Dan Swassing and Curtis Bustamante

[00:00] DAN SWASSING: And you're gonna kick us off.

[00:03] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Dan Swassing, age 64. Today's date is June 28, 2023. This is the CMAQ building. I believe my partner's name is Curtis. He's my one small step partner.

[00:26] DAN SWASSING: All right. And my name is Curtis Bustamante I am 45 years old. Today's date is June 28, 2023. Fresno, California, at the CMAQ building. And the relationship is a one small step partner.

[00:42] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Okay. Curtis B. I'm born and raised in Fresno, California, and was raised in a non political home. I developed a sense of politics in high school, favoring the democratic party. As I matured, I grew in my profession. I began learning more conservative and changed my party affiliation in my thirties. I am a father, professional, and am open minded politically. I'm willing to listen if I'm allowed this same courtesy.

[01:28] DAN SWASSING: Dan S. I am 64 year old caucasian married man. I have a son, 41 years old, and a daughter, 38 years old. Three grandsons and one granddaughter. I grew up in Hanford, California. I have strong feelings about police violence and civil rights. I can understand both sides of black lives matters, police issues. But I would like to learn more. I don't wish to argue with anyone. I would like to learn.

[01:53] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Thank you. Okay, well, I don't know what profession you are. I am in the agricultural type of work. When I filled out my thing, I had just gotten into a little problem with a police officer that I had. My son in law had borrowed my tractor and he wouldn't return it. And there was some problems there that he felt that he didn't have to return it because I had bought a truck from him. And he felt that that was a down payment or something, rather. And then they started giving me a whole bunch of problems, and I got mad and came over angrily to my daughter and son in law's house. They called the police, and the police came out and were very hostile to me since I was on their property, and I was the one that was kind of irate at the time. I believe they acted very unprofessionally and they didn't hurt me. It was the old bit about cuffing me up and sticking me into the backseat of a car with tight handcuffs on. And then they'd go talk to the son in law and my daughter, and then they'd come back out and interrogate me pretty hard and not believing anything that I was saying or whatever, not seeing it my way, putting me back in. And they had both the police radio on and the radio that was the. Just some news station or something like that on. And it was at an extremely loud sound. And every time I was put back in the back of the police car, they were just blowing my brains out with this noise with, you know, I was being overwhelmed. Now I'm. I consider myself dyslexic. My wife is a spatial ed teacher, and she says, dan, you're autistic. And I tell her, no, nobody's ever told me that I'm autistic. She says, yeah, you are. They just never caught it because, see, it is a autism. It can be slight or it can be excessive or whatever, and I can become overwhelmed by too much chaos and confusion and things like that. And then they would pull me out and do the good cop bad cop thing and get me stirred up and stick me back in. And then I'd tell them, the cuffs are too tight. The cuffs are too tight. And they would say, no, they're nothing, you know? And eventually they sent me down to an observation in this observation room thing to see if I was okay. And the whole thing was just a silly thing about detractor. And I felt that they were abusing me. And I spend about a month telling everybody, oh, these cops are just so out flying. And now this has been a year or so since that happened, and I kind of am understanding where they're coming from and how that happened. Now, I'm hearing a lot on the news about people getting shot by cops and people getting killed by police or beat up or all these things. And this I can understand that they're scared. It's something that. That I really can understand. And I understand that accidents happen as well. And as many places there are in the United States and as many interactions as there are, I can understand that even if, you know, 0.1% of all the interactions end up badly, you'll be having one every day or every two days or something like that. That looks awful. So I'm on my way out here today. I pulled over by the side of the road to see where I was going. I went into Mapquest, this place, and then I pulled back out on the freeway, and there was this cop coming up right behind me, and I was, oh, no, here we go again. And he just went on, well, thank you for sharing.

