Danelle [No Name Given] and Ann Hawley

[00:02] ANN HAWLEY: My name is Ann Hawley I'm 45 years old. The date is July 13, 2022. I'm in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth calling from Wichita, Kansas, and I'm here with Danelle [No Name Given] who is my one small step partner.

[00:19] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: My name is Danelle [No Name Given] I am 43 years old. The date is July 13th, 2022. I'm in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth calling from Wichita, Kansas, and I'm here with Ann, who is my one small step partner.

[00:40] ANN HAWLEY: Ann, I'm going to paste Danelle's bio into the chat.

[00:43] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: If you can just read that for me verbatim as if you were done.

[00:48] ANN HAWLEY: I'm a native Wichita born and raised. I'm very proud to be from Wichita and in particular to be part of the Catholic Diocese of Wichita. I attended Wichita Catholic schools from K through 12 and then attended Newman University. I have nine children, ages 4 to 23. Issues that are important to me are social justice issues, especially immigration, preferential option for the poor, and racial equality.

[01:14] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Fantastic.

[01:15] ANN HAWLEY: Thank you.

[01:16] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: And Danelle [No Name Given] I'm pasting Ann's bio now. My name is Ann Hawley I'm from Augusta, and although I'm from here, I don't feel as if I belong here for quite some time. Sure, I love my family and friends, but I don't fit. I started traveling overseas in college and that gave me the travel bug and opened my mind to so many things I had never considered. I feel like people here could care less about what others think, whether it be their neighbor or someone halfway across the world. That's so discouraging and sad to me.

[01:53] ANN HAWLEY: Perfect.

[01:53] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Thank you both for doing that. And now kind of building on these initial bios a little bit, please feel free to take a few minutes apiece to share your story. And I know that can be kind of a daunting task, but an example of how this might look. Feel free to maybe start with maybe your earliest memory where you started to.

[02:15] ANN HAWLEY: Become aware of politics or social issues.

[02:18] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: And walk us through some of those important experiences in your life that inform your perspective. And feel free to take as long as you need to. Kind of think about it before you start sharing. And I'll let you go first since.

[02:41] ANN HAWLEY: Sure. So in reading through my bio, I'm like, oh, I didn't mean to be so negative. So I'm sorry if I come across as that. So I'm really. I'm really not. But I guess in doing the one small step that's kind of what I was thinking of is like, what makes us unique or different to the space we are in. So for me, I, you know, small town girl and born and raised here, and really my parents brought me home to the same house that I am now currently living in, which is a little crazy. So I think really my time when I kind of started to awaken was in college. And so I had a professor who was very pro study abroad. And, you know, in high school I'd been studying French and I loved it and, you know, but I wasn't going to have time because I had music and I had all of these other things going on and my academics, so I wasn't going to continue with my French. And she really encouraged me to go ahead and do that. And so I said, okay, sure. And I applied for some scholarships that were abroad. And then that's kind of how things really opened up. And so I went to Morocco between my, let's see, I guess it was my sophomore and junior years of college, and it was so vastly different from anything I'd known or experienced. I really had no kind of concept of what I would be walking into. And so I was very open to that experience, which I think served me well because it was, you know, something unexpected. And I think if I would have gone in, like, closed off, it would have been a really, really challenging time. And from there I went to France. And so what's kind of interesting is like, you know, being in a Muslim culture, everything was. I was pretty protected, honestly. And then I went to France and I was with, you know, other students actually from the University of Kansas. And it was much more, you know, oh, going out, partying, doing all this type of thing, which I had not been accustomed to. So it was interesting, like seeing two very different cultures. And you would say France is more similar to our own in America. However, in terms of my cultural habits, I would say I was more similar to my Moroccan family. So that was just kind of interesting. So that really, you know, opened my. My mind to a lot of things. Getting to meet so many diverse people and, you know, just to look at the poverty that's in the world and how privileged that we really are and how we often take things for granted. And so that's been really important to me. And so I've continued traveling and then I came back, actually about, wow, six years ago now seems. It seems crazy a lot. And so I returned here to home, to Kansas. But it's, it's, you know, home is. I always thought home is home, and it is, but you change and maybe you change and. And and it doesn't. So kind of a square fitting into a circle. It doesn't quite fit, but still like loving and wanting to be a part of everyone who is here. So I hope that gives you some insight into me.

