting and and working. I think if you were in a different department or a different University, or maybe it is quite a bit more Cutthroat or you have a micromanaging supervisor, whether it be a director Dean or something. He was trying to make sure you're in your office, you know that 9 hours a day and and is taking way that flexibility which I know is can be prolific another institutions and maybe even someone in our institution in different colleges.

32:56 Then then that would make it really difficult because if if you don't have the flexibility of Academia, it becomes a lot more difficult to be an academic parent, I think.

33:08 Yeah, I completely agree. I think we're very lucky and I think that if I were ever to think about going someplace different, I would definitely consider the size of the department and the makeup and try to figure out what was going to make the most flexible and welcoming and sort of well-rounded place to be because of Any characteristic of the the whole experience being in a place where you feel like your colleagues support you and want the best for you and are willing to let you take risks and let you do things differently that is huge in terms of making the flexibility work and you could you could be in a flexible situation like I could do Mia and have people surrounding you that aren't supportive and and don't want the best for you and that flexibility could actually be sort of a negative because it could be overwhelming and I'm I going to choose the wrong thing.

34:08 People going to not like what I'm doing in my going to get slammed by my colleagues, you know for choosing a particular direction, but we just don't have that experience. We're all we all do very different things. But we all need to come together and celebrate our differences in our our similarities rather than looking at it from a negative perspective. That is I think really important

34:32 I do think they're so I think this happens in any culture that is with high Achievers and particularly and Macadamia and maybe in the Science World. There's a culture here to of women working moms who are wanting to

34:51 Kind of out giving each other a like well, I put the baby down at 8, but I still had to stay up until 2 in the morning to finish this Grand and so that that is maybe just the nature of the overachieving.

35:06 15 hour and that's what draws a lot of people to accademia right is like really a bunch of like over pushes people away the idea that I have to do that right, but I think even if you don't have to do it, some people are still just really I mean, we all have to do it sometimes that's just the way it goes. You just have sometimes those deadlines creep up into many balls have dropped and you find yourself.

35:30 Pulling out all nighter near all-nighter and luckily, you know, I don't have nearly as many of those as I used to but I think there's quite a lot of of people who are or doing them either because they don't recognize the opportunity for flexibility or the support to create their flexible schedule or it's just an innate in them to want to work the hardest do the most

35:55 Let me know how else to describe it, but that's the best to be the best as part of a chemical charger.

36:04 You guys have learned from you now apply to teaching research.

36:18 To think about that for a minute bring snacks. If somebody can misinterpret something that you have said they will

36:33 There's always misinterpretation possible.

36:40 I think that.

36:45 Being kind and caring and butt

36:49 Setting distinct boundaries specially for your students in your research technicians and so on. You know, they that they just like young kids kids of any age people of any age need good guidance straight. So I used to think it was great to be able to set people loosen do what you want to do and then work our toddler. It is really work for a twenty-two-year-old either. Everybody needs some rules to follow. So that's kind of been an interesting point to learn I think.

37:20 Actually think I mean, I've definitely learned parenting things that I apply in the classroom. I'm sure but it's first come into my mind. I think I've learned some things in the classroom working student. I've applied to Parenting. One of the things is when I get an excuse from a student particularly via email that has a lot of commas in it like my car broke down my cat died and my dad's in the hospital. I begin to think like the more sort of complicated the excuse that may be part of it isn't true and contrived and I think about that in printing with my own five year old when he is says it wasn't my fault. I didn't do it might have my brother bit me and something happened and then I slipped and I fell in the dog, I think maybe none of this is a picture from the internet.

38:12 But I you know, I do think you're right about

38:18 Everybody would regardless of their age needing the enthusiastic person in their corner with herpes a parent over there because a teacher or whether you're helping an undergraduate researcher and truly even with research and how you're going to lead a team. Obviously. I'm not going to say to my co-authors All Eyez on Me, please when I'm trying to think that understanding like we all have to learn differently in the come from things from a different perspective starting in the we Ages II we bring that with us to the table. It's easy to think about you no grown ups or just

39:04 Big kids in different bodies, right

39:08 Yes, very true. And you're right and everybody needs an enthusiastic Champion whether it's your kid or your or your students or your research technician, so I think learning the ways that people respond positively and how you can encourage people to do what you want done which is particularly difficult with a toddler but by being encouraging and positive instead of Beethoven demeaning, and anyway, that's definitely an overlap between parenting and featuring.

39:40 And I think the having a cohort of like-minded friends is really important for helping troubleshoot and strategize. So you were saying you learn to be more efficient. Maybe your your friends are also people that you exercise with was probably also people you talk about parenting with and in our case, we run a lot together Mesquite together. We're pregnant we swam to Aqua jog together and we cover a lot of ground doing that in our personal lives in our professional lives and for us since we go through a lot of the same things having kids the same age and being in the same Department. I think that's really helpful to be able to talk through things.