[08:13] DAN SWASSING: I appreciate that. I have a similar take on the opposite end. So my profession is human resources, so my job is to take employee relations and look at it from an aerial view. A lot of times, I get the. The first concern or complaint directly from the employee, and it's very dramatic, sympathetic whether it's sexual harassment or abuse, bullying, favoritism, discrimination, you know, you name it, I deal with it. And I did have one particular instance where the law enforcement was not present, but I did have an active shooter in my office. He didn't shoot, but he did draw his gun weapon, and I had to take that away. So fortunately, it ended well. But when things happen that quickly, you definitely appreciate the nature of the police officers, whether it's through fear or training or, you know, just sheer reaction. So I definitely have learned to see both sides of the coin when it comes to, you know, whether it's police violence or reactions or whatnot. The other thing that I do want to address is, I think you hit it right on the head. There's zero 1% of terrible acts that occur by the police when you look at the big picture of how much actually occurs. The other thing that concerns me, and I don't know if you share the same concern, but what concerns me is the perceptions that I get from it. What's portrayed in the media are, you know, very obvious, at least in my opinion. The things that are portrayed when it comes to police brutality is there's a minority involved, oftentimes african american, and that it was done with force and without consideration. And it's not until weeks later when you actually see the other side of the coin with the body cam footage or the vocal recordings or the other witnesses that come forward or even the trial two or three years later. And then you start to see the whole thing come together and say, well, maybe there was some justification, but they've already been found guilty by the public court of opinion based on what's been presented on the tv. So I think that's an unfortunate thing, because even though it is zero 1%, it represents a large majority of the perception of the forces. And what concerns me is whether the police behave one way or the other, crime is always going to occur to. So we have to be very careful how far we take our response to that zero 1%. Because, you know, we have to understand the law enforcement is still a career. It's voluntary and it's unionized. If they ever decide to go on strike and say, you know, not worth it, we're not appreciated, you know, we're out, you know, we got a bad situation. So I would just give that consideration, you know, notwithstanding your experience, because, you know, I think if it's found that they did act aggressively or, you know, out of character, they should be held accountable. That's up to the. The chief and the. The courts, you know, if you decide to take that action. But that's why we have due process. So.

[11:35] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Yeah, the. The situation that I had was that my son in law was using the police to. In his own favor. And the whole thing was that he was intentionally making me mad. And of course, I was coming over to get my tractor and he knew it.

[12:00] DAN SWASSING: Yeah, he knew how to push your.

[12:01] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Buttons, and he knew how to. Yeah, he knew how to push my buttons, and he knew how to make things look bad. He had taken the lock off of his gate, and apparently he had told the police that I had found the key, that he had hidden the key, and that I had found it. Well, that wasn't true. He had taken the lock off and had left the gate open, and, well, the gate was open, so, you know, so there was a matter of. Well, he said this, that you took, that you found the key and got in, you know, and then. No, it wasn't. Well, then my daughter was lying for her husband, you know, and I can understand why she would do that, you know, and so that's. I see the black lives matter people, and they're out protesting and somebody gets shot, and invariably it's a black or brown person, and then it's, you know, black lives matter and all this stuff. And I. People have been getting shot by the police since the beginning of time, and sometimes it's unjustifiable and there will be these big protests, and sometimes property will be damaged and people will get hurt or whatever. And I really do feel for the black man because they are. They get the police called on them, they get searched, you know, they are.

[14:10] DAN SWASSING: Why do you think that is?

[14:13] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Well, white people call and say there's a suspicious man in our neighborhood.

[14:23] DAN SWASSING: Why do you think they think it's suspicious? Where do they learn that?

[14:28] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: We do learn that from our parents, from our people. It is the way that it is. You know, in our society, we see a black person and it's immediately, uh oh, a suspicious person. I hope he doesn't have a gun, you know, and.

