Damon Young and Martin Garcia

Recorded October 29, 2021 Archived October 29, 2021 44:36 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv001223


One Small Step conversation partners Damon Young (45) and Martin Garcia (40) talk about their beliefs about the economy, religion, and local politics.

Subject Log / Time Code

DY and MG talk about their interests in One Small Step and read each others’ bios.
DY on living in Wichita. MG talks about his family, his time in the military and how he finds connection with other veterans within his community.
DY shares his beliefs about the economy and his faith. MG talks about running for city council and the importance he places on solving political issues locally.
DY talks about the term “subvocalizing counterarguments,” which he feels people often do in talking about politics. He talks about labels and how he sometimes feels he’s “defending his label.”
MG talks about how he centers humanity in his political discourse with others. He talks about his faith as a Muslim and being raised in a Catholic family/community.
DY tells a story about a time he was judged for being in a conservative business group when speaking at a conference about poverty.
DY talks about the nuances of his beliefs and the importance of not identifying with politicians who name-call. “I would rather lose by treating people kindly than win by any means necessary.”
MG talks about his passion towards getting people to vote and be involved with politics, regardless of how they choose to vote.


  • Damon Young
  • Martin Garcia

Recording Location

Virtual Recording

Partnership Type




StoryCorps uses Google Cloud Speech-to-Text and Natural Language API to provide machine-generated transcripts. Transcripts have not been checked for accuracy and may contain errors. Learn more about our FAQs through our Help Center or do not hesitate to get in touch with us if you have any questions.

00:00 My name is Damon young and I'm 45 and it's Friday. October 29th. 2021. I'm in Wichita, Kansas. I'm recording with that Martin and our relationship. Is that were one small, step conversation partners?

00:22 Which Highway 114 Garcia? I'm 40 years old. I just turned 40 today. It's Friday, October 29th, 2021. I'm located in north side of Wichita, Kansas, and I'm speaking with Damon my one small step or next day.

00:44 A little bit, but I would love if you could expand on a little bit wet, brought you to this recording space and what made you interested in doing one small step?

00:55 Okay, I'll go first and you before we

01:04 You're starting to start all over again. I'll get nervous because you're recording. The reason I wanted to participate in one small steps. I've been at er, a p r p. I r fan for many many years since 1999, and I just felt that oral history is probably one of the most important means of communicating history that it was one of the first ones that we used to Sima being. So I figured, you know, what better way, you know, then to talk to reach you for myself and really push myself out of my comfort zone and tried to and, you know, just try to start a dialogue based in Civility and maybe he'll be afraid of blueprint for other folks in our community to follow. So that maybe we can start to raise above the din of of of our of partisan politics and really start to get down to it. You know, the meat pie

02:04 Cato's like to get, you know, really get down to the, you know, to the issues that affect us, all get this human being sickly. You know, what is The Human Condition? And what can we do to improve it. That's that's my my solo really is just to push myself out of that comfort zone. Playing simple, though.

02:25 Yeah, I'll Echo that. It's pretty similar. I think I look at it like two sides of the coin. The first part. I just completely agree Martine that I want to push myself outside of my, my rights of thinking, you know, I know that it's easy to get this disease.

02:42 Just kind of simple rats that are just some Loops that the things I think. And so for what I think one part is like personal growth in, and I think the second part I heard you saying and I totally agree with is I want to make a difference, you know, I know that the status quo arguing and not listening isn't really going to work, you know, and I don't that's not a world. I want to hand off to my kids. You know what I thought about, how bad it's gotten. You know, what can I do to improve the, the the acidic environment where we can have good conversations and this is just

03:25 Well, one small step to try to do that.

03:30 So the next thing that I would ask you both to do is if you can just refer to the chat, locate your recording Partners Bayou and just read it aloud and you guys can go, right? One after the other. And then after that, feel free to ask each other questions and things that you're curious about about each other's background.

03:47 I'm starting scrolling with it right now in American Soldier, a l v, f w commander and Muslim. His journey has similar to many others of his generation have to try to find our way in a country. That is also struggling to reinvent itself during a pandemic. As Americans are, we're not looking, we're not a monolithic group of people. We do not all look act and feel the same. I do believe is that as human beings. We are more alike than we care to acknowledge dialog bass. Instability is sorely needed in our society.