40:25 I agree completely of the journey is much better when there's somebody.

40:30 Holding your hand or being there next to you as you go along the whole route helps you figure stuff out helps you complain when things are bad and celebrate when things are good and figure out things when

40:44 When you need a a little bit of a solution, so yeah, but find a friend and a colleague has a friend even better trying to call you as a friend find a friend who's a colleague goes both ways exactly.

41:01 Little bit about how you got to where you were artificial.

41:07 Her background. Let's see. I started being interested. I'm a I'm a wildlife biologist by training and I started being interested in wildlife biology. My dad remembers me being somewhere between 10 and 12 and saying that I wanted to be a marine biologist go dive with the whales. I think that dream was somewhat limited by the fact that at the time I didn't live anywhere near any whales and I didn't know how to dive and I couldn't really hold my breath for very long. So I sort of eventually realize that maybe terrestrial Wildlife was with more in line with what I could do. And so I did my undergrad at Cornell University and wildlife biology and natural resources management study. That's how I found it fascinating but hard to make a living in fats. Just not that many people that work on bath. So then I did my math

42:07 1st degree at Colorado State University on large mammals and responses to Recreation and found that really fascinating.

42:15 But most careers working with large mammals lead you into some game management and state wildlife management agency and I didn't really want to do that and somewhere in between my Master's and what came after I had a job working for USGS where I was sent out on the Great Plains Northern Great Plains with a map and a compass and a Jeep. I think there might have been a GPS unit in there too. And I was supposed to find places where they were Shorebirds and we were looking at the landscape contacts to wear shore birds are migrating what habitats are important and it was just fascinating. I've never been to the Great Plains before and it was beautiful and there were all these random Shorebirds you look in the rearview mirror and there be shore birds flying everywhere. And so I was just fascinated by the concept of bird migration and how that's changing with climate change and human development and all kinds of other impacts. And so then I started a PhD working on shorebird.

43:15 Breeding biology and migration up in Barrow Alaska, and that brought me to uaf and then that brought me from Chile to uan.

43:24 Here I am.

43:29 My background is that I am from New York originally and

43:36 I did my undergraduate work at University New Hampshire from City area. Yes, New York. I should say and Reporting on Audrey's from upstate, New York, Buffalo, New York.

44:00 And then I am I went to nearest New Hampshire for my undergraduates degree, which I got and Wildlife Management. I was was really into wild life and into animals and really really likes the work. I was doing there got the chance to be undergraduate research for my advisor and wanted to pursue a graduate degree. I did a couple field tech jobs and then got a graduate assistantship in West Virginia University where I wanted to wildlife management, but this project was in a really great fit. It wasn't very much of the things that I was interested in. And so I had an opportunity to switch over to be more social science stuff and Recreation and tourism and ultimately started a project on helping develop a Heritage tourism strategic plan for West Virginia to help them move away from a strictly mining towns helping them develop tourism experiences.

45:00 And then took a little bit of a break and then ended up moving to University of Idaho where I was a n s f l o integrative graduate research.

45:14 Can you show me forget what that sounds I am I going to University of Idaho PhD for environmental science where I got to work on an interdisciplinary team looking at the Palouse landscape and trying to develop conservation strategies there and my area of expertise was on sense of place and why people Value Place and how that overlaps with important conservation resources. And when I was there I met a handsome fella who Moved Costa Rica with for a little bit and then we

45:55 In a roundabout way ended up coming up to hear Alaska for the job.

46:08 She say 40 seconds 40 seconds. That's a lot of pressure.

46:22 Sick and tired of you. I'm out of here. Well, I guess I would wrap up by saying that Audrey you're going to be finding out about 10-years soon. And I think it's important to note that obviously super confident that you are going to be granted tenure because you know, you embody everything that a tenured professor should have in terms of community engagement professional engagement and high quality teaching practices. And I think even though it's not part of the evaluation and I probably shouldn't be the ability to balance your personal needs and life and the needs of your children and spouse and family with a really productive and fruitful work-life should should count for something your family but it says a lot about your character and your ability to to get things done, you know, and they what's that saying if you want something done give it to the busiest person, right?

47:22 So we have a lot of stuff to do but I think we're both getting a lot better. It's saying say no or I guess being a little bit more selective than what we take on well and I had a good model to learn from when I came here. Thanks to my excellent colleague Shannon who taught me everything. I need to know about work-life balance.

47:45 Triton, you know the good news about having a working mom around as if you get hungry you can always find snacks interpretive. I was going to have fruit bar somewhere.

47:53 Okay. Thank you very much. I learned a lot today. Yeah, thank you. I know super fun.

48:07 Thank you. Thank you.