[14:59] DAN SWASSING: I have a consideration for that. Like, going back to my first point with the police violence, you know, if you look at the statistics on violent crimes and robberies, the things that are statistically reported through criminal data, blacks are number three in crime data. Whites and Hispanic account for the, at least in California, the majority of crimes. Where we learn this notion of racism against the black individuals is when you turn on the news and you see a smash and grab, who do you see? When you see a shooting. Who do you see? When you see a criminal or a gangster? Who do you see? What's being reported is creating this learned behavior that make us fear and have that bias and that discrimination. So the big thing, when we look at the big picture of this, you know, this division of black Lives Matter versus all lives matter, you know, and we can even go into the history of it, you know, blacks were slaves, and there's a push for reparations, and, you know, what they're owed. But we're not having a conversation about the almost hundred years that the Chinese were slaves. We're not having a conversation about the Irish. We're not having conversations about the Native Americans or the japanese internment campsite. So why are we having a conversation for the shortest period of history when it was a worldwide issue? Slavery did not begin in America. It was the most pronounced, but it did not begin here. We were far behind when we started bringing slaves in, and we were one of the first ones to actually end it in modern day slave nations. So I don't think there's enough credit or credence to the evolution of our country in 200 short years to come where we are to have the right to vote, to have the laws that are in place, the title ix, the civil rights, you know, even the freedom to have this woke movement, whether it's right or wrong or we agree or disagree, we have that freedom. But the fact that Japanese never rioted or asked for this or that or all they asked for was an apology, and they wrote a formal letter, and Barack Obama gave it to them. You know, when you look at the Armenians, they still have not had formal recognition for their genocide. You know, if, you know, they decide that it happened or not, you look at the Native Americans, they got their tribal land, their casinos, but at what cost? They're 1% of the population. The Irish will never ask for any type of recognition for their slavery because they're white. And they know that if they do, that is going to go right back 50 years. So it's things like that where I just wish there was some sort of recognition or understanding that it's not just them and they've been singled out unfairly, but it's not just them. And until we have fairness and representation by the media and not just the news, but in film and movies and music, and when the cultures, not just the black culture, but when you look at hispanic and even white culture, when the cultures start behaving with dignity and respect and have good role models, that's when we can start looking at it from an objective perspective, because when all we see on tv are smash and grabs and drugs and violence and gangsta rap and whatnot, disrespect towards women, that does not do any favors to the cause. It makes the performers rich because people follow that because it's cool, but it doesn't do any favors to the perception.

[18:49] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now, a lot of these petty crimes are the smaller smashing grabs or whatever it is. And stealing cars and such are done by poor people and by people who don't have any future, people who have, don't really have anything to particularly live for. And the homeless community down in the South Valley, we've got a lot of homeless people, and they're not going to get a job. Okay? They don't have a place to take a shower. They don't have a phone, or some of them do have phones, but they are not going to get a. Any kind of job and get out of their position. They are. So they know that there's no. They have no future and they do drugs, and most of them are pretty addicted to it. And they really don't care if they steal a car, if they commit a petty crime, or they get put in jail, because they just, they don't have any way out. And the black community, and we don't really have really a huge black lives matter. We do have some black lives matter down in the south Valley, but our homeless community, a large percent of them are black and brown people. And they are just. They're just desperately poor. And when they are given money, when they get their welfare check or whatever, they don't have any way of hanging on to it. Either. They get their money stolen from them or whatever. Often they don't trust banks. And I don't blame them because they don't have, they don't know if they're going to be living there or if they're going to be in jail or if they're going to be somewhere else. So why are they going to put their, you know, and there have been some times where I've hired homeless people that have signs that say, I'll work for money or whatever, and I've hired them to do some work on my property, driving tractors and doing, harvesting or whatever it is that they. And they're so unwell that they really can't last a whole day. Now, the Mexicans from Mexico that come over to work, they hold up the whole day. They do have a house. Most of them do have places to sleep. There might be 20 in one house or whatever, but they. They are able to show up on time with their heads straight and work all day, and they really work very hard. They have a hard working ethic. Work ethic. And it's sad about the homeless community just not being able. I mean, they. I mean, it's obvious when I hire one of them to help me, they just can't. They can't last two or 3 hours without having to go get drugs or something, you know?

[23:01] DAN SWASSING: Yeah, I don't have a response for that because everyone is different. You know, when you look at the homeless, they do have resources, whether it's the rescue mission or the Pavarella house or, you know, they're. And I've volunteered and I've been on the board at those organizations, and they. It's really frustrating as a member of those organizations that you put a lot of resources out there to help them and they walk away. You know, we can't mandate that you participate in a program in order to get your free food. They just come and get their free food because that's what it's there for. Feed them. But when they come up to get their plate and say, do you want a place to stay? Do you want to shower? Do you want some help finding employment? You know, do you want a counselor? And they say, no, I just want my food. And they go right back to their tent. So a lot of it is a choice. It becomes a lifestyle. And to your point, with the work, I don't know what demographics, you know, age or gender or whatnot that you're recruiting to work for you, but I see it with people that are employable, people that are living with their parents. You know, they come into work, we hire them, we do labor, and the same thing. They just do not want to work, and they don't have to. And it's even more evident when Covid struck. We gave so much money to them to stay home, and now they're save that benefit and they don't have to work. They work for three months, and then they call it quits. Cause they've saved up enough and they're back at home and they live off the state. So it's. There's no easy fix for the homeless situation. And the only thing that I would suggest is if there was, instead of a check, if there was allocations, this card can only be used for food. This card can only be used for transportation. You know, give them a fax pass, you know, this card can be used at select hotels for showers, for 30 minutes. You know, like for writing things that will be useful and help them with their life, not something they can get cash and go buy a needle, you know? Yeah, that's, that's a frustrating thing, is we're enabling them to live the life they want to live.