04:37 Okay.

04:41 Damon Road, I've been married for 21 years and I have five kids. I am passionate about my face and I have, and I speak to live in integrated life where I apply my values into real action. I'm very passionate about the upward mobility of people and believe in the unique. Dignity of each person. This leads me to be very interested in Community Development and poverty reduction. I was just leave it the Bader and I were thinking about issues from 360u00b0.

05:20 Fall from here.

05:32 Not really. I've lived a lot of places. You know, how I mentioned in there that I have become really fascinated with poverty and poverty reduction. And when I was doing that, a lot of that research, I started paying attention to how many houses I lived in and between the age of 22 years and younger. I lived in 19, different houses. Many of them all over North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or she can stay and all over. So, but I have been here for 21 years and I group, I spent middle school and most of high school here. So I consider Wichita home for sure. Didn't you think you move back most of the thing that I've heard the most from a lot of folks that you return here and they want to raise their family here and they feel that it's a great place to raise kids. Was that your rash?

06:32 Now we came back or was it more work baster, come back and it was, it was home to me. And my wife had family here. We were living, she she had moved from the east coast and I was out in Washington state and it just seemed like the it's what he said. It was just like, that's in the middle and we can raise our family there and it's a good space.

06:54 So definitely. And then I use your said the first generation American tell me more about that. Like, where where is your family from? And then our word. Where were you raised a blended family? So to speak. And what that means is my father came here, actually States from Mexico from Hawley School in 1977, and maybe 78 not mistaken. My poor father didn't know where the height of the BTK kind of scaring the bejesus out of everybody here. So you don't my fathers having people translate, you know, crazy news broadcast and thinks that's kind of the way that my mother and and him met at my mother was actually first generation American kids who like myself hurt her mother.

07:54 Mexico. So at she live here, the majority of her life and they met at a park here in Wichita. And my mom was one of the only people that can speak Spanish that was around them. So it really helped my dad. How do you know they got to talking about some the craziness going on around here, but then found out, you know, they had more things alike than unalike like to talk about 4 and just a shared family for sure, great spirit within family, just

08:24 Yeah, but I bet they basically. I mean, it was just that in a typical, you know, you do a Mexican-American family. Just trying to make the American dream happened. You don't have the two cars in the house, you know, nuclear family that whole bit and and yeah, let me know if my life outside of the time I spent to the military family. I miss my family with my nieces and nephews and Scott and family just know he's been a big part of it and in the majority of my family immigrated here from Mexico, on my dad's side, in majority of my mother's family is still located here in Wichita, and I was kind of a no-brainer for me to come back home after I was done with my time. And then, how long was, how long did you start?

09:10 I was active duty for six and a half years in the United States Army and I did another almost four short of four years and Army Reserve Reserve to your bounce around a different units here, cancer. So started to Fort Riley, and then ended up at the 450 first year here in Wichita, and then finish out my

09:35 Thanks for serving. Of course, it's a refrain and my peers and I hear a lot of those was in the military and smooth, you know, kind of brace Aladdin a little bit, but I am not going to do that on me. I are so grateful that people are.

09:53 Grateful to add it to my generation for the time different, you do for our time in service, as opposed to many of my Vietnam cohorts, that I meet along the way cuz I still feel that.

10:05 Those gentlemen, still, you know, suffer from some of the

10:09 You know, just from, you know, just remove some of the negative attitudes in the negative perceptions that they had to endure about their Titan shirt. My

10:23 My father was a Vietnam veteran and he was in the Army. I had two tours in Vietnam and he was at infantry captain and he was in the thick of it and unpacking, you know, he is hard. It's a hard thing for him to talk about, but the little bit we have talked about the common experience of that scum back. Obviously, there's some negative experiences there and he's proud of his service, you know, he still has his license plate. That's the, you know, he has the Purple Heart, two purple hearts, and he still has his license plate and he's praised proud of it, and I want to be proud of it for him. You know, I'm so