[06:43] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: So you, you left during college and you've been traveling around for like 20 years now.

[06:51] ANN HAWLEY: Well, back and forth. Like I came back, I did, I did my graduate and in New York City and then I worked in D.C. and then I worked in Jerusalem. So just, you know, I haven't been home. Home in Kansas. So yeah, back and forth between overseas and, and the U.S. but East coast, so.

[07:15] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Wow. So in like all of those experiences, were there any like long time connections that you've stayed with that have just kind of always with you or has it always kind of been kind of the transitory or.

[07:33] ANN HAWLEY: No, definitely. So I was in Morocco for six years and so I still maintain relationships there. And you know, when I was first there I lived with the host family and you know, I don't see them as often as I would like but I'm still like consider them family. And they're always asking when are you coming? And I'm like, oh, if America gave us adequate vacation time then I would come. But that, that type of thing. So yeah, I have established really good friendships and I, I was a Fulbright student when I went to Morocco at first. And so that cohort of Fulbrighters I was with, we have stayed, some of us have stayed in very close touch and I still consider them really good friends. So a lot of my friends I feel like are not, I mean they're in Kansas, but, but the ones I want to, hey, let's grab coffee or let's do this or something that's very, I would do very easily overseas. Doesn't quite happen as easily here just because of constraints of family and time that people have on them here. So yeah.

[08:44] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: So then what kind of like career and things did you do while you traveled?

[08:53] ANN HAWLEY: So international education. So I got into the education field and girls education specifically. Yeah, I want to hear about you.

[09:02] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Okay. Okay. So let's see. I was born in Wichita and I never really left. I got married right out of high school, went to college and just started a family right away. And, and so my, my life has been my, my family and I've been teaching for 20, 22 years now and I. So my family has just kind of been my life and having my kids grow up and start to, you know, become adults. And one of my daughter's just graduated from Emporia with her education degree and so helping her and become a teacher. And then I have another one in college right now and then some in high school and so just. Yeah, I didn't really do the whole, I guess, traditional college thing because I was being a mom and trying to raised littles during my, during college, but I don't know, I guess didn't really travel a lot. But my family, my oldest brother kind of, you know, moved out and then I have a sister who, her husband was in the air Force and they traveled a lot. And so I've been kind of vicariously living through their experiences and their travels and hearing about all of those. But yeah, I don't, I don't know, I just. My family's always just kind of been my life and in my career too, just being a teacher. I love teaching and I love being there with kids and helping kids. So that's, that's kind of. I don't know, that's kind of me in a really small nutshell. And so. Yeah.

[11:06] ANN HAWLEY: What grades do you teach or what subjects?

[11:09] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Well, so right now I do kindergarten through fifth grade and I do reading and math interventions. So title one. So I pull kids and we do extra help in reading and in math. And it's. I've been doing it for four years now in that role and it's just amazing. It's. It's wonderful. I get to just kind of specialize what I teach for the kids. There's all small groups and they're just, they're great kids and I absolutely love it. It's a. And the school I teach at, it's. It's a Catholic school, but I'm employed through the public district, so I have like all of the support and all of the help from the public district, But I teach in a Catholic school and it's one of the lower income Catholic schools here in Witchita, which I absolutely love. I started teaching at a low income, high ESL population when I first started teaching, and I taught in that school for 14 years. Absolutely loved it. Really kind of helped me see beyond my experiences because growing up, you know, very, very similar background for all of my neighbors and all of my classmates. And then when I started teaching, it's like, oh, you know, there's all these other cultures and I just, I loved that diversity and I love teaching in that diverse environment and, and so I just feel more at home in that kind of an environment. And that's what I wanted for my own kids too. So when we were looking at what schools to Send our kids to. I intentionally didn't send them to our neighborhood school because I didn't want their class picture to be a bunch of kids that all look like them. I wanted them to know that there are other backgrounds, other cultures, but beyond what people look like, there's enough similarities and there's. There's a common bond between everybody. And so I wanted them to be able to have that in. In their experience. And like my. I. I have one daughter who when her best friends in elementary school. One of them was born in Vietnam, one of them was born in Mexico, and one of them was born in Ukraine. And I think that's just. Has helped form her and all my other kids, you know, to really see beyond themselves and to know about this world, even if they never get to experience it firsthand, but to have that as part of their self.