[25:14] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with you there.

[25:27] DAN SWASSING: So going back to, you know, the questions if, to learn more about you, what, who's been the most influential person that has shaped your opinions about what we've been discussing, like, who's been your mentor or who shaped your philosophy?

[25:51] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now, at the age of 60, I went back to junior college and I took a sociology class, and the sociology teacher was very liberal. And I can't say that I really agreed with everything that she said. She clearly was trying to make her students think, and she really did. And I would think that my sociology teacher really woke me up to a new way of thinking when I used to hang around with the church group and they were very conservative. And I started to get really tired of hearing the real conservative point of view, basically dredge, dredge, dredge the real conservative belief. And I started listening to a little bit more liberal point of view.

[27:43] DAN SWASSING: So I find it interesting that because I switched the opposite way, I was liberal and then I went conservative. And the reason that I switched was everything that I had heard of previously on the liberal side was now being said on the conservative side when it came to immigration, when it came to abortion, when it came to, you know, civil rights. And so that was a consistent message. But now the liberals were fighting those messages saying, no, that's no longer the case. And so when I tie that in with, you know, religious beliefs, the fact that I can't or the thought that I can't get past yet is for centuries and centuries, whether you believe in Christ or Smith or Buddha or whoever, those have been the practices for centuries and centuries with mild deviations. And now because of popular opinion, that's no longer okay. And so people still claim to be religious and have religious values, but I think they're confusing their religion with love, because no matter what your religion, you can always have love. You can always demonstrate love. You can always be caring. But if you believe in religious values, whether it's christian or catholic or Mormon or, you know, buddhist or whatever, you know, those don't change on a dime. If you believe in God and he says certain things, he doesn't change his mind. And so that's where I have a hard time accepting some of these moldings of politics and faith, because we are shaping a new form of faith based on what is convenient for the constituents, and people are being influenced to change their beliefs. So, you know, one example is gay rights. I believe people should be free to choose to marry who they want, to be with who they want. Love is love. That's love. But historically, if you look at the majority of religions, the purpose of sexual interactions is to procreate, and homosexuality does not allow for procreation. Now that has gone away because the churches are losing parishioners because of these changing beliefs. And so now the churches are saying, now it's okay to be gay and have those relationships. My opinion does not matter. But when you look at the grand scheme of things, I think it's a very dangerous slope to influence churches to change their beliefs and rewrite the doctrines as a matter of convenience or popular opinion because they're losing money, because they no longer have followers. That's directly turning your back on your God, whichever God it is. So that's my concern. There's a level of hypocrisy with the social norms that are taking place outside of that. Politics is politics. I think that if we follow our democracy and vote a certain way, the people have voted, others did not vote. And I think we live with that law until the next round of elections. But the fact that we can overturn an election or a vote just because people's feelings are hurt, you know, regardless of what I believe, I think that's wrong. That's such a dangerous precedent.

[31:28] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now, the, like, back in the sixties, the churches were all against homosexuality. And this. And the example that you used was the homosexuality. There were homosexuals in church, and there were homosexual priests and just homosexual people. Just.

[31:58] DAN SWASSING: And sin occurs in every aspect.

[32:02] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Yeah, it looks to me like people are just being more open than they used to be. And I knew that there was homosexual priests slamming their fists on the pulpit and denouncing homosexuality in front of the parish. And I kind of think that we are in a little bit more of a real world than we were 50 years ago.