11:10 The VFW you still? Are you still active in that and then you get interactive lot older, veterans like that. I just passed drop to another gentleman state was a lot of work. I mean it was it was unpaid internship in a small business. It was a little bit more than I really do get to make those connections with the different errors are better and some even have won World War 2 veteran. Then I go around that survived Pearl Harbor. Kenny. Yeah. He's a heck of a guy. He said, if you have friends that she doesn't like Bud, like, you only drink Budweiser, but do we have a lot of the Vietnam, guys have been great with me in there as well. Cibo in

12:04 Speaking isn't really like to elaborate too much of my time in service and a true connection of camaraderie with the Vietnam guys, especially the ones that

12:22 You know that were in combat and into action and order some hardships while they were out there and I need off of and I found that it's easier. For these gentlemen. All do we have often have Divergent points if you for sure and some of them are

12:42 Forgive me for saying it cuz it might be the labeling people too much ice, put a label on people, but it may be neoconservative. You know, they're not know, the grand old party. They're kind of went beyond that, you know, twerk. They've gone beyond listening to reason, but I think one of the few things that allowed me have some currency within, which is my love of country that might buy my email. And it just the fact that I'm willing you.

13:07 I'm willing to be objective in an actively listen to them when they speak. I'm not I guess some folks, almost appeared to be waiting to report. You know what you do and that's a bad habit that I've had. I had to learn to act as well. But a lot of these old fellows. I think just wants somebody to listen to him and hear him out. And that's where I try to use Regional watch it, you know, the color to kind of get past our differences in Vienna VFW Commander has helped me grow. Exponentially. I really do believe that because you did push down my comfort zone and got me wrong in that I wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't

13:46 Oh, I wouldn't talk to him on a daily basis. So I wouldn't run into this with, in my shirt and circle. So so, yeah, it's a new storycorps as well to you and, and really try to find something outside of the veteran Community, you know, because that's kind of my my safe space to sort of speaking of, we just went to a couple old grizzled veteran, find out, you know, that we share that in common if you know some of those barriers all the way, you know it.

14:23 I think this is a good time for something that I wanted to ask you both, which is if you can kind of describe. What are your political views? If you have Blake pretend you're in an elevator with someone and they just asked me to but it's a safe space. You can explain, you know, kind of what your beliefs are.

14:42 I went on chatner too much. There you go ahead and I'll let you go for his brother.

14:48 Yes, I think.

14:52 Yeah that it's that's what that's why I'm so excited to do this cuz you did. So all I have is like caricatures in label as you know, sometimes I feel like and so I'll do my best. I'm definitely a free-market conservative, I think economically.

15:12 I believe that.

15:14 You know, Daddy like entrepreneurs will change the world. Like I believe that the small things are easier to manage than big things. And so I'm I'm I'm I'm I consider myself conservative for that reason because I believe that it if you if you threw a problem out there to me in society. I would probably have the position that eight out of 10 of those problems should be tackled locally and that we got to be really careful about what things we managed.

15:52 From the federal perspective. And so I think that's how I consider myself a conservative. Is that I'm going to show you one time. I remember when my kids ask me and this is this is a clue that it was going bad. This is why don't you like Barack Obama. And I said, I'm sorry, but I don't just like Barack Obama. Did we just disagree? I said if you said a problem, I think he would argue that a federal solution. Might be to answer more often. And I said, it's that simple. I think he's a great guy. I think he loves his country. I think he's, I'm thankful that you serving. He's clearly intelligent. Like we just disagree about that, you know, so that's my most basic. I think political belief is that problems are generally better, stop locally from there. It gets real messy because you throwing their my Christian faith, and I think I've split from

16:51 I think I would say, I don't agree that.

16:58 Real it. I don't agree that religion that the movement that Republican party did from my, my put Equestria like with George Bush. The younger emerging religious arguments, and political arguments to say, like, whether it be abortion or a marriage or pick the controversial topic. To say, if you're with us about free market economic. She better be with us about this and not that, that started to really get hard for me, cuz I think social issues to very nuanced. And I've been to have a lot of Grace for people. And I don't think, I, I don't pretend to know how to have all the right answers are right for everyone.