[14:19] ANN HAWLEY: That's awesome.

[14:21] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. So that I. So I teach. I teach at, you know, a small school, which I love, and I was. I did the principal thing for a few years, and I decided that was not for me. I'm much better equipped to be in the classroom. I just miss being with the kids. So, yeah, I miss teaching. I missed that. So I went back and I love it so much. Is like, the best thing ever. You said you're in a preschool right now?

[14:57] ANN HAWLEY: Yeah, I actually work for a preschool provider in Wichita that has a lot of the Head Start schools or preschool sites. So, yeah, I'm an education manager for that. And so I go around to our different sites and see how the teachers are doing and what's going on with that. So we're both in the education field, so.

[15:25] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, no, that's. That was really cool when you said that you're at a preschool. It's like, okay, yeah.

[15:32] ANN HAWLEY: Yeah. I mean, that's traditionally not what I've done. So, I mean, with my work and everything, it was really been focused overseas and more on policy and, you know, like, working with ministries of national education and, you know, NGOs to say, okay, what does this community need? What does this country need? How can we help them to achieve this? So whether it's, you know, more equity in terms of gender and what girls get in comparison to boys, or making sure that boys are attaining the same level of education as the girls. This type of thing, it really depended on the priorities of the places I was in, what we then focused on. So this is a very big switch for me, international to domestic. But I'm learning a lot about our U.S. system. And, yeah, so it's Been interesting.

[16:36] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Well, in an early childhood and in preschool, it's really so interesting because you have these kids that have not had a school background and they haven't been kind of, I don't know, pigeonholed us into. This is their role, this is your track. So I'm curious, is that something that you see in other cultures, other school systems, or how would you compare, like the American view of education versus other countries views of education?

[17:18] ANN HAWLEY: That's a good question. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, when kids are that small, like it's, it's open and everyone is just interested in the children playing and learning and that's the emphasis we would really put on in my work overseas. Because the approaches are different. Like it's more kind of rote learning and trying to get those kind of perspectives changed. So it's more student centered versus, like, you know, teacher centered. And so those are kind of some of those practices that we look at. But I think, you know, when it comes down to it, all parents want their children to do well and to perform well and to, you know, be, you know, well, I don't know, what's the word? Just to be good human beings. You know what I mean? So I feel like as a common principle of humanity is like they really want the success of their children and they want them to do as well as possible. And so of course there are various constraints to that and how that actually then takes place due to, you know, cost of school or, you know, where they live, these type of things. But I think we find that too for the US So really similar kind of constraints.

[18:48] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: What I find challenging is so many people's definitions of well is. Are different. So wanting your children to do well for some people means to be more affluent, to have more money or to have more influence and power or to be a better person and to be more caring and philanthropists, philanthropic. So you have that, you know, everybody wants good for their children. Everybody wants good things. And once they're wants the future to be better than what we have, but everybody's vision is just not the same. So, you know, we have a lot of people who come in who it's like their first experience with American schools because they went to schools in Mexico and then their children are going to school here and America. And so they, they want their children to be better off than they were. But it doesn't necessarily equate to being more, more caring about others. You know, it's more like, how do I make it better for me? Rather than how do I make it better for everybody else. So. And I think that's one of the things too that we try to integrate with having our faith taught in the schooling is trying to temper that drive of being self motivated and self centered to being others centered. And how do we help children grow to be a well rounded individual that grows to their own potential, but also grows to potential of how do we make the world a better place and how do we care for those who don't have as much as we do? Because even if we don't have everything, we have a lot more than other people have. When my first school I taught at, and the one I teach at now is very, very poor and they are parish funded. So it's the people of the, of the church, of the parish that help fund the schools. And so consequently the schools aren't as well funded. And we would always compare, you know, look at what we have versus more affluent schools. And you know, they, they have this technology and we don't or they have this and we don't. And everybody has. It's not the haves and the have nots, it's just the haves and the have mores. And if we look at what we have and what we can do with what we have and help, you know, and consequently help our kids not see what's to be envied, but what's to be grateful for, I think that we could make things better. So. Yeah, I'm curious too. You know, you, you had mentioned rote learning being so, you know, an emphasis in other countries. And you hear all these studies of, you know, kids in, you know, other countries are scoring so much higher on standardized tests than our kids are. And you, you wonder how, how those high test scores don't always match up with best practices for education. And you kind of see people wanting to change American standards and change American education to be more like that. Because when I started teaching first grade 22 years ago, the expectations of the kids are so, so much different than they are now. And so you kind of have that conflict between this is best educational philosophy, you know, development of not just, not just rote memorization, but of understanding and empathy and character development. So how do we, how do we match what we know in education with the pressures to achieve, especially in this global environment where we're not just competing against, you know, other school systems within America, but we're competing against school systems that are, have different philosophies?