[32:55] DAN SWASSING: We are. I think that it's. There's a slight difference because, you know, you look at the twelve hundreds, homosexuality was acceptable, not judged. The religion still existed, and they considered it a sin, but it was up to them to decide to commit that sin and repent if they decided to. When you look at now, even in the sixties, you know, the judgment was not there, whereas now it is. You know, and I think that's the significant difference, is we were not allowed to or not allowed. But if you practiced homosexuality that was your decision to go against your faith, whether you hit it, whether it was open, whatever it was. But it's not my place to judge you. You know, I'm gonna follow the God that I decide to follow and follow the rules that I see that are in place. You know, if someone else decides to break those rules, I'm not telling them they're going to a certain place. That's up to their God to decide if they're gonna go up or down, if that makes sense, you know. So I think the judgment is a key factor, but the doctrine should never change, you know, unless someone says, God spoke to me and said, now it's okay to have this, you know, that's. So. I think that's the difficulty I have, is whether it's the sixties, twelve hundreds, or now, you know, that judgment is a key component. We should not judge anyone. You know, like I said, love is love, and you take that outside of the religion, and that's respect.

[34:35] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now, if we go back to the example of slavery, owning slaves is not a sin, and it's socially unacceptable, and it became socially unacceptable when slavery was abolished. And there's a lot of people who don't think it's a very nice thing. I don't think it's a very good thing. Homosexuality, it's kind of hard to dredge up whether it's a sin or not using the Bible. There's some places in the Bible that it kind of looks like maybe it's okay, and other places in the Bible that it looks like a sin, and places in the Bible that it says, some people are born this way and they shouldn't. And other places in the Bible that, you know, it's just love thy neighbor, whether they're, you know, doing whatever.

[35:54] DAN SWASSING: So homosexuality, I think first we have to define is if it's the act of sex or if it's the emotions behind it. Because if you look at the act of sex, like I said, the intent is for the procreation, and sex is a true sacrament of marriage. And so you tie those together, and that's where it strictly says a man and a woman for the purpose of procreating, so that you can produce followers of God. In a short sense, if you look at the emotions behind it, you know, homosexuality, I don't know if it would be considered gay, because my best friend since high school, I love him more than any woman I've ever known. Not in a sexual way, but just, he's my brother, and that does not make me a homosexual. But I am closer to him than anyone else I know. So, you know, it comes back down to, are we going to define homosexuality as an emotion or as an act? And if it's an act, then it ties directly back to most religions that there's a sacrament of marriage for the purpose of procreation for followers of God. And you simply cannot procreate if you're homosexual with, you know, the same sex partner. If it's emotion, then it ties back to, well, that's fine. Love each other, if that's what you do. But just keep in mind that that's the reason for. For this. And, you know, all the other components of the Bible directly tie into that emotion piece. Love thy neighbor. Be there, hold them, care for them. So I think we have a little bit of time, a few minutes. So are there any strong points that you want to make or just really, you know, express during these last few minutes?

[37:50] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: No, not really. This is my first time here, and I don't have any real strong pet pave. You're saying that you become more conservative. Are you a Trump?

[38:11] DAN SWASSING: That's a tough question, because I like the idea of Trump. I don't like the man himself. I think that he did a terrible service by the tweets and the lies about his personal life and finances and whatnot. But the fact that a business person was able to come in and shake the system and expose its fallacies and errors, I think was great. And I think that the fact that he took us back to the fundamentals of what America is, you know, personalities aside, he came back in and said, we're going to be self sufficient. We're going to make things in house. We're going to go back to the basics of law. And I believe we would have been on the right track had he not exposed his personality. If we had a professional go in with the same message Trump delivered, I think that person would have served another four years. So that's. I don't want to say I'm a Trump supporter, but I like the idea of someone like Trump.

[39:18] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Yeah, I see what you mean now. I was kind of behind Ross Perot.

[39:23] DAN SWASSING: I like Ross Perot. Yeah.

[39:25] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: And I was hoping that. I was hoping that Trump or Ross Perot would be able to balance books.

[39:38] DAN SWASSING: You know, Ross pro had a very good chance until he had his scandal. His daughter got kidnapped or something, or.

[39:45] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: I think he was cheating on his taxes as well, and they caught up with him.

[39:48] DAN SWASSING: As far as that goes, that's probably a fair statement.