17:42 So, that's me. I, I think, I could say economically conservative socially liberal would be another way to me. I can agree with you wholeheartedly gaming when it, when it comes to an open free market. I just don't believe in unfettered capitalism if that makes sense. Now, and what I mean by daddy said, I think we're due a trustbuster, like Teddy. Roosevelt would have come in here and kind of clean things up a little bit and take a corporation to be coming, will be optimistic about another grape cans and, you know, it's kind of kicking her butt but his Farewell Address when he left office. It was something that I think should be required listening and maybe even reading I just going through

18:42 The transfer for sale for every American but I, I would say that. I'm also socially liberal to a degree. I do think that I don't want to sound crass, but I think we've gone too far to the left and too far to the right politically in our country and we have no scent anymore. And I have find that. It's usually usually the more polarizing candidates are individuals that are getting a lot of the airplane today and I'll be really just trying to be more of a Centrist. Why I wanted to be in a seat of his nonpartisan where I could be at Central Park woman like you should really get back to the issues that we can handle local. And I really do think that for us to have a cultural shift is a country that happens within your own community.

19:42 At home. And it really, I mean, any, any of them. I don't care if it's a critical race Theory, or, or abortion, a lot of these, a lot of, a lot of our ways of thinking, come from home at the beginning of the day or wait, or ways of thought, you don't come for my parents. And, and they can, they come from our, our general background, but I find that people insulated themselves to the point to where they're not doing what we're doing right now. That's pushing ourselves out, of that, out of that safe spacers, because the use now, and

20:23 And really just extending themselves into in a

20:27 In a way that makes me that maybe can feel uncomfortable. But but, but may allow them to commit to a dialogue that will hopefully open your mind up a little bit and leave them into a baby and maybe lead them to start to speak to other people with a more open mind. I know that was a little convoluted there, but when I run for office again and I will get another four years. I want to run for city council to cancel again because it's a nonpartisan seat. And it's about Brayden butter issues and about, you know, infrastructure, you know, it's about making sure that our schools are being run properly and making sure that you too brat. We have proper jobs creation, Freddy, new Industries. You have these are things that affect us all. So I really as much as I love to harp on certain social issues. I find that we need to start this bread and butter bread and butter issues first because we're going to find that we have more in common.

21:27 We're going to be more like we are unalike, you know, at the end of the day because she believes things affect us all when it was. So so really is. I'm trying to find somebody that can understand that perspective and help me expand on that. So that we can start three people within our own separate camps in the start to nudge them, out of their little safe space.

21:48 But but but all in all the time and I would say that I'm kind of a mishmash of things. Like I'm you know, I'm pro-second Amendment, you have some conservative leanings, you know, but by the same token, you know, I do believe that critical race Theory should be probably taught in school, but I think it's a lot bigger of a conversation to have in a wrap was not something that we need to impose upon that the school districts or upon it and upon teachers. You know, it's something that is a new watch conversation. Like you said that we're going to have to take her time and find out how you know, we can

22:27 How we can bring the kind of curriculum in the school to, to open up people's minds, a little bit more, and let them see past their own, and she passed her own. Just really, just keep a strong points in a few personal point of view. Sheena, push them push them out of there a little bit and get them to open up your mind a little bit more. So sorry. My mind racing. I just it's just it's just a lot of these issues of political. I've really tried to stray away from it just because I find that it

23:01 It needs is rudderless in a conversation Sometimes. Some people really just get bogged down by, like you said, they get bogged down by the issues. I think they didn't bog down to you mentioned earlier about not listening and think about what you're going to stay in my rhetoric and debate days. There's an official term for that and it's called subvocalizing counter-arguments. So you're thinking about your counter argument in your constructing that in your mind, as opposed to look like you're trying to listening, but you're mainly building out your argument.

23:36 Right, and I think our, I think it feels like our our culture does that, I do it, but it

23:48 I was curious about.

23:52 I was thinking about labels like,

23:57 You know, when you were talking about the free market stuff and like corporate cronyism and stuff like that, I which obviously, I agree with.

24:07 You know, like based on.

24:10 Based on.

24:13 This is what it feels like. Okay, I don't know if this is true or not. So just my feeling. It feels like sometimes as the label that I could wear of a business person, a white person, a member of like different business organizations. Went, when I go to engage with a group or something. I feel like they see those labels and I feel like it's hard.

24:47 Talk, you know, like you said, you did into the issue and you want to talk about the nuts and bolts of the issue, but I feel like I find myself like, defending my label or doing no, not really like that. Like, I'm one of those, you know, and, and then it's like, I feel like when I interact with people that I noticed, other people doing that too, is that? So it's just kind of jockeying of like,

25:14 I'm trying to not be defined by our label or a perceived label. I don't even I don't even know if people really think that about me but I think they think it it made me think about like how do you feel about that? Like, what does that resonate with you? In like what labels do you? Do? You feel like your people see when they see you starting to talk and that you have to navigate.

25:45 You know why? I think I catch a lot of people off guard because they don't know how to label me. A lot of times. For instance. I am very fair complected for a Mexican person and a lot of times if I voice my opinion about Cyprus is like a immigration reform, in a lot of people like, well, why do you have such a vested interest in it? And the first thing that people will say, was all I could do that. Oh, you're like only half Mexican aren't you was like she would only have him. He's supposed to be offended, you know about how you're treating Folks at the border right now. So if you know it out and I'll try to bring the conversation back around so, you know, it's The Human Condition man, how would you feel about having your family locked up in cages? That way? I was like, you know, some of that. And I see I saw it. Really? What it boils down to is that

26:39 I don't try to label myself and I never have because I felt like, I live in a country where you can be, whoever the heck you want to be in. And that's the right, that a lot of other people don't have any. And I feel fortunate for that because you know, other place, do I think you could be a Mexican that practices Islam? I certainly couldn't have done that in Mexico. I mean, I I I would have I would have been cashed out. I meet some of my family already.

27:05 Already kind of treats me. I mean I have that Scarlet Letter on me. So to speak. I mean like a better way saying it just

27:14 Should I come from a very traditional catholic family? And in Catholic is one of those labels that you would definitely put on, you know, Hispanic Latino people in general, in the most people would assume that you're at. And what a lot of people find out that I'm not, but I have to cut explain to them though that a lot of the principles in a lot of the ideas that came from Catholicism and Christianity. Overlapping to Islam. And really, I mean, Sprite made Islam a good fit for me, but I would say that a lot of times I try to do as an individual. I try not to label myself, but I do feel that after people get to know me. And I tell them like, for instance, like, I am very reticent to tell people, I don't want to be labeled as a Muslim guy and the soldiers that I served with him as well. And in the beginning, when I was stationed at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, but I found out, they had already accepted me as one of their own, with trained together to eat together, sleep together like puppies.

28:14 You do realize that their way, there was really no different than your standard the day, you know, they just just trying to make it through the day and just trying to take care of her family's and and you don't move forward in life, you know, if you would be. So yeah. I am not big on labels either. I got to try to

28:41 I d, i be fibbing. I'll be I'll be disingenuous. If, if I didn't say I don't I don't label people sometimes because I do I really do and and especially when it comes to conservatism these days, you know, sometimes I really will make a snap judgment. And instead of really getting to know the individual and I've often found that after the fact that they like sitting down to individual getting to know them that I was wrong. You know, that I should have took my time to get to know them a little bit better. And not based my opinion of that individual on one issue in our I really need to I need to look at them as a whole, you know, find out who we are as a whole human being.

29:30 I want one of them. I was people knew me through a leadership thing. I was involved in. And I went was talking about poverty reduction and lift people out of poverty, and second chance culture. And like not, you know, giving people Second Chance in the workforce and they asked me to come speak to some Community forum. And I had a, I had a pin on my coat, you know, like a lapel pin and it was it was for a Conservative Business group. And before I went to this community to go on this platform to speak this community college person said, hey, I took that you're a part of that group out of your bio and you might want to take that and I was like and and and I appreciated that they wanted to

30:29 They were trying to not hurt my credibility, like they appreciate it. I knew it that they were trying to help me, but it felt like I wasn't valued and I was being judged like and I didn't it, if it made me feel uncomfortable and I tried to just see where the person is coming from and just go. Oh, they're trying to there, trying to help me, but still kind of hurt. And I don't know what to think of that.

31:00 Do you ever get pushback from folks if you don't turn in your own party, so to speak I mean within and forgive me if I be presumptuous, but I like more of a old school bike. He kind of Republican. You know, that you're a very

31:19 But it would have. You feel like you felt some pushback you because your some of your more open-minded points of views from from folks on your side of the aisle or just be a primary challenge for me is

31:38 The, within my own party is,

31:45 The spokesman, you know, that the way that the the Republican party has

31:51 Kind of jumped on with.

31:54 I'll just use this word, you know, someone who has a a bully mentality, is something that I find as a conservative and as a Christian, I call foul. It's like if I'm going balls and Strikes in like Val, like no, we don't bully people. We don't call people names. I don't care what your belief is on, fill in the blank. Like you're not going to be my spokesperson. I'm and I really struggle with that and I and I haven't been able to identify with the Republican Party nationally in that way because it just doesn't. It is not the issues. People would say. Like you probably agree with them about 90% of the issues taxes and fill in the blank, you know, and I'm like, yeah, that's probably true. But the way my parents raised me like

32:47 Just know, I'm not going to, it's not okay to treat people that way and to call people names and and the ends never justify the means. And if if I would rather, I would rather lose by being by being trained people kindly and then when at, by any means necessary and that that's really hard and I feel like I can't even get to the issues anymore with around parties sometimes because

33:14 There's a wave of people that supporting that kind of like almost like warlike language and and I and I'm just like, we're not at War, you know, like this is. I think I'm becoming a civil libertarian. I believe strongly that I have certain exactly really strongly about. And I don't know who said it or what that, like.

33:46 Like I would die for your right to be wrong like that. I like I would I want to live in a world where

33:56 I can hold my beliefs strongly but one of my main beliefs is American is that everyone gets a seat at the table and the debt. And I mean, I know the Democrats have taken on that same or like language often and and it but it it just it sucks to feel like you're either with us or against us, I guess is what I'm staying in that field. So dangerous to me.

34:23 Politics politics now. Definitely does have a very take it or leave it patina to it now. And you know where you're either, you're like, you said, you're either with us or you're against it and like you said there's so much that its newest conversations in. These are conversations that need to be had.

34:44 Multiple times, you know this the dollar that we have to commit to the first I'd really truly believe it locally and then bill from there.

34:55 I would I mean what are the big challenges? And I found within our community Wichita as a whole is just the lack of Engagement in local elections. If I'm not mistaken in disagree, the south side of Wichita only.

35:12 4% of the registered voters came out to vote. It was so it was pathetic. But we ask you is I mean, since we're kind of coming, you know, I really do believe that you and I damn, you're coming from the same place really in in, in our ideals and what we want for a country, what we want for others in general? He knows, but everybody has a fair Shake. Everybody has everybody's opinions. Can be her equally but how do we shake people out of apathy, you know how and it sucks cuz that's really where I'm at cuz I'm stuck. You know, I I don't know where else to go am now caught a knock on doors or talk to individuals not Spring Creek in the boat. And I don't care who you vote. For the end of the day. At this point. I just want you to know, I just want you to participate in the motivations behind them. Whatever you may say.

36:12 At the end of the day, they are, there have been men and women who have laid down their lives for the rights of people have in this country. And I really feel let folks need to need to to stand up and in the in really late and see where our country is at. So to speak in that in, that means folks coming out of voting and seeing if you have that cultural shift here in a country cuz there's no real way to know. And right now I do feel like there.

36:39 I feel like everything so polarized, now that people just stick to their little Camp, you know, they ended and they're not budging, you know, they're staying in that corner. But I mean, what I mean, what would you say to me is like if we're to go out tomorrow and maybe try to register some voters. I mean, how do you think we can shake some of these young younger kids out of apathy and get them to The Ballot Box and get them to start.

37:04 I thought a lot about that, and I wonder about.

37:13 Honestly, I wonder how much of it has to do with the way we Market campaigns, you know, like.

37:21 I know when I get my check, my daughter registered, as a Democrat, and I started getting all the Democrat Miller's and then the Republican mailers and they're both just so nasty and that's why is a young person. Like, why would I want to participate in this? Like they're disingenuous and and I felt on some campaigns over the years and it seems like the people who help with those mailers and stuff. They're always like if you and I were running into each other, you know, they find a picture of me like you picking my nose, you know, what bad lighting and you know, like why can't you people commit the rent office. I'm never going to talk bad about my phone, it personally and and I'm going to bed. I don't know how to do that. You know, it seems like such a big issue.

38:11 And I think it'll take, like people can. That's one reason. I like capitalism is like people can vote with their dollars. Like if someone doesn't like something, they know I just don't shop there. You know, it's like it's like when people stop shopping there, you know, whatever that means, political you like. And that's in some ways that turnout is a reflection of that. I think like you're gorgeous. And I would, I want to shop there. I don't know if they don't want to buy what you said, but you're but you're still at me, but you should hang out in Central and I think she'll was probably the proper word for I can. Honestly say, though.

38:52 Are you ever the past 20 years of being a voter? And, and, you know, just trying to participate in and take part in an old local and federal state elections. No one's really. Truly inspired me to really want to stand up and vote me. A lot of times. It's more of a

39:12 In obstructive vote, if that, if that makes sense to, you know, some type of playing the same game as they're playing on Capitol Hill Field. We're just trying to obstruct the other team from getting the ball. So to speak and running with it again, and that's going to leave its Rider released. The country did almost as, I mean, we're, we're, we're so,

39:33 I mean, I almost feel like the two parties that are like two bickering parents that are newly separated, you know, they're trying to find the best way to raise the family and then you know, we we need to, we need a, a president or not even a present. We just need elected officials that want to be public servants. Now, not politicians. That's just my personal opinion too. Often that we made it too easy for politicians to become career politicians now and they need to we need to try to and I think local, you'll be the easiest way to start and trying to make our public servants more accountable and end in really changed the

40:16 Your change, the change, the culture that's out there right now and it cuz I think a lot of times.

40:24 Nowadays, people like you said, you're more prone to use that warlike language, you know, they're more prone to it, too.

40:32 Kadena, great the people across the aisle instead of finding out that. Oh, wow, you know, maybe we agree on 8 out of 10 issues out there, but I'm going to focus on these two hot-button issues like a critical race Theory. I'm going to let it blow everything out of the water and you know, just, you know, just for the sake of my party next ridiculous.

40:52 Yeah, I just I find an unproductive and it just hurts is all this idea that the answer is it just not argue or is it to all agree, you know. And he argues like know if learn how to disagree better and you know, I think that

41:17 I want to when it comes to fill in the blank issue, you know, someone who has vigorously disagrees with me. I really am. And I think most people are good with like talking about those differences in Civic, like in our Civic life. We don't have forms to do that. It didn't done in the political life, with people who are elected. Another kind of forced to do that, but they have to, you know, like what weather be like the nondiscrimination ordinance or whatever. It is locally like they have to get back in the room and I have to talk and try to figure out the best compromises and I think I put the key to good policy. Hopefully isn't a green. It's

42:03 Being passionate and in being and I respect people who want to be passionate about what they believe, but then it's like, well now that it's moved from Civic life, to political life. You have to compromise, like, you just have to like there's no, that's not how you're going to get something that the majority is going to vote for, on your Council or commission, or whatever it is. And

42:30 So I don't know, maybe increasing the spaces where people can have Civic or Civic life, you know, a person political I cuz and I think that the politics of come in and the campaigns are just so political and dehumanizing, that I think it's easy to be like, whatever. I know, I feel that way sometimes.

42:51 Yeah, I'll take a couple more minutes. If you guys have anything, you want to close out or ask each other each other, and I'll turn the recording off when you're ready, station that we probably need to continue to have it a little later date here in town. I mean, honestly, I think it's something that that would benefit exposed and it takes

43:25 Individuals like us to Toledo way for some people. I mean, a lot of folks got help him. A lot of people don't like to get out and do something on their own, you know, they need someone to kind of nuts that little kick to go out there and perhaps we could be a couple of individuals so I can help him do that. Cuz that is certainly within this current city council rate between Chilean cueca, Maggie Valley, enough notice that. There's a lot of that nastiness that were talking about going back and forth there and what gets lost there are actually she's a substance that affect the song. So I really think it just went to take.

44:08 Individuals like us. Like you said in that indoor spaces to start kind of unraveling this her or maybe just fine, you know, wield that sword to cut the gordian knot in half, you know, we got to find a way through this style. So no way out.