[23:51] ANN HAWLEY: Yeah, that's a huge question. I mean, I think it's a really Good one. But I mean, I think we have to have balance, you know, and that's so hard to achieve because we're always swayed one towards one or the other and to get that fine line is really almost impossible, you know. So I think that lots of countries, other countries do it, do do it better than the U.S. you know, I think a lot of European countries, like if you look at Finland and Norway's, those scores and everything they're achieving and they seem to have less control over their kids than even we do, you know what I mean, in terms of open opinions and being student led and this type of thing and philosophy. So obviously they're doing something that's working, that I'm sure we could learn from. But they also have, you know, universal education and health and all of these things which we don't have. And I feel like that's a true benefit, you know, to them. And those are things that I really wish that the US had just because I think it would make things more fair. And I get that. What you were saying, I kind of want to go back to what you were saying about, you know, children and what parents want for their kids. And I believe in, you know, the ladder that you were talking about. Like what does well mean? It means, you know, being a good person, having the well being of everyone around you at heart and really going towards that. But of course that's not everyone and ideally that's how it would be. But also in terms of looking at the parish or how different schools are in terms of their funding, this is also the problem and the constraint then we need to have. My desire would be for those affluent schools and those wealthy families to understand, oh well, this is how I can give back and I can contribute by then funding this underserved school or contributing or participating or have my having my children go and tutor there and having some kind of more interaction between those different kind of economic levels which I don't think happens in, in the US or frankly in the many places. It's not just the U.S. so I think that somehow there is like a very. I see it more as an American and maybe, maybe that's wrong, but I feel like Americans typically, this is a broad statement, but are pretty self involved, you know, like pretty concerned about me and my family and what's good for them and what's going on in my immediate neighborhood and my immediate school and how is this going to impact it. And that's understandable. It's just my wish is to enlarge that view and that perspective even more to be more encompassing to say, like, hey, how can, like, we actually do something here? Or it's not that they're not working hard or they don't deserve it. It's that they've. It's. It's like they've been a lot of different cards in life. And. And that's just how it is. And like, let's. Let's help the, the people out who were dealt a different hand or a more difficult hand is. Is, I guess, what I would. What I would hope for and aspire to, you know, for my fellow citizens.

[28:05] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. Because I think, like you said, it's just natural for us to try and take care of our inner circle first, you know, and then kind of move it out there. But sometimes we can get so involved in trying to make sure that that inner circle is taken care of that we do kind of neglect to see outside of ourselves. And I think that's why being part of something bigger is always important. And it's good to what. Whatever it is that makes you part of that. Something bigger helps you see that it's not just you and your, you know, your life, but there are lots of other things out there. And so I. I think that's why it's important to be involved and to see other things and to try and put yourself out there and bigger things, too. Definitely. Yeah.

[29:01] ANN HAWLEY: And I mean, it sounds like your faith is very important to you, and I would say my faith is very important to me as well. So, you know, I was raised, you know, in the Christian church, and I. My faith is, you know, really critical about how I live my life. But I've also been, you know, disillusioned also with the. I guess I should say the global church and reaction to how they deal with, like, injustice and poverty and some of these things where, you know, I still see with, you know, fellow, you know, Christians who I love dearly, who are still, like, very, like you said, concerned with that. That kind of myopic thing. And, and regardless of if I do this or that, oh, that's great, but that's for you. Or it doesn't seem to even cross their mind that this might be something they would be interested in, you know, so I don't know how. I mean, it's not my job to change that. I mean, I can just do what I can do and then say, like, hey, but, like, I would love to see that, like, our. The talk of the church, those, the actions meet that talk. And that's what I often See a discrepancy. And so that's why, like, how I live my life, I'm really cognizant of, like, okay, is what I'm saying, actually, is how I'm acting, actually meeting what I'm saying, saying, you know, so, you know, I work with refugees. That's something that's really important to me. I volunteer in that community. And. But I can see too, like, the longer being here, it's like, oh, you do get kind of, like, involved in your own, you know, your work and everything that that takes. And making time for that becomes increasingly harder, but it's still really important to do because those individuals and communities really struggle and need those advocates that are like us to reach out to them and work with them.

[31:30] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: And I think that's one of the great things about education, because it is something that you can do that directly impacts an individual, a family, and then not just for a little bit. It's not like giving assistance for, you know, a month or a year even. You know, what. What you instill and what you teach carries on for a lifetime. And by making, you know, by helping a child learn, you are giving them a chance to be, you know, better and to make their future better and to then touch other people and to make their lives better. And so just like, the butterfly effect of education is just so humbling when you think about, you know, the. The hundreds and thousands of, you know, children that we've helped and how many lives have they touched and how many things and how much good has come of the world because of that. And especially with education equality, trying to make sure that that's something that you get a quality education, no matter who you are, what your background, what your home life is like, how much money your family makes, you deserve a quality education. And it's just one of those basic rights and one of those basic things that everybody should have. And I think that's one of the things that really makes me proud to be in education and really helps drive me to be a better teacher and to do the best for my kids, because it's. It's like a moral calling, you know, to me to really make sure that these kids are gonna be adjusted and, you know, be able to be resilient, but also be able to be caring and to see, you know, what. What they are capable of and to believe in them and to really give them hope and to hopefully, you know, have them lead a good life and to be, you know, happy and to create happiness in the world. So kind of cheesy but you know, it's what, it's what we're here for.

[34:18] ANN HAWLEY: Right, right. It's interesting that you bring that up. So like when I came back from Morocco, I then was trying to decide where to go to grad school and so I was, I visited Columbia University and that's where I did my education. And I was with a friend and I was trying to really decide if I should go into the school of, you know, basically of International Public Affairs, SEPA or Teachers College. And so Emilio and I were, you know, he's showing me around the campus and then we ran into an advisor of friend he knew and we were in the SEPA building and he worked, he was a professor at Teachers College. So he was like, Ann, how do you see, how do you want to help the world? Do you see education or economics being the most helpful or influential tool to change people's lives? And I was like, whoa, that's such a huge big question. You know. And so I had to think about that and I was like, you know, ultimately I really want, and I really think that people's lives can be changed through education and want that because that has like less constraints. You know, you can always learn more even if you're, you're self propelled to learn more versus economics, which of course money is always going to be important, there's no doubt. But with education that is such a huge avenue to then reach your other goals and those other things that you need in life. So that's how I really made my decision as to, okay, where do I go? How do I see, how do I want to frame, you know, my future and how I see people improving their lives. And it was through education. So yeah, that advisor is still like, I hold him very dear to me because he became my advisor and we did some really great work like on identity in youth in New York City. But yeah, just how education is so critical. I totally agree.

[36:54] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: I actually have a follow up question if it's okay. Sorry, I am here surprise. You know, just hearing you two talk.

[37:06] ANN HAWLEY: About your work with students and the.

[37:10] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Values that you really try to share with them. You know, I think about how teachers, you know, are often the most present adult in some of their lives. Like sometimes they're interacting with their students more than their parents are.

[37:25] ANN HAWLEY: Right.

[37:26] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: And you know, so aware of the issues in their students lives, providing them kind of support and counseling and your pedagogies and the way you structure your classrooms, you know, beyond the content, the social learning that you facilitate is all so important. So my big question is, in your opinion, like, what do. What do your students need to become? Or how do you prepare your students to enter American society? Like, what do they need right now in order to be able to handle, I don't know, the state of our world, and that's a big question. But it can be a granular and low level, as you would like. Maybe it's cooking skills. I don't know. I think it's really. I think it's really important for kids to have an. To always be striving for the truth, to not so much rely on opinions and feelings as what is the truth? And how do we find that truth? And when somebody sees something differently than we do, where is that common truth? Because there is a concrete truth out there, and not everything is relative. And so how do we cling to that truth and help? Always strive to learn more and just to continuously expand what we know. To always be searching, to never stop learning is always really important because there is so much in the world. I mean, just, you know, think about the pictures we just got back from the telescope. You know, our universe is so huge, and for us to feel like we can even know everything is ridiculous. And so to always be striving for, to learn more and to learn the truth and to help see what that commonality is between everybody, I think is really important.

[39:48] ANN HAWLEY: Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think. I mean, that's a really big question, Cole. So what do Americans need to have and do their education well here to prepare them? I would say, you know, really just keeping that curiosity alive and trying to. Wanting to, like, you know, if they can hold on to that, that kind of curiosity and questioning to see, like, what's different in the world or why is something working like it is, and to really seek to be a seeker, I think that's really important. And for them to really understand that it's important to get to know people on an individual personal basis versus looping everyone into big groups. Because it's not really until we do that that we really get to know another person. And that could really surprise us. I mean, just like this whole, you know, one small step is doing, it's the whole point of that. So. So I just would say that to remain open to people who are different from you and to experiencing what that is without having a lot of prejudgments built up to really to try to do that and to do that on your own as an individual person versus, like, oh, what my parents think and believe or what my teacher thinks and believes or what, you know, my best friend. Because we all can be different and be okay and we can have like civil conversations and productive conversations with one another, even if we don't see eye to eye or disagree. And I think that this generation, like that worries me with, you know, I say thank God I, you know, Facebook and all of this nonsense came out like later when I was not a child because I think that's very influential and that's very hard. So to kind of get away from that and really go towards those one on one and those personal connections is what I would like to say to kids and to their parents.

[42:32] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, I like your point about how when you're closed off, you stop growing. And so once you, you have cemented something in your mind as this is the only way, this is a. Then you, you stop growing. And that's really kind of sad to think about how many people have put a faceless mask on a group because it's easier, it's easier to not agree with something that's a faceless mass versus a person. And to get to know somebody and to understand their background and their experiences and then because yeah, that's how you get to connect and to make more connections rather than disconnections.

[43:20] ANN HAWLEY: And I think like being overseas, like I always had, like when I was then working, I had some kind of strikes against me. I was, when that was happening, I was young, one strike, I was a woman, another strike because I was working in Arab country and then I had another strike. I'm American. Those are three strikes against me from the bat, you know, to have to face. And so I think making sure that we also, that, I mean, that really took me aback because no one's ever questioned my credentials or how I am. You know, in America, thankfully we are accepted for who we say we are and professional and all of that. But that's not the case in other countries per se. You really have to prove yourself first. And so that was, that was really eye opening for me. And I, I don't think it's a good thing, you know, but it was something that was a reality then that I dealt with. And I think then by those colleagues and those people getting to the know me as a person maybe or hopefully their big, you know, meta idea of what an American is or what a girl working is or a young person is doing these things, you know, changed and transformed and. But that's really because it was a personal connection. And I know too, like my beliefs have also were also Transformed about, you know, having this. This is, you know, people are this way or, you know, not concerned with women's rights or something like that. It's like, no, that's not the case at all. It's, you know, very much more complex than that. But it's getting to know people on an individual basis. And you're like, ah, okay, you know, where. Whereas, you know, that doesn't happen for everyone. And I guess I would want people to be more accepting of, like, oh, if I do meet that neighbor who's different, cool. I can have a conversation with them and be open to that and see what they're like.

[45:44] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, these are great answers and I really appreciate that. It sounds like you two have a.

[45:49] ANN HAWLEY: Lot of kind of similarities in your.

[45:51] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Worldview and perspective and the values you bring to the classroom, despite having very different experiences in terms of where you were. I just want to let you know, we are at 46 minutes, and we aim for these to be roughly 50 minutes. So if you have any questions that you wanted to be sure to ask or anything you wanted to talk about before we stop recording, this is definitely the time to do that. And I'll finish up my questions here. So. I don't know. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I'm sure there is. I'll probably think of it once we hang up.

[46:39] ANN HAWLEY: You know, I was just curious and this is. This is a big question, so you don't have to answer it if it's too, I don't know, uncomfortable. But I mean, I. In your bio, it says you have nine children. So can you tell me just like, how you came to decide, like, on that number of kids or did you plan that? Not plan it, or because of your faith or.

[47:06] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Well, okay, so were any of them planned? No, but they were all wonderful surprises and blessings and they were all given to us at different times of our life. And, you know, it. Sometimes you. It takes a while to understand what a huge blessing they are. So I have my first when I was 18, right out of high school, and all the challenges that that brought. And then we just. I had three kids in. While I was in college and. But yet still finished. Finished college and started teaching. And so it was never really a plan, I guess, to have that many kids. You know, we were always open to having kids and. But I don't know. Yeah, they. They are wonderful. And I. All of my children are different and unique and they have helped me grow in my worldview as well too, you know, Just having different abilities. I mean, I have. One of my daughters is. Well, I have two with autism spectrum disorder. And one of them is not. I mean, she's verbal, but she's. She's pretty low functioning. And so I have her. And then I have a daughter that was the salutatorian of her high school class who's pre med. And so it's just, it's interesting, it's given me a good perspective to see how broad a family can be and how you can have all of these children that grew up in the same household with the. The same parents and have turned out so differently. And so I didn't know we didn't plan on having nine, but I love every single one of them and I'm. I'm happy that we have it. And as it's grown too, I think it's been good for our kids to have that support with. Within themselves too. Because to see now my girls, so I have seven girls and then two boys. So my girls are all the older ones and they're the ones that are starting to kind of become adults. And it's been really great to see them bond with each other. And I don't know what's going on in the next room. I don't know if you could hear that there, but they're getting crazy in there. So it's been great to see them form those friendships and to see them have that stability of family. And so my parents were both from big families and my mom, her brothers and sisters are all really close and they have a sign in their house and that she and her brothers and sisters gave to each other after my grandparents died. And it says the greatest gift that our parents ever gave us was each other. And it's kind of helped me think, you know, I, I need to help my kids see that they are a gift to each other and how they can be each other's support. Because family is one of those things that it just doesn't go away. And, you know, you can disagree with your family, you can have people that you haven't talked to in forever, but when push comes to shove, your family and you're there for each other. And so I really am. Despite its challenges and despite all of the frustrations and difficulties and, you know, things that you don't get to do because you have a big family, I'm happy we have a big family. So it's kind of. Yeah, awesome.

[51:17] ANN HAWLEY: Thanks. Thanks for answering that.

[51:19] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, I know. No problem. Thank you for asking because, yeah, a lot of People are like, wow, you have nine kids. That just must be awful. And there's, you know, there are some. Some stereotypes that go with that too. And. Yeah, so it's good to be able to share that. No, it's not just. I didn't homeschool. Everybody asked me, did you homeschool? No, did not homeschool my kids. And yeah. So no. We have the big van, the Big 12 passenger van. Yeah. And. But it's good. And so far, my kids have chosen to live here close. So, like, had one that went to Emporia for school. I have one that's up in Kansas City for school. So nobody's going, like, way far away. And I know eventually they probably somebody's going to move away. It's just inevitable. But I hope that they always will come back home and feel happy and safe. And even though we don't always agree on everything, I want them to know that we love them and that they should love each other and hopefully share that love.

[52:44] ANN HAWLEY: Well, that's really neat. Yeah. Cool. Thank you for sharing that.

[52:48] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: Thanks. Yeah, I'm going to just hop in here. We're at about 53, so just take a few moments. Any closing thoughts you have and anything you'd like to share with one another. Before I stop the recording, I just want to thank you for giving your time today and for being here and meeting with me and talking and sharing your story. That's. That's incredible to hear some. To hear your story and to be able to have this time. So thank you for that gift of your time today. Thank you.

[53:24] ANN HAWLEY: Yeah, you're welcome. And, yeah, you as well. And I just wanted to say too, you know, I think sometimes, you know, people think like, oh, well, you've. You've traveled and you've done all of this, and I have, and that's awesome, and I love that. But also, like, you have a family and a beautiful family, you know, and I am single, and so that allows me to do a lot of the things I've done. But it's not for, like, a lack of, you know, not wanting to have a family. Like, that desire is still there, but it's just kind of how, again, kind of the cards were dealt and how we play them. So, yeah, I feel that, like, you know, everyone, how their lives turn out, it's. It's really kind of a manifestation of. Of God and, you know, yourself. So, yeah, I just wanted to thank you for sharing. Yeah. Your story with me. So thank you.

[54:30] DANELLE [NO NAME GIVEN]: I. Yeah, thank you both. I also love the kids in the background. It makes the audio recording very authentic. Very authentic. Those are my two boys. Yeah, they're a little louder. So what I'm going to do here is I'm going to just allow for 10 seconds of background noise on the track and then I'll stop the recording.

[54:52] ANN HAWLEY: And we'll talk through next steps. It.