[39:53] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: And I like the idea of having a businessman, a president, who can keep everything in balance as far as the spending and the making money. And that, that was a real good point that I think you made about you liking, liking that. Now. As far as the fundamentals, I just think, I think we're going in a good direction as far as the, I think that people are becoming, are becoming real as far as who they are when it comes to the homosexual world or whatever. I think that any sex related is going to spread diseases, and we've seen that happen with the rise of AIDS and with other diseases that are spread homosexually and hepatitis and things like this. And the values of the fifties and sixties were real strange values. I mean, they were throwing black people off of bridges in Alabama or wherever it was, and they were going to church and getting down on their knees and praying and this and that. You know, we have a different society now, and I really do think we've moved in a good direction. And when Ross pro says make America, Trump, when Trump says make America great again, he's living in a nostalgic world. That is not true. When Washington, this period of time that Trump would like to go back to.

[42:22] DAN SWASSING: Well, I think great is a personal perspective, because I remember when I thought America was great. It's probably not the same time he thought, you know, but what does great mean to you? It could be the economics. It could be being a world power. It could be minimal hunger. You know, America has gone through peaks of, of greatness in isolated areas. And I think that's the beauty behind that message, is it's not make America great again like it was in the sixties, seventies, eighties, whatever. It's make America great again for you. When was it great for you? Because I remember in the eighties, I was ignorant to a lot of things because I was young, I was ten or so. But I remember just being enamored by the way Reagan communicated. I remember having food on the table, you know, and we were poor. My mom had two jobs supporting me, single parent. But I remember being able to survive with minimal assistance from the government. You know, I know inflation is a big thing. You know, gas was $0.89, you know, thinking back to those days. And so what's great to me is not the same as what's great to someone else. Great to someone else could be the pop culture of the nineties. Oh, you know, let's make it great again for me. For you.

[43:44] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now, the Make America great again. The resources are drying up that the oil that was abundant back in the eighties, it's still there. It's not still there.

[44:10] DAN SWASSING: The oil in America hasn't been touched in decades. When we were drilling the Keystone pipeline, it was drilled with the intent that there was enough to use. They're not reserves. There's actually more in reserve than there has ever been. We're partnering with our partners in the Middle east and even Russia to this day, still just now halting our access to their resources and supplies because of the thing in Ukraine. The Keystone pipeline would not have been invested in if it was going to ruin our ecology. You know, we don't know all of the facts. We just know what we're being told on both sides.

[44:51] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: And I'm not an expert about oil, but they were drilling and hitting geshers and they were getting a high grade crude all over the place. And now they are fracking it out of stone, which requires a lot of energy. The amount of carbon that has gone into the atmosphere is we just can't keep on using it. Our environment is suffering.

[45:32] DAN SWASSING: So what's more important to you, the air or the land? The reason I ask is because when you recycle, it produces more chemicals into the air than any emissions that are going by any Chevy truck. You have to burn that down in order to break it down to its components, to reshape it, reform it, reconstitute it. So you're putting that black smoke into that air, those chemicals directly into the ozone. You put things into the landfill, which I agree that it's bad. It's ruining the land. It takes 70 years, 200 years, depending on the product, to decompose and go into the land. But what's more important on that, I'm.

[46:11] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Going to Google that, because this is actually the first time that I've heard this. I believe that we are all the low hanging food is gone, that our resources are drying up. We've got more people on the planet earth than ever before.

[46:35] DAN SWASSING: I agree with that.

[46:37] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Our environment is dying, and we are in for global warming situation that is not going to be, um.

[46:59] DAN SWASSING: Reversed.

[47:00] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Reversed. Yeah, something will be reversed. Yeah. And in order to produce food, which everybody likes to have, you have to have a stable environment.

[47:10] DAN SWASSING: Yeah.

[47:11] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Now I'd love to make America great again. Clean up all the environment. They clean the environment, put oil back in the land, and go back to Wally Cleaver.

[47:27] DAN SWASSING: I would love that. All right, guys, I got one last question for you both. What's something that you will take with you from this experience? I think just a reminder that everybody has their own experiences. And so hearing your experiences in your profession and your experience with law enforcement, and not to just look at the issues themselves and judge people on their opinions, but accept them through their experiences. There's a reason you believe the way that you believe and the things that you feel based on your experiences. So regardless of my opinion, they are true to you, and I have to respect that. So it's important to remember that and keep that in mind.

[48:22] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Well, thank you, Curtis. That is. That's very good. I can't think of anything.

[48:38] DAN SWASSING: All right, guys, if y'all just thank one another in the recording. Thank you.

[48:42] CURTIS BUSTAMANTE: Thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation.